How long has Pearson got left?

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, Colemanballs said:

I'm by no means in the Pearson out camp, but I do doubt that Luton's squad should be 20 points better than ours.

Correct 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

Yep our squad is better than Lutons, ask any professional coach.

The difference in performance and points gained is virtually all down to the coaching, training, tactics, man management, team selection.

Less cyber world football fanalyst and more "real world" football study.

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

No insult a suggestion because you state that Lutons squad is better than ours.

Something isn't right, I suggest you watch more actual live football, coaching sessions etc.

What we have is a blinkered view on how good our current management team and coaching set up is.

[hertsexile]

I believe Pearson is doing a good job with limited resources. Times are tough in football at the moment and cash flow in most clubs in the championship is tight unless you have parachute payments. The development of our young players under Pearson has been good to watch. 
Given time I am sure Pearson will develop a squad worthy of challenging for a top six place. 
 

[JoeAman08]

49 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Quick thing, cant remember the thread, nor the poster, but putting it here. 

Someone said that Bentley coming back into the side has messed up our game. 

Bents has been on fine form since his return, so not getting where the issue is

Id disagree and say it's James's return that has messed things up Scott has been naff since, and it's utterly messed the pivot or busy bees of our counter attack. 

Not sure what he adds tbh. 

I didn't see much pre Xmas, but post he's had one good game and that's it. 

Not seen it myself either. Preferred King when fit. Not that it is great either way but James here another 1?2? seasons. Not looking smart business. We didn’t need a James or King. Still lacking that holding midfielder. NP has mentioned this recently which fills me with less confidence in what he wants to recruit. 

 

13 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Well that certainly makes things clear.

All makes sense now.

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It does doesn’t it. Team in 4th vs team in 18th, 20 points between them.

You gonna tell me you think City’s squad is better?

no wonder you put everything negative down to Pearson. All clear now. 

I think there is an in between here. If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing. 
 

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 
 

Now should it be 20 points and 16 places or whatever it is? Imo no. One manager is maximising his squad while another is quite frankly underachieving. Set aside staying up, points totals and positions. Why have we continually leaked goals? Why have continually dropped points after the 90th min? Why have we not won 2 games in a row in the entire spell under NP? You can 100% place blame on the squad but not most of it in my opinion. This has been a massive failing from the coaching staff.

I can’t help but feel we are a dying side that has lucked out this season with points deductions and teams coming up with no income from the previous season. It should not feel this bad. There is a good championship XI in that squad but NP and co have not found the solutions. Getting too much credit for using young players. Couldn’t drop Atkinson fast enough. As soon as James is back Massengo is gone. Scott was can’t miss and does him no favours moving him everywhere 2-3 times a game. Semenyo was already established like Massengo. Benarous and Bell a small handful and Cundy because Kalas got injured. 
 

I could keep going on but I don’t feel NP is the answer. We had enough to be in that mix from 3-16. We just recruited poorly with what little we had and did not play a brand of football that suits the championship. Now looking like we will need to rely on another season of Weimann playing to a level he never has before. Martin staying fit for 40 games. Atkinson Cundy and Tanner making a massive jump and fending off interest for Scott and Semenyo. Fear for 22/23

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Not seen it myself either. Preferred King when fit. Not that it is great either way but James here another 1?2? seasons. Not looking smart business. We didn’t need a James or King. Still lacking that holding midfielder. NP has mentioned this recently which fills me with less confidence in what he wants to recruit. 

 

I think there is an in between here. If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing. 
 

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 
 

Now should it be 20 points and 16 places or whatever it is? Imo no. One manager is maximising his squad while another is quite frankly underachieving. Set aside staying up, points totals and positions. Why have we continually leaked goals? Why have continually dropped points after the 90th min? Why have we not won 2 games in a row in the entire spell under NP? You can 100% place blame on the squad but not most of it in my opinion. This has been a massive failing from the coaching staff.

I can’t help but feel we are a dying side that has lucked out this season with points deductions and teams coming up with no income from the previous season. It should not feel this bad. There is a good championship XI in that squad but NP and co have not found the solutions. Getting too much credit for using young players. Couldn’t drop Atkinson fast enough. As soon as James is back Massengo is gone. Scott was can’t miss and does him no favours moving him everywhere 2-3 times a game. Semenyo was already established like Massengo. Benarous and Bell a small handful and Cundy because Kalas got injured. 
 

I could keep going on but I don’t feel NP is the answer. We had enough to be in that mix from 3-16. We just recruited poorly with what little we had and did not play a brand of football that suits the championship. Now looking like we will need to rely on another season of Weimann playing to a level he never has before. Martin staying fit for 40 games. Atkinson Cundy and Tanner making a massive jump and fending off interest for Scott and Semenyo. Fear for 22/23

Agreed

[Waconda]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What we have is a blinkered view of how good some of our players are.

