Mr Lansdown Just Stick With It!

[REDOXO]

I know you and Mrs L do pop in here fairly regularly. I also note another thread that starts in a frustrated manner. 
 

Yes we are a disappointed bunch right now. Things are not going well on the field in several areas, we are a bit/a lot shot shy the midfield can not retain possession and the forwards have nothing to work with and are just hoping for defensive mistakes

Not great.
 

However The manager is doing what he can with what he has been given and I suspect we are not far away from a couple of new faces from the academy starting soon 
 

Just keep with the plan. Pearson is the right bloke for this job at a club where Pep would struggle right now. Its going to be a fight over the next few months and hopefully we can gather a 16 that are up for it from within and perhaps spend a little cash when allowed. 

[And Its Smith]

10 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I know you and Mrs L do pop in here fairly regularly. I also note another thread that starts in a frustrated manner. 
 

Yes we are a disappointed bunch right now. Things are not going well on the field in several areas, we are a bit/a lot shot shy the midfield can not retain possession and the forwards have nothing to work with and are just hoping for defensive mistakes

Not great.
 

However The manager is doing what he can with what he has been given and I suspect we are not far away from a couple of new faces from the academy starting soon 
 

Just keep with the plan. Pearson is the right bloke for this job at a club where Pep would struggle right now. Its going to be a fight over the next few months and hopefully we can gather a 16 that are up for it from within and perhaps spend a little cash when allowed. 

We have no idea if Pearson is the right person for the job. So far his team are getting worse the longer he works with them. 

[Slippin cider]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We have no idea if Pearson is the right person for the job. So far his team are getting worse the longer he works with them. 

Exactly this, Relegation battle looms I fear …

[Galley is our king]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I know you and Mrs L do pop in here fairly regularly. I also note another thread that starts in a frustrated manner. 
 

Yes we are a disappointed bunch right now. Things are not going well on the field in several areas, we are a bit/a lot shot shy the midfield can not retain possession and the forwards have nothing to work with and are just hoping for defensive mistakes

Not great.
 

However The manager is doing what he can with what he has been given and I suspect we are not far away from a couple of new faces from the academy starting soon 
 

Just keep with the plan. Pearson is the right bloke for this job at a club where Pep would struggle right now. Its going to be a fight over the next few months and hopefully we can gather a 16 that are up for it from within and perhaps spend a little cash when allowed. 

This, all day long...

[And Its Smith]

21 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

Exactly this, Relegation battle looms I fear …

Or not. Only 6 points off the play offs!!

[054123]

29 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We have no idea if Pearson is the right person for the job. So far his team are getting worse the longer he works with them. 

 

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Or not. Only 6 points off the play offs!!

All bases covered

[tin]

34 minutes ago, Slippin cider said:

Exactly this, Relegation battle looms I fear …

A relegation battle loomed before a ball was even kicked in anger for me, because I’m of the opinion a lot of players weren’t up to it and still aren’t.

It all boils down to individual expectations and this current crop in the current financial climate has done nothing over the last 18 months and more to suggest 2021/22 will be anything else than a bottom-eight struggle. 

[steviestevieneville]

57 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I know you and Mrs L do pop in here fairly regularly. I also note another thread that starts in a frustrated manner. 
 

Yes we are a disappointed bunch right now. Things are not going well on the field in several areas, we are a bit/a lot shot shy the midfield can not retain possession and the forwards have nothing to work with and are just hoping for defensive mistakes

Not great.
 

However The manager is doing what he can with what he has been given and I suspect we are not far away from a couple of new faces from the academy starting soon 
 

Just keep with the plan. Pearson is the right bloke for this job at a club where Pep would struggle right now. Its going to be a fight over the next few months and hopefully we can gather a 16 that are up for it from within and perhaps spend a little cash when allowed. 

So , are you making a rallying call to the man , whose ineptitude as a owner has put us in the mess we’re in ? A man who twice employed a bloke who completely ****** up our recruitment. Yes , not once but twice he’s employed him. A man who saw fit to not question some of the terrible illogical signings over the last 4 years . Not questioned any of it . 
Oh , sorry he built a couple of stands it’s all good , silly me.

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, tin said:

A relegation battle loomed before a ball was even kicked in anger for me, because I’m of the opinion a lot of players weren’t up to it and still aren’t.

It all boils down to individual expectations and this current crop in the current financial climate has done nothing over the last 18 months and more to suggest 2021/22 will be anything else than a bottom-eight struggle. 

Well said. Since Feb 2020, so coming on for two years, we have been going on a steep downward trajectory. You can't arrest a slide like that quickly. 

Pearson's two only "proper" signings (players actually in contract) were Tanner who was playing League 2 football at the end of August and Atkinson who was playing in the National League the season before last. 

If that doesn't show you where we are as a club at the moment, I don't know what will. 

[Galley is our king]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

So , are you making a rallying call to the man , whose ineptitude as a owner has put us in the mess we’re in ? A man who twice employed a bloke who completely ****** up our recruitment. Yes , not once but twice he’s employed him. A man who saw fit to not question some of the terrible illogical signings over the last 4 years . Not questioned any of it . 
Oh , sorry he built a couple of stands it’s all good , silly me.

Yes he is...

Where would we have been without him?

