Good inciteful article.

[Waconda]

Especially the last couple of paragraphs.

It all leads to us selling at least two of Bentley, HNM, Scott and Semenyo by the looks of it.

Nigel Pearson's transfer claims and possible signs of a cultural divide emerging at Bristol City - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

Edited March 9, 2022 by VT05763

[View from the Dolman]

Not sure how the Post stirring up violence makes for a good article but whatever floats your boat... 

[Thornbury Red]

Unfortunately that article is spot on. Wells and Palmers future with us is surely key? If we can move them on then maybe only need to sell one of the three youngsters. If not then maybe all three will have to be sacrificed.

[Sir Geoff]

...or even insightful.

[Son of Fred]

42 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Especially the last couple of paragraphs.

It all leads to us selling at least two of Bentley, HNM, Scott and Semenyo by the looks of it.

Nigel Pearson's transfer claims and possible signs of a cultural divide emerging at Bristol City - Bristol Live (bristolpost.co.uk)

HNM for sure....

Scott is the only one of that group I'd be desperate to cling to.

[SBB]

13 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

...or even insightful.

Usually you’d be correct but given who the OP is…..

[Jeez]

Didn’t think article was particularly insightful, just a long winded re shuffle of thoughts on here.

[Davefevs]

As usual, an excellent article from James Piercy.

Think some of the proof in the pudding will be how the team perform (and the results fair too) over the coming weeks with a few of players back from injury and once they are fully up to speed.  James wasn’t on Saturday, or certainly didn’t look sharp.  Was Massengo on the bench because he needed a rest, had his form just tipped over the edge in the last game or so?

With Atkinson back, Tanner in the coming weeks hopefully, we may get a good opportunity to assess better.

I suspect summer plans are already well in motion….but at this stage predicting a tough summer.

[GrahamC]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As usual, an excellent article from James Piercy.

Think some of the proof in the pudding will be how the team perform (and the results fair too) over the coming weeks with a few of players back from injury and once they are fully up to speed.  James wasn’t on Saturday, or certainly didn’t look sharp.  Was Massengo on the bench because he needed a rest, had his form just tipped over the edge in the last game or so?

With Atkinson back, Tanner in the coming weeks hopefully, we may get a good opportunity to assess better.

I suspect summer plans are already well in motion….but at this stage predicting a tough summer.

Yep, my only caveat to the article would be that as Pearson, Gould & the recruitment set up know all of this, we should be planning now with realistic, affordable targets.

I did have a wry smile at NP’s comment that we “don’t have a defensive midfielder on our books” following my suggestion of Pack, who seems increasingly to fit the bill to me, plus as you know the player I mentioned to you that I think would be suitable to solve the RB issue is probably available & definitely is affordable.

Coventry, Luton, Millwall & Preston all operate within similar recruitment constraints, I appreciate that they don’t have the drag of Palmer or Wells on their wage bill, but whilst making every effort to shift them, we need to have a plan as to how we conduct our transfer business if we can’t.

Final point, even with Simpson gone there are still a few others who are out of contract this summer, so some room to make changes whatever happens.

Edited March 9, 2022 by GrahamC

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, View from the Dolman said:

Not sure how the Post stirring up violence makes for a good article but whatever floats your boat... 

Yes didn't realise, not an intentional Freudian slip, honest.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

HNM for sure....

Scott is the only one of that group I'd be desperate to cling to.

We’re clearly going to lose players this summer and to me Semenyo is the one I’d like to see stay at AG. He’s improving all the time and as a striker his value will just increase. He’s the most value asset we have  imv.

Pring is another who I’d like see next season. Like AS he’s getting better and better with his value increasing. Another season in the Championship would not only benefit him but City as well.

 

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As usual, an excellent article from James Piercy.

Think some of the proof in the pudding will be how the team perform (and the results fair too) over the coming weeks with a few of players back from injury and once they are fully up to speed.  James wasn’t on Saturday, or certainly didn’t look sharp.  Was Massengo on the bench because he needed a rest, had his form just tipped over the edge in the last game or so?

With Atkinson back, Tanner in the coming weeks hopefully, we may get a good opportunity to assess better.

I suspect summer plans are already well in motion….but at this stage predicting a tough summer.

Massive issue now with attracting players we need within a tight budget.

Club seen as a mess in football circles most probably, the media coverage of our financial peril (rightly or wrongly)  coupled with the results and table position are not going to put us very far up the preferred destinations of many players or agents (not good ones anyway).

