This club has no business in the Championship

[Jefferz]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

See the doom merchants are back again then after Wednesday! Pathetic   

 

Yeah but come on. We really didn’t deserve to win on Wednesday. Outplayed for most of the game

[Jefferz]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Sending him to Rovers would have been a tad too much.

Thought we went up to the First Division in the 70s

[Bazooka Joe]

3 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

Thought we went up to the First Division in the 70s

Too cryptic for me.

Explain.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The issue for me personally is how many years of totally shite football do you take before you stop giving unconditional support. The owner talks about his legacy, he’s a ******* bullshitter.

26 years in my case, sometimes it takes a while till the scales fall from your eyes, while I will always have an interest and passion for the club age and experience has taught me the hard way whether it be cursed or badly run the last time we were in the top flight I was 24, within 4 months I collect my state pension , I rest my case. 

[Jefferz]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Too cryptic for me.

Explain.

Alan Dicks

[2015]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

The Owner has totally ruined the football watching and supporting experience at the Gate and the cheeky little bastard tells us we got it wrong on Teflon. Then he builds a “High Performance Centre”, he’s taking the piss and hey, it’s his money, his club nobody else’s. I actually feel sorry for Pearson and if I was him with his health being as it’s been I would **** off and let someone else take us down (as it stands subject to January incoming) I think.

Exactly, all we are is just the paying plebs who aren't allowed to have a negative opinion on anything regarding how the club operates, at the top and regarding performances on the pitch it seems a lot of the fans have accepted mediocrity for too long.

I feel sorry for Pearson. He inherited a poor squad and we still have a pretty poor squad. 

[Jefferz]

4 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

Alan Dicks

Sorry, I lost track of thread. I was responding to the opinion that things were equally as bad in the 60s and 70s. I added that we went up on the 70s

[RedM]

1 hour ago, dREDful said:

And the passing has been a theme since the final 12 months of LJ's reign. Basic football coaching left this club under his stewardship. Criminal. 

But I'm not seeing much difference between Lee's final floundering few months and Nigel's bright new era. Where was the new manager uplift, new ideas etc. Nigel has been no more hit with injuries than Lee was. I'm staggered Nigel hasn't been able to get more out of them. 

[Tin Soldier]

Easy to over react 9n here after another pile of shite display.

Think it would be good if NP would step upstairs at end of season and new coach role will be developed for someone new to step in. Quite frankly, we have looked a shambles for some time as a club.

Leaves me wondering if SL should sell up TBH.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

As someone who was over the moon with Pearson being appointed ….I’ll be one of the first to admit he has to go . 
 

Almost a year in charge and where as I appreciate things take time, we should be seeing some progress by now . Absolutely nothing has changed .

Simply not good enough 

Loads has changed.  Things take time.

Today was poor, last Wednesday and last Saturday were better weren’t they?  We are gonna have inconsistent performances.  We shouldn’t have to see performances like today, but in the cycle of change we are in, it’s exactly what you are gonna see.  We took 4 points from 3 games, 3 tough games.  Vital points.

 

[Glen hump]

51 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

A football fan is never happy.   Even Brighton fans booing yesterday and they were 8th in the prem 

either sit on and enjoy the rollercoaster or get the hell off and don’t experience the highs and lows 

I’ve been patiently waiting for the highs for 35 years.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Boring team to watch, not worth paying for imo. 

[Bazooka Joe]

 

1 hour ago, Bobby kellard hero said:

I’m glad you lot weren’t probably around watching city in the late 60’s early 70’s.You would have had Alan Dicks hung drawn and quartered.

Sending him to Rovers would have been a tad too much.

10 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

Thought we went up to the First Division in the 70s

6 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Too cryptic for me.

Explain.

 

2 minutes ago, Jefferz said:

Alan Dicks

Nope, that doesn't help. 

I've copied and pasted the whole dialogue.

You do realise I was joshing about fans sending Alan Dicks to Rovers and am fully aware of how revered he is/was. Other people seem to understand this.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, MATT BCFC said:

I watched the first half and got to say it was so embarrassing I decided not to bother with the second half. 

We had 3 player booked for basically time wasting at 0-0 in the first half against a side a couple of places above us.

We don't seem to practice any patterns of play in terms of when we have possession. Tactic just seems to be get the ball in the box quickly and be a threat at set plays. 

The football is just so negative and boring. It's also outdated now as well. I was willing to give Pearson time but it's got to the point that I don't even want to watch us play anymore.

 

 

 

 

They weren’t time wasting per se….they were doing what every team at this level does, and that’s stopping the other team taking a a quick set play before they are set.

Unfortunately, along with mask wearing in shops and on public transport announced yesterday, the sub-titles of Geoff “Homer” Eltringham’s tv also said he should actually follow the laws of the games re kicking it away.  Every effing week players fo and they get away with it.  No surprise a terrible Championship ref like Eltringham decided to start apply the rules in favour of the ex-PL then bottled sending off Morgan Gibbs-White when he went to give him a yellow, and realised he’d already shown him one earlier.

The ref isn’t the reason for today mind you.  Just commenting on the time wasting bit.

[cidercity1987]

Yes we are probably currently on par with midtable L1 teams. I cannot imagine us easily beating the likes of Portsmouth, Sheff Wed or Ipswich for example.

Fortunately though whilst Peterborough, Barnsley etc would have more than us in L1, at this level we will stay in more games than them and sneak enough wins to be safe. The football is shocking but everyone surely expected this as a poor season in the rebuild cycle.

I am optimistic next season will be better with Pearson

[oldstandrobin]

1 hour ago, Desso said:

The tea lady could do better.