In my opinion 

League 1 at best.

No championship football.

No real improvements to the Gate, still hoping that when you take a piss at half time in the East end you may be able to stand in the shallow end.

Therefore, no extra revenue coming in.

Worst case we could be another Bury. Going bust now due to covid.

Best case? We would have a local derby and we could watch the players train in the park.

Unless of course, YOU are a billionaire, willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If so, I'm sure Steve would love a call....

[Kingswood Robin]

I agree with most of what the OP said, but I'm a bit more than disappointed. We are simply not worth watching and haven't been for 3 / 4 years now. It's a monotonous chore. Drive to match, sit down, watch terrible performance, lose match, drive home thinking what on earth was that/why did I bother. Week in week out the same. If you haven't been watching afar, it really is that bad Steve.

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Yes he is...

Where would we have been without him?

In my opinion 

League 1 at best.

No championship football.

No real improvements to the Gate, still hoping that when you take a piss at half time in the East end you may be able to stand in the shallow end.

Therefore, no extra revenue coming in.

Worst case we could be another Bury. Going bust now due to covid.

Best case? We would have a local derby and we could watch the players train in the park.

Unless of course, YOU are a billionaire, willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If so, I'm sure Steve would love a call....

This is another argument that makes me laugh. I’d love to tell SL what I think. Why are you scared to call him out or question him. Why do people always say “oh it could be worse “ 

How about this . How about if we’d have investors / owners like Leicester city. Maybe owners with a bit less money than Lansdown but with a actual clue about the game . Stop hiding behind the shiny new stand argument. Don’t you think that we should be doing much better considering he’s spent in the region of £150m-£200m

On the pitch , where it actually matters we haven’t progressed at all in his twenty years 

[glynriley]

6 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Yes he is...

Where would we have been without him?

In my opinion 

League 1 at best.

No championship football.

No real improvements to the Gate, still hoping that when you take a piss at half time in the East end you may be able to stand in the shallow end.

Therefore, no extra revenue coming in.

Worst case we could be another Bury. Going bust now due to covid.

Best case? We would have a local derby and we could watch the players train in the park.

Unless of course, YOU are a billionaire, willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If so, I'm sure Steve would love a call....

******* hell..Dramatic much...!!

No championship football?? We acheived that under Joe Jordan long before SL came along. Had the board at the time held onto him, we might well be playing top flight football in a brand new stadium....

Who knows...?

[Kid in the Riot]

10 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Yes he is...

Where would we have been without him?

In my opinion 

League 1 at best.

No championship football.

No real improvements to the Gate, still hoping that when you take a piss at half time in the East end you may be able to stand in the shallow end.

Therefore, no extra revenue coming in.

Worst case we could be another Bury. Going bust now due to covid.

Best case? We would have a local derby and we could watch the players train in the park.

Unless of course, YOU are a billionaire, willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If so, I'm sure Steve would love a call....

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

[Rossi the Robin]

Good post 

A couple of wins and everyone is happy again 

Ridiculous on here sometimes but it’s a forum and entertaining 

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I agree with most of what the OP said, but I'm a bit more than disappointed. We are simply not worth watching and haven't been for 3 / 4 years now. It's a monotonous chore. Drive to match, sit down, watch terrible performance, lose match, drive home thinking what on earth was that/why did I bother. Week in week out the same. If you haven't been watching afar, it really is that bad Steve.

Yeah. I’m a bit more than disappointed too. But i was trying to take the right tone. The lunatics can shout into their keyboards the rest of us like yourself need to keep our heads.
 

But to be clear we are awful. :laugh:! 

[BCFC1959]

It seems to me that SL is content with Championship level which is a very dangerous game to play given the fact we do not have a Championship squad. Bigger clubs than us struggling in the lower leagues

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

This is another argument that makes me laugh. I’d love to tell SL what I think. Why are you scared to call him out or question him. Why do people always say “oh it could be worse “ 

How about this . How about if we’d have investors / owners like Leicester city. Maybe owners with a bit less money than Lansdown but with a actual clue about the game . Stop hiding behind the shiny new stand argument. Don’t you think that we should be doing much better considering he’s spent in the region of £150m-£200m

On the pitch , where it actually matters we haven’t progressed at all in his twenty years 

Sorry, my memory must be playing me up. I  could have sworn we were in league 1 when he took over.

So winning league 1, retaining championship football, being close to the playoffs twice, good cup runs shows no progression?

During this time he has completely rebuilt Ashton Gate, which has vastly increased revenue and built a new training complex.

Rubbish owner? I don't think so!

[Red_Alligator]

As said before, we need a squad transplant not new blood in the Manager's office. 

Please stick with NP and back him as fully as you can in the transfer windows to come.

The recent past needs to be taken as a harsh lesson in the retention and recruitment of players, and the club moves forward into another era. 

We all want success for Bristol City Football Club, whatever our own opinions on how we might achieve it.

COYR!!!

OTIB

[Galley is our king]

4 minutes ago, BCFC1959 said:

It seems to me that SL is content with Championship level which is a very dangerous game to play given the fact we do not have a Championship squad. Bigger clubs than us struggling in the lower leagues

I think a lot of supporters are also. Don't want to see the team dicked every game ala Norwich.

