England v Hngary

[BS15_RED]

Sums it up perfectly.

[Atticus]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Southgate needs two results in September and a very decent WC or he’s toast (I think he will walk post WC)

What happens if we get tonked in those 2 games against Germany and Italy?

Too late to change at that point, and it will be f****** toxic with the fans and media. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Atticus

[Prime]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I’m torn here. Never been a Southgate fan. Didn’t deserve the job, plays a poor standard of football and my word doesn’t make the most of what could be considered a fairly golden generation. But… he’s done well so far. 

We won’t win with him at the helm, but at the same time he’s done too well to be sacked.

Remember when Southampton did really really well under Adkins (I think) and then they really really harshly sacked him and everybody thought it was silly. I feel like that’s where we’re at with GS. But the FA won’t be as ruthless as Saints were. 

But didn't they replace Adkins with Pochettino. I think Adkins was quickly forgotten. If Pochettino was English, he'd be a great Southgate replacement.  

Southgate will stay because he says the right things for the FA.  England need more but all other possible English managers are probably too young for the job.

[And Its Smith]

5 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

Does tonight's result mean we are currently a worse team than Northern Ireland? They only lost 1-0

No. Football doesn’t quite work like that!

[Wanderingred]

I think some credit needs to be given to the Hungarians… they are currently topping a group consisting of ourselves, Germany and Italy. I doubt anybody gave them a chance but they’ve done really well.

England though…. We are on our worst run of results since I can remember. Zero goals scored from open play in 360 minutes of football… Not the sort of form you want to be taking into the world cup.

[MarcusX]

Held of commenting last night as I was pretty disappointed.

Went to the game last night, firstly, Molinuex isn’t fit for purpose IMO. So much congestion in the walk ways, massive queues for toilets and the bar/food. Probably more “traditional” ground but if I was a modern fan used to Wembley, that is not a suitable alternative.

Fans were pretty poor too, constant wolves songs before the game, bore off.

As for the game, many will know I’m a Southgate fan and I’m probably guilty of viewing England through very rose-tinted glasses but I’ll try and be constructive.

That was embarrassing tonight. I’d make an argument that 4 games in 10 days after a long season is poor. The players should have been given as much time off as possible.

That said, once they are there they have to do more. I thought Phillips was poor, never made space for himself and didn’t get on the ball forcing the back line to either keep the ball far too long, or pump it up the pitch.

When we did pick the ball up in midfield it was too slow, meaning more often then not they had to recycle possession going backwards again.

Bowen and Saka had poor games. Fatigue? Maybe. Not good enough yet, probably. Found Bowen too predictable with the ball and Saka just couldn’t pass or control a ball.

Bellingham is an odd one. I want him to be good, but I don’t see the hype (I don’t watch German football). There’s probably a player kn there but again, not yet.

The game was screaming out for Grealish. I can’t stand the lad but he gives us some intent going forward and he scares defenders. He has to be playing in these games, it’s criminal that he isn’t.

Mount actually looked tidy when he came on, but we only really did anything on the counter. We couldn’t break Hungary down and it was incredibly frustrating to watch.

im a big Southgate fan, he’s given me the two best summers watching England and he’s improved us in terms of results. I completely understand the criticism he gets though, and I said before perhaps someone else would get more out of these players now. I just don’t know who would want it and do that?

I’m not going to make a knee jerk reaction and say sack Southgate, but things change quickly in football. These 4 games have been awful so September is huge now to restore some pride. He’s still in credit with a lot of fans but he needs to learn quickly from this.

[Phileas Fogg]

I’ve never been convinced by Southgate despite the tournament results. I’d love him to prove me wrong but he just doesn’t strike me as a winner. 

I’d be quite happy for him to go - the only viable option I can think of is Graham Potter who I think would likely be an upgrade.

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Totally unnecessary tournament , there are too many games , from over exposed European leagues to international. I did not know we were playing until I saw this thread tonight .

However , there have to be doubts about Southgate , despite his results , we do have some very good players and many of them attacking , but you would be hard pressed to see that when England play .  The Italy game still rankles , we played into their hands . It seems he has no clear idea how to maximise the talent available . The results of course allow him another go , but I just have the feeling we are nowhere near the potential of the squad . 
 

Back to tonight , I would think most of the team just want a rest and want to get away and have a rest before they restart pre season . too many games . 

Same with me, I thought it was on Wednesday, wish it had been now. Went to bed after the second goal, saw the writing was on the wall.  Bearing in mind we are  2 hours in front of the UK.

[The Bard]

57 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I’ve never been convinced by Southgate despite the tournament results. I’d love him to prove me wrong but he just doesn’t strike me as a winner. 