Available from Lyons Tea Shop at a s(nip)   For you older supporters 

[lenred]

57 minutes ago, Whale Eye Beef Hooked said:

A football fan is never happy.   Even Brighton fans booing yesterday and they were 8th in the prem 

either sit on and enjoy the rollercoaster or get the hell off and don’t experience the highs and lows 

I was shocked at that tbh. Potter was rightly livid as it’s a pathetic response for where they are. Football is well and truly broken with instances like this.  

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Disagree with that. I think we could easily have gone down that season had we kept Cotts

True we could’ve gone down, we could’ve stayed up though. Would’ve been nice to have seen him afforded Tomlin, Odemwingie, Pearce, etc to add to what he had.  Tomlin must’ve been him (Cotts) and Burt starting the ball rolling, surely?

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, RedM said:

But I'm not seeing much difference between Lee's final floundering few months and Nigel's bright new era. Where was the new manager uplift, new ideas etc. Nigel has been no more hit with injuries than Lee was. I'm staggered Nigel hasn't been able to get more out of them. 

Millions of pounds in backing is the difference.

Relative to squad size Lee never had issues filling the 18 (apart from Man Utd funnily enough)….Holden and Nige have had issues with that.

[maxjak]

I am not offering a solution.........if only i could?   But I am beginning to seriously wonder if Nige is up to the job?   Purely an observation, after today's abject performance, which was a really poor set up.  While I appreciate the lack of depth, the available resources were not utilised as well as they could have been?   So Do we stick or twist?

[RumRed]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

That'll upset a few on here.

What drivel.

[RedM]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Millions of pounds in backing is the difference.

Relative to squad size Lee never had issues filling the 18 (apart from Man Utd funnily enough)….Holden and Nige have had issues with that.

I get that, and agree to a certain extent but it's hard to explain but where we find ourselves, our style of play and identity can't be all about money. We have youngsters on the whole producing more than our much higher paid senior pros. But the youngsters need help and guidance that they don't seem to be getting during the game. We just don't seem to be a team at the moment, just lots of individuals who are either looking disinterested, unmotivated or being greedy and almost negatively trying too hard.

I can't really explain what I mean, but money can't be the complete solution as we have purchased players and had them turn to dross pretty quickly. 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

In answer to the thread title "This club has no business in the Championship" I disagree. City were promoted here on merit with Cotts at the helm. City were rightfully a Championship Club.....not a particularly good one at present, but nonetheless, by hook or by crook, still a Championship Club, and one that is likely to be so at the start on next season. I read Nige's comments about not wanting luxury players, so we can all make solid guesses at who he would like to ship out. Any imports he makes are likely to be grafters (and that is what he wants).

The January transfer window will tell many tales....and Nige's future in BS3 may well depend on it

[054123]

3 hours ago, dREDful said:

Utterly pathetic performance from a bunch of gutless and incapable footballers. 

This side wouldn't challenge for the playoffs in League One and that's the shocking reality of where we are. 

I think you’re just pissed off with today but that’s understandable.

Ultimately three teams won’t deserve to be in this league and I don’t think we will be one of them.

People talk about Pearson getting a ‘tune’ out of this team, that tune is simply staying up as I think many agreed at the start of the season.

I really hope everyone has read @Davefevs  4 part mini epic on where we are as a club, how we got here and what the future holds. Quite simply we have to 50m loss seasons, including the 12m cut in the summer!Unless Jamie Paterson was willing to take a pay cut why would he sign another contract? I don’t blame him or Pearson for that.

The future ramifications of this under FFP should not be ignored.

I really enjoyed the Blackburn game and it was great to grind out a result against Stoke.

These are the good times this season as I’m afraid the bad times will be superior in number (just like any club that finishes 15th or lower) if they weren’t we’d be a really good team and that isn’t the case. It’s not difficult is it?

Lastly, progress. When people talk about it they always protect themselves by saying ‘we don’t mind about the result, we just want to see some progress’. Well sadly the two often go hand in hand. If your team genuinely ‘progressed’ every week, by definition they would finish the season as one of the best teams.

Maybe I’ve mellowed in my old age, but I’ve seen us take 4 points at home against good teams and look shite and lose today.

That’s exactly where I expect this team to be.

Edited November 28, 2021 by 054123

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

That’s probably not a million miles out in reality but from a personal perspective I want to see at least a couple of wasters moved on or at least attempted to be moved on. If Nige is either not afforded that luxury or is not prepared to do that then I have to question why bother?

Well as far as I can tell he might be able to move some on but we will still be paying for them because those players aren't going to get the same as what we are already paying them (by a long way). 2 things - it's not going to clear enough headroom to bring in the quality we need and I'm not sure I like the idea of us paying Wells to score against us for QPR. So the other perspective of why bother I guess.

FWIW I don't think Nige will be afforded that luxury (we don't have room for luxuries) but I think Nige would be more than prepared if he could its just that financial rules (FFP) constrain him.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I am not offering a solution.........if only i could?   But I am beginning to seriously wonder if Nige is up to the job?   Purely an observation, after today's abject performance, which was a really poor set up.  While I appreciate the lack of depth, the available resources were not utilised as well as they could have been?   So Do we stick or twist?

I know neither you or I pick the team, but what would you have done in your pre-game set up / decision making differently to what Nige did, bearing in mind we’d just come off a 4 point / 2 game “run”?

18 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I think you’re just pissed off with today but that’s understandable.

Ultimately three teams won’t deserve to be in this league and I don’t think we will be one of them.

People talk about Pearson getting a ‘tune’ out of this team, that tune is simply staying up as I think many agreed at the start of the season.

I really hope everyone has read @Davefevs  4 part mini epic on where we are as a club, how we got here and what the future holds. Unless Jamie Paterson was willing to take a pay cut why would he sign another contract? I don’t blame him or Pearson for that.

I really enjoyed the Blackburn game and it was great to grind out a result against Stoke.

