City release accounts - Ouch!

[Major Isewater]

24 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Young Jon just doesn't have the where with all to see through a snake like Ashton

I thought we’d bought in a Chinese investor for a minute there. 
 

[Olé]

45 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

I know nothing about this sort of thing but isn’t this, between Christmas and new year, an odd time to announce this?

Or is it done just before the transfer window on purpose?

Our accounts for 20/21 are due by the end of February 2022 so they weren't needed now. You could certainly argue we are using this to soften the expectation in the transfer window. Last year we filed two months later on February 1st, but prior to that we filed fairly regularly in November (a month earlier than this) so I don't think it's too unusual .

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-announce-202021-accounts/
 

The annual reminder of why we can’t just buy a proven 20 goal a season striker and why Steve Lansdown is a blessing rather than a curse. 

The annual reminder of how utterly overpaid footballers are

[Sleepy1968]

37 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

You don’t know where we’d be without them. How do you know we wouldn’t be better off. The tripling of the wage bill is his fault . Lack of a recruitment plan & letting Ashton ride roughshod for years. Obviously covid has had a big impact but if he’d had a sustainable recruitment/football plan in place we’d be in a better place. 

Well said, and my thoughts exactly.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

its only a matter of time before the game financially implodes

[Northern Red]

Ouch. We knew it was coming but it's still an eye watering amount.

The best bit is that we'll still get at least half a dozen threads over the next month or so whining that we aren't spending any money.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Northern Red

[Sleepy1968]

2 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

its only a matter of time before the game financially implodes

We've been saying that for a good few years now, but it already has hasn't it? Except for some reason no-one is admitting it: Instead they're all 'lets all vote against wage caps' - lets not try to contol talent costs. They've wished all this on themselves.

[Bristol Rob]

Isn't Jon supposed to be the eyes and ears of the family as far as the day to day running of the club is concerned?

Bet the conversation over the turkey was different this year. 

[North London Red]

42 minutes ago, RonWalker said:

This balance sheet was to the end of May - they first went on sale on April 12 so that's 6-7 weeks' worth of income for this year's tickets, and whatever amount the club kept from fans' payments last season as you mention. Not a bad tally given the state of the pandemic at the time and the short time period.

The 6-7 weeks’ worth of season ticket sales for 2021-22 which were made before 31 May will only be recognised as P&L revenue in the accounts for the year ended 31 May 2022. None of it will be recognised in the P&L in the year to 31 May 2021.

The accounting entries for these sales in the 2021 accounts will be debit cash, credit deferred revenue (as Ole noted in a later post).

Then in the 2022 accounts the accounting entries will be debit deferred revenue, credit P&L revenue, to match the ticket revenue to the period which it relates to. 

[glynriley]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Isn't Jon supposed to be the eyes and ears of the family as far as the day to day running of the club is concerned?

Bet the conversation over the turkey was different this year. 

[Kingswood Robin]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

The best bit is that we'll still get at least half a dozen threads over the next month or so whining that we aren't spending any money.

I know some people think there's a magic money tree (wish I could find one) and that we should spend, spend, spend. The biggest complaint I've seen for many years now is not that we aren't spending, it's that we're not spending wisely. As long as there's room for improvement, I think it's a fair point. 

[myol'man]

Paying players too much to come here, if the South West in general and Bristol in particular is such a sh!t hole that we have to offer players over the odds to come here then **** um, forget the Premier League dream, buy promising players from lower leagues, take the hit of relegation and begin the ten year cycle again. 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Ouch. Otoh broadly in line with my expectations/fears.

Not read anything but the main article yet, certainly not read them in full.

@billywedlock mentioned something about future trading talks with the EFL. That sounds about right, we're in that zone clearly between upper and lower loss limits- future trading talks etc are whereby club and EFL talk, club submit what they forecast to be their Projected Accounts and FFP losses for the following couple of seasons. ie 2021/22 and 2022/23. Quite a few clubs will probably be in such talks with the EFL, the basic objective is that 3 year FFP losses are kept to no more than £39m at any given time.

Covered by Future Financial Information regs that I've mentioned on occasion.

I digress, FFP wise:

1) I think we're fine to 2020/21.

2) To 2021/22 as well.