Those players we deem to be so good can’t do it week in week out, which most likely means they aren’t as good as you think.

Please don’t resort to insults either.

 

Interesting read -

The Dangers of Football Statistics - The False NineThe False Nine

Should be used for support info and sieving of potential recruits only.

Never to lead.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

If you looked at the squads on paper the day before the first game, I think many opposition fans outside the two clubs would say city have a stronger squad. Certainly more names championship fans are used to seeing

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Luton have recruited much better though for championship football in 2022. They have generally signed young strong players with something to prove. That makes a massive difference. 

Yep, as Joe Royle said - recruitment, recruitment, recruitment.

Our recruitment has been sub-standard for too long.  The financial situation has not made it easy at all, narrows the pool….but there are nuggets out there.  We need to find them, more of them.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, as Joe Royle said - recruitment, recruitment, recruitment.

Our recruitment has been sub-standard for too long.  The financial situation has not made it easy at all, narrows the pool….but there are nuggets out there.  We need to find them, more of them.

Now this I agree with.

Do we have a recruitment department currently ?

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Interesting read -

The Dangers of Football Statistics - The False NineThe False Nine

Should be used for support info and sieving of potential recruits only.

Never to lead.

Sorry???  What are you insinuating?

That i unearth players by looking at data?  Ha ha.  Nice one.  Completely wrong.

You were trying to insult me.  Thought so, Thanks.

[Waconda]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

Yes agreed but I was talking about squad not team.

Our team has obviously been far worse than Lutons.

For example playing a 19 year old centre forward at right back will not help the team but there were other options in the squad.

Players "banished" from the squad therefore no help to the team.

 

[Waconda]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Sorry???  What are you insinuating?

That i unearth players by looking at data?  Ha ha.  Nice one.  Completely wrong.

You were trying to insult me.  Thought so, Thanks.

No insult at all, a difference of opinion on the value of stats in a professional sport.

You post unchallenged stats on here constantly and some are relevant and some are not.

Don't get upset because I have a different opinion to you, if you feel insulted I apologise.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

No insult at all, a difference of opinion on the value of stats in a professional sport.

You post unchallenged stats on here constantly and some are relevant and some are not.

Don't get upset because I have a different opinion to you, if you feel insulted I apologise.

You don’t really read my posts then is all I can say.

[DaveInSA]

It's all got a bit heated on here hasn't it

Here's my perspective.

Luton are better in every way than us. The have a balanced squad, who play to a system, are well drilled, and play as a team.

We have, a bit part team of talented individuals, who are inconsistent and prone to individual errors.

@Davefevs, you have a stat or two I am sure. I'd love to know how many points we have lost due to individual errors, and also how many points we could have lost on xGoals from individual errors. For example, HNM back pass against Middlesborough at home, should clearly have been a goal, but a magical save from Bents.

Bottom line is the players don't have the mentality and they're not a cohesive unit. Refer to the point above and the number of late goals we've given away.

We also talk about progress. Losing 3-2 away at a team of premier league players, with a toe in the door is an improvement on losing 2-0 at home and being comprehensively outplayed?

 

 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Now this I agree with.

Do we have a recruitment department currently ?

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

[DaveF]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

Surely you've learnt not to bite at the trolling posts by now...

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

So what is the good championship 11 you describe . Where would your 11 finish , to make it a good 11 . 
 

What recruitment options were presented last summer ? 
 

Playing 3 at the back is not what is needed at championship , that is true , but how could we have played a 4 ? Who ? Please explain .
 

Multiple opposition managers have clearly stated we are now a substantially different proposition compared to earlier in the season .  

That is nice of them to say but we still ship 2-3 goals a game. We are still often second to 50/50 balls. We still don’t force opposition mistakes. 
 

There is a myriad of different options we could have used at times this season. NP has rarely experimented looking for an answer. Kalas hasn’t been used at RB where we have had problems. Are 2 of Cundy Klose and Atkinson not enough to play in a 4? Pring has flaws but is your standard championship player. Lacks a bit of technique and perfect positioning. Makes up for it with pace, power and workrate. Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring looks a solid back 4. 
 

In midfield, one of our best performances was a midfield of Benarous, Scott and Massengo against Coventry. I’ll concede we lost but we haven’t seen that trio since which I find strange considering Coventry are quite the side to perform as well as they did. The provided the effort and more importantly the athleticism to get around the pitch. All while being very composed on the ball. Ideally we’d have a true defensive midfielder instead of all 3 but we don’t. Instead we seem insistent on making Matty James work despite him not being able to get around the pitch. 
 

