Palmer signs for Coventry

[Taz]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Is this something that happens? A player leaves on a permanent and the old club still puts in on wages? I understand if it’s a loan but that’s a crap position to find yourself in if they’re gone permanently!

Jet. Ipswich were still paying (or paid him a bulk) of the loss of of wages he had for when he signed for us.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

First of all, the world has moved on from the days when a transfer was a compensation payment for the remainder of the contract value.  The transfer fee was the amount of the remaining contract, e.g. £20k p.w, Cov would pay £1m to City to buy him out of the contract.  But that’s old skool!

Today the transfer fee is more a “trading value” than contract buy out.  But as a result, it is expected that the buying club will offer the player the same / greater than they’re currently on the make it worth their while to cancel their existing contract and start a fresh one at the new club.

Contractually we are obliged to pay KP his full contract until it’s end date.

If we were trying to mutually cancel his contract we’d have to reach a position where KP would be happy to get “an amount” to go now rather than be tied to City for the rest of the season with little hope of playing.  Bit like Lansbury last season.

However we now have an interested party, Coventry.  There are now multiple permutations.

Let’s just throw in a few options.

Option 1 - Coventry want their cake and eat it!

They don’t want to pay a transfer fee and only want to pay half his wages for a 3 year deal.  If KP wants his £20k p.w from City, we’d have to stump up the other half (£10k p.w) for his final year.  For years 2 and 3 he will get £10k p.w from Coventry, our obligation ends next summer.

Option 2 - money bags Cov!

They offer us £500k transfer fee and £20k p.w for 3 years.  As the wage offer is the same as what City pay him, then he can cancel his contract with us and pick up the new one with Cov.  This option is very unlikely.

Option 3 - 3-way compromise!

Coventry offer us £250k fee, they offer KP £10k p.w for 3 years, and we pay the £5k p.w for the final year.  City have compromised a bit on the fee and KP’s wages, Cov are giving us a transfer fee, KP has compromised a bit on his wages this year and more in years 2 and 3.

Option 4 - Silly buggers - no compromise!

KP stays at City, earns his £20k p.w, Coventry don’t get their man, City don’t reduce their costs next season, KP potentially ruins his career.

 

Thanks dave,

[joshbristol]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Thanks dave,

Can only blame Lee Johnson I suppose

[Fpcity]

8 minutes ago, joshbristol said:

If palmer and kalas both end up leaving that is  potentially 11 million pound we have parted with to receive possibly 1 million back from kalas .

Plus the 5m+ for Diedhiou, couple of million on Nagy . Big lose on just 4 players in a year or so 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

In that sense we could make a one off payment where we pay the difference between what Coventry are offering and what he was on with us or an agreed amount to make make him a free agent to make the move happen. If we can afford the one off payment it would help our wage bill on a per week basis.

16 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Yes which generally means paying up the remainder of his contract or getting Coventry to pay that up, which is over a million quid or a mutually beneficial sum that benefits both parties 

The key word is “mutual”.  If as @joshbcfcstates KP is willing to terminate his contract with us to allow his registration to be transferred to Coventry, then as long as City are happy too, then it can happen.  It’s mutual, consideration is £0.

[joshbristol]

Just now, paul_fox said:

Plus the 5m+ for Diedhiou, couple of million on Nagy . Big lose on just 4 players in a year or so 

Crazy 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, joshbristol said:

Can only blame Lee Johnson I suppose

Mark Ashton and steve/Jon lansdown

Little Lee was the manager he didn't negotiate the contract or transfer fee

[joshbristol]

Just now, Monkeh said:

Mark Ashton and steve/Jon lansdown

Little Lee was the manager he didn't negotiate the contract or transfer fee

Ye agree but I also imagine Lee Johnson had a lot of input 

[Monkeh]

Just now, joshbristol said:

Ye agree but I also imagine Lee Johnson had a lot of input 

Not in terms of money no, he'd have zero input

He'd identify a player he wanted or more then likely a position he wanted, the recruitment team would identify said player names would be passed to johnson then any negation would have nothing to do with him,

Any money side of things is not in the managers remit in the modern game,

 

[joshbristol]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Not in terms of money no, he'd have zero input

He'd identify a player he wanted or more then likely a position he wanted, the recruitment team would identify said player names would be passed to johnson then any negation would have nothing to do with him,

Any money side of things is not in the managers remit in the modern game,

 

I disagree mate 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Monkeh said:

Mark Ashton and steve/Jon lansdown

Little Lee was the manager he didn't negotiate the contract or transfer fee

Agree.  As long as LJ understood the ramifications on his budget of each signing, then it’s down to MA to execute the transfer.

