"Worst side in the League"

[Mr Popodopolous]

Had missed this one but browsing the Bristol Post briefly, some interesting- salty and sour grapes another that springs to mind- comments by Michael O'Neill.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nigel-pearson-bristol-city-stoke-6974884?int_source=nba

Seemingly told his players that they had lost vs 'the worst side in the League'.

O'Neill I've always considered to be a bit of an arse tbh, also has a forked tongue- "I enjoy the challenge of FFP" when selling both big Tangible Assets and signing loanees that they have post Parachute Payments.

Good to see NP biting back.

We are a bit of a bogey team for them tbh, or have become one- 5-1-2 in the League since they came down plus a relatively comfortable win in the Cup in 2017/18.

Doesn't reflect terribly well on players or manager to lose- twice- to the 'worst side in the League'.

He also strikes me as somewhat of a moaner about refs.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Bard]

Obviously Dean Holden told him 'when I left they were the worst team in the league' and his drink-addled memory has played tricks on him.

[Northern Red]

Maybe he reads the match threads on here.

[BS3City]

Have a bit of patience, he might have had a few "drinkies" when he said it.

Same as when he was done for drink driving a few years back...

[robin for life]

We are not the worse, but we are one of the worse. The league table doesn't lie and without Derby and Reading's point deductions we would be relegation contenders this season, there is no doubt about that. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@robin for life We would be contenders yes but then as I said elsewhere they got points docked for a reason- the obvious counterfactual is that if everyone else, us included were able to overspend to the same level would we be relegation contenders- or would we at least be about where we are now? I'd suggest yes probably about the same.

Look at it another way, they are allowed to just get away with the expenditure and in Derby's case additionally possibly gaining an advantage via administration and restructuring debts shafting creditors in full and reforming as if nothing ever occurred- that disadvantages every other club who played within the rules and I include Stoke in that as it stands. I'm perfectly comfortable with the deductions and reasons for them. Anything else would constitute an unfair sporting advantage to Derby and Reading.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, BS3City said:

Have a bit of patience, he might have had a few "drinkies" when he said it.

Same as when he was done for drink driving a few years back...

Just googled it- didn't know that but so he did!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Actually on topic, don't see us as the worst side in the League. Bottom 3rd, bottom 6 yes but acceptable as we are going through a tough transitional phase.

[Slippin cider]

Bristol post is utter trash anyway….

[Mr Popodopolous]

Can't actually find it anywhere else tbh, just yet- but I assume it's an accurate reflection of his quotes and that of O'Neill.

Stoke local paper which probably took it from ours or similar or vice versa but without doing a huge trawl I can't find the quotes easily.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

44 minutes ago, robin for life said:

We are not the worse, but we are one of the worse. The league table doesn't lie and without Derby and Reading's point deductions we would be relegation contenders this season, there is no doubt about that. 

This gets trotted out a lot, there are 5 sides below us once points deductions get taken into account. Reading would still be below us.

There is a reason why they got them, they cheated, for those who think Derby are unlucky, well they only stayed up last season because another side (Sheffield Wednesday) got one.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

This gets trotted out a lot, there are 5 sides below us once points deductions get taken into account. Reading would still be below us.

There is a reason why they got them, they cheated, for those who think Derby are unlucky, well they only stayed up last season because another side (Sheffield Wednesday) got one.

Granted and true although we would still be involved in a relegation scrap along with Birmingham, Hull, Reading and possibly even Cardiff- but do agree- and yes they both got points docked for a good reason.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Red Army 75]

Thanks for the 6 points Stoke who couldn’t score against us. Cry more you salty ball bag 

[TammyAB]

We're probably the 2nd or 3rd worst at the moment so he isn't far off

[Sleepy1968]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Can't actually find it anywhere else tbh, just yet- but I assume it's an accurate reflection of his quotes and that of O'Neill.

Stoke local paper which probably took it from ours or similar or vice versa but without doing a huge trawl I can't find the quotes easily.

Yep. Reach plc is the common denominator here. I sometimes wonder whether there is a real local paper left in this country. Maybe there's one in Royston Valley?

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

We're probably the 2nd or 3rd worst at the moment so he isn't far off

The table even without points deductions says 5th or 6th worst, probably.

[Sleepy1968]

Is it just mean, or does anyone else think Dean Holden and Micheal O'Neill look like they could be related?

[Bazooka Joe]

Surely losing twice to the alleged "worst side in the league" makes Stoke City officially the worst side in the league.