I’d be quite happy for him to go - the only viable option I can think of is Graham Potter who I think would likely be an upgrade.

I've never been convinced by is basically saying I don't like but haven't yet felt justified in criticising. 

Most of The criticism up to now has been absolutely ludicrous and is more a reflection of the poisonous 'culture war' whipped up by the right wing media than football.  Southgate is obviously more Guardian than Sun so would have got both barrels at some point. 

Now they have the poor run they were dreaming of they can really go for it.  

[Atticus]

14 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I've never been convinced by is basically saying I don't like but haven't yet felt justified in criticising. 

Most of The criticism up to now has been absolutely ludicrous and is more a reflection of the poisonous 'culture war' whipped up by the right wing media than football.  Southgate is obviously more Guardian than Sun so would have got both barrels at some point. 

Now they have the poor run they were dreaming of they can really go for it.  

Complete nonsense used as excuses by Guardian readers.

Ive seen no hate at all on Southgate by any "ring wing" outlets. He's hardly had it the same as Eriksson (personal life stuff) Mclaren or Hodgson.

The criticism is due to performances, team selections and tactics.

An easy obvious recent example is the 1-0 loss to Hungary. 5 at the back with 2 defensive mids in front. Its infuriating and frustrating to see us set up like that when we are clearly more talented going forward. Last night may not of shown it, but the players looked clueless.  Thats down to him. He has no idea how to utilise attack minded players. He is to scared to lose. 

Plus a complete lack of experience. It was a barmy appointment to begin with imo. He did well, I think that time has been and gone now. 

[Phileas Fogg]

20 minutes ago, The Bard said:

I've never been convinced by is basically saying I don't like but haven't yet felt justified in criticising. 

Most of The criticism up to now has been absolutely ludicrous and is more a reflection of the poisonous 'culture war' whipped up by the right wing media than football.  Southgate is obviously more Guardian than Sun so would have got both barrels at some point. 

Now they have the poor run they were dreaming of they can really go for it.  

To an extent that’s true yes. My gut feeling about him has always been negative. Similar to when we appointed Holden in many ways.

His tournament record is obviously very good - I just feel he won’t win us a tournament and risks wasting this talented group of players. 

I’m not too bothered about his politics of personal views - I’m purely talking about him as a manager. 

[And Its Smith]

Let’s be honest, if we had won that penalty shoot out against Italy there would still be people who want him out now. 

[Jeez]

7 hours ago, Prime said:

. If Pochettino was English, he'd be a great Southgate replacement.  

Southgate will stay because he says the right things for the FA.  England need more but all other possible English managers are probably too young for the job.

 

Doesn’t it really matter if he isnt English? Still be a great Southgate replacement & soon to be available.

[Cowshed]

8 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

 

I woud guess Phants , a chance to do some intensive work on training ground , probably then give them a few days / a week off , before a mini pre season 

 

Working on passing patterns to get the ball out of his back seven. Hopefully he wont continue thinking Phillips in front of the multiple CB's is a player maker. Possession is well and good but by the time the ball enters the final third, if it does at all it has moss on it. 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Cowshed

[Curr Avon]

Can't win a top level Nations League game and are bottom of their group with just two measly points.

Are French fans calling for the sacking of their World Cup winning manager, Didier Deschamps?

Are they being written off for Qatar?

Are they ****.

England will bounce back under Southgate, our most successful manager since Ramsay.

 

[MarcusX]

9 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Working on passing patterns to get the ball out of his back seven. Hopefully he wont continue thinking Phillips in front of the multiple CB's is a player maker. Possession is well and good but by the time the ball enters the final third, if it does at all it has moss on it. 

 

I dont think he does, he was clearly trying different players. Isn't that what most of us have been screaming out for? If he'd played his best 11 and we'd breezed past Hungary like some expected, what would we have learnt? We do that in qualifying.

Nations League is ultimately glorified friendlies, great to win but even if we won the tournament some woudl still be unhappy and say its a pointless trophy.

I think it's silly to call it a back 7. Firstly it was a back 4 and 1 holding last night, then it was a back 3 with wing backs playing high and again still only Phillips "holding". It was in no way a back 7 last night

[RedHienz]

11 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

 

England will bounce back under Southgate, our most successful manager since Ramsay.

 

Good at beating minnows.

Great and winning friendlys.

Been tested 3 times in tournament football and that stands a 0 - 3

He lacks the tactical ability to push on, with the group of players he has the team should be able to compete consistently and imo he has achieved nothing.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

Good at beating minnows.

Great and winning friendlys.

