Pearson & Fleming : OUT

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Do we have to start this conversation again every time we lose? I would understand it after three bad performances in a row but two decent performances in the last week seem to fly out the window, along with the fact we are missing our three most experienced central midfielders.

Yes - it  is worrying how dependent our season appears to be on Williams’ hamstrings but bored by supporters of a team expected to finish lower mid table throwing their toys out the pram because we lost away to a team just out of the premier league when we have injuries and they have a new manager bounce.

Yes- depending on how many times we fail to win or put in a cohesive performance where the players look like they give a shit. 

It's a forum and fortunately there are no rules in not stating an opinion which you believe in. If believing that our Manager of 8 months after 34 matches is not the right man for the job yet "throwing toys out of my pram" then you best duck. 

[BUTOR]

4 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's now over 8 months since Nige took on the "project" . According to many, the problem is entirely with the squad and not the coaching. I disagree.  Nigel has made it very clear what he wants from the players and has very publicly stated that he'll get rid of those who dont buy into what he's trying to do .... which seems like just about everyone. 

Thoughts anyone? 

There is no one out there that is realistically going to get some of these drips doing the basics right. We are where we are as a result of inept recruitment for years. It says it all when the young players Pearson has bled into the starting eleven have more understanding of gamesmanship and are making smarter on field decisions than our senior pros.

I fail to see how someone like Alex Neil going to magically remove the softness that is the detriment of this group of players? Or get miracles out of a midfield with an average age of 20? Pearson has recognised the issues, is transparent about them and has began the process of re-building. We can bounce from manager to manager but eventually someone is going to need time enough to build their own team with their own players and their own values. That kind of process takes longer than 8 months.  

This team is infuriating to watch at times, not least when stood in a freezing Northern away end beneath falling snow, but this season has shown that a bit of leadership (Williams) can change how the entire eleven performs. We need more of it, and January is approaching. Lets have a bit of patience. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Yes- depending on how many times we fail to win or put in a cohesive performance where the players look like they give a shit. 

It's a forum and fortunately there are no rules in not stating an opinion which you believe in. If believing that our Manager of 8 months after 34 matches is not the right man for the job yet "throwing toys out of my pram" then you best duck. 

Oh **** off 

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Yes- depending on how many times we fail to win or put in a cohesive performance where the players look like they give a shit. 

It's a forum and fortunately there are no rules in not stating an opinion which you believe in. If believing that our Manager of 8 months after 34 matches is not the right man for the job yet "throwing toys out of my pram" then you best duck. 

You are welcome to state your opinion. I just wonder how annoyed you were against Stoke when you didn’t get an opportunity to state it.  You are free to state your opinion and I am free to form my own opinion of fellow City fans who gloat when we lose.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

You are welcome to state your opinion. I just wonder how annoyed you were against Stoke when you didn’t get an opportunity to state it.  You are free to state your opinion and I am free to form my own opinion of fellow City fans who gloat when we lose.

Those who gloat following a loss are not any type of fan.

Clearly, I'm not welcome to state my opinion.

 

[IAmNick]

4 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Those who gloat following a loss are not any type of fan.

Clearly, I'm not welcome to state my opinion.

 

Oh come on.

After Saturday's game you made 3 posts late on, all negative and complaining.

After Wednesday's win, we got one. Mentioning how the performance wasn't good.

Today? We've had 6 in the last 30 minutes.

Edited November 28, 2021 by IAmNick

[MATT BCFC]

We look poorly coached and have for a while now to be honest. We don't defend very well, can't keep the ball and don't look like scoring many goals. We may get lucky and stay up this season but can't see it being too many more seasons until we are back in league one.

[David Brent]

8 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Those who gloat following a loss are not any type of fan.

Clearly, I'm not welcome to state my opinion.

 

You’re a clown. In my opinion.

[DaveInSA]

If I was big steve, I’d be busting a gut to get Shakes here.

The level of competence of the players is not at the levels of Championship football week in week out.

If, they all play at their best, we can get results. But there’s just too many liabilities.Too many mistakes. No leaders out in the pitch.

Pearson can polish the turds any more than he has already. The turds are just that, turds. And some of them are stealing a wage at 20k per week and not even on the bench.

Its totally naive to think NP hasn’t made an impact. This is a 20 year project. We’ve had no footballing philosophy for years. None. There’s zero foundations at the club. It’s no use having 30 clubs in the bag if they’re all left handed drivers.

 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Oh come on.

After Saturday's game you made 3 posts late on, all negative and complaining.

After Wednesday's win, we got one. Mentioning how the performance wasn't good.

Today? We've had 6 in the last 30 minutes.

Funnily enough I rarely post when I'm at a game- I tend to watch the game not otib

This is the post you mention which was at 22:03 after the game. No "agenda" just my thoughts.