Up front, we had one of our best spells of the season in terms of performances in January. If I am not mistaken it coincided with Martin moving to the bench. Also perhaps O’Leary going in goal. Yet, he had one good performance against Cardiff(after weeks off) and has been an ever present since. Why have we not tried Wells more often? From everything coming from the club, he is training well. Requesting some u23 minutes and being a good influence. Sometimes I feel like he has been cast aside because the previous regime gave him a wage which NP disagrees with. Feel like it is a stubborness. 
 

So there you have it

O’Leary

Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring

Benarous Scott Massengo

Weimann Wells Semenyo

 

Hell, idk if that gets us more or less points. My point is we haven’t tried many different things. The squad was here to be used for an entire season. NP was reluctant to try things to get us out of ruts. He has not used the squad to 100% of its capabilities which imo is inexcusable for a side barely picking up a point per game

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You already know the answer to that, so I’m trying to work out the relevance of your question?

It's a serious question that you might have the answer for, I know there was a limited one last Summer. 

Has it been improved to your knowledge, are there plans in place for the Summer.

As you state "our recruitment has been sub standard for too long".

 

[JoeAman08]

32 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Perhaps, but that's just a case of "I haven't heard of player X therefore he can't be as good as another player I have heard of" rather than an opinion based on knowledge of the qualities of the players concerned.

Plus of course it doesn't follow that having better individuals guarantees having a better team. Our problem in recent years has been signing lots of individuals rather than building a team.

Oh I agree but it is why there will be people who say we should definitely be better than a Luton or Millwall. I never thought this was a promotion squad but not sure even the most optimistic could see Luton or Blackburn occupying top 6 spots for a large portion of the season.
 

My point is outside 2 teams at the top and really 2-3 teams at the bottom, everyone is in the same mix really. For us to be adrift from the majority of the division I think is a failure. Mind you the gap is only 7-8 points. I think performance wise however we have been even further than that in reality. Hope that made sense 

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

It's all got a bit heated on here hasn't it

Here's my perspective.

Luton are better in every way than us. The have a balanced squad, who play to a system, are well drilled, and play as a team.

We have, a bit part team of talented individuals, who are inconsistent and prone to individual errors.

@Davefevs, you have a stat or two I am sure. I'd love to know how many points we have lost due to individual errors, and also how many points we could have lost on xGoals from individual errors. For example, HNM back pass against Middlesborough at home, should clearly have been a goal, but a magical save from Bents.

Bottom line is the players don't have the mentality and they're not a cohesive unit. Refer to the point above and the number of late goals we've given away.

We also talk about progress. Losing 3-2 away at a team of premier league players, with a toe in the door is an improvement on losing 2-0 at home and being comprehensively outplayed?

 

 

You’re right.

I also wonder what the reaction would have been on here if we’d brought in Cameron Jerome last summer…

Recruitment is tricky & for me since Keith Burt left us it seems to have been either badly mismanaged by Ashton & his cronies or completely neglected.

I cannot believe Pearson is happy with our current recruitment set up but whether he is or not, someone at the club at the top, whether that is the owner, chairman, CEO or manager (or all 4 of them) seem unwilling to remedy it.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Waconda said:

It's a serious question that you might have the answer for, I know there was a limited one last Summer. 

Has it been improved to your knowledge, are there plans in place for the Summer.

As you state "our recruitment has been sub standard for too long".

 

Depends how you define a recruitment team. Nigel confirmed again the other day that we don't plan to bring in a head of recruitment.

He also rather pointedly said that he wasn't part of the recruitment team. Quite what to make of that, if anything, I don't know.

[Sheltons Army]

51 minutes ago, Waconda said:

No insult a suggestion because you state that Lutons squad is better than ours.

Something isn't right, I suggest you watch more actual live football, coaching sessions etc.

What we have is a blinkered view on how good our current management team and coaching set up is.

You really are an arrogant plum arn’t you

I think anyone reading Daves analysis and football points would realise he has a significant more understanding about the game than you do , a lot of it down to lengthy analysis work etc 

Do you have much of a background in the game ?

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Depends how you define a recruitment team. Nigel confirmed again the other day that we don't plan to bring in a head of recruitment.

He also rather pointedly said that he wasn't part of the recruitment team. Quite what to make of that, if anything, I don't know.

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

2 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You really are an arrogant plum arn’t you

I think anyone reading Daves analysis and football points would realise he has a significant more understanding about the game than you do , a lot of it down to lengthy analysis work etc 

Do you have much of a background in the game ?

Professionally, yes.