Been tested 3 times in tournament football and that stands a 0 - 3

He lacks the tactical ability to push on, with the group of players he has the team should be able to compete consistently and imo he has achieved nothing.

He’s got to the final of a major tournament.  Whether you like it or not, that’s an achievement 

[Cowshed]

23 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I dont think he does, he was clearly trying different players. Isn't that what most of us have been screaming out for? If he'd played his best 11 and we'd breezed past Hungary like some expected, what would we have learnt? We do that in qualifying.

Nations League is ultimately glorified friendlies, great to win but even if we won the tournament some woudl still be unhappy and say its a pointless trophy.

I think it's silly to call it a back 7. Firstly it was a back 4 and 1 holding last night, then it was a back 3 with wing backs playing high and again still only Phillips "holding". It was in no way a back 7 last night

No is not silly to call Southgates formations a back seven. Their starting position are deep. Its not width depth and dispersal. And his two or one hm/cdms are deep with focus on reserve principles etc. Phillips holding is no player maker. He is no pivot. He does not make key passes =Problem =Expectation.  

Screaming out for no different players? No idea. I would expect attempts to improve upon high possession low chance creation. In the 3CB's, 2WB's, 2DCM's there is an obvious problem it was obvious in the Euros and it become more obvious now. England cant  play out efficiently. High possession low chance creation has already failed. Performance indicators were there, and this form was in the post. The different  players have not altered MrSouthages shapes, or intent, its still focussed on building play out in the same manners. Hungary dropped off and lapped it up twice. Its a coaching flaw not one of the players making. Same same= Again.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Cowshed

[Show Me The Money!]

40 years into being an England fan and I’ma bit tired of England manager bashing. We’ve had what people would call elite managers like Capello and Sven. Popular Englishmen like Bobby Robson, Venables, Keegan. Even an assistant manager to Ferguson in McClaren. None of them having managed to turn England into world or europe beaters. So I’ve little stomach now for laying into Southgate now after losing a couple of friendlies.

I’m more of the opinion that is the players that have let the manager down. Yes, you could argue that Southgate was a bit too defensive in his team selections but even if he’d played a more attacking team I’m not convinced it would have made much difference when they play in that lethargic, just expecting things to happen, way.

I will agree that tactically Southgate, and his coaching team, have some room for improvement but it’s not all doom and gloom. 

[WarksRobin]

3 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

I think some credit needs to be given to the Hungarians… they are currently topping a group consisting of ourselves, Germany and Italy. I doubt anybody gave them a chance but they’ve done really well.

England though…. We are on our worst run of results since I can remember. Zero goals scored from open play in 360 minutes of football… Not the sort of form you want to be taking into the world cup.

Hungary illustrating the benefit of employing a top level coach

[ashton_fan]

Southgate has got the most out of the England players, a bit like GJ did with us for one season. I don't think England's players are up to the standard of other top sides, particularly when it comes to intelligence and mental strength. Sacking the manager because he's never likely to win a tournament isn't really valid, no manager has won a tournament with England since Alf Ramsey in 1966 (and that was played at home) so it must be down to the quality of the players available rather than the manager.

[The Bard]

29 minutes ago, RedHienz said:

Good at beating minnows.

Great and winning friendlys.

Been tested 3 times in tournament football and that stands a 0 - 3

He lacks the tactical ability to push on, with the group of players he has the team should be able to compete consistently and imo he has achieved nothing.

Competing consistently is precisely what England have done under Southgate. All the more impressive because the players aren't actually as good as they are often made out to be. 

 

 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Held of commenting last night as I was pretty disappointed.

Went to the game last night, firstly, Molinuex isn’t fit for purpose IMO. So much congestion in the walk ways, massive queues for toilets and the bar/food. Probably more “traditional” ground but if I was a modern fan used to Wembley, that is not a suitable alternative.

Fans were pretty poor too, constant wolves songs before the game, bore off.

As for the game, many will know I’m a Southgate fan and I’m probably guilty of viewing England through very rose-tinted glasses but I’ll try and be constructive.

That was embarrassing tonight. I’d make an argument that 4 games in 10 days after a long season is poor. The players should have been given as much time off as possible.

That said, once they are there they have to do more. I thought Phillips was poor, never made space for himself and didn’t get on the ball forcing the back line to either keep the ball far too long, or pump it up the pitch.

When we did pick the ball up in midfield it was too slow, meaning more often then not they had to recycle possession going backwards again.

Bowen and Saka had poor games. Fatigue? Maybe. Not good enough yet, probably. Found Bowen too predictable with the ball and Saka just couldn’t pass or control a ball.

Bellingham is an odd one. I want him to be good, but I don’t see the hype (I don’t watch German football). There’s probably a player kn there but again, not yet.

