Northern Red Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, maxjak said: Headline on Main Site from Nige "Poor Decisions Cost Us" ..................Spot on Nige, great that your so self aware? The very first poor decision happened prior to Kick Off.............with the Line Up you chose? What would you have picked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 As per another thread. I wonder if Simpson is actually one of these players who is not ‘on the bus’?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Vyner in midfield Alongside Scott and Massengo ........Semenyo and O'Dowda wide (So basically fill the midfield) Atlinson, Kalas , Baker and Pring at the back. Either Wells or Weimann as a lone striker? I think it's an improvement.......but i'm no coach? But after that performance do we have any Coach's , other than the one we turned up in ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 11 minutes ago, maxjak said: Vyner in midfield Alongside Scott and Massengo ........Semenyo and O'Dowda wide (So basically fill the midfield) Atlinson, Kalas , Baker and Pring at the back. Either Wells or Weimann as a lone striker? I think it's an improvement.......but i'm no coach? But after that performance do we have any Coach's , other than the one we turned up in ? So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola? We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola? We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances? Anybody with half an amount of grey matter could see we would be over run in midfield, and that Scott at wing back was a square peg in a round hole, and a complete waste of a creative player. Plus Benerous and Scott are too similar to both play?...................sorry we are very consistent, consistently poor. I don't trust Niges decision making, and for a man who played his entire career as a central defender, he appears to have no idea how to set up a defence? IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 17 hours ago, pongo88 said: It would be very interesting to be a spy at training to see what certain players do, or don’t do ... We could ask Bielsa for a peek at his files? They may be a bit out of date but could give some interesting insights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Harry said: As per another thread. I wonder if Simpson is actually one of these players who is not ‘on the bus’?? I doubt that, he wouldn’t be letting him have as much influence on the young players from the sideline would he? Thats not to say he might not move on during January. Fleming suggested he’s not here to just mentor the youngsters, he wants to play too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I doubt that, he wouldn’t be letting him have as much influence on the young players from the sideline would he? Thats not to say he might not move on during January. Fleming suggested he’s not here to just mentor the youngsters, he wants to play too. He has to be shifted surely ? Not playing or likely to, he would have played yesterday if there was a chance of that. Currently a very expensive mascot. Never understood this signing from the beginning. James and even King, well yes I can see a reason but Simpson just plain odd - IMO. Edited November 29, 2021 by VT05763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, VT05763 said: He has to be shifted surely ? Not playing or likely to, he would have played yesterday if there was a chance of that. Currently a very expensive mascot. Never understood this signing from the beginning. James and even King, well yes I can see a reason but Simpson just plain odd - IMO. I understood the signing. The plan was 442, Vyner first choice, Simpson to provide experienced back up. Whether I agreed with it or not makes no difference. FWIW I was happy enough with it. Where every recruit was gonna be counting the pennies, re-sign the guy you know can do a job (in theory) for a season whilst you plan your long-term recruit. One less position to worry about in the summer. If you take @Harry’s view on recruitment, it’s also because he didn’t trust recruitment to look beyond players he knew or that came highly recommended. Despite last week’s positive results playing 352, I still think this squad is better suited to a back four. I think Nige knows that too. That would give scope for Simpson to play here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, maxjak said: Anybody with half an amount of grey matter could see we would be over run in midfield, and that Scott at wing back was a square peg in a round hole, and a complete waste of a creative player. Plus Benerous and Scott are too similar to both play?...................sorry we are very consistent, consistently poor. I don't trust Niges decision making, and for a man who played his entire career as a central defender, he appears to have no idea how to set up a defence? IMHO. I hear you but take a slightly different view. As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it. "Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0. Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individuals making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager. The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league - a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing helter skelter after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors in them... we could on, but let's not. It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday. Imho. Edited November 29, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 52 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola? We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances? Doesn’t fit the narrative though. Win then lose, so clearly we should have made wholesale changes. Hindsight every time, personally I’d have rested Benarous yesterday & dropped Weimann back alongside HNM & Bakinson (as there was literally no one else to choose from in midfield) & partnered Martin with either Semenyo or Wells. 2 changes, 1 of which was enforced by Williams’ absence. I doubt it would have worked though, but saying we should have made 4 or 5 unforced changes is laughable, unless of course you are in possession of next week’s lottery numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: I hear you but take a slightly different view. As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it. "Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0. Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individual's making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager. The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league - a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors... It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday. Good post in response MM. Of course it is easy to treat it like Football Manager and pick a different eleven / different system (that’s not a dig at you @maxjak, we all do it) and say Nige should’ve done this or that. But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet, and I’m confident Nige and his staff put the right amount of thought into it and they thought this was the best chance of getting a result. There are consequences to their decisions, doing the wrong thing can undermine the selection policy, confidence etc. We don’t have to worry about that do we? Although it was gonna be a tough task yesterday, we contributed to our own downfall to an extent. We never really recovered from a fast United start, and that’s when you see the character (or lack of it in some cases) come through. We didn’t get the first challenge in like O’Dowda did v Stoke, that makes your opponent think “blimey, this lot ain’t gonna make it easy today”. Unfortunately our experienced players were at the back and up-front, not in midfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 "But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, VT05763 said: "But there is a lot more to it than putting magnetic blobs on a whiteboard or writing eleven names out on a teamsheet" Believe it or not, whenever I put a suggested line-up on OTIB, I’ve usually spent some time looking at the opposition, how we might try to stop them when we are out of possession, how we will play through any of their various presses, how we might attack and defend set-pieces. I don’t put 6-8 hours research per game like I was last season when I was writing my “what can we expect” threads, but I still put effort in. I want to be able to explain my choices. I want to be able to stand behind them. Yeah, it might be a bit sad, but hey-ho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Davefevs said: Believe it or not, whenever I put a suggested line-up on OTIB, I’ve usually spent some time looking at the opposition, how we might try to stop them when we are out of possession, how we will play through any of their various presses, how we might attack and defend set-pieces. I don’t put 6-8 hours research per game like I was last season when I was writing my “what can we expect” threads, but I still put effort in. I want to be able to explain my choices. I want to be able to stand behind them. Yeah, it might be a bit sad, but hey-ho. Not talking about you Sir. But you have hit the "Nail on the Head" there. What you are talking about is DETAIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said: So completely change the side that had picked up a win and a draw from the last 2 games. Did Johnson leave you his tombola? We're a side completely lacking consistency. Perhaps the manager thought that picking a settled side might be the first step towards settled performances? It more lacking quality than consistency. We are pretty consistent. Edited November 29, 2021 by Super Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjak Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said: I hear you but take a slightly different view. As someone with half an amount of grey matter, I looked at the starting midfield and thought "we'll do well to get a foothold in this game with that lot". But the fact of the matter is James, Williams and King were all unavailable and from what was left, the manager decided to stick as closely as possible to the side that had got decent results in the last 2 games. I agree completely Scott is a square peg in a round hole at wing back. However, I suspect the reason Pearson picked him there and not Semenyo is about defensive discipline and picking the one he thinks will work hardest when we haven't got the ball, especially away from home. And yes, that's a bit negative but the manager has decided his first task is to make us solid, competitive and as difficult to beat as possible. Whether you or I like it or not, there's a logic to it. "Benarous and Scott are too similar to both play". 4 days earlier they both made significant contributions for 98 minutes in a game that finished City 1 Stoke 0. Vyner in midfield? Dear Christ. When has that ever worked. He would have just been another passive passenger in there. I agree we're inconsistent, but a lot of that, not all but a lot, is to do with individuals making poor errors - and that's on the players, not the manager. The last week has been a great example of what people mean when they say the Championship is a tough unrelenting league - a game every 3 days, leaving little room for rest and none for meaningful work on the training pitch, for a team who spends 90+ minutes game after game chasing helter skelter after the ball, with experienced players missing, other experienced players not capable of handling such a heavy workload, young inexperienced players the same, the team full of players with more than a few basic errors in them... we could on, but let's not. It would have taken a miracle to get any sort of result, let alone a performance, out of yesterday. Imho. The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you. Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing, Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems. We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would? How could they possibly be worse? Ha! The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off? Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me. The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, maxjak said: The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you. Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing, Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems. We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would? How could they possibly be worse? Ha! The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off? Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me. The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO. I don't disagree with a lot of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 hours ago, maxjak said: The reference to grey matter was aimed at the manager..not you. Scott worked at home as a one off, but to expect him to excel away from home to a physical team like Sheff Utd was IMHO naive and foolhardy, also a waste of his talent, that could be better utilised in the number 10 role, hence the reason Benarous is dropped, to make way for Scott Bakinson has no cojones, I would use him at home, but not away, because he goes missing, Vyner is not an ideal replacement, but at least he fights and gets stuck in, I would have played him there as a one off given our current injury problems. We will never know if my side would do better than the side that our Nige picked....but I would have money on the fact that they would? How could they possibly be worse? Ha! The fact the the Championship is unrelenting is exactly why i would have changed the side......and most definitely given Martin a rest, before his legs fall off? Nige IMHO needs to find a style of play and formation that suits the players we have at present, but despite being here since Feburary, he patently has not, I don't trust him, and would replace if it was down to me. The football we have played so far under his management is some of the worst i have ever had the misfortune to watch IMHO. Had we not come off a 2 game / 4 point haul in the week beforehand, with the players available, and ignoring players perhaps settling well into new roles, I’d have done this, taking into account a bit of form not formation: Bentley Vyner | Kalas | Atkinson | Baker Scott | Massengo | Bakinson | O’Dowda Weimann | Semenyo i thought Martin would need a rest, Benarous too….plus my bias that I think we are better in a back 4 than a back 3. But as we have come off a good win, I see why Nige did what he did, why my suggestion might’ve been too big a change. I guess you could move Vyner to RWB, O’Dowda to LWB, but you are back to a 18,20,23 aged midfield three. Think it was a tough call. He might’ve got it wrong. He could’ve done what you or I did and we lose 5-0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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