These are the good times this season as I’m afraid the bad times will be superior in number (just like any club that finishes 15th or lower) if they weren’t we’d be a really good team and that isn’t the case. It’s not difficult is it?

Lastly, progress. When people talk about it they always protect themselves by saying ‘we don’t mind about the result, we just want to see some progress’. Well sadly the two often go hand in hand. If your team genuinely ‘progressed’ every week, by definition they would finish the season as one of the best teams.

Maybe I’ve mellowed in my old age, but I’ve seen us take 4 points at home against good teams and look shite and lose today.

That’s exactly where I expect this team to be.

Good post.

I said way back in August that if posters wants to react to an individual game, there are gonna be a lot of negative posts this season.

In our match day 18 today there was one senior player not selected who was available….Palmer.

Certainly it’s possible to be critical of Nige and say his “trimmer squad” plan has backfired.  Or ask yourself, is he just saying that to cover up the lack of money available, and actually it’s kinda forced on him….he actually can’t afford a bigger squad.

[AshtonGreat]

3 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

288 passes 175 of those completed 60% so basically every other pass goes to the other team or out of play . There is the problem. They had 521 and 417 completed. Can't pass won't pass. 

Amazing to think some of these clowns are on 15 or 20 grand a week

[RedM]

9 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Bakinson , HNM and AB were the midfield . In 3 seasons time that might be ok . But not now . If you are missing Williams , James and to an extent King you are missing some very important players for the shape and functioning of the team . I really don’t understand what some fans are expecting . 

That's it. I'm not expecting too much from them, more that they need help. If they can't have the help from other midfielders due to them all being injured they need the senior pros to step up and guide them or take the pressure off them by upping their own game. And I'm disappointed with their level of application and that Nigel isn't able to drive that home to them, or doesn't appear to be able too.

The more senior players and the management/coaching staff aren't free from criticism

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, Desso said:

The tea lady could do better.

It's getting ridiculous now....

No way are we getting a new tea lady in as well - 

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Sending him to Rovers would have been a tad too much.

Wear that rag, or disembowelment & there's no choice

[richyy66]

4 hours ago, Snufflelufagus said:

288 passes 175 of those completed 60% so basically every other pass goes to the other team or out of play . There is the problem. They had 521 and 417 completed. Can't pass won't pass. 

We dont seem capable of stringing 3 passes together. Seem to make the opposition ping the ball around like Barcelona.

Too many players just dip their toe in and not even attempt to challenge/tackle an opposition player. We seem to be so weak all over the pitch.

I get we are hampered by injuries but these were the same players that put in a shift against Stoke. Confused as they just seem to turn up for games and not others. Is this down to players or Manager. - So frustrating watching us over the last couple of seasons...

[Tin Soldier]

There will be loads more games like today. Get used to it. The club is going through a massive change. Relegation may happen (I hope not), but this club will take years to rebuild. Just glad I didn’t take out a season ticket this season.

[westex red]

5 hours ago, Desso said:

The tea lady could do better.

Not sure who our tea lady is, however she get's lot's of mentions on lot's of posts, maybe she should get a chance!

[Maesknoll Red]

53 minutes ago, richyy66 said:

We dont seem capable of stringing 3 passes together. Seem to make the opposition ping the ball around like Barcelona.

Too many players just dip their toe in and not even attempt to challenge/tackle an opposition player. We seem to be so weak all over the pitch.

I get we are hampered by injuries but these were the same players that put in a shift against Stoke. Confused as they just seem to turn up for games and not others. Is this down to players or Manager. - So frustrating watching us over the last couple of seasons...

Players that can turn up and put in a performance in every game are in the Prem.  The lower down the leagues, the more inconsistent performances, but we do seem to be able to pick them…….

[redsquirrel]

why cant weimann step in for williams,hes experienced enough to know the game, is in favour and couldnt do any worse than tb today. semenyo or wells could have started up top

[Eastendboy1965]

6 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

What we are watching is really uninspiring football. When we lose as well as playing pi55 poor football then I really wonder why I bother watching. 

Lansdown has been clear it's his club, he decides the strategy and we're just customers. As a customer I don't enjoy the product atm and am seriously thinking of not bothering to buy it any more this season. 

I can understand your frustration..  

FACT>>> Lansdown has been clear it's his club, he decides the strategy and we're just customers.  

 

 

[sh1t_ref_again]

23 minutes ago, Eastendboy1965 said:

I can understand your frustration..  

FACT>>> Lansdown has been clear it's his club, he decides the strategy and we're just customers.  

 

 

FACT..... He employs a highly experienced manager and very well thought of CEO to run the club day to day.

Sounds like quite a few on here are customers, with quotes like not paying my money to watch this, glad I did not buy a season ticket

[Wiltshire robin]

11 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

FACT..... He employs a highly experienced manager and very well thought of CEO to run the club day to day.

Sounds like quite a few on here are customers, with quotes like not paying my money to watch this, glad I did not buy a season ticket

Tbh RG may be well thought of in cricket but not football . I’m not having a pop at Gould as he hasn’t had long to impact the club and but what I’ve thought for the last couple of years is we will never have a real attempt of a promotion push under the lansdowns .

[MC RISK77]

12 hours ago, WECANDO said:

Did you not watch the game against Stoke last Wednesday. That was entertaining. 

That was only entertaining because of the atmosphere created by the fans in carrying us home to a 1-0 scrappy but merited win….It is very different to being entertained by the quality of football on show which unfortunately under Pearson I have yet to see, he talks a lot and is very honest which fans seem to like, I would prefer his talking to be played out on the pitch.

Given his experience both as a player and manager I would be expecting to see at the very least a level of effort, discipline and style of play by now…. He has been extremely disappointing. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Been no discipline or shape whatsoever, last few away games.