The game was screaming out for Grealish. I can’t stand the lad but he gives us some intent going forward and he scares defenders. He has to be playing in these games, it’s criminal that he isn’t.

Mount actually looked tidy when he came on, but we only really did anything on the counter. We couldn’t break Hungary down and it was incredibly frustrating to watch.

im a big Southgate fan, he’s given me the two best summers watching England and he’s improved us in terms of results. I completely understand the criticism he gets though, and I said before perhaps someone else would get more out of these players now. I just don’t know who would want it and do that?

I’m not going to make a knee jerk reaction and say sack Southgate, but things change quickly in football. These 4 games have been awful so September is huge now to restore some pride. He’s still in credit with a lot of fans but he needs to learn quickly from this.

I think you will find the other teams also played 4 games in 10 days as well, other countries players have also had a long hard season yet it does not seem to have affected a lot of them has it, this constant use of fatigue for players in their teens twenties and early thirties is to me ridiculous. I'm sorry but the manager has to at least take some of the blame when you look at the players at his disposal I would have expected more.

[steveybadger]

We have 2 problems as I see it. Our central defence is reliable only when we protect it with holding midfielders  or even add a third CB. If we went gung ho and shoehorned even more attacking players in we’d be shooting ourselves in the foot. Southgate recognises this and picks his team accordingly. If Van Dyk was English we’d have a solution. But he isn’t so we don’t. And Southgate is correct that tournaments are almost always won by the most organised team (with quality thrown in)

secondly, and an issue that has always been a problem, is our midfield struggles to keep the ball against better quality teams. Until we start producing and treasuring more technical midfielders this will continue.

So overall, yes, Southgate may have had relatively kind draws in tournaments, but I actually think he’s got the most out of most players. Let’s not forget the mediocre records of every other England manager going back to Venables (who also had home advantage), and be a bit more realistic about the quality of the squad we actually have, rather than what we think we have.

[pillred]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

I've never been convinced by is basically saying I don't like but haven't yet felt justified in criticising. 

Most of The criticism up to now has been absolutely ludicrous and is more a reflection of the poisonous 'culture war' whipped up by the right wing media than football.  Southgate is obviously more Guardian than Sun so would have got both barrels at some point. 

Now they have the poor run they were dreaming of they can really go for it.  

That my friend is a ridiculous thing to say what has politics got to do with the disappointing way we have played in the last 4 games the criticism is entirely justified and I doubt they will be giving him a easy ride in the Guardian either.

[2015]

1 hour ago, Curr Avon said:

Can't win a top level Nations League game and are bottom of their group with just two measly points.

Are French fans calling for the sacking of their World Cup winning manager, Didier Deschamps?

Are they being written off for Qatar?

Are they ****.

England will bounce back under Southgate, our most successful manager since Ramsay.

 

I would imagine many France supporters are unhappy at how their extremely talented side has under performed since the 2018 WC. Deschamps should be dismissed as should Southgate imo.

I will add that there is no room for sentiment in Football these days, if you arent performing of what is expected of you for a period of time then off you go, that's why the best remain the best, it's brutal. Kind of like thanks Southgate for what you've done but we need fresh ideas

Edited June 15, 2022 by 2015

[Super]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I would imagine many France supporters are unhappy at how their extremely talented side has under performed since the 2018 WC. Deschamps should be dismissed as should Southgate imo.

I will add that there is no room for sentiment in Football these days, if you arent performing of what is expected of you for a period of time then off you go, that's why the best remain the best, it's brutal. Kind of like thanks Southgate for what you've done but we need fresh ideas

For a period of time? It's a few bad games

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Let’s be honest, if we had won that penalty shoot out against Italy there would still be people who want him out now. 

Well, yeah. Cos that would've been then but last night is now. It's all about now, Davo

[2015]

22 minutes ago, Super said:

For a period of time? It's a few bad games

I'm guessing you haven't watched our rather lukewarm displays away in Poland and at Home to Hungary at the end of last year either?

[Super]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I'm guessing you haven't watched our rather lukewarm displays away in Poland and at Home to Hungary at the end of last year either?

Two games that we didn't lose? What an overreaction.

[And Its Smith]

29 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Well, yeah. Cos that would've been then but last night is now. It's all about now, Davo

I look forward to the Pearson out calls if we lose our first two games of next season!

[And Its Smith]

Anyone who didn’t want Southgate out 4 games ago but does now should probably give their head a wobble 

[cityexile]

I mean, getting dicked 4-0 at home is not great is it.

