Vyner - second chance

[citywest30]

Looking like Vyner seems to be starting a lot of games. Anyone else feel like he's been given another chance after being bombed out last season? Heard him and Dasilva involved in stuff with Bakinson but looks like he's taken his chance to prove he has the right attitude.

[SBB]

Title made me laugh. 

[Red Army 75]

10th chance more like

[BCFCGav]

As a cover players cover player maybe. But if he starts against Hull, that’s worrying.

[TomThumb84]

More lives than a cat has Zak.

I want all our players to succeed but I am struggling with him.

No matter how much coaching you have, natural instinct counts for a lot and he just seems to be off of it. Switches off, gets caught out, and very wasteful with the ball too.

I trust Nige though so he must see a player in there, although everyone seems to and ultimately gets let down.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'd say relatively low cost, I assume, can play a few positions- cover and utility, no he's not perfect but we are walking a bit of a financial tightrope- and we all know how things have been for us with injuries in recent years which is where multiple positions and relatively low cost kick in.

If we get an acceptable bid then sure, but if not there's no point in freezing him out entirely provided his attitude okay.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say relatively low cost, I assume, can play a few positions- cover and utility, no he's not perfect but we are walking a bit of a financial tightrope- and we all know how things have been for us with injuries in recent years which is where multiple positions and relatively low cost kick in.

If we get an acceptable bid then sure, but if not there's no point in freezing him out entirely provided his attitude okay.

We know with Nige that if your attitude isn't on point you don't get minutes........not for very long anyway. His problem is concentrating fully for the WHOLE 96 minutes.

[GrahamC]

25 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'd say relatively low cost, I assume, can play a few positions- cover and utility, no he's not perfect but we are walking a bit of a financial tightrope- and we all know how things have been for us with injuries in recent years which is where multiple positions and relatively low cost kick in.

If we get an acceptable bid then sure, but if not there's no point in freezing him out entirely provided his attitude okay.

Also worth pointing out his availability record.

Pretty sure him & Nakhi were the only 2 players to feature in every squad in the pandemic hit season.

Last year he didn’t play so much but think he was available 45/46 games.

With such small numbers, a fair few of our 31 with squad numbers have little league experience, that’s useful.

[pongo88]

I guess it shows that although his ability isn’t quite good enough his attitude is. 

[maxjak]

"Nothing could be finer than to transfer Zak Vyner in the morning?"...........Thanks to the "Carolina in the Morning" song from 1922 (And.....No.... that's not the current Rovers team formation?)

Edited July 23, 2022 by maxjak

[Numero Uno]

19 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Also worth pointing out his availability record.

Pretty sure him & Nakhi were the only 2 players to feature in every squad in the pandemic hit season.

Last year he didn’t play so much but think he was available 45/46 games.

With such small numbers, a fair few of our 31 with squad numbers have little league experience, that’s useful.

Pearson is nothing if not pragmatic and the above will be a strong consideration.

[Taylor10]

I think it’s more to do with being in the shop window and giving everyone game time at this stage.
 

It’s also worth considering he’s the only ‘natural’ right sided defender fit that can currently play on the right of a back 3. Klose playing their isn’t ideal. He’s not up to it at this level, we all know that. It’s best for all parties he moves on but at present his versatility, availability & low wages means we aren’t in a rush to get rid. I will be very surprised & worried if he starts many this season. 

[citywest30]

I just wonder if we're no longer looking for another cb as back up and he's happy for Vyner to do that role as he is also versatile. If he's sorted his attitude out maybe Pearson is OK with that.

[Bris Red]

2 hours ago, citywest30 said:

Looking like Vyner seems to be starting a lot of games. Anyone else feel like he's been given another chance after being bombed out last season? Heard him and Dasilva involved in stuff with Bakinson but looks like he's taken his chance to prove he has the right attitude.

Not for me. He has been given more than enough opportunities IMO. 

[HappyClapper]

I would imagine that Zak is currently filling in as RCB and will be replaced when Kalas is fit and ready to play. Klose has had some difficult moments playing RCB in pre season so it might be Zac v Hull. I would imagine Naismith has been charged with organising him and making sure he stays switched on. If he can keep his concentration he is a capable squad player at this level imho.