[Taylor10]

20 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Well said. Since Feb 2020, so coming on for two years, we have been going on a steep downward trajectory. You can't arrest a slide like that quickly. 

Pearson's two only "proper" signings (players actually in contract) were Tanner who was playing League 2 football at the end of August and Atkinson who was playing in the National League the season before last. 

If that doesn't show you where we are as a club at the moment, I don't know what will. 

Nail on head kid. This squad is terrible and for me comfortably worse than the last champ squad we had that went down.

NP needs to get more from what he has but I think a lot of people are over looking just how bad this squad is. 14 players moved on yet this squad is still mainly LJ’s which tells you a lot. Amazing how some of the NP out brigade are trying to claim Baker & Weimann were his signings too.

[2015]

20 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I agree with most of what the OP said, but I'm a bit more than disappointed. We are simply not worth watching and haven't been for 3 / 4 years now. It's a monotonous chore. Drive to match, sit down, watch terrible performance, lose match, drive home thinking what on earth was that/why did I bother. Week in week out the same. If you haven't been watching afar, it really is that bad Steve.

Pretty much accurate on how I feel towards the club. It's like Mr Lansdown has fallen asleep at the wheel since the League Cup run

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

I know you and Mrs L do pop in here fairly regularly. I also note another thread that starts in a frustrated manner. 
 

Yes we are a disappointed bunch right now. Things are not going well on the field in several areas, we are a bit/a lot shot shy the midfield can not retain possession and the forwards have nothing to work with and are just hoping for defensive mistakes

Not great.
 

However The manager is doing what he can with what he has been given and I suspect we are not far away from a couple of new faces from the academy starting soon 
 

Just keep with the plan. Pearson is the right bloke for this job at a club where Pep would struggle right now. Its going to be a fight over the next few months and hopefully we can gather a 16 that are up for it from within and perhaps spend a little cash when allowed. 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of the points you've made, but I do find threads like this speaking on everyone's behalf a bit jarring..

[frenchred]

34 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Well said. Since Feb 2020, so coming on for two years, we have been going on a steep downward trajectory. You can't arrest a slide like that quickly. 

Pearson's two only "proper" signings (players actually in contract) were Tanner who was playing League 2 football at the end of August and Atkinson who was playing in the National League the season before last. 

If that doesn't show you where we are as a club at the moment, I don't know what will. 

so were, james, king and simpson not his signings? there blind faith and support then there’s delusion!

thats before his decision to keep baker and the runner!

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't necessarily disagree with any of the points you've made, but I do find threads like this speaking on everyone's behalf a bit jarring..

Not sure that’s fair. I referred to the aggressive thread that already exists which in of itself shows I’m not speaking on behalf of everyone. I guess you (plural) read into things what you will and judging by the likes etc I am obviously expressing thoughts agreed by some/ many!

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Sorry, my memory must be playing me up. I  could have sworn we were in league 1 when he took over.

So winning league 1, retaining championship football, being close to the playoffs twice, good cup runs shows no progression?

During this time he has completely rebuilt Ashton Gate, which has vastly increased revenue and built a new training complex.

Rubbish owner? I don't think so!

As of now though, the direction of travel is back towards League One.

And if you are impressed with a couple of promotions from League One and getting in the Championship play-offs 13 years ago, then wait until you find out what a couple of clubs over the river have achieved in the past 20 years, both on similar budgets to ours...I would list Swansea and Cardiff's multiple promotions to the Premier League, major cup final appearances and European football but it would make me too ******* angry. 

[Supersonic Robin]

29 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Yes he is...

Where would we have been without him?

In my opinion 

League 1 at best.

No championship football.

No real improvements to the Gate, still hoping that when you take a piss at half time in the East end you may be able to stand in the shallow end.

Therefore, no extra revenue coming in.

Worst case we could be another Bury. Going bust now due to covid.

Best case? We would have a local derby and we could watch the players train in the park.

Unless of course, YOU are a billionaire, willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If so, I'm sure Steve would love a call....

SL has undoubtedly had the best interests of the club at heart during his time here (IMO). He's done some great work off the pitch with the stadium and training ground. On the pitch....not so much success.

I think some fans are overly negative about the possible alternatives to Lansdown though. Perhaps we would be stuck in League 1 - or perhaps we'd have spent over half a decade in the Premier League and won a domestic cup (as other clubs our size and smaller have done).

 

[Tin Soldier]

1 hour ago, tin said:

A relegation battle loomed before a ball was even kicked in anger for me, because I’m of the opinion a lot of players weren’t up to it and still aren’t.

It all boils down to individual expectations and this current crop in the current financial climate has done nothing over the last 18 months and more to suggest 2021/22 will be anything else than a bottom-eight struggle. 

Agreed, I stated this right at the start of the season, and was lambasted for it. Chickens are home to roost.

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, frenchred said:

so were, james, king and simpson not his signings? there blind faith and support then there’s delusion!

thats before his decision to keep baker and the runner!

I said signings of players "in contract" - sorry you can't read properly.

Since you've mentioned them though. King's last club was Leuven who were probably paying him peanuts as there's no money in Belgian football, and Simpson and King both took substantial paycuts to be here. Baker was a sensible re-signing on a pay-as-you-play deal and Weimann, who also took a paycut, is our top goalscorer with 6 in 16 which is a decent return. 

