Should Saturdays match be played?

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

15 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I stood by my comments. Problem is, people don’t understand what is actually going on. And how few healthy people under 60 are actually dying. 

Lucky for us then you clearly know so much more than everyone else 

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

Great that we have a medical expert on the forum.

 

Haha he couldn’t be further from one

[Riaz]

8 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I didn't bother responding as you admitted you had based your posts that the jabs would sterilize people off literally nothing. It's like me saying "I think the jab will at some point in the future turn everyone's index finger purple!". Totally meaningless. That's not free thinking.

The irony of you posting that crap, which is incredibly emotive without a SHRED of evidence while whinging all the time about "the media" and "fearmongering" is staggering.

I said from day one, i don’t know what the alterior motive is, but i said my suspicion was to effect fertility. That remains to be seen if i was right. I still think i will be proven correct.
But we will see

What’s the government agenda?

To scare people, take their rights away and be able to control people

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Another halfwit for the block list - the biggest pandemic is idiocy 

[Riaz]

4 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

This is wrong, it has

Feel like a parrot here. But can you provide a link?

As i said before, would he plastered everywhere.

All we saw was one person died WITH…

1 minute ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Another halfwit for the block list - the biggest pandemic is idiocy 

Indeed, sheep everywhere who can’t think for themselves or search for information

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Lucky for us then you clearly know so much more than everyone else 

Don’t claim to know more than the next person. Plenty of information online. 
 

A lot of what i have said has/was based on official figures 

[ChippenhamRed]

21 minutes ago, Riaz said:

It’s being reported elsewhere that it’s mild. 
Our government has an agenda.

I replied and he didn’t ruin me at all. 
 

I stood by my comments. Problem is, people don’t understand what is actually going on. And how few healthy people under 60 are actually dying. 

If you actually had the intellectual capacity to read and understand my post you would realise that the variant being “mild” entirely misses the point.

[ChippenhamRed]

5 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I said from day one, i don’t know what the alterior motive is, but i said my suspicion was to effect fertility. That remains to be seen if i was right. I still think i will be proven correct.
But we will see

What’s the government agenda?

To scare people, take their rights away and be able to control people

Good grief. Beyond help.

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I said from day one, i don’t know what the alterior motive is, but i said my suspicion was to effect fertility. That remains to be seen if i was right. I still think i will be proven correct.
But we will see

What’s the government agenda?

To scare people, take their rights away and be able to control people

Do you read back what you write? Jesus wept. Did you watch Fortress last night or something?

Anyway, would you agree that the vaccine is preventing a large number of deaths? 

(Hint: if you say “yes” it’ll really hurt you. If you say “no” you’ll discredit yourself as much as your population control conspiracy.) 

You choose. 

[Riaz]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Do you read back what you write? Jesus wept. Did you watch Fortress last night or something?

Anyway, would you agree that the vaccine is preventing a large number of deaths? 

(Hint: if you say “yes” it’ll really hurt you. If you say “no” you’ll discredit yourself as much as your population control conspiracy.) 

You choose. 

It has prevented deaths.

But it’s nowhere near as effective has the trials said they would be.

Certainly not enough to coerce or force people to have it. 
 

And i think is lots of information being surpressed about side effects and what it does to peoples immune systems 

[Spoons]

Dr Riaz

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

Can you find me a news article that explicitly says someone had died OF the variant… 

But not WITH like Boris announced.

Should be easy enough to find. The media would be getting the maximum fear out of it. 

Again showing your complete lack of medical knowledge.

Peoplr don’t always die OF the thing that caused their downfall. AIDs is a huge example of this, it tears down the body’s immune system making it more susceptible to other infections.

That’s why there’s more than one line on a death certificate.

Similarly if someone dies because of a blood clot caused by the vaccine, did the vaccine not kill them if technically not was a blood clot?

Also looks like the bloke who died was described as fit and healthy albeit over 60

24 minutes ago, Riaz said:

It’s being reported elsewhere that it’s mild. 
Our government has an agenda.

I replied and he didn’t ruin me at all. 
 

I stood by my comments. Problem is, people don’t understand what is actually going on. And how few healthy people under 60 are actually dying. 

Shifting the goal posts but anyway, how many people under 60 are “healthy”. 2/3 of the population are overweight, 1/3 are obese.

Only the unhealthy is such a bollocks statement because it ignores the fact that so many people are not “healthy”.

As for your nonsense about fertility. Zero evidence or education to back that up, just a complete conspiracy theory

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, Riaz said:

I said from day one, i don’t know what the alterior motive is, but i said my suspicion was to effect fertility. That remains to be seen if i was right. I still think i will be proven correct.
But we will see

What’s the government agenda?

To scare people, take their rights away and be able to control people

But if you have no idea, the problem is you can and will point at anything and everything as some kind of step towards your undefined end state.

I'm confused why all these countries would band together to do this, and why the companies/universities  who make their money from healing sick people would want to reduce the number of people there are.