I am never sure if GS is just a really negative coach who is safety first, or he has looked at the assets he has got, and gone 'we re going to play this way as its the best way of maximising our chances. He has got some great cup finishes. The runs were relatively easy. How do you judge that. Its really difficult to look at the Italy final and not see it as summing up GS. Took a final to a penalty shoot out, huge plus. Like Croatia before, when the game started to turn...just a complete absence of tweaking anything. Save all our subs against an obviously tiring defence for the penalty shoot out? Really?

Our tactic is keep it really tight, and hope Kane or Sterling can nick something. When under pressure against good teams we concede midfield and have to do far to much work without the ball. If its a case of actually we are a bit pants and GS is doing the best with what he has, there may both be some truth in that, and its pretty sad.

 

 

 

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, RedHienz said:

Good at beating minnows.

Great and winning friendlys.

Been tested 3 times in tournament football and that stands a 0 - 3

He lacks the tactical ability to push on, with the group of players he has the team should be able to compete consistently and imo he has achieved nothing.

That's incorrect though. Germany aren't a minnow, was definitely a test. Thumped Ukraine, say what you want about them but when have we ever thumped a team in a quarter final?

Showed great ability to beat a favoured Denmark side too. Won our first knockout penalty shoot out in how long?

I wouldn't say he's 3-0 in being "tested". I also wouldn't call Nations League "tournament football" as such.

He's about 5-2 in my book, it's just unfortunate the two losses were so dramatic, perhaps we wouldn't be so upset if we'd lost to Germany as opposed to losing the final to Italy.

Understanding of course that last night is unacceptable, but he's in credit until September at very least.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

I think you will find the other teams also played 4 games in 10 days as well, other countries players have also had a long hard season yet it does not seem to have affected a lot of them has it, this constant use of fatigue for players in their teens twenties and early thirties is to me ridiculous. I'm sorry but the manager has to at least take some of the blame when you look at the players at his disposal I would have expected more.

Germany have won 1 in 4, France doing as badly as us, Italy poor. I don't think it's an excuse, some of our players have played 50 games + all the way last summer (Germany went home early remember!)

Not sure why you mention their age - nearly all players are in that bracket, are you suggesting it's impossible for players to be fatigued?

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

I look forward to the Pearson out calls if we lose our first two games of next season!

That's not then or now. I dunno what that is

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

If we take a honest look at ourselves and actually be honest we just aren’t that good! We overachieved at the last 2 tournaments even with the the relatively easy runs we’ve had! So if we analyse the starting 11 from the euro final and see if and how they’ve kicked on and if we use the common thought in club football that the Champions league is the highest level you can play! 
 

Gk Pickford! (Everton) 

Whilst being quite Solid Always looks like he has a mistake in him! Also playing for Everton he defiantly gets no Champions League football, (Hasn’t kicked on)

Rwb Trippier (Newcastle) probably our strongest position depth wise but he’s gone from Athetico winning the la Liga and playing Champoins league to playing for Newcastle No Champions league (Hasn’t kicked on)

Cb Walker (Man City) plays mostly RB for Man City he’s solid but like the a formation strength at Rb/Rwb gets shoehorn into the team at cb and doesn’t usually let us down plays Champions league football

Cb Stones (Man City) been in and out of the Man City Team the past few seasons at one point looking like he was going up for sale but when given a run of games and be consistent he’s probably our most talented CB, Plays Champions League.

Cb Maguire (Man Utd) he’s a difficult one last season became a meme and a bit of a running joke! His form was terrible and he is prone to clangers but was usually solid for England! I think if you pick on club form then there’s no way he could be included and it would probably do him good to step out of the firing line to recompose himself. 
next season no Champions league football.

Lwb Shaw (Man Utd) was solid the whole tournament and scored in the final but a inconsistent season last year plus injuries means he hasn’t kicked on from then and that is likely to be his peak! No Champions league next year!

Cm Phillips (Leeds)

this is where we fall down most in terms of squad strength, Can you see him playing for the one of the best Club teams in the world? 26 years old never played European football let alone Champions league! 
 

Cm Rice (West Ham) never Played Champions league although does seem to have some ability!

Lw/lam Mount (Chelsea) he’s a funny one a bit marmite! Like a lot of players of his flits in and out of games but is young has time to work his weaknesses! Plays Champions league!

Rw/Ram Sterling (Man City) Great player probably should score more but is one of our better players! Play Champions league. 
 

Cf Kane (Tottenham) not sure I need to say much about him key player in our team! Plays champion league Football! 
 

now I’m not saying it’s the be all and end all but all the best players play champions league football and by playing the best it’s the best way to learn and improve! But you look at it objectively only 3 (Kane, Walker and Sterling) maybe Stones at a push are considered key players in regular Champions league playing teams so maybe we just ain’t as good as we think we are!

