Queens Park Rangers at home match thread

[Victory Park Reds]

That ******* linesman was an absolute clown .wasn’t up with play.what made it worse we had him the second half as well!

ffs he even ****** their third goal.

Im upstairs in the gods but people down in the old enclosure bit do your it and heckle for Fuchks sake!

useless he was absolutely ******* useless.

[Sleepy1968]

50 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

I mean Christ, Wilson looked like he’d just run the bath half! Wtf?

Ran the bath half full you say? Sounds about right. I guess he was thinking more about his rubber duck than the game.

[Victory Park Reds]

13 minutes ago, Crackers Corner said:

he pulled out of 2 tackles and looked like he either wasn't up for it to me.

I said to me my boy you better not bottle tackles like that tomorrow

[Sleepy1968]

3 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

The goalkeeper has clearly cheated, but the referee just has to do better here.

He's committed an infringement that the referee has failed to pick up on. I wouldn't call that cheating, but we're all different

[redkev]

18 minutes ago, italian dave said:

That’s true. But if you’ve got a dodgy level then you replace it.

He has had plenty of opportunity to bring in players, and has done so. So the tools are the ones he’s chosen, and the point is that you’d surely think a defender would know what to look for. He’s the 5th longest serving manager in the Championship. 

Who says he hasn’t tried , perhaps there were no spirit levels left or they were out of stock .

agreed though our inability to keep a clean sheet is deffo gonna hold us back this season

[Victory Park Reds]

59 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

And how far onside was their ‘offside’ goal?

Incompetent was the display of the officials today.again

[Sleepy1968]

Sorry if it's been mentioned - too tired to trawl through the thread. But 15 out of 16 of our throw-ins I counted went backwards. A couple taken in the attacking third went back via a pass or two into our own half. It must be great defending throw ins against us.

[winsaw]

Yes the officials where very poor but really we let ourselves down silly mistakes leading to the goal and non existent midfield in first half offering no protection to the defence in the middle, we had enough good chances as well to have scored at least 3 need to be clinical like QPR were in front of goal, I liked the start good tempo for the first 15 mins before the goal knocked the stuffing out of us and we finished well after the changes were made, so not all bad but some stuff to work on before Tuesday, 

[StefanDimz]

Bad performance from the lads today. Lack of commitment in the first half. We're generally bad right after the international brake anyway. S**t happens and I'm sure we'll be looking a different side against Cov! COYR

[pongo88]

2 hours ago, Wanderingred said:

Can we stop all this ridiculous talk of pushing for the top six now? We are an inconsistent side that will finish around 16th.

Sixteenths may be a tad low but I’m sure that NP, and the rest of the City coaching team know that City need two or three more defensive players to be able to push for a top six place. He’s operating with the current financial constraints 

1 hour ago, Bris Red said:

Wilson seems an odd one. So much hype surrounding him over the summer and supposedly he had plenty of other options than us.
Obviously early days but he has to go down as a big disappointment thus far.

It’s a bit unfair to say he’s a big disappointment as he’s hardly played 

[italian dave]

53 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The tools are the ones available to buy on the available budget. If you can’t afford a Snap On spanner you may just have to buy one from Stanley or maybe pick up what ever is laying around. Metaphorically speaking. 

Of course. But the budget of any Championship club (and ours isn’t the lowest) should be able to stretch to a defensive unit that at least looks capable and organised. And the more so when the manager is someone who’s trade was a defender. Which was the point of the original post.

 

[Jerseybean]

44 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Sorry if it's been mentioned - too tired to trawl through the thread. But 15 out of 16 of our throw-ins I counted went backwards. A couple taken in the attacking third went back via a pass or two into our own half. It must be great defending throw ins against us.

A horribly recurring theme. 

[italian dave]

49 minutes ago, redkev said:

Who says he hasn’t tried , perhaps there were no spirit levels left or they were out of stock .

agreed though our inability to keep a clean sheet is deffo gonna hold us back this season

Oh he’s clearly tried. And it does feel like most of our market activity has been defensively. And as I’ve said above you’d just have hoped that with a defender in charge we’d at least have managed to put together a defensive unit that looks competent and organised. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Wasn`t there today but I`ve just seen the goals. Is it just me or did the cross for their second pass very close in front of Bents and not at particularly high speed? It looked like he could have just bent down and picked it up,

It was probably completely different live though.

[Midred]

Just watched NP post match. Obviously given up on the scores for the officials - waste of breath!

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Wasn`t there today but I`ve just seen the goals. Is it just me or did the cross for their second pass very close in front of Bents and not at particularly high speed? It looked like he could have just bent down and picked it up,

It was probably completely different live though.

It was a really good cross in fairness. No fault of Bents imo.

[RedReynard]

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

As much as I enjoy a dig at the ref, neither him or his assistant are going to see that. VAR might have helped if they’d had this angle, the Robins TV angles were really inconclusive.