Its pretty clear than Nige is clear on the financial impacts of his squad, and Gould does the deal within the parameters of the agreement to sign said player(s).  If Gould cannot sign player x within the sums agreed, they move on or they understand it might mean they can’t get another player as a result.

[Lrrr]

20 minutes ago, joshbristol said:

Surely city won’t pay his remaining wages a whole seasons worth to get him a move when they can just keep him as back up until his contract expires 

If we can afford the payment (ie we sell Kalas, Massengo or Semenyo and are willing to use a portion) we can then reinvest the wages on one or more new players, a player we want vs one we know we won't use for essentially what is a transfer fee in paying off Palmer.

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The key word is “mutual”.  If as @joshbcfcstates KP is willing to terminate his contract with us to allow his registration to be transferred to Coventry, then as long as City are happy too, then it can happen.  It’s mutual, consideration is £0.

Well then its an 'agreed' amount as I mentioned 

[Simon bristol]

32 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

They can say what they want but terminating a contract for no valid reason is a breach of employment law

This is broadly what happened with nagy as far as i know, mutually agreeing to tear up a contract to allow both parties to move on.

[Simon bristol]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The key word is “mutual”.  If as @joshbcfcstates KP is willing to terminate his contract with us to allow his registration to be transferred to Coventry, then as long as City are happy too, then it can happen.  It’s mutual, consideration is £0.

Is this your understanding of the nagy to pisa transfer dave?

[NcnsBcfc]

Whatever the end result is with Palmer, from my perspective; he will go down as the worst signing ever in financial terms since I started supporting the club (1978).

His lack of end product on the pitch just exemplifies what a truly awful deal it was.

Even before his permanent signing, we must have been paying his wages, and a loan fee to Chelsea.

By the end of his loan he wasn't even in the first team reckoning. Absolute madness to then buy him, and put him on those wages.

That crazy summer of 2019, just keeps coming back to bite us financially.

 

 

[Redtucks]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

i  

Local woman called Godiva is already out preparing for his arrival.

..........get your tits out for the lads!!!

 

[And Its Smith]

[bpexile]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

i  

Local woman called Godiva is already out preparing for his arrival.

Godiva? shouldn't that be Godelpem?

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, joshbristol said:

I disagree mate 

Johnson would of had zero input on wages or any other kind of contract negotiations 

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Is this your understanding of the nagy to pisa transfer dave?

Pretty much.  Free transfer, no ongoing commitment to his wages for his final year.  It wouldn’t surprise me if we put a couple of clauses in too, e.g. sell-on percentage, promotion bonus, or similar.

From a annual accounts perspective we wrote off the remaining £775k of amortisation due in 21/22 by impairing it is 20/21’s accounts, so that the loss was included the 20/21 set of accounts which were halved and added to 19/20 halved amount too.  A bit of clever accounting possibly!

It’s what was reported at the time, and the accounts back it up…so that’s how it’s entered into my spreadsheets!

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, billywedlock said:

We can all pontificate on this one, but for sure there will need to have been some compromise from all sides to make it happen. We will never know the details , though in this case it is pretty sure, overall, this would have cost us money. However, far less than his salary for one year plus his amortised fee. We move on, better for Kasey and City. That is football. 

Not sure he is a Coventry player mind, but that is something else. I hope he finds his mojo where his abilities match the teams requirements. Always seemed a very nice guy, but I could never see how he fitted any of the 3 City managers he played under. 

Agree, if his wages of £1m p.a. are to be believed, and his amortisation of £875k p.a also, then we are trying to avoid having to fork out as much of that £1.875m as possible next season.  Undoubtedly we won’t avoid all of it.

