Pearson

[daored]

Feel he deserves his own thread , wasn’t the team selection I expected but collectively and individually we were excellent. It just goes to show when we have most players available we’re not a bad side. James & Klose were excellent, O’Leary had a good game and come off his line to collect or punch the ball. Let’s not forget the management / players would have been gutted to lose in the way we did Saturday, but what a response 

[DT The Optimist]

top top manager well respected by majority of fan base..And blessed by owners who do not panic & respond to a poor run.  When we win not overboard, same when we lose.

Held in high esteem by many in the game, not least fans Leicester City.  As alluded when he can put out his best players in defence we are not that bad, a few errors have led to a loss of quite a few points, cut those out....

[phantom]

11 minutes ago, daored said:

Feel he deserves his own thread , wasn’t the team selection I expected but collectively and individually we were excellent. It just goes to show when we have most players available we’re not a bad side. James & Klose were excellent, O’Leary had a good game and come off his line to collect or punch the ball. Let’s not forget the management / players would have been gutted to lose in the way we did Saturday, but what a response 

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

[daored]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

Can only hear what’s in front of you, Millwall  weren’t the best on Saturday 

[Super]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

This was a team coming off a good win at Reading. I think we deserve a lot of credit for the way we played.

[cidered abroad]

Just now, phantom said:

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

Yes Albion were poor BUT if we had allowed them to dictate everything, they would have looked like world champions as the fifth goal had flown into the net.

We didn't let them control the game.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

West Brom are not a poor side but one that, despite last Saturdays win at Reading, is one lacking in confidence with players not performing to their abilities. They are a team full of players who would walk into almost any other side in the division including ours. There are plenty on here who would have loved the likes of Jonathan Swift and Jed Wallace (to name but two) here but always knew it was unlikely. We deserved the win last night because we never let them settle or establish a rhythm and pestered them into mistakes. They won a lot of corners but we looked solid all evening. 

[spudski]

Regardless of who he picks, set up etc, I just find NP refreshing in his honesty.

He keeps a very level head. 

It was a good result last night...and a performance of grit and determination.

We do these performances on occasion...we can be skillful as well.

It's the consistency that's lacking. And imo, NP knows deep down that this squad is capable of decent performances, but not capable of doing it on a weekly basis.

Imo...you can't play like we did last night every game. Especially the second half, which could easily in another day ended in a draw or worse. We defended for our lives ...you simply can't do that at this level every game. You have to take control of the game for periods. You have to stop crosses coming in. You have to close down quicker and not give so much space.

I thought WBA were a decent side and showed glimpses of class. Under a decent manager they could easily climb the league imo.

What I see with NP...is a man who knows we can play well, but deep down he knows we won't be able to do it consistently. That's why he never talks us up.

I guess we need to enjoy games like last night...but understand the reality.

 

[marcofisher]

36 minutes ago, phantom said:

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

Swift, Diagana, Phillips, Jed Wallace, even Livermore. All players who at the start of the season would be far above the level of player we could afford/attract to this football club. 

 

They look rudderless as a team yes, but all of those players would get in our team. 

[Harry]

24 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Swift, Diagana, Phillips, Jed Wallace, even Livermore. All players who at the start of the season would be far above the level of player we could afford/attract to this football club. 

 

They look rudderless as a team yes, but all of those players would get in our team. 

Personally I disagree on Phillips and Livermore. I think both are well past their best and I wouldn’t want either in my team. 
I also wouldn’t take their keeper. 
Plus 2 of their centre backs last night are also way past their best - Pieters & Kelly. 
Then Gardner-Hickman in midfield has a helluva lot to prove to me to be considered a good champ level player. 
 

Yes, Swift, Wallace, Diangana, Townsend, O’Shea are all good players, but this is not a dominant WBA team of the past. 
 

[JoeAman08]

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

[archie andrews]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

Valid points but the poor opposition added a boost too

Sorry to disagree phants..... West brom are a wounded animal at the moment and they show some class first half... Granted maybe not the WBA of old but still no mugs... 

[RedEyez]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

Completely disagree. He chops and changes when players underperform and deserve to be dropped, which gives someone else an opportunity to retain the shirt. Exactly the philosophy he said he would follow from day one. He does what he says and has an abundance of integrity. I really like that about him and I’m pleased he’s ours. 

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

The discussion has been done to death but imho he is as good as (actually well above) what we can expect to get in our current situation.  Who would you get to come in? 

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

I don't agree at all with this. We've played a broadly consistent formation all season - with one positional change last night. Seven players - Sykes, Vyner, Naismith, Atkinson, Dasilva, James and Scott - have started consistently when fit whilst another (Weimann) has only been dropped once plus Bentley was playing regularly until two weeks ago. Taking out injuries, that's nine consistent starters plus two from Wells, Semenyo and Conway.

I just cannot see how that can be described as chopping and changing. If anything, my criticism of Pearson is the precise opposite - a reluctance to change the formation when injuries have meant we've lacked the players we need to make it work. 

[Sheltons Army]

11 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

Nonsense 

He gives those in the shirt the opportunity to retain it and challenges those without one to grab it when they get their chance

No one exempt , Bents , last years golden star Andi Weimann.....

Absolutely the way it should be

A fair percentage of his changes have been down to injury or availability 

About as far from LJ and his tinker man / tombola as you could wish for 

[Sturny]

Ridiculous post, no mention of Pearson being a proper manager... 

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, RedEyez said:

Completely disagree. He chops and changes when players underperform and deserve to be dropped, which gives someone else an opportunity to retain the shirt. Exactly the philosophy he said he would follow from day one. He does what he says and has an abundance of integrity. I really like that about him and I’m pleased he’s ours. 

 

Precisely. The alternative to "chopping and changing" is persisting with players who are out-of-form or tired, carrying a minor injury etc.

Bentley had several below par performances, then a shocker at Birmingham.  O'Leary deserves a chance, and despite an error of judgement against Millwall, has pretty much seized the opportunity.

Pearson gives fringe players hope that they can force their way into the team by good performances. Look at Vyner: his career here looked finished last season. This season, he got a chance and has arguably been our most consistent performer. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, DT The Optimist said:

top top manager well respected by majority of fan base..And blessed by owners who do not panic & respond to a poor run.  When we win not overboard, same when we lose.

Held in high esteem by many in the game, not least fans Leicester City.  As alluded when he can put out his best players in defence we are not that bad, a few errors have led to a loss of quite a few points, cut those out....

With respect, is this the same top top manager who has been sacked from multiple managerial posts over the past fifteen years, often after major fallings out with his club?  He may be held in high esteem by Leicester fans, but not sure who else of the clubs he has managed.  He has made some dreadful mistakes for us, and I wonder how many City fans were thinking he was a top top manager after our abject defeat on Saturday.  Ah, but it was ever the case: if we lose it’s the players fault; if we win it’s because of the brilliance of our top top manager.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see him succeed at City, but it’s been a frustrating journey of ups and downs so far, and I don’t think he’s yet earned top top manager status, nor even earned top manager status at the moment.   Fingers crossed though.

Edited October 19, 2022 by The Dolman Pragmatist

[glynriley]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

With respect, is this the same top top manager who has been sacked from multiple managerial posts over the past fifteen years, often after major fallings out with his club?  He may be held in high esteem by Leicester fans, but not sure who else of the clubs he has managed.  He has made some dreadful mistakes for us, and I wonder how many City fans were thinking he was a top top manager after our abject defeat on Saturday.  Ah, but it was ever the case: if we lose it’s the players fault; if we win it’s because of the brilliance of our top top manager.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see him succeed at City, but it’s been a frustrating journey of ups and downs so far, and I don’t think he’s yet earned top top manager status, nor even earned top manager status at the moment.   Fingers crossed though.

Who'd have thought that with the shit show he inherited...??!!

[extonsred]

What I really like about NP is that after games he reports it honestly and very much as most fans saw it. None of the bull......as most managers give..and many of our own managers included...who often took us for mugs n were more keen to justify their own innocence in failure!!

[Robbored]

20 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

Changing the side isn’t something Nige does unless he has to. Thankfully he’s no LJ.