Felt and sounded better than Barnsley. Still not a good performance yet here we are- 3 points nicked from a side who are near the top. We have a team capable of competing at the right end of the table.

•  Wednesday at 22:03

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, David Brent said:

You’re a clown. In my opinion.

are you sure it's not an agenda?

[AshtonGreat]

18 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

There is no one out there that is realistically going to get some of these drips doing the basics right. We are where we are as a result of inept recruitment for years. It says it all when the young players Pearson has bled into the starting eleven have more understanding of gamesmanship and are making smarter on field decisions than our senior pros.

I fail to see how someone like Alex Neil going to magically remove the softness that is the detriment of this group of players? Or get miracles out of a midfield with an average age of 20? Pearson has recognised the issues, is transparent about them and has began the process of re-building. We can bounce from manager to manager but eventually someone is going to need time enough to build their own team with their own players and their own values. That kind of process takes longer than 8 months.  

This team is infuriating to watch at times, not least when stood in a freezing Northern away end beneath falling snow, but this season has shown that a bit of leadership (Williams) can change how the entire eleven performs. We need more of it, and January is approaching. Lets have a bit of patience. 

I disagree with that

[Bazooka Joe]

10 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

You are welcome to state your opinion. I just wonder how annoyed you were against Stoke when you didn’t get an opportunity to state it.  You are free to state your opinion and I am free to form my own opinion of fellow City fans who gloat when we lose.

TBF I don't believe any genuine City fans on here gloats when we lose (as opposed to a Fewer or other masquerading as a Red).

It's just that some City fans feel the pain and disappointment more strongly than others, and have a more pessimistic view of where we are now and the promise of a brighter future.

We are all on the same side. I'd be happier if fellow Reds avoided unnecessary, personal and prolonged spats with one another, but ain't much anyone here can do about keyboard aggro. It's part and parcel of most fans' forums.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

If I was big steve, I’d be busting a gut to get Shakes here.

Leaving Norwich so soon?

Edited November 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[BUTOR]

4 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I disagree with that

Available, realistic and viable for both the short and long term - who? 

[Lack of Action Man]

Pearson needs to stay, the players who don’t want to be here (or don’t buy into the longer term plan at the club) need shipping out.

More than anything we desperately need to bring a quality finisher in. Either a forward or attacking midfield player we could deploy similarly to how we moulded Bobby Reid.

(I’m not even sure who we could get though).

[WECANDO]

A forward with pace would be a good start.

[Swede]

As I've said before anything approaching mid table will be a success. Unfortunately there will be a few more painful times, quite a few more, for everybody to suck up such is the state we're in.

We all know where we are and everyone's opinion is welcome. The personal insults are not welcome though. It's what makes OTIB.

I try to look for the positives. Our predicament certainly has galvanised the crowd at home. We do have a proper manager with a proven track record. Let's get to the transfer window and see what he can do before doing anything drastic.

[LondonBristolian]

41 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Those who gloat following a loss are not any type of fan.

Clearly, I'm not welcome to state my opinion.

 

It is a forum. You cannot whinge when your opinions are critiqued. Free speech works both ways. You are welcome to express an opinion and I am welcome to express an opinion on your opinion. You may want to stop grousing and deal with the fact that free speech means both the freedom to express an opinion and others’ freedom to respond to it.

Edited November 28, 2021 by LondonBristolian

[AshtonGreat]

10 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Available, realistic and viable for both the short and long term - who? 

No idea, but I don't think it's accurate to blame the players 100%. Shite as they are, the manager and coaches are paid well to do a job, and if they aren't doing that, what's the point having them?

[Bar BS3]

Dean Holden won DOUBLE the amount of games as NP has won in same amount of fixtures (maybe 1 more) 

And NP has lost more games than Holden did in that same period. 

It's abysmal...! 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

35 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Those who gloat following a loss are not any type of fan.

Clearly, I'm not welcome to state my opinion.

 

Unfortunately Marina there are posters on this forum who don't think that anyone else than them has an opinion other than theirs.  These posters are best ignored, especially when their only reply is a swear word, just shows their level of intelligence.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

44 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

You are welcome to state your opinion. I just wonder how annoyed you were against Stoke when you didn’t get an opportunity to state it.  You are free to state your opinion and I am free to form my own opinion of fellow City fans who gloat when we lose.

 

12 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

It is a forum. You cannot whinge when your opinions are critiques. Free speech works both ways. You are welcome to express an opinion and I am welcome to express an opinion on your opinion. You may want to stop grousing and deal with that.

You are falsely commenting on my lack of reaction following the Stoke game- that's not your  opinion, it's your misleading narrative . I did clearly state my opinion following my attendance of the Stoke match- here it is( for the 2nd time):

Felt and sounded better than Barnsley. Still not a good performance yet here we are- 3 points nicked from a side who are near the top. We have a team capable of competing at the right end of the table.