I was in line with it so easy to see was handball but didn't everyone else in the ground shout for it as well. Seemed like it. Important decisions like that shouldn't be missed by the officials. The linesman on the Lansdown side had a shocker today not just the ref.

[One Team]

1 minute ago, RedReynard said:

I was in line with it so easy to see was handball but didn't everyone else in the ground shout for it as well. Seemed like it. Important decisions like that shouldn't be missed by the officials. The linesman on the Lansdown side had a shocker today not just the ref.

Was right by him today and completely agree.

I thought we played OK today actually and we were let down by some poor defensive frailties and poor officials.

[Lanterne Rouge]

31 minutes ago, Super said:

It was a really good cross in fairness. No fault of Bents imo.

I thought it must have been, like I said, difficult to judge without being there.

[Major Isewater]

I just saw  a little of the game but I noticed that the R’s keeper caught the ball often in his area .  
Their defence were very tight.

They looked well drilled and energetic. 
We lost all momentum when Largish Nige threw on the subs . A team full of forwards is not a well balanced team, with all NP’s experience why does he do that ? 
Andi Weimann has not been in great form for 5 odd games and we have suffered. 
Just a few random thoughts . 

[REDOXO]

45 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Of course. But the budget of any Championship club (and ours isn’t the lowest) should be able to stretch to a defensive unit that at least looks capable and organised. And the more so when the manager is someone who’s trade was a defender. Which was the point of the original post.

 

Did we spend any money in the closed season. Remind me, no really I don’t remember.

Our budget for anything will be dictated by how near we are too an FFP deduction, however there maybe some closer, who knows. We did obtain Lutons player of the year for free and everyone lauded it as a brilliant signing, even the Luton fans went mad because he came here. The fact the bloke has been the biggest liability since Carl Hutchins and Klose and Kalas are Crocked is annoying but hardly Pearsons fault. He has what he has in the academy plus free signings until we sell someone, which we are all aware of. 
 

Vyner and Atkinson have done well, however it’s not our defensive ‘unit’ that’s the problem it’s individual errors and soft giveaways all over the pitch. Today we won no second ball particularly in the first half which they exploited time and again. Ask Weimann he knows who was responsible for their first which rattled the rest of the team so much. 
 

We give away soft goals and are not mentally tough enough to get over it all over the field. Thus we go two down and our senior defender looks like ass everytime the opposition get the ball. Form and confidence is Naismith’s issue. One too many touches allowing players to be closed down so he has no one to pass to! 
 

The one thing I would criticize is allowing to Idehen out on loan. Still form is temporary class is permanent, let’s hope one or two find form. The issue for Pearson this week is who is fit. Weimann again looked way off….injury.?…who knows. 

 

 

[REDOXO]

6 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I just saw  a little of the game but I noticed that the R’s keeper caught the ball often in his area .  
Their defence were very tight.

They looked well drilled and energetic. 
We lost all momentum when Largish Nige threw on the subs . A team full of forwards is not a well balanced team, with all NP’s experience why does he do that ? 
Andi Weimann has not been in great form for 5 odd games and we have suffered. 
Just a few random thoughts . 

I agree. However our delivery was way off and made it easy for their keeper who was always going to go toward the ball. I definitely agree ala Weimann 

Edited October 1, 2022 by REDOXO

[Jerseybean]

BP ratings https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-player-ratings-qpr-7653092?utm_source=bristol_live_newsletter&utm_campaign=lunchtime_daily_newsletter2&utm_medium=email

individually and collectively not good enough today.

[italian dave]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Did we spend any money in the closed season. Remind me, no really I don’t remember.

Our budget for anything will be dictated by how near we are too an FFP deduction, however there maybe some closer, who knows. We did obtain Lutons player of the year for free and everyone lauded it as a brilliant signing, even the Luton fans went mad because he came here. The fact the bloke has been the biggest liability since Carl Hutchins and Klose and Kalas are Crocked is annoying but hardly Pearsons fault. He has what he has in the academy plus free signings until we sell someone, which we are all aware of. 
 

Vyner and Atkinson have done well, however it’s not our defensive ‘unit’ that’s the problem it’s individual errors and soft giveaways all over the pitch. Today we won no second ball particularly in the first half which they exploited time and again. Ask Weimann he knows who was responsible for their first which rattled the rest of the team so much. 
 

We give away soft goals and are not mentally tough enough to get over it all over the field. Thus we go two down and our senior defender looks like ass everytime the opposition get the ball. Form and confidence is Naismith’s issue. One too many touches allowing players to be closed down so he has no one to pass to! 
 

The one thing I would criticize is allowing to Idehen out on loan. Still form is temporary class is permanent, let’s hope one or two find form. The issue for Pearson this week is who is fit. Weimann again looked way off….injury.?…who knows. 