He’s very thoughtful particularly when it comes to individual players. Take last night, AW was in the bench a move that very few of us saw coming. Nige explained that he felt the team needed refreshing and that AW had played virtually every min of the season so far but could on later in the game.

He also takes into consideration the pressure and impact of the Championship on the younger players and Conway, nor HNM  have started in recent games - Nige is managing their well being and acts as a father figure to them. I’m sure they’ll both be back before too long.

Nige really is a very professional and proper manager and we are fortunate to have him.

 

[ScottishRed]

22 minutes ago, lenred said:

The discussion has been done to death but imho he is as good as (actually well above) what we can expect to get in our current situation.  Who would you get to come in? 

And that is the key point isn’t it? We lose a game with a poor performance and the usual suspects come on here stating NP needs to go and that it’s all down to him that we lost or did not play well.

Maybe I have missed it but NOBODY has come up with a credible alternative.

I am certainly not picking on you @JoeAman08 as you are far from the only one but should SL fire the manager or, a far more likely scenario, NP walks away, who is on your list of possible replacements?

Serious question as I am genuinely interested in who you or anyone else thinks could / should replace NP, if that was to be required.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

That's why he never talks us up.

Apart from when he said he wanted us in the top six before the next international break. 
Globally I agree with you, NP has been around long enough not to get fooled. 

[Major Isewater]

40 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Sorry to disagree phants..... West brom are a wounded animal at the moment and they show some class first half... Granted maybe not the WBA of old but still no mugs... 

I agree completely, there are no mugs in the Championship, habitual yo-yo club and whipping boys, Rotherham are making a damn good fist of it this season and I think they will stay up. 
The margins are wafer thin in this division, a lapse of concentration or a mistake and you are toast, 

Thrilling to watch, if stressful when it’s your own club playing. 

[petehinton]

8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Apart from when he said he wanted us in the top six before the next international break. 
Globally I agree with you, NP has been around long enough not to get fooled. 

And he’d only say that if he knew we were capable. Hence why he’s been so pissed off with performances of that. He knows we’re better, which we’ve shown. 

[JoeAman08]

39 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

Completely disagree. He chops and changes when players underperform and deserve to be dropped, which gives someone else an opportunity to retain the shirt. Exactly the philosophy he said he would follow from day one. He does what he says and has an abundance of integrity. I really like that about him and I’m pleased he’s ours. 

He falls into good performances when he chops and changes. Expect it will be same squad on Saturday and if it is poor the next match he'll make changes again. You can’t expect consistent performances when you have the shirt for 2 games then out of team for 3. 

 

39 minutes ago, lenred said:

The discussion has been done to death but imho he is as good as (actually well above) what we can expect to get in our current situation.  Who would you get to come in? 

I did not say sack him I said unconvinced. I’d see where we are at seasons end. If bottom half again then I’d move him on and let someone else have the ability to bring in their players as we will have some room to sign players with all the ooc. At least half the division is struggling financially so it is not really a great excuse for keeping someone who is not working. 

 

37 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I don't agree at all with this. We've played a broadly consistent formation all season - with one positional change last night. Seven players - Sykes, Vyner, Naismith, Atkinson, Dasilva, James and Scott - have started consistently when fit whilst another (Weimann) has only been dropped once plus Bentley was playing regularly until two weeks ago. Taking out injuries, that's nine consistent starters plus two from Wells, Semenyo and Conway.

I just cannot see how that can be described as chopping and changing. If anything, my criticism of Pearson is the precise opposite - a reluctance to change the formation when injuries have meant we've lacked the players we need to make it work. 

See first response. He chops and changes gets a result and then 3 days later when we have a poor performance he changes 3-4 again. So maybe chop and change the wrong description but he does not allow for consistency. If he thinks this is his best XI then he should treat it that way. Our poor performances imo are on NP a lot of the time for me but he’ll use players as scapegoats. 

 

33 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Nonsense 

He gives those in the shirt the opportunity to retain it and challenges those without one to grab it when they get their chance

No one exempt , Bents , last years golden star Andi Weimann.....

Absolutely the way it should be

A fair percentage of his changes have been down to injury or availability 

About as far from LJ and his tinker man / tombola as you could wish for 

He isn’t better than LJ he just has less tools to chop and change with imo. A lot of the same things NP has been doing was things we crushed LJ for at the end. The problem isn’t changing 3-4 players. In my view NP is lacking tactically and therefore makes personnel switches rather than tactical ones. 

 

10 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

And that is the key point isn’t it? We lose a game with a poor performance and the usual suspects come on here stating NP needs to go and that it’s all down to him that we lost or did not play well.

Maybe I have missed it but NOBODY has come up with a credible alternative.

I am certainly not picking on you @JoeAman08 as you are far from the only one but should SL fire the manager or, a far more likely scenario, NP walks away, who is on your list of possible replacements?

Serious question as I am genuinely interested in who you or anyone else thinks could / should replace NP, if that was to be required.

No again, I am unconvinced. Not saying get rid right now. I would evaluate over this season and make a decision before the window opens or towards the end of the season. With money opening up from so many ooc and only a year to pay out if we moved on it would make sense to look at all options. I’d even say if you were keeping NP you’d almost have to give him a new contract at the end of the season. 
 

My main point here is I have doubts. Our highs are very high and our lows very low. We don’t seem to have a middle ground for me and that worries me. Outside of last night we can’t seem to put in a competent attacking and defensive display in the same game. I don’t expect perfection but for me we still seem a jumbled mess and I don’t know what to expect on a game to game basis from a performance stand point

[ExiledAjax]

Pearson changes players. Johnson changed systems.

Pearson has a smaller squad with fewer options. He's simplified things. Sometimes, when the 352 doesn't work or is let down by individual performances, he changes a player or 3 to compensate.

Johnson had so many clubs in his bag that when his busy bees lacked that little bit of quality he was able to switch to a 4222 magic box and back again. 

Both are reactive, both make changes, but the one we have now allows for consistency of system despite inconsistency of personnel. It's far superior as it actually allows an individual's failure to be a positive. They come out of the team, watch someone else play the same role and if that new player does better than there's a role model created. Retaining the same system allows the group as a whole to grow and develop within a known framework.

It's much better than lurching from formation to formation with no player knowing where they stand - literally and figuratively.

Edited October 19, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[tin]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

So you expect him to pick the same team, same formation, when we’ve got games Weds, Sat, Tues? That’s madness. 

If ever the was a time to “chop and change”, it’s this season (and not for a moment do I think he chops and changes because he doesn’t have hardly many options to do so!)

Still, six points from three games in six days isn’t enough for some people. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by tin

[2015]

I have disagreed with some of his in game tactics recently but those who were calling for his head need to look at the bigger picture.

Financial constraints, a small squad, recent injuries to key players (Naismith, James, Kalas, Klose). Bedding in young and inexperienced players at this level (Conway, Scott, Sykes, Atkinson, Wilson). 

Pearson is doing an ok job, we're inconsistent but I think that is to be expected of our current side. I see it as a side in transition personally.

[Supersonic Robin]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It was a good result last night...and a performance of grit and determination.

We do these performances on occasion...we can be skillful as well.

Imo...you can't play like we did last night every game. Especially the second half, which could easily in another day ended in a draw or worse. We defended for our lives ...you simply can't do that at this level every game. You have to take control of the game for periods. You have to stop crosses coming in. You have to close down quicker and not give so much space.

Agree - perhaps slightly controversial, but I think 2-0 probably flattered us a little bit. It felt like we conceded a huge amount of "yardage" and spent a lot of time defending inside our own penalty area. On another day we probably don't keep a clean sheet in that game. That's not to say we didn't deserve to win, just that it maybe isn't a sustainable way to win games.