But we can’t just give him away either.  If this rumour is true then at least it feels as if Kasey has realised he’s got a career to be getting on with.  To wind his contract down here with no chance of playing would be pointless.

[Fordy62]

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

I don’t hate Palmer, I still think there’s a player in there, but he needs to mature his game beyond u23 football.

He currently costs the club too much for the value we get, but that’s not his fault.

We haven’t heard of bad attitude, just that he hadn’t done enough to be ahead of other players.

I hope we do manage to move him on at as low a cost to us as possible, but I also hope he kickstarts his career. 

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

There are certainly those who accuse him of having a bad attitude, something for which I know of no evidence. Others accuse him of being lazy, which I also don't see. If anything he sometimes tries too hard, and ends up losing the team shape.

There have certainly been no Bakinson style comments from Nigel, who tends not to hold back.

He just doesn't seem to be tactically disciplined, which may be why no manager has got a consistent tune out of him.

He seems to be a perfectly decent young man who doesn't deserve the hostility he gets at times. I wish him well.

[CreekRed]

I think the best we ever saw with Kasey was when Afobe was scoring, the two of them clicked and that seemed to get the best out of him. Then we had the unfortunate injury to Benik and his tragic family loss, we don’t know what that might have done to Kasey. I think it’s best for all parties if he moves on to try and kick start his career again, this happens then we can all move on 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

He hasn't done much right either!!!!!!

Hating him doesn't enter my head; just disappointed that we, thanks to MA and Palmer, wasted a transfer fee and four years excessive salary. Thank goodness that we have a CEO and a Football Manager who are acting responsibly and not lining their own pockets.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

Morning @Fordy62

No hate from me to Palmer.

I think he just exemplifies where we went wrong as a club, and like Wells is an example of lessons that need to be learnt (If they haven't already). 

Certain players now feel like some sort of financial millstones around our neck, regardless of their performances (or lack of them) on the pitch. Alongside Wells, Kalas also falls into this category. Stopping NP from reshaping the squad in the manner in which he wants us to progress.

As a club we just got a bit too ambitious financially, and like Icarus got burnt accordingly.

[chinapig]

7 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Morning @Fordy62

No hate from me to Palmer.

I think he just exemplifies where we went wrong as a club, and like Wells is an example of lessons that need to be learnt (If they haven't already). 

Certain players now feel like some sort of financial millstones around our neck, regardless of their performances (or lack of them) on the pitch. Alongside Wells, Kalas also falls into this category. Stopping NP from reshaping the squad in the manner in which he wants us to progress.

As a club we just got a bit too ambitious financially, and like Icarus got burnt accordingly.

Exactly, the fault is with the club not the player. Including Steve for allowing such profligacy.

[cidered abroad]

9 minutes ago, TomF said:

I think its probably more the mistakes of LJ and Swiss Tony that causes the resentment of Palmer. As a player like you say he's not done much wrong. 

Forgive my ignorance but who or what is "Swiss Tony" ?

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

There are certainly those who accuse him of having a bad attitude, something for which I know of no evidence. Others accuse him of being lazy, which I also don't see. If anything he sometimes tries too hard, and ends up losing the team shape.

There have certainly been no Bakinson style comments from Nigel, who tends not to hold back.

He just doesn't seem to be tactically disciplined, which may be why no manager has got a consistent tune out of him.

He seems to be a perfectly decent young man who doesn't deserve the hostility he gets at times. I wish him well.

I've not seen accusations of a bad attitude, what I have seen and think is that's he's a player wasting his talent and doesn't give the club value for money especially since he's one of the highest paid here,

Hate is a strong word, its more disappointment 

[BCFCGav]

City can delay the shirt for another month if they can get this wrapped up quickly in my book. Announced tonight during the England game with a small transfer fee coming our way, pleeeeeease. 

Echoing above though, Palmer is far from a player I hate. Just financially better for the club if he moves on. Hope he does well at Cov (barring against us). 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Certain players now feel like some sort of financial millstones around our neck, regardless of their performances (or lack of them) on the pitch. Alongside Wells, Kalas also falls into this category. Stopping NP from reshaping the squad in the manner in which he wants us to progress.