3) As for the losses in 2019/20 and 2020/21, these are added together and halved.

4) A very quick scan of the press release suggests £14m in losses attributable to Covid? You can knock that off the losses.

5) I believe our typical FFP costs to be £4-5m per season. Obviously subtract those from the headline losses.

As for when we can spend with relative freedom again at this level? Barring big sales or benefitting from major sell on clauses, it would be IMO 2023/24.

[Red-Robbo]

39 minutes ago, Malago said:

And having no income from fans for 12 months had nothing to do with the loss?

Season ticket refunds and lack of matchday ticket sales only account for £3m of the loss. Obviously, there will be non-ticket revenue missing as well, but at the end of the day we'd have still made a thumping loss had the ground been open.

 

33 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Staff costs up by millions during a pandemic….and some people still think we are well run!

Indeed. I wonder why furloughing didn't offset that in some cases?  Bristol Sport was supposed to share the off-pitch admin burden and lower such costs. Instead they seem to be going through the roof. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/city-announce-202021-accounts/
 

The annual reminder of why we can’t just buy a proven 20 goal a season striker and why Steve Lansdown is a blessing rather than a curse. 

He signs it all off.  He’s culpable too….unless he had the wool pulled completely over his eyes by Ashton, in which case, that’s just as bad.

He’s done good stuff in propping up losses and building the ground and training facility, but he’s allowed reckless spending.  That imho does not let him off Scott-free!

[Bristol Rob]

Okay, a few reasons to be slightly optimistic.

The academy are starting to produce players who look fairly comfortable playing in the Championship and whilst there is no way we wouldn't have to listen to offers for them if someone comes calling, they have been developed by the club and will be on reasonably low wages.

The players who are here just for the coin are easily identified and should they get close to 1st team action, they'll be under no illusion that their effort is going to be under scrutiny, so they might choose to run that extra yard to avoid grief.

As supporters we have to accept that we are skint and we won't be spending money any time soon.

Who is responsible for these numbers? Anyone who feels obliged to wear a suit on a match day has to take some of the blame, and the further up the food chain you go, the more accountable they are.

I just hope that fans rally and let SL know how much him and his generosity is appreciated.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

I know nothing about this sort of thing but isn’t this, between Christmas and new year, an odd time to announce this?

Or is it done just before the transfer window on purpose?

Accounts were signed off last Monday.

I had mixed views on whether we’d announce pre-January window.

1. Manage fans expectations versus

2. Show your hand early when negotiating with clubs you want to buy from, I.e. we’ve got no money, versys

3. Show your hand early to clubs looking to pillage our players

Not sure how this will play out Ralph.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

Many will be far worse.

Let’s see….not convinced by that.  Ours are down to a ridiculously high cost base.  There are a few that might be in the same boat, but FFP-wise many will be fine, because they have a cost base 40-60% of ours and it’s slightly easier to absorb.

Thats my guess anyway.  I’m not including Reading and Derby in that though.

[Phileas Fogg]

52 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Ashton is undoubtedly the main antagonist in this piece, but my word the degree to which Johnson flies under the radar on here is quite remarkable. 

It seems everything that was good was Johnson, everything that was bad was Ashton. 

I don't think that's true at all really. Both of their legacies get an awful lot of critique on here, and rightly so. Ashton is obviously seen as the main villain but Johnson gets quite a lot of stick too.

Wait until Sunderland hit poor form - you can guarantee that thread about Sunderland fans' comments will be resurrected on page 1 of this forum again (quite possibly by your good self!)

[O'Garlandinho]

I notice that Mark Ashton isn’t listed as a director in the accounts even though he was during this accounting period. It’s normal practice to still list him in the accounts but with his resignation date in brackets (if occurred before accounts have been released). Presumably they didn’t want to disclose his remuneration in note 7, for us all to baffle at!

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, BLRed said:

Now we have the bottom line figure, would be good to know from those that are good at working things out like @Davefevs as to where we stand in the market and what we have to play with.

I assume based on this figure, we are solely reliant on loans or getting rid of players not in the bus before we can spend.

This situation is certainly testing our academy but in the long term, can only be a good thing towards being self sufficient whilst getting back to realising profit from said players when they become in demand.

Eff all.