It was still a good performance from us though - brave, committed, hard working, relatively organised. We took our chances and threw our bodies in front of their chances.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Supersonic Robin

[Sheltons Army]

For all the protestations from some that they ‘don’t rate Pearson’ as a continual theme ,

but ‘really want him to do well here’ ,

that simply doesn’t ring very solid or genuine

Theres a noticeable few, for example ,  for whom Pearson was in their sights from the moment he signed Danny Simpson and ever since only have criticism at every opportunity

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

West Brom are not a poor side but one that, despite last Saturdays win at Reading, is one lacking in confidence with players not performing to their abilities. They are a team full of players who would walk into almost any other side in the division including ours. There are plenty on here who would have loved the likes of Jonathan Swift and Jed Wallace (to name but two) here but always knew it was unlikely. We deserved the win last night because we never let them settle or establish a rhythm and pestered them into mistakes. They won a lot of corners but we looked solid all evening. 

Agree.  They aren’t as good as a normal PL Parachute Club, but they have good players, as you and others have mentioned.  I said pre-game it wasn’t as strong as they could be, but still a challenge.  The last thing you want to give a team low in the table at home is an early goal.  Was our undoing against Brum.

2 hours ago, spudski said:

Regardless of who he picks, set up etc, I just find NP refreshing in his honesty.

He keeps a very level head. 

It was a good result last night...and a performance of grit and determination.

We do these performances on occasion...we can be skillful as well.

It's the consistency that's lacking. And imo, NP knows deep down that this squad is capable of decent performances, but not capable of doing it on a weekly basis.

Imo...you can't play like we did last night every game. Especially the second half, which could easily in another day ended in a draw or worse. We defended for our lives ...you simply can't do that at this level every game. You have to take control of the game for periods. You have to stop crosses coming in. You have to close down quicker and not give so much space.

I thought WBA were a decent side and showed glimpses of class. Under a decent manager they could easily climb the league imo.

What I see with NP...is a man who knows we can play well, but deep down he knows we won't be able to do it consistently. That's why he never talks us up.

I guess we need to enjoy games like last night...but understand the reality.

 

I might be misreading your comments in bold above, but we pretty much did most / all of those things, e.g. control, etc in the first half.  It wasn’t a smash and grab.  We could’ve scored as early as the 2nd minute as we created two good situations, Semenyo, then Wells.  Still trying to work out how Wells didn’t get a shot off Although I think we were pushed back rather than sat back second half, in many respects that’s what a 2-0 lead affords you.  It’s bloody rate for us to have that luxury.  Blackburn was a bit different because we played well almost all 90, and 4-1 / 5-1 would’ve been very just.

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Personally I disagree on Phillips and Livermore. I think both are well past their best and I wouldn’t want either in my team. 
I also wouldn’t take their keeper. 
Plus 2 of their centre backs last night are also way past their best - Pieters & Kelly. 
Then Gardner-Hickman in midfield has a helluva lot to prove to me to be considered a good champ level player. 
 

Yes, Swift, Wallace, Diangana, Townsend, O’Shea are all good players, but this is not a dominant WBA team of the past. 
 

See above.

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

Disagree, looks like others responded ahead of me, so won’t add to their comments.

[JoeAman08]

27 minutes ago, tin said:

So you expect him to pick the same team, same formation, when we’ve got games Weds, Sat, Tues? That’s madness. 

If ever the was a time to “chop and change”, it’s this season (and not for a moment do I think he chops and changes because he doesn’t have hardly many options to do so!)

Still, six points from three games in six days isn’t enough for some people. 

Funnily enough when we had our good run earlier it is exactly what we did. Kept the same settled side. Matty James getting injured did not help but once results started changing it was 2 changes this game then 3 more the next then 2 again. My point being is NP has been reluctant to make tactical switches(like dropping Weimann) so instead he changes personnel with the same setup hoping for different results. Last night could very well be the start of things changing and being stable but last night is not enough for me to forget the horrid performance in the last 5. 
 

The results aren’t my issue. The issue is consistency something NP has yet to get from any of his squads. We have had some good 3-4-5 game stretches but we often follow them up with similar stretches of poor performances. That is why I remain unconvinced. Many use lack of funds as their main argument for NP but yet at least half the division are up against ffp. Sides like Luton and Preston sit above us relying on frees and loans. There is a perspective to be had and NP sits bang in the middle for me. Not the messiah and not a disaster. I want to see more before we let him make all the decisions on ooc players and new players this upcoming summer

[lenred]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

Funnily enough when we had our good run earlier it is exactly what we did. Kept the same settled side. Matty James getting injured did not help but once results started changing it was 2 changes this game then 3 more the next then 2 again. My point being is NP has been reluctant to make tactical switches(like dropping Weimann) so instead he changes personnel with the same setup hoping for different results. Last night could very well be the start of things changing and being stable but last night is not enough for me to forget the horrid performance in the last 5. 
 

The results aren’t my issue. The issue is consistency something NP has yet to get from any of his squads. We have had some good 3-4-5 game stretches but we often follow them up with similar stretches of poor performances. That is why I remain unconvinced. Many use lack of funds as their main argument for NP but yet at least half the division are up against ffp. Sides like Luton and Preston sit above us relying on frees and loans. There is a perspective to be had and NP sits bang in the middle for me. Not the messiah and not a disaster. I want to see more before we let him make all the decisions on ooc players and new players this upcoming summer

Why do you not get that we do not have the squad quality or depth to produce consistency? And that we don’t have that because we cannot afford it? 

[CheddarReds]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Pearson changes players. Johnson changed systems.

Pearson has a smaller squad with fewer options. He's simplified things. Sometimes, when the 352 doesn't work or is let down by individual performances, he changes a player or 3 to compensate.

Johnson had so many clubs in his bag that when his busy bees lacked that little bit of quality he was able to switch to a 4222 magic box and back again. 

Both are reactive, both make changes, but the one we have now allows for consistency of system despite inconsistency of personnel. It's far superior as it actually allows an individual's failure to be a positive. They come out of the team, watch someone else play the same role and if that new player does better than there's a role model created. Retaining the same system allows the group as a whole to grow and develop within a known framework.

It's much better than lurching from formation to formation with no player knowing where they stand - literally and figuratively.

Glad you said that first sentence as I was thinking it while reading this thread. Your post is a fair summary.

The comparison between Johnson and Pearson could start an interesting debate on team selection based on qualities vs management (ofc it isn't binary). I tend to like the idea of picking players and (sometimes) systems to react to oppositions strengths and weaknesses. Though Pearson's doing a great job of changing the mindset within the squad. One way he's done that is providing the challenge/ opportunity of if you play well you keep your shirt but if you step in then you have to take your opportunity. 

[spudski]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I might be misreading your comments in bold above, but we pretty much did most / all of those things, e.g. control, etc in the first half.  It wasn’t a smash and grab.  We could’ve scored as early as the 2nd minute as we created two good situations, Semenyo, then Wells.  Still trying to work out how Wells didn’t get a shot off Although I think we were pushed back rather than sat back second half, in many respects that’s what a 2-0 lead affords you.  It’s bloody rate for us to have that luxury.  Blackburn was a bit different because we played well almost all 90, and 4-1 / 5-1 would’ve been very just.

 

I agree we did what we did first half Dave...and we did it well to our standards.

My point being we don't have the ability it seems, to control games consistently like we did in the first half. 

Yesterday was a prime example of how we play when at our best. A period of time in control and a period of time defending for our lives and not controlling the game.

Very very rarely do we control the majority of a game. 

Then we revert to sort and become less consistent in our play in other games.

Yes we controlled to a degree the first half and put away our chances. Second half was a brave performance of defending and throwing ourselves at everything. We couldn't find a way of controlling the game second half.

Our game it seems is to create chances but also allow many chances. When it goes our way, we score from our chances and the opposition don't. 

This is why I think we can't keep playing the same way and be successful consistently.

They hit the woodwork twice yesterday and bombarded our area, creating many corners.

We can't play like that every game and succeed. It's a game of fine margins. On another day we would have drawn or lost that game with the same performance.

For me...our problems stem from our wing backs. 

They don't defend well enough consistently. And allow too many crosses and space.

If we could better those positions, then I could see us controlling more.

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

He falls into good performances when he chops and changes. Expect it will be same squad on Saturday and if it is poor the next match he'll make changes again. You can’t expect consistent performances when you have the shirt for 2 games then out of team for 3.

why do you claim “he falls into a good performance”…that’s just you saying it’s down to luck.  It in no way feels anything like LJ and the reason I wrote my “placebo” thread all those years ago.

