Should Saturdays match be played?

[Harry]

22 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

 

You are taking my comments and being very black or white with them and not filling in any blanks because you are not prepared to accept any alternative. 

Lockdowns - I didn’t say it wasn’t necessary in the initial phase. But this certainly wasn’t necessary for as long as it lasted. And then repeated. 
Furlough - I didn’t say furlough was a bad thing or unnecessary. But, as with lockdowns, this was far too long and far too costly. It shouldn’t have been necessary for nyon 18 months. 
Test & Trace - I didn’t say it was unnecessary. I said we wasted a lot of money on it. Anyone who argues against that is a hypocrite, as it’s been a huge complaint from pretty much everyone. 
PPE - I didn’t say we didn’t need PPE. I said a lot of money wasted on PPE contracts. Again, this is a pretty mainstream opinion, no doubt shared by yourself. 
Vaccines - I didn’t say they didn’t work. I said they provided false hope - see my response to China Pig above. 
Early Treatments - Yes, I realise this is a process that needs to be researched and authorised. I’d question why certain drugs that were already approved for other treatments were swiftly shut down and became taboo. 
NHS Capacity - Yes, there was the initial boost in March to bring in additional support - but what’s happened since? Derisory pay rises, no huge recruitment drive, no new hospitals, no increased icu spaces etc. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Harry

[ChippenhamRed]

Just to put to bed the nonsense suggestion that people aren’t dying of Omicron - they are. And they’re being hospitalised too.

Fortunately the proportions are lower than with previous waves, but cases weren’t doubling every two days then. So we could end up overwhelming the NHS through sheer numbers.

So ignore anyone who tries to tell you Omicron is mild, and therefore it doesn’t matter. It’s nowhere near that simple.

 

[BTRFTG]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

I didn’t suggest vaccines don’t protect. I’ve previously said plenty of times that they do work - particularly for the most vulnerable. 
I said they have provided a false hope. Clearly they haven’t been our “route to freedom”. They work, in some people, and then they wane. Quite quickly. That’s why I said false hope. 
 

As for treatments, why was hydroxychloroquine so swiftly politicised and cast away. Same with ivermectin. 
There are plenty of high level doctors, physicians, epidemiologists, scientists out there who have been advocating the use of certain early, out-patients treatments since early 2020. For some reason no single government has been prepared to listen to their studies and help further the research. 

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week. 

So you're now resorting to citing an unemployed and discredited cardiologist hosted by a shock-jock UFC commentating comedian. Strange you neglect to reference what both Senate and the US medical profession had to say about McCollough.

Look forward to what evidence you'll dredge up next - Chris Kamara having David Icke explain how purple tracksuits repel the virus?

What a bizarre existence you enjoy.

[TonyTonyTony]

31 minutes ago, Harry said:

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week. 

Citing a Covid nutter now? Have a day off. Jesus

[BrizzleRed]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

You are taking my comments and being very black or white with them and not filling in any blanks because you are not prepared to accept any alternative. 

Lockdowns - I didn’t say it wasn’t necessary in the initial phase. But this certainly wasn’t necessary for as long as it lasted. And then repeated. 
Furlough - I didn’t say furlough was a bad thing or unnecessary. But, as with lockdowns, this was far too long and far too costly. It shouldn’t have been necessary for nyon 18 months. 
Test & Trace - I didn’t say it was unnecessary. I said we wasted a lot of money on it. Anyone who argues against that is a hypocrite, as it’s been a huge complaint from pretty much everyone. 
PPE - I didn’t say we didn’t need PPE. I said a lot of money wasted on PPE contracts. Again, this is a pretty mainstream opinion, no doubt shared by yourself. 
Vaccines - I didn’t say they didn’t work. I said they provided false hope - see my response to China Pig above. 
Early Treatments - Yes, I realise this is a process that needs to be researched and authorised. I’d question why certain drugs that were already approved for other treatments were swiftly shut down and became taboo. 
NHS Capacity - Yes, there was the initial boost in March to bring in additional support - but what’s happened since? Derisory pay rises, no huge recruitment drive, no new hospitals, no increased icu spaces etc. 

Ok get your point that you weren’t actually against some of these things, but show me an urgent crisis where there hasn’t been waste.  

I still maintain your post seemed to be aimed at putting a negative slant on any point you could possibly find and I don’t think that was down to my interpretation, but there you go.

As for your comments about waste, you can’t spend weeks in a crisis too’ing and fro’ing negotiating contracts, whilst people are dying in their thousands.  That was a time to get contacts done quickly to get what was needed, so I think they can be cut some slack on those cases.  It’s also easy to be wise after the facts, especially when judging lengths of lock-downs, etc.