[chinapig]

Just now, Waconda said:

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

Watch the pre-match press conference, those were his very words. He didn't seem to like being asked about the subject. Which may be just him being grumpy (as if) or may be more significant. Who knows?

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Watch the pre-match press conference, those were his very words. He didn't seem to like being asked about the subject. Which may be just him being grumpy (as if) or may be more significant. Who knows?

Strange,

[frenchred]

Just now, Waconda said:

Strange,

Just Pearson distancing himself from any blame whatsoever.....................Again!

[Sheltons Army]

12 minutes ago, Waconda said:

He has to be part of the recruitment team, surely ?

Professionally, yes.

Please tell us more 

 

* You’re not Jon Lansdown are you

Edited April 3, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I completely agree. 20 points, no way.  But I still think they have a better squad than us.

 

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, harrys said:

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

Yes.

[Waconda]

9 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Just Pearson distancing himself from any blame whatsoever.....................Again!

Harsh, actually feel bad for him if he is being excluded.

If it his choice however, what does that mean ?

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, harrys said:

All about opinions, personally I think we have a much better squad than our league position suggests but there is obviously something amiss, I’ve made no secret out of the fact that I don’t rate Pearson and feel we would of been better off with managers who have gone to other clubs in the last nine months (Forest, Boro, PNE, Swansea) but we’ll never know, as I said it’s all about opinions 

We might well have been.  Wilder and Cooper wouldn’t have chosen City over their respective clubs though.  Martin or Lowe, who knows.  Both PNE and Swansea far better financial outlook than City too.

I’ve said all along that I think we’ve needed the experienced football man with the younger man alongside him. No idea whether Pearson would work like that or not, but LJ definitely missed having someone (football person) as the buffer between him and Ashton.

[frenchred]

7 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Harsh, actually feel bad for him if he is being excluded.

If it his choice however, what does that mean ?

Hopefully it.means he is off

[Waconda]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We might well have been.  Wilder and Cooper wouldn’t have chosen City over their respective clubs though.  Martin or Lowe, who knows.  Both PNE and Swansea far better financial outlook than City too.

I’ve said all along that I think we’ve needed the experienced football man with the younger man alongside him. No idea whether Pearson would work like that or not, but LJ definitely missed having someone (football person) as the buffer between him and Ashton.

Agree with this mostly. You don't know Wilder or Cooper wouldn't have come to us but that is a decent guess. 

Lowe was the man for us - IMO

Wonder if we did sound him out at all ?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Hopefully it.means he is off

More likely he doesn't want to do any of the work in the recruitment process.

Gives them a list and says get me some of these perhaps ?

Or phones players he already knows, directly, hence no need for a recruitment department.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Waconda

[Davefevs]

It’s quite possible Lowe was the un-named 4th man along with Cook, Hughton and Holden who got to the 2+ interview stage.  The fact that he was in a job might be the reason that no news / rumours came out.

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

It’s quite possible Lowe was the un-named 4th man along with Cook, Hughton and Holden who got to the 2+ interview stage.  The fact that he was in a job might be the reason that no news / rumours came out.

Yep at that time he must have been in the equation you would have thought.

I think he could have been ideal for us but we will never know.

Hughton should have done more research !

[Finley_Smith10]

Think it’s still mental how we haven’t managed back to back wins this season. This season has been pretty dire tbh. Hopefully we’re so much better next season 

[TV Tom]

14 minutes ago, Finley_Smith10 said:

Think it’s still mental how we haven’t managed back to back wins this season. This season has been pretty dire tbh. Hopefully we’re so much better next season 

Can’t see us being any better next season than this or last season

[JoeAman08]

5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Thanks for the reply , I understand some of your points but struggle to agree with someof it .

I don’t mind your defence line up , but when has that defence actually been available to us ? Atkinson was injured , Klose not at the club for most of the season and now Kalas injured . But without injuries I would choose the same . But up to now we have had little chance to try it . We have not had a right back for 6 months . 
 

interested in your keeper choice , as I agree . Not sure many others do mind . You say Pearson did not try anything , yet dropping Bents caused melt down here . I feel both are poor at crosses , Bents a better shot stopper but Max transformed our okay from the back. So much quicker , and got us in the front foot . Bents is very slow and we have been laboured since he cane back .

Midfield, no real issue either , but it is young and learning . A lot of that learning is thanks to Pearson trying things and learning who has it .

up front , Wells is ok for me but blows hot and cold and has great limitations to his game . He works well in a particular situation but that’s it . AW is similar too , but his game seems better suited to what we are going to do .