Barely even turning up.

Had a good read of this forum this morning.

Fair few saying they are now indiffrent to results.

The teams simply not turning up.

Hope sl reads, before the fans simply stop turning up.

[Oh Louie louie]

But on the bright side, imagine having the stigma attached to your club, for having the tea lady scout your best ever player!

[Oh Louie louie]

Ian wright, used to give nigel martyn pelters about that!

[Guest]

2 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Fair enough be demanding . But solutions are very much harder to find . To simplify it to he should be doing better is in reality saying you want better but are unable to articulate  how anyone can do better with the squad we have . You cannot compare our central midfield yesterday to that of Sheffield . At least at this stage of their career . But it’s down to Pearson to overnight give those players an instant 4 years of experience? It dies not work like that . It is why many managers go with older and more experienced players . We were missing our three older heads in midfield . You cannot brush that away . The team has improved shape dramatically since the coaching change . Players are working hard to get into position and track back . But you cannot overnight give experience or solve the technical deficiencies of certain players to keep the ball . Any manager coming in will face the same challenge . Almost all incoming would refuse to play Scott or AB. They would not get a look in . You have to look at where we will be in 3/4 years . That means patience . We have very limited money and so we have to approach the future in a very different way . We have spoken about developing our own players for years . We are now doing it . With that comes highs and lows . But the big high will be when those players are 22/23 .  You can change Pearson but that is just to appease the impatience . You can change football style , sure , but you won’t get a radical change in performance with the current squad . We have some good players , some great potential , but we do not yet have a balanced squad or one with the technical and physical attributes to compete at the other end of this league .  Despite all the work with fitness we are also suffering from the lack of availability of Williams and James at the same time .  With a small squad that hurts . we have had one transfer window where we had to cut the wage bill by close on 10 m . These are harsh realities , yet people expect a team in free fall to be turned around overnight . With minimal ability to overhaul the squad . 

It still seems some need relegation to wake up to the reality . Few managers of note would have taken on this task . If any . Someone would of course , but would anyone in our situation be playing a couple of teenagers ? 

It is time for patience . Next season we should see some semblance of balance , still not a promotion side mind you , but one with more balance in terms of players available for the budget spent . But it will be 2/3 years before the collective will have the experience and ability to compete and get closer to top 6 . That is the result of a change in financial reality and fundamental change in policy . 
 

it depends how you choose to look at it . Some , like yourself have the view , and it’s your prerogative I should add , we can just change manager and all will be solved and the current squad is actually quite good . So everything that is happening now is terrible .

I look at it and feel that within a terrible financial mess and at the end of a misguided transfer policy and being run by inexperienced people who had no idea what a promotion team ( at any level ) looks like , never mind a Prem side . We are trying to navigate a complex situation by putting in place the attributes of a successful squad in terms of collective and responsibility ( hey we saw GJ and SC do the same ) whilst at the same time ( with huge financial constraints) developing a mix of experience , buying /signing players who have a high ceiling in potential , developing our own youth that have that same ceiling , the Prem , and along the way improve the technical and physical attributes of the squad for Prem league . I find this approach and journey exciting as it is what we always said as a club we were doing but we never were  . It is a change in policy and one that has potential for a non parachute club to succeed. This should have been happening years ago but we were stuck in a L1 mentality . It is now happening and it is painful . But the end result will be a much healthier club with much higher standards and a platform that will then make the setup very appealing to many coaches/managers . I find this very exciting and will enjoy the journey. 

Keep going Nige . 
 

 

I keep reading about the "terrible financial mess" we are in, how has that been allowed to happen? remembering that we have " alledgedly" one of the most astute financial men at our helm in SL.

We are under his guidance/control therefore our current situation is down to him and no-one else, so ladies and gentlemen SL is failing badly in his target of us challenging the best in this div for the jump up to the prem.

We can pick out the poor players, managers even MA and co but they didnt bring themselves here, SL had the final say, so step forward Steve this is your club, whats the plan? let me guess; more rebuilding/pillars but not just hotels/houses please, look at the your clubs you will need to fill the stadium as well.

Edited November 29, 2021 by gl2

[SecretSam]

I didn't see yesterday's game (sounds like I was lucky), but I recall in the past when Jordan took over we were dreadful until he'd had a chance to build his own team. Then we sauntered to promotion.

I'm not saying that the same thing will happen under Pearson, but it's clear we are (pardon the pun) hamstrung by high wages for players who aren't performing (Wells, Palmer most obviously). They probably need to be shipped out, although how we achieve that in the current market is a major issue.

That will give us the financial headroom to start improving the squad. I'm not convinced that Pearson's "old boys" approach (James, King, Simpson) has been a positive, however, so it needs to be more imaginative.

Oh, and anyone blaming the owner - get a grip. 

[SecretSam]

37 minutes ago, gl2 said:

I keep reading about the "terrible financial mess" we are in, how has that been allowed to happen? remembering that we have " alledgedly" one of the most astute financial men at our helm in SL.

Step forward, the previous CEO. It's not down to the owner, it's down to those within the executive at the club.

[Dullmoan Tone]

3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

You cannot compare our central midfield yesterday to that of Sheffield . At least at this stage of their career . But it’s down to Pearson to overnight give those players an instant 4 years of experience? It dies not work like that . It is why many managers go with older and more experienced players . We were missing our three older heads in midfield .

I liked your post and it shows patience and balance but …. we do have more experience and I cannot understand why good players like JD have suddenly become bad eggs on Nigel’s watch? He must take some responsibility for not being able to motivate them? Obviously nobody understands the Palmer situation but surely an experienced coach would motivate and deploy him vs AB who was always going to struggle yesterday - this is what worries me most as we develop a team and style.

