Have your say! SC&T 2022 Survey

[Blagdon red]

The SC&T would like to know your views on a variety of issues, so that when we're talking to the club about these things we can correctly reflect fans' views.

So, please spare 10 minutes to complete this survey:

SC&T 2022 Supporters Survey

Thanks!

PS: Please note that the link will work only once on any given device. So, if other family members want to complete the survey, they will need to do so on another device (PC, tablet or mobile).

[Bristol Rob]

Completed it as well as I could.

Didn't realise you can leave things blank!

Also, regarding the section about racist/sexist abuse, might be a more accurate survey if you said 'within the last 'x' number of years, I said 'yes' to all of it as it was common when I started going.

Finally, how do you get to Gate... there was no taxi/uber option! (Or electric scooter).

[ExiledAjax]

Yeh worth noting that if you don't want to or can't fill a section out then scroll down and click NEXT and it will just take you to he next section.

[Bristol Rob]

Also, would be better if there were two surveys, one for the men's team and one for the women.

[Sleepy1968]

33 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Completed it as well as I could.

Didn't realise you can leave things blank!

Also, regarding the section about racist/sexist abuse, might be a more accurate survey if you said 'within the last 'x' number of years, I said 'yes' to all of it as it was common when I started going.

Finally, how do you get to Gate... there was no taxi/uber option! (Or electric scooter).

Agreed. I did the same as you and then answered in a follow up question that it happened in the 1980s.

[Rich]

This might not be popular but I support Bristol City Football Club. I have absolutely no interest in womens football. The womens team is an addition and I don't as such recognise their association to my team, I only support one team. It holds no interest for me, I have nothing against womens sport but I don't want to see it. Fortunately I was allowed to omit comments on it. Do we have a darts team, skittles team, fishing team, quiz team? If we do, then why not include these in the survey. Add the under 23's and academy teams as well, if this is about inclusivity, which it seems to be.

[TBW]

I got bored and quit reading. Primarily because it felt long as ****, answering all the same questions for Bristol City AND Bristol City Women.

I get it now I've seen here that you can leave answers blank but I didn't realise at the time and most won't either... and most also won't care about the women so they'll drop in useless answers to get through the pages that then skew your results.

Two different surveys. Sure, the women's will get less responses but they'll be from people who give a shit.

Edited July 22, 2022 by TBW

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Rich said:

This might not be popular but I support Bristol City Football Club. I have absolutely no interest in womens football. The womens team is an addition and I don't as such recognise their association to my team, I only support one team. It holds no interest for me, I have nothing against womens sport but I don't want to see it. Fortunately I was allowed to omit comments on it. Do we have a darts team, skittles team, fishing team, quiz team? If we do, then why not include these in the survey. Add the under 23's and academy teams as well, if this is about inclusivity, which it seems to be.

The women's team is literally owned by the men's team. It is part of the fabric and make-up of the same Club. I don't watch their games, or care who they sign, but I support their inclusion within the wider Club. They have fans that wear the club's badge, and fans that care deeply about the Club.

As you say, you were allowed to omit or avoid answering those sections. It took you a few second to skip them, just as it took me. I skipped it and moved on with life.

If you want to exclude the women's team from discussions then, as you say in your post, you support Bristol City Men's Football Team, you don't support Bristol City Football Club.

Edited July 22, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[TBW]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

If you want to exclude the women's team from discussions then, as you say in your post, you support Bristol City Men's Football Team, you don't support Bristol City Football Club.

Incorrect.

One is called Bristol City Women's Football Club. The other is called Bristol City Football Club.

I appreciate the sentiment but your logic is flawed.

I didn't realise at first that the questions being asked were about the women and wondered why I was being asked the same questions a second time. Perhaps if they want to get both surveys done by all, why not put all the men's team questions first and at the end ask "would you like to continue and answer with regard to Bristol City Women?" much like how many online surveys ask if you want to continue and submit ethnicity data.

[Rich]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

The women's team is literally owned by the men's team. It is part of the fabric and make-up of the same Club. I don't watch their games, or care who they sign, but I support their inclusion within the wider Club. They have fans that wear the club's badge, and fans that care deeply about the Club.

