Todays gate

[DT The Optimist]

Yes. Announced that attendance 18k and something.  Yes, I know they count season tickets holders who do not show, but honestly how many bums on seat in todays match.  

I thought the concourses were pretty empty, the South stand certainly emptier than normal. Great gaps around me in the Dolman. So quiet I wondered over to the Lansdown second half as that was also no where near line it normally is. Took a seat not far from dug out. Loads room. 
Bums on seats today. 12k perhaps.  Covid impact ?  Wish they would tell us how many actually come through the turnstiles today

Edited December 18, 2021 by DT The Optimist

[Clevedon Red]

Loads of empty seats all round the ground. No more than 13k in the ground I reckon.

[DT The Optimist]

3 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

Loads of empty seats all round the ground. No more than 13k in the ground I reckon.

Agree with you. Why oh why do we have this nonsense of stating an attendance which includes no shows. If that is the case. Perhaps the 12000 season tickets holders did show and there were no pay on the day?    Wonder if that is the same with all clubs doing this. Cannot see what’s gained by doing this 

[sglosbcfc]

Looking at other forums Covid had a huge impact across the country. Many fans reporting 'gates' of about 60% of tickets actually sold.

[xerox6060]

What an embarrassing announcement,  why say that when there was obviously only 10  12k there...

[GrahamC]

2 minutes ago, xerox6060 said:

What an embarrassing announcement,  why say that when there was obviously only 10  12k there...

Because those people have paid to attend.

Personally I doubt it was even 10k actually there.

[Out of his pie crust]

I counted 12349

[Shaun Taylor]

I wonder how clubs would fair if there was a genuine fire drill as you would think knowing how many were in the stadium would be critical 

[weepywall]

33 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Agree with you. Why oh why do we have this nonsense of stating an attendance which includes no shows. If that is the case. Perhaps the 12000 season tickets holders did show and there were no pay on the day?    Wonder if that is the same with all clubs doing this. Cannot see what’s gained by doing this 

Fairly sure all clubs do it now, think it's to do with tax purposes as in they have to announce how many tickets have been sold. I have seen actual attendance figures  at AG and I'm sure in normal circumstances it's about 1500 less than ticket sales on average, today wasn't normal circumstances to be fair. 

[BTRFTG]

6 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I wonder how clubs would fair if there was a genuine fire drill as you would think knowing how many were in the stadium would be critical 

There are multiple routes to final evacuation points and with many of them external there aren't short term, critical evacuation times required.

In which case the FRA dictates there's little risk in knowing who is where? In the stands Fire Marshalls will move top to bottom to establish nobody is in occupation but other than than how many or who is irrelevant.

[Shaun Taylor]

2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

There are multiple routes to final evacuation points and with many of them external there aren't short term, critical evacuation times required.

In which case the FRA dictates there's little risk in knowing who is where? In the stands Fire Marshalls will move top to bottom to establish nobody is in occupation but other than than how many or who is irrelevant.

Thanks for the insight as you hope that clubs have everyting covered but very rarely hear about what procedures are in place.

[Sleepy1968]

45 minutes ago, DT The Optimist said:

Agree with you. Why oh why do we have this nonsense of stating an attendance which includes no shows. If that is the case. Perhaps the 12000 season tickets holders did show and there were no pay on the day?    Wonder if that is the same with all clubs doing this. Cannot see what’s gained by doing this 

Yes and it comes up every season. This is a EFL edict and whilst I disagree with it, it certainly makes sense from a marketing angle.

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

Thanks for the insight as you hope that clubs have everyting covered but very rarely hear about what procedures are in place.

It's a fairly standard strategy for large buildings with unknown or irregular footfall.

I used to be responsible for dozens of buildings, many highly secure, but you still adopt a similar protocol given, though they shouldn't, punters will tailgate and do things they should not. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by BTRFTG

[Snufflelufagus]

26 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I wonder how clubs would fair if there was a genuine fire drill as you would think knowing how many were in the stadium would be critical 

It's not like school where there take an attendance register is it

[Davefevs]

What was the tannoy announced attendance today?

[weepywall]

Just now, Snufflelufagus said:

It's not like school where there take an attendance register is it

Think they do at the Memorial and then double it !

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What was the tannoy announced attendance today?

18k +

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, DT The Optimist said:

Yes. Announced that attendance 18k and something.  Yes, I know they count season tickets holders who do not show, but honestly how many bums on seat in todays match.  

I thought the concourses were pretty empty, the South stand certainly emptier than normal. Great gaps around me in the Dolman. So quiet I wondered over to the Lansdown second half as that was also no where near line it normally is. Took a seat not far from dug out. Loads room. 
Bums on seats today. 12k perhaps.  Covid impact ?  Wish they would tell us how many actually come through the turnstiles today

I did the same although a bit further along level with the 18 yard line. 