[Midred]

2 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

As a cover players cover player maybe. But if he starts against Hull, that’s worrying.

Will that be a FFS then Gav?

[Lack of Action Man]

He did okay today. Certainly didn’t look out of place. Probably has a role to play as a cover player/reserve for us, or could drop down a league and more likely be a starter. 

[JoeAman08]

I still like him. As said he is a cheap and versatile option. Isn’t there a rule you have to have so many club grown players in your match day squad? Granted that isn’t a massive issue at the minute.
 

I never understood the hate for him. He is probably a very good L1 player which makes him a good championship rotation player. If he has to play 30 times then your season probably isn’t the best. If you have a couple cbs out and need someone to throw in there there probably aren’t many better options from the bench in the division. Also think he is one of our better passers from back there. He will give it away because he can pop one into someones feet 30 yards away. He can hit that perfect ball over the top of the defence to a runner(cardiff away last season). Because he can do it he will have a few go astray. 
 

Not saying he should be starting for us. Just that for the money he is probably on and the versatility he offers, I can't understand why people are so quick to want rid of him. Towler and Idehen are good prospects but they would probably be more of a liability in a long term role than Vyner at this point. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

He hasn’t got the aggression in him to be a consistently effective defender at this level, he’s a good footballer but you only have to look as far as our new defender from Luton to see what he will never be it’s just not in him

That for me is his biggest failing…needs to be more aggressive, both aerially and on the deck.

With a talker alongside him like Naismith or Klose we might see less switching off.

As @JoeAman08says, he’s cheap cover…at least until we bring in better.

[Red-Robbo]

There's usually the odd underhit back pass or just a total failure to pick up a goal threat, from Zak. He'll have a decent 89 minutes, but the minutes he has switched off for have cost us numerous goals.

I guess if no one wanted him, we're stuck with him for a while, but my heart sinks a bit when I see his name on the team sheet. 

[wendyredredrobin]

Zak switches off much too often to be a viable championship centre back.  Pretty much every time I've seen him he has been responsible for conceding a goal and there have been countless times he has lost his man in the box but been fortunate to get away with it.  The problem is that he doesn't seem to improve either.

[REDOXO]

A lot of opinion on Vyner's past performances and issues. Can anyone, who saw it. give an appraisal of his performance today?

I always think people get better with experience and with age, the fact he has a few starts under his belt may mean Mr Pearson thinks the same

[BCFCGav]

55 minutes ago, Midred said:

Will that be a FFS then Gav?

If the team sheet comes out and he’s on it I’ll back him. The FFS only comes if he drops a clanger

[HitchinRed]

3 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

However I think this is shop window stuff, more than owt.

I really can’t believe that Nige is only playing Zak in order to drum up interest in him - this isn’t his MO. If Nige doesn’t like a player, he doesn’t get anywhere near the pitch. Simple as.

if he’s playing him, it’s because he wants to how / where he can be used in the team.

[AshtonRobin21]

A blessing to Zak may be our current lack of options at RCB. When Kalas returns, Vyner will be pushed down the pecking order again. 

Most of our centre backs prefer to play on the left hand side. And Klose does not look the same player when played out of position. 

Our main options, other than Vyner are:

Kalas (RCB - Injured)

Naismith (CB or LCB)

Atkinson (LCB)

Klose (LCB)

Idehen (LCB or CB)

Towler (LCB or CB)

 

[Gazred]

He's squad filla, no killa.

Under contract, probably no affordable upgrade options around. Kind of stuck with him opinions aside.

He'll be needed as the season rolls on. Tidy footballer, just needs to stop those punishable mistakes.

[cidered abroad]

14 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

A lot of opinion on Vyner's past performances and issues. Can anyone, who saw it. give an appraisal of his performance today?

I always think people get better with experience and with age, the fact he has a few starts under his belt may mean Mr Pearson thinks the same

I am reminding all again about one of City's best defenders a long time ago.