Can't see many decent Championship players looking to join another probable season of flirting with relegation, when there will plenty of better offers from others.

We need to be careful of not falling into the trap of swapping perceived "dead wood" for actual "dead wood" - Simpson for example.

All this leads me to think we will have to sell at least two of our "prized" assets, giving NP an actual real budget to work with.

Edited March 9, 2022 by VT05763

[Waconda]

1 hour ago, SBB said:

Usually you’d be correct but given who the OP is…..

Any chance you can "pop" me on ignore. 

Would save you seething whilst sat in your cubicle.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

Not sure how the Post stirring up violence makes for a good article but whatever floats your boat... 

 

Oh I don't know, some of the huge sums wasted on salaries ..

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thought maybe one prize asset sold to stay within financially? About to read the article.

Would be well not happy but see it as acceptable if that combined with restraint in the market gave some genuine room to move in Summer 2023 if we stay up.

[Red_Alligator]

Good article. Must admit I'm concerned about how the summer may pan out for us. So much work still to be done.

[phantom]

4 hours ago, View from the Dolman said:

Not sure how the Post stirring up violence makes for a good article but whatever floats your boat... 

When someone constantly looks for a reason for a dig at Pearson they will share anything

[supercidered]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

As usual, an excellent article from James Piercy.

Think some of the proof in the pudding will be how the team perform (and the results fair too) over the coming weeks with a few of players back from injury and once they are fully up to speed.  James wasn’t on Saturday, or certainly didn’t look sharp.  Was Massengo on the bench because he needed a rest, had his form just tipped over the edge in the last game or so?

With Atkinson back, Tanner in the coming weeks hopefully, we may get a good opportunity to assess better.

I suspect summer plans are already well in motion….but at this stage predicting a tough summer.

To be honest I'm predicting a tough Spring!

That isn't a veiled dig at NP either as he still has my full support. Just want us to get safe asap and then hope the powers that be have not only a plan but a plan that they are able to execute.

 

[Dredd]

Surely if we want to rebuild then we need to sell two. One to give us a buffer in FFP figures, and one to provide some spending money?

[glynriley]

2 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Surely if we want to rebuild then we need to sell two. One to give us a buffer in FFP figures, and one to provide some spending money?

Lot's depends on the situation with Wells, Palmer and possibly Kalas. Massive amounts of wages tied up with those 3, and if a couple were to leave, we have a bit more wiggle room.

The dream scenario is for a couple (preferably the first 2) of those to go, and get some sell on money from the likes of Webster/Brownhill/Kelly. Then we'll have a better chance of hanging on to our promising youngsters, though if I'm honest, I don't think we have a hope in hell of keeping Scott. Just hope we can negotiate a season long loan as part of the transfer. The boy is destined for big things.

 

[Waconda]

25 minutes ago, phantom said:

When someone constantly looks for a reason for a dig at Pearson they will share anything

An article from our local paper that is a very well balanced piece but yet still "triggers" you, very strange.

[Waconda]

9 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Surely if we want to rebuild then we need to sell two. One to give us a buffer in FFP figures, and one to provide some spending money?

My thoughts exactly.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Lot's depends on the situation with Wells, Palmer and possibly Kalas. Massive amounts of wages tied up with those 3, and if a couple were to leave, we have a bit more wiggle room.

The dream scenario is for a couple (preferably the first 2) of those to go, and get some sell on money from the likes of Webster/Brownhill/Kelly. Then we'll have a better chance of hanging on to our promising youngsters, though if I'm honest, I don't think we have a hope in hell of keeping Scott. Just hope we can negotiate a season long loan as part of the transfer. The boy is destined for big things.

 

There will hopefully be opportunities to loan Wells and Palmer out for the season at least with us paying around half their wages but even that would save £10k a week each !

[Sturny]

Maybe a bit controversial. But I'm kinda predicting us to come out of the summer window with a smaller possibly weaker squad. I think we're in for a rough ride. 

I think it's clear to see we've got youth talent playing well at this level that'll attract interest. They'll go if enough is offered. I don't have much faith in this club's ability to replace them well enough. 

However, if we can hold onto those bright shines of light players we have I will feel more optimistic. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Sturny

[KegCity]

Think Bentley, Kalas and Massengo will go in the summer. If Webster or Kelly move as well and we can shift Wells/Palmer we're looking ok.