I am not really against what you say as such but you seem to disregard  that many of your choices come from NP doing what you accuse him of not doing . So I am confused . You want to blame him for everything yet disregard the very positive aspects you ask for .

bear in mind cultural and mentality changes are not overnight , but it is happening and is what we lost after the L1 team got binned . This season has also been about finding out who can or cannot meet the standards . It sets a blueprint going forward . Everyone in the squad has had a chance , some have taken it , others not. 
 

So I appreciate your comments , but NP is actually doing what you advocate . So it’s hard to grasp . You just don’t like him , that’s fine too . But he is working on delivering exactly what you describe . We will be a 4-3-3 squad , with a commitment from all to deliver a team result , built on a lot of youth development. 

I don’t mind Pearson. Actually think he is trying to do the right things sorting the club out. Just not sure he is up to the training and tactics bit. I don’t think it would happen but if you said he was some sort of DoF or consultant and we recruited someone else for the head coach role I would like for him to stay in that capacity. 
 

But I just felt he has been reluctant to change things that haven’t been working. And I just don’t see any parts of play we can hang our hats on going into next season. But I also can see the be patient standpoint. How massive of a hole did he inherit? Maybe I underestimate the task he has taken on. Mind you I think it was massive but wanted to see more progress as the season went on. 
 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is nice of them to say but we still ship 2-3 goals a game. We are still often second to 50/50 balls. We still don’t force opposition mistakes. 
 

There is a myriad of different options we could have used at times this season. NP has rarely experimented looking for an answer. Kalas hasn’t been used at RB where we have had problems. Are 2 of Cundy Klose and Atkinson not enough to play in a 4? Pring has flaws but is your standard championship player. Lacks a bit of technique and perfect positioning. Makes up for it with pace, power and workrate. Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring looks a solid back 4. 
 

In midfield, one of our best performances was a midfield of Benarous, Scott and Massengo against Coventry. I’ll concede we lost but we haven’t seen that trio since which I find strange considering Coventry are quite the side to perform as well as they did. The provided the effort and more importantly the athleticism to get around the pitch. All while being very composed on the ball. Ideally we’d have a true defensive midfielder instead of all 3 but we don’t. Instead we seem insistent on making Matty James work despite him not being able to get around the pitch. 
 

Up front, we had one of our best spells of the season in terms of performances in January. If I am not mistaken it coincided with Martin moving to the bench. Also perhaps O’Leary going in goal. Yet, he had one good performance against Cardiff(after weeks off) and has been an ever present since. Why have we not tried Wells more often? From everything coming from the club, he is training well. Requesting some u23 minutes and being a good influence. Sometimes I feel like he has been cast aside because the previous regime gave him a wage which NP disagrees with. Feel like it is a stubborness. 
 

So there you have it

O’Leary

Kalas Klose Atkinson Pring

Benarous Scott Massengo

Weimann Wells Semenyo

 

Hell, idk if that gets us more or less points. My point is we haven’t tried many different things. The squad was here to be used for an entire season. NP was reluctant to try things to get us out of ruts. He has not used the squad to 100% of its capabilities which imo is inexcusable for a side barely picking up a point per game

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson as a combo when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping it, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable, unflashy strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together. In fact, what our team needs now is more glue, a heck of a lot more glue. 

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Waconda]

4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together.

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

You give players games and experience. Pearson has a free hit to play young players for match day experience and try them outside of their comfort zone, much like LJ and Bobby Reid. You know that you’re a professional. 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

You give players games and experience. Pearson has a free hit to play young players for match day experience and try them outside of their comfort zone, much like LJ and Bobby Reid. You know that you’re a professional. 

Comedy gold.

[Eastred]

5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

And loans are Free right? We are on the verge of an FFP deduction if we don’t sell in the next window and that may still happen.  I don’t know what Forests books look like but I will guess about as tidy as ours (he said ironically)

I guess Pearson  would say I’ve been doing this thirty years! This is what works in the long term and anyway this is the mandate I’ve been given.

The fact is we have given Massengo Atkinson Scott Cundy Benerous Pring et al game time that adds significantly to their value. Good luck to Forest but if they don’t make it they will just keep on spending the way Ashton did!

 

 

 

I didn’t say loans are free. We all agree the squad needs money spent on it next season, unless you believe this team is good enough to move up the table. To avoid a potential FFP issue, and no one on this forum knows exactly whether it will be an issue, we will have to sell. Loans will be a cheaper way than paying transfer fees. 

Just because someone has been in their job for 30 years doesn’t actually mean they’re still any good at it. A lot of people in business and sport are trading on their name. Pearson is one of those along with Steve Bruce. 
 