 

 

I'm not just talking closed season: as I said Pearson has had two years now and - without checking back through every one - my recollection is that most of the changes he's made to personnel have been defensively minded.

He's brought in, for example, two right backs who both sit on the bench while a midfielder fills the right back slot. Ultimately he has to carry the can for Naismith - I don't think you can just dismiss it as being bad luck or somehow an accident that he's not performing here as he did at Luton. (I don't recall LJ or Ashton getting away with their many failed signings on the grounds that they were good at Scunthorpe, Peterborough, Oxford, City on loan, wherever, so how were we to know it would work out at City.)

I agree with the rest of your post completely. I'm not just talking back 3 by any means. By 'defensive unit' I meant much more than that. For me, our two wing backs were a big part of our problem and our frailties today. And yes defending our defence (for want of a better way of putting it) is lacking too. I'm usually one of those defending Vyner - think he's had a decent season. And yes Klose and Kalas are both huge misses. 

But the fact remains that (as was the point of the original post - which wasn't even mine!!) NP was a defender by trade and it's just frustrating that doesn't translate into a manager that stops us giving away soft goals and - all too often - looking disorganised defensively.

You're right about Idehen too - he seemed to be coming more into the picture end of last season - and doing OK - then suddenly gone. That makes us look all the more vulnerable with Klose and Kalas out - no replacements if any of the back 3 get injured or suspended. 

I don't want to appear utterly negative. On the whole this season - despite the goals conceded - we've played some great football, been good to watch, and always look like we've got a goal in us. I recognise that few clubs get both the marauding attack and the solid defence right at the same time. And I'd rather watch us than Preston! But I still feel that its reasonable to anticipate that a manager who was a defender by trade might be expected to produce a more discipline defensive side than we are!

[Jerseybean]

7 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Always enjoy reading these, but not having that Maynard goal in the video reel, feels a shocking omission  

Better late than never: https://youtu.be/YNU_mq21sQ8

[pillred]

3 hours ago, winsaw said:

Yes the officials where very poor but really we let ourselves down silly mistakes leading to the goal and non existent midfield in first half offering no protection to the defence in the middle, we had enough good chances as well to have scored at least 3 need to be clinical like QPR were in front of goal, I liked the start good tempo for the first 15 mins before the goal knocked the stuffing out of us and we finished well after the changes were made, so not all bad but some stuff to work on before Tuesday, 

Does the saying De Ja vu sound familiar? 

[maxjak]

I appreciate this  is premature, but with the podcast i just listened to of the 3 Peaps `Jacki  celebration..........it seems somehow apposite?  Back in the day, we had an amazing forward line of Andy Cole and Jacki, but due to our appalling defending. and our penchant to constantly concede goals, the potentially league winning duo moved on, and the rest is history.

 It just reminded me today, that we have a fantastic strike force and a wonderful midfielder in Scotty, but our defence is mostly inept, and apart from Scott our midfield is no better than average......so you would hardly blame the likes of Scott and Semenyo to look at moving on to new clubs....and the rest is history?

Hopefully my comparison is untimely and irrelevant, and our season will kick on, and things will improve, but the thought occurred to me that we are wasting some of outstanding talent due to the incompetence of  our defending ?            

[redrum]

10 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I appreciate this  is premature, but with the podcast i just listened to of the 3 Peaps `Jacki  celebration..........it seems somehow apposite?  Back in the day, we had an amazing forward line of Andy Cole and Jacki, but due to our appalling defending. and our penchant to constantly concede goals, the potentially league winning duo moved on, and the rest is history.

 It just reminded me today, that we have a fantastic strike force and a wonderful midfielder in Scotty, but our defence is mostly inept, and apart from Scott our midfield is no better than average......so you would hardly blame the likes of Scott and Semenyo to look at moving on to new clubs....and the rest is history?

Hopefully my comparison is untimely and irrelevant, and our season will kick on, and things will improve, but the thought occurred to me that we are wasting some of outstanding talent due to the incompetence of  our defending ?            

A good post. Atkinson is our only natural defender i.e. he can head, tackle, hold his ground. Naismith is a midfielder masquerading as a centre back, Vyner's a trier but not up to it. Could really do with Kalas sooner than later.

Plenty of talent going forward though. Scott needs to play further up the pitch and Semenyo got us on the front foot. Wells had a good game and Conway has been a revelation. Reasons to be positive! COYR

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by redrum

[REDOXO]

49 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I'm not just talking closed season: as I said Pearson has had two years now and - without checking back through every one - my recollection is that most of the changes he's made to personnel have been defensively minded.

He's brought in, for example, two right backs who both sit on the bench while a midfielder fills the right back slot. Ultimately he has to carry the can for Naismith - I don't think you can just dismiss it as being bad luck or somehow an accident that he's not performing here as he did at Luton. (I don't recall LJ or Ashton getting away with their many failed signings on the grounds that they were good at Scunthorpe, Peterborough, Oxford, City on loan, wherever, so how were we to know it would work out at City.)

