City release accounts - Ouch!

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

 

 

Afternoon @Davefevs.

I know we had a discussion on the FFP thread around the City High cost base. It's never been resolved has it?

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

City don't break down what these operating costs are in the accounts (yet again). But they seem to be a major millstone around our necks moving forward. Regardless of transfer income, and getting wages down; this operatings costs is out of all proportion to the size of the business.

Correct, we are a juggernaut of cost, that will take a long time to turn around!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Why would we be gone without him? Please explain.

A lot of the losses are down to his mistakes and bad football decisions as they are every year 

Exactly, Ashton,LJ....who ever didnt bring themselves here, SL is badly running this club he is the boss of this mess. The engine driver is in charge, everything is under his control....and here we are.

Edited December 28, 2021 by gl2

[Davefevs]

One small positive, the £6.2m transfer profit.  I’d estimated £2.8m from sale if players, so can only assume some / all of that difference is “add-ons” from previous player sales, e.g. perhaps Brownhill and Webster had relegation avoidance clauses, or them plus Kelly had appearance clauses.  We only sold Szmodics and Eliasson of any note in 20/21.

@Kid in the Riot - any thoughts?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Exactly, Ashton,LJ....who ever didnt bring themselves here, SL is badly running this club he is the boss of this mess. The engine driver is in charge, everything is under his control....and here we are.

“I know the fans are critical of Mark, but he does a good job, umm, err, and he gives me a voice in the EFL” or words to that effect.

Looks like Richard Gould will be liaising with the EFL pretty regularly going forward!

FFS!

[Sleepy1968]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, we are a juggernaut of cost, that will take a long time to turn around!

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

[Bazooka Joe]

7 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

With Newcastle supposedly being the next Man City and Eddie Howe an admirer of Kelly, Im hoping for at least 30mill.

I'm with you on that.

Any idea how we can get someone to push up the bids to some ridiculous level?

[Loosey Boy]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

I don’t see City being stupid enough to raise ST costs by 30%!

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I wonder what Richard Gould has in store for season ticket (sorry 'card') renewal prices? I'm about the limit of what I'm willing to pay to watch a competent Championship team (and we're not that). My money's on a 30% increase: "thanks for sticking with us, but we're twisting."

Would be suicide imho.

What we need is more fans inside AG, with the appropriate proportion buying stuff whilst they are there.

I think the pricing needs a whole new way of thinking!  I’m not holding my breath though.

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 minute ago, Bazooka Joe said:

I'm with you on that.

Any idea how we can get someone to push up the bids to some ridiculous level?

Start rumours circulating that Liverpool are interested? An international call up on the cards. I'm sure his agent will sort us out haha.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The cost base, obviously wages and non cash costs ie Depreciation, Amortisation, Impairment. It does seem quite high but them again in normal times the high commercial revenue can feed into a highish cost base relating to it?

Wouldn't it also include Academy, Community, Women's football etc.

Of a few of the high wage players mentioned, think we can mostly agree that Palmer isn't the way forward but DaSilva only 23, can still injury permitting turn it around? Good technically. Wells record at QPR was excellent and he was our top scorer last season.

Can we get more on the pitch out of these two? I'd like to think so, albeit whether it's affordable is a different issue entirely!

As for Palmer, the only real time that he looked ideal was when he played behind Weimann and Afobe. Since then he's had moments but these have been fleeting.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Loosey Boy]

I’m surprised that we’ve announced these now - part of the reason must be to manage supporters expectations re . Jan Transfer Window?!

We have shown our hand now but one thing is for sure, others clubs will now know that we will be desperate to offload some players which won’t help our cause when it comes to negotiating any fees.

Can see one of TK, HNM or Bents being sold on Jan

Edited December 28, 2021 by Loosey Boy

[Mr Hankey]

Struggling to get my head around the comments of “glad we have Lansdown”, “shows how lucky we are to have him”……is that really the takeaway from this, or am i living in a parody world? These losses have come under his watch & long term ownership, regardless of the covid situation, we would still be making monumentous losses

[Mr Popodopolous]

One thing that is worth watching, there are a few clubs who seem to be in a similar or worse position than us as their starting point coming into 2021/22.