Fair enough on the future NHS and you can’t keep running it at 95% + capacity indefinitely and expect it to hold up, so something definitely needs to be done there for certain..

[IAmNick]

3 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

The only thing you’ve missed out on is explaining where that magic money tree forest is!

The Welsh and Scots are now saying they’d like to re-introduce furlough, even though the government hasn’t actually closed anything down.  Drakeford was on this morning saying how unfair it was that the nasty UK government is being unfair to the devolved governments by not agreeing to pay up.

Anyone would think there was a bottom-less pit filled with money you can just dip into at will and never has to be paid back.

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

[Harry]

34 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

So you're now resorting to citing an unemployed and discredited cardiologist hosted by a shock-jock UFC commentating comedian. Strange you neglect to reference what both Senate and the US medical profession had to say about McCollough.

Look forward to what evidence you'll dredge up next - Chris Kamara having David Icke explain how purple tracksuits repel the virus?

What a bizarre existence you enjoy.

 

21 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Citing a Covid nutter now? Have a day off. Jesus

Ha ha. I fully expected this sort of reply. 
McCoullough is very much more of an expert than you or I, and has certainly treated more covid patients than you or I. 
But of course, someone of such vast experience in this field and first hand experience of treating covid, who challenges the accepted narrative is “discredited” and “a nutter”. 

 

[chinapig]

54 minutes ago, Harry said:

I didn’t suggest vaccines don’t protect. I’ve previously said plenty of times that they do work - particularly for the most vulnerable. 
I said they have provided a false hope. Clearly they haven’t been our “route to freedom”. They work, in some people, and then they wane. Quite quickly. That’s why I said false hope. 
 

As for treatments, why was hydroxychloroquine so swiftly politicised and cast away. Same with ivermectin. 
There are plenty of high level doctors, physicians, epidemiologists, scientists out there who have been advocating the use of certain early, out-patients treatments since early 2020. For some reason no single government has been prepared to listen to their studies and help further the research. 

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week. 

The answers to your questions are in the second link I provided above. You can follow through to the randomised controlled trials if you want clinical evidence from a reputable source.

[Bristol Rob]

602million of the Horizon 2020 funding has so far been spent on Covid related science.

The problem is that despite it still being a pot of money UK scientists cam still (technically) access, the reality is that since Brexit that route is far more challenging as the EU and the UK are still formalising how that will work, leaving a lot of research in limbo, or with the UK only having co-author status, rather than a primary status.

[myol'man]

Back on topic

Will/should the game go ahead?

[chinapig]

30 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Citing a Covid nutter now? Have a day off. Jesus

I would be less harsh and say it's motivated reasoning, choosing to believe one source against the vast amount of evidence to the contrary because it fits with your preconceived view.

We are all prone to it which is why I research the primary reputable sources to try to make a rational, informed decision rather than an emotional one.

[BrizzleRed]

14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

Do they have a bottomless pit though?  

All us taxpayers are obviously the pit and speaking for myself, my pockets are far from bottomless!

[Globe Trotter]

8 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Back on topic

Will/should the game go ahead?

I’d say it will do as there haven’t been any reports of covid for either club as far as I’m aware and I’d imagine Huddersfield will be travelling down today.

I think the game should go ahead, the club will make the stadium as safe as it can be then it comes down to personal responsibility and circumstances for individuals as to whether they are willing to accept the risk of attending. 

[Harry]

33 minutes ago, chinapig said:

The answers to your questions are in the second link I provided above. You can follow through to the randomised controlled trials if you want clinical evidence from a reputable source.

I read the NIH version you linked. The trials were abruptly halted - why? Political decision. That’s why. 

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

I read the NIH version you linked. The trials were abruptly halted - why? Political decision. That’s why. 

I see. I won't start a tutorial on randomised controlled trials given your position so let's leave it at the saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Extraordinary_claims_require_extraordinary_evidence

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

These professionals, who know more than anyone on this forum, are succinctly summarised by Dr Peter McCollough, not only in his testimony to the US Senate, but you’ll find a fascinating 3 hour insight on Joe Rogan’s podcast last week. 

 

28 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

Ha ha. I fully expected this sort of reply. 
McCoullough is very much more of an expert than you or I, and has certainly treated more covid patients than you or I. 
But of course, someone of such vast experience in this field and first hand experience of treating covid, who challenges the accepted narrative is “discredited” and “a nutter”. 

 

I can well understand how frustrating it must be for you, when people with limited or even no medical knowledge mock your experience in this field. 