Seriously though, I’ve only looked at the high-level numbers, we are ok FFP-wise until the end of this season.  Next season it gets hairy, so this window and the summer window are hugely constrained by shifting players off the wage bill.

[Loco Rojo]

23 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Ouch. We knew it was coming but it's still an eye watering amount.

The best bit is that we'll still get at least half a dozen threads over the next month or so whining that we aren't spending any money.

100% agree. 

@ the Mods can we pin this thread to the top of the Forum so we can refer people to it over January?

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Eff all.

Seriously though, I’ve only looked at the high-level numbers, we are ok FFP-wise until the end of this season.  Next season it gets hairy, so this window and the summer window are hugely constrained by shifting players off the wage bill.

Wasn't there speculation (before Covid) that perhaps this season or maybe last we'd have been able to 'go for it' a bit FFP wise? 

[View from the Dolman]

3 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

I notice that Mark Ashton isn’t listed as a director in the accounts even though he was during this accounting period. It’s normal practice to still list him in the accounts but with his resignation date in brackets (if occurred before accounts have been released). Presumably they didn’t want to disclose his remuneration in note 7, for us all to baffle at!

He was never a director of Bristol City Holdings Ltd, only Bristol City Football Club Ltd. 

[Davefevs]

55 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Perhaps the owner might take a moment to spell this out in plain English to his supporters to take a little heat off his manager? 

That is what I want….I don’t want to hear the reasons, I want to hear the impacts / constraints going forward. With no spin!

[Kodjias Wrist]

Geeze wasn't expecting it to be quite so bad. Reducing the wage bill is obviously very important over the next two windows. Whos contract do we have running down? Palmer ? Wells?

[Bristol Rob]

Wonder if Bournemouth have been on the phone yet to 'offer to buy out' any sell on clause clauses in the contract the agreed for Kelly?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Won't seem to download on my phone and can look in full later but does anyone know if there are any unusual items buried in the cost base?

Big impairment in Player Registrations, that kinda thing.

Further, also bear in mind that the sacking of LJ, Mcallister and Holden all fell in 2020/21 reporting period. These are non recurring costs that shouldn't be repeated although Downing and Simpson were sacked this season? Perhaps a bit less though.

[ashton_fan]

Looks like we'll have to consider offers for the likes of Bentley, Semenyo, Massengo etc to avoid penalties in the next couple of years which means relegation battles and forget about promotion for a while. Given our wage bill is only around mid-table for this league other clubs must be faced with similar dilemma.

[Andy082005]

Rovers fans Wan-king themselves into an early grave on social media at the thought of us having points deducted 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Andy082005

[petehinton]

3 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Geeze wasn't expecting it to be quite so bad. Reducing the wage bill is obviously very important over the next two windows. Whos contract do we have running down? Palmer ? Wells?

Hardly any one. O’Dowda probably the only one on decent money. And watch him get an extension…

[Kingswood Robin]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Okay, a few reasons to be slightly optimistic.

The academy are starting to produce players who look fairly comfortable playing in the Championship and whilst there is no way we wouldn't have to listen to offers for them if someone comes calling, they have been developed by the club and will be on reasonably low wages.

The players who are here just for the coin are easily identified and should they get close to 1st team action, they'll be under no illusion that their effort is going to be under scrutiny, so they might choose to run that extra yard to avoid grief.

As supporters we have to accept that we are skint and we won't be spending money any time soon.

Who is responsible for these numbers? Anyone who feels obliged to wear a suit on a match day has to take some of the blame, and the further up the food chain you go, the more accountable they are.

I just hope that fans rally and let SL know how much him and his generosity is appreciated.

True enough, but I'd like to hear what the plan is to get out of this mess. I think most of us, regardless of wealth would look at this and say "this has to stop, we need to do something different".  I know some of this is due to factors beyond anyones control, but he must be fuming about this. Be honest with supporters and say what's changing and why. A bit of honesty goes a long way.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wasn't there speculation (before Covid) that perhaps this season or maybe last we'd have been able to 'go for it' a bit FFP wise? 

I always thought in theory that this season in isolation promotion or bust meant we could have gone for it a bit but real deep trouble if we had tried that and failed.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[O'Garlandinho]

6 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

He was never a director of Bristol City Holdings Ltd, only Bristol City Football Club Ltd. 

thanks, I look forward to the BCFC accounts on companies house then!

