Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[Galley is our king]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

The virus doesn't choose to be different from country to country. We are all humans. It affects us the same way. The ' experts' do agree it's mild.

Seriously this is not about health and spreading anymore. 

The government listen to the experts, then put in rules that don't make any sense.

It's totally symbolic. 

You've got world leaders mixing, putting on masks for the cameras, then taking them off when meeting others, shaking hands and hugging.

Why anyone else can't see this amazes me.

These Governments, world leaders listen to the experts and scientists first hand. They get all the info. Yet they don't abide by the rules they set for us.

As human beings, you would do as advised by the Scientists. You wouldn't ignore it. So why are the Government going about their lives like there is nothing to worry about...they aren't in fear of getting ill. What do they know that we don't. They would comply whole heartedly if otherwise for their own health.

Sorry, your mixing arguments here. Of course the government should be hammered for doing what they do if it isn't within the rules set by them!

Does that mean that you would also break those rules which may increase the chances of getting ill or put others at risk of getting ill?

So two wrongs do make a right?

The virus surely might well be easier to catch in the winter. I have no idea which season SA is in, but it may be different to ours. Lots of European countries are putting in place tighter restrictions than us, are they all wrong too?

[Galley is our king]

10 minutes ago, Harry said:

You realise all those people have ‘other’ interests, don’t you. 
They’ve been put into these senior positions by the government. 
They have financial interests in pharma companies. Well, they used to work for them didn’t they. 
No one involved in any of this is ‘clean’. 

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

[Bannerman]

4 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Sorry, I don’t recognise your user name or recall any of your posting history. You’ll have to remind me of when I “had a dig at someone’s income level”. If it’s the conversation I’m thinking of then one thinks you’ve bent the truth there for your own gain. 
Accusing me of digging at someone’s income is quite laughable, given I grew up on a crumbling council estate, to a single mum due to a wifebeating dad, mum scraping by on 2 underpaid jobs trying to feed and clothe 3 kids with bugger all, ending up homeless and living in a shelter for a few weeks before my uncle could put us up before being allocated another home on the other side of Bristol. But that’s ok - you can just make stuff up, that’s fine by me. 

As I said, I left the politics forum because of my anger at vaccinating healthy children and the insatiable desire from some of the posters on there to do it - I don’t recall “getting hammered” about anything. Again, one thinks you have bent the truth somewhat. 

You have been watching too many Monty Python sketches, crumbling council estate? you were lucky!! we lived in a WW2 bomb crater.

[Riaz]

Just now, Bannerman said:

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

Bit harsh. I'd say extremely naive.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

There is no reason to bring in more restrictions. 

 

I think that's a rather complacent view. It's too early to say this variant has very mild symptoms. There are reports of some children dying in South Africa from it.

People with diabetes do not as a general rule become hospitalised with flu. Flu acts primarily as an upper respiratory infection, SARS-2-CoV spreads virons around the body: this is why it has affected organs other than just lungs.  This is why Covid has a higher case mortality rate than normal influenza.

It could be that research finds that Omicron is a milder strain and even though more infectious, it will lead to fewer hospitalisations. If it is, restrictions will no doubt be dropped. Most infections in the UK at present are Delta anyway, and we currently have more than a million people carrying the virus and that number is rising. This fact alone justifies taking extra care.

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

 

 

 

I know various people - including some on these boards - who work as doctors and nurses in hospitals. I think I'll listen to them on whether hospitals are currently being over-run, rather than someone on the internet who has no idea what is happening in hospitals but feels the need to pretend otherwise.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

Most people with underlying health conditions - diabetics included - don't get hospitalised if they get the flu. Especially as the flu jab massively drops the side effects. But, even without vaccination, flu doesn't hospitalise anywhere the numbers that COVID does.

 

If you don't know something, admit you don't know it. Making inaccurate statements that you hope to be true is very easy for everyone else to see through. You're welcome to your opinion on all this but please don't invent facts. 

[Bannerman]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

Bit harsh. I'd say extremely naive.

No is not, read the article carefully his views are “extremely naive”.

you are making it personal 

[Galley is our king]

4 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

What a an idiot, brainless moron.

Well done, an extremely well thought through and considered response.

 

[Bannerman]

Just now, Galley is our king said:

Well done, an extremely well thought through and considered response.

 

Thank you and for reconsidering your position on the matter

[Galley is our king]

1 minute ago, Bannerman said:

Thank you and for reconsidering your position on the matter

I won't change my view, idiot!

What is your view by the way? Have you anything constructive to add?

[Bannerman]

Just now, Galley is our king said:

I won't change my view, idiot!

What is your view by the way? Have you anything constructive to add?

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Bannerman said:

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

[Bannerman]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

My father is a doctor 

[JackofromSanJavier]

13 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Nicking this off Twitter but it's also an anagram of Erotic Almond so I'm not really sure what your point is...

I'm fairly sure they supported T Rex at the Colston Hall back in the 70's

Edited December 10, 2021 by JackofromSanJavier
text

[TonyTonyTony]

4 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

I never try and educate someone of a closed or narrow mind as you, it’s pointless. So enough said

All you have presented is you own opinion. No a shred of evidence to back it up, and yet he is closed minded? Pot Kettle etc

[LondonBristolian]

Just now, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

And is he working on COVID wards? 

[Galley is our king]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

How would you educate him? He has a daughter working on a COVID ward and has direct experience of the reality of the virus. You have an opinion on the internet. If you had an ounce of sense or self-reflection, you'd be asking him to educate you. 

Thanks but there's an old saying.

You can't educate pork.....

[Guest]

My last views on Vaccine Passports as I can already see the friendly bunch from the politics/covid forum have found the topic and now want to take over it with their scientific opinions and bash others that don't follow the same narrative as them.  