Gordon Part made his debut in 1957 but did not become a regular first choice until 1964/5 when he was approaching 25 years.

I'm not saying Vyner will replicate his City career but let's just remind ourselves that players make the grade at various ages from 16 to 25/26. Vardy at Leicester was around that age when he blossomed, so why not Vyner?

Nigel would not be selecting him if he thought he isn't good enough!

[REDOXO]

1 minute ago, cidered abroad said:

I am reminding all again about one of City's best defenders a long time ago.

Gordon Part made his debut in 1957 but did not become a regular first choice until 1964/5 when he was approaching 25 years.

I'm not saying Vyner will replicate his City career but let's just remind ourselves that players make the grade at various ages from 16 to 25/26. Vardy at Leicester was around that age when he blossomed, so why not Vyner?

Nigel would not be selecting him if he thought he isn't good enough!

That is the way I see it. We don't have the type of injury problems that might force Mr Pearson's hand, therefore he is getting minutes as he is part of the squad plan at least.

[The Bard]

If we got rid of Vyner we would have to be confident we had youngsters capable of covering RCB and CDM.  Maybe that will come next year but I don't think we're there yet. He serves a purpose whereas Moore, Bakinson, Palmer didn't.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

A blessing to Zak may be our current lack of options at RCB. When Kalas returns, Vyner will be pushed down the pecking order again. 

Most of our centre backs prefer to play on the left hand side. And Klose does not look the same player when played out of position. 

Our main options, other than Vyner are:

Kalas (RCB - Injured)

Naismith (CB or LCB)

Atkinson (LCB)

Klose (LCB)

Idehen (LCB or CB)

Towler (LCB or CB)

 

FWIW Klose has played most all of his career as the right side of a pair in a back four or either CB3 / RCB3 in a back three.  He’s played very few times at LCB3 until he came here.

In the first two pre-season games I thought he looked fine at RCB3.

But I guess we will see at 14:00 next Saturday.

If Vyner plays it’s because he’s earned it….and fair play to him if so.  Another versatile player should injuries hit…but not long term CB imho.

 

[Rossi the Robin]

Switching off is either lack of confidence or not caring I would guess

With Vyner I’d presume it’s confidence or he wouldn’t be getting the minutes 

There’s a good player in there and NP will try to build him up - defo not many chances left though 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Switching off is either lack of confidence or not caring I would guess

With Vyner I’d presume it’s confidence or he wouldn’t be getting the minutes 

There’s a good player in there and NP will try to build him up - defo not many chances left though 

Mental fatigue…catching up as the minutes tick by too might be it.

[AshtonRobin21]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW Klose has played most all of his career as the right side of a pair in a back four or either CB3 / RCB3 in a back three.  He’s played very few times at LCB3 until he came here.

In the first two pre-season games I thought he looked fine at RCB3.

But I guess we will see at 14:00 next Saturday.

If Vyner plays it’s because he’s earned it….and fair play to him if so.  Another versatile player should injuries hit…but not long term CB imho.

 

I might be sounding slightly harsh. 

He looked so good last season, that perhaps he has set himself extremely high expectations. 

By no means has he looked bad in pre-season, just perhaps not as assured as he did last year. 

My opinion on Vyner, is that for years I have hoped that he would be another academy player to push on and become a key player, but last season I felt like covering my eyes at times. He played us into trouble far too many times with sloppy passes and being caught out of position. 

As a squad player, fine. But when I see him in the starting line-up, I feel slightly uneasy. 

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That for me is his biggest failing…needs to be more aggressive, both aerially and on the deck.

With a talker alongside him like Naismith or Klose we might see less switching off.

As @JoeAman08says, he’s cheap cover…at least until we bring in better.

Agree just think the better will be the kids coming through. Idk what his thoughts are on being a squad player for us but I think he might end up with a new deal. See how it goes with Kalas and Klose by the end of the season. If they leave it is Naismith, Atkinson, Towler and Idehen. Vyner ooc too I think but at his age and being a part of the squad already you’d think he has a chance. Right foot too whereas it seems all the kids are left footers!

