Vaccine Passport - Plan B

[pillred]

5 hours ago, James54De said:

scientists don’t agree it’s “mild”. It has been stated that verrrryyy early indications suggest it may lead to shorter hospital stays and less deaths. Encouraging indications? yes. Agreement? Absolutely not. There was also the same things being said about Alpha, and that ended up cause higher rates of hospitalisation and death than previous strains. 
In fact, hospitalisations are now ticking up in the UK, about a week after cases did, so who knows. 

It's been around for at least a month, more than enough time for doctors or scientists to have been able to come to some sort of conclusion, so far the vast majority of people who have had it are now recovered and were not hospitalised I mean a 255% increase in cases in S Africa and a tiny rise in hospital cases how much more proof do you need?

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I would say the fact that restrictions are being put back in place is precisely because vaccination isn't infallible and infection levels are high.

And, hey, I hold no brief for the BBC. Why not write to them to complain - with suitable examples, of course. You can append "...and pay Red-Robbo Ltd the £84,000 you've owed them since 2017" to your note.  

All joking aside, what do you expect Bristol City to do about this government edict?

You're a fan, so I guess you want the best for our club, but staying away may not only rob them of a bit of match day revenue, but if enough people do it would diminish spend available next season.  The club doesn't really have an option other than to bring this in. If they "took a stand" they'd be penalised and potentially shut down

Indeed. I don't understand this whole "I'm taking a stand by boycotting people who have to follow the law" nonsense. It's pure and utter virtue signalling.

If people want to go to London and protest outside parliament or Downing Street that is their business but anyone boycotting a venue or space for following the law is not making a political point but just seeking attention. Sadly the world is full of gutless, spineless people like @Harrywho want to make a lot of noise but lack the courage or conviction to target the people who make the laws and so make a big splash about punishing local businesses instead because it is so much easier to deprive a local business of money than to agitate for genuine change. I find it quite cowardly and shameful. 

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I would say the fact that restrictions are being put back in place is precisely because vaccination isn't infallible and infection levels are high.

And, hey, I hold no brief for the BBC. Why not write to them to complain - with suitable examples, of course. You can append "...and pay Red-Robbo Ltd the £84,000 you've owed them since 2017" to your note.  

All joking aside, what do you expect Bristol City to do about this government edict?

You're a fan, so I guess you want the best for our club, but staying away may not only rob them of a bit of match day revenue, but if enough people do it would diminish spend available next season.  The club doesn't really have an option other than to bring this in. If they "took a stand" they'd be penalised and potentially shut down

To your first paragraph - exactly. The vaccines aren’t infallible. But as I’ve mentioned, there are a remarkable number of people who actually think they are. 
 

Re the BBC. Well, well, well. I never knew you left in such dubious circumstances. I’ll ensure I mention you in my complaint letter. 
 

Re BCFC. I don’t expect them to do anything. They can’t. They have to comply. They won’t lose much money from my own input - season ticket is paid for and I won’t be asking for any refund for the games I don’t attend. My matchday spend usually amounts to £2.25 for a coffee. 
Of course, there may be lots of others who can’t attend and of course the club may lose money. I’d hope that they (and many other businesses who will lose money) will make a stand and pressure the government into not passing this through next week. If enough people say no, then they’d have to concede. However, the more people comply, those in power believe they’ve won. 
I get it - it’s every persons choice to attend, but I’d try to make a case to everyone that, by attending, you are complying. And by complying you are allowing the gradual tiptoe to more and more controls on your lives. This is the first step. See Scotland for the next step (ie lock yourself up at home if you’ve had contact, even if you are triple vaxxed), see Austria for the next step (ie fines for the unvaccinated), see Australia for the next step (ie quarantine for healthy, negative-tested citizens). Anyone who thinks it is wrong to lock healthy people up in a purpose built facility because they are a close contact of a positive case, ought to think about what they are complying with by attending a ‘vax pass’ event. 
I know it’s hard. People want their sport and entertainment, and their restaurants and their gigs and their skiing holidays etc etc, but for every single event that people comply with this tyranny, is one tiny step along the line that the government want you to take. 
 

I know that City can’t do anything about it. And I know it’s hard for fans to do anything about it. But I’d hope many fans are also business owners / employees, whose own livelihoods may be impacted by this, and maybe they ought to pressure those in power too. 
 

As I say, I won’t be complying with anything that requires me to prove I’ve been vaccinated. Whether that be football, restaurant, cinema, pub, whatever. Businesses need to stand against it to ensure they aren’t affected. I mean jeez - how many people have cancelled parties since the announcement 2 weeks ago, losing millions of pounds for millions of businesses, all over some irrational fear over a milder version of what we were already living with, fear caused by the government and the media. 
These businesses aren’t getting that money back. They aren’t getting any furlough this time around either. Fear has caused panic. Panic has resulted in cancellation of plans. Cancelled plans has resulted in millions of lost revenue, lost revenue could result in job losses or business closures, business closures could result in poverty, food bank use, drug abuse, homelessness, suicide etc!! 
 

People need to realise it’s not just the vax pass issue, it’s the whole shebang that’s occurred since omicron was announced. Fear and panic is the current pandemic. It’s time to say no. 

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Indeed. I don't understand this whole "I'm taking a stand by boycotting people who have to follow the law" nonsense. It's pure and utter virtue signalling.

If people want to go to London and protest outside parliament or Downing Street that is their business but anyone boycotting a venue or space for following the law is not making a political point but just seeking attention. Sadly the world is full of gutless, spineless people like @Harrywho want to make a lot of noise but lack the courage or conviction to target the people who make the laws and so make a big splash about punishing local businesses instead because it is so much easier to deprive a local business of money than to agitate for genuine change. I find it quite cowardly and shameful. 

Hilarious. I’ve agitated, my friend. I’ve made my feelings known. If everyone else did too then we might start to get somewhere. But there are far too many people staying silent and just willing to go along with this nonsense even though they know it’s not right. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Red Army 75]

Now we know who is going to football and who is not . Surely this thread needs to be moved 

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hilarious. I’ve agitated, my friend. I’ve made my feelings known. If everyone else did too then we might start to get somewhere. But there are far too many people staying silent and just willing to go along with this nonsense even though they know it’s not right. 

Nothing hilarious about it. You have whined a bit on the Internet and pledged to boycott a business that had no input in the rules. Utter virtue signalling. You get a bit of attention whilst doing nothing that changes anything.

Those people who have stayed silent have achieved precisely as much as you have with your pretend Protest, which is zilch. At least by staying silent, they are being honest about it.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

To your first paragraph - exactly. The vaccines aren’t infallible. But as I’ve mentioned, there are a remarkable number of people who actually think they are. 
 

Re the BBC. Well, well, well. I never knew you left in such dubious circumstances. I’ll ensure I mention you in my complaint letter. 
 