If "Vaccine Passports" are purely in place just to try and stop the spread of this new Omricon variant then I don't have a problem with it.  I won't be attending any games that have this "Vaccine Passport" in place but as long as it is just in place for this measure (although we have already seen in nightclubs in France that it doesn't work), then so be it.  If in another month we find out that no-one has died of Omricon and hospital numbers are not really increasing drastically then we should all expect these measures to be immediately lifted!

The reason I won't be attending the games is because I can see the "Vaccine Passport", aside from sacking Care/NHS staff as another Draconian Measure to be introduced in this country.  We all should be aware of where this can lead, @Med/MadHatter himself posted about how he is now singled out in Canada and can only visit shops and we are seeing the same across Europe.

Anyone that agrees with "Vaccine Passports" should ask themselves how far it would need to go before they didn't agree with it.  At what point could the "Vaccine Passport" become an issue for them?  At the moment the majority of people don't have an issue with it,  double/triple jabbed and its simple to carry the passport as an app on the phone.   But perhaps some people have opted against having their kids vaccinated for now...what if they UP the "Vaccine Passports" for children and then you can't take your kids to the game?  What if they add another "Vaccine" to the "Vaccine Passport" that you don't think you need or want?  Would that then effect you when you lost your passport or were forced into taking a vaccine you didn't think you needed?  It all depends on whether this is a temporary measure or a money making exercise but the fact that every country is following the same narrative suggests is more about £££ than health.  The timing of the announcement couldn't be more perfect either, just as Boris is at threat to resign over a Christmas party he announces Plan B. 

Everyone has been effected by this Pandemic, we all have stories, some worse than others but everyone has been effected in some way.  It is not a selfish act to say we don't want "Vaccine Passports" in place.

[Galley is our king]

2 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

A doctor specialising in what?

[Harry]

30 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

 No conspiracy at all sir. All verified information. Check it for yourself. Those persons you mention have worked in high places in pharma companies and are appointed by the government to the positions they currently hold. Some have financial interests in those companies. 
 

As for your next part - I haven’t denied covid or think there is any conspiracy. I know personally that covid is very real, having both had it myself and have family who have died from covid. So I think you get me wrong there, sir. 
Never have I denied covid doesn’t exist and that it is a very real issue, and that those who work in the nhs have had it tough. You’ll see from one of my earlier posts on this thread that I have praised people such as your daughter. 
However you’ll also see from my other posts that I believe the government (and their advisors and experts) have done nothing to help your daughter over the last 20 months and have absolutely no interest to do so. They have done nothing to get us through this virus except for “get jabbed”. That’s their only policy. And it’s one that lines many pockets. Where are the extra beds, where are the extra nurses, where is the well deserved extra pay for your daughter and her colleagues, where is the support to those most vulnerable (ie high BMI) to help them lose weight, eat healthily, get fit, to give them a much better outcome if they contract the virus, where are the army of nutritionists helping these people rather than an army of jabbers and an army of contact tracers? There are a myriad of things this government could have been doing to improve people’s outcomes but they’ve chosen to do nothing apart from continually put restrictions in place and “get jabbing”. 
If you trust any of them, not just Boris and his crony crew, but the so called ‘experts’, and you think they are all coming from an angle of ‘what’s best for your health’ then you are very wrong. Sage is full of scientific modellers and psychoanalysts. Why don’t they have any nutritionists advising them? Tell me one thing that they’ve put in place to help the actual health of the nation rather than just “jab jab jab”? 
As I say, no conspiracy sir. Covid exists. It’s not nice. But there are other things that can be and should’ve been done to help which are being ignored in favour of the huge money making policy they are following. 

25 minutes ago, pillred said:

You have been watching too many Monty Python sketches, crumbling council estate? you were lucky!! we lived in a WW2 bomb crater.

Yep. Horfield. Eden Grove & Emerson Square. Buildings had concrete cancer. They were falling apart. After we moved out the whole estate was torn down a year later and rebuilt. 
So yes. It was crumbling. No comedy sketch required. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Riaz]

Big Pharma is a very greedy and extremely corrupt industry. If you dont think this is true - i suggest educating yourself.

[Bristol Rob]

10 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

My father is a doctor 

Is he a GP who was given an honorary doctorate, or a Dr?

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Big Pharma is a very greedy and extremely corrupt industry. If you dont think this is true - i suggest educating yourself.

I don't think very many people dispute that. Pharamaceuticals is basically socialism for the rich - countries (including the UK) contribute millions to the cost of drug development only for big companies to take all the profits and sell back to the countries the drugs that countries have paid to develop.

The whole economic model is shocking.

But that doesn't change the fact that the researchers, scientists and medical experts who work for pharmaceutical companies are indeed researchers, scientists and medical experts and the level of testing any drug - including the vaccines - has to go through is high, with effective safeguards in place to manage risks. 

The economic model of pharamaceutical companies is appalling but that doesn't change the fact that the drugs they produce only make it to market once proven to work and to not cause harm and - once on the market - the monitoring processes are stringent. Drug companies are arseholes but the medicines they make are not the same as the economic system that produces them. 

[Riaz]

4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't think very many people dispute that. Pharamaceuticals is basically socialism for the rich - countries (including the UK) contribute millions to the cost of drug development only for big companies to take all the profits and sell back to the countries the drugs that countries have paid to develop.

The whole economic model is shocking.

But that doesn't change the fact that the researchers, scientists and medical experts who work for pharmaceutical companies are indeed researchers, scientists and medical experts and the level of testing any drug - including the vaccines - has to go through is high, with effective safeguards in place to manage risks. 