 

[The Bard]

3 hours ago, Atticus said:

Complete nonsense used as excuses by Guardian readers.

Ive seen no hate at all on Southgate by any "ring wing" outlets. He's hardly had it the same as Eriksson (personal life stuff) Mclaren or Hodgson.

The criticism is due to performances, team selections and tactics.

An easy obvious recent example is the 1-0 loss to Hungary. 5 at the back with 2 defensive mids in front. Its infuriating and frustrating to see us set up like that when we are clearly more talented going forward. Last night may not of shown it, but the players looked clueless.  Thats down to him. He has no idea how to utilise attack minded players. He is to scared to lose. 

Plus a complete lack of experience. It was a barmy appointment to begin with imo. He did well, I think that time has been and gone now. 

It's not nonsense. The sniping at him has always been with accusations of 'woke' and political correctness. That's political. 

[Sheltons Army]

4 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Working on passing patterns to get the ball out of his back seven. Hopefully he wont continue thinking Phillips in front of the multiple CB's is a player maker. Possession is well and good but by the time the ball enters the final third, if it does at all it has moss on it. 

 

I think Phants q and my reply was about City 

I may be wrong !

[The Bard]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

To an extent that’s true yes. My gut feeling about him has always been negative. Similar to when we appointed Holden in many ways.

His tournament record is obviously very good - I just feel he won’t win us a tournament and risks wasting this talented group of players. 

I’m not too bothered about his politics of personal views - I’m purely talking about him as a manager. 

I got that which is why I pointedly referred to the criticism up till now. Most of it from people who've never watched an England game or who play football manager a lot. 

Overall I think he's done an excellent job. However, he has royally ballsed up his approach these last 4 weeks and I fear it will create a negative momentum going into the tournament.  

He let Henderson have a rest. Should've been 8 or 9 others as well. If we'd got the same results with 2nd/3rd choice players few would've really complained as even the most myopic could see that resting these players was done for the right reasons.  His desire to test combinations has proved futile and brought a lot of pressure on him. He also cannot be any wiser about some of the newer players as they got dragged down by their more experienced, knackered team mates.

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I look forward to the Pearson out calls if we lose our first two games of next season!

You clearly don’t get the difference between Club Management and International and being Manager of England

Even ignoring it was one of our few chances to prepare for the WC and fwiw it was the equivalent of us losing 4-0 at home against Stockport which undoubtedly attract many calls for Pearson’s head

 

Ill remind you

Remaining doubts about his defensive mind and lack of tactical nous

4 games , 

Two defeats to Hungary

1 goal , a penalty

Outplayed for significant periods by Italy and Germany when Pickford And Ramsdale saved defeats

And the WORST home defeat by margin (Ignoring the fact it was Hungary :laugh: , not an all conquering Brazil side)

IN 94 YEARS

 

Thats some achievement

 

You appear to have your blind faith in Johnson syndrome reoccurring 

[And Its Smith]

Just now, Sheltons Army said:

You clearly don’t get the difference between Club Management and International and being Manager of England

Even ignoring it was one of our few chances to prepare for the WC and fwiw it was the equivalent of us losing 4-0 at home against Stockport which undoubtedly attract many calls for Pearson’s head

 

Ill remind you

Remaining doubts about his defensive mind and lack of tactical nous

4 games , 

Two defeats to Hungary

1 goal , a penalty

Outplayed for significant periods by Italy and Germany when Pickford And Ramsdale saved defeats

And the WORST home defeat by margin (Ignoring the fact it was Hungary , not an all conquering Brazil side)

IN 94 YEARS

 

Thats some achievement

 

You appear to have your blind faith in Johnson syndrome reoccurring 

What a bizarre rant in response to a light hearted comment about fans short term thinking.  For the record, I don’t particularly care about the England team or Southgate.  It is funny that you mention the 94 year record and don’t mention that he got us to a major final last year for the first time for ages.  Some fans have a personal dislike for Southgate it seems and focus on the negatives whilst ignoring the positives.  Goodness only knows why 

[Sheltons Army]

5 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

What a bizarre rant in response to a light hearted comment about fans short term thinking.  For the record, I don’t particularly care about the England team or Southgate.  It is funny that you mention the 94 year record and don’t mention that he got us to a major final last year for the first time for ages.  Some fans have a personal dislike for Southgate it seems and focus on the negatives whilst ignoring the positives.  Goodness only knows why 

Funny how , when you get a response to your nonsense comments that it’s always ‘it was a lighthearted comment / joke’ 

 

PS - It’s not a rant , it’s facts -

 unlike you who aligns himself to anything foreign I am proud to be English , and last night was as bad as I’ve seen in my lifetime , including many awful showings as I followed them across the World

It was simply , a shambolic embarrassment

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Funny how , when you get a response to your nonsense comments that it’s always ‘it was a lighthearted comment / joke’ 

 

Well clearly I don’t think that Pearson Out comments will happen if we lose the first two games!!  If we are in the bottom 3 in November though, there will a fair bit of it.  