 

Our government is pretty good at taking our rights away regardless if it wants to. Now if you said they have at times used this as a slight excuse to push other legislation they wanted through I might agree - but it's a one way process for me. They're not then making things seem worse to then get even more through.

Again, if you think the above isn't a conspiracy theory, and you're not a conspiracy theorist, I suggest you look up the definition:

"A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable"

Check!

"Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[8][12] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proven or disproven."

Check!

"Conspiracy theorists see themselves as having privileged access to socially persecuted knowledge or a stigmatized mode of thought that separates them from the masses who believe the official account"

Check!

It's word for word what you say. You need help - and I genuinely mean that. Don't fall down this rabbit hole too far as you'll never get out.

[Riaz]

1 minute ago, Spoons said:

Dr Riaz

Just an average person, who does not trust the government
 

Dont think i am better than anyone 

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Again showing your complete lack of medical knowledge.

Peoplr don’t always die OF the thing that caused their downfall. AIDs is a huge example of this, it tears down the body’s immune system making it more susceptible to other infections.

That’s why there’s more than one line on a death certificate.

Similarly if someone dies because of a blood clot caused by the vaccine, did the vaccine not kill them if technically not was a blood clot?

Also looks like the bloke who died was described as fit and healthy albeit over 60

Shifting the goal posts but anyway, how many people under 60 are “healthy”. 2/3 of the population are overweight, 1/3 are obese.

Only the unhealthy is such a bollocks statement because it ignores the fact that so many people are not “healthy”.

As for your nonsense about fertility. Zero evidence or education to back that up, just a complete conspiracy theory

I’m not moving any goal posts.

Under 60’s without underlying health conditions. It’s been very low, the whole time. 

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

But if you have no idea, the problem is you can and will point at anything and everything as some kind of step towards your undefined end state.

I'm confused why all these countries would band together to do this, and why the companies/universities  who make their money from healing sick people would want to reduce the number of people there are.

 

Our government is pretty good at taking our rights away regardless if it wants to. Now if you said they have at times used this as a slight excuse to push other legislation they wanted through I might agree - but it's a one way process for me. They're not then making things seem worse to then get even more through.

Again, if you think the above isn't a conspiracy theory, and you're not a conspiracy theorist, I suggest you look up the definition:

"A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable"

Check!

"Conspiracy theories resist falsification and are reinforced by circular reasoning: both evidence against the conspiracy and an absence of evidence for it are re-interpreted as evidence of its truth,[8][12] whereby the conspiracy becomes a matter of faith rather than something that can be proven or disproven."

Check!

"Conspiracy theorists see themselves as having privileged access to socially persecuted knowledge or a stigmatized mode of thought that separates them from the masses who believe the official account"

Check!

It's word for word what you say. You need help - and I genuinely mean that. Don't fall down this rabbit hole too far as you'll never get out.

Lots of conspiracies turn out to be true! 
 

 

[IAmNick]

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Lots of conspiracies turn out to be true! 

A few do, out of the millions and millions that don't and are very quietly forgotten. I'm struggling to think of anything even approaching this scale though - that's the problem with a conspiracy. People are pretty useless!

It's just like when you read the betting threads on here and everyone is up for the year, and the last few years too in fact.

We've probably got about 100 forgotten conspiracy theories since covid started already!

Edited December 16, 2021 by IAmNick

[Vespa Red]

I won't be going despite this due to be my boys' birthday football day out which we do every year.  Bought tickets for them and all.

Some of you know my wife is ill: I cannot risk taking the virus home under those circumstances.

[BTRFTG]

16 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Don’t claim to know more than the next person. Plenty of information online. 
 

A lot of what i have said has/was based on official figures 

Sunday Sport proved Elvis to be riding Shergar on the moon with Lord Lucan as his groom. Go to their online presence and there's a whole load of fact one might barely think credible - plus Tony 'Loudmouth' Livesey, now of credible 5Live, was once was their Editor in Chief, so must be true.....

[Fordy62]

13 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

A few do, out of the millions and millions that don't and are very quietly forgotten. I'm struggling to think of anything even approaching this scale though - that's the problem with a conspiracy. People are pretty useless!

It's just like when you read the betting threads on here and everyone is up for the year, and the last few years too in fact.

We've probably got about 100 forgotten conspiracy theories since covid started already!

Covid emanated from 5G masts. Look at those initial hotspots. All close to newly installed 5G masts. 

[BCFC Grim]

5 hours ago, Riaz said:

The new variant is mild and hasnt killed anyone yet. Not here or abroad.

Get on with your life.

Absolutely amazed at people's attitude this time round. I thought alot would have your attitude but seems the scaremongering really has made people afraid. Didn't the doctor  who discovered this virus say she is amazed at the over reaction from us? 

I've done everything I've been told up to now. I'll be getting on with things as normal from now on. Lockdown or no lockdown.Respect peoples space, but that's that.