I know this is strictly about us, but Middlesbrough and Nottingham Forest within a similar range, Stoke despite Parachute Payments and their Impairment appear to be in a worse position, Blackburn remains to be seen but I wonder about EFL intervention in terms of the first 3 especially.

[Bristol Rob]

Why/how are our operating costs so high?

Is it purely down to player wages, or something else.

Seems like a lot of clubs (Cardiff being one) who have random players on monster monster sums of money, but still seem to have a better grip on things.

[Kodjias Wrist]

Do clubs get an allowance due to COVID? Or do they work out an approximate figure if what are income would have been to offset the losses? 

 

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

You don’t know where we’d be without them. How do you know we wouldn’t be better off. The tripling of the wage bill is his fault . Lack of a recruitment plan & letting Ashton ride roughshod for years. Obviously covid has had a big impact but if he’d had a sustainable recruitment/football plan in place we’d be in a better place. 

OK.....So withdraw £200 mill from our current position........we are now.playing in a decrepid stadium with no state of the art training ground to attract players and are probably languishing in Division 1....great plan?

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Why/how are our operating costs so high?

Is it purely down to player wages, or something else.

Seems like a lot of clubs (Cardiff being one) who have random players on monster monster sums of money, but still seem to have a better grip on things.

That is something I’ve been bleating on about too. Our “operational costs” are high too, in 19/20 pure football club accounts, they were £11m for a £16m revenue company!!  Way too high, and not very transparent too!

 

[AshtonGreat]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

OK.....So withdraw £200 mill from our current position........we are now.playing in a decrepid stadium with no state of the art training ground to attract players and are probably languishing in Division 1....great plan?

State of the art training ground? Fat lot of good that's doing us

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

OK.....So withdraw £200 mill from our current position........we are now.playing in a decrepid stadium with no state of the art training ground to attract players and are probably languishing in Division 1....great plan?

That’s one view.  Here’s another  

Under different ownership, who knows we might’ve got it right on the pitch first, then worried about the infrastructure with our PL money.

 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is something I’ve been bleating on about too. Our “operational costs” are high too, in 19/20 pure football club accounts, they were £11m for a £16m revenue company!!  Way too high, and not very transparent too!

 

Any thought as to were this 200k a week is being spent?

[maxjak]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s one view.  Here’s another  

Under different ownership, who knows we might’ve got it right on the pitch first, then worried about the infrastructure with our PL money.

 

i haven't seen a queue to invest so far?  In fact i have never seen a queue to invest?   Only one man has taken the time, trouble and money as far as i can see?  But i guess we could have just waited for someone to eventually come along?

Edited December 28, 2021 by maxjak

[frenchred]

7 minutes ago, maxjak said:

OK.....So withdraw £200 mill from our current position........we are now.playing in a decrepid stadium with no state of the art training ground to attract players and are probably languishing in Division 1....great plan?

With our lavish RENTED stadium and our state of the art RENTED training ground we still can't attract players! Great plan!

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s one view.  Here’s another  

Under different ownership, who knows we might’ve got it right on the pitch first, then worried about the infrastructure with our PL money.

 

Who’s knows?  Maybe we would have thrown money after it in an even bigger way and still failed.  Everyone is wise in hindsight. Lansdown has got it right off the field and made one huge recent error in putting so much faith in Ashton. Anyone who wants Lansdown out is assuming that the perfect owner takes over.  That’s unlikely.  Lansdown isn’t perfect but show me someone who is. 

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Any thought as to were this 200k a week is being spent?

Can’t see anyone knowing the answer to that. It will be guesswork only. The club don’t have to be transparent on this and I don’t know why they would be 

[maxjak]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

With our lavish RENTED stadium and our state of the art RENTED training ground we still can't attract players! Great plan!

