City release accounts - Ouch!

[Merrick's Marvels]

10 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

When asked about how this window could be the hardest Pearson replied 'I don't know, it could be. It could turn out to be quite easy. I don't 

A very Pearson response. 

But at least his response wasn't "we're not looking to do any business" and so, by implication, confirming we are trying to get some new faces through the door.

On the other hand, he might just have double bluffed us. I bet he's good at poker. 

[KegCity]

Just now, Pezo said:

Selling players makes sense - it's the only way to get enough money in to compete at the top end of the table, I can't think of another way to fund running the club at the top end of the championship without PP.

Recruitment is key - players should sell themselves but we need to buy players that can replace them and don't have massive wage demands.

Selling players like Scott makes no sense IMHO because he won't be a high earner.

Can’t be many clubs who regularly sell their best players and get out the league? I don’t see how it’s possible to constantly tear apart squads and expect progress, you can see in the difference between the squad that beat united and the current one what happens with this model. It hasn’t even worked as there’s no guarantees around the quality of recruitment.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Let them learn themselves. Many of us ignored Watford fans and had to learn the hard way and Ipswich fans will be the same.

They have no concept of the roles, responsibilities and accountability of a CEO.  Eff me, some of them are amazingly ignorant.

10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

A very Pearson response. 

But at least his response wasn't "we're not looking to do any business" and so, by implication, confirming we are trying to get some new faces through the door.

On the other hand, he might just have double bluffed us. I bet he's good at poker. 

I bet he’s not.

His “tells” are bleeding obvious.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Davefevs

[INCRED]

If so many other clubs in the division are in the same boat or worse off then how the hell are they so much better than us?

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

SL has publicly said he is seeking new investment. Openly said it. All this be careful for what you wish for is out of the fans hands. Inevitably he will sell the club. And within the next couple of years IMO

There's other things to be more "careful" about these days, I find. 

[REDOXO]

44 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

That’s really interesting. In 2015 Cotterill had an excellent squad, by League One standards, though not good enough to be competitive in the Championship. What was needed was a small number of quality additions but what we got was an endless stream of players who pushed up the wage bill without any return on investment 

That’s interesting. The Gayle/Grey saga was weird. Again plenty on here know a lot more than meets the eye. Who did we sign, I honestly can not remember, between promotion and Cotterill getting sacked. The Sack Cloth saga was just laughable as well. Pembo took over then LJ n Ashton went on a spending spree. As I remember it ably assisted by JL and SL and any mentions of what were we doing were met with my money my men my choice was my own assessment. 

[Pezo]

9 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Can’t be many clubs who regularly sell their best players and get out the league? I don’t see how it’s possible to constantly tear apart squads and expect progress, you can see in the difference between the squad that beat united and the current one what happens with this model. It hasn’t even worked as there’s no guarantees around the quality of recruitment.

You need to figure out what the risks are and find mitigation.

The biggest risk is recruitment both individually and fitting into the squad so put a lot of effort into getting the right players in the right places and don't sell players that you don't already know who the replacement is. Don't let a wheeler dealer take recruitment apart and arrogantly think he is the master of recruitment.

[Port Said Red]

23 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Currently moonlighting alongside Diane Abbott in Cinderella

With 1 hundreddy 1000 ugly sisters.

[RedHienz]

Is anyone shocked by this? Almost every business reliant on people attending in person has suffered.

SL out posts aplenty on here but the reality of football is that we need him more then he needs us, nobody either as an individual or state run consortium would continue this level of investment.

 

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

That’s interesting. The Gayle/Grey saga was weird. Again plenty on here know a lot more than meets the eye. Who did we sign, I honestly can not remember, between promotion and Cotterill getting sacked. The Sack Cloth saga was just laughable as well. Pembo took over then LJ n Ashton went on a spending spree. As I remember it ably assisted by JL and SL and any mentions of what were we doing were met with my money my men my choice was my own assessment. 

Kodjia and Fredericks (though obviously he came and went!) on permanent deals. Then Elliot Bennett, Simon Cox, Callum Robinson and Ben Hamer on loan. There may be others I've forgotten.

[NcnsBcfc]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All season Nige has been talking about a trimmer squad…now you know why.

Richard Gould stated we need to maximise every pound spent…that means try to move on those squad members not playing.

Nige (Manager) and Gould (CEO) aligned….is a good start.  It’s why Nige has been open about moving on players.  It won’t be easy though.