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

It is also probable that they needed to be filed as we are in discussions with the EFL about our transfer policy within FFP considerations. There is mention of those discussions in the accounts. Sounds like we are close to a soft embargo and have to file accounts and provide projections. 

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ouch. Otoh broadly in line with my expectations/fears.

Not read anything but the main article yet, certainly not read them in full.

@billywedlock mentioned something about future trading talks with the EFL. That sounds about right, we're in that zone clearly between upper and lower loss limits- future trading talks etc are whereby club and EFL talk, club submit what they forecast to be their Projected Accounts and FFP losses for the following couple of seasons. ie 2021/22 and 2022/23. Quite a few clubs will probably be in such talks with the EFL, the basic objective is that 3 year FFP losses are kept to no more than £39m at any given time.

Covered by Future Financial Information regs that I've mentioned on occasion.

I digress, FFP wise:

1) I think we're fine to 2020/21.

2) To 2021/22 as well.

3) As for the losses in 2019/20 and 2020/21, these are added together and halved.

4) A very quick scan of the press release suggests £14m in losses attributable to Covid? You can knock that off the losses.

5) I believe our typical FFP costs to be £4-5m per season. Obviously subtract those from the headline losses.

As for when we can spend with relative freedom again at this level? Barring big sales or benefitting from major sell on clauses, it would be IMO 2023/24.

My earlier tweet.  As you point out we have to do 3 year projections if you are over lower limit.

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Wasn't there speculation (before Covid) that perhaps this season or maybe last we'd have been able to 'go for it' a bit FFP wise? 

Yes, pretty much utilising the 18/19 profit.  That notion went out the window though with covid.

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, Dolman Block B said:

Excatly that and yet many fans still bemoan the owner!!!

We would be gone without the Lansdown,s.

A striker could be on the cards if we get rid of Palmer, Dasilva, Vyner, Simpson, Wells but what are their total worth?

And who will want them?

Why would we be gone without him? Please explain.

A lot of the losses are down to his mistakes and bad football decisions as they are every year 

[Sarumred]

I would expect a drop in the wage bill for 2021/22 following the departure of the OOC players at the end of last season.

Also imperative the likes KP are off the payroll as soon as possible. 

[eardun]

1 hour ago, ralphindevon said:

I know nothing about this sort of thing but isn’t this, between Christmas and new year, an odd time to announce this?

Or is it done just before the transfer window on purpose?

I’ve noticed that Pearson has said in a number of interviews that, to manage expectations, City need to be open and transparent as to ‘where we are’. So releasing this now would be aligned to that sentiment. 

[ExiledAjax]

23 minutes ago, O'Garlandinho said:

I notice that Mark Ashton isn’t listed as a director in the accounts even though he was during this accounting period. It’s normal practice to still list him in the accounts but with his resignation date in brackets (if occurred before accounts have been released). Presumably they didn’t want to disclose his remuneration in note 7, for us all to baffle at!

The accounts only list the directors of the holding company. Ashton was never a director of that company. For the same reason Gould isn't listed either. Nothing sinister.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Sarumred said:

I would expect a drop in the wage bill for 2021/22 following the departure of the OOC players at the end of last season.

Also imperative the likes KP are off the payroll as soon as possible. 

Yes, anywhere between £5-7m I reckon cut off the wage bill.  Got to move out those players not playing - Palmer, Dasilva, Moore (on loan) and Wells.  Whether that be on loan or permanently, we must cut the wage bill / bloat.

[Ron W]

54 minutes ago, North London Red said:

The 6-7 weeks’ worth of season ticket sales for 2021-22 which were made before 31 May will only be recognised as P&L revenue in the accounts for the year ended 31 May 2022. None of it will be recognised in the P&L in the year to 31 May 2021.

The accounting entries for these sales in the 2021 accounts will be debit cash, credit deferred revenue (as Ole noted in a later post).

Then in the 2022 accounts the accounting entries will be debit deferred revenue, credit P&L revenue, to match the ticket revenue to the period which it relates to. 

Very happy to stand corrected!

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Carey 6 said:

Anyone know why staff costs rose by nearly £1m in one year? 