 Wednesday at 22:03

End of.

[steviestevieneville]

Most fans with any sense could see we would be wildly inconsistent this season. The problems go back four years . For all the SL lovers who fall at his feet, he’s culpable . He allowed Ashton full reins on everything football wise . Even his son had a pop when it was announced ashton was leaving . Saying along the lines of , it’s not a good thing to have one man in charge of everything. 
Pearson’s job is unenviable . He’s got the SOD job of sorting this mess out , ironically both caused by Ashton. The decks need clearing . There are plenty of players that imo are not good enough but pearson has his hands tied.

For all those wanting Pearson out , just think. Who would come in & what would or could they do with this current squad to change things. It’s very easy & lazy to blame the manager. 
look at our midfield today , the area of the pitch that wins & loses every football match . So inexperienced it’s unreal. People slagging off Bakinson but no mention of massengo . Very undisciplined today but he’s 20 , along with a 18 year old . Would we  have been so poor with james & williams in there . The answers no.

[Loosey Boy]

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

Who would come to City and do any better?

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

Edited November 28, 2021 by Loosey Boy

[Jefferz]

I wonder if it is simply a case of not replacing the quality players that left: Webster, Browning, Cordova-Reid, Bryan, Kelly, Diedhiou, etc. The squad is palpably weaker and NP’s argument that the big, flabby squad with too many injuries had to be slimmed down hasn’t paid off. (It may have been a spin from the top to cover the cut in the wage bill)

Cardiff City did not replace quality players that left with similar consequences 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Jefferz

[Roadrunner]

And replace with who. Someone who can guarantee to win every game. Give Nigel time to replace these players with his players, then you can start asking the question. So back to the lead question. No, No, not at the moment.

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, Loosey Boy said:

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

Ran out of likes 

In a nutshell Sir, in a nutshell 

[Jefferz]

But is it unfair of fans to believe that a new, ‘better’ manager can do better with the existing squad? We seem to be getting worse. 

[LondonBristolian]

18 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

 

You are falsely commenting on my lack of reaction following the Stoke game- that's not your  opinion, it's your misleading narrative . I did clearly state my opinion following my attendance of the Stoke match- here it is( for the 2nd time):

Felt and sounded better than Barnsley. Still not a good performance yet here we are- 3 points nicked from a side who are near the top. We have a team capable of competing at the right end of the table.

 Wednesday at 22:03

End of.

Ok. My opinion is not my opinion because I have not taken the trouble of memorising everything you have ever posted. Possibly one of the weirder comments I have ever read on here but, hey, each to their own.

[Waconda]

54 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

I disagree with that

As do I.

[AppyDAZE]

Nigel should swallow his pride and give radio Bristol's Ian a shout.

"Ian? It's me Nigel.  I just want to pick your brains about a few things"

 

[Waconda]

5 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

But is it unfair of fans to believe that a new, ‘better’ manager can do better with the existing squad? We seem to be getting worse. 

Careful !!!

[Eddie Notgetinya]

Nobody can win a game with that centre midfield 

[Jefferz]

Am I asking for the earth

[Jefferz]

26 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

And replace with who. Someone who can guarantee to win every game. Give Nigel time to replace these players with his players, then you can start asking the question. So back to the lead question. No, No, not at the moment.

Well, You either commit to paying for quality replacements or you don’t. If the finances don’t allow for such investment, then we have to continue to develop the young  players even if it means doing it in league 1

Edited November 28, 2021 by Jefferz

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

I wonder if it is simply a case of not replacing the quality players that left: Webster, Browning, Cordova-Reid, Bryan, Kelly, Diedhiou, etc. The squad is palpably weaker and NP’s argument that the big, flabby squad with too many injuries had to be slimmed down hasn’t paid off. (It may have been a spin from the top to cover the cut in the wage bill)

Cardiff City did not replace quality players that left with similar consequences 

Needs to be done, FFP- operating losses etc etc.

Could we have recruited better? Yes. Could we have got more out of what we did recruit- also yes in varied cases IMO.

Cardiff are also heading towards a downward trajectory FFP wise, or have been.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red_Alligator]

Still a "No" from me. 

[davidoldfart]

Do worse than calling Chris Honor or Gary Owers for outside observations ..and input

 

[Bar BS3]

39 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

Who would come to City and do any better?

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

It's not A defeat - it's ANOTHER defeat. 

It's not A bad performance - it's ANOTHER bad performance. 

It's not A list of embarrassing match statistics - it's ANOTHER list of embarrassing match statistics.

How anyone can justifiably argue in Nigel Pearson's favour at the moment baffles me!