You are not alone, however, for there are several other experts who would seem to support your views:

The world-renowned cardiologist, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Professor of Evidence Based Medicine at the Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health in Salvador, Brazil and Cardiology MSc examiner at the University of Hertfordshire, U.K. He has even 'authored' a book, The 21-Day Immunity Plan, showing how to reduce vulnerability to disease, including COVID-19. 

Dr. Steven Gundry, a former cardiac surgeon, who has spent the last ten years retired from medicine and instead has spent his time writing diet books. Nevertheless, the renowned (ex) cardiac surgeon has made numerous pseudoscientific and false claims since he left the medical profession, and now earns a living  selling unproven wellness treatments and recommending the Quercetin food supplements recommended in the above-mentioned immunity plan. 

Illegitimi non carborundum!

[AppyDAZE]

44 minutes ago, myol'man said:

Back on topic

Will/should the game go ahead?

In my opinion, no. 

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, IAmNick said:

Wait, where do you think the government gets its money from?

They literally do have a bottom-less pit filled with money they can dip into at will and never have to pay back. Of course it'd be mad to do so blindly for other reasons, but they (in theory) could do if they wanted to.

Go on, from where does Government get it's money?

That you think it bottomless, try being Turkish this week, or most Central African states most weeks.

Theoretically most things are possible but money lending has never, ever been theoretical - it comes with a real world, real time price tag as those in debt understand.

[Harry]

13 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

I can well understand how frustrating it must be for you, when people with limited or even no medical knowledge mock your experience in this field. 

You are not alone, however, for there are several other experts who would seem to support your views:

The world-renowned cardiologist, Dr. Aseem Malhotra, Professor of Evidence Based Medicine at the Bahiana School of Medicine and Public Health in Salvador, Brazil and Cardiology MSc examiner at the University of Hertfordshire, U.K. He has even 'authored' a book, The 21-Day Immunity Plan, showing how to reduce vulnerability to disease, including COVID-19. 

Dr. Steven Gundry, a former cardiac surgeon, who has spent the last ten years retired from medicine and instead has spent his time writing diet books. Nevertheless, the renowned (ex) cardiac surgeon has made numerous pseudoscientific and false claims since he left the medical profession, and now earns a living  selling unproven wellness treatments and recommending the Quercetin food supplements recommended in the above-mentioned immunity plan. 

Illegitimi non carborundum!

It’s not just those 2 Phil, but that’s great, thanks for the support. Genuinely. 
There are hundreds of people much more qualified than anyone on this forum who have challenged the status quo and have been subject to ridicule. These people are quite literally putting their reputation or indeed jobs on the line. Many have been discredited, struck off, sacked, ridiculed, silenced etc. 
I’m am absolutely certain that there are thousands more who would speak out but do not do so for fear of the same treatment. 
And that’s an unqualified success in the eyes of those powerful people who want them to keep schtum. 

[plumb]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

So you're now resorting to citing an unemployed and discredited cardiologist hosted by a shock-jock UFC commentating comedian. Strange you neglect to reference what both Senate and the US medical profession had to say about McCollough.

Look forward to what evidence you'll dredge up next - Chris Kamara having David Icke explain how purple tracksuits repel the virus?

What a bizarre existence you enjoy.

Funny you mention David Icke.  The man's a fruitcake, and is arguably dangerous in some of the stuff he says.  The fact however that some of what he said back in March/April 2020 (at a point when there was less than 100 covid deaths in the UK), seems to be more accurate than what government ministers were saying just a few weeks ago which they then go back on, shows why there is so much distrust in politicians! 

Edited December 17, 2021 by bbew

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

Ha ha. I fully expected this sort of reply. 
McCoullough is very much more of an expert than you or I, and has certainly treated more covid patients than you or I. 
But of course, someone of such vast experience in this field and first hand experience of treating covid, who challenges the accepted narrative is “discredited” and “a nutter”. 

 

He hasn't practiced for some time, having been dispensed with by his associated hospital for conduct contrary to espoused medical ethics. As to being more of an expert, that depends on the subject. Fictional, delusional BS - he's top of his class in that.

As a cardiologist I doubt very much he had much dealing to Covid patients, that's how hospitals work, each to their own specialism.

[Dynamite Red]

54 minutes ago, Globe Trotter said:

I’d say it will do as there haven’t been any reports of covid for either club as far as I’m aware and I’d imagine Huddersfield will be travelling down today.

I think the game should go ahead, the club will make the stadium as safe as it can be then it comes down to personal responsibility and circumstances for individuals as to whether they are willing to accept the risk of attending. 