As you say, you were allowed to omit or avoid answering those sections. It took you a few second to skip them, just as it took me. I skipped it and moved on with life.

If you want to exclude the women's team from discussions then, as you say in your post, you support Bristol City Men's Football Team, you don't support Bristol City Football Club.

With respect, I disagree. When I attend Ashton Gate I go to support Bristol City, or if  someone asks what team I support I say Bristol City, the team and things that benefit the team, like the pathway to the team. Anything else is part of the overall umbrella, they are seperate from my team and I'm sure they're not included in the ffp football league rules.

[thatcham red]

Thanks for all your feedback and comments.

The opening paragraph in the survey now makes it clearer that you can skip questions or whole sections. Average completion time is 11 minutes.

Cheers

[freezer]

Gave up when I saw the Transgender question. 

[TBW]

32 minutes ago, thatcham red said:

Thanks for all your feedback and comments.

The opening paragraph in the survey now makes it clearer that you can skip questions or whole sections. Average completion time is 11 minutes.

Cheers

Most don't read paragraphs before a survey either. It's a multiple choice opinion survey. It shouldn't need paragraphs.

These are two surveys and you've car crashed them together into one. They need to be entirely separate or the women's accessible at the end via a "would you like to continue..." question.

[Bristol Rob]

If you are taking further feedback, some questions might benefit from being able to select more than one answer.

Also, doing the survey on a mobile, once you had selected something whilst trying to scroll past it, it didn't seem possible to then select nothing.

Long story short, not sure what you expect to learn from this, I don't imagine it will be an accurate reflection of supporters views.

[Sir Geoff]

6 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Completed it as well as I could.

Didn't realise you can leave things blank!

Also, regarding the section about racist/sexist abuse, might be a more accurate survey if you said 'within the last 'x' number of years, I said 'yes' to all of it as it was common when I started going.

Finally, how do you get to Gate... there was no taxi/uber option! (Or electric scooter).

Funny I answered no as I assumed it meant the last few years..Probably why I was cr*p at exams never read the question properly, although my finger was poised over yes as I started going in the 70,s when it was rife 

[spudski]

Looking through the options for answers...I think it would be more informative to the club if there was an option of...not interested...or couldn't care less.

I literally have no positive or negative opinion on questions I have no interest in or couldn't care less about. 

I should imagine others are the same.

That way the club could actually see what fans are interested in, rather than assuming we have opinions or interests in what has been asked.

[ralphindevon]

I hope the older fan like me, been going since the top flight days, ticking the yes we’ve heard racist abuse at Ashton Gate box, hasn’t skewed the figures.

As others have suggested it would be a very different outcome if they’d asked, in the last 5/10 years.

[Norn Iron]

Couple of questions that on the grand scale of annoyance most probably wouldn't score too highly BUT....

Regarding transport there was no tick box for plane. I attended 2 games last season. Without Easyjet, I wouldn't have been at QPR or Stoke.

And finally.... the question where do I live in the UK? I can hear a certain dead  politician spinning in his grave....I was offered the choice of England, Scotland, Wales or outside Great Britain. Firstly, Northern Ireland is PART OF THE UK.. Secondly, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Great Britain. I can't, therefore, answer this blatantly racist question!

I feel excluded and I feel unwanted as a result. I wish I had never gone to school and have learned the difference between UK and GB.. If only I hadn't married a Northern Irish girl and moved over here then I could have answered this question. 

I'm so upset, I'll have to open a beer. I can't have a Thatchers as the local Tesco has sold out. And don't g

 

[Norn Iron]

get me going on the heatwave. What heatwave? Mind blowin' decision not to have it here me thinks!

[Norn Iron]

Stop press.... just went to the fridge to get a beer  and found a hidden Thatcher's Gold. 

Life is officially good again.

Happiness is a cider called Thatcher's.

[A Horse With No Name]

22 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Couple of questions that on the grand scale of annoyance most probably wouldn't score too highly BUT....

Regarding transport there was no tick box for plane. I attended 2 games last season. Without Easyjet, I wouldn't have been at QPR or Stoke.