If you take that stance,  then just about every stadium and ground in the country is rented? Very simplistic IMHO

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is something I’ve been bleating on about too. Our “operational costs” are high too, in 19/20 pure football club accounts, they were £11m for a £16m revenue company!!  Way too high, and not very transparent too!

 

Those operating costs have got to be the rental of the grounds and loan repayments. SL can't write off the loans under FFP like he used to do so I assume they get packaged up under the banner of Operational Costs. 

[steviestevieneville]

12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

OK.....So withdraw £200 mill from our current position........we are now.playing in a decrepid stadium with no state of the art training ground to attract players and are probably languishing in Division 1....great plan?

Always the negative outlook . Who’s to say someone with less or similar  money but a actual sound football plan came in instead. You’re obviously just looking at it as if nobody would of took over the club of course they would of. If SL knew the slightest thing about football as a sport he wouldn’t have wasted so much money. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Those operating costs have got to be the rental of the grounds and loan repayments. SL can't write off the loans under FFP like he used to do so I assume they get packaged up under the banner of Operational Costs. 

Assume = don't know, stab in the dark, could be anything 

[maxjak]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Who’s knows?  Maybe we would have thrown money after it in an even bigger way and still failed.  Everyone is wise in hindsight. Lansdown has got it right off the field and made one huge recent error in putting so much faith in Ashton. Anyone who wants Lansdown out is assuming that the perfect owner takes over.  That’s unlikely.  Lansdown isn’t perfect but show me someone who is. 

Yeah.......ooh! let;s get a nice foreign owner...that would cause no problems?  People are completely unrealistic, be very careful what u wish For?  LJ's dismissal has also  worked out so very well?

[maxjak]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Always the negative outlook . Who’s to say someone with less or similar  money but a actual sound football plan came in instead. You’re obviously just looking at it as if nobody would of took over the club of course they would of. If SL knew the slightest thing about football as a sport he wouldn’t have wasted so much money. 

So who is this dark stranger riding into town to save the day?   Do tell?

[Numero Uno]

Just now, maxjak said:

Yeah.......ooh! let;s get a nice foreign owner...that would cause no problems?  People are completely unrealistic, be very careful what u wish For?  LJ's dismissal has also  worked out so very well?

To think we wouldn’t have ended up in the same position we are now had we kept LJ would be completely and utterly mental. How can you write such trash on a thread discussing a £38m operating loss?

[maxjak]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

To think we wouldn’t have ended up in the same position we are now had we kept LJ would be completely and utterly mental. How can you write such trash on a thread discussing a £38m operating loss?

Quite easily thanks.........LJ is a far better coach than Nige...........the problem was Mark Ashton not LJ?   But you are far wiser than me ?

[Port Said Red]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ouch. Otoh broadly in line with my expectations/fears.

Not read anything but the main article yet, certainly not read them in full.

@billywedlock mentioned something about future trading talks with the EFL. That sounds about right, we're in that zone clearly between upper and lower loss limits- future trading talks etc are whereby club and EFL talk, club submit what they forecast to be their Projected Accounts and FFP losses for the following couple of seasons. ie 2021/22 and 2022/23. Quite a few clubs will probably be in such talks with the EFL, the basic objective is that 3 year FFP losses are kept to no more than £39m at any given time.

Covered by Future Financial Information regs that I've mentioned on occasion.

I digress, FFP wise:

1) I think we're fine to 2020/21.

2) To 2021/22 as well.

3) As for the losses in 2019/20 and 2020/21, these are added together and halved.

4) A very quick scan of the press release suggests £14m in losses attributable to Covid? You can knock that off the losses.

5) I believe our typical FFP costs to be £4-5m per season. Obviously subtract those from the headline losses.

As for when we can spend with relative freedom again at this level? Barring big sales or benefitting from major sell on clauses, it would be IMO 2023/24.