[Sleepy1968]

11 minutes ago, weepywall said:

Fairly sure all clubs do it now, think it's to do with tax purposes as in they have to announce how many tickets have been sold. I have seen actual attendance figures  at AG and I'm sure in normal circumstances it's about 1500 less than ticket sales on average, today wasn't normal circumstances to be fair. 

The Revenue you report is always going to be on sales, the taxman doesn't give two hoots about how many people turn up and whether you report that as your attendance to the media rather than the sales figure. What sounds best to you  - 23 games pitch-side advertising with 14k or 20k eyeballs on. Makes marketing sense and is per EFL requirements. Probably 10+ years since we've been able to reply on the attendance figure for actual attendees. For authenticity it might be more useful if they referred to figures as 'tickets sold'.

[Dr Balls]

There were huge gaps across all of the stands today. At most 12k but more likely 10k actually in the ground.

 

[Harry]

If we have around 14k season ticket holders, with around 500 away fans, that means, are you seriously telling me that over 3.5k paid on the day!!! 

[RedLionLad]

45 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I wonder how clubs would fair if there was a genuine fire drill as you would think knowing how many were in the stadium would be critical 

If there was a fire over at the tented village the firemen would outnumber the crowd

[Red Army 87]

4 minutes ago, Harry said:

If we have around 14k season ticket holders, with around 500 away fans, that means, are you seriously telling me that over 3.5k paid on the day!!! 

No - official attendance is different to actual attendance 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Red Army 87

[DT The Optimist]

Todays really low turn out can most likely be attributed to concerns for Covid infections and not wanting to put Xmas plans at risk ?  
 
Who knows, certainly not last minute shoppers staying away.  My other half works in retail, very quiet.   reported quiet at the Mall and Cabot. 
move onto the Xmas fixtures. Traditionally big gates as people get out. We have QPR  at home between Boxing Day and New Year.  Depending on what happens hopefully bigger  decent gates. Getting in was a breeze showing your covid status. 

[Mr Chappers]

54 minutes ago, Out of his pie crust said:

I counted 12349

I only counted 12,340, must have been a few gone for a wee when I counted 

[Shaun Taylor]

27 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

It's not like school where there take an attendance register is it

No but if there was a fire traceability becomes more of an issue 

[A Horse With No Name]

57 minutes ago, Shaun Taylor said:

I wonder how clubs would fair if there was a genuine fire drill as you would think knowing how many were in the stadium would be critical 

Obviously they do know.

[Ivorguy]

29 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

It's not like school where there take an attendance register is it

They do at Worthing in Isthmian Premier take an accurate account in derby games to ensure numbers are within those legally allowed.  Not rocket science just another aspect of modern league football that they CHOOSE to give inflated numbers

[BTRFTG]

Just now, Ivorguy said:

They do at Worthing in Isthmian Premier take an accurate account in derby games to ensure numbers are within those legally allowed.  Not rocket science just another aspect of modern league football that they CHOOSE to give inflated numbers

Like all clubs City do that, not we'd ever get near the licenced approvals.

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Yes. Announced that attendance 18k and something.  Yes, I know they count season tickets holders who do not show, but honestly how many bums on seat in todays match.  

I thought the concourses were pretty empty, the South stand certainly emptier than normal. Great gaps around me in the Dolman. So quiet I wondered over to the Lansdown second half as that was also no where near line it normally is. Took a seat not far from dug out. Loads room. 
Bums on seats today. 12k perhaps.  Covid impact ?  Wish they would tell us how many actually come through the turnstiles today

Bought a season ticket this year….been about 4 times 

absolutely no interest in watching that squad of players anymore.  It really is one of the worst ‘teams’ I’ve seen in my 26 years of having a season ticket holder 

Covid will be a tiny part. 90% of the missing supporters is because we have a squad of wasters, being managed by a manager who is clearly passed his sell by date 

Everything about the club and match day experience these days is dire 

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, sglosbcfc said:

Looking at other forums Covid had a huge impact across the country. Many fans reporting 'gates' of about 60% of tickets actually sold.

Covid will be a small part 

put it this way….if the football was better and we were top 4, we would have had a lot more there today 

People are staying away mainly because they have had enough. It’s been 4 years of absolute dross 

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

**** me!

People used to moan back in the early 90s when attendances were announced as clearly lower than they were.

Now people are questioning why Season Ticket holders who have paid for a ticket to the game have been included in the attendance?

Who genuinely gives a shit and why?

Edited December 18, 2021 by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan

[Street red]

1 hour ago, Out of his pie crust said:

I counted 12349

More fun than watching the game

[Pezo]

13 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Covid will be a small part 

put it this way….if the football was better and we were top 4, we would have had a lot more there today 

People are staying away mainly because they have had enough. It’s been 4 years of absolute dross 

It’s been worse and people still attend.