And finally.... the question where do I live in the UK? I can hear a certain dead  politician spinning in his grave....I was offered the choice of England, Scotland, Wales or outside Great Britain. Firstly, Northern Ireland is PART OF THE UK.. Secondly, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Great Britain. I can't, therefore, answer this blatantly racist question!

I feel excluded and I feel unwanted as a result. I wish I had never gone to school and have learned the difference between UK and GB.. If only I hadn't married a Northern Irish girl and moved over here then I could have answered this question. 

I'm so upset, I'll have to open a beer. I can't have a Thatchers as the local Tesco has sold out. And don't g

 

You'll have a field day with British Isles then. 

[Henry]

I’d like to actually hear and see what the trust do now a days. I don’t remember seeing anything for a long that actually seeks fans views, challenges the club then feedbacks. Arranging the awards and the odd do is great and all that.

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, Henry said:

I’d like to actually hear and see what the trust do now a days. I don’t remember seeing anything for a long that actually seeks fans views, challenges the club then feedbacks. Arranging the awards and the odd do is great and all that.

You're literally commenting on a thread where the SC&T asks for fans views, which are being gathered so that they can be presented as a challenge to the Club. 

2 hours ago, spudski said:

I literally have no positive or negative opinion on questions I have no interest in or couldn't care less about. 

I should imagine others are the same.

That way the club could actually see what fans are interested in, rather than assuming we have opinions or interests in what has been asked.

You can skip questions that you have no interest in or don't care about. If others do that then those questions show up as ignored and the SC&T will see that. So it's all good feedback.

4 hours ago, TBW said:

One is called Bristol City Women's Football Club. The other is called Bristol City Football Club.

I appreciate the sentiment but your logic is flawed.

I didn't realise at first that the questions being asked were about the women and wondered why I was being asked the same questions a second time.

Did you then read the question? Maybe that could have been your first option?

As for being wrong. No, I'm not wrong. The company that owns the contracts and EFL share that relate to the men's team also owns all of the shares in the company that owns the contracts and share (or equivalent) in the women's team. This means it is a 100% subsidiary and is part of the wider football club Group. The women's team is legally a part of the men's team.

3 hours ago, TBW said:

Most don't read paragraphs before a survey either.

One option is to read words and understand them.

3 hours ago, Rich said:

With respect, I disagree. When I attend Ashton Gate I go to support Bristol City, or if  someone asks what team I support I say Bristol City, the team and things that benefit the team, like the pathway to the team. Anything else is part of the overall umbrella, they are seperate from my team and I'm sure they're not included in the ffp football league rules.

With respect you are incorrect. I understand your feelings but you misunderstand what "Bristol City Football Club" is. It's not just the men's first XI. The SC&T represents all fans, of all parts of the Club, and publishes one survey to cover all of it.

As for FFP, the entity that reports for that purpose is Bristol City Holdings Limited, that company owns Bristol City Football Club Limited, and that entity owns Bristol City Women's Football Club Limited, so the women's team is ultimately included.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

[ExiledAjax]

56 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Couple of questions that on the grand scale of annoyance most probably wouldn't score too highly BUT....

Regarding transport there was no tick box for plane. I attended 2 games last season. Without Easyjet, I wouldn't have been at QPR or Stoke.

And finally.... the question where do I live in the UK? I can hear a certain dead  politician spinning in his grave....I was offered the choice of England, Scotland, Wales or outside Great Britain. Firstly, Northern Ireland is PART OF THE UK.. Secondly, Northern Ireland is NOT part of Great Britain. I can't, therefore, answer this blatantly racist question!

I feel excluded and I feel unwanted as a result. I wish I had never gone to school and have learned the difference between UK and GB.. If only I hadn't married a Northern Irish girl and moved over here then I could have answered this question. 

I'm so upset, I'll have to open a beer. I can't have a Thatchers as the local Tesco has sold out. And don't g

 

This is a legitimate piece of feedback. Congratulations mate.

[Rich]

47 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

You're literally commenting on a thread where the SC&T asks for fans views, which are being gathered so that they can be presented as a challenge to the Club. 

You can skip questions that you have no interest in or don't care about. If others do that then those questions show up as ignored and the SC&T will see that. So it's all good feedback.