Your mates at WRDC think this is your comeuppance

https://dcfcfans.uk/topic/38870-bristol-city-next-to-fail-p-and-s/

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

4 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Assume = don't know, stab in the dark, could be anything 

Thanks for the definition, always thought assumptions were things you knew. 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, maxjak said:

Quite easily thanks.........LJ is a far better coach than Nige...........the problem was Mark Ashton not LJ?   But you are far wiser than me ?

Not far wiser but far less naive.

[maxjak]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Not far wiser but far less naive.

And misguided?

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yeah.......ooh! let;s get a nice foreign owner...that would cause no problems?  People are completely unrealistic, be very careful what u wish For?  LJ's dismissal has also  worked out so very well?

Who mentioned a foreign owner ? Too many like you acting like lansdowns shit don’t stink . Take away covid & the losses are still staggering . Who’s fault is that. You keep your head in the sand 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

And misguided?

Yeah, you are definitely misguided to think only one person and one person only contributed to the current shit show, as misguided as you can get.

[maxjak]

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

Who mentioned a foreign owner ? Too many like you acting like lansdowns shit don’t stink . Take away covid & the losses are still staggering . Who’s fault is that. You keep your head in the sand 

How many clubs when for sale have been bought by foreign owners..........do your research.  The only owners who will be able to afford City are 99% certain to be foreign,,and then it becomes another completely different  can of worms?

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

Yeah, you are definitely misguided to think only one person and one person only contributed to the current shit show, as misguided as you can get.

And that is?

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Quite easily thanks.........LJ is a far better coach than Nige...........the problem was Mark Ashton not LJ?   But you are far wiser than me ?

Jesus wept. 

6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Quite easily thanks.........LJ is a far better coach than Nige...........the problem was Mark Ashton not LJ?   But you are far wiser than me ?

Jesus wept. 

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Who mentioned a foreign owner ? Too many like you acting like lansdowns shit don’t stink . Take away covid & the losses are still staggering . Who’s fault is that. You keep your head in the sand 

I don’t see anyone calling him the messiah. He has done some good things and bad things.  Overall though I would rather him than roll the dice for someone else. Maybe I’m just more conservative than others. I just can’t bear the thought of an owner with awful intentions. 

[maxjak]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

Jesus wept. 

Jesus wept. 

Off you go to Bible class...Ha!

[Hxj]

1 hour ago, NcnsBcfc said:

In essence, outside of wages; City's operating costs for the last season seem to still be around £25m. Almost twice that of clubs of the same turnover as us in the division.

 

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Correct, we are a juggernaut of cost, that will take a long time to turn around!

The non-amortisation operating costs of Ashton Gate in the 2020 accounts were £7.5 million.  It is expensive to run, but it was also designed to generate significant income for the club, which it does or at least it did and will do.  I think that City were about fourth or fifth highest generators of commercial income in the Championship, consequently the operating costs of the ground will be significantly higher than for others.  I would add that I think that that is a good cost.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Hxj

[BasSavage88]

 

Broken down in the thread 

[sh1t_ref_again]

9 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Thanks for the definition, always thought assumptions were things you knew. 

In that case you are now saying you know SL has packaged loan repayments to himself under the banner of Operational Costs. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

9 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Quite easily thanks.........LJ is a far better coach than Nige...........the problem was Mark Ashton not LJ?   But you are far wiser than me ?

Don't forget the Lansdown interview on Radio Bristol, it is "his club and he will do what he wants". So he is the only one to blame for this shit show!

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, maxjak said:

How many clubs when for sale have been bought by foreign owners..........do your research.  The only owners who will be able to afford City are 99% certain to be foreign,,and then it becomes another completely different  can of worms?

And that is?

In your world ONLY Swiss seems to get any blame. I would suggest that you look at all management levels from Owner down to first team managers over the last 3-4 years to answer how we can end up in such a position. As others have said had Covid not happened this would have all caught up with us anyway……..and for what? A club treading water at Championship level that since the Wolves defeat a few years back has barely strung a few decent performances together. Barely anyone who goes to Ashton Gate these days does so with any expectation of watching a decent game and this has been the case for years. How the Owner and First Team managers over this period cannot bear any responsibility for that is beyond me tbh.