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Some of our players have come out of a very challenging domestic campaign, into this nations league set of games, with a very small gap and then a new preseason will be on them.  I'm finding it hard to feel the love for the nations league if I'm honest, it feels like a lot of extra games. 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Well clearly I don’t think that Pearson Out comments will happen if we lose the first two games!!  If we are in the bottom 3 in November though, there will a fair bit of it.  

You know our fans right, we lose a couple of friendlies and the haters will be all over Pearson. 

[And Its Smith]

5 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

You know our fans right, we lose a couple of friendlies and the haters will be all over Pearson. 

There are fans who use football as an avenue to moan and be negative.  Think it’s getting worse as well.  

[DaveInSA]

I be like, literally nobody cares. 

it's June. There's cricket on (and England are actually good) and UEFA rams this absolute shite tournament down our necks. As if we don't get enough football. What a complete joke. 

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

There are fans who use football as an avenue to moan and be negative.  Think it’s getting worse as well.  

I don’t agree with everything you say but on that I could not agree more tbh.

[pillred]

5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Germany have won 1 in 4, France doing as badly as us, Italy poor. I don't think it's an excuse, some of our players have played 50 games + all the way last summer (Germany went home early remember!)

Not sure why you mention their age - nearly all players are in that bracket, are you suggesting it's impossible for players to be fatigued?

 

No but I find it incredible that after even a week off players that age would be tired, that's all.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, pillred said:

No but I find it incredible that after even a week off players that age would be tired, that's all.

You’ve used fatigue and tired there as if they are the same thing. There’s more to fatigue than just “tired”. Theres also mental fatigue, at the end of the day this is a job to them. Players deserve time off to recharge the batteries and enjoy time with their families.

Given the Euros were played a year later and we’ve got a World Cup I think it was silly to squeeze a Nations League in this year personally.

 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

You’ve used fatigue and tired there as if they are the same thing. There’s more to fatigue than just “tired”. Theres also mental fatigue, at the end of the day this is a job to them. Players deserve time off to recharge the batteries and enjoy time with their families.

Given the Euros were played a year later and we’ve got a World Cup I think it was silly to squeeze a Nations League in this year personally.

 

There was a decent interval between the season finishing and the Nations league, we have all had jobs I got a coupe of weeks off twice a year if I was lucky, why would playing a game you loved make you fatigued? I'm sorry but I just don't buy it, sorry but we will have to agree to disagree.

[Super]

6 minutes ago, pillred said:

There was a decent interval between the season finishing and the Nations league, we have all had jobs I got a coupe of weeks off twice a year if I was lucky, why would playing a game you loved make you fatigued? I'm sorry but I just don't buy it, sorry but we will have to agree to disagree.

You're talking nonsense in fairness. 

[pillred]

1 hour ago, Super said:

You're talking nonsense in fairness. 

Go on then explain yourself instead of insulting me. How is playing football going to make you mentally or physically tired or fatigued after a two week break I will be interested to hear as I'm sure a lot of other people with far more demanding and stressful jobs that don't pay £100,000 grand a week will be.

[Davefevs]

52 minutes ago, pillred said:

Go on then explain yourself instead of insulting me. How is playing football going to make you mentally or physically tired or fatigued after a two week break I will be interested to hear as I'm sure a lot of other people with far more demanding and stressful jobs that don't pay £100,000 grand a week will be.

Forget the two week “holiday” which for a professional player will still involve a daily routine of stretching, exercising, etc…just forget that.  Our seasons are workload heavy.  Most other leagues play 34 league games, less importance is put on cups, etc.

It is possible to go “stale” if nothing else (covering both mental and physical fatigue) from playing and training lots.  Happens below pro level too.

For info, playing football as a professional is much more than playing 90 minutes once or twice a week, it’s a daily routine of discipline, sacrifice for which the minority are paid handsomely.

Comparing it to other jobs and then using the amount of money versus stress as rationale is very naive and without trying to sound insulting shows a complete lack of understanding of the world of professional football, the short career and the stresses that places on a player, knowing that your shelf-life isn’t 40 years of employment (like you or I) in your skilled area, but on average 6-8 years of maximising pay to set you and your family up for a fair chunk of the rest of your life.

Do we have have to perform in front of thousands too?  Do the media write and comment about you to millions.