Edited December 16, 2021 by BCFC Grim

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

Absolutely amazed at people's attitude this time round. I thought alot would have your attitude but seems the scaremongering really has made people afraid. Didn't the doctor  who discovered this virus say she is amazed at the over reaction from us? 

I've done everything I've been told up to now. I'll be getting on with things as normal from now on. Lockdown or no lockdown.Respect peoples space, but that's that.

I believe she did indeed 

[chinapig]

40 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Feel like a parrot here. But can you provide a link?

As i said before, would he plastered everywhere.

All we saw was one person died WITH…

Indeed, sheep everywhere who can’t think for themselves or search for information

What is your source? coronavirus.data.gov? The Office for National Statistics? Johns Hopkins University or Our World in Data for a more global analysis? Have you downloaded the data to do your own analysis so as to reach your own conclusions? If so could you share?

Or is it social media?

[archie andrews]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

What is your source? coronavirus.data.gov? The Office for National Statistics? Johns Hopkins University or Our World in Data for a more global analysis? Have you downloaded the data to do your own analysis so as to reach your own conclusions? If so could you share?

Or is it social media?

He got it off a bloke down the pub... 

[Baba Yaga]

Is this a conspiracy theory?

https://interestingengineering.com/bill-gates-backed-firm-to-release-150k-gene-hacked-mosquitoes-in-florida

[Riaz]

9 minutes ago, chinapig said:

What is your source? coronavirus.data.gov? The Office for National Statistics? Johns Hopkins University or Our World in Data for a more global analysis? Have you downloaded the data to do your own analysis so as to reach your own conclusions? If so could you share?

Or is it social media?

Various news articles stated there had been no deaths from the omicron variant and if there were any deaths, it would be plastered everywhere. 
 

Feel free to prove me wrong tho. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Riaz

[TonyTonyTony]

4 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Various news articles stated there had been no deaths from the omicron variant and if there were any deaths, it would be plastered everywhere. 
 

Feel free to prove me wrong tho. 

You are a bit thick. Sorry, I mean very thick

People don’t die from Covid instantly. It takes time. Since Omicron has only been over here a few weeks it takes time.

Come back gloating in a few weeks. In the mean time go do some crayons

[Northern Red]

 

[Riaz]

Just now, TonyTonyTony said:

You are a bit thick. Sorry, I mean very thick

People don’t die from Covid instantly. It takes time. Since Omicron has only been over here a few weeks it takes time.

Come back gloating in a few weeks. In the mean time go do some crayons

Ah personal insults
 

It originated in South Africa and they are shocked at our extreme response… the lady who discovered it (Dr Angelique Coetzee) thinks we are over-reacting - is she thick?

 

[Mike Stone]

I consider myself to be a fairly strong 55 year old.  I went down with covid shortly after the Coventry game which wasn't a surprise considering the packed train, pub and concourse.

I dont mind saying it hit the stuffing out of me for a month with breathing being very difficult,  no work pub or football and almost 6 weeks later my chest still isn't great.  In my opinion without the jabs I would of been in the Gloucester Royal.

We have to do something to help the poor sods in the hospitals who are working their socks off, they need a break.

Shut it down for a month, what harm can it do.

 

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, Mike Stone said:

I consider myself to be a fairly strong 55 year old.  I went down with covid shortly after the Coventry game which wasn't a surprise considering the packed train, pub and concourse.

I dont mind saying it hit the stuffing out of me for a month with breathing being very difficult,  no work pub or football and almost 6 weeks later my chest still isn't great.  In my opinion without the jabs I would of been in the Gloucester Royal.

We have to do something to help the poor sods in the hospitals who are working their socks off, they need a break.

Shut it down for a month, what harm can it do.

 

The best way to help the hospital staff is for the government to have done something, anything, in the last 21 months to have spent time money and dedication to finding and authorising treatments which can help people in the early stages of covid rather than letting them suffer for a couple of weeks before having to be hospitalised. 
As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
21 months. Nothing. What do you get from Test & Trace when you are confirmed positive? You’re told “stay at home for 10 days”. What you should be getting nearly 2 years in is advice on treatments which you can be prescribed to help prevent you ending up in hospital. The vaccine isn’t a ‘treatment’. There are lots of drugs out there that have performed well in trials but no government is currently willing to consider them because all their eggs are in a big jabby basket. 
To help the NHS, we need some pre-hospitalisation treatments. 
Well, that, and of course more capacity, more nurses etc. But they’ve done the square root of bugger all except push jab after jab after jab. 
They’ve literally got the treatment of covid all wrong and aren’t doing anything to correct their mistakes. 