[TV Tom]

Can’t believe that people are having a pop at him, he’s thrown 10’s of millions at this club, maybe people would be happy with a foreign owner or the local guy who owns the local furnishing shop, of course some of his managerial appointments have been poor, (some of the better known posters on here were having a right pop at him when he appointed Cotterell, you know who you are) Holden was a shocker and this guy we have now is a disaster particularly when Cooper and Martin were available, unfortunately he bowed to fan pressure

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I said signings of players "in contract" - sorry you can't read properly.

Since you've mentioned them though. King's last club was Leuven who were probably paying him peanuts as there's no money in Belgian football, and Simpson and King both took substantial paycuts to be here. Baker was a sensible re-signing on a pay-as-you-play deal and Weimann, who also took a paycut, is our top goalscorer with 6 in 16 which is a decent return. 

wtf, a signing is a signing regardless of wage, we still pay them! sorry for your lack of understanding.

bottom line is they are his signings and the majority ain’t good enough or should have to ben relied on yet

[Alessandro]

52 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

A post hard to argue with - we do seem to be an endless cycle of “feast and famine” during SL’s ownership =  Relative progress when he and we are able (FFP) to invest money in the project and big steps backwards when the club has to regroup and save as we recover from a mess often of his making.

The only point I’d argue is the use of spending figures out of context to those clubs around us. I caveat the following by saying and I do believe the reality is mistakes been made and could the money have been better spent at times, 110% yes.

But quoting £100m out of context I don’t agree with as in that period we have had teams around us making our spending look like pocket money.

Year on year under SL, despite him spending those aforementioned millions, our wage bill and our net transfer spend has never, if ever been much above mid table in the championship. 

So for me it’s not a simple, ‘we’ve underachieved when you look at what we spend’ because IMO that isn’t necessarily the case.

When you realise that and where we sit financially in the football pyramid as a club (and I’m not talking personal wealth of owner) - that is where the core of the debate is for me and where we need to look to move forwards as a club.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[steviestevieneville]

22 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Good post 

A couple of wins and everyone is happy again 

Ridiculous on here sometimes but it’s a forum and entertaining 

I haven’t been happy with how Lansdown has ran the football side of the club for years tbh . 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

But quoting £100m out of context I don’t agree with as in that period we have had teams around us making our spending look like pocket money.

Year on year under SL, despite him spending those aforementioned millions, our wage bill and our net transfer spend has never, if ever been much above mid table in the championship. 

So for me it’s not a simple, ‘we’ve underachieved when you look at what we spend’ because IMO that isn’t necessarily the case.

When you realise that and where we sit financially in the football pyramid as a club (and I’m not talking personal wealth of owner) - that is where the core of the debate is for me and where we need to look to move forwards as a club.

A fair point. However, I would counter it by saying there are also a lot of similar sized and indeed smaller clubs than us, that have made it to the Premier League and/or achieved more success than us. There are even some that started below us in the pyramid, like Brighton and Swansea, who sailed past us with ease. Neither had financial backing on the level of SL. And of course we can complain about the Championship not being a level playing field (what division is to be fair) but there is a solution to that - win promotion to the Premier League and take advantage of those parachute payments if you get relegated, as others do. We've had the opportunity and potential to try it, but have never fully committed in my eyes. 

[BCFC Grim]

27 minutes ago, harrys said:

Can’t believe that people are having a pop at him, he’s thrown 10’s of millions at this club, maybe people would be happy with a foreign owner or the local guy who owns the local furnishing shop, of course some of his managerial appointments have been poor, (some of the better known posters on here were having a right pop at him when he appointed Cotterell, you know who you are) Holden was a shocker and this guy we have now is a disaster particularly when Cooper and Martin were available, unfortunately he bowed to fan pressure

Hes thrown 10s of millions? Do you mean to bail us out? Because that is simply down to his own mis management. He simply hasn't a clue when it comes to running a football club. Look at his appointments. Do you mean Cotterill? Common knowledge says that wasn't even his choice.And look how that pre season went. A complete shitstorm when we had the chance to really progress. He's built a legacy here and it isnt on the pitch. Bristol sport has become his priority and when he does finally go he won't be going empty handed thats for sure. Don't get me started on the smaller clubs that have just completely bypassed us by in recent years.

Let me ask anyone who believes under him we can make the next level......whats more likely in the coming couple of years? Relegation or promotion?

It seems some people are finally waking up.....

[AshtonGreat]

37 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

SL has undoubtedly had the best interests of the club at heart during his time here (IMO). He's done some great work off the pitch with the stadium and training ground. On the pitch....not so much success.

I think some fans are overly negative about the possible alternatives to Lansdown though. Perhaps we would be stuck in League 1 - or perhaps we'd have spent over half a decade in the Premier League and won a domestic cup (as other clubs our size and smaller have done).

 

Might as well have been training on the local park, the good that training ground has done

[Rossi the Robin]

9 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I haven’t been happy with how Lansdown has ran the football side of the club for years tbh . 

Fair enough mate, I respect that, but a few wins and these types of posts disappear until another bad run 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Yeah. I’m a bit more than disappointed too. But i was trying to take the right tone. The lunatics can shout into their keyboards the rest of us like yourself need to keep our heads.
 