We are aimless, clueless and only through very good fortune not looking back on even worse results. 

I can't recall us being unlucky/undeserving of any results that have gone against us, yet there's a very good chance that the (few) points we've managed recently, will be deemed a travesty by pretty much any other team that we've taken them against. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's now over 8 months since Nige took on the "project" . According to many, the problem is entirely with the squad and not the coaching. I disagree.  Nigel has made it very clear what he wants from the players and has very publicly stated that he'll get rid of those who dont buy into what he's trying to do .... which seems like just about everyone. 

Thoughts anyone? 

My thoughts are that the first few months of the projects were actually planning the next few years.

If you look at things purely in terms of what happens on the pitch, you are missing a lot of other stuff going on.

Results aren’t great, performances are very mixed.

But he’s had one summer, one window, a period when he had to jettison a lot of the squad for no money, cut costs significantly whilst trying to get a team together capable of starting the build.  He has that when enough players are fit.

You can’t define a team / result / performance with a midfield of Bakinson, Massengo and Benarous.  As well we did in 2 games last week to get through it and take 4 points, it was always gonna be tough without any of King, James and Williams.  Could’ve easily been zero points, so let’s give a bit of credit for the week overall, even if today was a big disappointment.

I do think there is a huge lack of patience.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to individual results and performances.  We are at the phase of a rebuild where we will probably have our weakest squad and this phase will be out most inconsistent.  Some of that inconsistency is in the range of poor to average.  I don’t think we will see many games this season where you think City were top class, win comfortably.  It’s gonna be a hard watch.

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

[mikep]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My thoughts are that the first few months of the projects were actually planning the next few years.

If you look at things purely in terms of what happens on the pitch, you are missing a lot of other stuff going on.

Results aren’t great, performances are very mixed.

But he’s had one summer, one window, a period when he had to jettison a lot of the squad for no money, cut costs significantly whilst trying to get a team together capable of starting the build.  He has that when enough players are fit.

You can’t define a team / result / performance with a midfield of Bakinson, Massengo and Benarous.  As well we did in 2 games last week to get through it and take 4 points, it was always gonna be tough without any of King, James and Williams.  Could’ve easily been zero points, so let’s give a bit of credit for the week overall, even if today was a big disappointment.

I do think there is a huge lack of patience.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to individual results and performances.  We are at the phase of a rebuild where we will probably have our weakest squad and this phase will be out most inconsistent.  Some of that inconsistency is in the range of poor to average.  I don’t think we will see many games this season where you think City were top class, win comfortably.  It’s gonna be a hard watch.

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

I am impatient for us to have some success and admit that I do sometimes have my rose tinted specs on but, surely by now, we would expect to see an improvement in passing the ball, movement off the ball etc, etc. As lots have mentioned before, we just can't get the basics right. When we do, I am sure an improvement will be seen.

[bcfcnick]

I like Pearson's approach to getting a unified Club and team spirit.  I just don't like or comprehend the style of football he and the coaching staff are asking the team to play.  All the topsides in the Championship play a possession based game and we have the players who are better suited to that style.  Clearing the ball upfield in the general direction (at best) to the ever willing but sluggish  Martin creates zero chances and results in an instant loss of possession nearly every time. 

As I say, I like Pearson general approach and man management, but ultimately it's about what happens on the field in terms of both style and results.   We don't  have a clear answer on the type of football Nige wants to play and for a long time I've felt that the Club should have a clear pattern of possession based play that is replicated right through the academy levels and into the first team.  City has also always had a tradition of playing good football with pacy wingers.  We haven't seen that for some time now.  Maybe we will play some better football and bring in better players if the manager is given time but, won or lose, it's grim to watch and  doesn't suit the players we have either.   He bought in five players and would another five of the same quality transform things? I don't think so.

I want a manager who follows the Cloughy view ..."If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."  Even if we had the height of Croach or Kieffer Moore I still ouldn't want us to play in the style we currently use.  

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Most fans with any sense could see we would be wildly inconsistent this season. The problems go back four years . For all the SL lovers who fall at his feet, he’s culpable . He allowed Ashton full reins on everything football wise . Even his son had a pop when it was announced ashton was leaving . Saying along the lines of , it’s not a good thing to have one man in charge of everything. 
Pearson’s job is unenviable . He’s got the SOD job of sorting this mess out , ironically both caused by Ashton. The decks need clearing . There are plenty of players that imo are not good enough but pearson has his hands tied.

For all those wanting Pearson out , just think. Who would come in & what would or could they do with this current squad to change things. It’s very easy & lazy to blame the manager. 
look at our midfield today , the area of the pitch that wins & loses every football match . So inexperienced it’s unreal. People slagging off Bakinson but no mention of massengo . Very undisciplined today but he’s 20 , along with a 18 year old . Would we  have been so poor with james & williams in there . The answers no.

