Engvall on the move but continues to ply his trade in the top flight

[Agard Days Night]

As per the thread title. Gustav Engvall has moved on loan to Sarpsborg in the top tier of  Norwegian football. Good luck to him, shame it didn’t work out for him here for all manner of reasons. I wonder if his time is up at Mechelen or if he can play his way back in to their plans. 

[GrahamC]

He’s been a failure at Mechelen ever since they got promoted to the top flight back in 2019, after scoring 8 in the promotion season he’s managed just 2 goals in 38 games since (though that total does include a lot of sub appearances).

Think he, alongside Peter Styvar will always be remembered as the biggest failures of us looking to Europe for strikers. Lois Diony gets quoted a lot, but we never actually bought him.

When you look at both of their careers bluntly these 2 just weren’t very good & Norwegian football effectively just takes him back to where his career began.

[DaveF]

23 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s been a failure at Mechelen ever since they got promoted to the top flight back in 2019, after scoring 8 in the promotion season he’s managed just 2 goals in 38 games since (though that total does include a lot of sub appearances).

Think he, alongside Peter Styvar will always be remembered as the biggest failures of us looking to Europe for strikers. Lois Diony gets quoted a lot, but we never actually bought him.

When you look at both of their careers bluntly these 2 just weren’t very good & Norwegian football effectively just takes him back to where his career began.

You could see the logic with Styvar, 30 goals in 57 matches for Zilina is obviously a good record. Doesn't look like he did much after leaving us tho.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

You could see the logic with Styvar, 30 goals in 57 matches for Zilina is obviously a good record. Doesn't look like he did much after leaving us tho.

Absolutely & it is always forgotten that he scored against Villa in whatever the Europa League was called then that season & got 3 against Exeter as we chose to have a look at him in a friendly first.

I think he really struggled to settle, pretty sure someone on here got to know him & said his family found it very tough & he was also unwell.

I actually remember him coming on for his debut as a sub (Pompey at home, I think) & he looked lively, but after a few sub appearances he faded & as you rightly say, spells elsewhere just haven’t worked out.

Having seen Engvall the first couple of times I was completely baffled by what we ever thought it was he had, reminded me of Liam Robinson, he ran around but he wasn’t particularly quick, ok-ish first touch but not great in the air & didn’t look a poacher, either.

[petehinton]

Would really love to know what actually happened there, especially with all the agent £££ rumours. IMO there’s no chance anyone ever watched him play. Can remember him coming on against Barnsley first game of the season in 17-18 and he looked like he’d never ran before. 

[pl00peh91]

How much did we pay for him again? Was it £3m or am I misremembering that? If so that is madness considering we can’t afford to spend a penny on transfer fees these days 

[Northern Red]

I don't know if it was ever proven but there was the tale that the other players couldn't believe how bad he was when they saw him in training.

Wouldn't surprise me if some people did very well out of that deal.

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, pl00peh91 said:

How much did we pay for him again? Was it £3m or am I misremembering that? If so that is madness considering we can’t afford to spend a penny on transfer fees these days 

It was £2m, we got £250k from Mechelen for him. That Mark Ashton, eh?

Completely different times, though as others have pointed out, clubs better run than we were (Millwall, Preston, Coventry) are in nowhere near the financial mess we got ourselves into during the pandemic.

[Gazred]

Just reading the article on the OS when he signed, nearly 6 years ago to the day. We had a busy summer...

"Engvall becomes City’s 12th first team recruit of the summer, following on from Josh Brownhill, Gary O’Neil, Diego De Girolamo, Lee Tomlin, Hörður Magnússon, Callum O’Dowda, Ivan Lucic, Tammy Abraham, Adam Matthews, Taylor Moore and Jamie Paterson. The club has also recruited youngsters Jack Challis, Kodi Lyons-Foster and Shabazz Omofe for the development group."

[OneTeamInBristol]

I remember when he came on at Watford in the cup a few days before the Man City semi and he looked like he was borrowing someone else's legs.

[Super]

Another that's filed in the "didn't work out folder"

[brady bunch]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Would really love to know what actually happened there, especially with all the agent £££ rumours. IMO there’s no chance anyone ever watched him play.

 

1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

Wouldn't surprise me if some people did very well out of that deal.