But to be clear we are awful. :laugh:! 

Nobody’s shout into their keyboards no more than you . We’re expressing a opinion that SL has been a failure in a football perspective. I’ve said it for years. We’ll never see prem football at Ashton gate as long as Lansdown is at the helm. 

[Alessandro]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A fair point. However, I would counter it by saying there are also a lot of similar sized and indeed smaller clubs than us, that have made it to the Premier League and/or achieved more success than us. There are even some that started below us in the pyramid, like Brighton and Swansea, who sailed past us with ease. Neither had financial backing on the level of SL. And of course we can complain about the Championship not being a level playing field (what division is to be fair) but there is a solution to that - win promotion to the Premier League and take advantage of those parachute payments if you get relegated, as others do. We've had the opportunity and potential to try it, but have never fully committed in my eyes. 

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[steviestevieneville]

32 minutes ago, frenchred said:

wtf, a signing is a signing regardless of wage, we still pay them! sorry for your lack of understanding.

bottom line is they are his signings and the majority ain’t good enough or should have to ben relied on yet

Which Pearson’s signings aren’t good enough apart from simpson , although he can still do a job & Tanner learning on the job but has plenty of potential . This is the type of player we need to be signing . He also had to bring in some experience. The players he’s inherited are the problem

[RedRock]

Still back SL to get it right eventually, and NP to get the train back on the rails - more likely in a role of Director of Football than manager one suspects, unless he can recruit one top quality coach to work under him pretty sharpish.

We’re are beyond awful though. We have 4-6 players who are ok, the rest are pretty rubbish frankly.

Any of those half dozen get injured - as some regularly do - and we end up with a side looking worse than a low division Downs League team.  

[RedHienz]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

So , are you making a rallying call to the man , whose ineptitude as a owner has put us in the mess we’re in ? A man who twice employed a bloke who completely ****** up our recruitment. Yes , not once but twice he’s employed him. A man who saw fit to not question some of the terrible illogical signings over the last 4 years . Not questioned any of it . 
Oh , sorry he built a couple of stands it’s all good , silly me.

Bore off.

Show me a club owner that hasn't messed up, there is no magical formula and many many mitigating factors.

Weak squad not really a huge mess, but 2 windows away from what we need.

The guy has single handedly saved this club from an even bigger mess, also known as insolvency. 

But hey f××k it lets try and do a Derby hey! All aboard the the no FFP bus!

Im sure SL regrets pissing in your cornflakes.

[steviestevieneville]

6 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Nobody’s shout into their keyboards no more than you . We’re expressing a opinion that SL has been a failure in a football perspective. I’ve said it for years. We’ll never see prem football at Ashton gate as long as Lansdown is at the helm. 

@REDOXOtwice now you’ve put a laughing emoji under my posts . That’s fine , but if you really had a counter argument you’d post it. Says it all really. 

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, RedHienz said:

Bore off.

Show me a club owner that hasn't messed up, there is no magical formula and many many mitigating factors.

Weak squad not really a huge mess, but 2 windows away from what we need.

The guy has single handedly saved this club from an even bigger mess, also known as insolvency. 

But hey f××k it lets try and do a Derby hey! All aboard the the no FFP bus!

Im sure SL regrets pissing in your cornflakes.

Ooh bore off your post is a complete load of bollocks . Where has this insolvency crap come from . Would that be the £50m of debt after the play off final defeat. Now who was in charge then that racked up a eye watering wage bill on shit over the hill players that resulted in relegation ? Oh yes Stephen Lansdown . You admit we got a weak squad . Crap players on big wages. Who agreed to the signings of these players . Oh yes Stephan Lansdown . There’s never been a clear football plan how to go about promotion of just getting better consistently . 

if anything he’s wasted his own money thinking he knows about the game . Appointing people like tinnion & Kieth millen , mciines, LJ as managers . If he’d appointed a proper director of football to make the football decisions we wouldn’t be in this mess . But no, he appoints a wannabe in mark ashton not once but twice . Mistake after mistake. So stop talking complete & utter drivel 

[Supersonic Robin]

6 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

[steviestevieneville]

11 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Still back SL to get it right eventually, and NP to get the train back on the rails - more likely in a role of Director of Football than manager one suspects, unless he can recruit one top quality coach to work under him pretty sharpish.

We’re are beyond awful though. We have 4-6 players who are ok, the rest are pretty rubbish frankly.

Any of those half dozen get injured - as some regularly do - and we end up with a side looking worse than a low division Downs League team.  

He’s been in charge 20 years . Fans immediately want to point the finger at the manager & it’s lazy. There’s nothing wrong with questioning SL’s decisions 

[Kid in the Riot]

12 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Agreed - however I would argue both Swansea and Brighton invested pretty heavily on and off the pitch, most likely more than us. Especially in Brighton’s case, didn’t they really go for it financially and either it was before FFP or they avoided it by getting promotion ala Villa? That might be Bournemouth I’m thinking about. Either way, for every Swansea, Brentford or Brighton is a Forest, Sunderland or Sheffield Wednesday.
 

We can go round in circles like that but every year for some time now as I say it boils down to us having at best a mid-table championship budget.

