I can't believe those stats from the Sunday people paper

[Never to the dark side]

Even at half time it was 32/68 in Derbys favour,thoughts any one?

[ralphindevon]

Well Sky agree with the possession, it didn’t seem quite that way at the time  ut we often flourish when the opposition enjoy more possession 

[Crackers Corner]

Is it where it is territorial Advantage so in the ball was Derby's half?

[Bar BS3]

9 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Well Sky agree with the possession, it didn’t seem quite that way at the time  ut we often flourish when the opposition enjoy more possession 

What part of being 17th in the league classes as "flourishing"..?! 

We return this level of percentage stat game after game and its terrible (despite yesterday's result) you can't conceded that much possession, consistently, and flourish...! 

[Lanterne Rouge]

@Davefevs has posted a map of Derby`s passing on another thread. the overwhelming amount of it was in their own half.

[HappyClapper]

Alternatively, you could argue that possession in your own half is pretty pointless. Possession for possession’s sake. We had less of the ball but were in their half for almost 60% of the game.

I know we are not a great side, but that was the most comfortable we’ve been at home all season.

[pongo88]

Particularly in the first half, most of Derby’s possession was in and around their own penalty area. Lots of possession but totally meaningless. I never take much notice of possession stats as, without context, they don’t tell the whole story 

[ralphindevon]

16 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What part of being 17th in the league classes as "flourishing"..?! 

We return this level of percentage stat game after game and its terrible (despite yesterday's result) you can't conceded that much possession, consistently, and flourish...! 

I’m no stat expert but I’ve noticed in most of our wins we’ve had less possession, Stoke was similar to yesterday, Barnsley had most but a lot of it isn’t dangerous possession and if we get ahead, now we’re better at not imploding at the end, things are looking better.

[Mr Popodopolous]

They had a lot more of the ball but we carried the much greater threat in the first half and we weren't that threatened in the 2nd although when it's only 1-0...the Morrison chance at the end- that phase of play I thought a bit of a worry.

[marmite]

I was amazed at the number of times they went backwards to retain possession.  Their keeper must have had more touches than anyone in their defensive line. 

[REDOXO]

We should have gone in three up at ht and on another day would have.
 

Possession stats are ok but pointless possession means nothing. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just now, REDOXO said:

We should have gone in three up at ht and on another day would have.
 

Possession stats are ok but pointless possession means nothing. 

As we are only too aware after watching the SOD years.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I’m no stat expert but I’ve noticed in most of our wins we’ve had less possession, Stoke was similar to yesterday, Barnsley had most but a lot of it isn’t dangerous possession and if we get ahead, now we’re better at not imploding at the end, things are looking better.

It’s not always the case, but if you get the first goal you can afford to let them have the ball in their half.  Games change when goals are scored.  Derby are a team that make lots of passes but don’t progress the ball much.  They are the second slowest behind Swansea.  For info Swansea are one point ahead of us.

We are the 8th most direct team behind, West Brom, Birmingham, Cardiff, Millwall, Barnsley, Middlesbrough and Coventry.  Coventry surprised me a bit.

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, marmite said:

I was amazed at the number of times they went backwards to retain possession.  Their keeper must have had more touches than anyone in their defensive line. 

Davies and Jagielka made 150 passes between them!

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Davies and Jagielka made 150 passes between them!

Yep most of first half they were passing between the 2 of them.

 

[marmite]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Davies and Jagielka made 150 passes between them!

That's a hell of a lot of touches. Shows how negative they were though.

[mozo]

They kept pratting about passing it between defence and keeper hence they clocked up lots of passes. Nothing to see here.

[GrahamC]

13 minutes ago, marmite said:

I was amazed at the number of times they went backwards to retain possession.  Their keeper must have had more touches than anyone in their defensive line. 

Me too, I thought we were a conservative side in possession but they were something else, as others have said, their centre backs seemed to pass it to each other repeatedly without seemingly even trying to open us up, plus WTF was that short goal kick stuff all about?

Bound to get caught out if they keep farting about with it in their own penalty area if you ask me.

[Lanterne Rouge]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Me too, I thought we were a conservative side in possession but they were something else, as others have said, their centre backs seemed to pass it to each other repeatedly without seemingly even trying to open us up, plus WTF was that short goal kick stuff all about?