For me, this feels like the most tenuous claim of all.  See pic below showing who’s started each game and those unavailable.  We’ve had multiple unchanged line-ups, and have had to manage Joe Williams too.

I did not say sack him I said unconvinced. I’d see where we are at seasons end. If bottom half again then I’d move him on and let someone else have the ability to bring in their players as we will have some room to sign players with all the ooc. At least half the division is struggling financially so it is not really a great excuse for keeping someone who is not working.

bottom half starts at 13th…would not 13th be a decent improvement position-wise, let alone the way we are playing over last season with little / no outlay in the summer, continuing to balance the books etc.  If you said bottom third, then I might sense more concern.

See first response. He chops and changes gets a result and then 3 days later when we have a poor performance he changes 3-4 again. So maybe chop and change the wrong description but he does not allow for consistency. If he thinks this is his best XI then he should treat it that way. Our poor performances imo are on NP a lot of the time for me but he’ll use players as scapegoats.

for me he’s allowed exactly for consistency, picking the same system (little in game tweaks at times) to allow players to build their confidence in it and their playing partners.  Players have not executed in the main, I.e. it is them that is inconsistent, they’ve been giving the tools.

He isn’t better than LJ he just has less tools to chop and change with imo. A lot of the same things NP has been doing was things we crushed LJ for at the end. The problem isn’t changing 3-4 players. In my view NP is lacking tactically and therefore makes personnel switches rather than tactical ones. 

I see them very differently and suggesting he’d chop and change more if he had the tools is totally speculative.  I’m not sure who brought LJ into this conversation but it seems to be muddying the waters, I.e. using LJ to justify your comments on Nige.

No again, I am unconvinced. Not saying get rid right now. I would evaluate over this season and make a decision before the window opens or towards the end of the season. With money opening up from so many ooc and only a year to pay out if we moved on it would make sense to look at all options. I’d even say if you were keeping NP you’d almost have to give him a new contract at the end of the season.

Fair opinion.
 

My main point here is I have doubts. Our highs are very high and our lows very low. We don’t seem to have a middle ground for me and that worries me. Outside of last night we can’t seem to put in a competent attacking and defensive display in the same game. I don’t expect perfection but for me we still seem a jumbled mess and I don’t know what to expect on a game to game basis from a performance stand point

in 16 games how many “very lows” have we really had?  Conversely how many very highs have we had.  Brum = very bad, no others for me.  Blackburn = very good.  All others in between.  I’ve liked more about our performances than I’ve disliked.  Individual / collective errors aside.

I disagree with so much of the above Joe, comments in line, but it’s all about opinions.
 

Black diamond = suspended / blue triangle = injured / light blue half-circle = ill / personal

5 players have started every league match available to them (red highlight)

2 players all bar one (orange highlight).

For me, it really shows anything but “chop and change”.
 

If I were manager I’m sure I’d have freshened up more than Nige has, so the fact that he hasn’t shows a consistent approach to me.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree we did what we did first half Dave...and we did it well to our standards.

My point being we don't have the ability it seems, to control games consistently like we did in the first half. 

Yesterday was a prime example of how we play when at our best. A period of time in control and a period of time defending for our lives and not controlling the game.

Very very rarely do we control the majority of a game. 

Then we revert to sort and become less consistent in our play in other games.

Yes we controlled to a degree the first half and put away our chances. Second half was a brave performance of defending and throwing ourselves at everything. We couldn't find a way of controlling the game second half.

Our game it seems is to create chances but also allow many chances. When it goes our way, we score from our chances and the opposition don't. 

This is why I think we can't keep playing the same way and be successful consistently.

They hit the woodwork twice yesterday and bombarded our area, creating many corners.

We can't play like that every game and succeed. It's a game of fine margins. On another day we would have drawn or lost that game with the same performance.

For me...our problems stem from our wing backs. 

They don't defend well enough consistently. And allow too many crosses and space.

If we could better those positions, then I could see us controlling more.

 

Yep, I understand you now…ta.

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he pick an unchanged side against Millwall? He usually does after a good performance.

Lee Johnson was a manager that chopped and changed too much.

[ProfitInMyPocket]

Look at the whole of the Championship, there isn't one consistent team amongst them.

If anyone was remotely consistent they'd be breezing this division, anyone can beat anyone. We got picked apart by QPR, they got beat by Luton, we beat Luton with ten men for almost half an hour and deservedly so.

Bipolar fanbase, bipolar Bristol City performances in a bipolar division. 

Plenty of ups and downs, wouldn't be football if it was all plain-sailing and easy.

 

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Look at the whole of the Championship, there isn't one consistent team amongst them.

If anyone was remotely consistent they'd be breezing this division, anyone can beat anyone. We got picked apart by QPR, they got beat by Luton, we beat Luton with ten men for almost half an hour and deservedly so.

Bipolar fanbase, bipolar Bristol City performances in a bipolar division. 

Plenty of ups and downs, wouldn't be football if it was all plain-sailing and easy.

 

Spot on.

[ExiledAjax]

53 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

I tend to like the idea of picking players and (sometimes) systems to react to oppositions strengths and weaknesses.

If you have a squad that is broad enough, with enough talent across the board then this is an option. Naturally if you want to be capable of playing two different styles of a football to a high standard then you either need two sets of players, each attuned to a different system, or you need a squad of multi-talented footballing demi-gods armed with both the technical ability and the tactical knowledge to execute multiple systems. At our level and on our budget achieving this is, in my humble opinion, a pipe dream.

It's a lovely day dream, and as you say it is an attractive idea, but I think if we are honest about where this club is right now, it's not there. Very few clubs can even start to try and achieve this kind of true flexibility.

56 minutes ago, CheddarReds said:

One way he's done that is providing the challenge/ opportunity of if you play well you keep your shirt but if you step in then you have to take your opportunity. 

I agree. My point in my first post though was that Pearson (and Gould, Fleming etc) have pruned off the excess and sanded us into a single style. Rather than a jumbled squad bursting at the seams with very diverse talents (Palmer and Kalas for example are two players different in their very soul) we are focussed on one system. 

Under Johnson say you have a bad game. You're hooked, and simultaneously he has to change the system because you were key to it. You then sit on the bench thinking not only "I should be in the XI" but also "why are we playing system X, which I am no good at". Then injuries bite and you end up back in the XI but in a different role. Your a square peg in a round hole. You hate it and you play badly. It all becomes messy because the manager tried to do what you describe in the first quoted line above.

The sensible alternative - sensible for a club with our limitations - is to pick a system, recruit for it, and then rotate players through it as they come in and out of fitness and form. Doing that means that on occasion you'll get hammered by a team that is set up to dismantle you. However those players on the bench can understand that. Also, when their opportunity comes they know what they're going to be asked to do, and they've seen what not to do, and so they can predict what they need to do.

It's a style of management that acknowledges the organisation's weaknesses and sets up the team to cope with those. 

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Why do you not get that we do not have the squad quality or depth to produce consistency? And that we don’t have that because we cannot afford it? 

It is a boring excuse. Plenty of clubs with not much to spend. Preston no money consistently defend well. Above us in the table. Luton Town who couldn’t compete with us for their player of the season this last summer while “not being able to afford much” are above us and have lost 3 times. Anywhere from 50-75% of clubs in the championship are suffering financially. There were not many fees paid across the division.

Now, more importantly, NP has said numerous times he will only sign players that make us better. If you take out some older signings like Simpson, Klose and King he has still signed 6 players. You’d expect adding 6 players with the emergence of 2 academy players in Conway and Scott to add enough quality to progress the club. Especially adding them to a very experienced core already here with players like Weimann, Martin, Wells, Kalas, Dasilva and Bentley. Yet I am supposed to pretend NP is working miracles?
 

No, as I keep saying I am not convinced with him. I am comfortable enough saying it after a 2-0 win and if we lose 3-0 Saturday I would have the same feeling. Over his whole tenure we are roughly in the same place with some credit for having to navigate a mess left by his predecessors and building the squad cohesiveness. Then some negative for not sorting out basics of defending and set pieces. He hasn’t had the best of resources but has had resources nonetheless. 