I make you both 100% right.

Both Engvall and Styvar came at a time when there were lots of other "fingers" in the pie! in terms of "money to be made". I think there were some honest football reasons for both and others around then, where the transfer costs were way out of sync, but I suspect the "grease" that helped the deals to happen was an equal consideration to how they ended up on our books and rarely on our pitch......

[LondonBristolian]

I feel for Engvall in many ways

Whatever the reasons why it didn't work, it did nothing for his career to move to a team that could not use him and, from a personal point of view, moving abroad at 20 must be a big deal and being stuck in a foreign city with a manager (and perhaps teammates) that clearly didn't rate him must have been a lonely place to be. 

[fatchers]

Whenever I see the term 'worth a punt' I wonder if people realise what an expensive ' worthless punt ' the majority turn out to be. How many 'worthless punts' were brought in under Ashton's watch ?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Would really love to know what actually happened there, especially with all the agent £££ rumours. IMO there’s no chance anyone ever watched him play. Can remember him coming on against Barnsley first game of the season in 17-18 and he looked like he’d never ran before. 

I watched him versus Hull in EFL Cup and thought he looked decent, decent touch, good movement, agressive in the press.

[hinsleburg]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I watched him versus Hull in EFL Cup and thought he looked decent, decent touch, good movement, agressive in the press.

Yeah I can remember watching that and thinking we had a real player there, IIRC Taylor Moore also played really well against prem opposition that night next to Flint.

Can remember coming away really positive after that game, think Tomlin dropped an incredible 20 minute cameo too.

[Davefevs]

Just now, hinsleburg said:

Yeah I can remember watching that and thinking we had a real player there, IIRC Taylor Moore also played really well against prem opposition that night next to Flint.

Can remember coming away really positive after that game, think Tomlin dropped an incredible 20 minute cameo too.

Yep, Moore looked really quick that night.  As you say against PL Hull too.

[Oh Louie louie]

That o donnel was a strange one.

Sure i saw him put in a motm performance, think he even saved a pen?

Couple of weeks later, i think he was lobbed, at rotherham,? from way way out.

Dont think he played again.

[IAmNick]

34 minutes ago, fatchers said:

Whenever I see the term 'worth a punt' I wonder if people realise what an expensive ' worthless punt ' the majority turn out to be. How many 'worthless punts' were brought in under Ashton's watch ?

I agree - and it's not just the straight up money. These players all need training time and resources spent on them, physios, etc. which is harder to quantify but will have a reasonable impact.

[Oh Louie louie]

He would have had harry maguire marking him?

Id probaly back him to score, if he came up against him today!

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Logical-City said:

He was sold for a similar fee for what we paid for him I think as with many of the deals which didn’t work out: Eisa, Szmodics, Maggnison excuse my spelling but apart from adelakun I can’t think of a signing under Johnson which didn’t leave for same if not slightly more of a fee !

Im willing to be humbled but another toothless argument against the unfortunate Covid pandemic Financial damage victim Johnson if you ask me

Obviously Pearson/Holdens cull was releasing of Johnson’s players 2 years after he left so that can’t be considered they all released by Pearson all contributed well under LJ

Engvall was NOT sold for a fee anywhere near what we paid for him.  Paid circa £1.5m, got circa £200k for him. Rumours (unsubstantiated) that agent fees were £600k on signing too!

Djuric went for far less.  Lucic, Hegeler and Hinds went for zip.

Tomlin went for £1m less.

[Swede]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It was £2m, we got £250k from Mechelen for him. That Mark Ashton, eh?

Completely different times, though as others have pointed out, clubs better run than we were (Millwall, Preston, Coventry) are in nowhere near the financial mess we got ourselves into during the pandemic.

Pretty much sums the Ashton era up in a nutshell Graham C

[Son of Fred]

14 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

As per the thread title. Gustav Engvall has moved on loan to Sarpsborg in the top tier of  Norwegian football. Good luck to him, shame it didn’t work out for him here for all manner of reasons. I wonder if his time is up at Mechelen or if he can play his way back in to their plans. 

Good luck??

The bloke carried a poor attitude & didn't put in the required effort here.

[daored]

7 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yep, plus the novelty of being allowed back into grounds after Covid wearing off.