Re BCFC. I don’t expect them to do anything. They can’t. They have to comply. They won’t lose much money from my own input - season ticket is paid for and I won’t be asking for any refund for the games I don’t attend. My matchday spend usually amounts to £2.25 for a coffee. 
Of course, there may be lots of others who can’t attend and of course the club may lose money. I’d hope that they (and many other businesses who will lose money) will make a stand and pressure the government into not passing this through next week. If enough people say no, then they’d have to concede. However, the more people comply, those in power believe they’ve won. 
I get it - it’s every persons choice to attend, but I’d try to make a case to everyone that, by attending, you are complying. And by complying you are allowing the gradual tiptoe to more and more controls on your lives. This is the first step. See Scotland for the next step (ie lock yourself up at home if you’ve had contact, even if you are triple vaxxed), see Austria for the next step (ie fines for the unvaccinated), see Australia for the next step (ie quarantine for healthy, negative-tested citizens). Anyone who thinks it is wrong to lock healthy people up in a purpose built facility because they are a close contact of a positive case, ought to think about what they are complying with by attending a ‘vax pass’ event. 
I know it’s hard. People want their sport and entertainment, and their restaurants and their gigs and their skiing holidays etc etc, but for every single event that people comply with this tyranny, is one tiny step along the line that the government want you to take. 
 

I know that City can’t do anything about it. And I know it’s hard for fans to do anything about it. But I’d hope many fans are also business owners / employees, whose own livelihoods may be impacted by this, and maybe they ought to pressure those in power too. 
 

As I say, I won’t be complying with anything that requires me to prove I’ve been vaccinated. Whether that be football, restaurant, cinema, pub, whatever. Businesses need to stand against it to ensure they aren’t affected. I mean jeez - how many people have cancelled parties since the announcement 2 weeks ago, losing millions of pounds for millions of businesses, all over some irrational fear over a milder version of what we were already living with, fear caused by the government and the media. 
These businesses aren’t getting that money back. They aren’t getting any furlough this time around either. Fear has caused panic. Panic has resulted in cancellation of plans. Cancelled plans has resulted in millions of lost revenue, lost revenue could result in job losses or business closures, business closures could result in poverty, food bank use, drug abuse, homelessness, suicide etc!! 
 

People need to realise it’s not just the vax pass issue, it’s the whole shebang that’s occurred since omicron was announced. Fear and panic is the current pandemic. It’s time to say no. 

Fear is a powerful currency, for sure. I wonder if you realise that yours, and others, reaction to these restrictions/laws is also driven by a fundamental fear - as detailed in your post - of a creep of restrictions and "tyranny". 

A concern of harm to future society comes within the very definition of "fear".

Anyway, must give the Omicron report a read, apparently it's got a predicted R number of 3.3-4.4 so far more contagious than the original virus! 

 

[Galley is our king]

20 minutes ago, Harry said:

Hilarious. I’ve agitated, my friend. I’ve made my feelings known. If everyone else did too then we might start to get somewhere. 

Oh no! Not a real life agitator!

If only I'd known....

You are right about letting your feelings known....here's mine..

You read crap on the Internet and believe shit because it suits your agenda.

You have said you gained information from twitter, says it all really.

You laugh because a Police station is attacked and no doubt loved it when a Police vehicle was set alight.

To sum up, your a knob. Now I've made my feelings clear, hopefully we can start getting somewhere..

 

 

[joe jordans teeth]

Come to the last page just out of curiosity because it was hot to see if@Harryhas had a Christmas tipple or two or just a angry young man who gets his info on social media,haven’t decided yet so carry on …

Edited December 10, 2021 by joe jordans teeth

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Oh no! Not a real life agitator!

If only I'd known....

You are right about letting your feelings known....here's mine..

You read crap on the Internet and believe shit because it suits your agenda.

You have said you gained information from twitter, says it all really.

You laugh because a Police station is attacked and no doubt loved it when a Police vehicle was set alight.

To sum up, your a knob. Now I've made my feelings clear, hopefully we can start getting somewhere..

 

 

The highlighted part. 
Prove it. 
I think you’ll find you have completely misrepresented what you thought you read on an earlier post in this thread. 
I think you’ll find that the truth is that I was the one who was calling out those who had attacked the police vehicle. I was very much NOT the one who was ‘laughing’ about it - quite the opposite. 
Still, well done for your very incorrect input. Shows exactly how much attention you’ve been paying. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Come to the last page just out of curiosity because it was hot to see if@Harryhas had a Christmas tipple or two or just a angry young man who gets his info on social media,haven’t decided yet so carry on …

 Curiosity clearly got the better of you then and you decided to post anyway. Well done. And welcome to your education. 

[Harry]

22 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Fear is a powerful currency, for sure. I wonder if you realise that yours, and others, reaction to these restrictions/laws is also driven by a fundamental fear - as detailed in your post - of a creep of restrictions and "tyranny". 

A concern of harm to future society comes within the very definition of "fear".

Anyway, must give the Omicron report a read, apparently it's got a predicted R number of 3.3-4.4 so far more contagious than the original virus! 

 

And if the variant is indeed more contagious, and so far seemingly less deadly, then this is a good thing. 
End of the day, much like any respiratory virus, at some point we are ALL gonna get it. 
So if a milder form of this virus can quickly become the dominant strain then maybe less people will die from Delta. 
Should be a good thing, right? 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

And if the variant is indeed more contagious, and so far seemingly less deadly, then this is a good thing. 
End of the day, much like any respiratory virus, at some point we are ALL gonna get it. 
So if a milder form of this virus can quickly become the dominant strain then maybe less people will die from Delta. 
Should be a good thing, right? 

Could be, however the early evidence (as I've just posted) suggests that this variant has mutated so that it is far more resilient to the initial vaccinations and antibodies people developed naturally to combat the virus. Again, this is entirely unsurprising - it's what the flu does year in, year out. 

Fortunately, the booster vaccine seems to have much better efficacy and hence why every effort should be made to get that into people's arms. 

[Galley is our king]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

The highlighted part. 
Prove it. 
I think you’ll find you have completely misrepresented what you thought you read on an earlier post in this thread. 
I think you’ll find that the truth is that I was the one who was calling out those who had attacked the police vehicle. I was very much NOT the one who was ‘laughing’ about it - quite the opposite. 
Still, well done for your very incorrect input. Shows exactly how much attention you’ve been paying. 

No, it must be true, I read it somewhere on the intranet...its where I get all my information don't you know..

[joe jordans teeth]

23 minutes ago, Harry said:

 Curiosity clearly got the better of you then and you decided to post anyway. Well done. And welcome to your education. 

Let’s hope your knowledge is better on this than football,you can’t be totally clueless about 2 things surely

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

No, it must be true, I read it somewhere on the intranet...its where I get all my information don't you know..

Don’t believe everything you read squire. 