[swanker]

Not bad on the ball but ALWAYS seems to have a mistake in him. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That for me is his biggest failing…needs to be more aggressive, both aerially and on the deck.

With a talker alongside him like Naismith or Klose we might see less switching off.

As @JoeAman08says, he’s cheap cover…at least until we bring in better.

Got to totally agree with you Dave. Until he can be replaced and sold he is cover, cheap, and good fitness record. But it words me any other long term injury in defence makes him a starter. He needs a lot of guidance from his other defenders to keep him on the game . It's not idea but best we got at mo I suppose 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That for me is his biggest failing…needs to be more aggressive, both aerially and on the deck.

With a talker alongside him like Naismith or Klose we might see less switching off.

As @JoeAman08says, he’s cheap cover…at least until we bring in better.

Got to totally agree with you Dave. Until he can be replaced and sold he is cover, cheap, and good fitness record. But it words me any other long term injury in defence makes him a starter. He needs a lot of guidance from his other defenders to keep him on the game . It's not idea but best we got at mo I suppose 

I mean it's strikes me a new CBR is essential before the season start. Loan incoming ? Same with forward & DM. 

three incoming loans ?

can't see it but ............

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Got to totally agree with you Dave. Until he can be replaced and sold he is cover, cheap, and good fitness record. But it words me any other long term injury in defence makes him a starter. He needs a lot of guidance from his other defenders to keep him on the game . It's not idea but best we got at mo I suppose 

I mean it's strikes me a new CBR is essential before the season start. Loan incoming ? Same with forward & DM. 

three incoming loans ?

can't see it but ............

I think much will depend on the timeline for getting Tomas back fit.  If he’s just a couple of weeks away then not an issue.  Michael Morrison and Michael Hector still without a contract.

Incredible the number of left sided CBs we have coming through.  Jamie Knight-Lebel is the next RCB in line!!!

[Rocking Red Cyril]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think much will depend on the timeline for getting Tomas back fit.  If he’s just a couple of weeks away then not an issue.  Michael Morrison and Michael Hector still without a contract.

Incredible the number of left sided CBs we have coming through.  Jamie Knight-Lebel is the next RCB in line!!!

Still want a signing loan or what ever to cover that position  

[Bris Red]

15 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I still like him. As said he is a cheap and versatile option. Isn’t there a rule you have to have so many club grown players in your match day squad? Granted that isn’t a massive issue at the minute.
 

I never understood the hate for him. He is probably a very good L1 player which makes him a good championship rotation player. If he has to play 30 times then your season probably isn’t the best. If you have a couple cbs out and need someone to throw in there there probably aren’t many better options from the bench in the division. Also think he is one of our better passers from back there. He will give it away because he can pop one into someones feet 30 yards away. He can hit that perfect ball over the top of the defence to a runner(cardiff away last season). Because he can do it he will have a few go astray. 
 

Not saying he should be starting for us. Just that for the money he is probably on and the versatility he offers, I can't understand why people are so quick to want rid of him. Towler and Idehen are good prospects but they would probably be more of a liability in a long term role than Vyner at this point. 

Sorry disagree. The amount of points Vyner has cost us IMO is indefensible. He is a liability. You cannot afford to have liabilities even as squad players at this level.

[JoeAman08]

56 minutes ago, bris red said:

Sorry disagree. The amount of points Vyner has cost us IMO is indefensible. He is a liability. You cannot afford to have liabilities even as squad players at this level.

How many points has he cost us? So we should go pay a fee and 13k a week for a 5th cb? Who are you replacing him with that won’t be a liability and would be cheap? Also they are happy to be a pro in training and in the dressing room while not playing much. At the minute in our current squad it is him or a couple of teenagers. 

Edited July 24, 2022 by JoeAman08

[Swede]

I think he'll play better with the likes of Naismith around him. A very smooth player unfortunately he has one too many "Derrick Williams like" aimless passes in him.

He suffers a bit because he came through at the same time as Lloyd Kelly. I've always thought he'd be a better defensive midfielder.

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, Swede said:

I think he'll play better with the likes of Naismith around him. A very smooth player unfortunately he has one too many "Derrick Williams like" aimless passes in him.