Quite possibly , I’m sure Blackpool on a bank holiday weekend will increase that following. Personally looking forward to Burnley away 

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Most were sold for a similar fee and had reputations which gave them a sell on value.

We had a plan to get to the Premier League by trading if Covid never happened this argument is void.

You can call it reckless but no one none of you could have predicted what happened between 2020-2021 it’s tiring to see people blame.

Pearsons quotes about collecting players have since empowered many of you to continue this argument my opinion is he said this to justify his own bad results over the last 2 seasons

Football is all about opinions but the fact is Johnson’s squad was competing for top 6 places but Pearson would have had you believe they were conference standard 2 years ago

Add Watkins , Walsh , Nagy, Palmer , Bakinson  ..... to the wasted money ..... Compiling a full list would take time 

An easier list is , IIRC - Other than Webster we made no money on anyone except from players that were inherited 

You are deluded

[brady bunch]

2 hours ago, RudiRed said:

O donnell started excellent then made a series of mistakes and never recovered, confidence was shot. Strange really because i thought he had everything to be a top keeper, but you need the mentality as well as the physical ability to make it.

 

I think it was him who was lobbed from inside the oppo half whilst he was watching the firework display outside of the ground? It was after Kory Smith got caught with the ball, I think LJ lost faith in him at that point.

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, brady bunch said:

I think it was him who was lobbed from inside the oppo half whilst he was watching the firework display outside of the ground? It was after Kory Smith got caught with the ball, I think LJ lost faith in him at that point.

Yep, against Brighton. Was live on Sky as well.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Add Watkins , Walsh , Nagy, Palmer , Bakinson  ..... to the wasted money ..... Compiling a full list would take time 

An easier list is , IIRC - Other than Webster we made no money on anyone except from players that were inherited 

You are deluded

100%, plus of course this poster struggles to understand cause & effect.

We were “competing” for top six, (never actually achieving it though), whilst accumulating losses that peaked at £38.4m.

That wasn’t sustainable, we were bailed out previously by Academy sales, Kelly, Reid & Bryan.

The other successes in the market, notably Webster & Brownhill & Flint were very much the exceptions.

Pearson didn’t think the likes of Diedhiou or Paterson were “conference standard”, he realised we were going bust if we kept going with a bloated, ridiculous wage bill & virtually everyone OoC had to go.

[Oh Louie louie]

Yes the webster fee was good.

Very good for a season here.

But for what we spent it on, may as well let him go on a free. probaly would have been better off!

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Most were sold for a similar fee and had reputations which gave them a sell on value.

We had a plan to get to the Premier League by trading if Covid never happened this argument is void.

You can call it reckless but no one none of you could have predicted what happened between 2020-2021 it’s tiring to see people blame.

Pearsons quotes about collecting players have since empowered many of you to continue this argument my opinion is he said this to justify his own bad results over the last 2 seasons

Football is all about opinions but the fact is Johnson’s squad was competing for top 6 places but Pearson would have had you believe they were conference standard 2 years ago

Let me pose this…do you think it was a good strategy?  Is any strategy that pretty much relies on one major income method (transfer profit) a good strategy?  It’s the equivalent of the stock market and “putting all your eggs in one basket”…which any IFA would advise you not to do.

Most weren’t solid….we lost money overall on players signed and sold in Ashton’s time here…and that was in an inflationary market.

Its easy to look at “transfer profit” in the accounts but ignore wage increases, amortisation increases.

I could write reams and reams on this.  All Covid did was expose the strategy.  I have been for 4 years plus.  Unprecedented medically, not unprecedented in football, e.g. On Digital.

It was a disaster waiting to happen.

Nige never had LJ’s squad.  The key players like Brownhill, Pack, Webster, etc, were gone during LJ’s time.  LJ did okay (this isn’t a LJ debate)…the powers above were reckless.  SL included….quite the opposite of how he ran HL!

Edited August 12, 2022 by Davefevs

[Port Said Red]

I remember there being a picture of Engvall when he signed, with about 4 "agents/liggers" with him and thinking this doesn't look right at all.

I would love to know what Ashton was getting out of these deals with people no one had ever heard of 

[Oh Louie louie]

Reguarding the fees, of kelly, reid and bryan.