Agreed, shame there cannot be a bit of common sense from the authorities and allow the game to be streamed for those who feel they cannot attend. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s not just those 2 Phil, but that’s great, thanks for the support. Genuinely. 
There are hundreds of people much more qualified than anyone on this forum who have challenged the status quo and have been subject to ridicule. These people are quite literally putting their reputation or indeed jobs on the line. Many have been discredited, struck off, sacked, ridiculed, silenced etc. 
I’m am absolutely certain that there are thousands more who would speak out but do not do so for fear of the same treatment. 
And that’s an unqualified success in the eyes of those powerful people who want them to keep schtum. 

Oh Dear, Harry.

I really don't know how to say this, and Please do not be offended, but I was actually being sarcastic; taking the piss, if you like.

The two so-called experts to whom I referred are not experts at all, at least not in the field of COVID and preventative medecine therefor.

They may (or may not) have been experts in their own field, although this is disputed, but they are no more qualified than you or me to propose 'cures' for COVID.  

[Redtucks]

3 hours ago, chinapig said:

Assuming you mean the NHS app, mine shows my booster.

Apologies, so does mine now. It didn't used to, but I understand it is now part of the vaccine passport since mid November.

 

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, Redtucks said:

Apologies, so does mine now. It didn't used to, but I understand it is now part of the vaccine passport since mid November.

 

Glad to hear it. It took a few days before my booster showed up on the app too.

No apology required though!

[oldstandrobin]

6 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think the words “passed away after contracting covid-19” tells us all we need to know doesn’t it?

get your drift sarge but was wondering if he had underlying probs as if he has had two jabs and a booster and was in good health it sure puts the Sh1ts up me as only a year younger than the Old Cornishman

[Selred]

1 minute ago, oldstandrobin said:

get your drift sarge but was wondering if he had underlying probs as if he has had two jabs and a booster and was in good health it sure puts the Sh1ts up me as only a year younger than the Old Cornishman

Isn't it a crazy high start like 30% of people in the UK have underlying problems? So not sure really why it's relevant. Would they of died without COVID? No, not so soon. Therefore it doesn't matter, it still ended their life.

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Oh Dear, Harry.

I really don't know how to say this, and Please do not be offended, but I was actually being sarcastic; taking the piss, if you like.

The two so-called experts to whom I referred are not experts at all, at least not in the field of COVID and preventative medecine therefor.

They may (or may not) have been experts in their own field, although this is disputed, but they are no more qualified than you or me to propose 'cures' for COVID.  

Ooohh….what a fantastic ruse. You must be pissing your sweet little French knickers right now, yeah? 
Truth is, whether those you mentioned (and I must admit, I’d never heard of Gundry before), are experts or not, there are hundreds out there who have questioned the status quo. So you can laugh all you like (might be the stench of onions) but there are many experts who know a helluva lot more than anyone on here who have challenged the narrative and been shut down. 

27 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

He hasn't practiced for some time, having been dispensed with by his associated hospital for conduct contrary to espoused medical ethics. As to being more of an expert, that depends on the subject. Fictional, delusional BS - he's top of his class in that.

As a cardiologist I doubt very much he had much dealing to Covid patients, that's how hospitals work, each to their own specialism.

So you deny that he’s vastly more qualified that you on the subject? 

[pillred]

4 hours ago, hollydog said:

Need to be careful with that argument - (Scottish) North Sea Oil was the only thing that kept the Thatcher government solvent in the 80’s. 

 As they have been part of the UK for at least 300 years I'm not sure why they should think it was THEIR oil. It was not Scottish oil it was British oil.

Edited December 17, 2021 by pillred
punctuation

[BTRFTG]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

So you deny that he’s vastly more qualified that you on the subject? 

Which subject? BS for sure he is.

Thankfully, despite all his supposed medical expertise, he's no longer working.

Now if only there was a vaccine that helped folks differentiate fact from fiction.....

[TonyTonyTony]

Just now, BTRFTG said:

Now if only there was a vaccine that helped folks differentiate fact from fiction.....

Vaccine not required, just a brain. Even half of one

[IAmNick]

58 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Go on, from where does Government get it's money?

That you think it bottomless, try being Turkish this week, or most Central African states most weeks.

Theoretically most things are possible but money lending has never, ever been theoretical - it comes with a real world, real time price tag as those in debt understand.

The BoE, as you know - which has to create and give it as much money as it asks for, whenever it asks for it.