He suffers a bit because he came through at the same time as Lloyd Kelly. I've always thought he'd be a better defensive midfielder.

Me too.

[LondonBristolian]

Ultimately Pearson knows him and sees him in training and I don’t. I expected him to move on - and I suspect the plan was to move him out and get a new right sided centre back in - and it may be that that still happens, it may be that he has shown Pearson something he had not seen before or it may be that we either cannot move him on or cannot get the player we want and that he is staying because pragmatism has kicked in.

Vyner is not going to make it at this level unless he cuts out his mistakes, gets a bit braver in going for challenges and improves his concentration but nonetheless I think he was a bit of a scapegoat for some all round terrible defending last season. I agree with those who think League One is his current level but do not think he is anywhere near as bad as some have made out. 

If we sold him tomorrow and announced a new defender, I’d think it as a good move. But he has been fine in pre-season and, if Pearson thinks he has seen something that justifies starting him over Klose next Saturday, I’d trust Pearson’s judgement and be happy to assess Vyner’s performances this season with a clean slate.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

How many points has he cost us? So we should go pay a fee and 13k a week for a 5th cb? Who are you replacing him with that won’t be a liability and would be cheap? Also they are happy to be a pro in training and in the dressing room while not playing much. At the minute in our current squad it is him or a couple of teenagers. 

Rather utilise Towler or Idehan, personally.

[2015]

Vyner has too many lapses in concentration at this level to ever be consistently a good player in the Championship. 

I just think he is a League 1 or 2 defender is all really and the mistakes he makes will always get punished in our League. He's got a good attitude, but not good enough

[spudski]

As a defender...Vyner is too passive for me.

Poor concentration levels and another imo...who enjoys being a footballer and it's trappings over actually playing the game.

I'd also prefer he moved on and Towler and Idehan were used instead.

Would be happy enough if he proved me wrong, but at 25 I think he's found his level. 

I wouldn't want him to block a pathway.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Rather utilise Towler or Idehan, personally.

Lets be fair, in his last appearance at this level Towler got handed his ass and looked absolutely miles off being ready. I realise youngsters improve but maybe he hasn't yet got to the standard where Pearson can ditch Vyner (not to mention he is left footed and wouldn't be played on the right hand side of a back three anyway). 

[big dosser]

im in the same boat as most with zac but there would be nothing better than him proving us wrong.

[steviestevieneville]

17 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Switching off is either lack of confidence or not caring I would guess

With Vyner I’d presume it’s confidence or he wouldn’t be getting the minutes 

There’s a good player in there and NP will try to build him up - defo not many chances left though 

It’s a lack of concentration , nothing else . He’s done it all his career & I think he’s 25 now . It’s common in lower league defenders . Decision making is a major difference between top of the game & lower leagues , not just technical abilities. Swansea away last season was the final straw for me & it seemed Pearson . I’d be amazed if Zak plays many games this season 

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

Rather utilise Towler or Idehan, personally.

Both left footed which limits where they can play. And that is very football manager or fifa like thinking.  We saw Towler struggle the last time he got championship minutes. Idehen looks more solid but is still very raw on the ball. Vyner miles ahead of both of them at present.

Again most say he is a L1 standard player. That is very good 5th cb to have. If we needed 10 consecutive starts from one of the three, we’ll earn a lot more points with Vyner in there than Towler or Idehen. The scapegoating has seemingly caused a hatred for the bloke. 

[Numero Uno]

12 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Both left footed which limits where they can play. And that is very football manager or fifa like thinking.  We saw Towler struggle the last time he got championship minutes. Idehen looks more solid but is still very raw on the ball. Vyner miles ahead of both of them at present.

Again most say he is a L1 standard player. That is very good 5th cb to have. If we needed 10 consecutive starts from one of the three, we’ll earn a lot more points with Vyner in there than Towler or Idehen. The scapegoating has seemingly caused a hatred for the bloke. 

We all know Zak’s issues at the level but what you say is the inconvenient truth RIGHT NOW which is why Zak is getting the higher number of minutes……….when his contract runs out he’s either got past his issues and finally fulfilled the promise he had or he will be gone assuming we are still in the Championship. Like I said previously Pearson is pragmatic in the short term but obviously has an eye on the longer term (otherwise he wouldn’t be using a very raw 17 year old left sided defender in pre season) and feels there is no need to can Vyner at the moment.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

13 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Both left footed which limits where they can play. And that is very football manager or fifa like thinking.  We saw Towler struggle the last time he got championship minutes. Idehen looks more solid but is still very raw on the ball. Vyner miles ahead of both of them at present.

Again most say he is a L1 standard player. That is very good 5th cb to have. If we needed 10 consecutive starts from one of the three, we’ll earn a lot more points with Vyner in there than Towler or Idehen. The scapegoating has seemingly caused a hatred for the bloke. 

I’m more in this camp, we need to balance the books, so are unlikely to have armies of top 6 oven ready players as back up to the first XI. And if not having a mistake in them was a prerequisite for getting selected, it would less of an XI and more of a IV (at best) most Saturdays. Zak has the benefit of being able to cover multiple positions, maybe not to the standard we’d like, but given FFP and us not being Man City, think he’s a decent squad player, even if we were to bring in, say, Morrison. 20/30 mins here and there as needed, covering multiple positions, reduces the likelihood of concentration causing problems as well. NP’s repeated selection of Zak and not loaning/selling him (as yet) indicates attitude decent as well. 

[marcofisher]

I think Cundy leaving has probably rescued his City career. He will be the backup centre half that Cundy was intended to be.

The lad is still only 25, has good availability and most importantly, is CHEAP cover.

If we get rid of him, we would have to spend more getting another player which from a business perspective, would be a big no bueno. 

I imagine Pearson will want to keep him until the end of his contract (next year?) and then see if Towler or Idehen look a bit more ready.

[GrahamC]

Seems pretty clear reading Pearson’s post match comments that our financial situation is making it extremely difficult for us to do any more business at present.

As a result Zak is going to be around the squad unless that changes.

I think we probably expected to move him on & bring someone in, but clearly that hasn’t happened & so with Kalas unavailable & still on the payroll NP is taking a pragmatic view.

Still won’t be shocked if Klose starts & Vyner is on the bench though.

[Bris Red]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Rather utilise Towler or Idehan, personally.

This for me. As i said Vyner has been given his opportunities and has blown them. As harsh as that sounds that is unfortunately football. Time for the other youngsters in that position to be given some game time and see how they get on.

It would be interesting to hear Pearson’s opinions on Vyner - as others have said i get a feeling the plan was to sell him on but for what ever reason that hasn’t happened and we are somewhat lumbered with him for now.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bris red said:

This for me. As i said Vyner has been given his opportunities and has blown them. As harsh as that sounds that is unfortunately football. Time for the other youngsters in that position to be given some game time and see how they get on.

It would be interesting to hear Pearson’s opinions on Vyner - as others have said i get a feeling the plan was to sell him on but for what ever reason that hasn’t happened and we are somewhat lumbered with him for now.

We need a RCB3 with Kalas out, so if Nige wants to play a back 3, then Idehen or Towler aren’t really viable option, Klose and Vyner are.

Both are so left footed.

I’m one for seeing how it pans out, although I hope that the influence of Naismith inside him can help.

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, bris red said:

This for me. As i said Vyner has been given his opportunities and has blown them. As harsh as that sounds that is unfortunately football. Time for the other youngsters in that position to be given some game time and see how they get on.

It would be interesting to hear Pearson’s opinions on Vyner - as others have said i get a feeling the plan was to sell him on but for what ever reason that hasn’t happened and we are somewhat lumbered with him for now.

if we are lumbered with him then the onus is on Vyner. A year out the team is not going to help him when his contract expires so he has a year to either force his way into the long term picture or earn a good move elsewhere. He is not a kid anymore and it is down to him to prove he can step up. I am sceptical but I really hope he seizes the moment.

Edited July 24, 2022 by LondonBristolian

[NcnsBcfc]

Like others who have already posted, we all know that Vyner is a stop gap until we are able to replace him.