I know of 3 season ticket holders that didn’t go today - none was because of the “absolute dross” as they have attended most games this season already knowing that most games will be awful, all were because of COVID for one reason or another (all triple vaccinated before we go down that rabbit hole).

[Pezo]

1 minute ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said:

**** me!

People used to moan back in the early 90s when attendances were announced as clearly lower than they were.

Now people are moaning because Season Ticket holders who have paid for a ticket to the game have been included in the attendance.

Who genuinely gives a shit, and why?

Curiosity, see what can be deduced for the numbers (how many are staying away because of COVID) etc.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

13 k max today I would of thought 

[Oh Louie louie]

Credit to steve from me for once.

Les kew would hide, 6000 whenever he could.

[Mad Cyril]

Well all the numpties who normally shine their phone torches toward the end of the game didn't make it today.

That's 200 missing for starters.

[ChippenhamRed]

8 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Covid will be a small part 

put it this way….if the football was better and we were top 4, we would have had a lot more there today 

People are staying away mainly because they have had enough. It’s been 4 years of absolute dross 

Just saying something doesn’t make it true. Covid is not a “small part”. A sudden, dramatic fall in attendance isn’t explained merely by poor form - we’ve been average at home for years.

Look at the “Not going Saturday” thread for a much more obvious explanation. There are numerous posts from ordinarily loyal season ticket holders explaining that they chose not to attend because of extremely high Covid rates and the potential to have to isolate over Christmas.

Expect a recovery in attendance after Christmas (assuming we’re still allowed to go) once there is less at stake. I didn’t go yesterday because we have Christmas plans we don’t want ruined, but have tickets for Millwall and fully intend to be there.

[Laner]

So technically when games were played behind closed doors in the first lockdown our attendance would still have been 10/12k (remaining season ticket sales)? Despite the fact the stadium would have been empty.

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just now, Laner said:

So technically when games were played behind closed doors in the first lockdown our attendance would still have been 10/12k (remaining season ticket sales)? Despite the fact the stadium would have been empty.

They refunded STHs so no I guess?

Or have I been whoooshed!

[Laner]

2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

They refunded STHs so no I guess?

Or have I been whoooshed!

Not all were refunded. 

[1960maaan]

So if I understand this right.  

We are trying to pull a fast one, by announcing more people in/tickets sold , than we actually have ? I know in times gone by there was some "poetic Licence" with figures. Announce less than were there, all cash, so hide it and no Tax etc. More money for the Club. I'm not following the idea we say there are more there than we sold though, with everything involved I'm not sure this scam is a winner.

I wonder if they actually bother keeping the data of 'bums on seats' . The figure they need for accounts is tickets sold, so I guess this is the one they go with.

[exAtyeoMax]

9 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

Covid will be a small part 

put it this way….if the football was better and we were top 4, we would have had a lot more there today 

People are staying away mainly because they have had enough. It’s been 4 years of absolute dross 

Not for me, I didn’t go purely because it of covid. I didn’t want to increase the risk of having to self isolate over Christmas.

I still wouldn’t have gone even if we were top of the league

[Calculus]

It used to be that when attendances were announced some would reckon that there were more in the ground and that it was a tax fiddle. Now we announce the number that had actually paid to be there that's a problem as well. It must be as frustrating as hell running this football club.

[Lanterne Rouge]

There must be an `actual` figure recorded somewhere if for no other reason than it would be needed afterwards should there be a major incident like a fire or a terrorist attack.

[weepywall]

5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

There must be an `actual` figure recorded somewhere if for no other reason than it would be needed afterwards should there be a major incident like a fire or a terrorist attack.

They do keep an 'actual' figure, they released them the year of the cup run, not sure what the reason was but think it was something to do with parking issues with BCC.

[cidered abroad]

13 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Agree with you. Why oh why do we have this nonsense of stating an attendance which includes no shows. If that is the case. Perhaps the 12000 season tickets holders did show and there were no pay on the day?    Wonder if that is the same with all clubs doing this. Cannot see what’s gained by doing this 

The club are able to calculate the actual attendance via the turnstile scanners.

However, because of VAT, HMRC and probably police, they also know how many bought match day tickets and the total number of season tickets. This is the announced attendance figure as whether a paid for ticket is used or not is irrelevant.

I imagine that policing and stewarding numbers are based on anticipated attendance.

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by cidered abroad

[Lanterne Rouge]

26 minutes ago, weepywall said:

They do keep an 'actual' figure, they released them the year of the cup run, not sure what the reason was but think it was something to do with parking issues with BCC.

Ah, yes. I do remember that. We had to show that the attendance had not exceeded a certain figure for a certain number of consecutive games otherwise we would have had to put some sort of transport plan in place.