If Pearson was prepared to engage with agents he would be a good DoF mentoring a younger coach, but that’s not going to happen

[redsquirrel]

and why not?, the kid was playing really well at the time,no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it. its been a weird season and i think a lot of the inconsistencies  could be down to being comfortably placed in the table for the best part of it. not like every point was crucial if you understand what im  trying to say.(not very well i agree)

[Galley is our king]

Another question-

Just how long has this bloody thread got left? 

[Waconda]

1 minute ago, redsquirrel said:

and why not?, the kid was playing really well at the time,no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it. its been a weird season and i think a lot of the inconsistencies  could be down to being comfortably placed in the table for the best part of it. not like every point was crucial if you understand what im  trying to say.(not very well i agree)

Don't disagree with most of this apart from -

no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Another question-

Just how long has this bloody thread got left? 

well if you keep adding to it....quite long

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Eastred said:

I didn’t say loans are free. We all agree the squad needs money spent on it next season, unless you believe this team is good enough to move up the table. To avoid a potential FFP issue, and no one on this forum knows exactly whether it will be an issue, we will have to sell. Loans will be a cheaper way than paying transfer fees. 

Just because someone has been in their job for 30 years doesn’t actually mean they’re still any good at it. A lot of people in business and sport are trading on their name. Pearson is one of those along with Steve Bruce. 
 

If Pearson was prepared to engage with agents he would be a good DoF mentoring a younger coach, but that’s not going to happen

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

[Waconda]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

Never been keen on loans, for every Fleck you get a Kent.

Needs to be a player who really wants to come on his own terms, not shunted here for experience. I think is the key.

Can be done but very detailed work needs to be done in recruitment now more than ever.

[Eastred]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Not necessarily.  Depends on who you’re after.  Balogun allegedly cost Boro £1m loan fee and 15% of his £40k p.w wages for a 20/22 week loan in January.  It’s fair to deduce from our published accounts that Mawson and Sessegnon cost £750k in loan fees last season (don’t know the split), plus their wages.

Buying a player, and spreading the cost of the fee over the term of the contract can be cheaper, plus you have a player that can be sold too.

What we do need to be is smart with any player we recruit, whether loan or permanent signing.

 

I can’t see us being smart with recruitment whilst Pearson is here. This is a man whose wasted a wage with Danny Simpson, and whilst Tanner is one for the future, it can be argued the best signing he’s made is Wiemann- who was with us already!

Perhaps the best investment we can make is paying off Pearson from some of the proceeds of our younger players!!!

[redsquirrel]

31 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Don't disagree with most of this apart from -

no harm in trying him there to see if he could do it

i admit to not being up on the tactical side of things but i thought it was a better shout than AW when pearson did that, someone did it with korey smith a few years ago, memory not to good but think that went ok.  appreciate your point though  when we had already had JD over there with Pring on the left

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

i admit to not being up on the tactical side of things but i thought it was a better shout than AW when pearson did that, someone did it with korey smith a few years ago, memory not to good but think that went ok.  appreciate your point though  when we had already had JD over there with Pring on the left

Apologies but I was replying to the potential long term damage to the confidence of a very young player being put in such horrendous situation.

It was a needless thing for the manager to do.

This is what pre season friendlies are for.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Waconda said:

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Yet played a 19 year old centre forward at right back in a Championship game despite having other options available to him.

That "real world" you mean ?

Which he also did against Boro (which we won), Coventry (it was 1-1 when Bell was subbed off) so it isn’t like this was some random whim.

People always omit the bit of the story that doesn’t fit, I’d see Bell as a wide forward, rather as a CF, too.

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

If you seriously think that 11 gets us higher up the table then you're in need of psychiatric help. 

Or perhaps your amateur analysis is superior to the proven professionals we employ. Who knows.

Of course we're all frustrated by the season we've had, by the inconsistency, by the glacial pace of progress. But...

O'Leary? If the opposition get a decent shot on target, it goes in. Unlike if Bentley is in goal - to blame his distribution on the team's lack of fluidity in possession is nuts - what about the 10 outfield players??? The idea Kalas has the mobility to play how modern full backs are required to - up and down, up and down - is a nonsense. Never mind the fact, if he had played RB this season, it would have fatally weakened central defence as the options there would have been what exactly? No Baker, Atkinson unavaible for long periods, Klose only been here 5 minutes. Vyner???? The non centre back Pring??? You pick Klose and Atkinson as a combo when in fact they've only been available to Pearson in the last couple of weeks when - guess what - he's picked them! That naive midfield will get bullied, bossed and run all over the show. And with no-one up front who's any good at actually getting hold of the ball and keeping it, those 3 players make a useless combination. Chris Martin is no-one's idea of Lionel Messi but his unfashionable, unflashy strengths are the sort of glue that holds every team together. In fact, what our team needs now is more glue, a heck of a lot more glue. 