This is a much diffrent market now.

If we get a bid, anything bigger, than what we got for them, id be amazed.

I really cant see why some people are expecting 25 million bids.

 

[Oh Louie louie]

Yep, bryan reid, and flint were consistent as they come at this level,

Brownhill too.

Looking at those fees, would be much more pragmatic.

[Antman]

5 hours ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

I remember when he came on at Watford in the cup a few days before the Man City semi and he looked like he was borrowing someone else's legs.

similarly remember him warming up at AG, he looked like he had concrete boots on. we all looked at each other with a collective 'WTF' moment

[Oh Louie louie]

If spending at man city has halfed, barcelna are skint.

Dont think for one minute, players fees have doubled in the championship. being my point.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, Son of Fred said:

Good luck??

The bloke carried a poor attitude & didn't put in the required effort here.

 

Not sure that's the case. More the fact, he wasn't good enough.

The fact he wasn't, is the fault of the 'recruitment team' that signed him, and potentially, his agent.  What footballer is going to turn down the chance of a crack at the English second tier?

Let's face it, if City wanted to pay me several grand a week to try to get good enough to feature, I'd sign on the dotted. The fact I would make Bas Savage look like Mo Salah would be the fault of whoever was mad enough to recruit me!

[BTRFTG]

18 hours ago, Agard Days Night said:

it didn’t work out for him here for all manner of reasons.

It didn't work out for him for one reason and one reason only. He's devoid of footballing talent.

[BTRFTG]

54 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I remember there being a picture of Engvall when he signed, with about 4 "agents/liggers" with him and thinking this doesn't look right at all.

I would love to know what Ashton was getting out of these deals with people no one had ever heard of 

As Johnson openly discussed at a Senior Reds luncheon shortly after Engvald made his debut they'd made a 'panic signing' days ahead of the season, knew next to nothing of him other than raw stats, had never seen him play and when finally getting the chance so to do immediately realised the huge mistake they'd made.

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

As Johnson openly discussed at a Senior Reds luncheon shortly after Engvald made his debut they'd made a 'panic signing' days ahead of the season, knew next to nothing of him other than raw stats, had never seen him play and when finally getting the chance so to do immediately realised the huge mistake they'd made.

Interesting. First time I've heard that although not at all surprising.

[Son of Fred]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Not sure that's the case. More the fact, he wasn't good enough.

The fact he wasn't, is the fault of the 'recruitment team' that signed him, and potentially, his agent.  What footballer is going to turn down the chance of a crack at the English second tier?

Let's face it, if City wanted to pay me several grand a week to try to get good enough to feature, I'd sign on the dotted. The fact I would make Bas Savage look like Mo Salah would be the fault of whoever was mad enough to recruit me!

Refused to go out on loan - point blank.

[Sheltons Army]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

Those players were not released by Johnson they were signed by him and before a covid pandemic that I guess you and a few others on here must have predicted 

Brownhill, Elliason? Inherited Bobby Reid and Joe Bryan ?

Reid was on his way out of the club and Bryan was back up to Golbourne when LJ arrived that £16m in transfer fees was his work!

I would also wager we don’t get to a league cup semi final Middlesbrough don’t pay £7m for Flint so I count that as a Johnson win also.

So that’s Webster, Reid , Flint , Brownhill,Elliason I would also put Kodjia in that list as he was only on 10 goals before LJ arrived in January 2016 ended up going for £15m after reaching 19 so he made a lot of money of his work


This rewrite of history is embarrassing!

 

 

You are correct - the desperate attempt to defend Lee Johnson and Ashtons spending sprees is simply laughable , and embarrassing !

If you think our current mess is all down to Co Vid , well.....:laugh:.......but then again you are trying to avoid facts and the truth
 

By your method and attempts to credit our Lee, wait another year or two and if Alex Scott goes for a fair few million , you can credit him for that , as he has heard of Alex Scott , and can spell his name

Johnson spent a fortune here (Again I’ll remind you , the signing on fees, agent fees , wage bills ....besides the numerous duds signed and money lost on fees) and laurel and hardy left us with a ticking time bomb

 

Just to point out how desperate you are to paint a laughable credit list

Joe Bryan was back up to Scott Golbourne eh ?

the Joe Bryan that Cotts played 50 times the previous season ?