 

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The table even without points deductions says 5th or 6th worst, probably.

Stop using facts to win the argument.

I mean just because there are no metrics whatsoever to back up that opinion doesn’t mean they’re wrong, does it?

Form table, last 6 games we are 19th, last 8 games, 18th.

Clearly 2nd or 3rd worst..

Edited April 20, 2022 by GrahamC

[cidercity1987]

I actually think we are the worst or one of the worst teams, we just happen to have a bit of individual quality in Semenyo, Weimann to have kept us ticking the points over

[RedRoss]

I'm not just being negative but think he has a point. We've been fortunate Weimann and to a lesser degree Martin and Semenyo have produced important goals to keep us afloat. In terms of how we've played throughout the season we've been second best against a large majority of teams.

[steveybadger]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Had missed this one but browsing the Bristol Post briefly, some interesting- salty and sour grapes another that springs to mind- comments by Michael O'Neill.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nigel-pearson-bristol-city-stoke-6974884?int_source=nba

Seemingly told his players that they had lost vs 'the worst side in the League'.

O'Neill I've always considered to be a bit of an arse tbh, also has a forked tongue- "I enjoy the challenge of FFP" when selling both big Tangible Assets and signing loanees that they have post Parachute Payments.

Good to see NP biting back.

We are a bit of a bogey team for them tbh, or have become one- 5-1-2 in the League since they came down plus a relatively comfortable win in the Cup in 2017/18.

Doesn't reflect terribly well on players or manager to lose- twice- to the 'worst side in the League'.

He also strikes me as somewhat of a moaner about refs.

Somebody else moans about refs tbf, very close to home.

[REDOXO]

The fact we are top of the blowing shit tonnes of points in the last ten minutes league should tell us something? 

To explain to one or two. In order to blow the points we do actually have to have scored and taken the lead.
 

Therefore over a season we are doing some things well initially! Thus we are in fact the worst team in the league in the closing stages, but definitely not for most of the match. 
 

Despite hearing some weekend/post match garbage, it would appear that we are not leaking late goals like we have. The two guys that were playing non league football are developing assisted by Klose. Williams and James are getting games and Desilva is showing up. There is a lot of upside going into the close season after yet another injury ravaged season. I would suggest more effort needs to be made toward why we so disproportionately get medium/long term injuries, but the upside of giving our youngsters games is clear. 
 

The club have set Pearson a task over a three year period and I would certainly say that I see more upside for us than Stoke for the next two seasons. 

[TV Tom]

The three strikers have kept us up with their 35 goals and numerous assists, out of the 18 teams that are going to be left in this division and the three coming down from the premiership I’d imagine the bookies will have us as the favourites to be relegated, hopefully the three that come up will struggle 

[Mr Popodopolous]

19 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Somebody else moans about refs tbf, very close to home.

Nowhere near as much- NP has hit out at refs what twice, perhaps 3 times this season. O'Neill is a worse culprit I'd say.

Google "Michael O'Neill" "Referee"

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[milo1111]

19 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I actually think we are the worst or one of the worst teams, we just happen to have a bit of individual quality in Semenyo, Weimann to have kept us ticking the points over

I know where you are coming from but we’ve been on the end of some shocking refereeing decisions as well mind so it is a valid counter argument that we should have another 6 or 7 points at least in the bag.

[Sir Geoff]

52 minutes ago, TammyAB said:

We're probably the 2nd or 3rd worst at the moment so he isn't far off

Haven't looked at the form table but with 5 points from 9 I highly doubt it.

[ExiledAjax]

Last I checked Semenyo, Weimann and Martin are part of our team. Therefore if they are good, part of our team is good. Thus the exclusion of their excellence cannot be used to support an argument that our team is the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league.

Edited April 20, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[REDOXO]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Last I checked Semenyo, Weimann and Martin are part of our team. Therefore if they are good, part of our team is good. Thus the exclusion of their excellence cannot be used to support an argument that our team is the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league.

Exactly. The same shite arguments are given, with what if scenarios, to justify attacks on the obvious party.
 

As for next season who the hell knows! The idea that we will be awful and promoted clubs better be terrible are around on a number of threads. 
 

The average supporter has no clue what is going to happen. Most latch on  to statements regarding finance and what we may/may not have to spend and are already crying about season tickets (the usual at this time of the season) or just whining we are doomed!

We Are Not!!