Lets not forget despite SU’s experience, they were woeful last year and struggling this year - they are not a benchmark for this league or the future. We are miles off where we need to be in midfield and it frustrates me that Nigel’s seemingly given up on improving what he has. Is he really just doing what Cotts did at the end and picking inexperience to prove his point?

Even his (supposedly) experienced players like COD (perhaps even Scott) are being played out of position at the expense of the weak midfield while he leaves players that he signed (Simpson) on the bench  - this is what worries me most. Signing Simpson shows he misunderstood the strength and quality of the League!

[LondonBristolian]

31 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I didn't see yesterday's game (sounds like I was lucky), but I recall in the past when Jordan took over we were dreadful until he'd had a chance to build his own team. Then we sauntered to promotion.

I'm not saying that the same thing will happen under Pearson, but it's clear we are (pardon the pun) hamstrung by high wages for players who aren't performing (Wells, Palmer most obviously). They probably need to be shipped out, although how we achieve that in the current market is a major issue.

That will give us the financial headroom to start improving the squad. I'm not convinced that Pearson's "old boys" approach (James, King, Simpson) has been a positive, however, so it needs to be more imaginative.

Oh, and anyone blaming the owner - get a grip. 

Even with the “old boys” recruitment approach though, it is arguably symptomatic of Pearson taking over with a CEO outgoing along with key parts of a recruitment team which was not performing fantastically in any case.

I think the signings of Simpson, James and King are as much to do with a need to get players in Pearson could trust quickly due to the club not having the structure in place to cast the net wider. I’d hope Atkinson and Tanner are more reflective of the signings we’re going to be making.

[TV Tom]

46 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I didn't see yesterday's game (sounds like I was lucky), but I recall in the past when Jordan took over we were dreadful until he'd had a chance to build his own team. Then we sauntered to promotion.

I'm not saying that the same thing will happen under Pearson, but it's clear we are (pardon the pun) hamstrung by high wages for players who aren't performing (Wells, Palmer most obviously). They probably need to be shipped out, although how we achieve that in the current market is a major issue.

That will give us the financial headroom to start improving the squad. I'm not convinced that Pearson's "old boys" approach (James, King, Simpson) has been a positive, however, so it needs to be more imaginative.

Oh, and anyone blaming the owner - get a grip. 

Jordan was prepared to play an expansive free-flowing game so even if we lost it was still pleasant on the eye (with the exception of one particular game) I don’t think “expansive or freee-flowing” is in Pearson’s DNA 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, billywedlock said:

You can change Pearson but that is just to appease the impatience

That is the sentence I’ve was trying to find all last night.  Thanks.  Bang on.

3 hours ago, gl2 said:

I keep reading about the "terrible financial mess" we are in, how has that been allowed to happen? remembering that we have " alledgedly" one of the most astute financial men at our helm in SL.

We are under his guidance/control therefore our current situation is down to him and no-one else, so ladies and gentlemen SL is failing badly in his target of us challenging the best in this div for the jump up to the prem.

We can pick out the poor players, managers even MA and co but they didnt bring themselves here, SL had the final say, so step forward Steve this is your club, whats the plan? let me guess; more rebuilding/pillars but not just hotels/houses please, look at the your clubs you will need to fill the stadium as well.

I read your first sentence, and was about to wade in….but then read the rest!!!

Its true, he doesn’t know much about football, and his biggest failure is to not surround himself with those that do.  Nige is trying to backfill that as well as manage the team.

 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, harrys said:

Jordan was prepared to play an expansive free-flowing game so even if we lost it was still pleasant on the eye (with the exception of one particular game) I don’t think “expansive or freee-flowing” is in Pearson’s DNA 

I think there's also an element of what the players can do though. People keep pointing out our poor pass completion rate. I think our "dig in, try to keep the opposition out and try to nick a goal" tactics are as much to do with necessity as preferred playing style. 

[Supersonic Robin]

22 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

As someone who was over the moon with Pearson being appointed ….I’ll be one of the first to admit he has to go . 
 

Almost a year in charge and where as I appreciate things take time, we should be seeing some progress by now . Absolutely nothing has changed .

Simply not good enough 

This isn't really true IMO. Fans simply forget how bad we were last season.

Last season we were, statistically, the worst team in the league. Ignore big shiny stadiums, attendances, wage bills, transfer fees, size of clubs etc for a moment. The actual on field side that Pearson inherited was performing at lower standard than all 3 relegated teams - financially crippled Sheffield Wednesday, perennial Championship relegation fodder Rotherham, and resource-less Championship newbies Wycombe. 

Imagine we were neutrals looking on at Pearson inheriting that Wycombe side for a Championship season - what would our expectations have been for him/them? Of course we have much better resources than a club like Wycombe, but from a purely footballing performance based perspective it's a reasonable comparison. 

Statistically, we're no longer the worst team in the league, we're about the 7th worst team in the league (depending on your source of data). Personally, I also think we look a little bit better than last season - that small improvement is visible to the eye IMO. We've also cut the wage bill in making that change.

This is technically progress and improvement. I appreciate that it's relatively slow, frustrating progress. I also appreciate it's depressing that being the 7th worst in the league constitutes progress for us, but that's where we are. 

 

[Simon bristol]

6 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

This isn't really true IMO. Fans simply forget how bad we were last season.

Last season we were, statistically, the worst team in the league. Ignore big shiny stadiums, attendances, wage bills, transfer fees, size of clubs etc for a moment. The actual on field side that Pearson inherited was performing at lower standard than all 3 relegated teams - financially crippled Sheffield Wednesday, perennial Championship relegation fodder Rotherham, and resource-less Championship newbies Wycombe. 

Imagine we were neutrals looking on at Pearson inheriting that Wycombe side for a Championship season - what would our expectations have been for him/them? Of course we have much better resources than a club like Wycombe, but from a purely footballing performance based perspective it's a reasonable comparison. 