[johnbytheriver]

Sporting bodies are more powerful than the law! So uefa decided on the verge of a world cup,and with the season starting early to carry on and play the nations league.Thus giving players no break .Kevin De Bruyne described these games as glorified friendlies and that is exactly what they are.But uefa has spoken so we must obey! All players should be resting now and preparing for the coming season.Not bothered by the England results,come the world cup the commitment, the team selection will be on a much higher level.and we should get out of the group stage easily enough(famous last words) I don't believe we will wn the world cup,although we have a great crop of players. And i am not calling for Southgate's head even though i am not a fan.Descisions or lack of descisions he made during the WC semi and the euro final cost us dearly.1-0 up at the break against Croatia,not Germany or Brazil or Argentina but Croatia!! In the 2nd half we seemed drained of energy and devoid of ideas,in the euro finals we took a very early lead,and then just went back and back and disappeared up our own backsides in a cloud of blue smoke,then came the penalty debacle! For my money he is mister safety first,and does not trust the flair players,and cannot make the right calls during a game.Happy to be proved wrong. 

 

[pillred]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Forget the two week “holiday” which for a professional player will still involve a daily routine of stretching, exercising, etc…just forget that.  Our seasons are workload heavy.  Most other leagues play 34 league games, less importance is put on cups, etc.

It is possible to go “stale” if nothing else (covering both mental and physical fatigue) from playing and training lots.  Happens below pro level too.

For info, playing football as a professional is much more than playing 90 minutes once or twice a week, it’s a daily routine of discipline, sacrifice for which the minority are paid handsomely.

Comparing it to other jobs and then using the amount of money versus stress as rationale is very naive and without trying to sound insulting shows a complete lack of understanding of the world of professional football, the short career and the stresses that places on a player, knowing that your shelf-life isn’t 40 years of employment (like you or I) in your skilled area, but on average 6-8 years of maximising pay to set you and your family up for a fair chunk of the rest of your life.

Do we have have to perform in front of thousands too?  Do the media write and comment about you to millions.

There may well be mental pressures on players, it's the players look tired physically bit I don't get, surely after even a weeks rest a young and they are young players should not be tired and that's the excuse I have been hearing time and time again for England's poor performances in the Nations league.

[Cowshed]

11 hours ago, pillred said:

There was a decent interval between the season finishing and the Nations league, we have all had jobs I got a coupe of weeks off twice a year if I was lucky, why would playing a game you loved make you fatigued? I'm sorry but I just don't buy it, sorry but we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Because the game is physical and mental. A player cannot physically maintain physical fitness for an entire season, or an extended season. Fitness morphs over months. Fitness over a season diminishes frequently. Pre-season training involves threshold training. Players will be exerted over normal physical norms to gain a physical peak at the start of the season. This training to attain that physical peak cannot be endured physically season long, the body will fail, and players bodies over a season have to fatigue. 

With respect the game of football cannot be compared to normal employment. I work in an industry that is extremely stressful, but the stresses cant be compared to football. I don’t go into work expected to be in a aggressive intense challenge state. My work doesn’t fill my body full of performance and stress inducing hormones. I do not experience extreme highs of emotion in my work.  I also do not have employment that strips me of my autonomy in the same manner as  foootball does to individuals. To play football you effectively surrender aspects of your personality to a coaches/Managers direction, to a game.

I loved football and train train game at Tiverton train train game at Taunton ****** my head months into a season.

.

 

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, pillred said:

There may well be mental pressures on players, it's the players look tired physically bit I don't get, surely after even a weeks rest a young and they are young players should not be tired and that's the excuse I have been hearing time and time again for England's poor performances in the Nations league.

31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Because the game is physical and mental

Nutshell….and the stuff you posted below it to explain.

[city1983]

On 14/06/2022 at 22:56, Rossi the Robin said:

People say it’s an easy run but they must have beaten the better teams somewhere down the line - I don’t get why people say that, it’s all about form 

Simply look at the fixtures. Every game in those tournaments we should have won. the World Cup completely opened up for us with the luck of the draw. And we nearly blew it against Columbia goi g to penalties.

I don’t think we’ll have anywhere near that luck again and expect us to crash out early doors

[Rossi the Robin]

2 hours ago, city1983 said:

Simply look at the fixtures. Every game in those tournaments we should have won. the World Cup completely opened up for us with the luck of the draw. And we nearly blew it against Columbia goi g to penalties.

I don’t think we’ll have anywhere near that luck again and expect us to crash out early doors

Should have won?? Why do you think they got through?? must have beaten better teams but failed to beat us

We have had ‘easy’ routes many times before and failed