Did you then read the question? Maybe that could have been your first option?

As for being wrong. No, I'm not wrong. The company that owns the contracts and EFL share that relate to the men's team also owns all of the shares in the company that owns the contracts and share (or equivalent) in the women's team. This means it is a 100% subsidiary and is part of the wider football club Group. The women's team is legally a part of the men's team.

One option is to read words and understand them.

With respect you are incorrect. I understand your feelings but you misunderstand what "Bristol City Football Club" is. It's not just the men's first XI. The SC&T represents all fans, of all parts of the Club, and publishes one survey to cover all of it.

As for FFP, the entity that reports for that purpose is Bristol City Holdings Limited, that company owns Bristol City Football Club Limited, and that entity owns Bristol City Women's Football Club Limited, so the women's team is ultimately included.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

 

Are you telling me that the wages of players, coaches, physio's, and all related expenses related to the womens team, along with the income from games, is included in the calculations relating to ffp and submitted to the football league? I think you are wrong and, their finances are seperate from the mens team, even if they have a parent company.

I started supporting my team in 1966 and it's only in recent times that the club have incorporated a womens team. Probably to try and increase the customer base as a whole. The previous associated team was abandonned. So forgive me if I personally don't recognise them as my team.

As for representative of all supporters by the SC&T, it plainly is not. Otherwise there wouldn't be those questioning the survey. I'm certain it doesn't represent the whole views of our supporter base, merely those that choose to be a part of it..

[Dave L]

5 hours ago, Rich said:

 I have nothing against womens sport but I don't want to see it. Fortunately I was allowed to omit comments on it.

Then why make such a fuss about it? You seem to be criticising the SC&T for giving you the option to not comment on something that you didn't want to comment on in the first place.

[One Team]

I appreciate you taking the time to do it, although some of the questions weren’t worded in such a way that I felt I could answer them effectively. 

In terms of other feedback, I didn’t note questions regarding old people, the disabled or our very young fans and their experience of the club. Perhaps this could be included? 

Also questions were missing on stewarding, policing and in terms of questions on atmosphere it seemed to focus on the negative aspects of it not the positives (not having goal celebration music being one huge plus!).

Well done for doing it though I can’t imagine it was quick to do. 

[pongo88]

The reasonable attempt at a survey but some of questions and answer options could been designed in a better way. Also, I though the section on safe standing was designed from the perspective that the club should have more. If you’re designing a survey you should put aside your own preferences and make the questions neutral. 

[Rich]

9 hours ago, Dave L said:

Then why make such a fuss about it? You seem to be criticising the SC&T for giving you the option to not comment on something that you didn't want to comment on in the first place.

Not making a fuss, just using a format available to me to express an opinion. Just as you have. If you don't like it, don't make a fuss about it.

[thatcham red]

Thanks everyone for feeding back on this, Agreed, it isn't perfect, but we can use the learning for future years.

Good points about geography, including questions relating to older fans, the disabled and stewarding. I guess we were a bit conscious of how long it was getting.

And yes, it did take a long time to compile!

Cheers

[Bristol Rob]

6 minutes ago, thatcham red said:

Thanks everyone for feeding back on this, Agreed, it isn't perfect, but we can use the learning for future years.

Good points about geography, including questions relating to older fans, the disabled and stewarding. I guess we were a bit conscious of how long it was getting.

And yes, it did take a long time to compile!

Cheers

Might be an idea to scrap that survey and to do another one.

An example being the question around racism.

In theory, however many thousand who were in attendance when we played Millwall at home would have heard them booing players taking the knee. (And I believe there have been home fans who don't support the jesture either), so it will either be a case of people not thinking about what constitutes racism, or Ashton Gate being as tolerant as a Trump rally when the results get published.

Splitting the men and women's teams in to two different surveys would also be useful.

Appreciate that a lot of time probably went in to preparing it, but I can't see the results telling a story that reflects the thoughts of anyone.

[TBW]

12 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

One option is to read words and understand them.

Another is to make a survey as simple and intuitive to the MAJORITY as possible. And the majority do not give a ****.

[TBW]

12 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Whenever ANYONE ends something that isn't a TED talk with that line, they only make themselves look like a pedantic knobhead. Well done.