[Oh Louie louie]

I noticed you have used a incredbile hulk analogy eddie.

I dont like a movie analogy.

Dont make me angry eddie, you wouldnt like me when in angry.....

[KegCity]

1 minute ago, Sturny said:

Maybe a bit controversial. But I'm kinda predicting us to come out of the summer window with a smaller possibly weaker squad. 

I think it's clear to see we've got youth talent playing well at this level that'll attract interest. They'll go if enough is offered. I don't have much faith in this club ability to replace them well enough. 

However, if we can hold onto those bright shines of light players we have I will feel more optimistic. 

That's my worry. All well and good looking to cash in on the youngsters and build a squad but I've got very little faith in us spending that money wisely.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

Think Bentley, Kalas and Massengo will go in the summer. If Webster or Kelly move as well and we can shift Wells/Palmer we're looking ok.

It is actually quite possible that a few things fall our way in the Summer and we end up bringing in £50 million in fees, sell ons and cut costs.

Fingers crossed.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

That's my worry. All well and good looking to cash in on the youngsters and build a squad but I've got very little faith in us spending that money wisely.

Need someone in like Steve Walsh badly, relying on the "old boys network" leads to the signing of deadwood, mostly.

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Need someone in like Steve Walsh badly, relying on the "old boys network" leads to the signing of deadwood, mostly.

If Steve Walsh was coming he’d have been here by now.

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

If Steve Walsh was coming he’d have been here by now.

You may be wrong though.

But my point is if not him then someone like him, NP states often he doesn't deal with agents and therefore it follows he can't lead on transfer dealings and needs help (lots of it).

This position is the most important appointment of the next 2 years I would think.

 

[Sturny]

I'm still not convinced by the no-loan policy it seems NP has? Our best league finish we had some first team loanees, was it Kalas and Dasilva?

Those two were fantastic that season. Without those two I'm not convinced we would've finished so high. There is just some calibre of players we will never reach without using the loan system. Can't deny the loan system has been somewhat good to us over the years it feels like. 

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Sturny

[supercidered]

10 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Need someone in like Steve Walsh badly, relying on the "old boys network" leads to the signing of deadwood, mostly.

Our recruitment has been so bad, I would take Louis Walsh as things stand!

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, VT05763 said:

You may be wrong though.

But my point is if not him then someone like him, NP states often he doesn't deal with agents and therefore it follows he can't lead on transfer dealings and needs help (lots of it).

This position is the most important appointment of the next 2 years I would think.

 

Of course I could be, but Pearson has been here over a year now, Dave Rennie joined him last summer & Curtis Fleming early this season, so my hunch is that if we were seriously trying to bring Walsh here, then it would have happened by now.

I agree with your other point but have no idea if it is the owner, the chairman, Gould or Pearson who seems reluctant to act, it could be a combination of those people, too.

[Bris Red]

22 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

It is actually quite possible that a few things fall our way in the Summer and we end up bringing in £50 million in fees, sell ons and cut costs.

Fingers crossed.

I think you are right and I’d imagine the bean counters have told the board as much and they have everything crossed we can bring in £50 mill or there abouts this summer.

[Mr Popodopolous]

42 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Surely if we want to rebuild then we need to sell two. One to give us a buffer in FFP figures, and one to provide some spending money?

Might depend on some or all of ) The size of the hole to be filled b) How much we would get for one- £15-20m would give us breathing room and enable a bit to spend c) Webster, Kelly, Brownhill sell on fee potential d) How much we want to 'save' this year if we get a windfall and go for in 2023/24 assuming we are still at this level when the wage bill etc really will start to clear.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just read the article- good analysis, feels like tough choices might need to be made this summer.

[Oh Louie louie]

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

Nope but they might and a player wanting to move may force their hand.

But yes not a given by any means.

[Show Me The Money!]

Does anyone know what the state of our scouting network is at present and does all off it come under FFP spending as well.

We need to come to terms now with the fact that we won’t be able to complete due to our FFP but our general turnover with other champ teams. Until we become a mid 30k sized club we can’t compete for top level players so we need to build the dogs dodars scouting network.

We’ve been attracting higher level players over other champ teams paying silly wages. Now we are in the poop and ok we aren’t going down this year but are going to be with the favourites for relegation next year

[GrahamC]

19 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

If Burnley get relegated & there is Prem interest in Brownhill, then all the best to them in trying to get him to stay.

FWIW I think a strategy of expecting sell on clauses is flawed, far better that they are a happy bonus.