9 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Let’s hope your knowledge is better on this than football,you can’t be totally clueless about 2 things surely

Nice one centurion 

[Harry]

20 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Could be, however the early evidence (as I've just posted) suggests that this variant has mutated so that it is far more resilient to the initial vaccinations and antibodies people developed naturally to combat the virus. Again, this is entirely unsurprising - it's what the flu does year in, year out. 

Fortunately, the booster vaccine seems to have much better efficacy and hence why every effort should be made to get that into people's arms. 

But a less deadly strain is a good thing. Less people will die than would have done, vax or no vax. Which is why, by imposing restrictions, we’ll be keeping the deadlier delta in circulation and not let the milder Omicron become dominant. 
If you can allow the milder version to take over from the deadlier version, surely that should be done as early as possible to save more lives? No? 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

No, it must be true, I read it somewhere on the intranet...its where I get all my information don't you know..

Are you a scientist ? Just wondering where you get your information ? 

[BrizzleRed]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

And if the variant is indeed more contagious, and so far seemingly less deadly, then this is a good thing. 
End of the day, much like any respiratory virus, at some point we are ALL gonna get it. 
So if a milder form of this virus can quickly become the dominant strain then maybe less people will die from Delta. 
Should be a good thing, right? 

If it’s three times more contageous, but  produces half the hospitalisations per infection, we would still see a rise in total hospitalisations, so we far from out the woods yet.

This is still the biggest pandemic to hit the world since the Spanish flu and that killed millions.

I’ll say one thing to you, as you’re one of the chief anti-restriction protestors.

It’s alright you standing on your soapbox shouting about our civil liberties being denied.  Would you have such a cavalier attitude to the results of the virus if you were actually in a position in government where you’re  answerable for the results if you made tbe wrong call and it resulted in a massive loss off life?

It’s easy to do what you’re doing and you’re clearly proud of yourself for your protest, but luckily for you, it means **** all if you’re wrong. 

Unluckily for others, they DO bave to make these decisions and certainly aren’t helped when unaccountable people are spouting conspiracy crap that was probably started by some deluded ******* wannabe Fox Mulder on twitter, who never has to back up their claims!

 

[TonyTonyTony]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

But a less deadly strain is a good thing. Less people will die than would have done, vax or no vax. Which is why, by imposing restrictions, we’ll be keeping the deadlier delta in circulation and not let the milder Omicron become dominant. 
If you can allow the milder version to take over from the deadlier version, surely that should be done as early as possible to save more lives? No? 

A less deadly but dominant strain would be absolutely great news but it’s speculation at the moment

[freezer]

Bring in Plan C. More restrictions and control of the populace. Watch this space. 

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, freezer said:

Bring in Plan C. More restrictions and control of the populace. Watch this space. 

Oddly, I am torn on the whole Plan C thing.

Part of me thinks it is being suggested to making people more compliant to Plan B, but equally the additional measures suggested for Plan C are the only way I can see Plan B doing anything to reduce the spread.

Basically, it's all nonsense.

[Bristol Rob]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/stringent-uk-covid-measures-needed-within-a-week-leak-reveals

 

[Harry]

48 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

If it’s three times more contageous, but  produces half the hospitalisations per infection, we would still see a rise in total hospitalisations, so we far from out the woods yet.

This is still the biggest pandemic to hit the world since the Spanish flu and that killed millions.

I’ll say one thing to you, as you’re one of the chief anti-restriction protestors.

It’s alright you standing on your soapbox shouting about our civil liberties being denied.  Would you have such a cavalier attitude to the results of the virus if you were actually in a position in government where you’re  answerable for the results if you made tbe wrong call and it resulted in a massive loss off life?

It’s easy to do what you’re doing and you’re clearly proud of yourself for your protest, but luckily for you, it means **** all if you’re wrong. 

Unluckily for others, they DO bave to make these decisions and certainly aren’t helped when unaccountable people are spouting conspiracy crap that was probably started by some deluded ******* wannabe Fox Mulder on twitter, who never has to back up their claims!

 

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? 
I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
 

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home if you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome, would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise), I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one, I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, instead of giving out free lateral flow tests with negligible efficacy, I’d have given out free vitamin d supplements, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 

 

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[TonyTonyTony]

15 minutes ago, Harry said:

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? 
I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
 

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home if you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome, would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise), I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one, I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, instead of giving out free lateral flow tests with negligible efficacy, I’d have given out free vitamin d supplements, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 

 

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

Another wall of text yawn.

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Another wall of text yawn.

Ignorance will get you nowhere. 

[joe jordans teeth]

36 minutes ago, Harry said:

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? 
I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
 

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home if you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome, would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise), I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one, I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, instead of giving out free lateral flow tests with negligible efficacy, I’d have given out free vitamin d supplements, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 

 

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

Don’t know how to highlight a sentence so when you say you would promote healthy eating and exercise I have to ask why,everyone bloody knows it’s better than eating 12 Big Mac meals so why waste money on what is someone’s choice 

[TonyTonyTony]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Ignorance will get you nowhere. 

Your verbose posts contain nothing of interest. They don’t stimulate, they offer nothing thought provoking nor are they informative.

You are a bore who likes the sound of his own voice

[BrizzleRed]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? so it wasn’t you who was accusing the world’s governments and pharceutic companies making the most of this pandemic to either milk us for everything we’ve got or permanently taking away all our. civil liberties then?

I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
Wrong, I never mention vaccinations. I’ve read it as someone who’s buying into the movement to make as much noise as as possible and sew discontent, with the aim of taking the brake off restrictions, right at a point when virus rates could potentially run away again, as they’re doing now in South Africa.

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home of you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome,

pretty much what we were getting in the press briefings then, particularly from Whitty, Vallance JVT and Harries.  The info was certainly there, but maybe a little too nuanced for some people, while others seemed to hear what they wanted to hear, rather than what was actually said. That shambles of the BBC obviously didn’t help that by often summarising the briefing and managing to get key messages wrong.

would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise),

Which they actually did with the Nightingale Hospitals.

I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one,

Really? And how would you have decided who needed them then, as some people who weren’t considerd vulnerable have also been hit badly and sometimes died.  Apart from that, you’ve already said you’ll be completely honest and announce that “a lot of people are going to die”, so good luck when you tell many people you’ve already scared shitless that they can’t have a jab.  Boris would have no problem competing with you in a popularity contest after that!

I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 
And then everyone is going to shout’ but you’re the government, so what are you going to do to protect us, save our jobs, save our businesses, pay our mortgages, etc, etc?