The economic model of pharamaceutical companies is appalling but that doesn't change the fact that the drugs they produce only make it to market once proven to work and to not cause harm and - once on the market - the monitoring processes are stringent. Drug companies are arseholes but the medicines they make are not the same as the economic system that produces them. 

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

[pillred]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

 No conspiracy at all sir. All verified information. Check it for yourself. Those persons you mention have worked in high places in pharma companies and are appointed by the government to the positions they currently hold. Some have financial interests in those companies. 
 

As for your next part - I haven’t denied covid or think there is any conspiracy. I know personally that covid is very real, having both had it myself and have family who have died from covid. So I think you get me wrong there, sir. 
Never have I denied covid doesn’t exist and that it is a very real issue, and that those who work in the nhs have had it tough. You’ll see from one of my earlier posts on this thread that I have praised people such as your daughter. 
However you’ll also see from my other posts that I believe the government (and their advisors and experts) have done nothing to help your daughter over the last 20 months and have absolutely no interest to do so. They have done nothing to get us through this virus except for “get jabbed”. That’s their only policy. And it’s one that lines many pockets. Where are the extra beds, where are the extra nurses, where is the well deserved extra pay for your daughter and her colleagues, where is the support to those most vulnerable (ie high BMI) to help them lose weight, eat healthily, get fit, to give them a much better outcome if they contract the virus, where are the army of nutritionists helping these people rather than an army of jabbers and an army of contact tracers? There are a myriad of things this government could have been doing to improve people’s outcomes but they’ve chosen to do nothing apart from continually put restrictions in place and “get jabbing”. 
If you trust any of them, not just Boris and his crony crew, but the so called ‘experts’, and you think they are all coming from an angle of ‘what’s best for your health’ then you are very wrong. Sage is full of scientific modellers and psychoanalysts. Why don’t they have any nutritionists advising them? Tell me one thing that they’ve put in place to help the actual health of the nation rather than just “jab jab jab”? 
As I say, no conspiracy sir. Covid exists. It’s not nice. But there are other things that can be and should’ve been done to help which are being ignored in favour of the huge money making policy they are following. 

Yep. Horfield. Eden Grove & Emerson Square. Buildings had concrete cancer. They were falling apart. After we moved out the whole estate was torn down a year later and rebuilt. 
So yes. It was crumbling. No comedy sketch required. 

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

[LondonBristolian]

6 minutes ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

Which is why you need the systems in place to prevent abuse. And those systems are there.

[Kid in the Riot]

19 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

My last views on Vaccine Passports as I can already see the friendly bunch from the politics/covid forum have found the topic and now want to take over it with their scientific opinions and bash others that don't follow the same narrative as them.

You sound like an evangelical Christian from a flyover state. 

"Don't come around here with your "science"!" 

[Harry]

8 minutes ago, pillred said:

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

I said they’ve done nothing for your health. 
Oh, they’ve helped financially. Money is their expertise. 
Tell me one campaign they’ve funded to help morbidly obese people to help themselves. 80% of those who end up in icu are obese. What have they done to mitigate this. To help these people achieve better outcomes. 
When did you last hear from the governments specialist nutritionists? Do they even have any? Could £36 billion have been spent on setting up one to one consultations with the most vulnerable people and help them to achieve a better outcome. You think this kind of thing is misguided?? 
You think it’s misguided to call for help and support for the most vulnerable and to call for extra support and facilities for the nhs?? You think this is misguided?? 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

 

Have you really thought through how many politicians, scientists, doctors, nurses, statisticians, even undertakers and so on would have to be "bought" to maintain a phoney Pandemic? In every country of the world.

Everyone from Jacinta Arden to Kim Jong Un from Angela Merkel to Vladimir Putin to Justin Trudeau etc etc etc.

How big a bribe do you think Pfizer/AZ/Moderna/Johnson & Johnson have paid to persuade democratic leaders to do something that adversely affects their nation's economy and makes them likely to lose power?  Not just couldnt-care-less shits like Johnson, but proper, decent politicians. 

And why wouldn't the rival Big Pharma companies call this out if a massive fraud - bigger than anything in human history - is being perpetrated on the world by their competitors?

And why would not-for-profit institutions, like our universities, get involved? The Chinese and Russian vaccines were developed and are distributed by state institutions and are not sold for profit. If it's all a scam for cash, why are they involved?

While there have been people cashing in throughout this Pandemic, shamelessly enabled by our government, the idea that the entire thing is made-up or exaggerated for the benefit of four companies is nuts.  

We know from Watergate that you can't keep a conspiracy hushed up for weeks, even when it involves fewer than a dozen people. Right here, "partygate" leaked to the Mirror, even though apparently only 30-40 attended.

To maintain a global conspiracy for two years involving bribes from pharmaceutical companies to literally tens of thousands of people if not hundreds of thousands of people, a whistleblower would have emerged with concrete evidence.  None has.

The whole idea is a fantasy. 

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Have you really thought through how many politicians, scientists, doctors, nurses, statisticians, even undertakers and so on would have to be "bought" to maintain a phoney Pandemic? In every country of the world.

Everyone from Jacinta Arden to Kim Jong Un from Angela Merkel to Vladimir Putin to Justin Trudeau etc etc etc.

How big a bribe do you think Pfizer/AZ/Moderna/Johnson & Johnson have paid to persuade democratic leaders to do something that adversely affects their nation's economy and makes them likely to lose power?  Not just couldnt-care-less shits like Johnson, but proper, decent politicians. 

And why wouldn't the rival Big Pharma companies call this out if a massive fraud - bigger than anything in human history - is being perpetrated on the world by their competitors?

And why would not-for-profit institutions, like our universities, get involved? The Chinese and Russian vaccines were developed and are distributed by state institutions and are not sold for profit. If it's all a scam for cash, why are they involved?