I agree with the rest of your post completely. I'm not just talking back 3 by any means. By 'defensive unit' I meant much more than that. For me, our two wing backs were a big part of our problem and our frailties today. And yes defending our defence (for want of a better way of putting it) is lacking too. I'm usually one of those defending Vyner - think he's had a decent season. And yes Klose and Kalas are both huge misses. 

But the fact remains that (as was the point of the original post - which wasn't even mine!!) NP was a defender by trade and it's just frustrating that doesn't translate into a manager that stops us giving away soft goals and - all too often - looking disorganised defensively.

You're right about Idehen too - he seemed to be coming more into the picture end of last season - and doing OK - then suddenly gone. That makes us look all the more vulnerable with Klose and Kalas out - no replacements if any of the back 3 get injured or suspended. 

I don't want to appear utterly negative. On the whole this season - despite the goals conceded - we've played some great football, been good to watch, and always look like we've got a goal in us. I recognise that few clubs get both the marauding attack and the solid defence right at the same time. And I'd rather watch us than Preston! But I still feel that its reasonable to anticipate that a manager who was a defender by trade might be expected to produce a more discipline defensive side than we are!

He’s brought in Atkinson Tanner and Wilson. I believe. The two former have had injury issues, but Atkinson is the first name on the sheet now. Tanner was on the bench today as was Wilson, the latter getting on. The thing they all have in common they were playing at a lower level a year or so ago two of them L2. The thought that it will not take some time to bring them through or that one or both might not make it is not that scientific, particularly as Tanner has suffered illness and Injury. 
 

I certainly haven’t dismissed Naismith passing being pony at times and the fact he keeps getting caught in possession as bad luck, that was your comment, but I certainly do think he is suffering with form and confidence he is getting battered, because of it. Is he having difficulty settling in or is he getting older I don’t know, but as I already said form is temporary. Even the greats have dips there. 
 

We are in a situation where we have to build. A year ago there was a dumb ass thread about Semenyo, he was not a striker, they score goals. He has been brought through and is almost certainly off to the World Cup. We needed Martin upfront last season now Conway has an international cap and has come through. That is what we have to do as a club. 
 

Klose and Kalas being unfit is an issue and we agree about Idehen, however we are a mess when we give away poor possession and concede, as I said it gets in their head way too easily, however three games ago we were looking like we could be up there and played well in two of those last three games. 
 

Pearson has work to do. Particularly with the subjects mentioned (individual mistakes, ability to not allow adversity to effect performance, defending as a team and confidence of Naismith) but I don’t throw around blame for stuff that occurs in football no matter what.
 

We are a win away from being decent and a defeat away from blaming a manager who had a fraction of some of the previous guys who had lists upon lists of failed players on massive wages and no ability. To your comment about LJ not getting away with lower league players not being good enough, LJ would keep spending money ridiculously to keep the likes of Schmodics etc etc etc out of the side. It was his thing. Ask the FFP Sadoes (sorry Dave etc you know I don’t mean it) what he spent on lower league players that he ‘upgraded’ with NOT  Lansdowns money, the clubs money, that has brought us to the FFP position we are in. The position has changed and who says Wilson and Tanner won’t be good enough. 
 

I like you, obviously, get a bit pissed off when Naismith buggers up repeatedly, but ultimately blaming Pearson for it is a stretch. But hey we could blame him for Conway Semenyo Weimanns 22 goals etc etc. 

We need to get the next couple of weeks out of the way while options are limited, then take a good look at the BIGGER options. In the meantime Naismith needs something like a goal or assist and yes One or two need to be held accountable for being rubbish TODAY. 
 

 

[bexhill reds]

2 hours ago, RedReynard said:

I was in line with it so easy to see was handball but didn't everyone else in the ground shout for it as well. Seemed like it. Important decisions like that shouldn't be missed by the officials. The linesman on the Lansdown side had a shocker today not just the ref.

In fairness everyone shouts for a penalty if a player is tackled in the box, but it doesn’t necessarily make it one.

The lino by definition would not have had a conclusive view with the keeper diving away from him towards the ball, the ref seemed to be unsighted, plus as I’d said in an earlier post the keeper was cute as he caught the ball in midair so no one had a point of reference  that might have come from where his feet were.

Clearly there would have been some in the ground like you with a much better view, especially those sitting behind the edge of the box, but the for the officials and indeed the TV cameras it was not clear. Granted it looked close though.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by bexhill reds

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

In fairness everyone shouts for a penalty if a player is tackled in the box, but it doesn’t necessarily make it one.