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

Hope that helps …. love

[Harry]

23 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t know how to highlight a sentence so when you say you would promote healthy eating and exercise I have to ask why,everyone bloody knows it’s better than eating 12 Big Mac meals so why waste money on what is someone’s choice 

And this is where you and I differ in level of detail. Yes, of course people know that. But you have to promote, promote, promote, plus if you read my other posts, identify those most at risk (ie morbidly obese) and assign them personal support - nutritionists, dieticians, wellness guru’s - sadly you can’t leave it to the unhealthy to help themselves, you need to support them closely to put them on the right path. 
And yes, of course it’s their choice if they don’t want to commit. And that’s the chances they take in life. 

17 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Your verbose posts contain nothing of interest. They don’t stimulate, they offer nothing thought provoking nor are they informative.

You are a bore who likes the sound of his own voice

Verbose?  mmmm. I was asked what I thought. I gave detail. If you think it’s verbose, then you are simply either ignorant or impatient 
As for your 2nd paragraph - makes no sense love - how can my verbose writing mean I like the sound of my own voice. 2 totally different mediums of communication squire. 
Come on now Triple T - you’re better than that. Oh no, my bad. You’re not. 

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

You’ll have to tell me where I’ve strayed into ‘conspiracy’? 
I think I’ve been very levelled in this actually. I’ve not denied the virus exists, I’ve not denied vaccines work, I’ve not said that nobody should get them, so please tell me where the conspiracy appears? 
I’ve praised the nhs workers, I’ve advocated solutions to help the more vulnerable, I’ve shown concern for citizens and their welfare and businesses. You’ll have to tell me what part of all that is conspiracy. 
Thing is, you’ve just read everything as ‘anti-vaxxer’ and not actually looked at the detail I’ve tried to present. 
 

As for the decisions those in power have to make. Well, I don’t seek power, so I’d never find myself in that position. Those who seek power are a certain kind of personality (usually quite psychopath as it happens - true story, ie superficial, unemotional, lack of remorse, poor judgement). To be fair to him, whilst Boris is an utter cretin, I don’t think he’s in the same category of most leaders and power-seekers as having those psychopathic tendencies. 
Were it me - I’d have been honest from the start. Upfront inform people that a lot of people are going to die from this, we must take precautions such as staying at home if you have any hint of illness, encourage those who are at risk (ie the obese) to change their lifestyles to give themselves a better chance of a positive outcome, would’ve committed the billions required to an army of wellbeing support to the millions of vulnerable, would’ve committed the billions required to beef up the health service to increase capacity and better facilities, and would certainly have set up isolated ‘covid only’ hospitals in order to prevent spread inside regular hospitals (where a good percentage of cases arise), I’d have committed the billions required into the development of anti-virals and medicines rather than billions into vaccines for 80% of the population who don’t really need one, I’d have promoted healthy eating, diet, exercise, rather than sit on your backsides at home and get fat, instead of giving out free lateral flow tests with negligible efficacy, I’d have given out free vitamin d supplements, I’d have been honest - sorry folks, this is a virus that is sadly going to take many peoples lives, whatever we do, but we must live with it from day 1 and do everything possible to mitigate the poor outcomes in the most vulnerable and commit to the best possible care that we can. 

 

Again, not sure what I’ve said is conspiracy. Covid exists, but is only deadly for a very small number of people. Vaccines work for the most vulnerable. But they don’t work for everyone and they certainly don’t stop spread. That’s not conspiracy, love. 

The analysis did say a lot of people would die if we did nothing. That's now (look on this very thread) being used as a reason that it was wrong.

Why do you support the government "encouraging" (how???) people to change their unhealthy lifestyles such as obesity, but you don't support the government encouraging people to get jabbed or prove they are? Can you not also see that the former is a long term issue - it wont be solved in weeks, months, or even years.

The same goes for "beefing up" the health services - it's not an issue of money. Our government printed hundreds of billions last year, and can print literally as much money as it wants thanks to the BoE. These things take time and resources, not money.

Covid only hospitals? So my partner when giving birth at short notice last year, where does she go with 2 days notice? She's in the covid one, the non covid one, or a third type? Three hospitals like that everywhere? And in places that don't have two or three hospitals? What about the staff? What about the one hospital in 100 miles with a specialist center people need? What about the children's hospital we have here?

Why would developing anti-virals be better than a vaccine? You talked about your anger of people making money from the jabs and profiting from the pandemic earlier. Are these anti virals developed for free out of thin air? Your better solution is to let more people catch it, and sell drugs to try and solve it?

Part of the issue is that often once people are ill enough to need treatment - your anti virals - they're so ill they need to go to hospital. So your drugs don't help at all there, they're already taking up valuable space. Makes more sense to prevent that surely?

Again - promoted diet, exercise, and so on - government interference is ok there? And the ones who don't do it? That's not authoritarian?

I'd look forward to your avatar of McDonalds burgers in the shape of a swastika in your alternate reality.

 

Sounds to me like that you want to just remove all the bits that affect you personally (having to be jabbed, show a QR code, wear a mask, whatever) and push that burden onto other people (stay inside if you're ill, change your life if you're fat, just take drugs if you get really sick).

None of it makes any sense.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by IAmNick

[TonyTonyTony]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

As for your 2nd paragraph - makes no sense love - how can my verbose writing mean I like the sound of my own voice. 2 totally different mediums of communication squire. 

I’ll add pedant to the list too

[Harry]

20 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Hope that helps …. love

A) Yes I did say that. And stand by it. Not a conspiracy though. It’s happening right in front of you. 
B) Not trying to sew any discontent. Just stating my opinions. 
C) Correct. They sometime subtly raised these points. But were any of them ACTUALLY ever acted upon. No. 
D) No they didn’t. They shut them all down again without having ever received anyone. 
E) GP records clearly know who is in a vulnerable category. Honesty and transparency is better than fear, panic and hidden agendas. 
F) None of that would have been under threat. 

[Harry]

5 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

I’ll add pedant to the list too

Thanks. I like that. It’s one of my best traits. 
You missed the full stop at the end of your sentence, by the way. 

[Harry]

29 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The analysis did say a lot of people would die if we did nothing. That's now (look on this very thread) being used as a reason that it was wrong.

Why do you support the government "encouraging" (how???) people to change their unhealthy lifestyles such as obesity, but you don't support the government encouraging people to get jabbed or prove they are? Can you not also see that the former is a long term issue - it wont be solved in weeks, months, or even years.

The same goes for "beefing up" the health services - it's not an issue of money. Our government printed hundreds of billions last year, and can print literally as much money as it wants thanks to the BoE. These things take time and resources, not money.

Covid only hospitals? So my partner when giving birth at short notice last year, where does she go with 2 days notice? She's in the covid one, the non covid one, or a third type? Three hospitals like that everywhere? And in places that don't have two or three hospitals? What about the staff? What about the one hospital in 100 miles with a specialist center people need? What about the children's hospital we have here?

Why would developing anti-virals be better than a vaccine? You talked about your anger of people making money from the jabs and profiting from the pandemic earlier. Are these anti virals developed for free out of thin air? Your better solution is to let more people catch it, and sell drugs to try and solve it?