While there have been people cashing in throughout this Pandemic, shamelessly enabled by our government, the idea that the entire thing is made-up or exaggerated for the benefit of four companies is nuts.  

We know from Watergate that you can't keep a conspiracy hushed up for weeks, even when it involves fewer than a dozen people. Right here, "partygate" leaked to the Mirror, even though apparently only 30-40 attended.

To maintain a global conspiracy for two years involving bribes from pharmaceutical companies to literally tens of thousands of people if not hundreds of thousands of people, a whistleblower would have emerged with concrete evidence.  None has.

The whole idea is a fantasy. 

You wouldnt need too many people in on it.

[spudski]

47 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I know various people - including some on these boards - who work as doctors and nurses in hospitals. I think I'll listen to them on whether hospitals are currently being over-run, rather than someone on the internet who has no idea what is happening in hospitals but feels the need to pretend otherwise.

Most people with underlying health conditions - diabetics included - don't get hospitalised if they get the flu. Especially as the flu jab massively drops the side effects. But, even without vaccination, flu doesn't hospitalise anywhere the numbers that COVID does.

 

If you don't know something, admit you don't know it. Making inaccurate statements that you hope to be true is very easy for everyone else to see through. You're welcome to your opinion on all this but please don't invent facts. 

I'm not...your comment of ' I know people' doesn't hold. So do I...and all of them disagree. If people on front line disagree, what hope do we have. 

My father was in Southmead at the height of restrictions with Brain Tumor. When I went to visit, the place was virtually empty. Never seen a hospital so quiet. So we all have different experiences. 

The one thing that's obvious, is that we've all become divided, all become 'experts' depending on who we listen to, all have made our own decisions based on those we listen too.

Fact is...we are becoming less human. Don't mix is the mantra...avoid people. If that isn't going to screw us up long term then I don't know what is.

On a side note...anyone thinking Scientists, experts don't have an angle then they are severely naive. All are paid by organisations, Governments, Pharmaceutical industries etc that have people that make vast amounts of money from this scenario. There is no reason they want to this situation to conclude, it's in their benefit. It's the same as when we have wars...people die, but a lot of people who aren't affected by the war make Billions from them.

We live in a world of agenda and lies. And it's Joe public that bares the brunt of it.

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, pillred said:

Sounds like we had a very similar upbringing amazing how different we have both turned out. I have no idea how old you are but I'm hoping there is still time for you to come to your senses, no denying some have made a great deal of money out of this but to say the government have done nothing to get us through this is frankly laughable, how about paying millions of people 80% of their wages and almost certainly saving many companies from going bankrupt with all the job loses that would have entailed, I have no idea where you get these views from but some of them are misguided at best.

The government get next to no credit from me for the furlough scheme for one simple reason; they literally had no choice. The only alternative they had was, like you say, to put thousands of businesses out of business and millions on the dole, which would have cost them considerably more money and also probably seen mass protests and the government collapsing. They had no choice, zero. 

11 minutes ago, Harry said:

I said they’ve done nothing for your health. 
Oh, they’ve helped financially. Money is their expertise. 
Tell me one campaign they’ve funded to help morbidly obese people to help themselves. 80% of those who end up in icu are obese. What have they done to mitigate this. To help these people achieve better outcomes. 
When did you last hear from the governments specialist nutritionists? Do they even have any? Could £36 billion have been spent on setting up one to one consultations with the most vulnerable people and help them to achieve a better outcome. You think this kind of thing is misguided?? 
You think it’s misguided to call for help and support for the most vulnerable and to call for extra support and facilities for the nhs?? You think this is misguided?? 

They have began this process to be fair: The government commissioned National Food Strategy published early this year. 200 pages long and lots of excellent recommendations. It looks like most of it will be adopted as government policy, however Johnson is opposed to one of its key pillars - a tax levy on sugar and salt. It's true to say this is classic Johnson not putting people's health first, and instead being more worried about his popularity ratings. 

There has already been a sugary drinks tax levy brought in a couple of years ago, which has been successful. 

[plumb]

I often wonder what the benefits to peoples health would have been if the government and scientific advisors had used half as much effort encouraging people to get fit and healthy that they used in warning people of the dangers of covid, and the fear this has had on so many.

We know 1 million people get admitted to hospital each year (2,700 a day) where being overweight is a factor, and we know covid disproportionately effects those that are overweight - but not a whisper.

 

What huge benefits to peoples health there could have been if Boris or Chris Whitty just took 20 seconds during a press conference to encourage people to see a doctor if they have concerns about their health (and encourage those that are not visiting a doctor as are scared to catch covid or be a burden on the NHS), given we know advanced stages of cancer, heart disease and strokes are through the roof - not a whisper.

Edited December 10, 2021 by bbew

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The government get next to no credit from me for the furlough scheme for one simple reason; they literally had no choice. The only alternative they had was, like you say, to put thousands of businesses out of business and millions on the dole, which would have cost them considerably more money and also probably seen mass protests and the government collapsing. They had no choice, zero. 

They have began this process to be fair: The government commissioned National Food Strategy published early this year. 200 pages long and lots of excellent recommendations. It looks like most of it will be adopted as government policy, however Johnson is opposed to one of its key pillars - a tax levy on sugar and salt. It's true to say this is classic Johnson not putting people's health first, and instead being more worried about his popularity ratings. 

There has already been a sugary drinks tax levy brought in a couple of years ago, which has been successful. 