The lino by definition would not have had a conclusive view with the keeper diving away from him towards the ball, the ref seemed to be unsighted, plus as I’d said in an earlier post the keeper was cute as he caught the ball in midair so no one had a point of reference  that might have come from where his feet were.

Clearly there would have been some in the ground like you with a much better view, especially those sitting behind the edge of the box, but the for the officials and indeed the TV cameras it was not clear. Granted it looked close though.

 

 

The problem is that at the moment all of these close calls seem to be going against us. The linesman in front of the Lansdown was useless. That’s why he got such an ironic cheer when he finally gave an offside decision for us after missing the one for the second goal. QPR are a decent side but just like last season at home against them, we have been up against both them and the officials, which means that we are always going to find it difficult, on top of our own defensive weaknesses.

[pogue malone]

Well beaten by a better side 

 

 

[REDOXO]

26 minutes ago, pogue malone said:

beaten by a better side on the day…no doubt

 

 

 

[Swede]

QPR were the better side. They had plenty of pace at the back and out wide which helped to stifle any forward progress we were making.

The frustration yet again was we contributed to their win with some sloppy play and mistakes for the first goal with Weimann's blind pass.

The second goal was clearly offside and it really irks that the linesman on that side just wasn't up with game.

It shows though the level of progress we've made since last season where there's an air of disappointment in losing.

The booing of Wells by their fans made me laugh though. He was only on loan to them so had no say if he was recalled and transferred! They're such an ignorant bunch of plastic cockneys.

[Jerseybean]

14 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

A horribly recurring theme. 

There is a thread ‘throw ins’ which discusses the BCFC trend

[Offside]

I thought we started ok, and had Vyner’s header gone in we might have got something from the game. 

Their first goal (yet again stemming from City giving the ball away) seemed to knock the stuffing out of us and for the rest of the first half we looked wide open. 

Second half we huffed and puffed without really stretching them and the game fizzled out. I agree that the subs seemed to hinder our momentum. 

Our passing was poor, often because we take too long and pass to players who are being closed down. We give the ball away far too much and then look vulnerable. Yesterday we struggled when they played the ball over the top. 

Disappointing performance overall  

 

[italian dave]

13 hours ago, REDOXO said:

He’s brought in Atkinson Tanner and Wilson. I believe. The two former have had injury issues, but Atkinson is the first name on the sheet now. Tanner was on the bench today as was Wilson, the latter getting on. The thing they all have in common they were playing at a lower level a year or so ago two of them L2. The thought that it will not take some time to bring them through or that one or both might not make it is not that scientific, particularly as Tanner has suffered illness and Injury. 
 

I certainly haven’t dismissed Naismith passing being pony at times and the fact he keeps getting caught in possession as bad luck, that was your comment, but I certainly do think he is suffering with form and confidence he is getting battered, because of it. Is he having difficulty settling in or is he getting older I don’t know, but as I already said form is temporary. Even the greats have dips there. 
 

We are in a situation where we have to build. A year ago there was a dumb ass thread about Semenyo, he was not a striker, they score goals. He has been brought through and is almost certainly off to the World Cup. We needed Martin upfront last season now Conway has an international cap and has come through. That is what we have to do as a club. 
 

Klose and Kalas being unfit is an issue and we agree about Idehen, however we are a mess when we give away poor possession and concede, as I said it gets in their head way too easily, however three games ago we were looking like we could be up there and played well in two of those last three games. 
 

Pearson has work to do. Particularly with the subjects mentioned (individual mistakes, ability to not allow adversity to effect performance, defending as a team and confidence of Naismith) but I don’t throw around blame for stuff that occurs in football no matter what.
 

We are a win away from being decent and a defeat away from blaming a manager who had a fraction of some of the previous guys who had lists upon lists of failed players on massive wages and no ability. To your comment about LJ not getting away with lower league players not being good enough, LJ would keep spending money ridiculously to keep the likes of Schmodics etc etc etc out of the side. It was his thing. Ask the FFP Sadoes (sorry Dave etc you know I don’t mean it) what he spent on lower league players that he ‘upgraded’ with NOT  Lansdowns money, the clubs money, that has brought us to the FFP position we are in. The position has changed and who says Wilson and Tanner won’t be good enough. 
 

I like you, obviously, get a bit pissed off when Naismith buggers up repeatedly, but ultimately blaming Pearson for it is a stretch. But hey we could blame him for Conway Semenyo Weimanns 22 goals etc etc. 

We need to get the next couple of weeks out of the way while options are limited, then take a good look at the BIGGER options. In the meantime Naismith needs something like a goal or assist and yes One or two need to be held accountable for being rubbish TODAY. 
 

 

I’ll try to keep this brief: conscious that our respective replies get longer every time

1. He’s also brought in King and James (part of that bigger picture defensively you mentioned). And allowed others to leave (Moore, Cundy, Idehen). 