Bound to get caught out if they keep farting about with it in their own penalty area if you ask me.

And we should know!

[marmite]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Me too, I thought we were a conservative side in possession but they were something else, as others have said, their centre backs seemed to pass it to each other repeatedly without seemingly even trying to open us up, plus WTF was that short goal kick stuff all about?

Bound to get caught out if they keep farting about with it in their own penalty area if you ask me.

The goal kick stuff is to draw us in then to bypass us with  long ball. Seemed we did our homework on this and they ended up like the Chuckle brothers,  to me to you etc.

[Rich]

That game yesterday was the most comfortable I've felt all season. We should have been out of sight by half time. Having an extra forward allowed us to press their defenders into hurried passes or, back to the keeper to lump it upfield. I cannot remember them having an attempt on goal until about the 60th minute, which was followed by about three in quick succession, then the closer one near the end.

We had about three breakaway attacks in the second half where we also should have done much better.

Other than that, Derby played the game in their half and penalty area in the first half and slightly further up the pitch in the second half, mostly due to us losing possession upfield in the second half. 

I felt as if I'd been entertained.

[Super]

Let's face it they were terrible and we were a bit better. I don't blame NP because this is our best way of getting results given this squad of players but it's so painful to watch. 

[Harry]

I don’t think there is anything surprising in those stats. It’s the game I saw. 
People need to realise that we are simply not a possession based team. We don’t have talented enough players to play possession dominant football, so we instead set up to allow the opposition the ball and try to make the most of counter attacks and set pieces. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, marmite said:

The goal kick stuff is to draw us in then to bypass us with  long ball. Seemed we did our homework on this and they ended up like the Chuckle brothers,  to me to you etc.

Don’t you dare go suggesting there was a gameplan yesterday, or that some form of pre-match preparation took place.  You’ll be burned at the stake!

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t think there is anything surprising in those stats. It’s the game I saw. 
People need to realise that we are simply not a possession based team. We don’t have talented enough players to play possession dominant football, so we instead set up to allow the opposition the ball and try to make the most of counter attacks and set pieces. 

There is though a happy medium between the two- not that I am complaining about yesterday, definitely not but there is a mixed bag...Swansea at home, we had not far off 50% of the ball, Blackburn 1st half 55% was it, think vs Luton and Blackpool we had a reasonable amount, 50% or a bit over/under. A fit, consistently James and Williams certainly would help, Although playing a 2 in CM at this level will also see a side often concede the midfield in that regard. Think vs Preston at home we also had around 50%?

OTOH vs Nottingham Forest, Stoke, Derby, 2nd half vs Blackburn yes it was down in the 30-mid 30's but definitely under 40% bracket.

Playing without the ball, dunno how sustainable it is- physically and mentally draining certainly over time although some good signs at home recently. Granted we perhaps aren't a possession dominant side but at home certainly could have a bit more?

In the event we get a fully fit James and Williams over a useful period- then pick one out of King, Bakinson and Massengo, perhaps mix and match that 3rd man for opposition, form, fitness etc then that feels a useful base to have more of the ball than we often do atm.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Taylor10]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t think there is anything surprising in those stats. It’s the game I saw. 
People need to realise that we are simply not a possession based team. We don’t have talented enough players to play possession dominant football, so we instead set up to allow the opposition the ball and try to make the most of counter attacks and set pieces. 

Bang on Harry. It amazes me some of our fan base still can’t grasp this. This also won’t be how we always player under NP if he’s allowed to get rid of the deadwood but he has to work with what he has. You can’t turn water into wine.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Taylor10 said:

Bang on Harry. It amazes me some of our fan base still can’t grasp this. This also won’t be how we always player under NP if he’s allowed to get rid of the deadwood but he has to work with what he has. You can’t turn water into whine.

[BanburyRed]

Twice as much possession but only one shot on target, half as much possession and twice as many shots on target, plus the report mentions misses by Martin, Weimann & Semenyo, so we're doing something right, and we got the game won.

[cidered abroad]

It's interesting that the Morrison shot was a direct result of the only clear mistake in the match by Scott who cleared from the goal line in penalty area straight to Morrison.