Part of the issue is that often once people are ill enough to need treatment - your anti virals - they're so ill they need to go to hospital. So your drugs don't help at all there, they're already taking up valuable space. Makes more sense to prevent that surely?

Again - promoted diet, exercise, and so on - government interference is ok there? And the ones who don't do it? That's not authoritarian?

I'd look forward to your avatar of McDonalds burgers in the shape of a swastika in your alternate reality.

 

Sounds to me like that you want to just remove all the bits that affect you personally (having to be jabbed, show a QR code, wear a mask, whatever) and push that burden onto other people (stay inside if you're ill, change your life if you're fat, just take drugs if you get really sick).

None of it makes any sense.

 

As per my reply above to the other poster, the solutions I’ve put forth are about health. Yes, they are long term, but at least they are about ACTUAL health. Nothing this government have implemented has anything to do with your health. 
Same with health services. Yes, it was never an overnight fix, but surely you’d have thought something, anything, would’ve been done by now, 20 months on. Again, absolutely nothing has been done. 
Covid only hospitals are the best way to prevent ‘in-hospital’ spread - which is pretty bloody rife. This needn’t impact on your existing hospitals. New builds were necessary. New kit. New staff. Again, has anything changed in this respect in 20 months. No. Where is the urgent recruitment drive to increase staffing. Where is the offer of better pay to encourage increased staffing? It’s non existent. Absolutely nothing has been done. As for the 100 miles comment, wherever they could have been situated, multiple facilities countrywide, once required it doesn’t take long to be transported 100 miles by air ambulance. 
 

I’ve answered the health-drive elsewhere but just to add it’s not authoritarian if something is rolled out with transparency and with compassion. I’m not advocating a government official in a cheap suit to knock on your door and tell you what to do, I’m taking about qualified, confident, knowledgable and personable health fanatics to support people to a better lifestyle in order for them to personally achieve better outcomes. If they don’t want to participate then that’s fine - no one would force anyone to do anything. 
 

As to your penultimate paragraph. “Stay in if you’re ill, change your life if you’re fat, take drugs if you’re sick”. 
Yep. That’s about the size of it. It’s a pretty damn fine strategy don’t you think. It’s kinda like the one we’ve always adopted as normal. 
 

I like the McD’s idea. I might work on that (if I had any design skills). 
 

Edit - sorry, just to add Nick. Yes, some of the things I’ve advocated are indeed longer term measures. But had we started implementing these in April 2020 when we knew the way the virus plays, then perhaps by summer 21 we could’ve been making real progress and reaping the rewards, rather than having to go back to the levels of restrictions we’ve had to endure. We’ve done 20 months and we’ve done nothing. 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harry

[Galley is our king]

2 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thanks. I like that. It’s one of my best traits. 
You missed the full stop at the end of your sentence, by the way. 

Look, you have been banging on all bloody day spouting the same crap.

You can think what you like but you will change no one's mind, particularly mine.

Having a daughter who worked on a covid ward watching people die, time and time and time again and then having to ring their relatives may give me a different perspective.

Anything that can be done to stop or alleviate this bloody awful disease should be done.

You come across as a petulant childish person who just likes to argue for the sake of it, repeating the same rubbish over and over again.

When, in the real world, where people put themselves first, looking after sick people, that seems to count for Jack shit.

How many doctors and nurses plus other medical professionals have died so far during this pandemic? Were there lives given for nothing? Did you have a better plan that would have stopped that happening?

No is the answer!

You have been on this all day, nothing better to do? Keyboard activist?

If you had any decency you would stop this pathetic diatribe and think of fellow supporters who have lost loved ones or have seen loved ones struggle daily working to save lives due to this pandemic.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On the actual football bits, spot checks being mooted.

Could that cause issues or am I underestimating people's understanding of the issues. Bit in the Times today speaks of it being up to SAGs to decide whether all fans should be checked.

Says something about SAGs stipulating the numbers that would need checking. Suggests 1 in 4 could be the number but I guess it could be a bit of a postcode lottery.

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Other bit, Matt Hughes has said in the Daily Mail that clubs are scrambling for extra stewards in order to try and make this work.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10290411/Premier-League-EFL-clubs-scramble-hire-stewards-Plan-B-Covid-restrictions.html

[Harry]

10 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Look, you have been banging on all bloody day spouting the same crap.

You can think what you like but you will change no one's mind, particularly mine.

Having a daughter who worked on a covid ward watching people die, time and time and time again and then having to ring their relatives may give me a different perspective.

Anything that can be done to stop or alleviate this bloody awful disease should be done.

You come across as a petulant childish person who just likes to argue for the sake of it, repeating the same rubbish over and over again.

When, in the real world, where people put themselves first, looking after sick people, that seems to count for Jack shit.

How many doctors and nurses plus other medical professionals have died so far during this pandemic? Were there lives given for nothing? Did you have a better plan that would have stopped that happening?

No is the answer!

You have been on this all day, nothing better to do? Keyboard activist?

If you had any decency you would stop this pathetic diatribe and think of fellow supporters who have lost loved ones or have seen loved ones struggle daily working to save lives due to this pandemic.

 

If posters reply to me then I will respond. That’s how it works. If you want me to stop replying, then don’t bother to reply to me. It’s quite simple. 
I’ve answered your other points and have shown empathy to your daughter’s situation. 

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

A) Yes I did say that. And stand by it. Not a conspiracy though. It’s happening right in front of you. 
If you’re still claiming this is being done through conscious, devious planning, rather than a necessary response to a dangerous pandemic, then I’ll stand by my conspiracy accusation, so we’ll have to differ.

B) Not trying to sew any discontent. Just stating my opinions. Well, your doing a very good impression of a dog with a bone who doesn’t want to let go. Maybe if everyone just ignores when you mention the subject, we can have some peace and get back to discussing football ….. although you obviously won’t be there, will you?! 

C) Correct. They sometime subtly raised these points. But were any of them ACTUALLY ever acted upon. No. 
Oh yeah in this day and age?  I can just imagine the uproar if they started saying you were increasing your chances of dying with covid if you’re too fat!!! Don’t forget, thanks to all the ‘hyper sensitives’ you’re risking being hounded out of your job for saying stuff like that. 

D) No they didn’t. They shut them all down again without having ever received anyone. 
Go back and check on that one.  Some got very limited use and were also used for vaccinations, but they were only supposed to be used if the existing hospitals were overwealmed anyway.

E) GP records clearly know who is in a vulnerable category. Honesty and transparency is better than fear, panic and hidden agendas. 
There you go again!

F) None of that would have been under threat. Oh so with your solution, the economy, jobs, business and the health service wouldn’t have been under threat?  Sorry to sound sarcastic, but if that’s true, whatever job you’re in, you’re wasted. You really should be running the country, as you are clearly a miracle worker!!!