[Mike Stone]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

The best way to help the hospital staff is for the government to have done something, anything, in the last 21 months to have spent time money and dedication to finding and authorising treatments which can help people in the early stages of covid rather than letting them suffer for a couple of weeks before having to be hospitalised. 
As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
21 months. Nothing. What do you get from Test & Trace when you are confirmed positive? You’re told “stay at home for 10 days”. What you should be getting nearly 2 years in is advice on treatments which you can be prescribed to help prevent you ending up in hospital. The vaccine isn’t a ‘treatment’. There are lots of drugs out there that have performed well in trials but no government is currently willing to consider them because all their eggs are in a big jabby basket. 
To help the NHS, we need some pre-hospitalisation treatments. 
Well, that, and of course more capacity, more nurses etc. But they’ve done the square root of bugger all except push jab after jab after jab. 
They’ve literally got the treatment of covid all wrong and aren’t doing anything to correct their mistakes. 

Goodnight professor 

[East Londoner]

45 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Ah personal insults
 

It originated in South Africa and they are shocked at our extreme response… the lady who discovered it (Dr Angelique Coetzee) thinks we are over-reacting - is she thick?

 

Having researched that particular doctor the cynic in me is beginning to wonder if Boris is using this variant as a distraction and so is happy to allow the scaremongering to continue 

But obviously people are weary after the original version and the delta one and so believe what they’re being told. Personally i don’t believe a word he says and time will tell but it’s worth noting scientists admit all these worst case scenarios are based on assumptions due to the lack of worthwhile data 

[sh1t_ref_again]

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

The best way to help the hospital staff is for the government to have done something, anything, in the last 21 months to have spent time money and dedication to finding and authorising treatments which can help people in the early stages of covid rather than letting them suffer for a couple of weeks before having to be hospitalised. 
As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
21 months. Nothing. What do you get from Test & Trace when you are confirmed positive? You’re told “stay at home for 10 days”. What you should be getting nearly 2 years in is advice on treatments which you can be prescribed to help prevent you ending up in hospital. The vaccine isn’t a ‘treatment’. There are lots of drugs out there that have performed well in trials but no government is currently willing to consider them because all their eggs are in a big jabby basket. 
To help the NHS, we need some pre-hospitalisation treatments. 
Well, that, and of course more capacity, more nurses etc. But they’ve done the square root of bugger all except push jab after jab after jab. 
They’ve literally got the treatment of covid all wrong and aren’t doing anything to correct their mistakes. 

What like Lagevrio that is being sent out to vulnerable people

[TonyTonyTony]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

Ah personal insults

Coming from a bloke who once cited David Icke as being correct.

You have zero credibility

[cidercity1987]

1 hour ago, BCFC Grim said:

Absolutely amazed at people's attitude this time round. I thought alot would have your attitude but seems the scaremongering really has made people afraid. Didn't the doctor  who discovered this virus say she is amazed at the over reaction from us? 

I've done everything I've been told up to now. I'll be getting on with things as normal from now on. Lockdown or no lockdown.Respect peoples space, but that's that.

Surely its more like people don't want their Christmas ruined by catching it just before, with this variant seemingly rampant.

City v Huddersfield or Christmas with friends and family, not a tough choice.

[Henry]

34 minutes ago, Harry said:

The best way to help the hospital staff is for the government to have done something, anything, in the last 21 months to have spent time money and dedication to finding and authorising treatments which can help people in the early stages of covid rather than letting them suffer for a couple of weeks before having to be hospitalised. 
As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
21 months. Nothing. What do you get from Test & Trace when you are confirmed positive? You’re told “stay at home for 10 days”. What you should be getting nearly 2 years in is advice on treatments which you can be prescribed to help prevent you ending up in hospital. The vaccine isn’t a ‘treatment’. There are lots of drugs out there that have performed well in trials but no government is currently willing to consider them because all their eggs are in a big jabby basket. 
To help the NHS, we need some pre-hospitalisation treatments. 
Well, that, and of course more capacity, more nurses etc. But they’ve done the square root of bugger all except push jab after jab after jab. 
They’ve literally got the treatment of covid all wrong and aren’t doing anything to correct their mistakes. 

There are several anti virals being used to treat covid. A new treatment for people to take at home is being trialled at the moment.

[TonyTonyTony]

33 minutes ago, Harry said:

As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
 

You like the sound of your own voice you windbag.

Treatments are coming on stream but as it stands vaccination is the best protection available. What other country has better “treatments”? None. Funding is a global effort. 

[Mike Stone]

6 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You like the sound of your own voice you windbag.

Treatments are coming on stream but as it stands vaccination is the best protection available. What other country has better “treatments”? None. Funding is a global effort. 

Well said

Mind you I told him previously I'd gone to bed only because I haven't got your intelligence 

Up the City

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Coming from a bloke who once cited David Icke as being correct.

You have zero credibility

Look, I only wear a purple, nylon tracksuit, sleep within a circle of zirconium crystals, have covered my windows with aluminium foil and swear when close up to Prince Philip I observed scaley nodules on his sunburnt, Greek snozzle. Plus, I've never contracted Covid.

If that doesn't provide credibility, what might?