Both deserve some credit for taking on this challenge.  I trust them.  That’s not saying they will achieve, but I trust them to do the right thing.  I cannot say that about the previous CEO, and I think the “bad side” of LJ (he had good things too) was that he pushed and pushed for more and was allowed to do so.  Yeah, he had to sell players, but he got to invest a bloody big portion of that money (fees and wages), more than a sustainable model suggests he should have.

Well that's the end of any new contracts for Kalas, Bentley, COD, HNM and Martin in the summer then? Kalas, Bentley and HNM entering final year, so will still have some value.

Simply can't afford to get anywhere near either what they are currently on, or in the case of HNM & Bentley in particular what they will want. Can't afford just to write their value off either, like we did with Nagy.

Followed on by getting rid one way or another of KP,JD and Wells off the wage bill. Going to have to take a massive hit on their values just to get rid of them.

[Waconda]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Let’s see….not convinced by that.  Ours are down to a ridiculously high cost base.  There are a few that might be in the same boat, but FFP-wise many will be fine, because they have a cost base 40-60% of ours and it’s slightly easier to absorb.

Thats my guess anyway.  I’m not including Reading and Derby in that though.

Yep, wait and see but some seem to think we are alone in this.

Some clubs are worse and many are as bad.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Kodjia and Fredericks (though obviously he came and went!) on permanent deals. Then Elliot Bennett, Simon Cox, Callum Robinson and Ben Hamer on loan. There may be others I've forgotten.

Nathan Baker on loan too.  Liam Moore too, although he suffered a hernia and we never saw the best of him…he’s proved throughout his time he’s a top-Champ CB.

1 minute ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Well that's the end of any new contracts for Kalas, Bentley, COD, HNM and Martin in the summer then? Kalas, Bentley and HNM entering final year, so will still have some value.

Simply can't afford to get anywhere near either what they are currently on, or in the case of HNM & Bentley in particular what they will want. Can't afford just to write their value off either, like we did with Nagy.

Followed on by getting rid one way or another of KP,JD and Wells off the wage bill. Going to have to take a massive hit on their values just to get rid of them.

Think we have to understand that other clubs won’t necessarily be able to meet their wage demands either.  They will’ve seen Weimann take a 50% paycut (and Baker), amid interest elsewhere, so they will know the landscape has changed.

If it were me, I’d try to re-contract the ones you need to keep by either staggering their wage decrease, or smooth it through a longer term.

Not saying that will be easy, nor we might see some leave, but some players might realise that agent promises aren’t worth a lot currently.

Agree on last para 100%.

[Waconda]

5 hours ago, Fuber said:

Ultimately this 1000%.

No matter how free Ashton and LJ were with respect to wage spending. The buck to reign them in was with the Chairman, who is SL's own son, who clearly took his eye off the ball and let MA run roughshod over the operation.

The issue is, and it's been the same across the last 20 years, the sheer lack of competent direction and appointments from the top down.

You can have all the money in the world. But if it leaves the club unsustainable, in debt, and/or fails. It's not the owner who picks up the eventual bill in the end. It's the fans.

I'm actually doubtful. Reading and a handful of others, possibly, but I don't think many clubs were near our sheer level of ineptitude regarding wages to turnover.

There are many worse than us in regard wages to turn over - Preston for example I am fairly sure.

There must be a list on this ?

[NcnsBcfc]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nathan Baker on loan too.  Liam Moore too, although he suffered a hernia and we never saw the best of him…he’s proved throughout his time he’s a top-Champ CB.

Think we have to understand that other clubs won’t necessarily be able to meet their wage demands either.  They will’ve seen Weimann take a 50% paycut (and Baker), amid interest elsewhere, so they will know the landscape has changed.

If it were me, I’d try to re-contract the ones you need to keep by either staggering their wage decrease, or smooth it through a longer term.

Not saying that will be easy, nor we might see some leave, but some players might realise that agent promises aren’t worth a lot currently.

Agree on last para 100%.

I agree that other clubs might struggle. But we need to create room in our budget to recruit new players as well.

If the players coming into their last year aren't willing to negotiate; then we need to move them on.

As for COD and Martin. It'll be interesting as to where their offers might come from. A lot of money in L1 nowadays....