[pigeon]

I can't remember the last time I had this much faith in our management staff; Pearson, Fleming, Euell (what a great addition he seems to have been so far) and Cisse. All of them bring different qualities and, for the first time in a very long time, even when we're going through a bad run I don't have any feeling that we should sort out the backroom staff - it's all individual player related criticism. 

Pearson is a true leader and commands respect, and I think that is something we've not had from our manager in a very long time. I think he isn't necessarily a master tactician, but with Fleming and certainly Euell, it's an incredibly well balanced team. I also get the impression he's enjoying life at the club and really starting to become settled into things - hopefully results in some exciting times for us over the next few seasons. 

Hopefully this comment ages well, but right now, overall it's good to be a City fan. Credit where it's due; thanks for giving us a manager to be proud of, SL! 

[lenred]

36 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

It is a boring excuse. Plenty of clubs with not much to spend. Preston no money consistently defend well. Above us in the table. Luton Town who couldn’t compete with us for their player of the season this last summer while “not being able to afford much” are above us and have lost 3 times. Anywhere from 50-75% of clubs in the championship are suffering financially. There were not many fees paid across the division.

Now, more importantly, NP has said numerous times he will only sign players that make us better. If you take out some older signings like Simpson, Klose and King he has still signed 6 players. You’d expect adding 6 players with the emergence of 2 academy players in Conway and Scott to add enough quality to progress the club. Especially adding them to a very experienced core already here with players like Weimann, Martin, Wells, Kalas, Dasilva and Bentley. Yet I am supposed to pretend NP is working miracles?
 

No, as I keep saying I am not convinced with him. I am comfortable enough saying it after a 2-0 win and if we lose 3-0 Saturday I would have the same feeling. Over his whole tenure we are roughly in the same place with some credit for having to navigate a mess left by his predecessors and building the squad cohesiveness. Then some negative for not sorting out basics of defending and set pieces. He hasn’t had the best of resources but has had resources nonetheless. 

So you’re not happy with him, won’t accept the reality instead saying they are ‘boring excuses’  but won’t provide a realistic alternative that you think will improve us and our current position. Oke doke. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

It is a boring excuse. Plenty of clubs with not much to spend. Preston no money consistently defend well. Above us in the table. Luton Town who couldn’t compete with us for their player of the season this last summer while “not being able to afford much” are above us and have lost 3 times. Anywhere from 50-75% of clubs in the championship are suffering financially. There were not many fees paid across the division.

Boring excuse or realistic positioning?  our financial situation is awful.  We are under severe pressure to comply with FFP.  We’ve got players we’ve massively overpaid for (wages, fees, both in some cases) that stop us changing the squad.  Our situation is much worse that anyone else, bar a very small number…Stoke the main one.  Reading the other, but they are already under monitoring.  Other clubs, although “not much to spend”, aren’t up against the £39m, they choose to run their budgets well (Luton, Coventry, Preston, Millwall) and have been able to evolve their squad because they haven’t got £25k per week with £1m amortisation millstones around their neck.

Those clubs can legitimately trade.  We can only trade if we are prepared for an impairment, e.g. Palmer.  That’s a very different situation

Don’t get me wrong, it’s all our own fault, but it is severely constraining.  We are positioning ourselves to come out of it…in time!

Not sure if I’ve explained it that well.

Now, more importantly, NP has said numerous times he will only sign players that make us better. If you take out some older signings like Simpson, Klose and King he has still signed 6 players. You’d expect adding 6 players with the emergence of 2 academy players in Conway and Scott to add enough quality to progress the club. Especially adding them to a very experienced core already here with players like Weimann, Martin, Wells, Kalas, Dasilva and Bentley. Yet I am supposed to pretend NP is working miracles?

Whoopee.  6 players in 3 windows!!

Two from Lg2 (one in a promoted team if that makes any difference) - Wilson / Tanner

Two from Lg1 - Atkinson / Sykes

Two from Champ - James / Naismith 

Have I wrongly categorised / missed any?

He has progressed the club!  Don’t forget it’s not just incomings, but he’s lost players too, whatever your or my view on how good they are. Nagy, Palmer, O’Dowda, Cundy, Bakinson (and Baker).  It cost us to lose Nagy and Palmer.

He’s not working miracles, but he’s doing a bloody good job at stabilising us (and improving some areas) after taking over a right old mess.  The previous CEO and current owner undermined Holden re player contracts and once they’d got rid of him, left it for / needed an experienced head to get them out of the mire, with the CEO already knowing he wouldn’t be around to have to deal with it.
 

No, as I keep saying I am not convinced with him. I am comfortable enough saying it after a 2-0 win and if we lose 3-0 Saturday I would have the same feeling. Over his whole tenure we are roughly in the same place with some credit for having to navigate a mess left by his predecessors and building the squad cohesiveness. Then some negative for not sorting out basics of defending and set pieces. He hasn’t had the best of resources but has had resources nonetheless.

we had to bottom out first.  That first summer he lost a big slug of the squad too…not mentioned in the names above.

 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Excellent response Dave but unfortunately you’re pushing against a closed door ……….hardly worth the effort with a poster with unshakable negative views…………..

[JoeAman08]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

6 players is more than half the starting XI. His words are he won’t bring in for the sake of it. They improve the squad. The vast majority of our 18 are players he already had here.
 

He has made odd decisions over his tenure like not playing Wells. Or deploying Weimann as a more conventional midfielder. Then we he drops Weimann and plays Wells we look better and then there is massive praise for him. 

 

All I am trying to get across is a balance. We win 2-0 away to West Brom and we forget a dreadful performance against Millwall. He has had ups and has had downs. I am keeping in perspective. We disagree on the amount of credit he gets for some things and that is fine. We’ll see where we are at seasons end. Anything top half and I will have to swallow my pride and give him more credit. At the minute I am where I am on him. 

 

20 minutes ago, lenred said:

So you’re not happy with him, won’t accept the reality instead saying they are ‘boring excuses’  but won’t provide a realistic alternative that you think will improve us and our current position. Oke doke. 

 you are thick aren’t you? 
 

I 

did

NOT

say 

get

rid

 

So why would I need to pluck an alternative out of a hat for? You Pearson lovers are an odd bunch. I don’t love or hate him. He has been pretty average in his spell here all things considered in my view. 

[redkev]

5 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Let’s slow down. For me he chops and changes far too much and he eventually gets a response. The lack of consistency still plagues the team well into his tenure. Last night was great but it was one game against a side low on confidence. I remain unconvinced with NP. 

He chops and changes because of the injuries, our problem being once we lose even 2 players to injury we just haven’t got the quality in depth to replace them ,I honestly think if everybody is fit and players have that bit of confidence we have a top 8 side possibly play offs ( just ) 

lots of ifs I know 

[lenred]

17 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

6 players is more than half the starting XI. His words are he won’t bring in for the sake of it. They improve the squad. The vast majority of our 18 are players he already had here.
 

He has made odd decisions over his tenure like not playing Wells. Or deploying Weimann as a more conventional midfielder. Then we he drops Weimann and plays Wells we look better and then there is massive praise for him. 

 

All I am trying to get across is a balance. We win 2-0 away to West Brom and we forget a dreadful performance against Millwall. He has had ups and has had downs. I am keeping in perspective. We disagree on the amount of credit he gets for some things and that is fine. We’ll see where we are at seasons end. Anything top half and I will have to swallow my pride and give him more credit. At the minute I am where I am on him. 

 

 you are thick aren’t you? 
 

I 

did

NOT

say 

get

rid

 

So why would I need to pluck an alternative out of a hat for? You Pearson lovers are an odd bunch. I don’t love or hate him. He has been pretty average in his spell here all things considered in my view. 

Ahhhhhhh…….You’re calling me thick, and odd? Ok Joe.  You crack on. But you are the one slagging him off constantly and pretending to not want him gone when all your snide, pathetic little posts suggest otherwise, all the while it seems having f all clue about the realities of our club and the financial position we are in.  This isn’t the NFL or the NBA where you can just throw money at problems, this is English Championship football and given the shit show we have been in over the last few years Pearson has done a good job. If that makes me ‘Thick, odd, Pearson lover’ then so be it.  