Financial millstone is a good way of describing it. I used “cost behemoth” to describe the overall state.

But you’re right, would we be suggesting moving TK on if we paid a similar fee / wages to Rob Atkinson.

As a club (and set of fans) we are trying to make squad recommendations based on financial not footballing reasons in some cases. That’s a crap position to be in, and the fault of the previous regime, the owner still being present.

It is why we still need to be patient. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Think you've misread the room - it's relief at getting rid of a massive millstone round our neck - fingers crossed!.

A millstone we thought we were lumbered with for another 12 month and a perpetual reminder of all that was wrong about Ashton's tenure at our club. Yes we've still got other players he signed, expensive ones at that, but at least they're making a contribution.    

Edited June 7, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

The biggest issues with Palmer being at our club are financial - the huge wage and transfer fee we paid for him. It's right to point out that neither are his fault, and the blame for this should lie predominantly with Mark Ashton. Addressing that financial burden is the main thing to be celebrated if a transfer does take place.

That being said, I really don't think Palmer has helped himself whilst here. Has he been sh*t? In terms of value for money, definitely. In absolute terms, he's been relatively poor IMO - he hasn't contributed a lot.

You correctly state that we don't know exactly what's happened behind the scenes, but 4 consecutive managers (including Steve Cooper) quickly relegating him to the bench or reserves is a pretty major red flag. I certainly feel he's had sufficient chances/opportunities too. I just generally get the impression that Palmer isn't THAT bothered about his development. Does he take some responsibility for his development? Or does he just turn up, go through the motions a bit, and hope for the best? Feels like another case of someone who prefers the footballer lifestyle to actually being a footballer. In many ways, he illustrates the rotten club culture that Pearson is aiming to rectify.

Palmer falls towards the bottom end of the 'likability scale' for me. By no means do I hate the guy, but I think he's more deserving of criticism than many other players who have left our club. 

[Fordy62]

14 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Think you've misread the room - it's relief at getting rid of a massive millstone round our neck - fingers crossed!.

A millstone we thought we were lumbered with for another 12 month and a perpetual reminder of all that was wrong about Ashton and Johnson’s tenure at our club. Yes we've still got other players he signed, expensive ones at that, but at least they're making a contribution.    

Yes… I may have misread the room and I hope I have. 

PS made a slight edit to the above!  

[Steve Watts]

I guess the thing to remember about Nagy and Aubameyang is that the players wanted to leave, rather than the club wanting to get rid.  With AN we facilitated it because he was respectful to the club with how he went about it.  He wasn't looking to move for financial reasons and we weren't actively trying to move him on.  It was purely family reasons.  Aubameyang wanted to go and so he was the one that would have had to make concessions to make that happen, not Arsenal.  In the case of KP, to the best of our knowledge he hasn't asked to leave (and why would he - it would affect him financially) but it's us that want to get rid, so we'd likely have to bend a little more than we'd want to in order to get at least a large portion of his wages off the books.

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I want rid of Palmer as much as the next person, however I would say that the reaction on here is more akin to say Nicky Hunt leaving. 

Palmer hasn’t exactly been shit and the reality is that none of us really know what’s gone on behind the scenes - but Nige doesn’t fancy him. 

There’s a real feeling of a player we hate vibe going on and I don’t think that should be the case, he hasn’t really done anything wrong and you could argue he hasn’t had much of a chance potentially. 

Like I said, it’d be nice for Coventry to share his wages, but there’ll be no hate from me. 

But I've heard his wife does........Maybe this is the issue.

48 minutes ago, TomF said:

I think its probably more the mistakes of LJ and Swiss Tony that causes the resentment of Palmer. As a player like you say he's not done much wrong. 

Signing Kasey Palmer is like making love to a beautiful woman.  At the time it's wonderful and full of excitement, but ultimately it doesn't last long.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, chinapig said:

 

He just doesn't seem to be tactically disciplined, 

You mean: "He's a liability when he doesn't have the ball" ?

If so, Cruyff's quote about a player having the ball for on average only 3 minutes in a game springs to mind, he said:

"...the most important thing is: what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball? That is what determines whether you are a good player or not."