 

[BTRFTG]

53 minutes ago, bbew said:

Funny you mention David Icke.  The man's a fruitcake, and is arguably dangerous in some of the stuff he says.  The fact however that some of what he said back in March/April 2020 (at a point when there was less than 100 covid deaths in the UK), seems to be more accurate than what government ministers were saying just a few weeks ago which they then go back on, shows why there is so much distrust in politicians! 

Remind, what did the fruitcake day?

If to form it'll be unfalsifiable claptrap (it's the principle of falsifiablity that's key, as Popper so thoroughly explored.)

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Ooohh….what a fantastic ruse. You must be pissing your sweet little French knickers right now, yeah? 
Truth is, whether those you mentioned (and I must admit, I’d never heard of Gundry before), are experts or not, there are hundreds out there who have questioned the status quo. So you can laugh all you like (might be the stench of onions) but there are many experts who know a helluva lot more than anyone on here who have challenged the narrative and been shut down. 

I did ask that you not be offended, but I can see from your response that you are.

Not to worry, C'est la Vie, as the girls over here say when they wet their culottes - that's knickers in French.

The point of my post, however, was not to mock you or to laugh at you, per se, but to highlight simply that there are, unfortunately, a large number of quack, so-called experts out there who will use whatever media outlet is available to them in order to publicise their medical pseudo-expertise, often to sell their quack products to a gullible public. 

Equally unfortunately, however, there are a number of media outlets and presenters who are only too happy to welcome these 'experts' on to their shows because, guess what: it improves their ratings.

In normal circumstances, this wouldn't be a problem and, of course, we all had a good laugh at David Icke some years ago when he appeared on Wogan (Well, most of us) and ridiculed his nonsense.

In so far as it concerns COVID, however, this is no laughing matter, and the two 'experts' I quoted were actually using the GB News station to promote an alternative cure for COVID.

Now people will have their own views about GB News, but they provided a platform for a discredited cardiologist - a cardiologist, I repeat, and not a COVID expert - to suggest that their proposed treatment (essentially a special diet containing Quercetin food supplements) was an effective alternative to vaccination, a treatment that itself has been discredited. 

We all know that, for whatever reason, a lot of people (too many, in my opinion) are declining to be vaccinated, and I just think it is dangerous for media outlets to allow influential people, no matter what their field of expertise (if, indeed, they have any), to try and persuade members of the public to ignore real expert medical advice and to try and dissuade them from getting vaccinated, often by scaremongering. 

 

[Harry]

27 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Which subject? BS for sure he is.

Thankfully, despite all his supposed medical expertise, he's no longer working.

Now if only there was a vaccine that helped folks differentiate fact from fiction.....

I’ll take that as a yes then. He does know more about this subject than you. 
It’s ok, don’t worry. I know it’s a bit of a shock that there are people who know more about a subject than you, it doesn’t make you in any way inferior. I hope you manage to get over it. 

Edited December 17, 2021 by Harry

[chinapig]

I see the PL has arranged a meeting of managers for Monday to discuss the position. No word from the EFL yet, though they are not renowned for being quick off the mark.

I also now discover that vaccination rates in the other major European leagues is very high (over 90%, Serie A being 98%). Quite what that says about our leagues I don't know frankly.

Edited December 17, 2021 by chinapig

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I see the PL has arranged a meeting of managers for Monday to discuss the position. No word from the EFL yet, though they are not renowned for being quick off the mark.

I also now discover that vaccination rates in the other major European leagues is very high (over 90%, Serie A being 98%). Quite what that says about our leagues I don't know frankly.

Some very well educated and privileged posters on here a few pages back would have you think that our footballers are less intelligent and from a more unprivileged background than those in Europe.

[BTRFTG]

35 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

The BoE, as you know - which has to create and give it as much money as it asks for, whenever it asks for it.

 

Oh dear. 

Do you think the Old Lady has a bottomless pit in Threadneedle Street?  As it happens the BoE's function is two fold : regulatory policy and approval for issuance of banknotes, though quite a few folks issue those.

BoE doesn't 'create' money, though through issuance of notes may regulate it's worth. 

The money the Government spends beyond that recovered by The Treasury is borrowed, in exactly the same way you or I might borrow money. It attracts interest premiums and must, ultimately, be repaid. Default means lenders may not lend again in future 

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Some very well educated and privileged posters on here a few pages back would have you think that our footballers are less intelligent and from a more unprivileged background than those in Europe.

I don't subscribe to the stereotype that all footballers are thick. Some will be of course but you don't have to have academic qualifications to be intelligent.

Troy Deeney for instance had a tough upbringing but if you listen to him talk at length it is obvious he is a thoughtful, intelligent and articulate man.