We will need to be canny with signings ( A massive change from the Ashton era), but there will be a dearth of out of contract players. We will almost certainly need to sell two or three in view of finance and contract scenarios, but that just makes us the same as 80% of the clubs in the division . 

The constant theme of we are not as good as club x/y/z who are smaller than us and are doing better is the usual shout and has some justification. However we are moving away from pour The clubs money down the toilet model on  ‘clubs in the ******* bag’ to a slimed down, bring your players through and actually get players that make your first team squad better model. 
 

These things are just facts. Remember last season Barnsley made the play offs this season they are relegation fodder. Obviously not a sustainable business model is it? City are actually now trying to build a sustainable squad from the resources we have, not trying to spend millions on players that clog up the treatment room because they can’t get match fit as they are barely on the pitch model. 
 

 

 

 

[cityexile]

Moaning about where we would be without other teams points deductions is just the high level ‘we would have lost that game if their player had not been sent off and we did not get a penalty’. I mean, sure, but dems the rules.

Can well see next year being difficult again, but  it think we will be alright.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by cityexile

[Packman]

39 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Last I checked Semenyo, Weimann and Martin are part of our team. Therefore if they are good, part of our team is good. Thus the exclusion of their excellence cannot be used to support an argument that our team is the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league.

Exactly, it's like saying Liverpool wouldn't be that good if they didn't have Salah, Mane and Jota. But they have so what's your point. Bizarre argument.

[cidercity1987]

59 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Last I checked Semenyo, Weimann and Martin are part of our team. Therefore if they are good, part of our team is good. Thus the exclusion of their excellence cannot be used to support an argument that our team is the worst, or even one of the worst, in the league.

Team to me seems to mean something entirely different to individuals. 

Are Man U a good team, no they are absolutely rank but have good individuals which gets some results

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Had missed this one but browsing the Bristol Post briefly, some interesting- salty and sour grapes another that springs to mind- comments by Michael O'Neill.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nigel-pearson-bristol-city-stoke-6974884?int_source=nba

Seemingly told his players that they had lost vs 'the worst side in the League'.

O'Neill I've always considered to be a bit of an arse tbh, also has a forked tongue- "I enjoy the challenge of FFP" when selling both big Tangible Assets and signing loanees that they have post Parachute Payments.

Good to see NP biting back.

We are a bit of a bogey team for them tbh, or have become one- 5-1-2 in the League since they came down plus a relatively comfortable win in the Cup in 2017/18.

Doesn't reflect terribly well on players or manager to lose- twice- to the 'worst side in the League'.

He also strikes me as somewhat of a moaner about refs.

To give us our full and proper name - Bristol "we should be beating these" City 

[Loco Rojo]

Like some above have said - not the worst, but one of the worst.

We know it too, so not that shocked by what others think about us - and I often think we ARE the worst (only the table makes me realise otherwise).

Doesn't mean we can't change though. Long summer ahead and we can improve with the right decisions. 

[eardun]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

I actually think we are the worst or one of the worst teams, we just happen to have a bit of individual quality in Semenyo, Weimann to have kept us ticking the points over

So apart from Semenyo, Weimann, what have the Romans ever done for us?!

[The Swan and Cemetery]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Team to me seems to mean something entirely different to individuals. 

Are Man U a good team, no they are absolutely rank but have good individuals which gets some results

Get the point that a team is ideally more than the sum of its parts, but very difficult to assess objectively. Think this season we’ve seen more effort and more intent to get forward (strikers can’t do that on their own) and that’s partly coming from a team ethos. Lots of other things still poor, but not sure avoiding relegation is simply down to our strikers, any more than Fulham’s promotion is down to Mitrovic alone. Agree with @ExiledAjax that whatever the sum of parts, that is the team. Opponents’ managers/supporters might say “they’re awful, but that Weimann’s handy”, but he’s still part of the team and contributing to Bristol City’s results, they can’t say “we beat Bristol City comfortably, but lost heavily to Andi Weimann”. However effective/ineffective the parts, it results in a whole - maybe Barnsley are more of a team and make more of what they’ve got (maybe), but overall their results are worse, as a team, just as ours are worse vs everyone above us. 

[tin]

No doubt we’ve had some stinkers this season, albeit nothing compared to last season, but we’ve also had games in which we’ve played pretty well. 

We’ve dropped 33 points from winning positions this season. That doesn’t show we’re the worst side in the league; it shows we have defensive issues. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Stop using facts to win the argument.