The food strategy is not specific to covid though. What have they done to specifically target those persons who are at most risk of dying from covid - those with high BMI? 
The £36 billion spunked on t&t could have paid for 1.2 million people at a salary of £30k. That’s how far that money goes. 
Why isn’t there an army of nutritionists, personal trainers, mentors etc, personally visiting those who are at highest risk, putting them on health programmes, teaching them to eat healthily, mentoring them to a new lifestyle to mitigate their major risk factor. 
Doing that could massively slash the number of people who end up in icu. 
The food strategy that you mention has absolutely zero traction in the real lives of the real people who need help to get healthy. 
As you say, in agreement with what I posted, they haven’t even got their own food strategy right because of concerns over money rather than concerns over the actual health of the population. As I said. None of these people care about your health. Demonstrated by the fact they’ve done absolutely bugger all to help those most at risk of covid due to specific health issues that they can help correct for a better outcome. 
 

They don’t care about you. They don’t care about anyone. They care only for themselves. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, bbew said:

I often wonder what the benefits to peoples health would have been if the government and scientific advisors had used half as much effort encouraging people to get fit and healthy that they used in warning people of the dangers of covid, and the fear this has had on so many.

We know 1 million people get admitted to hospital each year (2,700 a day) where being overweight is a factor, and we know covid disproportionately effects those that are overweight - but not a whisper.

 

What huge benefits to peoples health there could have been if Boris or Chris Whitty just took 20 seconds during a press conference to encourage people to see a doctor if they have concerns about their health (and encourage those that are not visiting a doctor as are scared to catch covid or be a burden on the NHS), given we know advanced stages of cancer, heart disease and strokes are through the roof - not a whisper.

Far too many people want the easy way out.  The easy way out for most is to roll up their sleeve and get the booster and then head off to Greggs for their fix.   

You are right though, if they used the same scare tactics to encourage people to exercise then it might scare them enough to get off their sofa's.  

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Hospitals aren't being overrun. This variant has very mild symptoms. You get it and recover at home. 

The people vulnerable are those with underlying health issues like diabetes. They'd be hospitalised like most years if they caught the flu.

There is no reason to bring in more restrictions. 

Two years now...new mutations, new boosters, it just goes on and on. 

Are you willing to go through the rest of your life living this way? Because it's not going away...ever. It will mutate every year, just like the flu. There will be new vaccines every year, just like flu.

Politicians lie to us everyday...funnily we are outraged the most because of a few parties. We should be outraged everyday at their lies.

Oddly we know they lie, manipulate media, pay people etc etc. It's been the way of Governments for ever.

Yet the population believe every word coming out of their mouths on this issue. Without question..just follow. 

How divided we all have become. 

 

 

The new variant clearly spreads quicker.  It also appears to be milder. If it was looking more severe we'd be ******.

 

That will mean more cases but a lower percentage of these cases leading to serious illness.

What we don't know is whether the total number of serious illness cases will increase. Depends on the exact percentages and numbers and will probably only become clear around Christmas.

Any scientist or mathematician would be cautious in this scenario but the experts on OTIB know better

 

[Guest]

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

[Red-Robbo]

31 minutes ago, Riaz said:

You wouldnt need too many people in on it.

 

Er, I think to get the leaders of 200 odd nations to go along with it, you'd need a pretty big conspiracy and involving the most eminent people in their field.

It is true that there are a tiny number of Covid-sceptic scientists, but no-one who works currently in the field of virology, epidemiology or pharmacology is saying Covid is anything other than it is - the dangerous zoonotic pandemic that experts had warned might be coming, but politicians ignored because preparing for pandemics is costly and not a "sexy" vote-winner.   On average, human society suffers a pandemic every hundred years. "Spanish flu" our last one, was 1918-1920, so this one was pretty much right on schedule. No "Big Pharma" involved in that one, or the Black Death, Plague of Justinian etc etc.

We have doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who post on this board. They have seen Covid deaths up close and know how under-pressure hospital services are.  Are you saying they are liars?

Edited December 10, 2021 by Red-Robbo

[phantom]

The English Football League has reportedly issued new advice to segregate players into those who are doubled jabbed against coronavirus, boosted, previously infected and unvaccinated on team coaches.

The Government has introduced new measures to try to tackle the spread of the Omicron variant and now the EFL, which covers the three leagues beneath the Premier League, has taken steps in an effort to limit the impact within football.

The 72 clubs across the Championship, League One and League Two are being instructed to think about how they split up their players when travelling to and from matches to try to reduce possible transmission, according to The Telegraph. 

The report also claims that the EFL's guidance is that goalkeepers within its divisions should not train together to lessen the chance of becoming a 'close contact' should there be a positive Covid test and therefore reduce the likelihood of disruption.

The EFL have reportedly sent all of its members new guidance to consider until the end of next month in a bid to prevent matches being postponed over what is a typically jam-packed festive period.

While the Premier League has also contacted all 20 top-flight clubs to re-impose their emergency Covid measures, and both football bodies strongly advise against Christmas parties this month. 

EFL players have also been instructed to bear in mind contact 'outside of their bubble', social distancing while at work, including not all sitting down for meals at the same time.

The news comes after Tottenham's Premier League clash against Brighton, scheduled for Sunday, was postponed due to the Covid outbreak within the camp. Spurs also saw Thursday's European Conference League match against Rennes called off.

As coronavirus continues to take grip of English football, top-flight officials have sent a memo to all clubs informing them of the decision to revert back to emergency measures.

Teams have been forced to abide by a stringent set of protocols since the return of football in June 2020, including social distancing and the use of PPE at training grounds, but those have slowly relaxed in recent months thanks to increasing vaccination rates among players.

But the Premier League have told all 20 teams that the long-standing emergency measures are now back in place.

Meanwhile, proof of coronavirus vaccination or a negative lateral flow test will be required for spectators to attend sporting events in England with crowds of over 10,000 after the Government announced it is to implement 'Plan B'.

[CyderInACan]

9 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

How have they been forced or coerced to get the jab? 

[lenred]

10 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

Cool story. Thanks for sharing.  