Not criticizing Scott but shows how one mistake could have sent us home crying. Well some would have!

[mozo]

49 minutes ago, marmite said:

The goal kick stuff is to draw us in then to bypass us with  long ball. Seemed we did our homework on this and they ended up like the Chuckle brothers,  to me to you etc.

I don't fully agree with that. I think they were drawing us in to then play the ball low through our forward lines to Shinnie and Thompson who were then supposed to spray the ball out wide.

They seemed to only go long reluctantly when the keeper had no other option and his kicking was pretty poor under pressure. 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

What part of being 17th in the league classes as "flourishing"..?! 

We return this level of percentage stat game after game and its terrible (despite yesterday's result) you can't conceded that much possession, consistently, and flourish...! 

Did you see the stat though that 80% of Derby’s possession was in their OWN HALF of the pitch. Simply translated around 70% of the game overall in terms of possession was played in the Derby half. Yesterday our tactic of allowing Derby to have the ball resulted in Bentley having an easy afternoon. Yes, the possession stats do need to improve but don’t be fooled into thinking we somehow got battered yesterday. Using your own eyes tells you that the possession stats meant very little in a game we could have wrapped up in the first 45 minutes and that was also confirmed by Wayner!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Some possession stats...while not possession dominant not sure we should be trending to the 30-mid 30's but certainly under 40% either. Passing accuracy in of itself can be useful but not definitive.

Now granted it is a) WhoScored so the accuracy maybe variable and b) It is a varied sample size but anyway...

Possession of our CMs in recent seasons prior to this- with or without us

Williams- Last 3 seasons, highlighting both comfort in possession and a strong availability. 2017/18-2019/20

1. Barnsley- 34 games, 77,4%
2. Bolton- 30 games, 77,7%
3. Wigan- 38 games, 81.2%

James

Split season- Barnsley and Coventry in 2020/21

1. Barnsley- 15 games, 70%
2. Coventry- 23 games, 78.1%

Bakinson- 2020/21

Us- 34 games, 73.6%.

Massengo- 2020/21

Us- 27 games, 80%

Not as if we have a bunch of cloggers...not like we are possession 1st either of course! Barnsley at 70% partially explained by Ismael's style of play probably.

King is hard to gauge due to his recent history but his last full season albeit at PL was split- he's had a lot of clubs and injuries etc.

2017/18- King

1. Leicester- 11 games, 78.6%
2. Swansea- 9 games, 84%.

Granted as I say it's useful but not definitive and winning the ball back is also a key part of it, see Bakinson- better at one side than the other, whereas Williams is strong at both which would help us overall in possession.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Did you see the stat though that 80% of Derby’s possession was in their OWN HALF of the pitch. Simply translated around 70% of the game overall in terms of possession was played in the Derby half. Yesterday our tactic of allowing Derby to have the ball resulted in Bentley having an easy afternoon. Yes, the possession stats do need to improve but don’t be fooled into thinking we somehow got battered yesterday. Using your own eyes tells you that the possession stats meant very little in a game we could have wrapped up in the first 45 minutes and that was also confirmed by Wayner!!

Martin miss in particular- get that 2nd goal in the 1st half, another thing we need to improve on and it would have been really quite comfortable. At 1-0 you just never know...2 of their 2nd half chances weren't that far away.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Martin miss in particular- get that 2nd goal in the 1st half, another thing we need to improve on and it would have been really quite comfortable.

It’s not only the comfort aspect but also the confidence that comes with it. We’ve started step 1, win at home, now we have to try and move on to step 2 which is win at home comfortably.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s not only the comfort aspect but also the confidence that comes with it. We’ve started step 1, win at home, now we have to try and move on to step 2 which is win at home comfortably.

True- small steps...that 2nd goal would have been great for confidence too, I know Derby are bottom and struggling even without the deduction but I had the bad nagging feeling of Blackburn at home- all the while it remained 1-0, with what was Blackburn's only shot on target they equalised.

[Bar BS3]

45 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Did you see the stat though that 80% of Derby’s possession was in their OWN HALF of the pitch. Simply translated around 70% of the game overall in terms of possession was played in the Derby half. Yesterday our tactic of allowing Derby to have the ball resulted in Bentley having an easy afternoon. Yes, the possession stats do need to improve but don’t be fooled into thinking we somehow got battered yesterday. Using your own eyes tells you that the possession stats meant very little in a game we could have wrapped up in the first 45 minutes and that was also confirmed by Wayner!!