Enjoy your Football Manager. 

Nigel Pearson lives in the real world.

Kalas has played rb in a promotion side. Mobility? he is the quickest player in the side. We played our best football with O’Leary. Funny still shipping 2-3 goals with Bentley. He has made no difference with triple the wages. 

That midfield has given us the best midfield display we have had all season. We’d be a much better watch and no worse off. 

Also are you suggesting we need more Chris Martin’s? If so I think you need the mental help mate. It is the likes of James and Martin that make us so easy to play against. James can’t cover ground in midfield and no one is afraid of Martin closing down. The fact you are slating Kalas’ mobility and bigging up Martin screams 0 football IQ but hey ho you aren’t the only one on here without a clue

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Hey who knows . I think he would change many things but has had to live with what he inherited . I saw a big change when Simpson and Downing left for example . I don’t think , my opinion zero fact , he has the coaching or recruitment set up he would  choose either . He is constrained on many levels . Not that I think he is perfect , but I do feel the club was an amateur basket case and changing it is not overnight . I like that we are trying to get back to attributes we last saw with the GJ and SC teams . Hungry players with something to prove . 
IMHO we will see coaching changes this summer

. I remain concerned that the essential area of recruitment is not being updated to the required level . This is the one area we have been found wanting in . No idea Who decides this , but someone needs to own up to the fact our recruitment has been sub standard and a plan is in place . This is beyond Pearson and is a club strategic area . I have yet to see anything to suggest we have instigated anything  innovative in the area of recruitment. 

We will see what happens. Think someone said NP has said he isn’t involved in recruitment? I think maybe a bit false with Simpson, James and King but you’d like him to be able to have a major say in who is coming in. I mean he has cast aside plenty this season. That is not a negative but he clearly has a type he favours so if we are signing any players this summer with our limited funds he needs to be heavily involved. It is all going to be on his shoulders anyway. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think someone said NP has said he isn’t involved in recruitment?

They misquoted him.  He said he didn’t work in the Recruitment Team - he did not say that he wasn’t involved in the recruitment process.  He most certainly is.

[real_bristol]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

The fall?

Autumn

[tin]

As and when NP does leave, ask yourself what structure will be left behind? SL has done nothing to appoint sporting director, the recruitment team has stood still, and we’ll need a whole new medical and coaching team once again. We’ll be in a better place on the pitch, but I bet managers wouldn’t be queueing up to join the Mary Celeste.

At the very least, SL’s had a golden opportunity to tap into NP’s experience and structure the football club from the ground up. Instead, he uses him like a firefighter. Not much will change on the pitch while the Lansdowns are involved IMO. 

As ever, I’m content with this season as it’s been bang on with my lowly expectations given the constraints. It’s not been perfect but it not been the disaster many doom merchants make it out to be either.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, tin said:

As and when NP does leave, ask yourself what structure will be left behind? SL has done nothing to appoint sporting director, the recruitment team has stood still, and we’ll need a whole new medical and coaching team once again. We’ll be in a better place on the pitch, but I bet managers wouldn’t be queueing up to join the Mary Celeste.

At the very least, SL’s had a golden opportunity to tap into NP’s experience and structure the football club from the ground up. Instead, he uses him like a firefighter. Not much will change on the pitch while the Lansdowns are involved IMO. 

As ever, I’m content with this season as it’s been bang on with my lowly expectations given the constraints. It’s not been perfect but it not been the disaster many doom merchants make it out to be either.

When you put it like that, it makes you wonder whether he might walk at some point.  

[cityloyal473]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

When you put it like that, it makes you wonder whether he might walk at some point.  

Is the most likely scenario IMHO. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, tin said:

As and when NP does leave, ask yourself what structure will be left behind? SL has done nothing to appoint sporting director, the recruitment team has stood still, and we’ll need a whole new medical and coaching team once again. We’ll be in a better place on the pitch, but I bet managers wouldn’t be queueing up to join the Mary Celeste.

At the very least, SL’s had a golden opportunity to tap into NP’s experience and structure the football club from the ground up. Instead, he uses him like a firefighter. Not much will change on the pitch while the Lansdowns are involved IMO. 

As ever, I’m content with this season as it’s been bang on with my lowly expectations given the constraints. It’s not been perfect but it not been the disaster many doom merchants make it out to be either.

Don’t fret

We will have full continuity with Jon Lansdown overseeing affairs (When he’s not in Bermuda)

[Riaz]

All about how we start next season. If we are not top half after 10-15 games, i think it will be time for a change.