I think you final point just confirms to me it’s a very good time to depart from this discussion and leave you to your strange world.

Just one final point to consider.  If you think the current situation regarding inconvenience and regulations is bad, count yourself very lucky you didn’t have to get through WW2  (I didn’t have to either btw)

There were more rules than you could wave a stick at and you’d ignore them at your peril.  (and those rules weren’t made permanent, so why should any we have now to deal with Covid?).
You also had our German friends trying to drop very large amounts of high explosives on you on many dark nights.  

Compared to that, a ****** vaccine pass really doesn’t seem that big a hassle to me!

[pillred]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

 Curiosity clearly got the better of you then and you decided to post anyway. Well done. And welcome to your education. 

This a long goodbye considering 18 hours ago you said you were leaving the discussion.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

But a less deadly strain is a good thing. Less people will die than would have done, vax or no vax. Which is why, by imposing restrictions, we’ll be keeping the deadlier delta in circulation and not let the milder Omicron become dominant. 
If you can allow the milder version to take over from the deadlier version, surely that should be done as early as possible to save more lives? No? 

No, mate. No offence but this displays a lack of knowledge of basic epidemiology. You understand that viruses mutate,  so by letting them rip through society you increase their ability to, and likelihood of, mutating and potentially becoming more deadly. Why, as a global community, would we take that risk when we have a vaccination proven to reduce severe illness/death + spread? 

Interestingly, I've just come across this article tweeted by one Jordan Peterson, a man vehemently opposed to mandatory vaccinations and social restrictions (to my knowledge). It suggests the covid vaccine is not just preventing deaths from covid, but from any death (which again, makes scientific sense when you think about it): 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211025/people-vacccinated-covid-less-likely-die-any-cause-study 

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the actual football bits, spot checks being mooted.

Could that cause issues or am I underestimating people's understanding of the issues. Bit in the Times today speaks of it being up to SAGs to decide whether all fans should be checked.

Says something about SAGs stipulating the numbers that would need checking. Suggests 1 in 4 could be the number but I guess it could be a bit of a postcode lottery.

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Other bit, Matt Hughes has said in the Daily Mail that clubs are scrambling for extra stewards in order to try and make this work.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10290411/Premier-League-EFL-clubs-scramble-hire-stewards-Plan-B-Covid-restrictions.html

I got waved through the security check at the Derby game, so some stewards are already doing it randomly.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

I think you final point just confirms to me it’s a very good time to depart from this discussion and leave you to your strange world.

Just one final point to consider.  If you think the current situation regarding inconvenience and regulations is bad, count yourself very lucky you didn’t have to get through WW2  (I didn’t have to either btw)

There were more rules than you could wave a stick at and you’d ignore them at your peril.  (and those rules weren’t made permanent, so why should any we have now to deal with Covid?).
You also had our German friends trying to drop very large amounts of high explosives on you on many dark nights.  

Compared to that, a ****** vaccine pass really doesn’t seem that big a hassle to me!

If people are taking such umbrage at this current set of light touch rules and regs then wait until the climate emergency really bites in the coming decades and when the next inevitable pandemic occurs, involving a strain of a much more deadly virus. Like Ebola, for example, which was successfully combated in West Africa by *checks notes* a track and trace system and lockdowns. Yes, one of the poorest regions in the world (albeit with help from the WHO) eliminated a far more deadly virus than covid 19. 

Funny what quick and decisive action can achieve, versus having a bumbling leader that brushes his hair with a balloon. 

[Red-Robbo]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

To your first paragraph - exactly. The vaccines aren’t infallible. But as I’ve mentioned, there are a remarkable number of people who actually think they are. 
 

Re the BBC. Well, well, well. I never knew you left in such dubious circumstances. I’ll ensure I mention you in my complaint letter. 
 

Re BCFC. I don’t expect them to do anything. They can’t. They have to comply. They won’t lose much money from my own input - season ticket is paid for and I won’t be asking for any refund for the games I don’t attend. My matchday spend usually amounts to £2.25 for a coffee. 
Of course, there may be lots of others who can’t attend and of course the club may lose money. I’d hope that they (and many other businesses who will lose money) will make a stand and pressure the government into not passing this through next week. If enough people say no, then they’d have to concede. However, the more people comply, those in power believe they’ve won. 
I get it - it’s every persons choice to attend, but I’d try to make a case to everyone that, by attending, you are complying. And by complying you are allowing the gradual tiptoe to more and more controls on your lives. This is the first step. See Scotland for the next step (ie lock yourself up at home if you’ve had contact, even if you are triple vaxxed), see Austria for the next step (ie fines for the unvaccinated), see Australia for the next step (ie quarantine for healthy, negative-tested citizens). Anyone who thinks it is wrong to lock healthy people up in a purpose built facility because they are a close contact of a positive case, ought to think about what they are complying with by attending a ‘vax pass’ event. 
I know it’s hard. People want their sport and entertainment, and their restaurants and their gigs and their skiing holidays etc etc, but for every single event that people comply with this tyranny, is one tiny step along the line that the government want you to take. 
 

I know that City can’t do anything about it. And I know it’s hard for fans to do anything about it. But I’d hope many fans are also business owners / employees, whose own livelihoods may be impacted by this, and maybe they ought to pressure those in power too. 
 

As I say, I won’t be complying with anything that requires me to prove I’ve been vaccinated. Whether that be football, restaurant, cinema, pub, whatever. Businesses need to stand against it to ensure they aren’t affected. I mean jeez - how many people have cancelled parties since the announcement 2 weeks ago, losing millions of pounds for millions of businesses, all over some irrational fear over a milder version of what we were already living with, fear caused by the government and the media. 
These businesses aren’t getting that money back. They aren’t getting any furlough this time around either. Fear has caused panic. Panic has resulted in cancellation of plans. Cancelled plans has resulted in millions of lost revenue, lost revenue could result in job losses or business closures, business closures could result in poverty, food bank use, drug abuse, homelessness, suicide etc!! 
 

People need to realise it’s not just the vax pass issue, it’s the whole shebang that’s occurred since omicron was announced. Fear and panic is the current pandemic. It’s time to say no. 

 

Re: BBC . Not dubious H. I left journalism in 2011. This is a commercial contract with my company still in dispute.  Public face = Auntie Beeb; Private behaviour = absolute c****. Details on PM for anyone interested. 

The reason I said your stance is this season's "I WILL BOO" is I honestly don't see it forcing City or any other club affected to do anything.  As far as the vast majority of fans go, downloading a straightforward app and flashing a green tick at turnstiles is pain-free and a trivial inconvenience. 

For most companies- like mine for example - the new restrictions are also pain-free and a minor inconvenience. 

Nothing will change. You'll watch 4th tier football, but nothing will change. 

In your your heart you know I'm right. 