[Norn Iron]

13 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Might be an idea to scrap that survey and to do another one.

An example being the question around racism.

In theory, however many thousand who were in attendance when we played Millwall at home would have heard them booing players taking the knee. (And I believe there have been home fans who don't support the jesture either), so it will either be a case of people not thinking about what constitutes racism, or Ashton Gate being as tolerant as a Trump rally when the results get published.

Splitting the men and women's teams in to two different surveys would also be useful.

Appreciate that a lot of time probably went in to preparing it, but I can't see the results telling a story that reflects the thoughts of anyone.

Having been trained in the art of developing questionnaires, I  doubt ifit was written by a professional in this line of business. 

A good try by someone within BCFC but I left too many blank questions. As already pointed out, I heard massive amounts of horrible racist abuse directed at a Forest player. I decided not to answer it as it was when we were in the old First Div over 40 years ago. Yet the question said Had I Ever Heard at the Gate. We've moved on since 1979 and had I answered Yes the survey report could have serious misleading answers based in this question alone.

[ExiledAjax]

4 hours ago, TBW said:

Another is to make a survey as simple and intuitive to the MAJORITY as possible. And the majority do not give a ****.

Honestly, I used to think like this as well. It really annoyed me that the women's team was promoted and pushed by the Club. I liked football as a bloke's sport, I also thought that the majority should rule and touted that as a reason to ignore and disregard the women's side of things.

Then I spoke to a few people who do like women's football, and who like the City women's team. Speaking to them changed my mind on it. It's part of the Club, the Club that is forever evolving and changing. It's healthy to have that evolution, and it's good.

At the same time this SC&T survey is prepared and distributed by volunteers who do it for free because they love our Club. Again I used to have certain views of the SC&T, and again actually engaging with them and speaking to them has changed those views.

It's a survey. You can skip bits, and you can choose to move on and do something else that makes you feel positive. Next year maybe you could offer to help prepare the survey, I know the SC&T guys would welcome any help they can get. Then it could be better, gather better data, and help inform in a superior way.

PS. I'm sorry for the annoyance caused by the TED talk comment. That was clearly a step too far.

[TBW]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Honestly, I used to think like this as well. It really annoyed me that the women's team was promoted and pushed by the Club. I liked football as a bloke's sport, I also thought that the majority should rule and touted that as a reason to ignore and disregard the women's side of things.

Then I spoke to a few people who do like women's football, and who like the City women's team. Speaking to them changed my mind on it. It's part of the Club, the Club that is forever evolving and changing. It's healthy to have that evolution, and it's good.

At the same time this SC&T survey is prepared and distributed by volunteers who do it for free because they love our Club. Again I used to have certain views of the SC&T, and again actually engaging with them and speaking to them has changed those views.

It's a survey. You can skip bits, and you can choose to move on and do something else that makes you feel positive. Next year maybe you could offer to help prepare the survey, I know the SC&T guys would welcome any help they can get. Then it could be better, gather better data, and help inform in a superior way.

PS. I'm sorry for the annoyance caused by the TED talk comment. That was clearly a step too far.

I'm not disregarding them, I'm saying they two surveys shouldn't be mixed together like they are.

Most fans of this club don't particularly care about how the women's team do. You can tell this simply by looking at attendances. We grew up supporting the main Bristol City team, we've been with them through thick and thin. The women's team... we can't be expected to just have a passion for them out of nowhere just because they're associated. Typically, radio button survey enforce you to select an answer, it's just what you get used to over years and because of this people will select something to bypass the women's sections of the survey, not realising they could've left it blank. By doing so they are negatively effecting the results - If they select something, they effect it negatively... If they leave it blank, the people viewing the results don't know if it's because the person filling the survey doesn't care or genuinely just isn't sure of a response.

The best way to get distinct results is to separate the surveys. Sure, add the women's one on the end, have it say "WOULD YOU HAVE FIVE MORE MINUTES TO ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT BCFC WOMEN?" and let it go through to it. If people say no, they don't give a shit and won't negatively effect the results. It's as simple as that. Having a mish-mash back-and-forth between the two clubs in the survey is a mess, it's confusing and gets you out of thinking deeply about one subject. The two clubs are not one subject... if they were, the questions wouldn't need to be asked twice in the first place.

