Semenyo

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, RedZepperin said:

A measure of Antoine's success as a striker for City will be our ability to spell his surname correctly [see thread title].

How many times did you check you’d spelled Antoine correct before hitting “submit reply”

[maxjak]

20 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Today is another example of why I advocate playing him centrally.

Boy, this we miss Chris Martin though.....on defensive corners!!

Someone who we most definitely miss on defensive corners is Diedhiou....I appreciate he is long gone       , but he was excellent at defensive headers?

[RedZepperin]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

How many times did you check you’d spelled Antoine correct before hitting “submit reply”

Forgot to but managed to fluke it.

[BCFC Rich]

4 hours ago, RedZepperin said:

A measure of Antoine's success as a striker for City will be our ability to spell his surname correctly [see thread title].

I'm gong to put that down to my dyslexia!   Silly mistake to make. 

 

Apologies to Antoine Semenyo!

[BTRFTG]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Glad you’ve written off a player who turned 22 this week, and has for the first time in his career here started more than 2 consecutive games as a centre forward!

How’s “flappy” doing btw?

C’mon, give the lad a chance.

Did really well yesterday but as for give him a chance - he's had loads.

As I said I'd love him to prove me wrong but I don't think he ever will.

Remind, what's his stats to date?

18 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Are you not going to give him a childish nickname?

What do you suggest?

[BTRFTG]

18 hours ago, DaveF said:

Christ imagine just turning 22 having scored 2 fantastic goals against the best team in the league and reading this negative crap... We might as well give up completely with this attitude.

What negativity? I said he took his goals really well today. I also reminded the quality of his finishing was wholly uncharacteristic.

For us in the Championship that's 5 goals in 70 appearances. That's partly why, save others points deductions, we'd be looking at Div 1 next year.

[Johnny Musicworks]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

What negativity? I said he took his goals really well today. I also reminded the quality of his finishing was wholly uncharacteristic.

For us in the Championship that's 5 goals in 70 appearances. That's partly why, save others points deductions, we'd be looking at Div 1 next year.

So compare him to Brereton Diaz who managed 10 in his first 90 appearances it’s not so different. Some young players just need time and patience.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

What negativity? I said he took his goals really well today. I also reminded the quality of his finishing was wholly uncharacteristic.

For us in the Championship that's 5 goals in 70 appearances. That's partly why, save others points deductions, we'd be looking at Div 1 next year.

You keep ignoring how many times he’s played as a centre forward, in that set of appearances, his age at the start of those apps, his age now, etc.

 

8 goals and 11 assists in the equivalent of 44.5 games (of 90mins).

19 goal contributions in 44.5 games for a guy who not played much as a centre forward.  About 55% of his minutes are categorised as a forward.  Otherwise his rate of return is better than Paterson, not quite Eliasson though.

Id say the stats are relatively positive, and the trend shows it’s upward.

Why force yourself to declare you view of a player so young?

Edited January 16, 2022 by Davefevs

[Negan]

7 hours ago, Calculus said:

Yes, I'm sure they're thinking the same thing. Trouble is that we'd then be without them. Develop potential and then sell once they get any good ain't going to get is to the Prem anytime soon.

But it helps keep our clubs head above water. I know they said they’d rather take a points deduction than sell our best players but if Semenyo and Scott were to go, we wouldn’t be much worse off overall but a lot better off financially. Be a shame to see them go but we’re in serious need of cash coming in. Might be a painful summer window I feel. 

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, Negan said:

But it helps keep our clubs head above water. I know they said they’d rather take a points deduction than sell our best players but if Semenyo and Scott were to go, we wouldn’t be much worse off overall but a lot better off financially. Be a shame to see them go but we’re in serious need of cash coming in. Might be a painful summer window I feel. 

Problem is when you take the bright prospects away and lower our potential, you just erode season ticket renewal further. Lop another 1,000 off if those two go ...

[exAtyeoMax]

 

 

[Ska Junkie]

I'm one of those that always felt AS would be a front man but one that played off another. He showed what he can do as the centre forward yesterday and he could be an absolute star there, just needs to continue to play there and believe he can do it and we may have something quite special on our hands.

Is he a natural finisher? Maybe not at the present time but he certainly has all the attributes.

[mozo]

I wonder if Semenyo and Conway would be able to form a partnership...with Scott in behind them 

[Phileas Fogg]

On 15/01/2022 at 18:24, Bar BS3 said:

What do you think it means..?! 

Will he go on to be a top championship player, makes an impact in the PL, with his pace & power..... Or will he flatter to deceive and fail at the required level and dissappear into oblivion..? 

Not really sure, I don't like to make assumptions about this sort of thing but I'm with @And Its Smith in that the choice of players you've selected here seems a bit suspect.

Ignoring that though, Kevin Betsy is a really strange choice. His play style was nothing like Semenyo and is really different from Traore.

[Phileas Fogg]

On 15/01/2022 at 21:46, Fordy62 said:

Because they always break our hearts Phil. It’s a way of preparing ourselves.  

There is definitely something in that, it's a bit of self preservation I think. Comes across as a small club mentality to me though. 

The "enjoy him whilst he's here" attitude is really defeatist - one of my (many) forum bug-bears. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Phileas Fogg

[GrahamC]

16 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You keep ignoring how many times he’s played as a centre forward, in that set of appearances, his age at the start of those apps, his age now, etc.

 

8 goals and 11 assists in the equivalent of 44.5 games (of 90mins).

19 goal contributions in 44.5 games for a guy who not played much as a centre forward.  About 55% of his minutes are categorised as a forward.  Otherwise his rate of return is better than Paterson, not quite Eliasson though.

Id say the stats are relatively positive, and the trend shows it’s upward.

Why force yourself to declare you view of a player so young?

Plus just 34 of those were starts, 36 sub.

Some of those probably in the last 10 minutes.

I for one am happy to eat humble pie from seeing him as too raw before, if he ends the season with 7 or 8 goals it will be a good return & indicative of his trajectory.

[Clutton Caveman]

On 15/01/2022 at 17:29, joe jordans teeth said:

Think we all know he’s a proper handful with his pace and abilities,of course some will slag him off about his finishing sometimes but then it will improve with time,would much rather have him at our club than the likes of Palmer and Wells

Steve L has probably already asked for a valuation

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Plus just 34 of those were starts, 36 sub.

Some of those probably in the last 10 minutes.

I for one am happy to eat humble pie from seeing him as too raw before, if he ends the season with 7 or 8 goals it will be a good return & indicative of his trajectory.

He still is raw in many respects, but the manager and coaching staff are polishing him gradually.

[The Bard]

In time I think he could become a similar player to Michail Antonio. Powerful with very good movement.  He has an exceptionally high ceiling I think.   Where was Antonio at the same age?

If his core CF skills are improved and he becomes a more consistent finisher he will certainly make the Prem at a decent level.

[DaveF]

7 minutes ago, The Bard said:

In time I think he could become a similar player to Michail Antonio. Powerful with very good movement.  He has an exceptionally high ceiling I think.   Where was Antonio at the same age?

If his core CF skills are improved and he becomes a more consistent finisher he will certainly make the Prem at a decent level.

Same level as Semenyo, doing a decent job in the championship for Sheffield Wednesday.

[The Bard]

3 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Same level as Semenyo, doing a decent job in the championship for Sheffield Wednesday.

There we go...

[grifty]

9 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Same level as Semenyo, doing a decent job in the championship for Sheffield Wednesday.

He wasn't always a striker though was he? I swear he used to be a right back? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[Selred]

1 minute ago, grifty said:

He wasn't always a striker though was he? I swear he used to be a right back? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Think started at right wing, then moved to right back, and then back to the wing and now up top? Adaptable.

[DaveF]

7 minutes ago, grifty said:

He wasn't always a striker though was he? I swear he used to be a right back? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yeah as Selred said he's moved about a bit, looking at his goals tally I would imagine he was playing right wing then.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Yeah as Selred said he's moved about a bit, looking at his goals tally I would imagine he was playing right wing then.

Remember seeing his first at Southampton….I guess they were in Lg1 then and thinking he was unplayable at that level.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

 

I wonder if Semenyo and Conway would be able to form a partnership...with Scott in behind them on drums. 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

Think started at right wing, then moved to right back, and then back to the wing and now up top? Adaptable.

Yeah, it's only in the last couple of years that he's been played as a centre forward.

[Sleepy1968]

In EFL team of the week. Well donme Antoine.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/semenyo-named-in-team-of-the-week/

[Bar BS3]

13 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not really sure, I don't like to make assumptions about this sort of thing but I'm with @And Its Smith in that the choice of players you've selected here seems a bit suspect.

Ignoring that though, Kevin Betsy is a really strange choice. His play style was nothing like Semenyo and is really different from Traore.

Then you aren't reading my post properly..! 

I didn't at any point suggest that they any simularities in playing styles or positions - I Said, that they all had the physical attributes to be good players. 

They all had/have good height, athetisism, pace & strength. 

Traore (just a random example, demonstrates the kind of career the As could hope for. 

Betsy, on the other hand, didn't really make the most of his physical attributes and never made a name for himself above the 3rd tier. 

[exAtyeoMax]

3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Then you aren't reading my post properly..! 

I didn't at any point suggest that they any simularities in playing styles or positions - I Said, that they all had the physical attributes to be good players. 

They all had/have good height, athetisism, pace & strength. 

Traore (just a random example, demonstrates the kind of career the As could hope for. 

Betsy, on the other hand, didn't really make the most of his physical attributes and never made a name for himself above the 3rd tier. 

I understood exactly what you meant. 

[BTRFTG]

On 16/01/2022 at 17:16, Davefevs said:

Otherwise his rate of return is better than Paterson, not quite Eliasson though.

Jesus Christ. We are doomed....

I hope Semenyo scores hatfulls, he needs to to save us, but I won't put my money on it.

As for 22 being young, not in modern football it isn't. 

[DaveF]

25 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Jesus Christ. We are doomed....

I hope Semenyo scores hatfulls, he needs to to save us, but I won't put my money on it.

As for 22 being young, not in modern football it isn't. 

Save us? We're quite a long way off relegation as it stands...

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Jesus Christ. We are doomed....

I hope Semenyo scores hatfulls, he needs to to save us, but I won't put my money on it.

As for 22 being young, not in modern football it isn't. 

Believe it or not, 22 is young in modern football. The age of Players breaking through and becoming regulars has gone up, due to the physical demands of modern day football.  As is the age of players still playing, it’s got older.  In “our day”, 30 was ready for the knacker’s yard, now it’s not.

The likes of Scott are the exception.

 

[Gazred]

He was also late to the Pro game, so playing catch up a bit. Might be a year or so behind in his development compared to others that came through an academy.

[BTRFTG]

29 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Save us? We're quite a long way off relegation as it stands...

Which year?

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Believe it or not, 22 is young in modern football. The age of Players breaking through and becoming regulars has gone up, due to the physical demands of modern day football.  As is the age of players still playing, it’s got older.  In “our day”, 30 was ready for the knacker’s yard, now it’s not.

The likes of Scott are the exception.

 

 

Would you say that more promising youngsters are now being signed up by the multitude of well-financed academies?  Compared to the days of my youth, when kids who were good at the game signed "schoolboy papers" with clubs, but in practice didn't spend that much time training with the professionals. 

[BTRFTG]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Believe it or not, 22 is young in modern football. The age of Players breaking through and becoming regulars has gone up, due to the physical demands of modern day football.  As is the age of players still playing, it’s got older.  In “our day”, 30 was ready for the knacker’s yard, now it’s not.

The likes of Scott are the exception.

 

Funny that because there are dozens of players younger that in both Championship & Premier & 22 is the age City tend to drop the ones fir the future who never were.

Hopefully Semenyo is a late bloomer but his return to date in respect of both goals and assists is exactly why we are where we are.

[KegCity]

5 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Funny that because there are dozens of players younger that in both Championship & Premier & 22 is the age City tend to drop the ones fir the future who never were.

Hopefully Semenyo is a late bloomer but his return to date in respect of both goals and assists is exactly why we are where we are.

Just because he isn't Jude Bellingham doesn't mean he doesn't have a high ceiling.

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

His shots per game looks like it's gone way up (I haven't checked). I think he's been a little overawed by the Championship and Pearson has told him in no uncertain terms that his job is to get through on goal and shoot. And now we're seeing the benefit.

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Would you say that more promising youngsters are now being signed up by the multitude of well-financed academies?  Compared to the days of my youth, when kids who were good at the game signed "schoolboy papers" with clubs, but in practice didn't spend that much time training with the professionals. 

Possibly.  I think the advent of u23 football, the loan system, the demise of Reserve Teams (except the likes of Brentford B and a few others) has had an impact.

19 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Funny that because there are dozens of players younger that in both Championship & Premier & 22 is the age City tend to drop the ones fir the future who never were.

Hopefully Semenyo is a late bloomer but his return to date in respect of both goals and assists is exactly why we are where we are.

Dozens…yep.

A useful graphic to show how few minutes are played by youngsters in the Champ.

All I’m really trying to say is that Semenyo at just turned 22 hasn’t peaked yet…so not the time to form an opinion (yet) that his previous record is an indication of the future.  Not forgetting he’s late to the pro game too.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Davefevs

[Davefevs]

 

A more up to date one.

There is a suggestion that age will come down a bit because if financial pressures, e.g. like City.

[Norn Iron]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

  In “our day”, 30 was ready for the knacker’s yard, now it’s not.

 

 

Dave, I'm sure that when we signed Joe Royle, Alan Dicks said that a striker hits his prime when 29. 

That means he only had 12 months before the yard!

[Red Army 75]

Had a slow start to his city career. He must of thought he was on his way to Chelsea but it didn’t materialise. Signed his new contract but didn’t really get going. Plus injuries and his failure to score goals. But since he has come back I have been very impressed with him . His power and directness we have been crying out for. And his 2 goals against Fulham were of very high quality and showed me what he is all about. Starting to flourish under NP along with some other youngsters. No coincidence IMO

[KegCity]

21 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

His shots per game looks like it's gone way up (I haven't checked). I think he's been a little overawed by the Championship and Pearson has told him in no uncertain terms that his job is to get through on goal and shoot. And now we're seeing the benefit.

For want of better phrasing he hit the ball with anger whenever he was in front of goal last Saturday. Instead of rushing the shot or taking too long to pick a spot as he's done previously, when the opportunity for a shot arose he got the ball out of his feet, took a step and just struck the ball cleanly and hard. The way he shrugged off their centre backs and ran half the length of the pitch showed that "**** it, I'll do it myself" mentality that Harry Brooks and other coaches attribute with top players.

Whether that was a flash in the pan or the start of something exciting remains to be seen, but there's promising signs there.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Red Army 75 said:

Had a slow start to his city career. He must of thought he was on his way to Chelsea but it didn’t materialise. Signed his new contract but didn’t really get going. Plus injuries and his failure to score goals. But since he has come back I have been very impressed with him . His power and directness we have been crying out for. And his 2 goals against Fulham were of very high quality and showed me what he is all about. Starting to flourish under NP along with some other youngsters. No coincidence IMO

 

I've been critical of Antoine in the past and thought he might be playing in the wrong position, but your penultimate line hits a very good point.  Certain players just "click" with certain managers and certain types of coaching.

Antoine will be still on the curve where experience and maturity is improving him as a player every year. But the Pearson effect on his recent performances shouldn't be underestimated.

Conversely of course, there may be some players who do not like Nige and haven't bought into what he is trying to do. We probably saw most of those depart in the summer, but there may be a few still here.  Football is a game where personalities can clash and affect performance.  

[The Swan and Cemetery]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Possibly.  I think the advent of u23 football, the loan system, the demise of Reserve Teams (except the likes of Brentford B and a few others) has had an impact.

Dozens…yep.

A useful graphic to show how few minutes are played by youngsters in the Champ.

All I’m really trying to say is that Semenyo at just turned 22 hasn’t peaked yet…so not the time to form an opinion (yet) that his previous record is an indication of the future.  Not forgetting he’s late to the pro game too.

I can forgive our previous failings if SL confirms that his number one objective to previous management, was to ensure our age chart resembled a graduation ceremony in a pendulum factory. 

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

Just because he isn't Jude Bellingham doesn't mean he doesn't have a high ceiling.

Until Saturday judgement of height has been one of his main weaknesses, though could be he's watched Weimann to closely in training for whom the crossbar could never be high enough.

[BTRFTG]

48 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Dave, I'm sure that when we signed Joe Royle, Alan Dicks said that a striker hits his prime when 29. 

That means he only had 12 months before the yard!

Well, for the 6 months after he signed he proved to be 'prime' City striker material, never nearer than nodding acquaintance with the Onionbag.....

[KegCity]

40 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Until Saturday judgement of height has been one of his main weaknesses, though could be he's watched Weimann to closely in training for whom the crossbar could never be high enough.

Very weird stick to beat our top goal scorer with but each to their own. Yep, Semenyo's been guilty of leaning back as he shoots but that certainly wasn't the case on Saturday. Said my piece on his finishes in another post:

1 hour ago, KegCity said:

For want of better phrasing he hit the ball with anger whenever he was in front of goal last Saturday. Instead of rushing the shot or taking too long to pick a spot as he's done previously, when the opportunity for a shot arose he got the ball out of his feet, took a step and just struck the ball cleanly and hard. The way he shrugged off their centre backs and ran half the length of the pitch showed that "**** it, I'll do it myself" mentality that Harry Brooks and other coaches attribute with top players.

Whether that was a flash in the pan or the start of something exciting remains to be seen, but there's promising signs there.

As you've made extremely clear this doesn't necessarily mean he's turned a corner, but from a purely technical POV his performance on Saturday displayed everything you want from a top forward.

[Davefevs]

49 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Well, for the 6 months after he signed he proved to be 'prime' City striker material, never nearer than nodding acquaintance with the Onionbag.....

Yep, he scored 4 on debut, a hatrick v Cov on Boxing Day, and another 12 goals in 120-odd games!

[Norn Iron]

32 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, he scored 4 on debut, a hatrick v Cov on Boxing Day, and another 12 goals in 120-odd games!

And the best game I ever saw Joe play for us was as a makeshift centre-half at Notts Forest. His heading was exemplary. Never mind his 4 goal debut (I was there) but Joe should've been converted into a full time centre back.

[BTRFTG]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, he scored 4 on debut, a hatrick v Cov on Boxing Day, and another 12 goals in 120-odd games!

Royle was a childhood hero of mine when at Everton (my mother wrote to him to get me his autograph,) so was made up when rumoured he was coming to AG.

Memory fails and I know he signed in the November though had thought on debut he played via a special 'loan' arrangement. I recall there was a last minute hitch with the paperwork with doubt he could figure on the Saturday, so after he scored the 4 everybody was desperate to make sure the signing was ratified.  Pretty sure he didn't score more than that for the remainder of the season (the Cov hat-trick match being the season after 'the fix'.)

Not doubting your stats but if true, those two games aside, that's 9 in 118, hence my comment.

[Denbury Red]

Can anyone change the title of this thread so Antoine’s name is spelled correctly!  It’s so annoying seeing this every time I look at threads!

SEMENYO!!

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, he scored 4 on debut, a hatrick v Cov on Boxing Day, and another 12 goals in 120-odd games!

Nov 25th 1977 - in a 4-1 win over Middlesborough.

My first ever City game. I think we finished 17th that season (77-78), which was a good result after the previous season.

[Sleepy1968]

7 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Nov 25th 1977 - in a 4-1 win over Middlesborough.

My first ever City game. I think we finished 17th that season (77-78), which was a good result after the previous season.

This happended before I'd attended my first game. But it started my Bristol City scrapbook. I'm sure I remember making the 'glue' out of flour and water.

[Davefevs]

35 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Nov 25th 1977 - in a 4-1 win over Middlesborough.

My first ever City game. I think we finished 17th that season (77-78), which was a good result after the previous season.

@BTRFTGi didn’t start going until 78.  My first game was Liverpool (1-0 Royle shanked volley), my second game was Coventry a few weeks later on Boxing Day (5-0 Royle hatrick).  It wasn’t until some years later I looked at his stats and saw how poor they were bar those 2 games and his debut!

I slightly exaggerated his appearances though!

[Red Army 75]

 

[phantom]

On 19/01/2022 at 13:36, Denbury Red said:

Can anyone change the title of this thread so Antoine’s name is spelled correctly!  It’s so annoying seeing this every time I look at threads!

SEMENYO!!

Sorted

[Davefevs]

Haven’t listened yet.

re Nige’s interview, it seems him and @BTRFTGare more aligned on ages of players  breaking into the first team (doffs cap) and holding down a spot.  Nige says 18/19….I think a bit older.  In my defence, as per my “one loan too many” article, I am definitely an advocate of at least finding out early whether they can swim straight away or not.  In the past we haven’t given players a chance early enough.  I do believe that players like Benarous have benefitted from training daily as part of the first team group, let alone playing.

[BTRFTG]

31 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Haven’t listened yet.

re Nige’s interview, it seems him and @BTRFTGare more aligned on ages of players  breaking into the first team (doffs cap) and holding down a spot.  Nige says 18/19….I think a bit older.  In my defence, as per my “one loan too many” article, I am definitely an advocate of at least finding out early whether they can swim straight away or not.  In the past we haven’t given players a chance early enough.  I do believe that players like Benarous have benefitted from training daily as part of the first team group, let alone playing.

The only bright thing about this season is the kids he's played. Are they good enough? I don't know. But by next season they'll have had a good few games under their belt, hopefully the likes of promising Pring will have ironed out his needless and costly challenges. If they haven't progressed I'm sure they'll be offloaded.

I think Pearson calls kids brilliantly, gives them a chance, as it should be. None of this early 20's 'one for the future' rubbish.