[BrizzleRed]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If people are taking such umbrage at this current set of light touch rules and regs then wait until the climate emergency really bites in the coming decades and when the next inevitable pandemic occurs, involving a strain of a much more deadly virus. Like Ebola, for example, which was successfully combated in West Africa by *checks notes* a track and trace system and lockdowns. Yes, one of the poorest regions in the world (albeit with help from the WHO) eliminated a far more deadly virus than covid 19. 

Funny what quick and decisive action can achieve, versus having a bumbling leader that brushes his hair with a balloon. 

Too right.  Anyone would think we’ve all been banged up and had the key thrown away, listening to some of them.

With nature all about things evolving and adapting, how people can get so impatient that this virus hasn’t been besten by now is baffling.  Also, some of these self-proclaimed ‘more enlightened’ people can’t seem to comprehend that another more deadly mutation could be just around the corner.

Nah, let’s just scrap all the restrictions and have a free for all …….. Bert Bloggs on Twitter said it’ll be alright!!!

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Too right.  Anyone would think we’ve all been banged up and had the key thrown away, listening to some of them.

With nature all about things evolving and adapting, how people can get so impatient that this virus hasn’t been besten by now is baffling.  Also, some of these self-proclaimed ‘more enlightened’ people can’t seem to comprehend that another more deadly mutation could be just around the corner.

Nah, let’s just scrap all the restrictions and have a free for all …….. Bert Bloggs on Twitter said it’ll be alright!!!

My favourite complaint is "but, it's a free country!" 

Since when? Society is transactional and conditional.  It's never been "free". Not even when we were living in caves. 

[Eddie Hitler]

11 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What's been waived?

 

The normal rules for licensing a vaccine together with liability of the manufacturer for side effects.

This is very wordy but it's in there; stated reason being (obviously) that it's a pandemic.

https://post.parliament.uk/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-uk/

 

If you look at how a vaccine is usually tested then here is the TB one for cattle which is required to have a four year trial before it can be licensed for general use.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/green-light-for-ground-breaking-bovine-tb-vaccine-field-trials

 

[The Bard]

6 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

I got waved through the security check at the Derby game, so some stewards are already doing it randomly.

That's more to do with "is that person carrying an explosive device or weapon' 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Could have been very useful and still could be but there is not enough staff in the NHS to man them.  With the 1% payrise after the year they had then can’t see too many people wanting to join up either.  Also the government are sacking a million nhs staff during the height of a pandemic so they can’t be too worried.  

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

No, mate. No offence but this displays a lack of knowledge of basic epidemiology. You understand that viruses mutate,  so by letting them rip through society you increase their ability to, and likelihood of, mutating and potentially becoming more deadly. Why, as a global community, would we take that risk when we have a vaccination proven to reduce severe illness/death + spread? 

Interestingly, I've just come across this article tweeted by one Jordan Peterson, a man vehemently opposed to mandatory vaccinations and social restrictions (to my knowledge). It suggests the covid vaccine is not just preventing deaths from covid, but from any death (which again, makes scientific sense when you think about it): 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211025/people-vacccinated-covid-less-likely-die-any-cause-study 

“Most mutations aren’t more dangerous, and any dangerous mutations are very rare.”

No, I’m not an epidemiologist. But that’s what 100% of them will tell you. 

[Harry]

7 hours ago, pillred said:

This a long goodbye considering 18 hours ago you said you were leaving the discussion.

Did I? 
Where? 
One thinks you may be mixing up your conspiracy theorists. Someone else said they’d be leaving the discussion. I certainly didn’t. 
How’s the head this morning? You were clearly somewhat muddled last night. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Harry

[Guest]

We were just at the point where it looked like the U.K. (England) would be the first country in the world to move into the endemic stage without having to introduce vaccine passports.  Then suddenly Boris is being framed, a new variant is in play and vaccine passports get introduced.  What rotten timing...

Edited December 11, 2021 by LoyalRed

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Re: BBC . Not dubious H. I left journalism in 2011. This is a commercial contract with my company still in dispute.  Public face = Auntie Beeb; Private behaviour = absolute c****. Details on PM for anyone interested. 

The reason I said your stance is this season's "I WILL BOO" is I honestly don't see it forcing City or any other club affected to do anything.  As far as the vast majority of fans go, downloading a straightforward app and flashing a green tick at turnstiles is pain-free and a trivial inconvenience. 

For most companies- like mine for example - the new restrictions are also pain-free and a minor inconvenience. 

Nothing will change. You'll watch 4th tier football, but nothing will change. 

In your your heart you know I'm right. 

I agree, nothing will change. 
However, “in your heart you know I’m right”. Ha ha. You’re an ex-journo. In my heart I know you are full of crap. 
 

Anyway, just so we’re clear. “The new restrictions are pain free and a minor inconvenience”. So, this means that you are ok with discrimination. 
No problem if you are. That’s your bag. But I’m not. Even if that particular discrimination is easy and pain free for you. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Harry

[MarcusX]

On 09/12/2021 at 11:56, Eddie Hitler said:

 

It's certainly odd.

If you have a 'flu jab then you will rapidly fight off a 'flu infection if it is one of the four strains forming the vaccine this year (plus residual protection from previous years' vaccines).

You do still catch 'flu, and can infect others, but it is extremely mild and barely noticeable if it is one of the strains vaccinated.

Yet with Covid vaccines people are still becoming very ill and in some cases dying and there is no specific strain protection ascribed to any of them despite there being just five strains in nearly two years: alpha, beta, gamma, delta and then bizarrely omicron rather than epsilon.

It strikes me as being very much a "hit and hope" strategy with some serious current side effects, albeit in small numbers, with unknown longer term effects.

The exhortation to take them has also switched from the usual personalised medical encouragement of "take the 'flu jab to protect yourself" to a big state message of "take a Covid vaccine to protect the NHS" with side effects like the one reported in the Herald yesterday regarded as acceptable collateral damage.

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/popular-devon-dad-footballer-died-6320625

Well if you were him or his family you would think otherwise.

The old medical rule of "first do no harm" has been shed like a used disposable face mask and should now be rewritten to "do whatever harm it takes as long as it avoids putting strain upon the NHS".

It's a subtle shift and people have failed to notice it by continued use of "we" and "us" when what is meant is "the NHS".

I'll stick to boosting my immune system with Vitamin D. It may not be as effective as a vaccine but it sure as hell doesn't come with death as an apparently acceptable side effect.

Typical of someone who has “done the research”

Theres been more than five variants. We didn’t just jump to Omicron

[James54De]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

It's been around for at least a month, more than enough time for doctors or scientists to have been able to come to some sort of conclusion, so far the vast majority of people who have had it are now recovered and were not hospitalised I mean a 255% increase in cases in S Africa and a tiny rise in hospital cases how much more proof do you need?

It’s no where near a “tiny rise”. Hospitalisations have increased by 600% in South Africa. 