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I hear what you're saying about mid-table budget. Under LJ we were about 14th/15th highest in terms of wages. Which is why I consistently made the point at the time, that his top half finish (11th?) and 8th placed finish were decent, all considered. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

In a financial stability sense not many , if any . However in a footballing sense . They’ve all been prem clubs recently except cov 

[Peter1450]

2 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

I can’t imagine any of the above would want to swap with anything we have, at least they’ve experienced the highs which is more than can be said at Ashton Gate,to use someone’s user name on here…….Where is the Joy?

[Alessandro]

25 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[RedHienz]

35 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Ooh bore off your post is a complete load of bollocks . Where has this insolvency crap come from . Would that be the £50m of debt after the play off final defeat. Now who was in charge then that racked up a eye watering wage bill on shit over the hill players that resulted in relegation ? Oh yes Stephen Lansdown . You admit we got a weak squad . Crap players on big wages. Who agreed to the signings of these players . Oh yes Stephan Lansdown . There’s never been a clear football plan how to go about promotion of just getting better consistently . 

if anything he’s wasted his own money thinking he knows about the game . Appointing people like tinnion & Kieth millen , mciines, LJ as managers . If he’d appointed a proper director of football to make the football decisions we wouldn’t be in this mess . But no, he appoints a wannabe in mark ashton not once but twice . Mistake after mistake. So stop talking complete & utter drivel 

So are you SL in or SL out? Dont hold back. 

Ill be leaving speaking bollocks to you chap, seem to be nailing it.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by RedHienz

[frenchred]

47 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Which Pearson’s signings aren’t good enough apart from simpson , although he can still do a job & Tanner learning on the job but has plenty of potential . This is the type of player we need to be signing . He also had to bring in some experience. The players he’s inherited are the problem

simpson ain’t good enough, king ain’t good enough, tanner and atkinson shouldn’t have to be relied on straight away when they were bought “for the future”

if you think simpson “can still do a job” i’m afraid your mistake 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

Not sure that’s fair. I referred to the aggressive thread that already exists which in of itself shows I’m not speaking on behalf of everyone. I guess you (plural) read into things what you will and judging by the likes etc I am obviously expressing thoughts agreed by some/ many!

At this moment in time I would hazard a guess it's more some than many, there are a lot of posters that don't criticise because of the stick they receive whereas supportive posts tend to attract likes because most of us on here ultimately want the club to succeed, but even the most rose tinted have to accept a lot of things have gone badly wrong over the last few years and not a lot has gone right criticism is only to be expected. 

[lenred]

41 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Just a thought on this with no agenda other than to prompt discussion:

When discussing Lansdown and good/bad owners, we quite frequently reference clubs who have had a much bumpier ride than us with their owners (e.g. Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Portsmouth, Coventry, Wigan, etc), often using them as examples of "when things go wrong". 

If offered, how many of those clubs would actually swap their last 10-20 years (including running of their club) for ours? 

Said it before numerous times. Give me their journey over ours any time of day or night! Imagine the memories they’ve had over the time SL has been in charge.  Maybe Cov’s good times were slightly before but still. Would take any of their recent (25 year) history over ours. 

[lenred]

18 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Depending on which side you're bread's buttered you can make the comparison either way for us versus other clubs, successful or otherwise.

As for other clubs wishing to be 'in our position'? Well the majority no doubt wouldn't. We've had very little to cheer on the pitch for 20 years, so very few would swap for that. 

But i'm sure, when you look at the position we are in; recent stadium development, new training ground, stable owner, relatively financially stable club, commercial viability, catchment area, been established in the championship for 6 years etc...i'm sure there are many who would and do envy us, perhaps not in on field success, but in other ways.

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

Yep most definitely.  Hull had the highs of going up and although they went down to L1 came back up and are now our level now. Other than Cardiff’s red shirt saga I’d take their recent history over ours as well. Can’t see why anyone wouldn’t objectively.  No lower than us and plenty higher over recent years. Cup finals etc.  

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

[Alessandro]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

I didn't say any Cardiff fan would swap with us, of course not!

I just mean't, in our position, at what cost would you have a few seasons of success? In reference to Hull's ongoing struggles and seemingly Cardiff's increasing issues on and off the pitch.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alessandro

[Red Exile]

57 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Would you rather be like Hull or Cardiff, with a few seasons of 'success' - but at what cost? 

My in-laws are Hull fans. They've seen some of the greatest moments in their club's history in the years we've been failing to get back to the Championship play-offs. I take your point but in all honesty I can't imagine they'd swap that for what we've been watching.

[Red0499]

What I really struggle with is the feeling that as fans we have been hard done by or missed out on something we were entitled to.

Maybe if you look at amount invested v. on field success then the club has underachieved under current ownership. I really have no idea if that is the case. 

But even if true that is really not that relevant to me. It is only relevant to me if you assume that any other owner would have invested the same or more. 

Not sure when SL became owner? 2002? Out of the clubs around us then sure some have had more success (Brighton, Brentford, Cardiff etc) but equally others have faired a lot worse (Notts County, Wrexham, Bury). You can argue it whichever way you want. 

 

[TedsHeadIs Red]

My top suggestion for SL is to rename the High Performance Centre to something less laughable.

[Red Exile]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I think this is it. What an opportunity we had.