[Waconda]

9 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Well that's the end of any new contracts for Kalas, Bentley, COD, HNM and Martin in the summer then? Kalas, Bentley and HNM entering final year, so will still have some value.

Simply can't afford to get anywhere near either what they are currently on, or in the case of HNM & Bentley in particular what they will want. Can't afford just to write their value off either, like we did with Nagy.

Followed on by getting rid one way or another of KP,JD and Wells off the wage bill. Going to have to take a massive hit on their values just to get rid of them.

More of a case of running down those big contracts, nobody is going to pay enough in these times for those players to want to move.

Will take years, hence the reason the coaching staff have to get the very best out of what we have, we are where we are and it will be a slow process.

I think HNM may be a different case - IMO.

 

[Jerseybean]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He signs it all off.  He’s culpable too….unless he had the wool pulled completely over his eyes by Ashton, in which case, that’s just as bad.

He’s done good stuff in propping up losses and building the ground and training facility, but he’s allowed reckless spending.  That imho does not let him off Scott-free!

Jeez I thought AS was part of the solution  

Sobering data which provides us all with the grim reality of the situation. Accounts and financial literacy aren’t really my bag but it is crystal-clear we are in deep trouble and the sustainable model is a total myth. While recognising that professional football is financially screwed and Covid has amplified and accelerated the problems we have to fundamentally address our situation.

Now that we all appreciate the seriousness of the situation I look forward to understanding and hearing from the Club how we will reduce our operating costs, wage bill and increase our revenue although it seems to me to be a total Catch 22. Forgive the massive over-simplification here - financial security means being in the Premiership, getting there, as we know, ain’t easy and FFP prevents Clubs chucking even more money at achieving promotion. Fans want to see entertaining and exciting football and will pay for that (sadly BCFC haven’t played much exciting/entertaining football for a number of seasons), furthermore, given that many Championship teams are of about the same ability tense games, decided by a narrow margin, are commonplace e.g. tense, edgy not exciting, entertaining. 

So the conundrum is to reduce costs while creating a team capable of promotion and providing entertaining, exciting football. May I (genuinely) be the first to wish our hierarchy the very best in addressing this.  Whatever happens, and despite the excellent and provocative posts in this thread about the nonsense of professional football and the freedom offered by the amateur game, I will be a City fan until the day I die (in case anyone is are wondering I’m still stuck in solitary in Brooklyn having returned a positive test result.)   

[Waconda]

Just now, NcnsBcfc said:

I agree that other clubs might struggle. But we need to create room in our budget to recruit new players as well.

If the players coming into their last year aren't willing to negotiate; then we need to move them on.

As for COD and Martin. It'll be interesting as to where their offers might come from. A lot of money in L1 nowadays....

You can't just "move them on" - you will literally be struggling to give them away or wait for the end of contract.

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Jeez I thought AS was part of the solution  

Sobering data which provides us all with the grim reality of the situation. Accounts and financial literacy aren’t really my bag but it is crystal-clear we are in deep trouble and the sustainable model is a total myth. While recognising that professional football is financially screwed and Covid has amplified and accelerated the problems we have to fundamentally address our situation.

Now that we all appreciate the seriousness of the situation I look forward to understanding and hearing from the Club how we will reduce our operating costs, wage bill and increase our revenue although it seems to me to be a total Catch 22. Forgive the massive over-simplification here - financial security means being in the Premiership, getting there, as we know, ain’t easy and FFP prevents Clubs chucking even more money at achieving promotion. Fans want to see entertaining and exciting football and will pay for that (sadly BCFC haven’t played much exciting/entertaining football for a number of seasons), furthermore, given that many Championship teams are of about the same ability tense games, decided by a narrow margin, are commonplace e.g. tense, edgy not exciting, entertaining. 

So the conundrum is to reduce costs while creating a team capable of promotion and providing entertaining, exciting football. May I (genuinely) be the first to wish our hierarchy the very best in addressing this.  Whatever happens, and despite the excellent and provocative posts in this thread about the nonsense of professional football and the freedom offered by the amateur game, I will be a City fan until the day I die (in case anyone is are wondering I’m still stuck in solitary in Brooklyn having returned a positive test result.)   

Quality coaching and man management is essential, will need to develop what we have. In some ways exciting times.

[shelts]

We’ve been bailed out by Steve .  

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

There are many worse than us in regard wages to turn over - Preston for example I am fairly sure.

There must be a list on this ?

Preston to take an example it's a bit of a catch 22.