[MarcusX]

11 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Don’t know how to highlight a sentence so when you say you would promote healthy eating and exercise I have to ask why,everyone bloody knows it’s better than eating 12 Big Mac meals so why waste money on what is someone’s choice 

You say that but it’s not that simple. I bet most people couldn’t tell you how many calories they should be eating per day or the breakdown of macro and micronutrients for actual health benefits.

Exercise is also a minefield if you look at it from someone who has never stepped in a gym before. Every PT you speak to will likely have a different opinion on what is “good” and “bad” - and factor in people who can’t run or walk maybe, what can they do to exercise? Or the elderly and the disabled?

Trying to get my disabled father in law to exercise for example is very difficult. He needs a PT who specialises in helping people with his condition to understand what he can and can’t do and how to work around those limitations.

He has to pay for that PT himself 

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

On the actual football bits, spot checks being mooted.

Could that cause issues or am I underestimating people's understanding of the issues. Bit in the Times today speaks of it being up to SAGs to decide whether all fans should be checked.

Says something about SAGs stipulating the numbers that would need checking. Suggests 1 in 4 could be the number but I guess it could be a bit of a postcode lottery.

As for the other stuff, would ask indeed what happened to the Nightingale Hospitals. Could be very useful.

Other bit, Matt Hughes has said in the Daily Mail that clubs are scrambling for extra stewards in order to try and make this work.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10290411/Premier-League-EFL-clubs-scramble-hire-stewards-Plan-B-Covid-restrictions.html

There wasn’t enough staff for the nightingale hospitals, it was a publicity stunt. A Tory donor probably profited from their setup.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

There wasn’t enough staff for the nightingale hospitals, it was a publicity stunt. A Tory donor probably profited from their setup.

 

Ah yes, now I remember.

I suppose too thinking about it, Nightingale Hospitals would have been more relevant when it was treated as a State of Emergency kinda thing, business functions of say Exhibition Centres given over to Nightingale Hospitals.

UAE own Excel I know that, Abu Dhabi National Exhibitions Company to be exact. Wonder how much they made from it. Blackstone were another involved in the Nightingale side, although a report did say both scrapped charges. No idea if it's true.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, The Bard said:

That's more to do with "is that person carrying an explosive device or weapon' 

 

Just on that note, that check, this check and the fact a lot of fans rock up at grounds in the final hour or less before kickoff.

Potentially it could be chaos but time will tell.

[SuperDziek]

Wonder how many pages this will get to once Plan C is announced!

[BrizzleRed]

6 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

The normal rules for licensing a vaccine together with liability of the manufacturer for side effects.

This is very wordy but it's in there; stated reason being (obviously) that it's a pandemic.

https://post.parliament.uk/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-uk/

 

If you look at how a vaccine is usually tested then here is the TB one for cattle which is required to have a four year trial before it can be licensed for general use.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/green-light-for-ground-breaking-bovine-tb-vaccine-field-trials

 

Just wondering what your proposed alternative would be?  

Do you sit on the vaccine for 4 years and test while possibly millions are dying, or do what has been done?  

It’s undeniably tragic for the 75 people who have reportedly died due to the vaccine, but I wonder how many of the 150,000 who’ve died of covid would have jumped at the chance to get a jab to try and save their life.

There are rarely absolutes in this world, but if this vaccine release was a calculated gamble, it’s been a very successful one and I shudder to think what state the world would be now without it.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Back to the original purpose of this thread which was how will it affect us going to AG, are vaccine passports a thing from today or do they not kick in till next week?

[Eddie Hitler]

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

Just wondering what your proposed alternative would be?  

Do you sit on the vaccine for 4 years and test while possibly millions are dying, or do what has been done?  

It’s undeniably tragic for the 75 people who have reportedly died due to the vaccine, but I wonder how many of the 150,000 who’ve died of covid would have jumped at the chance to get a jab to try and save their life.

There are rarely absolutes in this world, but if this vaccine release was a calculated gamble, it’s been a very successful one and I shudder to think what state the world would be now without it.

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

[lenred]

5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Back to the original purpose of this thread which was how will it affect us going to AG, are vaccine passports a thing from today or do they not kick in till next week?

Next week I believe although I think some clubs have already implemented spot checks. Last chance for the non believers today! 

Edited December 11, 2021 by lenred

[Bristol Rob]

8 minutes ago, lenred said:

Next week I believe although I think some clubs have already implemented spot checks. Last chance for the non believers today! 

A bit like Mike Nesbit.

Then I saw her face, now I'm a late non believer.

[Kid in the Riot]

3 hours ago, Harry said:

“Most mutations aren’t more dangerous, and any dangerous mutations are very rare.”

No, I’m not an epidemiologist. But that’s what 100% of them will tell you. 

They will also advise not to let a new virus, which kills, to go unchecked and tear through societies, including new strains which they still know little about.

Hence, the courses of action that have been recommended/taken over the past two years. 

[BrizzleRed]

38 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

Can understand that.  The point is any, and I mean any vaccine or other medication carries a potential risk, so where do you draw the line?   

I’d be interested to know if there’s any poll that’s been done with un-vaxinated people in hospital with covid.  It would certainly be interesting to know if given their situation, they wished they would have opted for the jab after all, or are still glad they didn’t.  I’m not a betting man, but I reckon the majority wish they could turn back the clock.

The danger is, it appears that many aren’t making informed decisions about not having the vaccine and are instead basing their decision on rubbish they see on social media, a friend has heard, or some bloke down the pub.

It still seems odd that many seem willing to trust the opinions of the uninformed and rumours, rather than the experts in their field.

[Mr Popodopolous]

58 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Everyone makes their own decision based upon balance of probabilities but the choice is informed by the fact that the normal rules to ensure that vaccines are safe have been removed.

If I was over 70 or already ill then I would have chosen to have one of the vaccines; as I'm neither I haven't.

What I am against is the huge exhortation for everyone to take one of the several vaccines multiple times without flagging up that these would in normal times be regarded as still very much trial / experimental vaccines.

Ironically, one Vaccine that might be safer, more traditional tech isn't on offer! Valneva, we ie the Government suddenly withdrew interest in September.

[BrizzleRed]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ironically, one Vaccine that might be safer, more traditional tech isn't on offer! Valneva, we ie the Government suddenly withdrew interest in September.

Interesting.  Was it because it was less effective, or other reasons?

[GrahamC]

Boy this thread is depressing.

The “tin foil hats, it’s all a government conspiracy, why should I get vaccinated” are out in force.

Omicron is going to be seriously bad news, forget what South Africa shows, as the populations aren’t remotely comparable, theirs is far younger & has a lifestyle more attuned to outdoors, plus the rate at which it spreads is far, far faster than previous strains.

The current measures far from being too much, aren’t going to be enough or we’ll have thousands of additional deaths.

Of course though I only say this because I am also part of some sinister cabal that wants to put a microchip in every citizen, including children..