Statistically, we're no longer the worst team in the league, we're about the 7th worst team in the league (depending on your source of data). Personally, I also think we look a little bit better than last season - that small improvement is visible to the eye IMO. We've also cut the wage bill in making that change.

This is technically progress and improvement. I appreciate that it's relatively slow, frustrating progress. I also appreciate it's depressing that being the 7th worst in the league constitutes progress for us, but that's where we are. 

 

quite interesting that! I guess an accurate measure of pearsons performance is to list the championship in terms of wage bill,,, a club 10th on the list for example ought to be performing roughly at that level. I suppose it can then vary depending on possession stats, fan satisfaction etc, but by most metrics, we are generally performing poorly i would guess, perhaps apart from minutes played by young players?!

[supercidered]

23 hours ago, Bobby kellard hero said:

I’m glad you lot weren’t probably around watching city in the late 60’s early 70’s.You would have had Alan Dicks hung drawn and quartered.

Dicks Out !

[Supersonic Robin]

2 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

quite interesting that! I guess an accurate measure of pearsons performance is to list the championship in terms of wage bill,,, a club 10th on the list for example ought to be performing roughly at that level. I suppose it can then vary depending on possession stats, fan satisfaction etc, but by most metrics, we are generally performing poorly i would guess, perhaps apart from minutes played by young players?!

It's a bit of a tough one to judge NP with the wage bill. We've certainly overpaid relative to the team's output, and that's the fault of Pearon's predecessors, not Pearson. Kasey Palmer is an obvious example - he's likely on around 15-20k pw, but how much of an "asset" is he to Pearson in practice? It actually gets worse, because every pound tied up in paying a player like Palmer is a pound that NP is unable to spend elsewhere.

 

[Bobby kellard hero]

37 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Dicks Out !

Ha ha.Remember that well

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Simon bristol said:

quite interesting that! I guess an accurate measure of pearsons performance is to list the championship in terms of wage bill,,, a club 10th on the list for example ought to be performing roughly at that level. I suppose it can then vary depending on possession stats, fan satisfaction etc, but by most metrics, we are generally performing poorly i would guess, perhaps apart from minutes played by young players?!

Good point.

2 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

It's a bit of a tough one to judge NP with the wage bill. We've certainly overpaid relative to the team's output, and that's the fault of Pearon's predecessors, not Pearson. Kasey Palmer is an obvious example - he's likely on around 15-20k pw, but how much of an "asset" is he to Pearson in practice? It actually gets worse, because every pound tied up in paying a player like Palmer is a pound that NP is unable to spend elsewhere.

 

Good response.

[Waconda]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I know neither you or I pick the team, but what would you have done in your pre-game set up / decision making differently to what Nige did, bearing in mind we’d just come off a 4 point / 2 game “run”?

Good post.

I said way back in August that if posters wants to react to an individual game, there are gonna be a lot of negative posts this season.

In our match day 18 today there was one senior player not selected who was available….Palmer.

Certainly it’s possible to be critical of Nige and say his “trimmer squad” plan has backfired.  Or ask yourself, is he just saying that to cover up the lack of money available, and actually it’s kinda forced on him….he actually can’t afford a bigger squad.

"Certainly it’s possible to be critical of Nige and say his “trimmer squad” plan has backfired.  Or ask yourself, is he just saying that to cover up the lack of money available, and actually it’s kinda forced on him….he actually can’t afford a bigger squad."

Stretching it a bit there Mate, he has signed 7 players.

One thing for sure. what ever the reason(s) our current manager and coaching set up are not getting the best out of the players we have. Improved since he came back from his last illness granted but overall very underwhelming and worrying.

Saturday is a massive game regarding where this is heading IMO. Regardless of the result if the performance falls back to those of a month ago then we are into something has to be done territory.

Derby are a decent team and we will have to be at the Blackburn game standards both on the pitch and in the dug out to gain any points. I am hopeful we will be and yesterday was a blip on an otherwise upwards trajectory .

 

[NcnsBcfc]

I believe the club has shaved around a third off the wage bill from last year. A lot of that huge wage bill was the player's coming to the end of their contracts. It's still sometimes the case that players get "loyalty" bonuses for seeing out a contract, plus the last year's wage is normally at a higher level.

So let's suppose we are operating at around the £25m mark at present (as opposed to the £35m of last season). I have no idea whether that is a level at which we can operate within the constraints of FFP, as none of us has any idea of the income streams at the club at the moment. It may be the level we can work out, we may have to drop it even more; time will tell.

The squad is of course unbalanced, with a number of what I would call "legacy" players, ie players on contracts that we entered into in better times; and can't really afford anymore. At the top end will be players like Kalas, Palmer, Wells & JD. Then the next bracket Bentley, COD, Weimann (until renegotiated), Martin. The first four I would estimate are collectively I would say on around £5m per year. That's 20% of your total playing budget, and of those 4, only Kalas is now what i would call in the starting 11.

Bentley, COD, Martin are more productive in terms of their minutes/goals/games, but maybe an expensive luxury that the club will need to make a decision on next summer.

I've no doubt that in a perfect world we would look to trade Palmer, Wells & JD; and re-sign Kalas, Bentley, Martin; not sure about COD just yet, to new contracts. 

The reality, as shown by the Nagy transfer is that the market is dead for those sort of players, and with two years left on their contracts we are either stuck with them, or heavily subsidising loans elsewhere. We are already short on numbers (NP wanting a smaller squad + injuries). Can we afford to lose further players, when financially it takes us no further forward. For instance, you loan out Palmer, we would be paying 75% of his wages I reckon at least. For him to be playing for someone else. That only makes sense if we are able to get someone else in for that remaining 25% of his contract (a tall order at best) who would take us forward as a club.