Their turnover is lower and yes wages/turnover may well be worse, but their overall running costs are much lower- but otoh they lack the income streams, especially the commercial ones that we have.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You can't just "move them on" - you will literally be struggling to give them away or wait for the end of contract.

Although to take an example, Stoke managed to somehow (so far) convince the EFL that £30m of Player Impairment costs could be put down to Covid which enabled a proportion of them to indeed be given away, maybe wages partially paid in some cases and quite a lot left on free transfers- this also reduced the amortisation costs in upcoming years though I don't think they should've heard the last of this...

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although to take an example, Stoke managed to somehow (so far) convince the EFL that £30m of Player Impairment costs could be put down to Covid which enabled a proportion of them to indeed be given away, maybe wages partially paid in some cases and quite a lot left on free transfers- this also reduced the amortisation costs in upcoming years though I don't think they should've heard the last of this...

"without risking a massive points deduction down the line" -  I should have added.

[BasSavage88]

11 minutes ago, shelts said:

We’ve been bailed out by Steve .  

Steve bailed Steve out 

[pongo88]

55 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Meanwhile it can't possibly be Ashton's fault according to Ipswich fans

https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/526792/bristol-city-make-�38.4m-loss/#13

They should remember - He who laughs last laughs longest

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

"without risking a massive points deduction down the line" -  I should have added.

Fair. Stoke fans seem fairly bullish about their position tbh based on their forum- when I say position, no way would they fall into insolvency I mean FFP.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[NcnsBcfc]

23 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

You can't just "move them on" - you will literally be struggling to give them away or wait for the end of contract.

Ala Nagy....

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Ala Nagy....

Oddly enough, there is a £750k Impairment in the accounts- Nagy then leaves on a free/for a low fee, could the two have been linked?

I actually think he was a decent player FWIW and in a more possession based side I wonder if we might have seen better.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I agree that other clubs might struggle. But we need to create room in our budget to recruit new players as well.

If the players coming into their last year aren't willing to negotiate; then we need to move them on.

As for COD and Martin. It'll be interesting as to where their offers might come from. A lot of money in L1 nowadays....

What we most definitely cannot afford to do is repeat the Diedhiou scenario, that is continue paying a whole years wage for someone who is gonna move on.  We have to find a way to move them on, whether that be cut-price fee (free?) or loan.  We have to recoup some of that wage bill, even if we create an impairment on the fee / amortisation.

11 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Although to take an example, Stoke managed to somehow (so far) convince the EFL that £30m of Player Impairment costs could be put down to Covid which enabled a proportion of them to indeed be given away, maybe wages partially paid in some cases and quite a lot left on free transfers- this also reduced the amortisation costs in upcoming years though I don't think they should've heard the last of this...

Have they convinced the EFL?  What we don’t know is how that was factored into their FFP returns.  Unless you however have more info on this.

6 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

They should remember - He who laughs last laughs longest

Or as my dad says - “he who laughs last, didn’t get the joke in the first place”!

[maxjak]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Deary deary me………

How cuttingly glib?  If you  have an opinion, then express it, and NOT make a comment  that sounds like a cross between Nanny Mcphee and Mary Poppins?.....Deary Deary Me.........Really?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oddly enough, there is a £750k Impairment in the accounts- Nagy then leaves on a free/for a low fee, could the two have been linked?

I actually think he was a decent player FWIW and in a more possession based side I wonder if we might have seen better.

Nagy will be in 21/22 accounts not the ones published.

Hopefully Nagy’s impairment will be offset by the wages saved.

[Waconda]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oddly enough, there is a £750k Impairment in the accounts- Nagy then leaves on a free/for a low fee, could the two have been linked?

I actually think he was a decent player FWIW and in a more possession based side I wonder if we might have seen better.

Nagy is a different situation to most to be fair.

He wanted to move for family reasons more than anything else (I believe) and would have come to a mutually agreeable exit package I would have thought.

[Waconda]

What we most definitely cannot afford to do is repeat the Diedhiou scenario, that is continue paying a whole years wage for someone who is gonna move on.  We have to find a way to move them on, whether that be cut-price fee (free?) or loan.  We have to recoup some of that wage bill, even if we create an impairment on the fee / amortisation.

Yes, there will probably be loans where we pay two thirds of the wage with no loan fee for example.

Palmer, Wells and DaSilva could fall into this category maybe.