[spudski]

14 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The new variant clearly spreads quicker.  It also appears to be milder. If it was looking more severe we'd be ******.

 

That will mean more cases but a lower percentage of these cases leading to serious illness.

What we don't know is whether the total number of serious illness cases will increase. Depends on the exact percentages and numbers and will probably only become clear around Christmas.

Any scientist or mathematician would be cautious in this scenario but the experts on OTIB know better

 

Yes...go about your life and proceed with caution. Wear a mask if you want. Vaccine if you want. And if you have underlying health issues proceed with even more caution. We don't need the restrictions in place now though that don't make any sense. There is no need for a passport for a vaccine, and why be made to wear a mask in a supermarket when I can sing and dance elsewhere, drink in packed pub, go to the enclosed gym and breath heavily inside there. 

People think you are the most selfish person if I walk around supermarket with no mask...but I can be sat next to said person in packed pub, enclosed sharing drinks etc. It's mental.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...go about your life and proceed with caution. Wear a mask if you want. Vaccine if you want. And if you have underlying health issues proceed with even more caution. We don't need the restrictions in place now though that don't make any sense. There is no need for a passport for a vaccine, and why be made to wear a mask in a supermarket when I can sing and dance elsewhere, drink in packed pub, go to the enclosed gym and breath heavily inside there. 

People think you are the most selfish person if I walk around supermarket with no mask...but I can be sat next to said person in packed pub, enclosed sharing drinks etc. It's mental.

I do think the pub thing is the weird standout in all of this. Why it hasn’t gone back to table service I don’t really know.  Definitely some foibles in the rules but some better than none.  

[Red-Robbo]

31 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

 

How young are the children and which country insists on having the entire family vaccinated?

In the UK, vaccines are not routinely offered to under-13s.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

How young are the children and which country insists on having the entire family vaccinated?

In the UK, vaccines are not routinely offered to under-13s.

They have 4 children so an array for ages ranging from 16 to 5.  They holiday pretty much everywhere, from cruises in the Caribbean to Skiing trips and sunshine holidays in Europe.

[Red-Robbo]

15 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

They have 4 children so an array for ages ranging from 16 to 5.  They holiday pretty much everywhere, from cruises in the Caribbean to Skiing trips and sunshine holidays in Europe.

 

But all the UK requires is holidaymakers coming back from abroad test and potentially isolate if they've been in certain high-infection countries:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-abroad-from-england-during-coronavirus-covid-19

If any country requires all visitors to be vaccinated, then that is their policy, not the UK government's.  I'm unaware of any country that requires proof of vaccination for under-12s, certainly Greece and Spain do not, so your friends can still have a foreign holiday.

 

[The Bard]

55 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Was chatting to some friends of ours last night (early 40's with 4 kids).  They were the first in the queue to get their jabs as all they wanted to do was to get on holiday and get some sun, which they achieved this summer.  Now they realize in order to do the same again next summer they will need to get a booster and vaccinate their young children as well.  This has resulted in them believing they were forced or coerced into getting the jab by the Government.

Listen I don't know your friends, and this will probably sound rude, but they don't half sound infantile. 

 

And that is basically the problem if you ask me. Literally millions of people who don't understand the concept of personal responsibility.  Johnson really is their Prime Minister.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Listen I don't know your friends, and this will probably sound rude, but they don't half sound infantile. 

 

And that is basically the problem if you ask me. Literally millions of people who don't understand the concept of personal responsibility.  Johnson really is their Prime Minister.  

I don't think you can put this solely on Johnson's shoulders, can't really see any other party challenging to step up as nobody wants it.  I also feel like a lot of the country are under the same opinion that they have been misled/misguided/lied to and that number is growing everyday and the rest are living in fear.

[DT The Optimist]

Really enjoyed this thread. Footie fans, key board warriors like me  experts on the pharmaceutical indiustry, to government conspiracy’s and the like.

All I know is I am jabbed up, was mildly Poorly with covid in 2020 and now I can go to the Gate provided provided I have the vaccine  passport or  negative LFT result. No big deal. 
Yesterday  I was at the NEC BIKE show. Could only gain admittance with the above. Not a hint of anyone bellyaching moaning about it. Guess if you did not have the above you never turned up.  your choice. Still heaving with people. 

As a side issue and as a bit of fun I did not show my vaccine passport  stamp at NEC entrance but instead my Tesco club card app which is similar colour and appearance. In I went. Nothing was scanned. Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

[James54De]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

The virus doesn't choose to be different from country to country. We are all humans. It affects us the same way. The ' experts' do agree it's mild.

Seriously this is not about health and spreading anymore. 

The government listen to the experts, then put in rules that don't make any sense.

It's totally symbolic. 

You've got world leaders mixing, putting on masks for the cameras, then taking them off when meeting others, shaking hands and hugging.

Why anyone else can't see this amazes me.

These Governments, world leaders listen to the experts and scientists first hand. They get all the info. Yet they don't abide by the rules they set for us.

As human beings, you would do as advised by the Scientists. You wouldn't ignore it. So why are the Government going about their lives like there is nothing to worry about...they aren't in fear of getting ill. What do they know that we don't. They would comply whole heartedly if otherwise for their own health.

scientists don’t agree it’s “mild”. It has been stated that verrrryyy early indications suggest it may lead to shorter hospital stays and less deaths. Encouraging indications? yes. Agreement? Absolutely not. There was also the same things being said about Alpha, and that ended up cause higher rates of hospitalisation and death than previous strains. 
In fact, hospitalisations are now ticking up in the UK, about a week after cases did, so who knows. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Blimey lot of bickering.

Safe too say some are getting the needle...

[2015]

3 hours ago, Galley is our king said:

Well you have written some tosh on this subject but this takes the biscuit! 