2. Might it not also be the case with Naismith that it’s about where we play him - centrally? That’s a tactical decision. 

3. Yes, we have to build. And all I’m suggesting is that, with a renowned defender as manager, you might have hoped that two years into that rebuild we might have as a foundation a defensive unit that didn’t have the crowd gasping with anticipation (of the wrong sort) every time we lose the ball! After the second QPR goal yesterday, when we were simply outnumbered, I watched closely and the number of times that we lost possession (which as you say happens too often) when it was 3 v 3 up front for QPR was frightening. 

4 I get pissed off when Naismith buggers up, but when he does it repeatedly I also get pissed off with Pearson for keeping playing him there. One mistake, of course you can’t blame a manager. Repeated mistakes and nothing changes and yes you can look at the manager. (But I also acknowledge the cost/benefit issue with Naismith - in the first half when one of his Cruyff like turns did come off it set up a great chance for us). And I have also acknowledged that we look a different proposition attack wise, and few managers get both at the same time.

5. I don’t know about a Naismith goal or assist. I’d be happy to just have a game where he doesn’t give the ball away in a dangerous position. 

[Lew-T]

This led to the goal…

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

I’ll try to keep this brief: conscious that our respective replies get longer every time

1. He’s also brought in King and James (part of that bigger picture defensively you mentioned). And allowed others to leave (Moore, Cundy, Idehen). 

2. Might it not also be the case with Naismith that it’s about where we play him - centrally? That’s a tactical decision. 

3. Yes, we have to build. And all I’m suggesting is that, with a renowned defender as manager, you might have hoped that two years into that rebuild we might have as a foundation a defensive unit that didn’t have the crowd gasping with anticipation (of the wrong sort) every time we lose the ball! After the second QPR goal yesterday, when we were simply outnumbered, I watched closely and the number of times that we lost possession (which as you say happens too often) when it was 3 v 3 up front for QPR was frightening. 

4 I get pissed off when Naismith buggers up, but when he does it repeatedly I also get pissed off with Pearson for keeping playing him there. One mistake, of course you can’t blame a manager. Repeated mistakes and nothing changes and yes you can look at the manager. (But I also acknowledge the cost/benefit issue with Naismith - in the first half when one of his Cruyff like turns did come off it set up a great chance for us). And I have also acknowledged that we look a different proposition attack wise, and few managers get both at the same time.

5. I don’t know about a Naismith goal or assist. I’d be happy to just have a game where he doesn’t give the ball away in a dangerous position. 

They do. I’ll be brief too.

1 Cundy was offered a contract. Moore  was not considered reliable enough by LJ or Holden. Idehen I would have kept here but he is getting some experience at least 

2 We play him as the senior pro in the back three as he is the best option for now. Atkinson is only just breaking into this level and Vyner who had a good game yesterday is a changed player

3 You seem to switch between defensive unit being defenders and defensive unit being the team. What we do is give the ball away in poor positions (particularly Massengo that’s why he is always on the bench and Naismith but by no means the only ones) and get punished because we play a pressing game high up the pitch. The loose passes and being caught in possession has to stop. 
 

4 so who do you want to play There instead of Naismith right now? In view of the current situation I would have Kalas or Klose. But they are not available. 
 

5 The point was he needs something to go for him to give him and his confidence a lift. We would all be happy if he had a game where he didn’t look like he was going to do something dumb. 

[italian dave]

17 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

They do. I’ll be brief too.

1 Cundy was offered a contract. Moore  was not considered reliable enough by LJ or Holden. Idehen I would have kept here but he is getting some experience at least 

2 We play him as the senior pro in the back three as he is the best option for now. Atkinson is only just breaking into this level and Vyner who had a good game yesterday is a changed player

3 You seem to switch between defensive unit being defenders and defensive unit being the team. What we do is give the ball away in poor positions (particularly Massengo that’s why he is always on the bench and Naismith but by no means the only ones) and get punished because we play a pressing game high up the pitch. The loose passes and being caught in possession has to stop. 
 

4 so who do you want to play There instead of Naismith right now? In view of the current situation I would have Kalas or Klose. But they are not available. 
 

5 The point was he needs something to go for him to give him and his confidence a lift. We would all be happy if he had a game where he didn’t look like he was going to do something dumb. 

No good asking me what I’d do: I’ve not got 450 games as a top class defender and 20 years as a league manager behind me - that’s the whole point

We don’t know the facts about Klose and Kalas of course. But you’d have to assume that they’d have known in August that we could be without both for some time, so maybe bring someone in short term? I imagine that’s why Bamba was here, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out.