Surely can’t be player wages, you’d have thought that would’ve come down. 
 

ignore this - (Should’ve waited til I got to page 33 on the accounts) 

Page 33 of the accounts! You must be a glutton for punishment. The headline figure of £38m loss was enough for me. 

1 hour ago, Ian M said:

This is why I keep saying Ashton going is equivalent to the period when Pulis left us with an aging squad, on big money, on long contracts. It took us years of treading water at L1 level before we were able to challenge again. Pearson's task is to attempt to do that at Championship level. 3 years to get that season off the books (or turn one of the Academy lads into a £40m sale)

It could be worse than the Pulis disaster. We had an aging squad, on big money, on long contracts when City was relegated from Division 1 with Alan Dicks as manager. (Salaries were much smaller then, but City paid comparatively high wages).  I don’t think it will be administration and sinking to the bottom division now, but relegation to League One, either this season or next, is a distinct possibility. If Reading or Derby didn’t have a points deduction City would only be 5 points above Cardiff who would be in the third relegation place. Even if relegation is avoided, selling players such as Scott, Benarous and Semenyo in the near future seems to be inevitable. They will go for bargain fees because City are desperate for money. 

[BRIAN WILSON]

1 hour ago, glynriley said:

Roger looks like HNM in his recent French Youtube Video , ALWAYS HOLDING THE BALL 

[Bristol Rob]

Lots of worried voices and concerns, and I share them.

But let's hold off on the doom mongering until we have heard from an expert on the subject, someone beyond reproach who will doubtless have the inside track. I refer of course to the world's most successful IT engineer who spends his days fixing laptops in BS3 and voicing but verifiable fact.

Henbury Gas will be sure to have had someone in his shop who will have told him that SL is skint, the club is available to buy for 2 magic beans and a crunchie and that unless we sell 84 billion pounds worth of players by a week last Tuesday, Wally has an option to buy Ashton Gate for 2 hours rental on one of those e scooters.

[CyderInACan]

I think it’s our duty to drink more beer and eat more pies at the ground. 

[Taz]

1 hour ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Letting players like Diedhiou and Paterson walk out of the club for free was criminal.

But if nobody is willing and/or able to take them off our hands, what are we supposed to do?

The comment about getting value on the pitch for Diedhiou, was poorly timed especially when it was common knowledge that we were unable to offer contracts to certain players but had made him a huge offer. That created a huge gulf in the squad.

Secondly I think it was his way of putting a huge come and get him sign above his head. Unfortunately for us, his gamble backfired and nobody wanted to take him on on the huge wages he wanted (or that we offered). The clever man was made to look stupid. 

We would also never have got a big money offer for Paterson as he was so inconsistent - a point made to us when we signed him, and one proven by him barely setting the league alight since he left.

Annoying that they left for free I agree, however neither were worth the money they were on when they left.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Lots of worried voices and concerns, and I share them.

But let's hold off on the doom mongering until we have heard from an expert on the subject, someone beyond reproach who will doubtless have the inside track. I refer of course to the world's most successful IT engineer who spends his days fixing laptops in BS3 and voicing but verifiable fact.

Henbury Gas will be sure to have had someone in his shop who will have told him that SL is skint, the club is available to buy for 2 magic beans and a crunchie and that unless we sell 84 billion pounds worth of players by a week last Tuesday, Wally has an option to buy Ashton Gate for 2 hours rental on one of those e scooters.

Yes.

I personally don’t give a shit what any so called ‘experts’ say, I want to hear from the big guns...Henbury Gas and Roy De Alien.

[BRIAN WILSON]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Lots of worried voices and concerns, and I share them.

But let's hold off on the doom mongering until we have heard from an expert on the subject, someone beyond reproach who will doubtless have the inside track. I refer of course to the world's most successful IT engineer who spends his days fixing laptops in BS3 and voicing but verifiable fact.

Henbury Gas will be sure to have had someone in his shop who will have told him that SL is skint, the club is available to buy for 2 magic beans and a crunchie and that unless we sell 84 billion pounds worth of players by a week last Tuesday, Wally has an option to buy Ashton Gate for 2 hours rental on one of those e scooters.