[maxjak]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

In your world ONLY Swiss seems to get any blame. I would suggest that you look at all management levels from Owner down to first team managers over the last 3-4 years to answer how we can end up in such a position. As others have said had Covid not happened this would have all caught up with us anyway……..and for what? A club treading water at Championship level that since the Wolves defeat a few years back has barely strung a few decent performances together. Barely anyone who goes to Ashton Gate these days does so with any expectation of watching a decent game and this has been the case for years. How the Owner and First Team managers over this period cannot bear any responsibility for that is beyond me tbh.

With the greatest respect.........i don't understand your point?   What have the Swiss got to do with it?

[Fordy62]

 

Wow. 

[East Londoner]

6 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

 

Broken down in the thread 

Interesting part of that i hadn’t seen mentioned here is there’s £11 million of transfer fees still due which outweighs transfer fees owed. So whilst it looks bad it could’ve been worse 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Jesus wept. 

It'll be the year 2038 and you'll still be blaming LJ for the woes of Bristol City. 

Perhaps you could run your theory past us, of how a man not responsible for negotiating or agreeing wages of new signings nor signing those deals off, is responsible for a £38m business loss?

Thanks in advance. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

3 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

In that case you are now saying you know SL has packaged loan repayments to himself under the banner of Operational Costs. 

I think you may have missed my sarcasm. Thank you for your valuable feedback though. 

[steviestevieneville]

6 minutes ago, maxjak said:

How many clubs when for sale have been bought by foreign owners..........do your research.  The only owners who will be able to afford City are 99% certain to be foreign,,and then it becomes another completely different  can of worms?

And that is?

But your  just assuming whoever would of bought the club would of been bad owners, based on nothing than your opinion . We’re talking 20 years ago as well, not now. If you’re happy with a rebuilt stadium & training ground that’s one thing . However you or nobody else can’t say he’s not made multiple very poor footballing decisions. Like I said , head in the sand . 

[Maesknoll Red]

8 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

 

Broken down in the thread 

That is difficult reading and if there are other clubs in the same position, something is very wrong with football as a commercial entity, if it’s just us, there is a huge incompetence and mismanagement at play here.

I do wonder, given some of the games I see, how £16K PW can be seen as a realistic and viable wage for the return we get.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, maxjak said:

With the greatest respect.........i don't understand your point?   What have the Swiss got to do with it?

Oh sorry, I was referring to Swiss Toni, our previous CEO such name calling you will no doubt find grotesque or some similarly descriptive word……

[Kid in the Riot]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

 

Wow. 

Wow indeed. But wages in the Championship significantly increased across the board over that 2015-2021 period, as did our revenue due to the redevelopment of AG, enabling us to spend a lot more on wages.

Also, even with a circa £30m annual wage budget, that was still usually only 12-14th highest in the Championship. 

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t see anyone calling him the messiah. He has done some good things and bad things.  Overall though I would rather him than roll the dice for someone else. Maybe I’m just more conservative than others. I just can’t bear the thought of an owner with awful intentions. 

He’s been in charge for 20 years though & football wise we’ve hardly improved considering his outlay. Plenty of clubs with less wealthy owners have surpassed us. 

[maxjak]

3 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

Don't forget the Lansdown interview on Radio Bristol, it is "his club and he will do what he wants". So he is the only one to blame for this shit show!

Well it IS his club?....if he suddenly withdrew his financial support overnight, then we would  be probably screwed?   Who is going to lead us out of this financial mess?   i am fully aware that SL has made numerous misjudgements, but who do u think is going to bail us out of our current predicament....that man, for all his faults will be SL ?

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

It'll be the year 2038 and you'll still be blaming LJ for the woes of Bristol City. 

Perhaps you could run your theory past us, of how a man not responsible for negotiating or agreeing wages of new signings nor signing those deals off, is responsible for a £38m business loss?