Look, I’m not trying to makes cases about individual players, and on the whole I’d agree with pretty much everything you say on those. All that I’m really trying to suggest is that 

a) it’s disappointing that with a manager with that track record above we can be so poor defensively, as a team, and that

b) after two years here, the argument that NP can only work with what he’s got wears a bit thin. He’s responsible for what he’s got now, and he has to be accountable for that ultimately. Like I said earlier, he’s the fifth longest serving manager: at Watford you get 10 games to create a team’s identity or you’re out! (And, no, I don’t want us to be like Watford )

Oh, and I think you are spot on about Vyner. Shameless attempt to get myself added to your footer list of fame - but I do also agree

[Red-Robbo]

Anyone have a screenshot of when their keeper appeared to handle outside the box?

I'll admit my seat doesn't give me the best view, but those behind the goal and our players seem pretty emphatic that he had. 

 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

No good asking me what I’d do: I’ve not got 450 games as a top class defender and 20 years as a league manager behind me - that’s the whole point

We don’t know the facts about Klose and Kalas of course. But you’d have to assume that they’d have known in August that we could be without both for some time, so maybe bring someone in short term? I imagine that’s why Bamba was here, but for whatever reason it didn’t work out.

Look, I’m not trying to makes cases about individual players, and on the whole I’d agree with pretty much everything you say on those. All that I’m really trying to suggest is that 

a) it’s disappointing that with a manager with that track record above we can be so poor defensively, as a team, and that

b) after two years here, the argument that NP can only work with what he’s got wears a bit thin. He’s responsible for what he’s got now, and he has to be accountable for that ultimately. Like I said earlier, he’s the fifth longest serving manager: at Watford you get 10 games to create a team’s identity or you’re out! (And, no, I don’t want us to be like Watford )

Oh, and I think you are spot on about Vyner. Shameless attempt to get myself added to your footer list of fame - but I do also agree

Some of the greats of OTIB are on my footer list. They won’t allow me to add anyone  anymore, the buggers, so you’re ok. 
 

By and large we agree on a lot, but IMO we have made huge strides defending dead balls which was a big issue BUT being caught in possession or poor passing by more than a few puts a high line under pressure. We need to get that sorted and for now I think Naismith needs to put his foot through it a bit more (which incidentally is not perfect but supports the notion that Semenyo should start on Tuesday if Naismith plays)

The notion of Pearson will not be held accountable for his team is not one I would ever put to the guy himself without expecting a smack in the mouth. However his team and transfers are constrained by the availability of funds. That is unarguable. 
 

The remit was to be competitive while spending little, until we can create some cash and bring through OUR youngsters. Which I think he is doing in spades.

We can point to failures but we must point to successes too. The way I see it. Yes we can be better, but I really don’t see us being to far off with a couple returning and Naismith getting his head straight (which I suspect will come when something obviously goes his way)

On another note who do you think/how do you think we should set up without Scott? Assuming Sturdays player fitness is the same?

Edited October 2, 2022 by REDOXO

[italian dave]

48 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Some of the greats of OTIB are on my footer list. They won’t allow me to add anyone  anymore, the buggers, so you’re ok. 
 

By and large we agree on a lot, but IMO we have made huge strides defending dead balls which was a big issue BUT being caught in possession or poor passing by more than a few puts a high line under pressure. We need to get that sorted and for now I think Naismith needs to put his foot through it a bit more (which incidentally is not perfect but supports the notion that Semenyo should start on Tuesday if Naismith plays)

The notion of Pearson will not be held accountable for his team is not one I would ever put to the guy himself without expecting a smack in the mouth. However his team and transfers are constrained by the availability of funds. That is unarguable. 
 

The remit was to be competitive while spending little, until we can create some cash and bring through OUR youngsters. Which I think he is doing in spades.

We can point to failures but we must point to successes too. The way I see it. Yes we can be better, but I really don’t see us being to far off with a couple returning and Naismith getting his head straight (which I suspect will come when something obviously goes his way)

On another note who do you think/how do you think we should set up without Scott? Assuming Sturdays player fitness is the same?

Yes, 100% on the dead balls, that’s so much better than last year. And (whisper it) not quite so many late goals recently. 

And yes, it’s great to see our youngsters coming through and he deserves credit for that. It’s a shame in a way that they are all strikers/midfield; I don’t know whether we have any real defenders coming through? 

Good question on Scott. My instinct is that he’ll give Massengo a start. But I think it will probably depend a little on whether he has any other changes in mind. I know he (rightly) likes to stick with unchanged teams, but I guess that after three defeats he may think about other changes. Tanner/Wilson to RB (although Wilson didn’t do himself any favours on Saturday) and Sykes to midfield for example.

I’m one of those lucky enough to have seen the Massengo/Scott performance at Preston last season, and part of me is disappointed it’s Scott out and not Williams as I’d love to see that pairing given a start again. 

What are your thoughts? 

Edited October 2, 2022 by italian dave

[REDOXO]

22 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Yes, 100% on the dead balls, that’s so much better than last year. And (whisper it) not quite so many late goals recently. 