Then we come to players like Kalas, Bentley, Martin, Massengo, COD. All entering their final years (if we take up the option on COD). I can't believe Kalas, and Bentley will take a pay drop at their stage of their careers. Likewise Massengo, and Martin will get offers from the new riches of L1. 

So even the players that you want to keep, you probably can't; and the ones you don't (on good contracts) are probably impossible to get rid of; without some form of payoff (Nagy).

In the meantime. The club is trying to formulate what budgets they have moving forward. Who knows what we lost last season due to Covid, and that of course affects your playing budget moving forwards. The crowds haven't been too bad this season, but that won't continue of course; and a large number probably won't renew.

It's all a bit of a perfect storm financially for the new unfortunately. Made of course, by the Senior Leadership Team (All culpable) trying to make the club self sustainable through some form of Ponzi financial scheme of buy low, train, sell high. With no thought given to continuity of the squad moving forward. I believe the only exception to this was when LJ insisted that if he couldn't have Webster, then he wouldn't sell Flint.

Sometimes the players know more about what's happening than we give them credit for. Bryan, Reid, Webster, Kodjia, Elliason, Brownhill; all wanted to go. Flint had it written into his new contract (as did Brownhill of course). Got a decent fee for Pack, and Kelly. You can't stop these players going if they're ambitious, it just shows that they felt that if they stayed at the club, then they wouldn't be able to attain those ambitions. That for me is the greatest shame of the last 3/4 years. It feels like we've lost a bit of a golden generation of players.

MA was obviously tasked with making the club self sustainable; and felt that his wheeler dealer approach was the best way for that to happen. What is noticable is of course, that this all didn't happen over one or two transfer windows. It was allowed to happen over the course of 3-4 years. Even the Kelly money was brought forward one season, so we could have the magical "first profit in 20 years" headline. It was in fact just stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

The Lansdowns had become fixated on infrastructure (AG & Failand). That of course needed doing 10-15 years ago (The new stadium debacle took far too long). If it had been done then. Then maybe the income generated would have put us on a firmer footing financially then to push forward. Now we are left with improved facilities, and a much poorer squad of players, that as I mentioned above; are almost impossible to change until the summer of 2023.

At the moment, we probably have a L1 squad, trying to stay in the Championship, but hindered by a still large immobile wage bill. When NP said it would take 3 years, he knew already that by that date (2023), their would be more flexibility financially to craft a team.

As NP said after the Sheffield game "We know where we are as a team". Yes, we are poor; but with a few loans/new bodies in Jan (Thank god for a transfer window); I'm still hopeful that we can be better than at least 3 teams over the course of 46 games.

It's hard going at the moment. But periods of play like the first half against Blackburn recently, show me that there is hope. We just have to keep going, unlike last season, where certain players just gave up,

[Mihai]

Please a mod delete this.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Mihai

[Mihai]

We need to keep it up. To fight for the badge and with ugly or nice style..that doesn't matter when it is a crisis like this.

I assume we won't get relegated but not very safe also. The staff had to get players that can make us better and get rid of the likes of Wells, Semenyo and the two midfielders that signed this season. I mean the two from the former Leicester team.

It will take some time to be competitive but think about it. Barsnely hit the top 6 with their poor team...so if the key players are good and the morale is high we can do some great things with time.

Peace from Bucharest !

 

 

PLEASE A MOD CAN LET ONLY THIS MESSAGE UP ? MY PHONE WENT CRAZY AND I SPAMMED BY MISTAKE. 

 

Thanks !

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Mihai

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Stretching it a bit there Mate, he has signed 7 players.

Not really, if you say he signed 7 players, then you have to say he let go 13players, not 110, 14 inc Nagy, 15 if you include Moore out on loan (his choice admittedly).

He’s 7 down on last season.  Okay, let’s call it 6 because of Gilmartin.  Hang on, back to net 8 - Mawson and Sessegnon.

A squad smaller by 8 senior players is quite a lot isn’t it?

33 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

MA was obviously tasked with making the club self sustainable; and felt that his wheeler dealer approach was the best way for that to happen. What is noticable is of course, that this all didn't happen over one or two transfer windows. It was allowed to happen over the course of 3-4 years. Even the Kelly money was brought forward one season, so we could have the magical "first profit in 20 years" headline. It was in fact just stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

 

great post btw.

The timing of this transfer is about to come back and haunt us.  Had that money been put into 19/20’s accounts it would be counting towards this year and next year.

A bit if vanity about posting a profit…a poor decision in the long term.  @Mr Popodopolouswe talked about this in our DMs didn’t we!

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not really, if you say he signed 7 players, then you have to say he let go 13players, not 110, 14 inc Nagy, 15 if you include Moore out on loan (his choice admittedly).

He’s 7 down on last season.  Okay, let’s call it 6 because of Gilmartin.  Hang on, back to net 8 - Mawson and Sessegnon.

A squad smaller by 8 senior players is quite a lot isn’t it?

great post btw.

The timing of this transfer is about to come back and haunt us.  Had that money been put into 19/20’s accounts it would be counting towards this year and next year.

A bit if vanity about posting a profit…a poor decision in the long term.  @Mr Popodopolouswe talked about this in our DMs didn’t we!

Yeah looking back now- a poor decision, as we discussed before. What was the fee in the end, £15m? Obviously the impact of the profit added to the prior profit and like the losses, that averaged due to Covid but would sure come in handy now- even for a couple of loans eg.

Although there was/is something about Future Financial Information or requirements for future reporting being lower if a profit posted IIRC but at the same time, it would have been better now tbh! Our FFP wouldn't have been affected for the worse at that time.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[A Horse With No Name]

16 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

This isn't really true IMO. Fans simply forget how bad we were last season.