Thanks in advance. 

Perhaps when having a pop at others you might also explain how the whole of the current shit show can be caused by only one person. As big a ******* shithouse as Swiss is you have to acknowledge that the Owner asleep at the wheel and a manager loading a squad with mediocre clubs in the bag have also made a contribution however minor you see it.

Wont say thanks in advance, no need for it.

[Red Army 75]

SL has publicly said he is seeking new investment. Openly said it. All this be careful for what you wish for is out of the fans hands. Inevitably he will sell the club. And within the next couple of years IMO

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It'll be the year 2038 and you'll still be blaming LJ for the woes of Bristol City. 

Perhaps you could run your theory past us, of how a man not responsible for negotiating or agreeing wages of new signings nor signing those deals off, is responsible for a £38m business loss?

Thanks in advance. 

Johnson 

 

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It'll be the year 2038 and you'll still be blaming LJ for the woes of Bristol City. 

Perhaps you could run your theory past us, of how a man not responsible for negotiating or agreeing wages of new signings nor signing those deals off, is responsible for a £38m business loss?

Thanks in advance. 

Ahhh, the leader of the ‘all good things were LJ and all bad things were MA’ brigade. 

Beggars belief. You’ll be telling me that selling Ayling and Freeman for £1m combined was Ashton’s fault, or signing a million goalies - none better than FF was all MA.

Get yourself a bit of balance mate. 

[Kid in the Riot]

13 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

 

Broken down in the thread 

Lansdown has now spent £214m on City, but is still owed £96m from the club

[maxjak]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Oh sorry, I was referring to Swiss Toni, our previous CEO such name calling you will no doubt find grotesque or some similarly descriptive word……

No.........that's a really good name for him.....I agree that it is appropriate for a used car salesman masquerading as a CEO

[Fordy62]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Wow indeed. But wages in the Championship significantly increased across the board over that 2015-2021 period, as did our revenue due to the redevelopment of AG, enabling us to spend a lot more on wages.

Also, even with a circa £30m annual wage budget, that was still usually only 12-14th highest in the Championship. 

Just goes to show what a wasted opportunity it was doesn’t it?

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Lansdown has now spent £214m on City, but is still owed £96m from the club

How much do you think he would recoup when he sells it all. If the new basketball arena is built as well. 

[Barrs Court Red]

Well done Steve, another fine mess your boy has got us into.  No one could have predicted Covid, but run away costs and failure were always likely and predictable with that leadership team. 
 

It’s convenient that the two orgs that have needed careful management over this period as they take off (Bears and Ashton Gate) don’t seem to have had this issue, and have thrived as organisations. 
 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

No.........that's a really good name for him.....I agree that it is appropriate for a used car salesman masquerading as a CEO

…….and my point is that whilst I cannot disagree that he is the worst appointment EVER made by the club the man who appointed him (and even worse defended him) cannot get off Scot free and nor can the manager who worked with him for so long.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Numero Uno

[spudski]

I'd have no problem if professional football just imploded and it all had to start again.

The only people that benefit from the business system as it is, are the players and Agents.

Everyone else is out of pocket...owners and fans...and many who work within the game are on lower wages than they could get elsewhere.

Bang for buck...the entertainment value these players at this level give are way out of proportion.

Does anyone honestly believe the players we watch at our club are worth £20 k a week?

It's mental as fans that we go along with it.

If only everyone stopped paying for sky sports and season tickets for a year. Went to watch their local amateur side instead. 

Actions...that's what's needed...not words.

Yep...it's ingrained. But if we want change...

[Red Army 75]

It’s time the clubs wrestled back the power from Agents and Players.

[Ivorguy]

We desperately need a proper plan, both as regards players and finances.  There is little evidence we have either.

By the way, it isn’t SL’s club he is merely the temporary custodian. One day he will be gone. A new custodian will arrive, and hopefully be better prepared to take external advice, draw up a feasible plan, and leave the club in due course in a better place than he/she found it