[Sheltons Army]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

 

46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Excellent response Dave but unfortunately you’re pushing against a closed door ……….hardly worth the effort with a poster with unshakable negative views…………..

I agree,

I admire you for your patience and persistence in repeatedly being gracious enough to actually explain the realities

I also think you are wasting your time unfortunately , with some who are intent on ignoring the realities , but aligning progress with a game on Championship Manager

 

[JoeAman08]

8 minutes ago, redkev said:

He chops and changes because of the injuries, our problem being once we lose even 2 players to injury we just haven’t got the quality in depth to replace them ,I honestly think if everybody is fit and players have that bit of confidence we have a top 8 side possibly play offs ( just ) 

lots of ifs I know 

Well I actually agree with the top 8 side. Perhaps why I am so critical. Have thought this was the season to go for it as next season there is bound to be lots of change. 

 

5 minutes ago, lenred said:

Ahhhhhhh…….You’re calling me thick, and odd? Ok Joe.  You crack on. But you are the one slagging him off constantly and pretending to not want him gone when all your snide, pathetic little posts suggest otherwise, all the while it seems having f all clue about the realities of our club and the financial position we are in.  This isn’t the NFL or the NBA where you can just throw money at problems, this is English Championship football and given the shit show we have been in over the last few years Pearson has done a good job. If that makes me ‘Thick, odd, Pearson lover’ then so be it.  

What the sports where there are salary caps so therefore you have to watch how you spend? But yea the american in me just wants to throw money at it  Then gets angry when his intelligence is questioned. As a regular on this forum, I am very well aware of our finances as are most on here. My problems aren’t how much we spent. It is the why are we not getting the most from what we have spent. 

I don’t care if he is here or not. I was very excited when we lured him here. Truth is, we are very much a very similar product on the pitch as to when he was appointed. We could have had me or you at the helm and the finances would be the same. Doubt when we were inevitably awful would the financial situation be our defence like it has been for NP. Ask yourself if it was Holden or Lee Johnson and everything the same would you be praising them like you are Pearson? I doubt it and that is my issue. He just happens to be the one that took over in our time of need. I am not giving credit for that. Credit for being honest and thoughtful? Yes. Credit for making the squad much more cohesive than we had seen in awhile? Yes. Plenty of credit to be dished out to him. Maybe my criticisms are harsh but they are mine. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

6 players is more than half the starting XI. His words are he won’t bring in for the sake of it. They improve the squad. The vast majority of our 18 are players he already had here.
 

He has made odd decisions over his tenure like not playing Wells. Or deploying Weimann as a more conventional midfielder. Then we he drops Weimann and plays Wells we look better and then there is massive praise for him. 

 

All I am trying to get across is a balance. We win 2-0 away to West Brom and we forget a dreadful performance against Millwall. He has had ups and has had downs. I am keeping in perspective. We disagree on the amount of credit he gets for some things and that is fine. We’ll see where we are at seasons end. Anything top half and I will have to swallow my pride and give him more credit. At the minute I am where I am on him. 

 

 you are thick aren’t you? 
 

Am I not right in saying a month ago you were waxing lyrical about Mark Sykes abilities as a right wing back , yet only a week or so ago,  advocating deploying ..........Antoine ......as .......the right wing back..(wtf) ....

 

See that’s what I call odd.

 

It’s so much simpler from a comfy armchair - Personally I wouldn’t have persisted with Jay last night , and wouldn’t have left out Andi Weimann .........but he got both calls absolutely right and was fully vindicated 

 

PS - As for your would Johnson or Holden have been given the same latitude or understanding in the circumstances ...... who knows but I suspect some understanding of the difficulties , but there’s a difference between Pearson , LJ and Dean Holden

 

Credibility & experience

I think most who are behind Pearson  ( ‘Pearson Lovers’ apparently ) are , like me , are grateful for that in our current difficulties , and glean some trust in him from it 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Am I not right in saying a month ago you were waxing lyrical about Mark Sykes abilities as a right wing back , yet only a week or so ago,  advocating deploying ..........Antoine ......as .......the right wing back..(wtf) ....

 

See that’s what I call odd.

 

It’s so much simpler from a comfy armchair - Personally I wouldn’t have persisted with Jay last night , and wouldn’t have left out Andi Weimann .........but he got both calls absolutely right and was fully vindicated 

What is odd about putting your best wide player out wide? Sunderland had Jack Clarke at wingback against us. Not a defensive player by any means. Take the name off of it and just say want Semenyo there to take on their fullback time and time again. My opinion may be wrong on it but also said I’d drop Weimann for a traditional CM but we won’t mention that if it hurts the argument. 
 

And with Sykes his standards had dropped. Thought he was fantastic last night. He did get those calls right last night. That is my point. He has shown he can respond to a bad performance but hard to maintain good ones. This isn’t a wins and losses thing. It is how can we look awful against Millwall to looking excellent at West Brom and to how do we keep it at that level for Reading and beyond. We can lose 2-0 to Reading but if we generally play how we did last night I’d have no qualms. NP will often say we had too many players below the standard and for me that is on him. 

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Well I actually agree with the top 8 side. Perhaps why I am so critical. Have thought this was the season to go for it as next season there is bound to be lots of change. 

You’re taking a fair bit of stick on here Joe with your criticism. Is the 08 on your username the year you were born?

Just asking…………..

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

6 players is more than half the starting XI. His words are he won’t bring in for the sake of it. They improve the squad. The vast majority of our 18 are players he already had here.

it’s a squad game, not an 11 player game.  Those 6 were brought in for varying reasons and will have varying ability.  You know it’s not black and white, he hasn’t been able to bring in 6 top half Championship players, he’s compromising.  You can easily say that Wilson and Tanner are better than what he had (Simpson and Vyner at RB last season according to most on here), but they might still be worse players / lower calibre than other squad members.  Just shows the imbalance we had in the squad and how tight money is to get a top half Championship RB / RWB.  I’d love to know how much Nyambe is costing Wigan a week!
 

He has made odd decisions over his tenure like not playing Wells.

Nahki himself said he didn’t take his opportunities last season, and it’s hard to disagree with the output of WSM and the excitement it brought.  This season is very different, and Nahki is being picked on merit, just like he wasn’t last season.  You or I might think he should’ve got more opportunities, and maybe he should’ve…but because we would’ve done things differently, doesn’t necessarily make it odd / wrong.

Or deploying Weimann as a more conventional midfielder. Then we he drops Weimann and plays Wells we look better and then there is massive praise for him.

That’s a one game view.  Easy to pick and choose individual games / performances to prove an opinion.  Weimann has had a run of poorer form in terms of what he does with the ball / end product.  Nige was satisfied he was contributing in other ways, whether we can see it or not…that’s what he said.  He then leaves him out…as almost everyone wanted, and then that’s criticised???

 

All I am trying to get across is a balance. We win 2-0 away to West Brom and we forget a dreadful performance against Millwall.

I didn’t think it was dreadful at all.  Bitty?  Yep.  Lacking in quality at times?  Yep.  Undone by giving away needless set-pieces playing into Millwall’s hands?  Yep.  But lots of other stuff was of a more positive nature.

He has had ups and has had downs. I am keeping in perspective.

“Perspective” and “balance” is interesting. Where’s the perspective / balance in your view that acknowledges we were top 6 at one point, had an 8 game unbeaten run, were the league’s top scorers (we are again currently), playing nice football, etc.  Yours seems to focus on the negative bits - yet you state an up and down season.

We disagree on the amount of credit he gets for some things and that is fine. We’ll see where we are at seasons end. Anything top half and I will have to swallow my pride and give him more credit. At the minute I am where I am on him.

And that is fine.  At the minute - you are where you are on him (on the negative side) when currently we are in a position where if continued you’d have to swallow your pride.  Admittedly it’s only a one game position, can go up and down, but over the season so far we are averaging 12th - top half.