I don’t think boys like KP and many others like him grow up believing this from JC to be true - as a boy, skipping past 5 or 6 opponents at will, scoring 40 or 50 goals a season - they grow up believing they are incredibly special and talented, and have what it takes and are destined to be a special player for someone like Chelsea - and this talent certainly carries them a long way and gets them so far - even as far as lucrative professional contracts - but eventually most meet reality and the limits of their talent.

Then what?

Then, to be a "good player or not" is determined by other things, nothing to do with your ability to manipulate a ball.

And this is where, I imagine, boys like KP - feted for so long, told they are "special" or "talented" - struggle. To be good player ie get picked, involves a whole lot of stuff they believe is for other less talented boys and not for them. They can't or won't make the switch

It's not like KP will be unaware of what is required in professional football to be a good player, to be a regular First XI player, so what has he done about that in his time - he has had plenty of this here - here?

Is it a case of he "can't" or he "won't" ?

 

As I imagine it, some boys that grow up streets ahead of their peers and feted for their talent just can't be doing with what is required in those 87 minutes and when they are being rewarded as KP still is, and no doubt will be again when he's gone from here, then it must be tempting to think: why change?

They want the game to fit to how they are, not the other way round. 

 

I am guessing and speculating but KP has had long enough now - long enough here, long enough out on loan - to know what is required and do something about and adapt his game, but it hasn't happened. 

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Yes… I may have misread the room and I hope I have. 

PS made a slight edit to the above!  

Fans are always going to scorn players who seemingly don’t try their hardest. 

[KegCity]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Fans are always going to scorn players who seemingly don’t try their hardest. 

Doesn't apply to Palmer though.

[Steve Watts]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Fans are always going to scorn players who seemingly don’t try their hardest. 

This seems to be especially true of City fans.  The likes of Nugent and Torpey and even (controversial I know) Marv etc were never the most gifted of players, but rarely were criticised because the effort they put in when selected endeared them to us.   

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Doesn't apply to Palmer though.

That’s your opinion but plenty disagree 

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

This seems to be especially true of City fans.  The likes of Nugent and Torpey and even (controversial I know) Marv etc were never the most gifted of players, but rarely were criticised because the effort they put in when selected endeared them to us.   

Absolutely.  I don’t think we have had many players over the years who fans would class as lazy, or not trying their hardest but there have certainly been a few.  Palmer, Hunt, Dinning, JET, Tomlin are a few names I can think of but that spans a number of seasons. 

[KegCity]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

That’s your opinion but plenty disagree 

Doesn't mean they're right. Palmer's been unlucky that, like a lot of players we've signed over the past 5 years, he hasn't been a good fit for the football we've tried to play and hasn't been surrounded by players that suit him. Add in a large salary and he's doomed to fail.

It's definitely best for him to leave, equally if he was on 10k a week I'd want him to stay. Calling the guy lazy isn't based off anything because he hasn't done anything to suggest he is. Just because a number 10 doesn't cover every blade of grass (wouldn't make sense for his role in the team) does not mean they're not trying.

It's lazy analysis, like moaning about HNM not scoring. It's irrelevant for their role in the team.

[Unan]

5 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

This seems to be especially true of City fans.  The likes of Nugent and Torpey and even (controversial I know) Marv etc were never the most gifted of players, but rarely were criticised because the effort they put in when selected endeared them to us.   

I think this is the mindset of most English fans. For example, and I’m generalising, Spanish fans couldn’t care less how much effort you put in, only if you’re good or not. Which is one of the reasons why Madrid fans have booed Ronaldo before, to us it seems insane to boo a player like that; but if a player doesn’t play well then they’re subject to abuse no matter who they are or how hard they work.

[KegCity]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

Absolutely.  I don’t think we have had many players over the years who fans would class as lazy, or not trying their hardest but there have certainly been a few.  Palmer, Hunt, Dinning, JET, Tomlin are a few names I can think of but that spans a number of seasons. 

3 of those players play attacking midfield. Makes you wonder.

[Monkeh]

15 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

This seems to be especially true of City fans.  The likes of Nugent and Torpey and even (controversial I know) Marv etc were never the most gifted of players, but rarely were criticised because the effort they put in when selected endeared them to us.   