Some bloody conspiracy theory that is!

I cannot agree with ANY of this, I'm sorry but you must be a complete tool!

Perhaps if you, like me, had a loved one (daughter) who spent time on a covid ward trying to help people, doing your upmost to help them only to watch them die and then having to ring their relatives time and time and time again you might have a different view.

GET THE JAB AND WEAR A ******* MASK!!!!

You sound very pleasant and reasonable

[The Bard]

8 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

I don't think you can put this solely on Johnson's shoulders, can't really see any other party challenging to step up as nobody wants it.  I also feel like a lot of the country are under the same opinion that they have been misled/misguided/lied to and that number is growing everyday and the rest are living in fear.

That wasn't my point.

The Prime minister has no concept of personal responsibility and that's why he's been popular with a lot of people inspite of being useless. A lot of people see themselves in him. However,  this is the real world and it will always catch up with such a serial bullshitter ( a la Mark Ashton).

 

[BrizzleRed]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

They are human. And humans can be corrupted, pressured or coerced.

As can the conspiracy theorists, So what’s the difference?

[Clevedon Red]

57 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

Are all the stewards asked to show a passport before working?

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, DT The Optimist said:

Really enjoyed this thread. Footie fans, key board warriors like me  experts on the pharmaceutical indiustry, to government conspiracy’s and the like.

All I know is I am jabbed up, was mildly Poorly with covid in 2020 and now I can go to the Gate provided provided I have the vaccine  passport or  negative LFT result. No big deal. 
Yesterday  I was at the NEC BIKE show. Could only gain admittance with the above. Not a hint of anyone bellyaching moaning about it. Guess if you did not have the above you never turned up.  your choice. Still heaving with people. 

As a side issue and as a bit of fun I did not show my vaccine passport  stamp at NEC entrance but instead my Tesco club card app which is similar colour and appearance. In I went. Nothing was scanned. Wonder what the stewards will do at AG 

 

 

I'll never forget a time I was shown round a big military base in the company of lots of other journalists.  

It was top security as it was in the early 90s when the IRA were still active in England, and there were lots of Top Brass and other VIPs at this event. You had to flash a special pass with photo ID at the gate to be allowed in, then show it again to meet the generals and ministers in attendance.

A friend of mine who I'll keep anonymous for his own good had pasted a picture of a gorilla from Planet of the Apes on his pass instead of his own photo. He was waved through the perimeter gates without a qualm by two banks of sentries. 

Ah, the good old British squaddie.  

[Harry]

19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I'll never forget a time I was shown round a big military base in the company of lots of other journalists.  

It was top security as it was in the early 90s when the IRA were still active in England, and there were lots of Top Brass and other VIPs at this event. You had to flash a special pass with photo ID at the gate to be allowed in, then show it again to meet the generals and ministers in attendance.

A friend of mine who I'll keep anonymous for his own good had pasted a picture of a gorilla from Planet of the Apes on his pass instead of his own photo. He was waved through the perimeter gates without a qualm by two banks of sentries. 

Ah, the good old British squaddie.  

Clearly the squaddie looked at the picture of the gorilla, looked at you both (likely giggling like schoolgirls about your hilarious prank) and thought “the IRA aren’t even as dense as these idiot journo’s - just go on through and get out of my life”. 

[Red-Robbo]

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

Clearly the squaddie looked at the picture of the gorilla, looked at you both (likely giggling like schoolgirls about your hilarious prank) and thought “the IRA aren’t even as dense as these idiot journo’s - just go on through and get out of my life”. 

 I heard about this later, I was not in the same car.  

Still this guy could have been anyone. The squaddies (plural) were not doing their job. Didn't care about others' safety.  I wonder if they are anti-vaxxers now?

[Harry]

14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 I heard about this later, I was not in the same car.  

Still this guy could have been anyone. The squaddies (plural) were not doing their job. Didn't care about others' safety.  I wonder if they are anti-vaxxers now?

Probably. I’ve met a helluva lot of good squaddies. Salt of the earth. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Harry said:

Probably. I’ve met a helluva lot of good squaddies. Salt of the earth. 

 

I was in the Army. I'd say they are variable. 

[Harry]

18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I was in the Army. I'd say they are variable. 

There’s always an exception to the rule. 
Squaddies = Good. 
Journo’s = Bad. 
Squaddie turned Journo = Steer clear 

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

There’s always an exception to the rule. 
Squaddies = Good. 
Journo’s = Bad. 
Squaddie turned Journo = Steer clear 

 

You'll be safe up at Forest Green. 

You're up against Mansfield, Saturday week and I think you've a big West Country derby v Exeter City to cheer soon.  

I even believe there's a Covid vaccination centre at their stadium - the Fully Charged New Lawn as it is now known for sponsorship reasons. 

[Harry]

8 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

You'll be safe up at Forest Green. 

You're up against Mansfield, Saturday week and I think you've a big West Country derby v Exeter City to cheer soon.  

I even believe there's a Covid vaccination centre at their stadium - the Fully Charged New Lawn as it is now known for sponsorship reasons. 

Yep. Been up there 4 times already this season. I’m familiar with the facilities. 
Enjoy the ‘Fully Vaxxed Ashton Gate’. I’m sure no one will catch any virus as you are all now ‘Fully Immune’. At least that what’s many people incorrectly believe having been ‘fully lied to’.  

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

Yep. Been up there 4 times already this season. I’m familiar with the facilities. 
Enjoy the ‘Fully Vaxxed Ashton Gate’. I’m sure no one will catch any virus as you are all now ‘Fully Immune’. At least that what’s many people incorrectly believe having been ‘fully lied to’.  

 

Does anyone really think that? Anyone said that here, or are you just imagining it?