[BTRFTG]

48 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’ll take that as a yes then. He does know more about this subject than you. 
 

Which subject was that?

If Covid then there are millions of folks who know the subject better than I and why wouldn't they? It's not a competition and I've no issue with that concept, that's why I trust and heed mainstream scientific advice. I also appreciate there are few who know less about the subject of covid than you but again that doesn't concern me. Living in a world where fact and fiction are indistinguishable I profess I'd find comforting or, as Neil Innes so aptly put it: "How Sweet to be an Idiot."

[BTRFTG]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Troy Deeney for instance had a tough upbringing but if you listen to him talk at length it is obvious he is a thoughtful, intelligent and articulate man.

Not sure the blokes he was convicted of lumping would agree with that......

[sh1t_ref_again]

We already have 50% of both championship & L1 games postponed and 67% of Prem, think the EFL should be looking at this and put off the rest of the games by this evening before fans start to travel. For so many games to be affected already, assume down to players infection, how can the EFL prevent much wider spread and more teams affected and more fixture problems for boxing day. 

 

Cardiff City v Derby County Match postponed - Other
Middlesbrough 12:30 AFC Bournemouth
Blackburn Rovers 15:00 Birmingham City
Blackpool 15:00 Peterborough United
Bristol City 15:00 Huddersfield Town
Coventry City v Stoke City Match postponed - Other
Millwall v Preston North End Match postponed - Other
Nottingham Forest 15:00 Hull City
Queens Park Rangers v Swansea City Match postponed - Other
Reading v Luton Town Match postponed - Other

[AppyDAZE]

6 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

We already have 50% of both championship & L1 games postponed and 67% of Prem, think the EFL should be looking at this and put off the rest of the games by this evening before fans start to travel. For so many games to be affected already, assume down to players infection, how can the EFL prevent much wider spread and more teams affected and more fixture problems for boxing day. 

 

Cardiff City v Derby County Match postponed - Other
Middlesbrough 12:30 AFC Bournemouth
Blackburn Rovers 15:00 Birmingham City
Blackpool 15:00 Peterborough United
Bristol City 15:00 Huddersfield Town
Coventry City v Stoke City Match postponed - Other
Millwall v Preston North End Match postponed - Other
Nottingham Forest 15:00 Hull City
Queens Park Rangers v Swansea City Match postponed - Other
Reading v Luton Town Match postponed - Other

Agreed 100 percent.

Although, not holding my breath, as we all know where the fans come on the list of priorities.

Edited December 17, 2021 by AppyDAZE

[Harry]

3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

We already have 50% of both championship & L1 games postponed and 67% of Prem, think the EFL should be looking at this and put off the rest of the games by this evening before fans start to travel. For so many games to be affected already, assume down to players infection, how can the EFL prevent much wider spread and more teams affected and more fixture problems for boxing day. 

 

Cardiff City v Derby County Match postponed - Other
Middlesbrough 12:30 AFC Bournemouth
Blackburn Rovers 15:00 Birmingham City
Blackpool 15:00 Peterborough United
Bristol City 15:00 Huddersfield Town
Coventry City v Stoke City Match postponed - Other
Millwall v Preston North End Match postponed - Other
Nottingham Forest 15:00 Hull City
Queens Park Rangers v Swansea City Match postponed - Other
Reading v Luton Town Match postponed - Other

If no Bristol City or Huddersfield players have tested positive then why should the game be cancelled? 
If both teams can field a squad, then let’s play cricket. 

[Bristol Rob]

7 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

We already have 50% of both championship & L1 games postponed and 67% of Prem, think the EFL should be looking at this and put off the rest of the games by this evening before fans start to travel. For so many games to be affected already, assume down to players infection, how can the EFL prevent much wider spread and more teams affected and more fixture problems for boxing day. 

 

Cardiff City v Derby County Match postponed - Other
Middlesbrough 12:30 AFC Bournemouth
Blackburn Rovers 15:00 Birmingham City
Blackpool 15:00 Peterborough United
Bristol City 15:00 Huddersfield Town
Coventry City v Stoke City Match postponed - Other
Millwall v Preston North End Match postponed - Other
Nottingham Forest 15:00 Hull City
Queens Park Rangers v Swansea City Match postponed - Other
Reading v Luton Town Match postponed - Other

Won't any games called off today also mean that Boxing Day is already in serious doubt, based on the 10 day rule.

[IAmNick]

8 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Oh dear. 

Do you think the Old Lady has a bottomless pit in Threadneedle Street?  As it happens the BoE's function is two fold : regulatory policy and approval for issuance of banknotes, though quite a few folks issue those.