 

[Barrs Court Red]

Not the best survey I’ve ever seen unfortunately.   

[ExiledAjax]

17 minutes ago, TBW said:

I'm not disregarding them, I'm saying they two surveys shouldn't be mixed together like they are.

Most fans of this club don't particularly care about how the women's team do. You can tell this simply by looking at attendances. We grew up supporting the main Bristol City team, we've been with them through thick and thin. The women's team... we can't be expected to just have a passion for them out of nowhere just because they're associated. Typically, radio button survey enforce you to select an answer, it's just what you get used to over years and because of this people will select something to bypass the women's sections of the survey, not realising they could've left it blank. By doing so they are negatively effecting the results - If they select something, they effect it negatively... If they leave it blank, the people viewing the results don't know if it's because the person filling the survey doesn't care or genuinely just isn't sure of a response.

The best way to get distinct results is to separate the surveys. Sure, add the women's one on the end, have it say "WOULD YOU HAVE FIVE MORE MINUTES TO ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT BCFC WOMEN?" and let it go through to it. If people say no, they don't give a shit and won't negatively effect the results. It's as simple as that. Having a mish-mash back-and-forth between the two clubs in the survey is a mess, it's confusing and gets you out of thinking deeply about one subject. The two clubs are not one subject... if they were, the questions wouldn't need to be asked twice in the first place.

It sounds like you'd be a really helpful contributor when next season's survey needs preparing. I'd suggest you reach out towards the end of next season and see if they'd like your help at that stage.

[BTRFTG]

If you ever wish to know how not to construct au unbiased survey, this is about as fine an example as you might ever find. It demonstrates why football fans attempting to run/influence football clubs isn't necessarily a good idea.

Pretty much all its questions are meaningless. They're constructed against assumptions and constraints not stated. Where time limited, they wholly ignore pre-requisite factors that negate the question posed. Other questions solicit opinion against premise(s) the stated conclusion for which is not logically derived. Ditto 'comparison questions' which highlight a single factor not wholly influencing the outcome referenced.

Why be concerned? The problem with this is the SC&T will use survey responses to justify the clear position they've already adopted, claiming them to reflect 'the fans' views when in reality they are nothing of the sort, they'll be skewed answers to skewed questions.

 

[shahanshahan]

Reminder that the survey closes this Friday.

If you haven't filled it out, and have several minutes to spare, please do so! Any questions/topics you are not familiar with you can skip...

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/SCandT_Survey_2022

[shahanshahan]

First in a series of articles is now out containing the findings of the survey
https://www.bristolcitysupporters.org/2022-fan-survey-results-1/

[Bristol Rob]

How many people responded to the survey and what percentage of those are season ticket holders, casual/pay on the day and what percentage are Trust members?

Pretty key to helping interpretation of the results.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Personally I feel as if there should be something in place about clubs and their stadiums. Maybe not to the extreme of thr Chelsea Pitch Owners but some sort of protection needs to be brought in. 

I think that is one of the greatest threats to football clubs. 

For example look at the mess Coventry are in. They were supposed to sell Highfield Rd to help fund the new arena and would have been given a 50% share. Instead their owners used the money from the sell to try to fund premier survival. 

That backfired and they were relegated and then had to pay 1.2 million a year rent. Eventually they refused to pay that and moved out of Cov twice and went into admin. 

This season they had all them games called off because of the pitch and now the future of the arena is in doubt now that Wasps have gone bust. Coventry can't afford to build a new stadium of their own so now they are at the mercy of whoever purchases the arena. 

Had there of been something to prevent their former owners selling off Highfield Rd then all of this would have been avoided. 

There needs to be legal protections put into place. 

 

[shahanshahan]

An update from the Supporters Club & Trust

The Supporters Club & Trust are looking for someone to work with us in structuring our next Supporters Survey for 2023, as well as evaluating our remaining results from our 2022 Supporters Survey. We shared the first set of results HERE

If you are interested in assisting us; or know someone who may be; please get in touch with us at info@bristolcitysupporters.org