All because he has not been paid by Ashton Gate Ltd for his superb I.T. Consulting services for 3 months 

[BasSavage88]

I'm sure we will hear from our chairman on this. When was Jon last seen? Announcing the new badge? 

 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Letting players like Diedhiou and Paterson walk out of the club for free was criminal.

Who would've paid a fee for either then??

[Oh Louie louie]

With a nickname like invisible jon, we can rely on him, to show his face, and tell us the score.

[pongo88]

16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Simpson, Cundy, King, O'Dowda, Martin (year option)

I expect Simpson and King to be let go. So saving a fair bit there I reckon.

I think Pearson said recently that O'Dowda will earn himself a new deal if he stays fit.

I actually think that might not matter as O'Dowda might himself choose to move on. Just a guess.

Cundy hopefully gets his chance and proves himself enough to earn a new deal.

Martin I reckon has his year option triggered. However much fans will hate it.

I imagine we will sell Kalas in the next 2 windows.

EDIT. Misread your post. Thought I read players contracts expiring this summer

I’m with you on Cundy. Last season he was playing well for Gillingham so if Atkinson can step up from League one, hopefully, so can he. He just needs to get fit to show Pearson what he can do. His salary must be minuscule compared to some of the big earners 

[Merrick's Marvels]

Whether we can stay up this season is open to debate, although the odds are in our favour.

But unless more clubs get walloped with points deductions - and not us! - next season looks bleak to me. 

A business in this much trouble often requires a fire sale and that seems to be where we are - so who knows how long we can keep hold of Kalas, Scott, Benarous, Bentley, Massengo. As for the high-earners we really want rid of, doubtless they'll still be here, a millstone round our neck. 

Talk about up shit creek without a paddle. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[Hxj]

A couple of quick points - 

Pay - although up slightly it would also cover -

• LJ's pay from July to 2020 to September 2020 and a full settlement of his contract ending in June 2023.
• DH's pay from February 2021 to April 2021 and a full settlement of his rolling 12 month contract.
• Potential end of contract bonuses for the players leaving in the summer.

Amortisation

• Unamortised player costs left at 31 May 2021 £14 million

Covid

• Turnover down by around £11.5 million on 2020, or £15 million down on 2019.

[Bristol Rob]

One thing I understand, but equally don't understand is why City were very much in favour of FFP and not wanting to follow Stoke down the route of allowing owners to throw money at their clubs.

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think it’s our duty to drink more beer. 

If it makes the football bearable, I'm game! 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Accounts were signed off last Monday.

I had mixed views on whether we’d announce pre-January window.

1. Manage fans expectations versus

2. Show your hand early when negotiating with clubs you want to buy from, I.e. we’ve got no money, versys

3. Show your hand early to clubs looking to pillage our players

Not sure how this will play out Ralph.

Under 3, I guess the youngsters need to be on long contracts to give us a decent bargaining position.

 

[O'Garlandinho]

7 minutes ago, Hxj said:

A couple of quick points - 

Pay - although up slightly it would also cover -

• LJ's pay from July to 2020 to September 2020 and a full settlement of his contract ending in June 2023.
• DH's pay from February 2021 to April 2021 and a full settlement of his rolling 12 month contract.
• Potential end of contract bonuses for the players leaving in the summer.

Amortisation

• Unamortised player costs left at 31 May 2021 £14 million

Covid

• Turnover down by around £11.5 million on 2020, or £15 million down on 2019.

I thought football manager contracts these days = salary paid for leavers until they get a new job? Or paid until end of contract if they don’t get a new job, obviously.

Also, i believe a full year of Wells compared to prior year is an additional circa £1m in wage bill.

 

[The Bard]

9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Whether we can stay up this season is open to debate, although the odds are in our favour.

But unless more clubs get walloped with points deductions - and not us! - next season looks bleak to me. 

A business in this much trouble often requires a fire sale and that seems to be where we are - so who knows how long we can keep hold of Kalas, Scott, Benarous, Bentley, Massengo. As for the high-earners we really want rid of, doubtless they'll still be here, a millstone round our neck. 

Talk about up shit creek without a paddle. 

I would be keeping Kalas out of that lot but be willing to sell the others at the right price. 

Just hope Scott keeps improving. Maybe gets pushed up the the under 21s squad and gets more exposure nationally.  He's the one with the high ceiling. 