 

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Well I actually agree with the top 8 side. Perhaps why I am so critical. Have thought this was the season to go for it as next season there is bound to be lots of change. 

 

What the sports where there are salary caps so therefore you have to watch how you spend? But yea the american in me just wants to throw money at it  Then gets angry when his intelligence is questioned. As a regular on this forum, I am very well aware of our finances as are most on here. My problems aren’t how much we spent. It is the why are we not getting the most from what we have spent. 

I don’t care if he is here or not. I was very excited when we lured him here. Truth is, we are very much a very similar product on the pitch as to when he was appointed. We could have had me or you at the helm and the finances would be the same. Doubt when we were inevitably awful would the financial situation be our defence like it has been for NP. Ask yourself if it was Holden or Lee Johnson and everything the same would you be praising them like you are Pearson? I doubt it and that is my issue. He just happens to be the one that took over in our time of need. I am not giving credit for that. Credit for being honest and thoughtful? Yes. Credit for making the squad much more cohesive than we had seen in awhile? Yes. Plenty of credit to be dished out to him. Maybe my criticisms are harsh but they are mine. 

A) caps yes, but you know full well that these caps dwarf English championship football finances.  

B) You seriously believe that Johnson or Holden would have built this squad or a comparable one under the same massive constraints? Says it all…

And why do you have an issue that people praise Pearson for the work he is doing? If anything is ‘odd’ then getting pissed off about that is certainly right up there, especially as you claim to have no issue with him. 
 

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, JoeAman08 said:

What is odd about putting your best wide player out wide? Sunderland had Jack Clarke at wingback against us. Not a defensive player by any means. Take the name off of it and just say want Semenyo there to take on their fullback time and time again. My opinion may be wrong on it but also said I’d drop Weimann for a traditional CM but we won’t mention that if it hurts the argument. 
 

And with Sykes his standards had dropped. Thought he was fantastic last night. He did get those calls right last night. That is my point. He has shown he can respond to a bad performance but hard to maintain good ones. This isn’t a wins and losses thing. It is how can we look awful against Millwall to looking excellent at West Brom and to how do we keep it at that level for Reading and beyond. We can lose 2-0 to Reading but if we generally play how we did last night I’d have no qualms. NP will often say we had too many players below the standard and for me that is on him. 

Hang on , earlier you were criticising him , saying he chops and changes ....make your mind up

Players aren’t always consistent or in form.    #shocker  

As for your last line - If individuals aren’t in form , or performing in any given 90mins , or in several games running , in a system we’ve , and they’ve used , continually , how is that down to him ?

And what did you want him to do about those out of form or not performing ?

Blindly persist , or make changes ?
 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Have thought this was the season to go for it as next season there is bound to be lots of change. 

This was the season to NOT go for it….this season ends the cycle for FFP where we have our worst compliance position.  And we haven’t gone for it for that exact reason.  3 free transfers plus one for small compensation.  Not one team recruited less than us (Cov / Norwich 4 each too).

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, lenred said:

A) caps yes, but you know full well that these caps dwarf English championship football finances.  

B) You seriously believe that Johnson or Holden would have built this squad or a comparable one under the same massive constraints? Says it all…

And why do you have an issue that people praise Pearson for the work he is doing? If anything is ‘odd’ then getting pissed off about that is certainly right up there, especially as you claim to have no issue with him. 
 

Because they are comparable to the Premier League not the championship. There are still decisions you have to make for financial reason which you can’t really say for the top level of football. It is pretty simple either way. There is a limit on spending and once you get close you can’t spend more. 
 

Again, you have taken a comment and twisted it to something it is not. I said it it was Holden and Johnson and we were say 15th would you be saying they haven’t had money to spend so it is ok? I don’t think anyone would. 
 

I have no issue with praising NP. Go for it. All I ever said is I have enough questions that I am saving any praise for another day. Which should be a normal forum comment but on here you have to go with the popular opinion. Is what it is. 

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I am focusing on the negative because the thread was a praise thread. If it was a negative thread I might have pinpointed some positives(unlikely ) but yea just defending my thoughts on him. If I made a list of pros and cons on my feelings about NP the lists would probably be close to equal. I am undecided on him. Most are convinced. 

 

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This was the season to NOT go for it….this season ends the cycle for FFP where we have our worst compliance position.  And we haven’t gone for it for that exact reason.  3 free transfers plus one for small compensation.  Not one team recruited less than us (Cov / Norwich 4 each too).

No not go for it as in spend money. Go for it as the squad will likely be worse off next summer. 

 

11 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Hang on , earlier you were criticising him , saying he chops and changes ....make your mind up

Players aren’t always consistent or in form.    #shocker  

As for your last line - If individuals aren’t in form , or performing in any given 90mins , or in several games running , in a system we’ve , and they’ve used , continually , how is that down to him ?

And what did you want him to do about those out of form or not performing ?

Blindly persist , or make changes ?
 

Idk it seems as if he’ll blindly persist with some and change others after one subpar performance. I have said chop and change probably wrong term. I don’t think he is solving the problems in the right way. 
 

For example, Brum away. It was predictable. He needed to use King in an emergency against Coventry. Ok fair enough and it worked out. It should have been a one off but he put him out there again and we got humbled. Then for the next game he made 4 changes when it was probably as simple as bringing Klose in. Then we are poor against Millwall and there are more changes. So what was it? Why was it good enough for Preston but not Millwall? Why not just say it is a bad day at the office and give them another go?
 

You can’t play the same lot for 46 games I get that but there does not seem to be any formula to it. You can see a Sykes Dasilva or Weimann be off it for 4-5 games in a row and play again. Then you can see a Wells or Conway off it for a half and they are hooked. This team that played last night, I’d like to see them pretty much unchanged for a bit to see if they can grow into it more. Not 3 changes if it is a loss on Saturday. I don’t see how you can get any cohesion when you are in and out.

[Rob k]

3 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Look at the whole of the Championship, there isn't one consistent team amongst them.

If anyone was remotely consistent they'd be breezing this division, anyone can beat anyone. We got picked apart by QPR, they got beat by Luton, we beat Luton with ten men for almost half an hour and deservedly so.

Bipolar fanbase, bipolar Bristol City performances in a bipolar division. 

Plenty of ups and downs, wouldn't be football if it was all plain-sailing and easy.

 

I read last night probably on here somewhere that the bottom team (Coventry) have lost less games than the team coming top (blackburn)  this season 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

We got picked apart by QPR, they got beat by Luton, we beat Luton with ten men for almost half an hour and deservedly so.

Yet worth remembering just how good we were v Luton 1st half in particular and after a little bit of retrenchment, again 11 v 11 2nd half.

While QPR picked us apart, we gave Luton a bit of a chasing until the red for Sykes and the unpunished foul on Sykes or unpunished red for Freeman.- a Luton who have beaten QPR and Blackburn so far. Complete performance in many ways until Sykes sent off.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Sheltons Army]

9 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

You can’t play the same lot for 46 games I get that but there does not seem to be any formula to it. You can see a Sykes Dasilva or Weimann be off it for 4-5 games in a row and play again. Then you can see a Wells or Conway off it for a half and they are hooked. This team that played last night, I’d like to see them pretty much unchanged for a bit to see if they can grow into it more. Not 3 changes if it is a loss on Saturday. I don’t see how you can get any cohesion when you are in and out.