….and just to add, the cost cutting didn’t end in the summer.  Not sure there would be many takers with the conditions imposed.

And today is not a game to call out individuals.  I thought we were poor from keeper through to forwards. Bentley summed up today with two horrendous throws out, one led to their second goal.  

[Redrascal2]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My thoughts are that the first few months of the projects were actually planning the next few years.

If you look at things purely in terms of what happens on the pitch, you are missing a lot of other stuff going on.

Results aren’t great, performances are very mixed.

But he’s had one summer, one window, a period when he had to jettison a lot of the squad for no money, cut costs significantly whilst trying to get a team together capable of starting the build.  He has that when enough players are fit.

You can’t define a team / result / performance with a midfield of Bakinson, Massengo and Benarous.  As well we did in 2 games last week to get through it and take 4 points, it was always gonna be tough without any of King, James and Williams.  Could’ve easily been zero points, so let’s give a bit of credit for the week overall, even if today was a big disappointment.

I do think there is a huge lack of patience.

I think there is a huge over-reaction to individual results and performances.  We are at the phase of a rebuild where we will probably have our weakest squad and this phase will be out most inconsistent.  Some of that inconsistency is in the range of poor to average.  I don’t think we will see many games this season where you think City were top class, win comfortably.  It’s gonna be a hard watch.

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points. Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable. And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing. Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed. 

[Jerseybean]

Not read this thread carefully but I’m in the camp that wants NP and his staff to be given the time and resources that are clearly required to transform my Club. 

Of the players he’s added I like James, Tanner, Atkinson and King, of the players he let go there are none I was sad to see go.

He has made very clear this is a task that will take time and I am 100% confident that he will turn things around - given time / resources. He has recently made clear that a number of players will be exiting ASAP.

Thankfully, unlike many other Clubs, we show great patience and understanding with our managers and I trust this will be again be the case.

Frustrating and poor we certainly are but I am certain that NP and his staff will change that. The priority this season is not to be relegated.

[054123]

1 hour ago, Jefferz said:

Am I asking for the earth

Absolutely not

Can you define ‘better’ though and what was your expected final position for City at the start of the season?

 

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Loosey Boy said:

I despair - we lose a game and all the negativity starts over again……anyone heard of “Rome wasn’t built in a day”? That’s where BCFC is right now.

Unless we look like we are going down, SL will quite rightly stick with Nige……as others have said, we need to get rid of those who aren’t good enough/don’t want to be here, allowing Nige to bring in his own players before we truly judge him.

Who would come to City and do any better?

I for one, remain firmly behind the most experienced manager we’ve had in a long, long time

COYRs

Out of likes but spot on mate! 

 

[054123]

9 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points. Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable. And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing. Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed. 

Did you expect that every week?

It’s difficult to judge what goes on with players as I’m not involved in any way shape or form with the team or it’s coaches .

Ive seen some good things about us and if our thread bare would have been injury free I’m sure I would have seen it more often. Like Holden’s torrid time, it’s not been perfect this year with injuries either.

It is starting to amuse me how all people want is ‘just to’:

1) Compete physically every week

2) Win the majority of their tackles or one on ones

3) Have more shots and more shots on target

4) Complete a higher percentage of passes

5) Restrict the opposition to fewer chances and shots on targets

6) have a similar or higher possession percentage than the opponent 

Results aren’t important if I could just see this ‘progress’

Staying up this year would be an achievement, that’s what I thought in the summer.

Edited November 28, 2021 by 054123

[marmite]

I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

[tin]

Not for the first time since the summer, I still think we’ll finish in the bottom eight. The caveat in that is if SL lets Nige spend a decent amount of cash in January, which I don’t think he will. 

Someone said the other week, perhaps @Numero Uno , that with a fit Williams, we stay up easily. Without Williams, we’ll struggle. I think that’s bang on the money with the current squad. 

Bakinson — as our most experienced midfielder today — was an absolute joke. It was like playing with 10 men against a good side struggling in confidence. We need players like that to show some responsibility and stamp their authority on games like today’s, not go into their shell and refuse to pull their weight. That’s unacceptable IMO.

[054123]

1 minute ago, marmite said:

I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

It is baffling isn’t it mate? but maybe that’s how it is with teams who are going to finish below 15th? Maybe you only end with 58 points because you just aren’t consistent?

Look at Gary Johnson’s team from 07/08, on paper not a brilliant team but god they fought very consistently and as such were rewarded with the play-offs.

If at the start of the season you thought we’d finish 15th or below then by definition inconsistency will be one of the traits.

[MattWSM]

2 hours ago, WECANDO said:

A forward with pace would be a good start.