[lenred]

13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

How cuttingly glib?  If you  have an opinion, then express it, and NOT make a comment  that sounds like a cross between Nanny Mcphee and Mary Poppins?.....Deary Deary Me.........Really?

Your opinion that LJ is better than Pearson is absolute bollocks. That any better for you? 

[shelts]

25 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Steve bailed Steve out 

Certainly true that . He’s always backed his managers to be fair. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Have they convinced the EFL?  What we don’t know is how that was factored into their FFP returns.  Unless you however have more info on this.

Ha if only I did. I'm basing my view on the fact that there as yet has been no sanction/embargo handed down to date but otoh it could easily be subject to ongoing review- in fact it seems like the only sensible solution given that it would take a year or 2 to work out just how justified it is, to see how the market shakes down post Covid. The problem is that when subject to ongoing review, a side can sneak up via the playoffs or similar?

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[real_bristol]

For those not wanting to trawl through 11 pages I found this thread useful. 
 

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

From @Coppello

(With scribbles from me)

from @ExiledAjax

Ta, that rings a bell from looking at the accounts last year.

Ha, see, I did know where the fans hold shares.

Noticed in the accounts there's one more dormant company under the Holdco, but no matter really. It does surprise me that neither Ashton nor Gould were/are directors of Holdco. Presumably there is a reason for that beyond "we'd need to get one extra signature on the board resolutions".

[maxjak]

18 minutes ago, lenred said:

Your opinion that LJ is better than Pearson is absolute bollocks. That any better for you? 

How succinct......you are quite obviously a student of the game?  .....The fact is that Nige has rarely coached, if ever,  our team, as he leaves that to Fleming.......yet LJ spent most of his time in a tracksuit on the training pitch, must somehow have escaped your attention?...........  Did you also know that cretin is between cramp and dullard in the dictionary?

Edited December 28, 2021 by maxjak

[CodeRed]

49 minutes ago, shelts said:

We’ve been bailed out by Steve .  

He's bailed himself out.

His club 

His decisions

His appointments 

His choices

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ha if only I did. I'm basing my view on the fact that there as yet has been no sanction/embargo handed down to date but otoh it could easily be subject to ongoing review- in fact it seems like the only sensible solution given that it would take a year or 2 to work out just how justified it is, to see how the market shakes down post Covid. The problem is that when subject to ongoing review, a side can sneak up via the playoffs or similar?

As it stands, Stoke are in the cycle that includes a PL year (17/18), so we will need to see 20/21s accounts to see where they are.  Cat 1 status will offset some of those losses, but will be interesting to see when they post these, typically they are before the end of the year, last year they took advantage of the 3 month extension.

They’ve got to be close with impairment / allowance, but may point to Nathan Collins sale in the summer as putting their house in order.

Will be lots of fans sweating having seen ours today.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, maxjak said:

yet LJ spent most of his time in a tracksuit on the training pitch, must somehow have escaped your attention?

Did he?  Distinctly recall Macca being moved into the first team coaching role to give LJ more time to focus on recruitment.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

They have no concept of the roles, responsibilities and accountability of a CEO.  Eff me, some of them are amazingly ignorant.

I bet he’s not.

His “tells” are bleeding obvious.

"Yeah....." 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

He's bailed himself out.

His club 

His decisions

His appointments 

His choices

 

 

 

 

Sold some top class players and bought players that where the cheap option that didn’t work 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

As it stands, Stoke are in the cycle that includes a PL year (17/18), so we will need to see 20/21s accounts to see where they are.  Cat 1 status will offset some of those losses, but will be interesting to see when they post these, typically they are before the end of the year, last year they took advantage of the 3 month extension.

They’ve got to be close with impairment / allowance, but may point to Nathan Collins sale in the summer as putting their house in order.

Will be lots of fans sweating having seen ours today.

I make their figures £55.5m, ie their upper loss limit to 2020/21. Without Covid that would've been £61m IIRC to 2020 and £39m to 2021. They usually are before the end of the year yeah, as are Birmingham and though not our level, Everton- none have yet materialised, probably a good reason for that.

In fact I'm covering bits of them and two others on the FFP thread now and trying to work out their position and how they might compare to ours. Collins would be a useful mitigating factor and offloading as many as they did might mitigate.