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Riaz said:

I’m not moving any goal posts.

Under 60’s without underlying health conditions. It’s been very low, the whole time. 

Again, how many people under 60 are "healthy"?

Even still, lets talk underlying health conditions.

8 million people in the UK have asthma
4 million people are diabetic
2.5 million people are living with cancer, 1000 people a day are diagnosed.
Something like 14 million adults are obese

15 million people are over 60

It's too easy to dismiss this as "only" affecting the old and unwell, but when you break it down that's millions and millions of people.

And are they not worth the same as anyone else? Are they less human because they were born with or developed an illness?

Please. Really interested in your comments on this because I think its a disgusting attitude to just dismiss the old, unwell and disabled.

 

 

5 hours ago, Riaz said:

Lots of conspiracies turn out to be true! 
 

 

How many as a percentage?

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Riaz said:

Ah personal insults
 

It originated in South Africa and they are shocked at our extreme response… the lady who discovered it (Dr Angelique Coetzee) thinks we are over-reacting - is she thick?

 

This isn't strictly true either. It was discovered in South Africa but it was since found in cases in Europe before it was found in South Africa.

 

[pillred]

4 hours ago, Riaz said:

Various news articles stated there had been no deaths from the omicron variant and if there were any deaths, it would be plastered everywhere. 
 

Feel free to prove me wrong tho. 

There have been 171 deaths in S Africa in the past 7 days from Omicron, look on the internet it's being reported in the S African press.

[Atlanta_Red]

Statistically, one has as much chance of dying on set with Alec Baldwin than with this particular strain. 

[RedM]

6 hours ago, Henry said:

There are several anti virals being used to treat covid. A new treatment for people to take at home is being trialled at the moment.

I heard about this yesterday. In some parts of the country positive people are being couriered out new medication ( or a single pill maybe?) to see if that will prevent the need for them to be possibly hospitalised. This was the first time I heard anything than the isolate message for people.

[oldstandrobin]

16 hours ago, Riaz said:

90% vaccinated

This world has gone mad

true, but even poor old Jethro had been double vaccinated and had a booster and contracted Covid 19.  But I cannot find anywhere what he passed with, perhaps convenient for the media not to tell us why 

[Fordy62]

21 minutes ago, oldstandrobin said:

true, but even poor old Jethro had been double vaccinated and had a booster and contracted Covid 19.  But I cannot find anywhere what he passed with, perhaps convenient for the media not to tell us why 

I think the words “passed away after contracting covid-19” tells us all we need to know doesn’t it?

[Harry]

9 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Goodnight professor 

 

9 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

You like the sound of your own voice you windbag.

Treatments are coming on stream but as it stands vaccination is the best protection available. What other country has better “treatments”? None. Funding is a global effort. 

 

9 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Well said

Mind you I told him previously I'd gone to bed only because I haven't got your intelligence 

Up the City

Mmmm….not really sure what part of my post was incorrect. 
More nurses. More NHS capacity, more focus on treatment to prevent hospitalisation. 
Are those things disagreeable to you both? 

[chinapig]

11 hours ago, Riaz said:

Various news articles stated there had been no deaths from the omicron variant and if there were any deaths, it would be plastered everywhere. 
 

Feel free to prove me wrong tho. 

I see, so your focus is on that metric in respect of Omicron specifically. If I may say so that seems to be a common mistake, including among politicians and journalists.

In current circumstances the key metric is likely hospitalisations. We do not yet know if it is less virulent than Delta though the signs may be hopeful. We do know however that it is at least 3 times more transmissible, which will translate into far more cases. The current R number is between 3 and 5, varying regionally, much higher than Delta

So even if a lower proportion of people with Omicron are hospitalised than is the case with Delta the absolute number will be at least as high. The NHS is already at 94% capacity so we need to try to suppress those numbers.

And of course Delta is still with us, cases having been at a consistently high level since July. Unless and until Omicron out-competes Delta we are dealing with 2 variants at once.

It will be another couple of weeks before we have a clearer idea of the proportion of cases that lead to death, given the time lag between the two. South Africa is not a good comparator for the UK as the demographics are very different - in particular we have an older population.

As to news reports, regardless of their media of choice, I would always urge people to go to the reputable data sources (on any subject) if they want to be fully informed before reaching a conclusion. We are all prone to biases but a bit of research can help overcome them.

 

[BTRFTG]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

The best way to help the hospital staff is for the government to have done something, anything, in the last 21 months to have spent time money and dedication to finding and authorising treatments which can help people in the early stages of covid rather than letting them suffer for a couple of weeks before having to be hospitalised. 
As I’ve said before, the focus has been on jab jab jab, without any effort being poured into funding any actual proper ‘treatments’. 
21 months. Nothing. What do you get from Test & Trace when you are confirmed positive? You’re told “stay at home for 10 days”. What you should be getting nearly 2 years in is advice on treatments which you can be prescribed to help prevent you ending up in hospital. The vaccine isn’t a ‘treatment’. There are lots of drugs out there that have performed well in trials but no government is currently willing to consider them because all their eggs are in a big jabby basket. 
To help the NHS, we need some pre-hospitalisation treatments. 
Well, that, and of course more capacity, more nurses etc. But they’ve done the square root of bugger all except push jab after jab after jab. 
They’ve literally got the treatment of covid all wrong and aren’t doing anything to correct their mistakes. 

I should be shocked at your level of ignorance, though as I suspect you're one of those unable to identify a library come Saturday afternoon, a bloke who lives in an estate akin a small US state given the size of your garden shed (replete with windows and door,) I'm not.

The word you were looking for (but couldn't find,) is therapeutics. As well as dictionaries libraries also hold a useful series of publications, newspaper and journals alike. Read those and you'll have discovered huge steps have been taken in not only identifying how existing drugs have successfully been deployed to counteract Covid but also new drugs developed and approved; sotrovimab and molnupiravir being the latest, with dozens more in the pipeline.

Now you've laid blame fully at the feet of Government, despite the fact Government neither develops nor approves therapeutics and treatment protocols, the latter being the responsibility of the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA.) Hint: the word 'Agency' denotes a body funded by but wholly INDEPENDENT of its funder. Now they know their stuff and will readily confirm vaccines are treatments, despite your believing otherwise. Much as the concoction of drugs many of us take each day are treatments. They are because they cause our bodies to do things they would otherwise not of themselves do. It's called preventative treatment.

Correcting mistakes? Ball's more in your court than theirs.

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

 

Mmmm….not really sure what part of my post was incorrect. 
More nurses. More NHS capacity, more focus on treatment to prevent hospitalisation. 
Are those things disagreeable to you both? 

The only thing you’ve missed out on is explaining where that magic money tree forest is!

The Welsh and Scots are now saying they’d like to re-introduce furlough, even though the government hasn’t actually closed anything down.  Drakeford was on this morning saying how unfair it was that the nasty UK government is being unfair to the devolved governments by not agreeing to pay up.

Anyone would think there was a bottom-less pit filled with money you can just dip into at will and never has to be paid back.

[Harry]

11 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

The only thing you’ve missed out on is explaining where that magic money tree forest is!

The Welsh and Scots are now saying they’d like to re-introduce furlough, even though the government hasn’t actually closed anything down.  Drakeford was on this morning saying how unfair it was that the nasty UK government is being unfair to the devolved governments by not agreeing to pay up.

Anyone would think there was a bottom-less pit filled with money you can just dip into at will and never has to be paid back.

The money has been there for everything else. 

[Harry]

21 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I should be shocked at your level of ignorance, though as I suspect you're one of those unable to identify a library come Saturday afternoon, a bloke who lives in an estate akin a small US state given the size of your garden shed (replete with windows and door,) I'm not.

The word you were looking for (but couldn't find,) is therapeutics. As well as dictionaries libraries also hold a useful series of publications, newspaper and journals alike. Read those and you'll have discovered huge steps have been taken in not only identifying how existing drugs have successfully been deployed to counteract Covid but also new drugs developed and approved; sotrovimab and molnupiravir being the latest, with dozens more in the pipeline.

Now you've laid blame fully at the feet of Government, despite the fact Government neither develops nor approves therapeutics and treatment protocols, the latter being the responsibility of the Medicines and Healthcare Regulatory Agency (MHRA.) Hint: the word 'Agency' denotes a body funded by but wholly INDEPENDENT of its funder. Now they know their stuff and will readily confirm vaccines are treatments, despite your believing otherwise. Much as the concoction of drugs many of us take each day are treatments. They are because they cause our bodies to do things they would otherwise not of themselves do. It's called preventative treatment.

Correcting mistakes? Ball's more in your court than theirs.

So, broadly, you agree that early treatments (or indeed therapeutics - that wasn’t the word I was looking for, I used the term early treatments because that was exactly how I wanted to describe it) are worth investment. 
Oh, and no need to be so superior, arrogant and condescending about it. 

[BrizzleRed]

Just now, Harry said:

The money has been there for everything else. 

Yes and that has to be paid back too.

This is the real world, not some fluffy idealistic paradise where you wave a magic wand and every one of the world’s ills are fixed.  We all know a lot of things can be fixed by throwing money at it, but that can’t go on indefinitely when you can’t afford it.

By your comment, you suggest because we’ve already spent loads, there must be loads more available.  I think we’ll all be in for a rude awakening when we see what cuts will have to made to pay this lot back, let alone add even more to the huge debts.

[Out of his pie crust]

Insults, accusations, bickering.

it’s starting to look a lot like Christmas 

[BTRFTG]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

So, broadly, you agree that early treatments (or indeed therapeutics - that wasn’t the word I was looking for, I used the term early treatments because that was exactly how I wanted to describe it) are worth investment. 
Oh, and no need to be so superior, arrogant and condescending about it. 

Nothing superior, arrogant or condescending, simply providing a public service in correcting untruths presented as fact. 

[GrahamC]

29 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

The only thing you’ve missed out on is explaining where that magic money tree forest is!

The Welsh and Scots are now saying they’d like to re-introduce furlough, even though the government hasn’t actually closed anything down.  Drakeford was on this morning saying how unfair it was that the nasty UK government is being unfair to the devolved governments by not agreeing to pay up.

Anyone would think there was a bottom-less pit filled with money you can just dip into at will and never has to be paid back.

That’s basically how the Scots & Welsh operate, England pays for it, they spend it.

[chinapig]

8 minutes ago, Harry said:

So, broadly, you agree that early treatments (or indeed therapeutics - that wasn’t the word I was looking for, I used the term early treatments because that was exactly how I wanted to describe it) are worth investment. 
Oh, and no need to be so superior, arrogant and condescending about it. 

On a point of information, the NHS is to use new anti virals:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/treatments-for-coronavirus/

I imagine Pfizer's new anti viral Paxlovid will follow.

This is earlier research on treatments:

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/

[Redtucks]

21 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I have little confidence in the system currently being used to stop the spread of this new variant. 

Vaccine passports are available if you have had 2 jabs, but it would seem Omicron variant can still be caught and spread readily by anyone with 2 jabs. If you have not been jabbed then you require a natural flow test, which not convinced on accuracy and anyone who thinks they are fine or is not bothered about spreading the virus and just wants to go to footy whatever, can just scan the test to say they are clear, without even taking the test.

Added to this the lack of requirement to wear a mask (although I think a few more will be wearing again)

We all want to watch live football, but at what cost?

I've been saying this all week, but have yet to see it questioned on any of the TV interviews/forums or whatever.

Vaccine passports should show vaccines including boosters or an official negative PCR test.

 

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That’s basically how the Scots & Welsh operate, England pays for it, they spend it.

So true

I’ll bet if they ever get independence, they’ll still be expecting financial support from the UK for years.

[hollydog]

28 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That’s basically how the Scots & Welsh operate, England pays for it, they spend it.

Need to be careful with that argument - (Scottish) North Sea Oil was the only thing that kept the Thatcher government solvent in the 80’s. 

[Redandproud]

44 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

I've been saying this all week, but have yet to see it questioned on any of the TV interviews/forums or whatever.

Vaccine passports should show vaccines including boosters or an official negative PCR test.

 

It does, whether fail or pass, on the official NHS app, 

[Redtucks]

17 minutes ago, Redandproud said:

It does, whether fail or pass, on the official NHS app, 

My point is that at present you need to show a vaccine passport (which does not show any booster jabs), or a negative lateral flow test result (which can be forged at home).

Even a PCR test, which seems to be mainly done by yourself in your car at a test centre, and can therefore easily be made to show a negative result, is not really satisfactory, unless it is caried out by a doctor/nurse or other trained staff.

 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

My point is that at present you need to show a vaccine passport (which does not show any booster jabs), or a negative lateral flow test result (which can be forged at home).

Even a PCR test, which seems to be mainly done by yourself in your car at a test centre, and can therefore easily be made to show a negative result, is not really satisfactory, unless it is caried out by a doctor/nurse or other trained staff.

 

Assuming you mean the NHS app, mine shows my booster.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Yes and that has to be paid back too.

This is the real world, not some fluffy idealistic paradise where you wave a magic wand and every one of the world’s ills are fixed.  We all know a lot of things can be fixed by throwing money at it, but that can’t go on indefinitely when you can’t afford it.

By your comment, you suggest because we’ve already spent loads, there must be loads more available.  I think we’ll all be in for a rude awakening when we see what cuts will have to made to pay this lot back, let alone add even more to the huge debts.

My point was more that, all the money that’s been wasted on the other things could and should have been better spent trying to actually treat this virus rather than run away from it (lockdowns), max out the credit card (furlough), profligate (test & trace, wasteful ppe contracts etc) and provide false hope (3 vaccines in 9 months that still don’t protect). 

A lot of money, time and resource has gone on the strategies listed above. Yes, there are now, finally, some early treatments coming to market, but these should have been pushed, funded and provided support much much earlier, whilst the nhs capacity and personnel should have been dealt with 21 months ago. 
 

I don’t know why some people would argue against these points, they are perfectly reasonable and it’s clear the strategy that has been implemented since March 2020 has failed and we’re pretty much where we were this time last year.  This is simply an alternative strategy that would surely have seen us in a better place right now. 

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

My point was more that, all the money that’s been wasted on the other things could and should have been better spent trying to actually treat this virus rather than run away from it (lockdowns), max out the credit card (furlough), profligate (test & trace, wasteful ppe contracts etc) and provide false hope (3 vaccines in 9 months that still don’t protect). 