Anyoldhow, here's the new forum for you to discuss football and your vaccine theories. They even have a Coronavirus sub-forum. I'm sure you'll win a legion of fans:

https://forum.fgr.co.uk/

 

[MarcusX]

On 09/12/2021 at 10:31, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Now that's worth knowing.

I have a pack of LFTs because I (and everyone, not just me) was asked to take one before a social occasion which I was happy to do.

I have massive reservations about taking a vaccine for which the long established standard medical trials have simply been waived but I am perfectly happy to take regular LFTs before going anywhere crowded.

I hadn't realised that that was an option, albeit in Wales at present where I am not, but it does seem a particularly sensible option.

I distrust the vaccines but wouldn't want to spread Covid if I have it and taking a LFT solves that for events; and I would take the test as I'm not trying to "game" the system.

I'm aware that they're not 100% accurate but they're not bad.

What's been waived?

[MarcusX]

On 09/12/2021 at 11:20, Riaz said:

Lockdowns didnt work

Masks didnt work

Vaccine didnt work

Boosters arent working

If you are under 60 without any ailments, get on with your life.

If you are over 60 OR have an underlying health condition, take precautions - get family to do your shopping etc.

Lockdowns did work for their purpose

Vaccines are working, that's why we arent in the same position we were last Christmas

You know that over 50% of adults are overweight and about a quarter are clinically obese? That puts them in the higher risk. It's about "having ailments". I bet far more people are higher "risk" than they realise for starters.

I'm not promoting another lockdown though FWIW

[MarcusX]

On 09/12/2021 at 13:38, bbew said:

The consequences of having or not having restrictions could be debated forever.  All most people who questioned them wanted however was a cost benefit analysis. 

We now know an estimated 740,000 possible cancer cases have been missed.  Many of these because since lockdown there have been 36 million fewer doctors consultations.  So may have been scared to get checked out as they didn't want to risk catching covid or being a burden on the NHS. 

 

Again, the 400,000 to 500,000 deaths prediction and the basis of this could be debated forever.  We should also never forget the initial panic back in March 2020 and very few would question the initial lockdown when so much was uncertain.

You do have to bear in mind however this prediction was made by the same person who predicted:

2001 - 150,000 deaths from foot and mouth - actual <200

2002 - 50,000 deaths from BSE - actual 177

2005 - 150,000,000 deaths from bird flu - actual 282

2009 - 65,000 deaths from swine flu - actual 457

 

 

I question some of these stats and remarks personally.

It's terrible cancer cases have been missed, I have a good friend who luckily wasnt one of them that was missed however to blame it on lockdown etc is shortsighted.

If we hadn't locked down do you think those people would have got seen? It's quite possible that thousands more people would have been dying and needing medical attention and services would have been stretched further.

Not sure about 36 million fewer doctor consultations? From listening to Doctors on the radio etc they have seen a massive increase in demand for appointments - moving to phone consultations has helped them speak to MORE people than they otherwise would have and enabled them to triage who needs to come in, who could just go to the pharmacist and who needs to go to A&E. Freeing them up to see the people who really need to be seen.

Most of these GPs have done this in their own time, or worked extra hours to accomodate this.

This link says October was 10% higher than pre-covid 2019 numbers, that's 3 million more appointments in a month: https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/pressures-in-general-practice

It also says face to face appointments increased by 12% too

Not denying there has been some bad handling of this though

[Harry]

37 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Does anyone really think that? Anyone said that here, or are you just imagining it?

Anyoldhow, here's the new forum for you to discuss football and your vaccine theories. They even have a Coronavirus sub-forum. I'm sure you'll win a legion of fans:

https://forum.fgr.co.uk/

 

Thanks for the link. I’m fully signed up and will no doubt make some friends soon. I just hope there are no sanctimonious ex-bbc journo’s on their forum. 
 

As for “does anyone think that”. Ha ha. You’d be amazed. I’ve seen a remarkable amount of comments on Twitter from people who think the vaccinated can’t pass it on and only the unvaxxed represent any danger to them. There are a very sorry number of folks out there who genuinely believe they won’t get covid from a fellow vaxxed person. 
It’s called conditioning. That’s what happened to these people. It’s very sad to see and I hope no-one suffers any consequences from being conditioned to believe that they are only in danger from an unvaxxed person. 
 

Of course, they’ve been gleefully helped along with this conditioning by your ex-employer and your other old media colleagues. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Red-Robbo]

39 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks for the link. I’m fully signed up and will no doubt make some friends soon. I just hope there are no sanctimonious ex-bbc journo’s on their forum. 
 

As for “does anyone think that”. Ha ha. You’d be amazed. I’ve seen a remarkable amount of comments on Twitter from people who think the vaccinated can’t pass it on and only the unvaxxed represent any danger to them. There are a very sorry number of folks out there who genuinely believe they won’t get covid from a fellow vaxxed person. 
It’s called conditioning. That’s what happened to these people. It’s very sad to see and I hope no-one suffers any consequences from being conditioned to believe that they are only in danger from an unvaxxed person. 
 

Of course, they’ve been gleefully helped along with this conditioning by your ex-employer and your other old media colleagues. 

 

I would say the fact that restrictions are being put back in place is precisely because vaccination isn't infallible and infection levels are high.

And, hey, I hold no brief for the BBC. Why not write to them to complain - with suitable examples, of course. You can append "...and pay Red-Robbo Ltd the £84,000 you've owed them since 2017" to your note.  

All joking aside, what do you expect Bristol City to do about this government edict?

You're a fan, so I guess you want the best for our club, but staying away may not only rob them of a bit of match day revenue, but if enough people do it would diminish spend available next season.  The club doesn't really have an option other than to bring this in. If they "took a stand" they'd be penalised and potentially shut down