I mean just because there are no metrics whatsoever to back up that opinion doesn’t mean they’re wrong, does it?

Form table, last 6 games we are 19th, last 8 games, 18th.

Clearly 2nd or 3rd worst..

Nor does anyone speculate how Derby might’ve done in their “cheating” seasons had they not cheated.  Had they complied they might not have got Rooney as manager (player- manager initially), they might’ve not been able to sign Lawrence, or Bielik, or whoever else.  They might’ve had to sell Bird or Buchanan or whoever.  In any of those scenarios they might’ve got relegated last season.  They cheated, they lost the points this season instead of previous seasons.

The real league table is the current one published with points deductions.

We might struggle next season, we might do ok.  Who’s to say someone like Stoke might also get points deductions next season, maybe Boro and Forest are forced into sales if they don’t go up.

Its all an unknown.

[cityexile]

It also feels there have been a handful of times this season we have been ‘done’ by players on loan at other sides.

Given the finances, it did seem we took a view to save any loan fees with  a view we would survive with what we had. That has just about turned out ok. It has enabled NP also to have a better look at what he has, and who he fancies or not.

Its pretty unusual at our level to have no loans at all. Obviously next season most teams will lose those they had, and will have to hope new ones turn out ok. It seemed a calculated risk for us, that worked out.

[GrahamC]

13 minutes ago, cityexile said:

It also feels there have been a handful of times this season we have been ‘done’ by players on loan at other sides.

Given the finances, it did seem we took a view to save any loan fees with  a view we would survive with what we had. That has just about turned out ok. It has enabled NP also to have a better look at what he has, and who he fancies or not.

Its pretty unusual at our level to have no loans at all. Obviously next season most teams will lose those they had, and will have to hope new ones turn out ok. It seemed a calculated risk for us, that worked out.

I’d argue it had turned out better than that.

It really makes no difference if we had finished 8th or 19th, we are now putting a side on the pitch (minus Kalas, Wells, O’Dowda & Palmer) that I reckon is nearer the amount we can afford & stay within FFP.

Trick of course is selling those above who are not OoC this summer & then making the overall squad no weaker with their cheaper replacements.

The strategy of not borrowing players (who are never free) also has enabled Scott to play an incredible number of games, no one seriously thought he’d play nearly 40, plus Pring, Tanner, Benarous, Cundy & Atkinson have made their first appearances at Championship level whilst Bell, Conway & Towler have had games too.

I do think next season will be equally as tough but also that the ground work put in this year will help.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It really makes no difference if we had finished 8th or 19th, we are now putting a side on the pitch (minus Kalas, Wells, O’Dowda & Palmer) that I reckon is nearer the amount we can afford & stay within FFP.

 

That’s a very good way of looking at it.

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I’d argue it had turned out better than that.

It really makes no difference if we had finished 8th or 19th, we are now putting a side on the pitch (minus Kalas, Wells, O’Dowda & Palmer) that I reckon is nearer the amount we can afford & stay within FFP.

Trick of course is selling those above who are not OoC this summer & then making the overall squad no weaker with their cheaper replacements.

The strategy of not borrowing players (who are never free) also has enabled Scott to play an incredible number of games, no one seriously thought he’d play nearly 40, plus Pring, Tanner, Benarous, Cundy & Atkinson have made their first appearances at Championship level whilst Bell, Conway & Towler have had games too.

I do think next season will be equally as tough but also that the ground work put in this year will help.

That's spot on.  Foresight from the Bristol City manager.

Personally,  I think next season will be better as we'll have less dead wood and a much clearer idea of what we're doing from CEO, to manager, coaches, 1st team players and young players.

For example,  I was impressed by Benarous on Monday. Had a confident look about him.  Not over awed and knows what's expected of him.  At least one of Conway, Benarous,  Bell , Towler etc will properly break into the team next season. 

[Red-Robbo]

16 hours ago, The Bard said:

That's spot on.  Foresight from the Bristol City manager.

Personally,  I think next season will be better as we'll have less dead wood and a much clearer idea of what we're doing from CEO, to manager, coaches, 1st team players and young players.

For example,  I was impressed by Benarous on Monday. Had a confident look about him.  Not over awed and knows what's expected of him.  At least one of Conway, Benarous,  Bell , Towler etc will properly break into the team next season. 

 

I'd argue that Benarous already has and is now a squad player, albeit not a regular starter. Conway seems the most promising of the others you've mentioned, but there are younger players pushing for chances too - which is good.  