And then Lee Johnson was such an ego trip of an appointment...'I'll show them...'

There will of course be many who say that it's all very well to criticise with the benefit of hindsight, but it's been possible to take a cold hard look at Steve Lansdown's tenure for years. He gets a very easy ride, expectations are so low. Even when he himself raises them with his Prem talk people let him off. His money blinds.

If I wanted to admire great contemporary architecture I wouldn't beat a path to Ashton Gate, nice though the stand he named after himself might be. If I wanted to be entertained by a football team I wouldn't waste a lot of time at Ashton Gate either. It's been dire for most of the past 20 years.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[BCFCinNW6]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

At last someone speaks the truth

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I doubt a single Cardiff fan would want to swap places with us. In the last 15 years they've won promotion to the Prem twice and been in an FA Cup and League Cup final. 

Every day of the week.

I despise Cardiff but they have achieved far more than us in the SL era & what would they be swapping it for? A cup run & nearly making the playoffs a few times since 2008..

Hull are a mess & possibly heading back to L1 but I’m not sure they would swap for the 2 seasons they had in The Prem, either.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

Football in the top 2 tiers is a highly expensive business with no guarantees- albeit had he gone for it in past times, we might have shot up to the PL- thinking in January 2008 and failing that, 2008/09 to push on from Wembley.

How much did Chansiri put into SWFC? Or Morris into Derby? From might I add, a stronger and notably stronger respectively starting position than SL when he took over. What have Reading achieved for their overspending from 2017/18 onwards .Again a playoff season in 2016/17 and then the new owners could give it a go for a year or 2...above us on GD that's where.

QPR had a number of billionaires in charge from 2010 to a few years ago- they must be in the PL on a regular...oh no, wait- they're back at this level and had some seasons of struggle or relative struggle in recent times.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Both those clubs made the most of their new stadiums and struck while the iron was hot. We had a massive opportunity in the summer of 2015 to back a title winning manager and squad, and as everyone knows we spectacularly blew it. 

I hear what you're saying about mid-table budget. Under LJ we were about 14th/15th highest in terms of wages. Which is why I consistently made the point at the time, that his top half finish (11th?) and 8th placed finish were decent, all considered. 

Brighton invested rather heavily agreed, Swansea dunno how heavily they invested but they had a great unique model, not so much in terms of replacing players like Brentford but replacing and indeed upgrading on coaches in a way that fit their philosophy- Martinez was the beginning probably, Laudrup's departure the end.

Struck when iron was hot? Agree, plenty of sides have. We did not.

FFP was a consideration for us on promotion, I think we probably had another £3-4m of headroom that season, any kinda breach during that first season back, and it would have been an embargo in 2016/17 if not promoted in 2015/16- those rules remained in play, and 2015/16 was the final season of them. Perhaps it would have been an embargo in Jan 2017 but bear in mind, the two sets of rules crossed over at this time so a big spending spree could have seen us hemmed in in 2016/17 in any case when the 3 year one was activated.

Who would you have signed- what would your transfer strategy have been- in Summer 2015 while remaining within the £13m allowance, combined with regard for 2016/17 as the 1st year of 3 year assessment?

Nottingham Forest and Blackburn are two interesting examples, it took them some time to recover from their embargoes- in fact it probably helped to relegate the latter, and in the case of the former it lasted about 18 months until they got back to balance.

Spend for promotion one option I suppose to bypass it...talking first year up under Cotts.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

As of now though, the direction of travel is back towards League One.

And if you are impressed with a couple of promotions from League One and getting in the Championship play-offs 13 years ago, then wait until you find out what a couple of clubs over the river have achieved in the past 20 years, both on similar budgets to ours...I would list Swansea and Cardiff's multiple promotions to the Premier League, major cup final appearances and European football but it would make me too ******* angry. 

FFP didn't exist when Cardiff went up, at least not in the same way. Swansea too although their managerial strategy perhaps helped to compensate for a relative lack of spending power.

[Red Exile]

21 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Football in the top 2 tiers is a highly expensive business with no guarantees- albeit had he gone for it in past times, we might have shot up to the PL- thinking in January 2008 and failing that, 2008/09 to push on from Wembley.

How much did Chansiri put into SWFC? Or Morris into Derby? From might I add, a stronger and notably stronger respectively starting position than SL when he took over. What have Reading achieved for their overspending from 2017/18 onwards .Again a playoff season in 2016/17 and then the new owners could give it a go for a year or 2...above us on GD that's where.

QPR had a number of billionaires in charge from 2010 to a few years ago- they must be in the PL on a regular...oh no, wait- they're back at this level and had some seasons of struggle or relative struggle in recent times.

You're being very generous in your assessments of Lansdown. I mean, it's great we haven't gone bust, but....

Had anyone walking away from Wembley in 2008 been told that for all Lansdown's cash 13 years later we'd  have had a relegation and not been back I think they'd have been horrified! I've met SL several times. Decent enough chap. His critics don't, though, have to earn the right to criticise by offering an alternative strategy. We are not remotely privy to what goes on at the top of the club. It's a firmly closed shop. Lansdown has taken little advice, and that he's taken has clearly been poor. Other clubs have been better run and as a consequence more successful. If you want a prime example I give you Burnley, a club with a leadership structure - at the time they went up and managed to stay up - a world away from anything SL would tolerate. They had, would you believe it, a Board of Directors!