[Oh Louie louie]

Bournemouth got kelly to stay.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

24 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Does anyone know what the state of our scouting network is at present and does all off it come under FFP spending as well.

We need to come to terms now with the fact that we won’t be able to complete due to our FFP but our general turnover with other champ teams. Until we become a mid 30k sized club we can’t compete for top level players so we need to build the dogs dodars scouting network.

We’ve been attracting higher level players over other champ teams paying silly wages. Now we are in the poop and ok we aren’t going down this year but are going to be with the favourites for relegation next year

Pretty sure scouting costs come under P&S/FFP- maybe not youth but in general it does.

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

FWIW I think a strategy of expecting sell on clauses is flawed, far better that they are a happy bonus.

Very much this! It's not a great strategy- it could resolve our issues if it crystalises but it, and you could say the same about transfer profits to offset losses and a higher wage bill is also a questionable choice.

Brownhill, Burnley probably financially could afford to keep but how it played out in reality...?

Oh yeah, the sell on clause thing- Birmingham, the other BCFC fell foul of that very scenario in 2018...they had overspent to 2018 but forecast that Butland would go for a big money move after Stoke went down and Gray for a moderate move in summer 2018- never materialised, and the rest spoke for itself.

I assume and hope that we are going to be more prudent than to rely on sell on clauses this summer if it comes to it.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sleepy1968]

19 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

I'd think there are lots of triggers that result in the sale of players. For example - player nearing contract term and not going to re-sign, a club offers above market value for your player, player is blocking what you deem to be better prospects, change in playing philosiphy (player no longer a good fit), fall out with player, you've arranged a good deal to sign a player in the same position  ...

[Dastardly and Muttley]

25 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

What happened to Chris Wood or Ben White?

If a bigger club wants any of those clubs’ players, they’d be gone.

Unless we hit the heights of a Premier League winning side, we’ll be a selling club. Every one is.

[maxjak]

20 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Bournemouth, burnley, brighton, dont need to sale.

We should remember this,

If Bournemouth don't go up........and Burnley come  down...that may change?  Brighton also sold White ,so a big bid may tempt them?  I appreciate it is conjecture, but neither you or I have any idea of the state of their respective finances, also the type of contract each of those players have signed?  So the statement "Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton don't need to sale" (Sell?) means nothing.

[Oh Louie louie]

Just look how many ifs, and it they go downs etc.

Look at the nicky marnard transfer.

Crewe thought they were in for 20 pc of any profit.

6 million was cited.

Didnt quite work out.

 

 

[Oh Louie louie]

If bournemouth needed to sale, would have been over the last two years.

I cant see that one on the menu this year.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, VT05763 said:

An article from our local paper that is a very well balanced piece but yet still "triggers" you, very strange.

Certainly doesn't "trigger" me, as I post a variety of different opinions and topics, unlike others that are tunnel visioned with their singular posts

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

If Steve Walsh was coming he’d have been here by now.

Plus, Pearson said in his pre-Birmingham presser we wouldn't be making a new appointment in the summer, just tweaking the existing structure.  

Sadly. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Of course I could be, but Pearson has been here over a year now, Dave Rennie joined him last summer & Curtis Fleming early this season, so my hunch is that if we were seriously trying to bring Walsh here, then it would have happened by now.

I agree with your other point but have no idea if it is the owner, the chairman, Gould or Pearson who seems reluctant to act, it could be a combination of those people, too.

We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent.  Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one).

For info, the Recruitment Team lead the recruitment process, but there are many “stakeholders” in that process, e.g. Scouts, Manager, CEO, CFO.

Pearson has said he’s worked under various different models in his time, and that he’s adaptable.  As it stands the likes of Gould and Gilhespy are the people facing off to agents.  He has no need to.  His current role is to have a relationship with the player, if required, e.g. speak to the player about why he wants him, how he fits in, etc.

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

What we do have is a model that allows Pearson to have as much input into the process as he needs to.

[numbeast]

Sell on clauses are like doing a Euromillions lucky dip on a £100,000,000 roll over, you don't expect it to materialise but  you hope it does come in come in. Our plans should be based on what we can control like how much we would demand for Scott or Semenyo or, given his contract situation, how much we can get for Massengo. 