I think the issue is only in Midfield. An all rounder who can create and break up play who reads the game well, get that player we will create more good chances rather than the odd half chance, championship strikers need half a dozen fairly good chances per game to score 1. Will breathe confidence through the whole team. Our young midfield players will really benefit.

Rest of positions we are okish and good enough for mid/top half

[Bris Red]

People can call out the players all they want and I wouldn’t disagree that they need to do a lot more but christ almighty after what is coming up to almost a year in charge i expected Pearson to have gotten a lot more out of what he has had at his disposal.

We look so poor all over the pitch, defensively more often than not we look all over the place and imo that is a direct reflection on the coaching or rather lack of it of Pearsons staff.
 

 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Very good post but the issue for me is not that I'm expecting miracles or quick solutions to long standing problems. But I did expect a Pearson team to be motivated

that comes from changing the culture.  These things don’t happen overnight.  It’s why he introduced James and King, but he still has some way to go to effect this change.  Today probably typified it….slow start / poor start, just can’t overcome it, not the fibre to turn it around.

and make the opposition at least have to work hard for the points.

we’ve seen how important just one or two players can be to that dynamic. And when they aren’t playing it shows.

Beaten due to inexperience or quality of player or tactically. But beaten due to lack of determination and fight I do not think is acceptable.

yep, But that’s down to the players you have.  How many are genuine leaders?  It’s not just about tub-thumping, but the good teams have several of them.  They self police the performance levels.

And clearly Pearson has proven consistently incapable of putting out a team each week that can compete or even show an interest in competing.

I think Nige has admitted he doesn’t know what type of performance he’s gonna get.  It’s not just a few players being inconsistent, it’s different players, different weeks.

Tough game away on a snowy day in Sheffield and our lot weren't interested. Not acceptable from Pearson and if you cannot get your team motivated and playing with pride then it doesn't seem to matter who you sign. He has failed.

maybe the players were motivated, found the going a bit tougher than expected and then retreated into their shells?

 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, MattWSM said:

I think the issue is only in Midfield. An all rounder who can create and break up play who reads the game well, get that player we will create more good chances rather than the odd half chance, championship strikers need half a dozen fairly good chances per game to score 1. Will breathe confidence through the whole team. Our young midfield players will really benefit.

Rest of positions we are okish and good enough for mid/top half

You’ve just described Joe Williams.

[054123]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

It's not A defeat - it's ANOTHER defeat. 

It's not A bad performance - it's ANOTHER bad performance. 

It's not A list of embarrassing match statistics - it's ANOTHER list of embarrassing match statistics.

I know you love city and just want us to do well, me too, so I’m not looking to be awkward but any team that finishes 15th or lower is going to have multiple these.

I agree that if it were a Johnson season where we should be finishing top 6, then it would unacceptable. For me I just thought we needed to stay up this year and by definition it meant the majority of games would be a struggle.

[LondonBristolian]

13 minutes ago, marmite said:

I just can't fathom why the team that fought tooth and nail for every ball against Stoke on Wednesday were so submissive today.  Don't anyone dare tell me that the players were tired. They are paid to play football and playing 3 times a week is not uncommon.  They have just had an International break . Something is wrong here at our club and it could cost us if its not resolved soon.

I think the answer is simple. Wednesday we had Williams and today we did not. We have an unbalanced squad and our overly reliant on certain players. We don’t have Williams and we don’t have James or King either. Benarous needs experienced heads around him, Bakinson only performs when the midfield has structure and Massengo does not have Williams’ positional discipline. Meaning that - as decent a player as Massengo is -  a midfield of Massengo, Bakinson and Benarous works far worse than one of Williams, Bakinson and Benarous.

[MattWSM]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve just described Joe Williams.

No I don't think he is the answer. 

It's a Brownhill type

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve just described Joe Williams.

Snap.

[BigAl&Toby]

3 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

It's now over 8 months since Nige took on the "project" . According to many, the problem is entirely with the squad and not the coaching. I disagree.  Nigel has made it very clear what he wants from the players and has very publicly stated that he'll get rid of those who dont buy into what he's trying to do .... which seems like just about everyone. 

Thoughts anyone? 

Didn’t watch or listen to it although yesterday I was contemplating another trip to Sheffield.

Instead I planted some tulips, checked in on my autumn sown broad beans, onions and garlic, walked the dogs and made a trip to Thornbury to get a double glazed unit for the bespoke potting shed I’m planning. All in all a ******* good day.

Nigel needs to stay. We’re now reaping what we’ve sown over the past 20 years. When we had some potential and impetus we ****** up and went backwards.

Then as a statement of intent and off the back of Tammy and some profit on player sales Big Steve got the chequebook out. And spunked millions up the wall.

We have KP who can shag anyone’s wife he’s loved so much. And **** me he looked good in that suit at Ashton Court.