The main issue for me, is that from a supporter's point if view, you just know that mistake/lapse of concentration is coming at some stage whenever he is involved. Watching him from the Dolman, it's generally with an impending sense of doom.

Unfortunately over the years he has used up any goodwill of fans (unlike someone like Magnússon who also had a catastrophic mistake in him at times). So the first error he makes will be met with a huge groan, and a collective "FFS Vyner again" around the ground.

Must be so difficult as a defender to play in those circumstances, and his body language normally paints a thousand words when it happens.

[Sir Geoff]

And he still hasn't learned, as witnessed with FGR's goal. Totally different level but the few times I played in defence, I was shattered mentally rather than my usual physical tiredness in midfield.

Any opposition manager would instruct their forwards to just keep coming in off his shoulder as you know he will switch off at least once in 90 minutes.

[bcfc01]

I've not been a Vyner fan, but I was at the game yesterday and he had a very good game as he generally did in the last game. One lapse let in Matt and its a goal, but the cross could also have been defended better.

Very few aimless punts upfield and lots of short crisp passes yesterday. He has a lot of ability as you would expect from a professional at this level, it's the other stuff that he's struggled with - aggression, concentration, positional discipline. You could say the same of Taylor Moore, very similar in that respect except Vyner is probably the more skillful , especially in tight situations. I'm not sure he's a stop gap, It may be that NP is looking at him long term with a view to letting Kalas go.

I've seen Klose on the right and it seems to me that he is very uncomfortable in that position. Vyner is quicker and not too bad in one in one situations and more comfortable in that position than Klose. I said earlier in pre-season that Klose on the right doesn't look secure, he needs to be in the middle. Contrary to what I've read on here and the local media, I thought Naismith had a poor game against good standard forward players yesterday, held onto the ball too long, slowed us down, and his passing was off. He looked good against lower level opposition in the middle, but he should be on the left to allow Klose, who is a better player imo, to be in the middle. But that would mean dropping Atkinson which isn't tenable as he's been virtually faultless.

So, for me, as it stands, Its Vyner, Klose, Atkinson with Naismith as back up, but I've no doubt that it will be Klose who misses out.

All about opinions..

 

[NcnsBcfc]

8 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

And he still hasn't learned, as witnessed with FGR's goal. Totally different level but the few times I played in defence, I was shattered mentally rather than my usual physical tiredness in midfield.

Any opposition manager would instruct their forwards to just keep coming in off his shoulder as you know he will switch off at least once in 90 minutes.

100% @Sir Geoff

I used to play as a defender, and the higher level you got  the more mental energy and focus it took.

One slip, or absence of concentration can lead to a late equaliser or winner for the opposition (Still can't get over quite how bad we were at this last season).

For me Vyner's name is out there now amoungest other managers as a player that can be targeted. He will be knows as a defender that can be pushed around, and dominated. 

Under the glare of the spotlight he tends to go into his shell, and then start to hide.

If I never see one of his aimless diagonal balls from the right back area to the left wing area again it will be too soon.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 minute ago, bcfc01 said:

I've not been a Vyner fan, but I was at the game yesterday and he had a very good game as he generally did in the last game. One lapse let in Matt and its a goal, but the cross could also have been defended better.

Very few aimless punts upfield and lots of short crisp passes yesterday. He has a lot of ability as you would expect from a professional at this level, it's the other stuff that he's struggled with - aggression, concentration, positional discipline. You could say the same of Taylor Moore, very similar in that respect except Vyner is probably the more skillful , especially in tight situations. I'm not sure he's a stop gap, It may be that NP is looking at him long term with a view to letting Kalas go.

I've seen Klose on the right and it seems to me that he is very uncomfortable in that position. Vyner is quicker and not too bad in one in one situations and more comfortable in that position than Klose. I said earlier in pre-season that Klose on the right doesn't look secure, he needs to be in the middle. Contrary to what I've read on here and the local media, I thought Naismith had a poor game against good standard forward players yesterday, held onto the ball too long, slowed us down, and his passing was off. He looked good against lower level opposition in the middle, but he should be on the left to allow Klose, who is a better player imo, to be in the middle. But that would mean dropping Atkinson which isn't tenable as he's been virtually faultless.