I've wrote off this season, but we should expect to see more progress, specifically becoming more difficult to beat, early next season.

Otherwise, it will be too long without any real progress

[Mendip City]

3 minutes ago, Riaz said:

All about how we start next season. If we are not top half after 10-15 games, i think it will be time for a change.

I've wrote off this season, but we should expect to see more progress, specifically becoming more difficult to beat, early next season.

Otherwise, it will be too long without any real progress

Agree that’s exactly what will happen. There’s been no real progress to date. I think there are reasons and there will be reasons next season - for a start I can see us potentially losing all of: Baker, Kalas, Weimann and Semenyo. I don’t trust our/Pearson’s recruitment. 
 

To be honest, regardless who is manager I just feel we’re on a slow slide to relegation (history repeating itself yet again). We’ve lost direction and identity. In terms of spirit, identity, style of play, how far are we from the team Cotts got promoted - feels like a distant memory and different football club. 

[Gert Mare]

He needs to be able to invest. Without investment he has to work with what he has at his disposal.

We lack quality and strength in depth which enables us to compete at the top end of the championship.

It doesn’t matter who is in charge, expecting anything more with what we have got is unrealistic.

 I think we have done well just to avoid the drop considering the lack of funds available.

I would have expected nothing from Saturday’s game, but we lost by a fine margin. To lose by the odd goal against the quality of opposition that we were up against isn’t bad. It was always going to be a very difficult game.

I think that we could be facing a points deduction next season and there won’t be a lot of cash available for investment. I envisage another season of struggling and replacing Nigel Pearson with someone else won’t make the blindest but of difference. 

The mentality is improving within the squad and I fear that a change could undo that work. It’s going to take a long time to get this club on the right footing and looking at the results in the here and now is just a small part of a much bigger picture that we need to accept needs a hell of a lot of work behind the scenes.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Gert Mare

[Daniro]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

When you put it like that, it makes you wonder whether he might walk at some point.  

When he made that comment about being bored of saying the same things and how the fans must be bored of hearing him saying the same things,  I did start to wonder and worry.    I don't love Nige as much as I did,  but  he's done an alright job given the mess he inherited and I don't think he or any one else wants to go through  yet another miserable damp squib of a season where so few of the players seem to be prepared / capable of putting back to back solid performances.

We just  have to hope that he and Gould have struck up enough of a relationship and that SL backs them to get on with some smart transfer business over the Summer.     I'm not desperate to hang on to any of the current squad really, although it would be nice to hang on to the Academy stars for another year and make some more £££ later.   They should be able to make a few quid , offload some cost and get some fresh faces in.       We really need much more sense of team pulling together rather than a bunch of ill fitting individuals.

As far as the Lansdowns are concerned,  we have enough data going back enough years to be able to make an assessment of their ability to make decisions about football related matters.     We are where are because of their judgements.    They should now be encouraged to restrict their activities to signing cheques and spending more of their tax free billions on football rather than real estate or rugby.   

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, Riaz said:

All about how we start next season. If we are not top half after 10-15 games, i think it will be time for a change.

I've wrote off this season, but we should expect to see more progress, specifically becoming more difficult to beat, early next season.

Otherwise, it will be too long without any real progress

Think it’s worth waiting to see what the squad looks like at the start of next season before setting your stall out.  We still have costs still to cut, we have high earners who it won’t be easy to move on.  If we can shift the right players and recruit smartly, then I agree…but that’s a huge “if” sitting here today.

[Riaz]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think it’s worth waiting to see what the squad looks like at the start of next season before setting your stall out.  We still have costs still to cut, we have high earners who it won’t be easy to move on.  If we can shift the right players and recruit smartly, then I agree…but that’s a huge “if” sitting here today.

Yeah i get all that - but this season, with some decent defenders, we have been very easy to score against. Regardless of who we bring in, i wanna see improvement in that area - i want us to become more gritty and difficult to play against. With the defenders he has now and has the option to keep, plus a couple more, i feel like he should be able to achieve at least that.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Yeah i get all that - but this season, with some decent defenders, we have been very easy to score against. Regardless of who we bring in, i wanna see improvement in that area - i want us to become more gritty and difficult to play against. With the defenders he has now and has the option to keep, plus a couple more, i feel like he should be able to achieve at least that.

Yep, often it’s what’s happening in front of them though that can be the problem.

At the start of the season I thought we were hard to break down, but lacked much flair.  Had Semenyo been available then, might things have been different?  I dunno, but it would’ve allowed us to not flog Martin.

Ah well, 6 games to go then a summer of hope and expectation as well as worries and concerns in equal measure.  That’s what following Bristol City is like.  Just renewed my season ticket. Arghhhh!