Torpey was critisied very harshly to say otherwise is wrong

[RedRoss]

Has this been speculated on by any media platforms or just that twitter page so far? 

[NcnsBcfc]

23 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

You mean: "He's a liability when he doesn't have the ball" ?

If so, Cruyff's quote about a player having the ball for on average only 3 minutes in a game springs to mind, he said:

"...the most important thing is: what do you do during those 87 minutes when you do not have the ball? That is what determines whether you are a good player or not."

I don’t think boys like KP and many others like him grow up believing this from JC to be true - as a boy, skipping past 5 or 6 opponents at will, scoring 40 or 50 goals a season - they grow up believing they are incredibly special and talented, and have what it takes and are destined to be a special player for someone like Chelsea - and this talent certainly carries them a long way and gets them so far - even as far as lucrative professional contracts - but eventually most meet reality and the limits of their talent.

Then what?

Then, to be a "good player or not" is determined by other things, nothing to do with your ability to manipulate a ball.

And this is where, I imagine, boys like KP - feted for so long, told they are "special" or "talented" - struggle. To be good player ie get picked, involves a whole lot of stuff they believe is for other less talented boys and not for them. They can't or won't make the switch

It's not like KP will be unaware of what is required in professional football to be a good player, to be a regular First XI player, so what has he done about that in his time - he has had plenty of this here - here?

Is it a case of he "can't" or he "won't" ?

 

As I imagine it, some boys that grow up streets ahead of their peers and feted for their talent just can't be doing with what is required in those 87 minutes and when they are being rewarded as KP still is, and no doubt will be again when he's gone from here, then it must be tempting to think: why change?

They want the game to fit to how they are, not the other way round. 

 

I am guessing and speculating but KP has had long enough now - long enough here, long enough out on loan - to know what is required and do something about and adapt his game, but it hasn't happened. 

Good Post @Bristol Oil Services

And the points you raised highlight for me why Alex Scott is such a good prospect.

Yes, he likes to get on the front foot, and be progressive. But he isn't afraid of getting involved (12 yellows ) or sprinting back to cover for other players.

His determination to make do in the RWB position, and to give 100% is admirable as well.

All of these attributes seem somewhat lost on Mr Palmer at times. Undoubted talent, but from my perspective (like yours as well, by the look of it); the modern day footballer has to do so much more when they are out of possession.

Who knows whether a player like Jacki would have survived in the modern game. Players like Tomlin demonstrate the need for more than just a playmaker.

[Rocky]

 

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, Rocky said:

 

Not in much of a rush if the medical is next week

[Steve Watts]

12 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Torpey was critisied very harshly to say otherwise is wrong

I honestly never heard anything about him. I stand corrected in his case then. Certainly nothing around where I sat, and I think he just about pre-dates the forum.

[Sheltons Army]

19 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Doesn't mean they're right. Palmer's been unlucky that, like a lot of players we've signed over the past 5 years, he hasn't been a good fit for the football we've tried to play and hasn't been surrounded by players that suit him. Add in a large salary and he's doomed to fail.

It's definitely best for him to leave, equally if he was on 10k a week I'd want him to stay. Calling the guy lazy isn't based off anything because he hasn't done anything to suggest he is. Just because a number 10 doesn't cover every blade of grass (wouldn't make sense for his role in the team) does not mean they're not trying.

It's lazy analysis, like moaning about HNM not scoring. It's irrelevant for their role in the team.

I’d ask more questions Keg regarding ‘ laziness’ about his determination , or hunger to analyse , and improve his game , the hard work on the training pitches , how to play a part in a team unit , how to maximise his contribution and reduce his deficiencies .....

He has ability , he’s a South London Cage footballer , like many - the difference being that many of those have taken those skills and built on them for 11 v 11 football and the high demands of professional football 

That demands a different skill , one of the mind

[And Its Smith]

22 minutes ago, KegCity said:

3 of those players play attacking midfield. Makes you wonder.