BoE doesn't 'create' money, though through issuance of notes may regulate it's worth. 

The money the Government spends beyond that recovered by The Treasury is borrowed, in exactly the same way you or I might borrow money. It attracts interest premiums and must, ultimately, be repaid. Default means lenders may not lend again in future 

"Oh dear" - oh dear indeed...

You think the BoE cannot create money? So where did the £900 billion for QE the last few years come from? The money it used to buy the gilts? It created it.

The government "borrowing" from the BoE is nothing like us borrowing money, at all. The BoE cannot say no to a government request for money for a start, and the goverment's overdraft is limitless. If you borrow money under those terms please tell me where from!

If you're interested, give this a read: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

[Harry]

7 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

"Oh dear" - oh dear indeed...

You think the BoE cannot create money? So where did the £900 billion for QE the last few years come from? The money it used to buy the gilts? It created it.

The government "borrowing" from the BoE is nothing like us borrowing money, at all. The BoE cannot say no to a government request for money for a start, and the goverment's overdraft is limitless. If you borrow money under those terms please tell me where from!

If you're interested, give this a read: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

I think this BTRFTG chap needs a lesson in Fiat Currency and Fractional Reserve Lending and realise that money doesn’t actually exist and is just a bunch of numbers on a computer screen. 

[steviestevieneville]

It’s one thing people being cautious about tomorrow as it’s so near Christmas & none of us want another one ruined. 
As to should the game be played , 100% yes. Millions of us are triple jabbed now & I can’t see what else we can do tbh. There are still imo selfish morons ( the world doesn’t revolve around you )  who won’t get jabbed & if they did it would help massively . However it doesn’t stop you getting it just reduces the severity . Life has to go on as normal as possible imo. 
The new variant is alarming more contagious but it appears to be much milder in effect . I certainly don’t have the answers but as I’ve said we have to get on with it . 
I really do feel for people with underlying health issues though , it must be a nightmare. 

[BTRFTG]

33 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

"Oh dear" - oh dear indeed...

You think the BoE cannot create money? So where did the £900 billion for QE the last few years come from? The money it used to buy the gilts? It created it.

The government "borrowing" from the BoE is nothing like us borrowing money, at all. The BoE cannot say no to a government request for money for a start, and the goverment's overdraft is limitless. If you borrow money under those terms please tell me where from!

If you're interested, give this a read: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

Actually, given its new independence, the BoE can say no but it would be a very brave Governor who acted that way. The Government overdraft isn't limitless, that's why controls were introduced and if the Chancellor exceeds forecast and needs extra he has to go cap in hand explaining why. The BoE then works out how best to source funding.

Increasing currency in circulation is easy, problem being it devalues what's already circulating plus increases the cost of borrowing. Look at Turkish Lira this week. It's one of the prime reasons the UK defect increased. Ditto issuing gilts, which isn't creating money rather creating financial options. UK raises money by issuing them, not buying them. That's why economies are credit rated, why post QE the UK's was downgraded.

Edited December 17, 2021 by BTRFTG

[BTRFTG]

27 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think this BTRFTG chap needs a lesson in Fiat Currency and Fractional Reserve Lending and realise that money doesn’t actually exist and is just a bunch of numbers on a computer screen. 

'Money' and what it does sure as hell exists as that's why folks spend their lives trying to acquire it and those who don't have it spend their existences moaning about those that do. 

Half the world's populous has never seen a computer screen, but ask them what money is and they know.

[BTRFTG]

23 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s one thing people being cautious about tomorrow as it’s so near Christmas & none of us want another one ruined. 
As to should the game be played , 100% yes. Millions of us are triple jabbed now & I can’t see what else we can do tbh. There are still imo selfish morons ( the world doesn’t revolve around you )  who won’t get jabbed & if they did it would help massively . However it doesn’t stop you getting it just reduces the severity . Life has to go on as normal as possible imo. 
The new variant is alarming more contagious but it appears to be much milder in effect . I certainly don’t have the answers but as I’ve said we have to get on with it . 
I really do feel for people with underlying health issues though , it must be a nightmare. 

It's about risk for sure but in a civilized society it's sometimes about deferring personal expectation for the common good. What else can we do? Well we can try and limit the damage this new variant might reek and as guidance shows that's simply a matter of numbers.

With R around 5 that's over 3m infected at Xmas; if 3% need assistance that's 90k, that's 65% of all hospital beds and there aren't that many acute beds in the UK. It's simply the quantum.