But we don’t know the reasons , other than obvious reasons like injury 

Pearson explained the other day , although it went largely unnoticed , how different players need treating differently / individually in terms of loss of form 

He used Weimann as an example saying that he is one who needs to play to try and regain it - he’s done that , and eventually decided a change is needed

He will also have persisted with him because as he highlighted , even off form AW will give you commitment and energy, he will give you something , where others , struggle to contribute if off form

I said I wouldn’t have persisted with Jay last night but maybe he’s another one who needs to keep playing 
 

He clearly is not keen to start Pring or Tanner , which to many , including me may seem a bit baffling - but you can be sure he will have his reasons

Im not suggesting whether he is or not , but maybe Nahki is one who occasionally needs ‘challenging’ regularly , or fired up with a point to prove , to get the best out of him

Again , only as an example , without any slur or knowledge , Maybe Tommy was getting a bit too confident of his place and standing 

So many things will influence his selections

I don’t always agree with his choices , but I do trust him to have made them with thought and for what he believes are the right reasons 

 

[JoeAman08]

26 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You quote Preston and Luton and you are right on one level , that is how our future will look like , plus add in youth development. Where I don’t agree is that they have been doing this for years . We have not . We have had to halve a wage bill and are still paying out a quarter or more of our playing budget on 4 players due to the historic situation that is not worth going over again . When finally we can clear space in our budget to recruit a squad with more evenly and realistic  wages for the revised reality , we can then see progress . He has had resources in terms of wage bill yes , but has not had much flexibility in how that has been spent . it was pre spent on existing contracts . Next season is the start of the comprehensive reset of the overall squad , and it will follow a similar approach to Preston and Luton .  the club will be in a far better health and potentially on the right road again . I do agree that next summer , if Pearson is involved in that reshape he should commit to seeing the new phase through . Or it could be time for a change . We would not be the basket case of the last few years and could attract people that have run a mile these last years . But generally I am  underwhelmed by the quality of candidates that come up every time we search for a new coach and I much prefer the connected up one club approach that is being created by Pearson . 

However , even that means nothing if recruitment is not up to it and there are enough questions still to ask  in that direction as some good posters have commented on. This concerns me far more than a discussion about Pearson . He himself has stated on multiple occasions this is the key area ( maybe obvious ) of any successful club . It is the one off the field area we have seen the least obvious upgrade . 

 

 

Great post. Love the point about Preston and Luton and something to think about as they have been doing it at that level far longer than we have. I think we can do what they do but better as SL is willing to use all of the FFP room. Does not mean we have to or should but should mean we can get more first choice players than they do. 
 

I do feel that by season’s end we need to figure out our future with NP either way. This summer is another to build and we will have more resources to sign players. This does not necessarily mean transfer fees but we will need to either resign quite a few OOC or sign replacements. So if the club is fully behind Pearson we can’t let him go into next season with just that year left on his deal. Think it maybe leaves the club in limbo to an extent. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

50 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I do feel that by season’s end we need to figure out our future with NP either way. This summer is another to build and we will have more resources to sign players. This does not necessarily mean transfer fees but we will need to either resign quite a few OOC or sign replacements. So if the club is fully behind Pearson we can’t let him go into next season with just that year left on his deal. Think it maybe leaves the club in limbo to an extent. 

What you're basically suggesting is that short of relegation or a catastrophic slide...

"Hey NP!

"You kept us up twice, arguably thrice if we include the last few months of 2020-21, and how serious a risk relegation was- a matter of debate that bit.

"You cut significantly the wage and amortisation bill while so doing.

"While season on season, the style of play improved and in some cases so did the baseline performance numbers.

"While blooding youth, which helped us both in the present and potentially the future, either on field or with major fees to reinvest.

"Vyner, DaSilva, Wells all got a fresh lease of life under your tenure and Weimann had a dream season when deployed correctly!

"Now we have some money to spend...yeah someone else can spend it despite a number of good signings under huge constraints on your part!"

Okay I'm simplifying and exaggerating a bit but if he fulfils that remit as he seems on course to, then he truly deserves a chance under easier conditions! More pressure of course but he would know it. In fact he'd probably welcome it!

Edited October 19, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

But we don’t know the reasons , other than obvious reasons like injury 

Pearson explained the other day , although it went largely unnoticed , how different players need treating differently / individually in terms of loss of form 

He used Weimann as an example saying that he is one who needs to play to try and regain it - he’s done that , and eventually decided a change is needed

He will also have persisted with him because as he highlighted , even off form AW will give you commitment and energy, he will give you something , where others , struggle to contribute if off form

I said I wouldn’t have persisted with Jay last night but maybe he’s another one who needs to keep playing 
 

He clearly is not keen to start Pring or Tanner , which to many , including me may seem a bit baffling - but you can be sure he will have his reasons

Im not suggesting whether he is or not , but maybe Nahki is one who occasionally needs ‘challenging’ regularly , or fired up with a point to prove , to get the best out of him

Again , only as an example , without any slur or knowledge , Maybe Tommy was getting a bit too confident of his place and standing 

So many things will influence his selections

I don’t always agree with his choices , but I do trust him to have made them with thought and for what he believes are the right reasons 

 

Here speaketh someone with experience of the professional game.

48 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What you're basically suggesting is that short of relegation or a catastrophic slide...

"Hey NP!

"You kept us up twice, arguably thrice if we include the last few months of 2020-21, and how serious a risk relegation was- a matter of debate that bit.

"You cut significantly the wage and amortisation bill while so doing.

"While season on season, the style of play improved and in some cases so did the baseline performance numbers.

"While blooding youth, which helped us both in the present and potentially the future, either on field or with major fees to reinvest.

"Vyner, DaSilva, Wells all got a fresh lease of life under your tenure and Weimann had a dream season when deployed correctly!

"Now we have some money to spend...yeah someone else can spend it despite a number of good signings under huge constraints on your part!"

Okay I'm simplifying and exaggerating a bit but if he fulfils that remit as he seems on course to, then he truly deserves a chance under easier conditions! More pressure of course but he would know it. In fact he'd probably welcome it!

Nice one Mr P.  This was exactly my response to a recent FBC pod where they were asked would they trust Nige to spend the Scott and Semenyo money.  The pod response was pretty much no.  My response was pretty much identical to yours.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Here speaketh someone with experience of the professional game.

Nice one Mr P.  This was exactly my response to a recent FBC pod where they were asked would they trust Nige to spend the Scott and Semenyo money.  The pod response was pretty much no.  My response was pretty much identical to yours.

The question for me is does Nige want to carry on?

He’s had Covid twice and is approaching 60, maybe he wants to retire, he’s already said there are aspects of the game he doesn’t like, agents, refs etc.

 

 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

The question for me is does Nige want to carry on?

He’s had Covid twice and is approaching 60, maybe he wants to retire, he’s already said there are aspects of the game he doesn’t like, agents, refs etc.

 

 

I guess that’s a different question and answer.  I’ve often said I see him handing over the reins / reigns / rains and someone else being the one to take us up.

[red colin]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Because they are comparable to the Premier League not the championship. There are still decisions you have to make for financial reason which you can’t really say for the top level of football. It is pretty simple either way. There is a limit on spending and once you get close you can’t spend more. 
 

Again, you have taken a comment and twisted it to something it is not. I said it it was Holden and Johnson and we were say 15th would you be saying they haven’t had money to spend so it is ok? I don’t think anyone would. 
 

I have no issue with praising NP. Go for it. All I ever said is I have enough questions that I am saving any praise for another day. Which should be a normal forum comment but on here you have to go with the popular opinion. Is what it is. 

I am focusing on the negative because the thread was a praise thread. If it was a negative thread I might have pinpointed some positives(unlikely ) but yea just defending my thoughts on him. If I made a list of pros and cons on my feelings about NP the lists would probably be close to equal. I am undecided on him. Most are convinced. 

 

No not go for it as in spend money. Go for it as the squad will likely be worse off next summer. 

 

Idk it seems as if he’ll blindly persist with some and change others after one subpar performance. I have said chop and change probably wrong term. I don’t think he is solving the problems in the right way. 
 

For example, Brum away. It was predictable. He needed to use King in an emergency against Coventry. Ok fair enough and it worked out. It should have been a one off but he put him out there again and we got humbled. Then for the next game he made 4 changes when it was probably as simple as bringing Klose in. Then we are poor against Millwall and there are more changes. So what was it? Why was it good enough for Preston but not Millwall? Why not just say it is a bad day at the office and give them another go?
 

You can’t play the same lot for 46 games I get that but there does not seem to be any formula to it. You can see a Sykes Dasilva or Weimann be off it for 4-5 games in a row and play again. Then you can see a Wells or Conway off it for a half and they are hooked. This team that played last night, I’d like to see them pretty much unchanged for a bit to see if they can grow into it more. Not 3 changes if it is a loss on Saturday. I don’t see how you can get any cohesion when you are in and out.

agree with a lot of your points