Last season we were, statistically, the worst team in the league. Ignore big shiny stadiums, attendances, wage bills, transfer fees, size of clubs etc for a moment. The actual on field side that Pearson inherited was performing at lower standard than all 3 relegated teams - financially crippled Sheffield Wednesday, perennial Championship relegation fodder Rotherham, and resource-less Championship newbies Wycombe. 

Imagine we were neutrals looking on at Pearson inheriting that Wycombe side for a Championship season - what would our expectations have been for him/them? Of course we have much better resources than a club like Wycombe, but from a purely footballing performance based perspective it's a reasonable comparison. 

Statistically, we're no longer the worst team in the league, we're about the 7th worst team in the league (depending on your source of data). Personally, I also think we look a little bit better than last season - that small improvement is visible to the eye IMO. We've also cut the wage bill in making that change.

This is technically progress and improvement. I appreciate that it's relatively slow, frustrating progress. I also appreciate it's depressing that being the 7th worst in the league constitutes progress for us, but that's where we are. 

 

When you talk about statistically being the 7th worst team in the League, you are basically ignoring the fact that, even in the games we are picking up points, ie Stoke, Barnsley, etc we are still very, very poor. I refuse to believe there are two worse sides than us this season, let alone five, and the upcoming games against Derby and Hull will prove that.

[Supersonic Robin]

2 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

When you talk about statistically being the 7th worst team in the League, you are basically ignoring the fact that, even in the games we are picking up points, ie Stoke, Barnsley, etc we are still very, very poor. I refuse to believe there are two worse sides than us this season, let alone five, and the upcoming games against Derby and Hull will prove that.

Actually the opposite is true if anything (though my fault for not being clearer).

When I say "statistically", I mean to refer to our underlying stats (predominantly xG numbers), as oppose to our actual results/league position. The two happen to be the same thing right now - we're 18th in the league, and InfoGol has us as roughly the 18th best team in the league performance wise so far.
That xG (or xP) prediction attempts to assess how many points you "deserve" based on performances, so it accounts for the effect of "lucky wins". Obviously it's not perfect, but it generally gives a reasonable estimate across larger ranges of data.

We are poor, but most teams in the bottom third are! When you include the effect of points deductions, I do think there are at least 3 worse teams than us, even if it's closer than we'd like. IMO our survival is very much in our own hands. The Derby and Hull games feel important though.

 

 

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Actually the opposite is true if anything (though my fault for not being clearer).

When I say "statistically", I mean to refer to our underlying stats (predominantly xG numbers), as oppose to our actual results/league position. The two happen to be the same thing right now - we're 18th in the league, and InfoGol has us as roughly the 18th best team in the league performance wise so far.
That xG (or xP) prediction attempts to assess how many points you "deserve" based on performances, so it accounts for the effect of "lucky wins". Obviously it's not perfect, but it generally gives a reasonable estimate across larger ranges of data.

We are poor, but most teams in the bottom third are! When you include the effect of points deductions, I do think there are at least 3 worse teams than us, even if it's closer than we'd like. IMO our survival is very much in our own hands. The Derby and Hull games feel important though.

 

 

I also think it is easy to think our opponents are better because we aren’t playing well.  It’s a kind of unconscious bias.  There is a lot of a 90 minutes where no team is in control, but we see naturally that as City are worse.  An opposition attack always looks more threatening whatever team you’re supporting.

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I also think it is easy to think our opponents are better because we aren’t playing well.  It’s a kind of unconscious bias.  There is a lot of a 90 minutes where no team is in control, but we see naturally that as City are worse.  An opposition attack always looks more threatening whatever team you’re supporting.

Good point.

Barnsley for example.

[Red-Robbo]

I can't help but to think that Pearson and Fleming urgently need competent, top-class coaching help. We know how this was critical to the Pearson success at Leicester.

Ultimately, Sunday showed that the midfield doesn't function without a holding, tackling player. We look a shadow of the side when Williams and/or James are not available. 

[RobintheRed Red]

On 28/11/2021 at 15:34, marmite said:

This club lost its momentum when Cotts left.  Yes LJ did ok up until the Man Utd game when he thought he had become Jurgen Klopp.  We've been sliding backwards since then and now relegation is a real possibility, it may be to late for the club to wake up. We may well be heading back to our average position of Champ/Div 1 yo yo club.. Opportunities have been wasted and so the cycle continues.

Brilliant so true.

[ooRya]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I also think it is easy to think our opponents are better because we aren’t playing well.  It’s a kind of unconscious bias.  There is a lot of a 90 minutes where no team is in control, but we see naturally that as City are worse.  An opposition attack always looks more threatening whatever team you’re supporting.

No.

For me, every other team looks better than us because they all try to play football.

We have ONE tactic, kick it long to Martin and try to feed off the scraps.

I can't believe that people are still supporting Pearson when this is clearly how he wants them to play (if it wasn't, he would tell them to stop doing it surely?) and his City record to date shows that it doesn't work.

People can blame the players/previous managers etc all they like, but if this is the extent of Pearson's coaching ability then the blame stops totally with him.

Show me ANY evidence, ANYTHING, to show me that I'm wrong

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, ooRya said:

No.

For me, every other team looks better than us because they all try to play football.

We have ONE tactic, kick it long to Martin and try to feed off the scraps.

I can't believe that people are still supporting Pearson when this is clearly how he wants them to play (if it wasn't, he would tell them to stop doing it surely?) and his City record to date shows that it doesn't work.

People can blame the players/previous managers etc all they like, but if this is the extent of Pearson's coaching ability then the blame stops totally with him.

Show me ANY evidence, ANYTHING, to show me that I'm wrong

Guess what?  We don’t all think the same as you!