If there is one position that players can get away with it then it’s probably attacking midfield. I’m the first to say that players are trying more than some might think but there are also players who certainly don’t put in the effort.  I don’t think it’s similar to HNM not scoring at all. That’s not his job.  When someone runs past Palmer and he gives up then I’m not going to ignore it just because he’s sometimes good at passing 

[And Its Smith]

8 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Good Post @Bristol Oil Services

And the points you raised highlight for me why Alex Scott is such a good prospect.

Yes, he likes to get on the front foot, and be progressive. But he isn't afraid of getting involved (12 yellows ) or sprinting back to cover for other players.

His determination to make do in the RWB position, and to give 100% is admirable as well.

All of these attributes seem somewhat lost on Mr Palmer at times. Undoubted talent, but from my perspective (like yours as well, by the look of it); the modern day footballer has to do so much more when they are out of possession.

Who knows whether a player like Jacki would have survived in the modern game. Players like Tomlin demonstrate the need for more than just a playmaker.

Scott is a cracking comparison. Doesn’t hide from his off ball side of the game 

[KegCity]

4 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If there is one position that players can get away with it then it’s probably attacking midfield. I’m the first to say that players are trying more than some might think but there are also players who certainly don’t put in the effort.  I don’t think it’s similar to HNM not scoring at all. That’s not his job.  When someone runs past Palmer and he gives up then I’m not going to ignore it just because he’s sometimes good at passing 

An attacking midfielder that bombs back isn't doing their job, they need to be an outlet up the pitch. It was one of the reasons Weimann was labelled a headless chicken at different points in his city career because he was chasing everyone down rather than staying in position and being an option. It's not their job. There's plenty of valid criticisms for Palmer but laziness isn't one of them.

For what it's worth last pre season he was tracking back and getting more stuck in, he injured a Celtic player after sprinting back and putting in a last ditch challenge. I thought he'd turned a corner but was never seen again, aside from a cameo against Fulham where he scored and changed the game for us.

16 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Good Post @Bristol Oil Services

And the points you raised highlight for me why Alex Scott is such a good prospect.

Yes, he likes to get on the front foot, and be progressive. But he isn't afraid of getting involved (12 yellows ) or sprinting back to cover for other players.

His determination to make do in the RWB position, and to give 100% is admirable as well.

All of these attributes seem somewhat lost on Mr Palmer at times. Undoubted talent, but from my perspective (like yours as well, by the look of it); the modern day footballer has to do so much more when they are out of possession.

Who knows whether a player like Jacki would have survived in the modern game. Players like Tomlin demonstrate the need for more than just a playmaker.

Will he do that when he's playing through the middle? I don't think he will if he's played as a 10 but time will tell. Tomlin's issues were about attitude rather than tracking back or not, I think pre sausage roll Tomlin shows that you don't have to be flogging yourself all over the pitch to be effective.

[brad blit]

16 minutes ago, phantom said:

Not in much of a rush if the medical is next week

I might be wrong in thinking hes away on Holiday at the moment

[petehinton]

fair play to him. That’s a great move. 
 

Lots of people looking silly out there for saying he’s just money grabbing, based on the fact he turned down the first club that came in for him….!!

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

An attacking midfielder that bombs back isn't doing their job, they need to be an outlet up the pitch. It was one of the reasons Weimann was labelled a headless chicken at different points in his city career because he was chasing everyone down rather than staying in position and being an option. It's not their job. There's plenty of valid criticisms for Palmer but laziness isn't one of them.

For what it's worth last pre season he was tracking back and getting more stuck in, he injured a Celtic player after sprinting back and putting in a last ditch challenge. I thought he'd turned a corner but was never seen again, aside from a cameo against Fulham where he scored and changed the game for us.

Will he do that when he's playing through the middle? I don't think he will if he's played as a 10 but time will tell. Tomlin's issues were about attitude rather than tracking back or not, I think pre sausage roll Tomlin shows that you don't have to be flogging yourself all over the pitch to be effective.

I didn’t say that they had to bomb back.  
 

Palmer can do it in bursts of one game here and there but can never put a run of games together. That’s why he doesn’t get picked.  It’s why he is about to join his 7th club at the age of 25.  It is why he has never appeared in more than 25 league games in a season.  
 