And yes, it’s great to see our youngsters coming through and he deserves credit for that. It’s a shame in a way that they are all strikers/midfield; I don’t know whether we have any real defenders coming through? 

Good question on Scott. My instinct is that he’ll give Massengo a start. But I think it will probably depend a little on whether he has any other changes in mind. I know he (rightly) likes to stick with unchanged teams, but I guess that after three defeats he may think about other changes. Tanner/Wilson to RB (although Wilson didn’t do himself any favours on Saturday) and Sykes to midfield for example.

I’m one of those lucky enough to have seen the Massengo/Scott performance at Preston last season, and part of me is disappointed it’s Scott out and not Williams as I’d love to see that pairing given a start again. 

What are your thoughts? 

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

[italian dave]

51 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

Mostly similar then. I've said on another thread I think Semenyo will start. And agree that the RB switch is an option - although as I said I'm not sure Wilson did himself any favours Saturday. 

If we disagree its probably on HNM. I genuinely think there's a very good player in there. He needs a settled role in a settled side - something he's never ever had in his time at City. And at the moment it feels like there's a lot of mind games going on which doesn't help: on the one hand he's getting hints along the lines of 'you won't get a place until you sign a contract' and on the other hand he must be thinking that he doesn't want to sign a contract if he's just going to sit on the bench for the next three years. That needs to be resolved, one way or the other - and that I feel will help no end. Even if its not with us. 

As you say, we'll see!

[pongo88]

5 hours ago, Lew-T said:

This led to the goal…

Three yards offside? I think Pezza must have been on the happy juice. Possibly slightly offside but a borderline decision. It’s no good blaming the assistant ref for this as there is no VAR. Sometimes borderline decisions go your way, and sometimes they don’t. I’ve just watched the extended highlights on Sky and City’s first half defending looked even worse than it did in real time yesterday. When I say “defending” I’m being generous as it was just a selection of players in random positions making basic mistakes. 

[22A]

OK, I wasn't at the game, but have now seen the goals several times on TV. Both of QPR's goals came like the majority this and last season have, The oppos break down our right, their left and cross the ball over. It's as if all teams have told each other; "If playing Bristol City, hit the ball to your left winger, he'll have a clear run. Then when he nears their penalty area, hit it over, works every time".

Now if I can see a common factor in goals conceded, why can't the coaching staff?

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Three yards offside? I think Pezza must have been on the happy juice. Possibly slightly offside but a borderline decision. It’s no good blaming the assistant ref for this as there is no VAR. Sometimes borderline decisions go your way, and sometimes they don’t. I’ve just watched the extended highlights on Sky and City’s first half defending looked even worse than it did in real time yesterday. When I say “defending” I’m being generous as it was just a selection of players in random positions making basic mistakes. 

I agree. And their guy was travelling at some speed too: this has the advantage of being static, and even then it’s not that clear.

The question I ask when looking at that picture is how the f### their guy gets into that position (he’s come all the way down their left hand side) and there’s not a sign of any City player anywhere close to having picked the run up. 

[Southport Red]

On 02/10/2022 at 17:58, REDOXO said:

I’m thinking (with no knowledge of new injuries or how they are performing at the HPC) that he may start Semenyo with Wells. To my mind Weimann has not been at it recently and obviously took a knock on international duty, but will start. 
 

The midfield if the injury position has not altered will mean Sykes and Williams in the middle with Wilson getting his chance with DeSilva on the other side to start

Which probably will mean unless something has changed that the back three will continue. 

As I alluded earlier in the discussion (which I have thoroughly enjoyed) I am not a fan of HMN (there are a couple on here that if they read that are guffawing for England @leadman@Southport Red) and would only play him as a last resort. 
 

But that’s me! I guess we will see. 

You’ll be gutted tonight Oxo, your French friend was decent

[REDOXO]

12 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

You’ll be gutted tonight Oxo, your French friend was decent

Decent enough.
 

Hope the boy does something to turn me around. I could only listen to the first half, he had a shot off target I heard. 
 

Second half which I did see he was ok. He often doesn’t get enough on passes which I think Chris Honor commented on too. However he could be in there with Scott whether i like it or not on Saturday. So good luck to him. 

[Southport Red]

11 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Decent enough.
 

Hope the boy does something to turn me around. I could only listen to the first half, he had a shot off target I heard. 
 

Second half which I did see he was ok. He often doesn’t get enough on passes which I think Chris Honor commented on too. However he could be in there with Scott whether i like it or not on Saturday. So good luck to him. 

Shot just off. He hit it well and it was v close. Probs the closest he’s come and the. Closest we got to scoring. 

[REDOXO]

19 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

Shot just off. He hit it well and it was v close. Probs the closest he’s come and the. Closest we got to scoring. 

Did Pearson say anything about Wilson. Not even on the bench if I’m not mistaken?