Strange that as Golboune only signed days before LJ was officially announced ...

You can only be Lees Mum 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[Red Exile]

3 hours ago, Logical-City said:

... this rewrite of history is embarrassing!

Indeed it is!  

[petehinton]

3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Even without Cold, there is not a hope we were going turn a profit on Wells (30 yers old shown not up to Prem) , Kalas (had played with promoted championship sides, none signed him for the Prem) or Palmer (not secured a sequence of starts for various loan clubs) . You can go on.If that was not reckless, then I am not sure what more you want. We can add in Famara, he went for nothing, not sure where you  seeing the profit signs there . Thats at least £20 m in transfers and god knows how much in wages. Down the drain. 

The squad Johnson created and left the club with was not competing for top 6 , and had minimal resale value. That is why he got sacked, after the biggest most reckless, uncordinated spending spree ever resulted in a team going nowhere. Unfit, a squad divided , and ultimately unprofessional. It would have bankrupted many clubs . Some legacy that.

Pearson has had to halve the wage costs, and also managed to turn 2 players into multi million assets, get Weimann. scoring goals for fun, and had to live with limited resources. When he does leave, someone is going to inherit a far better club, without the dramas and with a clear operating plan. He has navigated out of a huge mess, that normally would have seen the club relegated. We were not, and will not be relegated this season. Indeed, only 2 games in, it is not clear where we will end up, but it is almost certainly going to be progress. 

 

Was actually discussing this with a mate the other day. That January window a few months before the season stopped is easily the most horrifically scramble together of players in my team supporting the club. Even worse than the summer under Coppell. 
 

Both windows that season were absolute carnage, a total shitshow and we’re well and truly paying the price now. 

[Son of Fred]

12 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

laurel and hardy left us with a ticking time bomb

You can only be Lees Mum 

 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Was actually discussing this with a mate the other day. That January window a few months before the season stopped is easily the most horrifically scramble together of players in my team supporting the club. Even worse than the summer under Coppell. 
 

Both windows that season were absolute carnage, a total shitshow and we’re well and truly paying the price now. 

Yep, it felt like they took the player trading to new levels and lost sight of the need to have a cohesive, balanced squad of players.

No coincidence that LJ didn't end up seeing out that season.

[Bristol Oil Services]

28 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Which says it all, and is not the only player we signed without scouting and doing our due diligence. It leaves you speechless. LJ had the hotline to Step L , why did he not use it to say we are doing bonkers stuff ? Ashton was clearly out of control, but LJ needed to do far better. It is now why we are struggling to survive. But when we do get out of this mess , we will be a far more professional club in all areas. Finally not making it up as we go along. 

Very wealthy people are told what they want to hear - "How's it going with Mark, Lee?" "Great, Steve. Top, top chief scout, sorry, executive. Knows what he wants, er, what needs to be done. Onwards and upwards, blah blah etc etc" - more than what is often true or real, I have often read. 

Lee casting doubt on Ashton would've been criticising Lansdown's judgement. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

 not a manager. Lansdown , a multi billionaire, can deal with people telling some home truths. He might 

That's something I haven't read often, or ever.

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

He might not agree. He might fire you. But the big boys are made of sterner stuff. Most, in my experience, appreciate it, if your intentions are professional not political/personal.  When you have the relationship LJ had, Steve could deal with it. 

Fair enough. Maybe Johnson did, but Steve took another view. Maybe that was why he was fired, when we were 12th!

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

On 12/08/2022 at 09:14, DaveF said:

You could see the logic with Styvar, 30 goals in 57 matches for Zilina is obviously a good record. Doesn't look like he did much after leaving us tho.

I’m pretty sure he was a right back who was used as an emergency striker! And it work for whatever reason for a that season! But he was really a striker!

[DaveF]

5 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

I’m pretty sure he was a right back who was used as an emergency striker! And it work for whatever reason for a that season! But he was really a striker!

I think that was a rumour, you don't bag 30 in 57 from right back.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, DaveF said:

I think that was a rumour, you don't bag 30 in 57 from right back.

That Lee Trundle included in his autobiography in a fit of pique.