[James54De]

Does this pose any danger to our existence? 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

7 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

The annual reminder of how utterly overpaid footballers are

Absolutely right AG!  If players can't survive on £2-5000 per week then I suggest they are living well over their means, £25,000 a week for the little time they actually work is quite mental.  I wish I could have got paid that money for working 6 days a week, starting at 0400 and finishing around midnight or later depending on the duty,  early mornings and late nights for 25 years. They probably only work 3 or 4 days training and certainly not 8 or 10 hours a day and at most 2 or 3 games a weeks, they are not superstars, but only average football players, as the results confirm. Football needs a shake up from top to bottom, otherwise it could get unaffordable by the working man who started it all in the first place. Where would these players be then?

[Silvio Dante]

17 minutes ago, real_bristol said:

For those not wanting to trawl through 11 pages I found this thread useful. 
 

 

This is one of the ones that sticks out for me (the bottom of the two). The stadium is, in normal times, a 24/7 venue, and has been designed to give us a bit of a leg up against those with parachute payments etc. Mark Kelly said we were looking at six concerts this year originally, and with all else I’d imagine we projected to be higher than that £16m in 2019. 
 

I’m not saying things are rosy. But I would think we’re probably £15m shy on commercial income of where we thought we’d be, and when you also add in the loss of match day income that £39m shrinks by a lot in a normalised season - even before we tackle the excessive wage issue.

 

[Waconda]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Did he?  Distinctly recall Macca being moved into the first team coaching role to give LJ more time to focus on recruitment.

LJ did much of the day to day "on grass" coaching.

NP does some. (more now)

Doesn't mean one is better than the other necessarily.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

They should remember - He who laughs last laughs longest

He who laughs last probably didn’t get the joke.

[Waconda]

39 minutes ago, lenred said:

Your opinion that LJ is better than Pearson is absolute bollocks. That any better for you? 

In your opinion.

[Waconda]

10 minutes ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

Absolutely right AG!  If players can't survive on £2-5000 per week then I suggest they are living well over their means, £25,000 a week for the little time they actually work is quite mental.  I wish I could have got paid that money for working 6 days a week, starting at 0400 and finishing around midnight or later depending on the duty,  early mornings and late nights for 25 years. They probably only work 3 or 4 days training and certainly not 8 or 10 hours a day and at most 2 or 3 games a weeks, they are not superstars, but only average football players, as the results confirm. Football needs a shake up from top to bottom, otherwise it could get unaffordable by the working man who started it all in the first place. Where would these players be then?

Free Market Capitalism Sir.

Awful isn't it ?

[City1970]

8 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Bloody Lansdown, why don't 'e put his hand in 'is pocket and buy a striker?.

Because he foolishly believed in a rookie manager who did not reinvest wisely from the sales of Kodjia, Webster, Reid, Bryan, Kelly etc. assuming he was allowed.

He then brings in a proven manager who do not get substantial funds to invest.

It reminds me of a certain chairman who allowed the sale of Goater to Man City when in pole position for promotion and then bought McCarthy to get us over the line but failed. Should have kept Goater.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

11 minutes ago, City1970 said:

Because he foolishly believed in a rookie manager who did not reinvest wisely from the sales of Kodjia, Webster, Reid, Bryan, Kelly etc. assuming he was allowed.

He then brings in a proven manager who do not get substantial funds to invest.

It reminds me of a certain chairman who allowed the sale of Goater to Man City when in pole position for promotion and then bought McCarthy to get us over the line but failed. Should have kept Goater.

Next time a bigger better company / opportunity comes along offering you an environment and financial uplift which you've dreamed of- just say no because your employer says so.

 

Why is it that fans dont get that players will, pretty much, never ever turn down a better opportunity, bigger club, more money?

 

Why is it that fans dont get that although our beloved club is part of who we are as individuals and we are CTID but that players are not?

[Silvio Dante]

21 minutes ago, City1970 said:

Because he foolishly believed in a rookie manager who did not reinvest wisely from the sales of Kodjia, Webster, Reid, Bryan, Kelly etc. assuming he was allowed.

He then brings in a proven manager who do not get substantial funds to invest.

It reminds me of a certain chairman who allowed the sale of Goater to Man City when in pole position for promotion and then bought McCarthy to get us over the line but failed. Should have kept Goater.

I think you’ll find we did get promoted that season.