You can make as many excuses as you want but ultimately he has failed to impress many managers in the game.  Good luck to him at Coventry though, I hope he refocuses and can put effort in over a run of games 

[Bristol Oil Services]

11 minutes ago, brad blit said:

I might be wrong in thinking hes away on Holiday at the moment

...on Holiday from?

[Sheltons Army]

A seemingly respected ITK on their forum stating he’s signing for them on a 3 year deal

 

If his agent gets him another 3 year contract he’s a magician

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

...on Holiday from?

Exhaustion from sitting at home every Saturday,

If this goes through it will be our best transfer of the summer.

[Monkeh]

36 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I honestly never heard anything about him. I stand corrected in his case then. Certainly nothing around where I sat, and I think he just about pre-dates the forum.

I think it was more his goal scoring ability,

That or knocking out mark lever at grimsby 

[CyderInACan]

13 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Whatever the end result is with Palmer, from my perspective; he will go down as the worst signing ever in financial terms since I started supporting the club (1978).

He always had the whiff of a "Vanity Signing" for Swiss if you ask me. That period of time when we were literally burning pound notes whilst signing Kalas & Dasilva from Chelsea too. TK and JD have acquitted themselves reasonably/very well (depending on your point of view) but KP was, for me, always the one that was a bridge too far to have been made a permanent signing. 

[CyderInACan]

15 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Don't know if it was ever confirmed but there were strong suggestions that Ipswich were doing it with JET during his time with us.

That was a weird one, wasn't it, as didn't Paul Anderson go as part of the "swap-deal" for JET? 

[handsofclay]

1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

I honestly never heard anything about him. I stand corrected in his case then. Certainly nothing around where I sat, and I think he just about pre-dates the forum.

To back what Monkeh said Torpey was always the subject of a lot of spite near where I sat. I thought it was uncalled for as he was a hard working player who complimented Akinbiyi in a similar way to how Heskey complimented Owen. I got the impression it was because better strikers like Soren Anderson and Tony Thorpe were left out but as I said they didn't compliment Akinbiyi.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

Torpey was critisied very harshly to say otherwise is wrong

If so then those who responsible were either unaware of his health issues or just plain cruel. With today's concussion protocols he wouldn't get back on a pitch within a year of fracturing his skull. 

[Supersonic Robin]

3 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

He always had the whiff of a "Vanity Signing" for Swiss if you ask me. That period of time when we were literally burning pound notes whilst signing Kalas & Dasilva from Chelsea too. TK and JD have acquitted themselves reasonably/very well (depending on your point of view) but KP was, for me, always the one that was a bridge too far to have been made a permanent signing. 

This is another one of the big frustrations for me. We had him on loan - we knew exactly what we were getting. It just makes the transfer fee and wages we committed to even more ludicrous.

[Redrascal2]

Has moving Palmer on delayed further signings. Did we need the savings on his wages before we could sign further  targets. 

[archie andrews]

41 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

I think it was more his goal scoring ability,

That or knocking out mark lever at grimsby 

I thought torps got knocked out at grimsby.... 

[Taz]

16 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

He always had the whiff of a "Vanity Signing" for Swiss if you ask me. That period of time when we were literally burning pound notes whilst signing Kalas & Dasilva from Chelsea too. TK and JD have acquitted themselves reasonably/very well (depending on your point of view) but KP was, for me, always the one that was a bridge too far to have been made a permanent signing. 

I do wonder if there was some sort of "gentleman's agreement" where we agreed to take all 3 on loan, and agreed to buy them at the end of the season. With JD and TK they were announced fairly early on, and most agreed were great signings at the time. With KP the opinion on him was more split.

LJ said he wanted him for a full pre-season, that didn't happen. KP was announced quite late into the pre-season, and hasn't really played that much when compared to JD and TK. I wonder if most of that pre-season had Ashton grovelling at Chelsea to not take on Palmer, however if/when they threatened to stop all future deals between the clubs, he decided to go through with it regardless.

Of course I have no idea if any of the above happened, but the Palmer transfer has always baffled me because it goes against what LJ was saying/wanting at the time.

I don't dislike Palmer, he has just never suited our style of play. It's a strange transfer.