As a club we are, at the moment, a financial mess. Selling off our prized assets and trimming off the dead wood on the wage budget looks to be the only options to restore us to an acceptable financial level. No one likes to see their best players sold and especially so just to balance the books that have been mismanaged or to overcome the effects of the pandemic but this is the real world and as it stands that is what will be required. Let's hope we can uncover some gems like those we have to sell.

[Oh Louie louie]

I dont think hans fee will touch the sides.

Again, if he decides to run his contract down, we get zero.

If we get 6 million its a result.

[DaveF]

6 hours ago, Sturny said:

I'm still not convinced by the no-loan policy it seems NP has? Our best league finish we had some first team loanees, was it Kalas and Dasilva?

Those two were fantastic that season. Without those two I'm not convinced we would've finished so high. There is just some calibre of players we will never reach without using the loan system. Can't deny the loan system has been somewhat good to us over the years it feels like. 

 

I don't think Pearson has a no loan policy, it just has to be a suitable deal that improves the team at the right price.

[Merrick's Marvels]

4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent.  Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one).

 

But does Gould have this skillset, I wonder - compared to, say, a Steve Walsh or an Ian Pearce who are both proper "football men" with insider knowledge and a "been there, done that" t-shirt to match?

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

But does Gould have this skillset, I wonder - compared to, say, a Steve Walsh or an Ian Pearce who are both proper "football men" with insider knowledge and a "been there, done that" t-shirt to match?

We will find out

[Merrick's Marvels]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We will find out

Yep! We've a lot to lose if it turns out he hasn't.

[GrahamC]

4 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I dont think hans fee will touch the sides.

Again, if he decides to run his contract down, we get zero.

If we get 6 million its a result.

People keep saying this, but it is utter bollocks.

Han is 20, so if we offer him a new deal then we would be entitled to compensation for him even if he turned it down, because he’s under 24.

[bpexile]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We will find out

I think that with his history the odds are in our favour but not a certainty just as everything else in life (except the usual Death & Taxes).

[Waconda]

8 hours ago, phantom said:

Certainly doesn't "trigger" me, as I post a variety of different opinions and topics, unlike others that are tunnel visioned with their singular posts

Like this one.

[Shuffle]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

People keep saying this, but it is utter bollocks.

Han is 20, so if we offer him a new deal then we would be entitled to compensation for him even if he turned it down, because he’s under 24.

If he moved abroad does compensation still apply? Know it’s yes if he went to a team in England but thought it was free if abroad.  

[Waconda]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We have an operating model that doesn’t require the manager to deal with the contractual / financial bits of the process, i.e. the bit of the negotiation with the Agent.  Those aren’t the skillset of a most football managers to be fair, and much more in the domain of the CEO (or HoR if we had one / needed one).

For info, the Recruitment Team lead the recruitment process, but there are many “stakeholders” in that process, e.g. Scouts, Manager, CEO, CFO.

Pearson has said he’s worked under various different models in his time, and that he’s adaptable.  As it stands the likes of Gould and Gilhespy are the people facing off to agents.  He has no need to.  His current role is to have a relationship with the player, if required, e.g. speak to the player about why he wants him, how he fits in, etc.

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

What we do have is a model that allows Pearson to have as much input into the process as he needs to.

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

If he moved abroad does compensation still apply? Know it’s yes if he went to a team in England but thought it was free if abroad.  

Yep.

Rangers had to pay compensation for a signing from an English club.

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

Thanks for the insight 

[DaveF]

21 minutes ago, VT05763 said:

Players are very rarely involved in any contract negotiations.

Agent - "Club A have put a bid in for you, are you interested in going there ?"

Players - "Yes possibly, see what deal you can get me and I will see if I like it"

 

Are you involved in the industry?

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep.

Rangers had to pay compensation for a signing from an English club.

Joe Aribo!

@Shuffleyou hacking my DMs to Graham?

[Waconda]

24 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Thanks for the insight 

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

Davefevs insight actually but you are welcome.

[Waconda]

24 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Are you involved in the industry?

We also heard recently that even the player (Massengo’s contract in this case) isn’t always involved, i.e. it’s his agent and the club talking not player and manager.

Davefevs quote, you asking him the same question ?

[Oh Louie louie]

Graham i hate to break it to you.

compo would be peanuts.

I just read rangers paid 300k compo for him.

Is this correct?

[Oh Louie louie]

So we are relying on teams, going up and down,

Then, expecting them to sell their best players.

As for thinking compo will get us out a hole.

I cant help thinking perhaps, we need to be a little bit more pragmatic in our outlook.