 

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Glad to have Lansdown, but these figures are by and large his fault. 

We had a really trim quality squad that needed two or three additions. Then he let Johnson and Ashton take him to the cleaners and treble the wage bill. This was always coming. 

Ultimately this 1000%.

No matter how free Ashton and LJ were with respect to wage spending. The buck to reign them in was with the Chairman, who is SL's own son, who clearly took his eye off the ball and let MA run roughshod over the operation.

The issue is, and it's been the same across the last 20 years, the sheer lack of competent direction and appointments from the top down.

You can have all the money in the world. But if it leaves the club unsustainable, in debt, and/or fails. It's not the owner who picks up the eventual bill in the end. It's the fans.

2 hours ago, VT05763 said:

Many will be far worse.

I'm actually doubtful. Reading and a handful of others, possibly, but I don't think many clubs were near our sheer level of ineptitude regarding wages to turnover.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 minute ago, The Bard said:

I would be keeping Kalas out of that lot but be willing to sell the others at the right price. 

Just hope Scott keeps improving. Maybe gets pushed up the the under 21s squad and gets more exposure nationally.  He's the one with the high ceiling. 

 

Agree in principle but suspect we're in such a pickle that beggars can't be choosers. 

Perhaps we'll need to cash in the options we hold on Kelly, Webster, Brownhill too? 

[Hampshire reds]

with the accounts been made public today how close are we to a points deduction.

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Taz said:

But if nobody is willing and/or able to take them off our hands, what are we supposed to do?

As my Estate Agent mate will always tell me - every house will sell at the right price.

”We” (SL and MA) compounded it by not getting anything and paying their wages for 6-12 months.  Incompetence!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, Ian M said:

This is why I keep saying Ashton going is equivalent to the period when Pulis left us with an aging squad, on big money, on long contracts. It took us years of treading water at L1 level before we were able to challenge again. Pearson's task is to attempt to do that at Championship level. 3 years to get that season off the books (or turn one of the Academy lads into a £40m sale)

That was horrible Pulis, the big one for me was Paul Mortimer ffs I had him on a Panini sticker set for Charlton in the 80's before I did my GCSEs and we gave him 2.5 years in 1999. I was at Brentford singing Pulis off to Pompy the ****.  And the fall out with Scully at Gillingham was another kick in the balls. 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, O'Garlandinho said:

Presumably they didn’t want to disclose his remuneration in note 7, for us all to baffle at!

That’s in the Bristol City Ltd co accounts as opposed to Holdco if I recall correctly

[marmite]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Definitely need a rebuild now though don’t we!

Just when we can't afford it eh?

[Sleepy1968]

38 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

I'm sure we will hear from our chairman on this. When was Jon last seen? Announcing the new badge? 

 

I think he was last see somewhere around here

[NcnsBcfc]

 

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s see….not convinced by that.  Ours are down to a ridiculously high cost base.  There are a few that might be in the same boat, but FFP-wise many will be fine, because they have a cost base 40-60% of ours and it’s slightly easier to absorb.

Thats my guess anyway.  I’m not including Reading and Derby in that though.

Afternoon @Davefevs.

I know we had a discussion on the FFP thread around the City High cost base. It's never been resolved has it?

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

City don't break down what these operating costs are in the accounts (yet again). But they seem to be a major millstone around our necks moving forward. Regardless of transfer income, and getting wages down; this operatings costs is out of all proportion to the size of the business.

[Bazooka Joe]

2 hours ago, Mike Stone said:

Fingers crossed theres a bidding war for Lloyd Kelly and Newcsstle get their man. Oh and within the first two weeks would be nice

I reckon Kelly must be worth well over £100M by now,

And if there was a bidding war, it would be foolish to think that moneybags Wael won't end up being the highest bidder.  (Source: HenburyGas - he who knows all and must never be doubted ).

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I reckon Kelly must be worth well over £100M by now,

And if there was a bidding war, it would be foolish to think that moneybags Wael won't end up being the highest bidder.  (Source: HenburyGas - he who knows all and must never be doubted ).

With Newcastle supposedly being the next Man City and Eddie Howe an admirer of Kelly, Im hoping for at least 30mill.