Pesky Facts.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Of course now having got ourselves in this pickle, and it is bad as many assumed, getting out of it is even harder. We should have been maxing out the areas of non FFP performance investments for years (Academy cat 1) as we will be relying on youth development for many years to come now. Taking players from the Prem reserves looks unlikely when Palmer was on £28k a week at Chelsea (now that shows how far apart these leagues are now). Scouting and recruitment will need to be very clever. The parachute system will now completely destroy the Championship as owners (maybe like our or Stoke) cannot simply try to compete with them with cash inputs. The whole concept of the Championship is flawed, and the Prem with parachute payments and the ability to sign any talents they want with no squad size constraints (youth) makes a mockery of it all. So this is going to be a very tough period for us and many fellow sides and for some fans they have had enough of the nonsense. Not sure how this plays out, certainly not well if the structure of football is not changed. No wonder the idea of a regulator worries the Prem, and so it should. If you look at the Championship, you really can start to question what is the point. 

I’m not sure of the arguments for and against and I bet you and @Lrrrcouod go “hammer and tongs” on the subject, but…

…for me in the current climate we need to maximise getting youngsters through our Academy, whether we nab them from other Academies at the right age, or they come all the way through us.

@Mr Popodopolous Gary Glitter

[City1970]

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think you’ll find we did get promoted that season.

Pesky Facts.

Was that the season we lost at Preston on the final day and Watford won at Fulham to be champions?

[GrahamC]

28 minutes ago, City1970 said:

 

It reminds me of a certain chairman who allowed the sale of Goater to Man City when in pole position for promotion and then bought McCarthy to get us over the line but failed. Should have kept Goater.

Apart from the fact that we did “get over the line” as we finished second & went up automatically.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not sure of the arguments for and against and I bet you and @Lrrrcouod go “hammer and tongs” on the subject, but…

…for me in the current climate we need to maximise getting youngsters through our Academy, whether we nab them from other Academies at the right age, or they come all the way through us.

@Mr Popodopolous Gary Glitter

Ha that fool has found his way out of Derby then and appears on another forum- I think I can guess who he is...still those who live in Grimsby have a pretty grim existence.

A couple of those Ipswich fans don't get it either- the only real way their strategy succeeds is if they shoot up in Year 1 or 2 IMO- of course if they make good player sales that's different but they might have a year or 2 given the fundamentally different systems but if not...

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[City1970]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Apart from the fact that we did “get over the line” as we finished second & went up automatically.

It appears I got it all wrong. That must be the season we lost at Preston and Watford won at Fulham on the final day to be champions.

My memory is not what it was.

[Maesknoll Red]

39 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Of course now having got ourselves in this pickle, and it is bad as many assumed, getting out of it is even harder. We should have been maxing out the areas of non FFP performance investments for years (Academy cat 1) as we will be relying on youth development for many years to come now. Taking players from the Prem reserves looks unlikely when Palmer was on £28k a week at Chelsea (now that shows how far apart these leagues are now). Scouting and recruitment will need to be very clever. The parachute system will now completely destroy the Championship as owners (maybe like our or Stoke) cannot simply try to compete with them with cash inputs. The whole concept of the Championship is flawed, and the Prem with parachute payments and the ability to sign any talents they want with no squad size constraints (youth) makes a mockery of it all. So this is going to be a very tough period for us and many fellow sides and for some fans they have had enough of the nonsense. Not sure how this plays out, certainly not well if the structure of football is not changed. No wonder the idea of a regulator worries the Prem, and so it should. If you look at the Championship, you really can start to question what is the point. 

Maybe the European Superleague wasn’t such a bad idea, let the real moneybags clubs disappear and use it to get football in this country back in a more level footing.

[Taz]

3 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

No I don't think there is anything sinister or crocked in our accounts. 

There are just so many costs through so many layers of companies i expect its litterally operational costs wrapped up as a headline figure.  

I forgot about police costs I wonder if we still got charged for that when the gates were closed? 

Have had a look through and don't think anybody else has picked up on this, so I'll  answer it - maybe.

I work in a school, and when covid hit and started closing things left right and centre, as a school, we were still expected to pay our suppliers, or anybody that had an agreement in place already to provide a service - regardless of the fact that they were unable to provide said service.

Government advice (ha!) was that everyone should be paid as they would be normally, and that the government would reimburse us afterwards, so that we weren't out of pocket.

So, without being able to give a definite yes or no answer, on the same premise I would imagine that we as a club still had to pay for policing costs. That could well be reimbursed though.