So, for me, as it stands, Its Vyner, Klose, Atkinson with Naismith as back up, but I've no doubt that it will be Klose who misses out.

All about opinions..

 

So you would play Vyner instead of Naismith???

Of course as you say all about opinions, but he was in the Championship team of the season last year at CB.

You could make the argument for Vyner instead of Klose. But not sure of the Vyner instead if Naismith one unfortunately.

[bcfc01]

1 minute ago, NcnsBcfc said:

So you would play Vyner instead of Naismith???

Of course as you say all about opinions, but he was in the Championship team of the season last year at CB.

You could make the argument for Vyner instead of Klose. But not sure of the Vyner instead if Naismith one unfortunately.

Naismith doesn't play on the right.

[NcnsBcfc]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Naismith doesn't play on the right.

Indeed you would play him in the centre with probably Atkinson to his left, and or Klose or Vyner to his right surely?

I don't think anybody would be saying to play him at RCB, or that Klose is a better option than him in the centre at present.

[maxjak]

Pearson states that there won't be anymore incomings until more players leave?  Apart from Vyner, who else is he talking about?  We have let 5 go, and brought in 3 Free transfer's (I am aware Free transfers cost money).  I find it disappointing that our squad only needs a couple of injuries to majorly disrupt things ?  We need a defensive midfielder and another defender at least, as he knows,,  and i know, our squad is thin at present?  I do wonder why   Andy King has been given a contract, when i believe priorities lie elsewhere? 

Edited July 24, 2022 by maxjak

[LondonBristolian]

8 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Pearson states that there won't be anymore incomings until more players leave?  Apart from Vyner, who else is he talking about?  We have let 5 go, and brought in 3 Free transfer's (I am aware Free transfers cost money).  I find it disappointing that our squad only needs a couple of injuries to majorly disrupt things ?  We need a defensive midfielder and another defender at least, as he knows,,  and i know, our squad is thin at present?  I do wonder why   Andy King has been given a contract, when i believe priorities lie elsewhere? 

Wells and Massengo strike me as the only other two players we might be open to moving on for the right fee. Re King, I presume it is that he is low cost, a good influence in the squad, reduced the coaching workload and means we don’t need to spend more to cover Benarous’s injury. I’d not have offered him a contract but don’t think it has cost enough to have had a major impact on our other transfer business.

I agree our squad depth is not great but I don’t know where we can conjure money from. It is also worth bearing mind any Vyner replacement needs to be a capable defender at a low cost who is happy to be fourth or fifth choice. I find it utterly plausible we have gone through the realistic options and decided Vyner is a better option than anyone realistic and available.

[bcfc01]

18 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Indeed you would play him in the centre with probably Atkinson to his left, and or Klose or Vyner to his right surely?

I don't think anybody would be saying to play him at RCB, or that Klose is a better option than him in the centre at present.

Thats exactly what I am saying.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

We need a RCB3 with Kalas out, so if Nige wants to play a back 3, then Idehen or Towler aren’t really viable option, Klose and Vyner are.

Both are so left footed.

I’m one for seeing how it pans out, although I hope that the influence of Naismith inside him can help.

When is Kala's expected back to fit to play

[Robbored]

9 hours ago, maxjak said:

Pearson states that there won't be anymore incomings until more players leave?  Apart from Vyner, who else is he talking about?  We have let 5 go, and brought in 3 Free transfer's (I am aware Free transfers cost money).  I find it disappointing that our squad only needs a couple of injuries to majorly disrupt things ?  We need a defensive midfielder and another defender at least, as he knows,,  and i know, our squad is thin at present?  I do wonder why   Andy King has been given a contract, when i believe priorities lie elsewhere? 

Nige sees King as a future coach - that’s part of his new contract. He’ll become involved in the coaching set up at City as well being able to continue making contributions on the pitch  - leading by example as player/coach.

A win win situation for all concerned.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Robbored