[ralphindevon]

40 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

There must be an `actual` figure recorded somewhere if for no other reason than it would be needed afterwards should there be a major incident like a fire or a terrorist attack.

Yes they definitely know the correct figure.

As I’ve mentioned before there was a snow effected game that was was a few thousand less than the figure announced on the day. About the time of the beast from the east I think. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Just now, ralphindevon said:

Yes they definitely know the correct figure.

As I’ve mentioned before there was a snow effected game that was was a few thousand less than the figure announced on the day. About the time of the beast from the east I think. 

Tell me about it! Snowed in for days down here on the moor!

[weepywall]

5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Ah, yes. I do remember that. We had to show that the attendance had not exceeded a certain figure for a certain number of consecutive games otherwise we would have had to put some sort of transport plan in place.

That's it ! Most games were showing a big difference in announced attendance and actual attendance, Sheffield Wednesday game had an announced crowd of 22k but there were only 15k in the ground although I think that was due to heavy snow in the area. I'm sure I have read somewhere that between 10 and 20% of season ticket holders can be expected not to attend any given game.

[ralphindevon]

3 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Tell me about it! Snowed in for days down here on the moor!

I couldn’t get out of Teignmouth and we never get snow……….supposedly.

[95red]

Fair play who attended  I did also, bedwetters stayed away !!!

[ChippenhamRed]

1 minute ago, 95red said:

Fair play who attended  I did also, bedwetters stayed away !!!

Oooh so edgy, well done you.

[exAtyeoMax]

10 minutes ago, 95red said:

Fair play who attended  I did also, bedwetters stayed away !!!

Ha ha ha 

good job I’ve got a waterproof mattress protector.

[95red]

2 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Ha ha ha 

good job I’ve got a waterproof mattress protector.

Yeh probably  have ,nice to see 12000 plus getting on with their life's and not being frightened  of a cold  

[nickolas]

13 hours ago, Out of his pie crust said:

I counted 12349

You mustve been in the toilet when i counted my 12,348 then.

[exAtyeoMax]

11 minutes ago, 95red said:

Yeh probably  have ,nice to see 12000 plus getting on with their life's and not being frightened  of a cold  

I don't think you quite understand the concept of self isolating. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

34 minutes ago, weepywall said:

That's it ! Most games were showing a big difference in announced attendance and actual attendance, Sheffield Wednesday game had an announced crowd of 22k but there were only 15k in the ground although I think that was due to heavy snow in the area. I'm sure I have read somewhere that between 10 and 20% of season ticket holders can be expected not to attend any given game.

It is something like that percentage and the club must take it into account when getting stewards in, catering supplies etc. They`d be daft to assume 100% st attendance and end up over providing.

[ChippenhamRed]

34 minutes ago, 95red said:

Yeh probably  have ,nice to see 12000 plus getting on with their life's and not being frightened  of a cold  

Suggest you try Facebook mate, they love this sort of brainless crap over there.

[marmite]

1 hour ago, 95red said:

Yeh probably  have ,nice to see 12000 plus getting on with their life's and not being frightened  of a cold  

Take it you've not lost a loved one to this virus then? Why weren't you in town with your antivaxer mates ?

[95red]

24 minutes ago, marmite said:

Take it you've not lost a loved one to this virus then? Why weren't you in town with your antivaxer mates ?

Idiot had my jabs  and had it just ain't running  scared go hide back under the stairs 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

So if I understand this right.  

We are trying to pull a fast one, by announcing more people in/tickets sold , than we actually have ? I know in times gone by there was some "poetic Licence" with figures. Announce less than were there, all cash, so hide it and no Tax etc. More money for the Club. I'm not following the idea we say there are more there than we sold though, with everything involved I'm not sure this scam is a winner.

I wonder if they actually bother keeping the data of 'bums on seats' . The figure they need for accounts is tickets sold, so I guess this is the one they go with.

My understanding is that they would have both sets of figures internally.

The claimed attendance of 18k (I think it was) is because as with all clubs, season ticket holders or tickets sold are counted as attending regardless but the club, indeed any club will have both sets.

Probably more like 12k yesterday? Again though tickets sold will often outstretch those actually in the ground.

As for any breakdown I certainly think that the Dolman was fullest as a % yesterday and perhaps although I don't know for sure, in absolute terms.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, in terms of the self-isolation over Christmas bit..

Surely you only know you need to self-isolate if you get pinged, Test and traced whatever. Symptoms too but otoh the symptoms are similar to a cold in a range of cases.

If someone doesn't have the NHS App ie the pingdemic one, and they don't get ill then the chances are that a trip to the football won't result in having to self-isolate over Christmas? Of course it depends on their testing requirements as well.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My understanding is that they would have both sets of figures internally.

Yep, they will know how many tickets sold and how many have passed through the barriers.