So there's your answer. Maybe. Clear as mud really 

[Pezo]

39 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

LJ did much of the day to day "on grass" coaching.

NP does some. (more now)

Doesn't mean one is better than the other necessarily.

Completely different job titles denotes different jobs - LJ was a coach who did some management, Nige is a manager that does some coaching.

I don't think we can compare them, we would probably be better off comparing LJ Flemming but even then that doesn't make sense because Flemming is a pure coach.

The financial side and when things happen strategically should be a lot closer to Nige than it was to LJ.

[Waconda]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not sure of the arguments for and against and I bet you and @Lrrrcouod go “hammer and tongs” on the subject, but…

…for me in the current climate we need to maximise getting youngsters through our Academy, whether we nab them from other Academies at the right age, or they come all the way through us.

@Mr Popodopolous Gary Glitter

for me in the current climate we need to maximise getting youngsters through our Academy, whether we nab them from other Academies at the right age, or they come all the way through us.

Spot on and to be fair is being prioritised right now.

South Wales is a particularly healthy hunting ground for us currently.

Edited December 28, 2021 by VT05763

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, City1970 said:

It appears I got it all wrong. That must be the season we lost at Preston and Watford won at Fulham on the final day to be champions.

My memory is not what it was.

You’re right, it isn’t.

We never bought Sean McCarthy either, he was only on loan for 7 games.

I have a lot of time for him, unlike Jason Roberts (who we signed on loan at the same time but who had a row with Ward about playing for Grenada & buggered off after 3 games) McCarthy gave his best & even played in that Preston game despite his father passing away in the week. Not his fault we sold Goater, either.

Can’t imagine many loan players showing that sort of commitment these days.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Pezo said:

Completely different job titles denotes different jobs - LJ was a coach who did some management, Nige is a manager that does some coaching.

I don't think we can compare them, we would probably be better off comparing LJ Flemming but even then that doesn't make sense because Flemming is a pure coach.

The financial side and when things happen strategically should be a lot closer to Nige than it was to LJ.

LJ was a coach who did some management, Nige is a manager that does some coaching.

= perfectly described.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Someone should also tell the Ipswich fans or some of them anyway, that it doesn't matter how wealthy the owner is and the speed of monitoring has improved drastically in the last couple of years- to the extent that clubs actually have to a) Submit Projections in March and if required, submit updated versions of this in the summer- ie 2020/21 accounts in Summer 2021 or as close to these as possible.

Plus the bit about Future Financial Information- the idea behind that is in order for the whole system to be joined up, e.g. if losses exceed a certain limit they have to submit during that season, the FFP projections for the following 2 seasons- it is monitored- or should be- on an ongoing, continuous basis.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, James54De said:

Does this pose any danger to our existence? 

No- subject to SL, as long as he's happy to keep paying the cash flow, then the main danger would be the FFP issue which I believe we'll tough out through player cutbacks etc.

[City1970]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

You’re right, it isn’t.

We never bought Sean McCarthy either, he was only on loan for 7 games.

I have a lot of time for him, unlike Jason Roberts (who we signed on loan at the same time but who had a row with Ward about playing for Grenada & buggered off after 3 games) McCarthy gave his best & even played in that Preston game despite his father passing away in the week. Not his fault we sold Goater, either.

Can’t imagine many loan players showing that sort of commitment these days.

Thanks for the update, I didn’t realise McCarthy had personal loss to deal with, I’m sorry for that.

what I do remember, is that I was at that Preston game.

If I can’t remember the facts, it’s time for me to leave this forum.

[Lanterne Rouge]

13 minutes ago, Taz said:

Have had a look through and don't think anybody else has picked up on this, so I'll  answer it - maybe.

I work in a school, and when covid hit and started closing things left right and centre, as a school, we were still expected to pay our suppliers, or anybody that had an agreement in place already to provide a service - regardless of the fact that they were unable to provide said service.

Government advice (ha!) was that everyone should be paid as they would be normally, and that the government would reimburse us afterwards, so that we weren't out of pocket.

So, without being able to give a definite yes or no answer, on the same premise I would imagine that we as a club still had to pay for policing costs. That could well be reimbursed though.

So there's your answer. Maybe. Clear as mud really 

Interesting. I never knew that was the situation. Do you think it still applied to private businesses as well as `public` ones like your school?