We have little Jay who has a song about him that everyone loves to sing along to. Even when the ball sails over his head… 

And we have Captain Kallas and his ugly 4x4 Lamborghini. A rough, tough looking machine that must have cost a pretty penny. Kallas that is not his 4x4…..

Meanwhile Steve, Maggie and Jon are watching freehold values in BS3 increase daily. The Bears lose. The Robins lose. Like he gives a Flying Fox….

We need an ugly, uncompromising bastard to get us out of this Pula of shit.

I wonder though if the Lansdown Clan want that. Or if they’ll be content to let Nige wither on the vine.

So ship out the shit Nigel, play those like Scott, Benayrous, HNM and Williams who want to play and put the likes of Palmer et al to shame.

If we go down then we go down. Fighting. And the rest can leave and we go again. To quote Little Lee…..

[Hampshire reds]

having been to the game what a shambles we are. great to see young players but where the hell is kasey. should be in the squad especially with injuries. paying him good money for doing nothing. Lansdown get out your arm chair and make  a decision on your manager. also what is the project. go back to div one. 

[054123]

Just now, Hampshire reds said:

having been to the game what a shambles we are. great to see young players but where the hell is kasey. should be in the squad especially with injuries. paying him good money for doing nothing. Lansdown get out your arm chair and make  a decision on your manager. also what is the project. go back to div one. 

No FFP ramifications in league 1 (I think) seeing as the model of the previous 3 years will see us lose 50m in consecutive seasons.

Just saying

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

But the objective is to slowly improve.  But that won’t be a straight line.

 

I understand the need to rebuild and re-set . I knew that any improvement would not be linear given the depth of our squad and legacy issues.

I listen to NP's interviews and apart from the occasional almost spat-like sequence with an interviewer, I find him to talk more sense than several of his predecessors.

I made the point last season whilst he was caretaker that ,imo, he shouldn't be given the job until the very end of the season and I was definitely a minority voice. His record was W L L W D L L L D D L L L so 2 wins 3 draws and 9 losses. And a three year contract.

I don't think it could have got any worse so this season was always more likely to be an improvement This season he's played 23 matches and W7  D5 and L 11.  In the last 12 matches ( half the matches played) he has lost 7. This is where I have the problem about green shoots/improvement/right direction etc. I just dont see it when combined with performances which have been genuinely very poor and we've been incredibly fortunate not to have had a pasting from various teams courtesy of their bad finishing and not our resolute defending.

The record after over 8 months since Nige took over is Played 37 Lost 20 Drawn 8 and Won9 . If our performances showed that the players we have are giving their all for the shirt, team and Manager then I'd be less scathing. But the reality is that good moments of football are not in anything other than fleetingly brief periods and to my eyes  it's looking worse not better with relegation being a genuinely possible outcome. For this reason, I believe that unless there is an upturn in both points and performances then SL should cut his losses in December and bring in a new coach for the January window with the sole objective/brief to keep us in this division.

I think this is a reasoned argument albeit an unpopular one and not one that shrieks "Agenda" except to the many who perhaps dont have such a reasoned response as yourself. On that note thanks for you courteous, comprehensive and understandable reply.

[Tonks55]

If the question is ‘Pearson doing a good, even satisfactory , job?’ then I don’t think too many supporters would answer ‘Yes’.

If the question is ‘Should Pearson be replaced?’, then I don’t think as many would also say ‘Yes’. My opinion is ‘No’. Why? Because I don’t think the squad of players he has at his disposal are good enough for this division. Therefore I don’t believe any manager could bring about a change in fortune with the squad as it is.

If Pearson is given the funds to significantly strengthen the squad in the January window, but he still fails to bring about an improvement then by all means ‘sack him’. If he is not given the funds and the squad remains the same then it would not be fair to sack him (he might resign however!).

Sadly I see a parallel with 1980, when we failed to integrate younger players, preferring to rely on more experienced players (on long expensive contracts), which led to our bankruptcy, in 1982.  The exit of the Ashton Gate 8 meant that our youngsters had to ‘step up to the plate’ and perform, although if I remember correctly it still took a season or two, even flirting with going out of the league, before the bounce-back came.

In that spell, there will have been plenty of young players that had the talent to have made it to the top but did not have the character to thrive in a struggling team, and dropped out of football completely. This is the parallel that I fear – that many of the current, talented yet exposed young players will not make it as things stand, whereas in a different situation might go on to be top players.

The manager during our revival was Terry Cooper, who no doubt faced calls for his resignation on the downslide, but in hindsight was one of our best managers in the last 50 years!

So my opinion (and that is what it is!) is that Pearson should be given the time and funds to stabilise the teams performances, so that we can selectively develop the young talent we have (this also includes weeding out the young talent that may not have the mentality to survive). Pearson should not be given, for example £5m and put under pressure to ‘reach the playoffs’. His brief should be spend that money on experienced players that will ‘steady the ship’ and nurture the talent. After all £5m is a fraction of what it would cost to bring instant success.

[Swede]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

It's not A defeat - it's ANOTHER defeat. 

It's not A bad performance - it's ANOTHER bad performance. 

It's not A list of embarrassing match statistics - it's ANOTHER list of embarrassing match statistics.

How anyone can justifiably argue in Nigel Pearson's favour at the moment baffles me!

We are aimless, clueless and only through very good fortune not looking back on even worse results. 

I can't recall us being unlucky/undeserving of any results that have gone against us, yet there's a very good chance that the (few) points we've managed recently, will be deemed a travesty by pretty much any other team that we've taken them against. 

Yes; I would agree with everything you state. It's hard watching opposition having the better of most if not all games.

I think we were nose diving out of the Division last season and easily the worst team in the league hence the change in manager. We simply couldn't have gone on any further with the inexperienced Holden in charge.

With a new manager comes a new direction. Painful though it is but NP has arrested the slide. Maybe not quickly enough for some but a root and branch type review is exactly what was needed.

I think another bad result from another bad performance really just underlines the monumental mess we were left in from the previous regime.

It needs someone with an abrasive nature and strong will and "pearsonality" to pull us through. I do see improvement. We seem to have some endeavour and are trying to compete. Long term that's not enough but any improvement short term is welcome. 

I can't see any further improvement until Pearson can move more players on and get his players in. Can anybody else do a better job will always be the question? Especially with us struggling. I don't think anybody would know and I think that's more to do with the abject mess we were left in rather than Nigel Pearson. 

[054123]

2 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I understand the need to rebuild and re-set . I knew that any improvement would not be linear given the depth of our squad and legacy issues.

I listen to NP's interviews and apart from the occasional almost spat-like sequence with an interviewer, I find him to talk more sense than several of his predecessors.

I made the point last season whilst he was caretaker that ,imo, he shouldn't be given the job until the very end of the season and I was definitely a minority voice. His record was W L L W D L L L D D L L L so 2 wins 3 draws and 9 losses. And a three year contract.

I don't think it could have got any worse so this season was always more likely to be an improvement This season he's played 23 matches and W7  D5 and L 11.  In the last 12 matches ( half the matches played) he has lost 7. This is where I have the problem about green shoots/improvement/right direction etc. I just dont see it when combined with performances which have been genuinely very poor and we've been incredibly fortunate not to have had a pasting from various teams courtesy of their bad finishing and not our resolute defending.

The record after over 8 months since Nige took over is Played 37 Lost 20 Drawn 8 and Won9 . If our performances showed that the players we have are giving their all for the shirt, team and Manager then I'd be less scathing. But the reality is that good moments of football are not in anything other than fleetingly brief periods and to my eyes  it's looking worse not better with relegation being a genuinely possible outcome. For this reason, I believe that unless there is an upturn in both points and performances then SL should cut his losses in December and bring in a new coach for the January window with the sole objective/brief to keep us in this division.

I think this is a reasoned argument albeit an unpopular one and not one that shrieks "Agenda" except to the many who perhaps dont have such a reasoned response as yourself. On that note thanks for you courteous, comprehensive and understandable reply.

I don’t think you have an agenda. I think you have an opinion and try to make it. I think you just want city to succeed like we all do.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle at the moment.

I think we are hamstrung financially as a club which limits Steve Ls hand in both managerial and player decisions. We have created an awful FFP time bomb which I’m sure you’re aware of.

I personally don’t believe that it gets much better if at all, with another managerial change at this point.

My hope for this season was always that we stay up and i think we’ll do that. After that, I’m not sure. 

Im really concerned about FFP sanctions if we do not sell some players.

We gambled under Ashton and Johnson and like all gambled there’s a chance they don’t come off.

 

[swanker]

Pearson ain’t going nowhere. We lack quality players at the moment, everyone at the club knows that plus Pearson still wants to get rid of a few.

Dont panic, we’re witnessing a club in transition. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfcnick said:

All the topsides in the Championship play a possession based game and we have the players who are better suited to that style. 

Not saying you are wrong, but interested in how you’d construct the team / personnel to change us to play a passing game. I don’t think it’s just a case of picking the more technical players btw.

I’m not sure we have the players, but I’m happy to be open minded to what you come up with.

[Northern Red]

What I continue to struggle with is the posters who, on the one hand, claim to accept that this is a season of transition and that they'd be happy with a finishing position somewhere between 12th and 20th, yet on the other hand don't seem to be able to handle the fact that a team that finishes in that area of the table will lose a fair amount of matches, some of them heavily and with poor performances.