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile

[BS4 on Tour...]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL has underachieved at City, so whilst we could be worse off without him, it's true to say we could also be a lot better off without him. I posted this on another thread:

 

He's been one of the wealthiest owners in English football (top 15) throughout his time in charge at City, yet only the following has been delivered:

1) Football League Trophy winners 2003

2) Third division runners-up 2007

3) Second division play-off finalists 2008

4) Third division champions and Football League Trophy winners 2015*

5) League Cup semi-finalists 2018

And that's it. 

The * is there because the manager that delivered those two pieces of silverware was not even SL's choice. The FL Trophy win in 2003 was delivered by Wilson, who was already at the club when SL took over.

So really we are down to SL's football achievements at City being a couple of years under Gary Johnson and a League Cup win over Man United. In 20 years. With £100m+ spent on the playing side. 

Sad to say, but it's appalling underachievement.

You’ve missed out third division play-off finalists in 2004!! ... and your post seems to ignore the fact that Mr Lansdown was a Bristol City Board member from 1996 to 2011, holding the position of Chairman from 2002 to 2011, so to suggest he had nothing to do with Danny Wilson’s appointment cannot be correct... still, these minor points pale into insignificance when you read on the official club website that under Mr Lansdown’s ownership, City won the Sky Bet Championship title in 2015 with 99 points!!! So I must have missed our time up in the premier league - how did we get on?! So, do you still only believe what you read on the official site @Robbored ???!!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Red Exile said:

You're being very generous in your assessments of Lansdown. I mean, it's great we haven't gone bust, but....

Had anyone walking away from Wembley in 2008 been told that for all Lansdown's cash 13 years later we'd  have had a relegation and not been back I think they'd have been horrified! I've met SL several times. Decent enough chap. His critics don't, though, have to earn the right to criticise by offering an alternative strategy. We are not remotely privy to what goes on at the top of the club. It's a firmly closed shop. Lansdown has taken little advice, and that he's taken has clearly been poor. Other clubs have been better run and as a consequence more successful. If you want a prime example I give you Burnley, a club with a leadership structure - at the time they went up and managed to stay up - a world away from anything SL would tolerate.

Okay thanks- Burnley seems a great example, they also struck when the iron was hot- which we have not. They went up in 2008/09 and arguably the momentum of reaching the Carling Cup semi finals- eliminating 2 PL sides and losing to a 3rd in the semis, how familiar does that sound helped spur them on and up through the playoffs they went!

I wonder if our Cup experience in 2017/18, combined with our Cup runs or experience in the years that preceded it could have propelled us to an unlikely playoff win in 2017/18? That was a year we should absolutely have made the playoffs IMO.

Parachute Payments and a frugal policy in the PL helped to set them up for some time to come. 4 years, that helps to stabilise a hell of a lot- they went up again in 2013/14...and guess what, down they came- back up in 2015/16 but they used the Parachute Payment system very well and made it stick in 2016/17 and still they are there.

My overarching point though, is that money is no guarantee- going bust isn't the case with most of the examples I gave either, with the possible exception of Derby- the position of them and the position of SWFC when their new owners/investors arrived in 2015 was a strong one to push on from. Went well...although it nearly worked as well, both lost a playoff final at this level. Risk v Reward?

I also would ask @Kid in the Riot the following.

You often talk of new investment. However that does not change the underlying Profit and Loss position as such. They will still be able to spend if they wish to, up to what SL can spend now if he wishes to- up to allowable limits- so in the short and perhaps medium term, I would ask what difference you believe it would make? There is no magic reset with new investment or ownership.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Exile]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay thanks- Burnley seems a great example, they also struck when the iron was hot- which we have not. They went up in 2008/09 and arguably the momentum of reaching the Carling Cup semi finals- eliminating 2 PL sides and losing to a 3rd in the semis, how familiar does that sound helped spur them on and up through the playoffs they went!

Parachute Payments and a frugal policy in the PL helped to set them up for some time to come. 4 years, that helps to stabilise a hell of a lot- they went up again in 2013/14...and guess what, down they came- back up in 2015/16 but they used the Parachute Payment system very well and made it stick in 2016/17 and still they are there.

My overarching point though, is that money is no guarantee- going bust isn't the case with most of the examples I gave either, with the possible exception of Derby- the position of them and the position of SWFC when their new owners/investors arrived in 2015 was a strong one to push on from. Went well...although it nearly worked as well, both lost a playoff final at this level. Risk v Reward?

I take your point, which is a good one. But I mention Burnley because I recall a discussion on here years ago about their structure. I'd met their Chairman and one of their directors at an event. Humble, down to earth, wealthy but very much first among equals, a bunch of local businessmen with a love of the club, all supporting and challenging each other. The contrast with SL's City could not have been greater. Their approach seemed sustainable not in the financial sense but in the sense of involving the local community. It wasn't open to the accusation, however unfair, that it was all a bit of an ego trip. And as it happens it was far more successful. They were, also as it happens, passionate football people. I don't believe that SL is a football person...or, frankly, even much of a City fan in the sense that most of us are.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Red Exile