[Harry]

28 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

'Money' and what it does sure as hell exists as that's why folks spend their lives trying to acquire it and those who don't have it spend their existences moaning about those that do. 

Half the world's populous has never seen a computer screen, but ask them what money is and they know.

Currency exists for sure. But money really doesn’t exist in real terms. 
If the banks called in all the debt that they hold, there wouldn’t actually be enough ‘actual’ currency in the world to pay it back. 
It’s all borrowed and doesn’t actually exist. It’s huge huge numbers on a screen. 

[Mr Chappers]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

We already have 50% of both championship & L1 games postponed and 67% of Prem, think the EFL should be looking at this and put off the rest of the games by this evening before fans start to travel. For so many games to be affected already, assume down to players infection, how can the EFL prevent much wider spread and more teams affected and more fixture problems for boxing day. 

 

Cardiff City v Derby County Match postponed - Other
Middlesbrough 12:30 AFC Bournemouth
Blackburn Rovers 15:00 Birmingham City
Blackpool 15:00 Peterborough United
Bristol City 15:00 Huddersfield Town
Coventry City v Stoke City Match postponed - Other
Millwall v Preston North End Match postponed - Other
Nottingham Forest 15:00 Hull City
Queens Park Rangers v Swansea City Match postponed - Other
Reading v Luton Town Match postponed - Other

Agree totally. Attendances will be low, and it just seems crazy to take risks now. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

It's about risk for sure but in a civilized society it's sometimes about deferring personal expectation for the common good. What else can we do? Well we can try and limit the damage this new variant might reek and as guidance shows that's simply a matter of numbers.

With R around 5 that's over 3m infected at Xmas; if 3% need assistance that's 90k, that's 65% of all hospital beds and there aren't that many acute beds in the UK. It's simply the quantum.

The latest data coming out of South Africa who are a few weeks advanced is that luckily only 1.7% of cases needed assistance . Also our vaccination % is much higher than SA . 
Let’s hope we don’t get a variant as contagious as this one but as dangerous as delta

[underover]

3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

It’s one thing people being cautious about tomorrow as it’s so near Christmas & none of us want another one ruined. 
As to should the game be played , 100% yes. Millions of us are triple jabbed now & I can’t see what else we can do tbh. There are still imo selfish morons ( the world doesn’t revolve around you )  who won’t get jabbed & if they did it would help massively . However it doesn’t stop you getting it just reduces the severity . Life has to go on as normal as possible imo. 
The new variant is alarming more contagious but it appears to be much milder in effect . I certainly don’t have the answers but as I’ve said we have to get on with it . 
I really do feel for people with underlying health issues though , it must be a nightmare. 

A mates dad works at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital and has told us that all of the covid patients in intensive care are unvaccinated, believe there’s a BBC article that says 80% hospitalisations/ITU admissions (I can’t quite remember) are not at all vaccinated, yet people are still sharing their conspiracy nonsense about the vaccine & claiming they’ve caused a communist take over 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, underover said:

A mates dad works at Gloucestershire Royal Hospital and has told us that all of the covid patients in intensive care are unvaccinated, believe there’s a BBC article that says 80% hospitalisations/ITU admissions (I can’t quite remember) are not at all vaccinated, yet people are still sharing their conspiracy nonsense about the vaccine & claiming they’ve caused a communist take over 

Saw a good tweet yesterday which showed people hospitalised per 100k broken down by vaccinated v unvaccinated and by age backet….rather than do it on actual numbers….as the number of vaccinated v unvaccinated will skew the picture.

In the upper age groups it was 3 or 4 (unvaccinated) to 1 (vaccinated).

Deaths follow a similar trend.

At a very simplistic level to the layman, I’d suggest vaccinations is having a positive effect.

 

[steviestevieneville]

33 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Saw a good tweet yesterday which showed people hospitalised per 100k broken down by vaccinated v unvaccinated and by age backet….rather than do it on actual numbers….as the number of vaccinated v unvaccinated will skew the picture.

In the upper age groups it was 3 or 4 (unvaccinated) to 1 (vaccinated).

Deaths follow a similar trend.

At a very simplistic level to the layman, I’d suggest vaccinations is having a positive effect.

 

You can’t come up  with facts Dave . For the anti vaccers , We all know the major super powers created it to throw the world into global financial turmoil & to wipe out the elderly . The earth is flat , Elvis  lives on the moon & the matrix was a documentary not a sci fi film .

Oh & joey Barton is a upstanding pillar of the community . 

[sh1t_ref_again]

Omicron has now replaced delta as the dominant type of Covid in England as wellbas Scotland. Estimates for the South West are slightly lower at 48%