Yeah, I didn't go yesterday, so you are right. Pointless possession is, well, pointless..! 

But it's not a 1 off that we've only seen around 30% of possession and that, in many games, will see us under pressure. 

It needs to be improved on. 

Sounds like the first half yesterday was very encouraging & Semenyo added an extra dimension to our attacking options. 

The 2nd half sounded familiarly poor though, which was disappointing, despite the result & very welcome 3 points. 

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah, I didn't go yesterday, so you are right. Pointless possession is, well, pointless..! 

But it's not a 1 off that we've only seen around 30% of possession and that, in many games, will see us under pressure. 

It needs to be improved on. 

Sounds like the first half yesterday was very encouraging & Semenyo added an extra dimension to our attacking options. 

The 2nd half sounded familiarly poor though, which was disappointing, despite the result & very welcome 3 points. 

Oh yeah, we need to look after the ball better if we are ahead in the second half of games when teams need to come at us. It’s a double whammy in that teams can’t score without the ball and in their desperation to get it back as the game wears on they will have to press more and leave gaps for us to break on them. For a team that relies on counter attacking it’s vital we improve that.

[spudski]

Reason it worked for us yesterday, is because we took the lead.

Derby tried to pull us forward to create gaps. We stood fast.

It would have bee a different story if we were losing or looking for a goal.

The facts are...if you are out of possession you are having to work physically and mentally harder.

Said before...it's no coincidence we've conceded many times at the end of games. Players are physically and mentally tired.

We did well out of possession yesterday, but it massively helped being a goal up.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, spudski said:

Reason it worked for us yesterday, is because we took the lead.

Derby tried to pull us forward to create gaps. We stood fast.

It would have bee a different story if we were losing or looking for a goal.

The facts are...if you are out of possession you are having to work physically and mentally harder.

Said before...it's no coincidence we've conceded many times at the end of games. Players are physically and mentally tired.

We did well out of possession yesterday, but it massively helped being a goal up.

1st goal in Championship is massively important.  If anything, City have bucked the trend losing late goals.  You are right though about working harder w/o the ball.

Next step in our progression is to keep the ball when under pressure and take the sting out of any control the opposition may have.

 

Out of interest, I track how many minutes we spend winning, drawing and losing each game.  We currently stand at:

Winning: 24 mins

Drawing: 43 mins

Losing: 23 mins

[CiderJar]

16 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

@Davefevs has posted a map of Derby`s passing on another thread. the overwhelming amount of it was in their own half.

This was actually quite funny, at one point in the second half they had a throw in. The ball went out level with our penalty area, but they decided to take it nearer halfway. Two passes later it was back with their goalkeeper. Surely when going for an equaliser this is taking possession based football to a strange extreme?

[bcfcredandwhite]

17 hours ago, REDOXO said:

We should have gone in three up at ht and on another day would have.
 

Possession stats are ok but pointless possession means nothing. 

Sorry but this is Bristol City we are talking about. 

I think the last time we were 3 up at half time was against nearly-relegated Sunderland back in 2018 - and we ended up drawing that game 3-3.

We don't do goals.

 

[maxjak]

Talking of "I Can't Believe"?................The Championship Team of the Week"   Has FOUR Luton Town players in it, Plus Nathan Jones as Manager of the Week?  Hmmmm?

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, CiderJar said:

This was actually quite funny, at one point in the second half they had a throw in. The ball went out level with our penalty area, but they decided to take it nearer halfway. Two passes later it was back with their goalkeeper. Surely when going for an equaliser this is taking possession based football to a strange extreme?

Don't worry we also did that in the first half. Except we took ours from the correct place.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Sorry but this is Bristol City we are talking about. 

I think the last time we were 3 up at half time was against nearly-relegated Sunderland back in 2018 - and we ended up drawing that game 3-3.

We don't do goals.

 

We were hanging on in that one. If we ever needed a wake up call ...

[Pezo]

2 poor teams in possession, the one that had the most possession lost.

Easy answer for us - don't touch the ball!