A lot of money, time and resource has gone on the strategies listed above. Yes, there are now, finally, some early treatments coming to market, but these should have been pushed, funded and provided support much much earlier, whilst the nhs capacity and personnel should have been dealt with 21 months ago. 
 

I don’t know why some people would argue against these points, they are perfectly reasonable and it’s clear the strategy that has been implemented since March 2020 has failed and we’re pretty much where we were this time last year.  This is simply an alternative strategy that would surely have seen us in a better place right now. 

We don't live in a world where risk can be eliminated. What vaccines do is greatly reduce risk. Do we want, say, 75% protection or 0%?

Otherwise it's a bit like saying why bother with seat belts when some people wearing them still die in road accidents.

[Harry]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

We don't live in a world where risk can be eliminated. What vaccines do is greatly reduce risk. Do we want, say, 75% protection or 0%?

Otherwise it's a bit like saying why bother with seat belts when some people wearing them still die in road accidents.

But there have also been drugs available since early last year, way before vaccines came on stream, that could have prevented 50% to 75% of hospitalisations. 
Why didn’t we pour huge resource, research, funding into these? 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Harry

[chinapig]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

But there have also been drugs available since early last year, way before vaccines came on stream, that could have prevented 50% to 75% of hospitalisations. 
Why didn’t we pour huge resource, research, funding into these? 

Your assertion was that vaccines do not protect, which is what I responded to.

Otherwise see my previous post on anti virals. What drugs are you referring to, given the links I provided and the world wide research into possible treatments? Do you have an alternative reputable source of information I may have missed on existing effective treatments the NHS has not been prepared to use?

[BrizzleRed]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

My point was more that, all the money that’s been wasted on the other things could and should have been better spent trying to actually treat this virus rather than run away from it (lockdowns),

Most of the experts (and opposition parties)were calling for lockdowns and a few saying it should have been done sooner, so don’t know how that could have been avoided

max out the credit card (furlough), profligate

As they decided to follow the medical advice, do you really think they shouldn’t have provided furlough and thrown loads of jobs and business on the scrapheap?

(test & trace,

Our government were lambasted for not doing test and trace sooner, so are you saying this shouldn’t have actually been done?

wasteful ppe contracts etc)

So was that my imagination that care workers and the NHS staff were constantly calling for ever more PPE, even when it wasn’t seemingly available?  They were desperate times and required desperate measures.

and provide false hope (3 vaccines in 9 months that still don’t protect). 

Really???  So you don’t actually think those vaccines have saved a huge amount of lives and prevented a massive overload on the NHS?  I’d hate to think where we’d be now without them.  I think any false hope was created by the media, rather than by the government tbh.

A lot of money, time and resource has gone on the strategies listed above. Yes, there are now, finally, some early treatments coming to market, but these should have been pushed, funded and provided support much much earlier,

How do you know they weren’t? These things don’t happen overnight and the shole world are trying to catch up and get to grips with this virus. You can’t just snap your fingers and you get what you want …. Instantly

whilst the nhs capacity and personnel should have been dealt with 21 months ago. 

This was a massive fire fighting exercise and that’s why the goverment were trying to get retired NHS staff back in as support.  You can’t suddenly get loads of new staff trained up in a few weeks.  Then we had the Nightingale hospitals set up to try to increase capacity if needed.

I don’t know why some people would argue against these points, they are perfectly reasonable and it’s clear the strategy that has been implemented since March 2020 has failed and we’re pretty much where we were this time last year.  This is simply an alternative strategy that would surely have seen us in a better place right now. 

I beg to differ. We’re nowhere near where we were at the start.  We’ve got better treatments to deal with the most sick, such as better ventilation processes and medication and we’re massively reducing hospitalisation and deaths.

To be totally honest, even with the benefit of hindsight, your post appears to be criticism for criticism’s sake and bear in mind, the whole world have been learning as they go along with this.  
 

There’s no disputing we got off on a bad footing at the start and were slow off the mark, but I honestly don’t think they’ve done that badly since, all things considered.

 

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Your assertion was that vaccines do not protect, which is what I responded to.

Otherwise see my previous post on anti virals. What drugs are you referring to, given the links I provided and the world wide research into possible treatments? Do you have an alternative reputable source of information I may have missed on existing effective treatments the NHS has not been prepared to use?

I didn’t suggest vaccines don’t protect. I’ve previously said plenty of times that they do work - particularly for the most vulnerable. 
I said they have provided a false hope. Clearly they haven’t been our “route to freedom”. They work, in some people, and then they wane. Quite quickly. That’s why I said false hope. 
 

As for treatments, why was hydroxychloroquine so swiftly politicised and cast away. Same with ivermectin. 
There are plenty of high level doctors, physicians, epidemiologists, scientists out there who have been advocating the use of certain early, out-patients treatments since early 2020. For some reason no single government has been prepared to listen to their studies and help further the research. 

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week.