[SecretSam]

He's entitled to his opinion. Probably makes you grumpy, having to work in a dump like Stoke.

[2015]

We haven't won back to back games all season. Scored 3 goals on only 1 occasion. Conceded how many in the last minute? It's at least 7 or 8.

It's poor and we have 2 or 3 good individuals keeping us alive.

[cityexile]

10 minutes ago, 2015 said:

We haven't won back to back games all season. Scored 3 goals on only 1 occasion. Conceded how many in the last minute? It's at least 7 or 8.

It's poor and we have 2 or 3 good individuals keeping us alive.

Not bothered to count back, but we have had at least three 3-2s this year.

[2015]

21 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Not bothered to count back, but we have had at least three 3-2s this year.

I was wrong. Just didn't seem like we did it very often at all

Edited April 21, 2022 by 2015

[cityexile]

39 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I was wrong. Just didn't seem like we did it very often at all

No worries....certainly true we have barely this season ever been up by more than a goal.

[Midred]

Didn't Tommy Docherty say this about us in the early 70s after his team had lost to us twice?

[fgrsimon]

As Joe Strummer once said "The future is unwritten". Who'd have thought Huddersfield, who were one of the few teams below us last season, would be challenging for automatic promotion. Barnsley last season made the play-offs after only surviving in the final game of the season before. 

[Wanderingred]

The league table doesn’t lie after 44 games. We are closer to Stoke in mid table than we are to either Peterborough or Barnsley in the bottom three. Not even close to the worst team in the league. 

[Waconda]

Our organisation, tactics and performance versus Peterborough would have made us the worse team in the League let alone the Division.

Opposition coaches must have a field day when studying how we organise when without the ball. 

Much improved in the last 2 games happy to concede. Changes were made after the Posh debacle for sure.

[Lanterne Rouge]

On 21/04/2022 at 18:02, SecretSam said:

He's entitled to his opinion. Probably makes you grumpy, having to work in a dump like Stoke.

The Venice of the Midlands.

With less gondolas and more shopping trollies.

[DaveF]

Just now, Mr Sno said:

It's been a much worse season for Stoke than us. They were tipped for promotion, maybe Mr o Neil has been on the Source again.

And Barnsley considering they were in play offs last season and as it stands they're down...

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, DaveF said:

And Barnsley considering they were in play offs last season and as it stands they're down...

Bottom 3 budget though. They over performed last season.

[Waconda]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Bottom 3 budget though. They over performed last season.

How have we done in relation to our budget this season ?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 20/04/2022 at 20:45, tin said:

No doubt we’ve had some stinkers this season, albeit nothing compared to last season, but we’ve also had games in which we’ve played pretty well. 

We’ve dropped 33 points from winning positions this season. That doesn’t show we’re the worst side in the league; it shows we have defensive issues. 

Hold on we have 49 points. If we have dropped 33 points, 49+33=82 points.

That's seconed place

[Show Me The Money!]

Surely if you lose twice to the worst team in the division you should lose your job

[cityexile]

11 hours ago, Show Me The Money! said:

Surely if you lose twice to the worst team in the division you should lose your job

For us losing twice to Birmingham, 5-1 on agg is right up there as poor results.

Bham no doubt very grateful for those six points, we always seem to help them out. Equally we are as grateful for 6 points against Reading, as Reading are for their six points against Birmingham! Come the end, the table does not lie.

Hopefully next season Birmingham’s luck runs out.

[SecretSam]

On 22/04/2022 at 18:33, Lanterne Rouge said:

The Venice of the Midlands.

With less gondolas and more shopping trollies.

I think that's Brum, BTW. When I lived there, the locals would quote that (tongue in cheek). As luck would have it, I actually went to Venice at that time - if you've ever been there, it's TINY , so having 'more canals' isn't much of an achievement!

[NOTBLUE]

On 22/04/2022 at 18:33, Lanterne Rouge said:

The Venice of the Midlands.

With less gondolas and more shopping trollies.

They’re not canals,they’re open sewers.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 22/04/2022 at 21:14, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Hold on we have 49 points. If we have dropped 33 points, 49+33=82 points.

That's seconed place

Points gained from losing positions too however?

There have been a few ie after conceding the 1st goal.

Fulham home, Peterborough away, Hull away and Cardiff at home all spring to mind. Dunno if there are any others. Barnsley home too.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous