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Dean Holden on sounds of the City Monday night

Never to the dark side

By Never to the dark side
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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

Posted
Posted
 

Thanks for the heads up. Should be a really interesting listen. Am I right by saying this will be the first time we heard from him  about his time as Coach of Bristol City. 

He's not going to say much about it though is he. I'd be amazed if we got much more than "It was a difficult period. I'd like to have been given more time. Wish them well for the rest of the season, after Wednesday night obviously." (A "Ha, ha. Tweet your questions for Dean on twitter.." from Geoff Twentyman, who still hasn't realised the redundancy of the latter part of his tweeting instructions...)

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SuperDziek

SuperDziek

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He's not going to say much about it though is he. I'd be amazed if we got much more than "It was a difficult period. I'd like to have been given more time. Wish them well for the rest of the season, after Wednesday night obviously." (A "Ha, ha. Tweet your questions for Dean on twitter.." from Geoff Twentyman, who still hasn't realised the redundancy of the latter part of his tweeting instructions...)

Presumably any settlement agreement (assuming there was one! after his sacking would prevent him revealing too much?

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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

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1 hour ago, SuperDziek said:

Presumably any settlement agreement (assuming there was one! after his sacking would prevent him revealing too much?

I'd think any contract of employment would be written on the basis that anything you are involved in or learn about viz your employment would be internal/secret, or confidential, unless otherwise agreed. Being free from the contract of employment wouldn't give you any rights to disclose anything you learned whilst under it. Probably settlement agreements serve to enforce this by the way of simple immediate financial penalty - not that this would necessarily be the end of matters. So all but the terminally stupid probably know its in their interests to keep their mouths shut at least until the memoirs are written and no one give much of a damn about things.

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shahanshahan

shahanshahan

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8 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

assistant manager of our Wednesday nights opponenents

show starts at 6pm on radio bristol

Along with City fans Ellie  Jones and Lee Pole

 

 

Don't know how you got your information @Never to the dark side, but to inform everyone that I will be on the show as well!

 

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Red Skin

Red Skin

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5 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

He's not going to say much about it though is he. I'd be amazed if we got much more than "It was a difficult period. I'd like to have been given more time. Wish them well for the rest of the season, after Wednesday night obviously." (A "Ha, ha. Tweet your questions for Dean on twitter.." from Geoff Twentyman, who still hasn't realised the redundancy of the latter part of his tweeting instructions...)

I'm glad I'm not the only one this bugs!!  Why not phone in using your telephone, or send a letter using the royal mail delivery service, or come down to the BBC talk to us in person using your mouth? 

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sglosbcfc

sglosbcfc

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1 hour ago, Red Skin said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one this bugs!!  Why not phone in using your telephone, or send a letter using the royal mail delivery service, or come down to the BBC talk to us in person using your mouth? 

Imagine if it was done by letter and post, for some of the 'reactionaries' on here their letter would be 'redundant by the time it arrived. Following the Posh result they would be writing about how great the spirit it and how we have an outside chance of top six and the Pearson revolution is underway, by the time it arrived they'd be drafting another saying we need a young up and coming coach, the players are spineless and we're going down to league one ?

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sglosbcfc

sglosbcfc

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56 minutes ago, Will b11 said:

Just listened to it then , he sounds excited to come back on Wednesday, I hope we give him a good reception ! 

I would be amazed and disappointed if the guy didn't get a great reception. Part of the League Cup run to the semis, always great with the fans, had to deal with the worst injury list of any City manager ever and overcome horrendous personal circumstances to achieve in the game. I wouldn't care if I was stood on my own, he'll get applause from me when he enters pitchside.

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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

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Posted
2 hours ago, Red Skin said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one this bugs!!  Why not phone in using your telephone, or send a letter using the royal mail delivery service, or come down to the BBC talk to us in person using your mouth? 

Ha ha yeah, we're on the same page. I can't help it winding me up. I'm sat there thinking 'email using email, email using email.'

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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Chinos all round?

Deano's…Chinos…:chant6ez:

As long as we're leading by enough goals for chants not to backfire on us, I think a couple of rounds of 'Deano's chinos' would be awesome. Perhaps s82 can do the 'Deano's' and the Dolman/Rest of South Stand can do 'Chino's'. It would be doubly amazing if he happened to be wearing them.

Edited by Sleepy1968
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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

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28 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

As long as we're leading by enough goals for chants not to backfire on us, I think a couple of rounds of 'Deano's chinos' would be awesome. Perhaps s82 can do the 'Deano's' and the Dolman/Rest of South Stand can do 'Chino's'. It would be doubly amazing if he happened to be wearing them.

That'll be fab!

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Fammyfan

Fammyfan

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Posted

I hope he gets a decent reception.

In regards to his performance, it didn’t work out for him here. However, we’ve since learned that the problems lie deeper than previously thought, we had a horrendous injury list and it was his first role as manager.

Performances and results were not good enough, the guy gave his all but was out of his depth. Can’t blame him in going for the job, there were positive signs at the beginning.

He was part of the coaching setup that had us improving year on year and deserves a good reception.

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One Team

One Team

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Having just heard the interview I would recommend it, it’s a good listen. 

He speaks very highly of us and recalls all his time with us as you might expect as clearly there were some good times. I did think he was a bit deluded about his time as Head Coach but he came across as having a love for our club.

The bit I found most interesting is how people were advising him to look after himself when things started going bad, the inference being to divert blame; something he said he wanted to ignore due to the culture he wanted. 

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Waconda

Waconda

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8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Applaud him? What for?

He got well paid as an assistant coach. Why is it that so many ordinary coaches believe that they should keep on aiming for the top job and that they will be the next Alec Ferguson?

Their ego's tell them that a coach will make a good manager which rarely happens.

See the source image

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Robbored

Robbored

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2 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

'Walking in a Wilson wonderland' belted out in the closing minutes from memory 

Quite right to. Even Wilson himself doesn’t know why he was sacked during the summer when he was on holiday. That was probably SLs  biggest mistake…………:dunno:

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Porto Red

Porto Red

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11 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

As long as we're leading by enough goals for chants not to backfire on us, I think a couple of rounds of 'Deano's chinos' would be awesome. Perhaps s82 can do the 'Deano's' and the Dolman/Rest of South Stand can do 'Chino's'. It would be doubly amazing if he happened to be wearing them.

Who's going to tell him...?

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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5 hours ago, harrys said:

Tinnion was very bitter about it

It was pretty embarrassing.

I think a lot of us thought Tinnion was a strange appointment from day one (as he’d never been a coach or even a captain) but the revisionism over Wilson’s time with us was just ridiculous.

Tinnion was certainly right about one thing, he had 4 full seasons in charge & we were no further forward than when Wilson had arrived.

Contrast with how quickly John Ward, GJ & Cotts all turned it around & got us up (in their first full seasons).

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BrizzleRed

BrizzleRed

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7 minutes ago, Super said:

Wilson can never be forgiven for that shit show in the playoff final.

Exactly!

Never forgive him for having Leroy Lita scoring for fun in the reserves and he wasn’t even named in the squad for the Final.  We’d struggled to break Brighton down a short time before iirc and we were really lacking firepower, at the time. 

There was no way back for Wilson for me after that toothless showing in the Final.  At least when we played Hull, we gave it a go, but that Brighton game was inexcusable.

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

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7 hours ago, One Team said:

The bit I found most interesting is how people were advising him to look after himself when things started going bad, the inference being to divert blame; something he said he wanted to ignore due to the culture he wanted. 

The problem was the culture and environment created by Holden was just too...cosy. He unfortunately falls into the old stereotype of being a good no. 2 that gets on well with the players, but does not have that ruthless, or even mean streak that a confident, assertive manager and leader needs to be successful.

It even came across clearly in his interview last night, saying how he tried to lead by example, and naming all the "lovely" staff at the club. Sorry, but as manager of a Championship club you shouldn't be leading by example, you need to be a bit more dictatorial and take the reigns. Kick some arses and tear a strip of paint off the changing room walls as HT, if you need to.

He was Keith Millen mk II. Lovely, lovely bloke but not a no. 1. Huge mistake by SL that he couldn't see history repeating, when nearly everyone else could. 

It's surely no coincidence that the only success we've had in the last 20 years has been delivered by two men who were prepared to bang a few heads together if they needed - GJ and SC. They set standards and were winners.

Let's hope Pearson, who is a similar type, can also succeed given time.

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One Team

One Team

Posted
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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

It was pretty embarrassing.

I think a lot of us thought Tinnion was a strange appointment from day one (as he’d never been a coach or even a captain) but the revisionism over Wilson’s time with us was just ridiculous.

Tinnion was certainly right about one thing, he had 4 full seasons in charge & we were no further forward than when Wilson had arrived.

Contrast with how quickly John Ward, GJ & Cotts all turned it around & got us up (in their first full seasons).

Fantastic post and just how I see it. 

Apart from the LDV Final Wilson’s tenure was a failure and as a few have said on this thread the playoff final was unforgivable. 

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One Team

One Team

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9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The problem was the culture and environment created by Holden was just too...cosy. He unfortunately falls into the old stereotype of being a good no. 2 that gets on well with the players, but does not have that ruthless, or even mean streak that a confident, assertive manager and leader needs to be successful.

It even came across clearly in his interview last night, saying how he tried to lead by example, and naming all the "lovely" staff at the club. Sorry, but as manager of a Championship club you shouldn't be leading by example, you need to be a bit more dictatorial and take the reigns. Kick some arses and tear a strip of paint off the changing room walls as HT, if you need to.

He was Keith Millen mk II. Lovely, lovely bloke but not a no. 1. Huge mistake by SL that he couldn't see history repeating, when nearly everyone else could. 

It's surely no coincidence that the only success we've had in the last 20 years has been delivered by two men who were prepared to bang a few heads together if they needed - GJ and SC. They set standards and were winners.

Let's hope Pearson, who is a similar type, can also succeed given time.

Great post. 

It isn’t a coincidence at all that the only successful managers of the 20 years have been GJ and SC. Two uncompromising leaders who know how it’s done. 

It’s also no coincidence that SL failed on three occasions with the appointments of Tinnion, Millen and Holden. All decent men but poor football managers. 

Hopefully we’ve learnt something now and we can look forward positively with our current and any future appointments. 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The problem was the culture and environment created by Holden was just too...cosy. He unfortunately falls into the old stereotype of being a good no. 2 that gets on well with the players, but does not have that ruthless, or even mean streak that a confident, assertive manager and leader needs to be successful.

It even came across clearly in his interview last night, saying how he tried to lead by example, and naming all the "lovely" staff at the club. Sorry, but as manager of a Championship club you shouldn't be leading by example, you need to be a bit more dictatorial and take the reigns. Kick some arses and tear a strip of paint off the changing room walls as HT, if you need to.

He was Keith Millen mk II. Lovely, lovely bloke but not a no. 1. Huge mistake by SL that he couldn't see history repeating, when nearly everyone else could. 

It's surely no coincidence that the only success we've had in the last 20 years has been delivered by two men who were prepared to bang a few heads together if they needed - GJ and SC. They set standards and were winners.

Let's hope Pearson, who is a similar type, can also succeed given time.

 

100% this.

Most Winston Churchill quotes were never said by him, but one that was is "in war you don't have to be nice, you have to be right." That's true in management too.

You have to have the single-mindedness to let down, and perhaps let go, mates if they aren't performing. You can't just be everyone's friend. You lose your authority if you try to be that. You need a bit of distance.

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BrizzleRed

BrizzleRed

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3 minutes ago, One Team said:

Great post. 

It isn’t a coincidence at all that the only successful managers of the 20 years have been GJ and SC. Two uncompromising leaders who know how it’s done. 

It’s also no coincidence that SL failed on three occasions with the appointments of Tinnion, Millen and Holden. All decent men but poor football managers. 

Hopefully we’ve learnt something now and we can look forward positively with our current and any future appointments. 

Also makes you wonder if the biggest challenge NP may have been facing at this club could be a few players who were resisting their ‘cosy club’ being taken away.

It certainly felt at the end of last season that there were a few who seemed quite content to see us dropping like a stone and maybe hoped he’d get binned.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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23 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Also makes you wonder if the biggest challenge NP may have been facing at this club could be a few players who were resisting their ‘cosy club’ being taken away.

It certainly felt at the end of last season that there were a few who seemed quite content to see us dropping like a stone and maybe hoped he’d get binned.

In a nutshell for me.  And vital that the talented youngsters get steered in the right direction by players who’ve won things.  We might not see Simpson (for example) shining on the pitch but if he’s passing on his nous and professionalism to Tanner then that’s a big plus.

Its not ideal to have a squad on u23s and 30-pluses (with very little in between), but I did like some of the “don’t you kick our kids” big-brother stuff on Saturday.  There was a sense of “all in it together”, and I think Baker and Williams aggressive intensity rubbed off on players like O’Dowda too, not just the young’uns.  Quite refreshing to see a normally physical Blackburn team, bleating at the ref, not us.

Hopefully not a one-off.

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glynriley

glynriley

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In a nutshell for me.  And vital that the talented youngsters get steered in the right direction by players who’ve won things.  We might not see Simpson (for example) shining on the pitch but if he’s passing on his nous and professionalism to Tanner then that’s a big plus.

Its not ideal to have a squad on u23s and 30-pluses (with very little in between), but I did like some of the “don’t you kick our kids” big-brother stuff on Saturday.  There was a sense of “all in it together”, and I think Baker and Williams aggressive intensity rubbed off on players like O’Dowda too, not just the young’uns.  Quite refreshing to see a normally physical Blackburn team, bleating at the ref, not us.

Hopefully not a one-off.

I'll be interested to see a midfield of Williams, James and King at some point. Can't see too many teams taking liberties with those 3.

Edited by glynriley
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BrizzleRed

BrizzleRed

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21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In a nutshell for me.  And vital that the talented youngsters get steered in the right direction by players who’ve won things.  We might not see Simpson (for example) shining on the pitch but if he’s passing on his nous and professionalism to Tanner then that’s a big plus.

Its not ideal to have a squad on u23s and 30-pluses (with very little in between), but I did like some of the “don’t you kick our kids” big-brother stuff on Saturday.  There was a sense of “all in it together”, and I think Baker and Williams aggressive intensity rubbed off on players like O’Dowda too, not just the young’uns.  Quite refreshing to see a normally physical Blackburn team, bleating at the ref, not us.

Hopefully not a one-off.

Completely with you there and that extra physicality on Saturday was probably the biggest plus for me.  I think people questioning why these older players were brought in need to look back at this game to get their answer.

It was great that Mobray described us as being ‘physical’ ….. talk about the pot calling the kettle black!  It certainly isn’t a term we’ve heard describing City for a very long time!

Its so refreshing to see our players giving as good as they get for a change, rather than just rolling over or hiding.  That’s definitely something to build on and let’s just hope NP has now decided on the nucleus of his squad going forward.  

For the first in quite a while, I really feel optimistic that we’ll finish the season comfortably, after being in freefall lately.

as to whether this was a one-off, we don’t have long to wait, as we’ll need more of that again tomorrow for sure. ?

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Port Said Red

Port Said Red

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Posted
9 hours ago, Robbored said:

Quite right to. Even Wilson himself doesn’t know why he was sacked during the summer when he was on holiday. That was probably SLs  biggest mistake…………:dunno:

We were at the end of year 4 of a 3 year plan, he had tried exciting attacking football and fell at the last hurdle. He then switched to ultra defensive mode, using two full backs in midfield for a long period, from memory, and then fell at the last hurdle again. He had run out of ideas and it showed, the drinking culture in the club was well known and the fact he still lived in the Sheffield area meant he had a lack of control over that. If he doesn't know why he was given the boot he also must have been very far away from the thinking within the club at the time.

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Super

Super

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Posted
50 minutes ago, glynriley said:

I'll be interested to see a midfield of Williams, James and King at some point. Can't see too many teams taking liberties with those 3.

Problem with that midfield is it lacks energy. Williams and James with HNM would be better imo.

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chinapig

chinapig

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1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

We were at the end of year 4 of a 3 year plan, he had tried exciting attacking football and fell at the last hurdle. He then switched to ultra defensive mode, using two full backs in midfield for a long period, from memory, and then fell at the last hurdle again. He had run out of ideas and it showed, the drinking culture in the club was well known and the fact he still lived in the Sheffield area meant he had a lack of control over that. If he doesn't know why he was given the boot he also must have been very far away from the thinking within the club at the time.

He had spent lots of money but failed to win promotion. As a consequence he was told the budget had to be cut but didn't accept that.

Of course subsequently a certain Conference manager won promotion on a shoestring with a squad that on paper was weaker than Wilson's.

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Robbored

Robbored

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18 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He had spent lots of money but failed to win promotion. As a consequence he was told the budget had to be cut but didn't accept 

DW didn’t mention that when he took part in an interview on one of the City podcasts. 

For me Wilson provided the most attacking and exiting football in years and we’ve not seen anything as thrilling since.

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chinapig

chinapig

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12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

DW didn’t mention that when he took part in an interview on one of the City podcasts. 

For me Wilson provided the most attacking and exiting football in years and we’ve not seen anything as thrilling since.

Of course he didn't but it was reported at the time. Also that he would have to reduce the coaching staff.

Fine if you want to be entertained in the third division for years perhaps but JW, GJ and SC all outperformed him.

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Robbored

Robbored

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7 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Fine if you want to be entertained in the third division for years perhaps but JW, GJ and SC all outperformed him.

I boils down to one question - would you prefer to watch exiting and entertaining football week on week or dull and turgid one dimensional play and watching the grass grow?

I know what I prefer.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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53 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I boils down to one question - would you prefer to watch exiting and entertaining football week on week or dull and turgid one dimensional play and watching the grass grow?

I know what I prefer.

We’re you not entertained by Cotts?

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Robbored

Robbored

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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Hard to be more consistent than virtually every week in 14/15? ??‍♂️

Wilson was at City 2000-2004 and certainly the last two seasons were a really entertaining. The likes of Tinnion, Murray, Peacock, Bell et al were a joy to watch. 

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