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BUTOR

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BUTOR

BUTOR

Posted
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Really, bizarrely, embarrassingly bad yesterday. Passive. To the point where it was awkward. What is happening? We would never allow ourselves to get outsung to such a blatant extent by rivals in the past, and I’m talking 5 years ago not 20. Something has changed and I’m not exactly sure what it is. 

But what can we do about it? Push the club into extending S82? **** off the club and start a fan led movement to another block in the ground, nearer the away end? Is anyone actually arsed enough to make it happen? It’s such an easy place for away teams to come right now. And I don’t buy that it’s ‘the same at every Championship ground’ because even ******* Reading were louder than the Gate last weekend. I haven’t been anywhere as quiet this season and most grounds have actually made a bit of noise. We need to get on top of it, surely we’d all rather be in an engaging and noisy space than a dull and lifeless one.

Edited by Bouncearoundtheground
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Rob k

Rob k

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

Really, bizarrely, embarrassingly bad yesterday. Passive. To the point where it was awkward. What is happening? We would never allow ourselves to get outsung to such a blatant extent by rivals in the past, and I’m talking 5 years ago not 20. Something has changed and I’m not exactly sure what it is. 

But what can we do about it? Push the club into extending S82? **** off the club and start a fan led movement to another block in the ground, nearer the away end? Is anyone actually arsed enough to make it happen? It’s such an easy place for away teams to come right now. And I don’t buy that it’s ‘the same at every Championship ground’ because even ******* Reading were louder than the Gate last weekend. I haven’t been anywhere as quiet this season and most grounds have actually made a bit of noise. We need to get on top of it, surely we’d all rather be in an engaging and noisy space than a dull and lifeless one.

Just seems like all the fight and life has drained out of the fan base post covid for whatever reason and that is a little sad.  

Move s82 to A block Dolman - job done. 

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redkev

redkev

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Nearly Every home teams fans say the same , it’s just how it is away fans are nearly always more vocal than home fans unless the home team are 2 or 3 goals to the good .

out will come 

is this a library & where’s your famous atmosphere blah blah blah 

don’t think we are any better or any worse than the majority of other teams 

 

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Bris Red

Bris Red

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8 hours ago, Rob k said:

Move s82 to A block Dolman - job done. 

This would certainly improve the situation. Club don’t want it though. Too much hassle to police/steward it, much easier to stick our vocal fans away at the opposite end of the stadium.

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GrahamC

GrahamC

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44 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

What time did the game kick off for Swansea then..? It didn't seem to bother their supporters. 

Pretty standard for away fans, all congregated together in one place in those sort of numbers, to be vocal.

Just like us at West Brom.

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Harry

Harry

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At recent Anglo-Welsh derbies there seem to have been more of our ‘vocal’ element in Dolman A block next to the away fans. Yesterday there weren’t nearly as many as usual in that area. It also looked as if S82 was a bit more empty than usual too. 
It did mean it was a bit subdued yesterday. 

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Robbored

Robbored

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, redkev said:

Nearly Every home teams fans say the same , it’s just how it is away fans are nearly always more vocal than home fans unless the home team are 2 or 3 goals to the good .

out will come 

is this a library & where’s your famous atmosphere blah blah blah 

don’t think we are any better or any worse than the majority of other teams 

 

This topic comes up regularly and various remedies are suggested but ultimately it’s down to the positing of the way and hoe fans.

The police want to keep visiting fans congregated in one part of the stadium - the Atyeo which provides easy access to Ashton Rd and exiting. 

The acoustics in the Atyeo are excellent where a small number can create quite a din with sound deflecting off the roof out onto the pitch.

It’s not the same in the SS where most sound created dissipates upwards and the away fans can’t hardly them - hence the chants of “is this a library?”

Unfortunatey there’s nothing much that can be done to improve things.

 

Edited by Robbored
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

The acoustics in the Atyeo are excellent where a small number can create quite a din with sound deflecting off the roof out onto the pitch.

It’s not the same in the SS where most sound created dissipates upwards and the away fans can’t hardly them - hence the chants of “is this a library?”

While I agree with a lot of this post Robbored, I'm still unconvinced by the argument that the Atyeo has excellent acoustics. It's pedantic and I think they are probably the best in the ground in the modernised form but I doubt that they are excellent in their own right.

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Sleepy1968

Sleepy1968

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54 minutes ago, Robbored said:

This topic comes up regularly and various remedies are suggested but ultimately it’s down to the positing of the way and hoe fans.

The police want to keep visiting fans congregated in one part of the stadium - the Atyeo which provides easy access to Ashton Rd and exiting. 

The acoustics in the Atyeo are excellent where a small number can create quite a din with sound deflecting off the roof out onto the pitch.

It’s not the same in the SS where most sound created dissipates upwards and the away fans can’t hardly them - hence the chants of “is this a library?”

Unfortunatey there’s nothing much that can be done to improve things.

 

You'd have hoped that acoustics would have been a major factor when the stands were designed, but I guess not. However if people aren't making any noise, the design of the roof is mute. But none of this was an issue when we played Manchester United. Participation is key, but lots of people aren't motivated enough to involve themselves most of the time: if they stop looking at their phones, its only to wave them in the air with the flashlight on.

Also the timing of the kick off and the dull way the opposition played didn't help yesterday.

PS I can't really tell from your post whether you're a hoe fan or not, but given recent disagreements on the forum, I'm not going to come down on either side of that particularly thorny fence.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
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23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought Swansea fans were pretty quiet.

I'm somewhat equidistant or was Saturday between the two, can really depend where people sit as to how sound travels in the ground (middle of Dolman), thought they were reasonable at times albeit nothing amazing. Thought some of ours were okay at times but again nothing amazing.

That's the other thing, I don't know why it is- perhaps the same everywhere, perhaps since the redevelopment but sound doesn't seem to travel so well within the ground!

I remember reading on here after our first game back v Brentford in 2015, post Dolman and South Stand redevelopment some Brentford fan said they could see we were clearly signing ie when the Singing Section was in the Atyeo but that they couldn't hear much! This was the same stand so can imagine how it is elsewhere.

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

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2 hours ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

Then they will moan that they can't stand up. 

And that it costs more. And that it takes so long to get out of the stand, they can't knock back 3 pints at half time, and that they aren't in their rightful home (which, depending on your age could be pretty much anywhere in the stadium), and that. And that. And that. And that.

Reality is, situation isn't gonna change, s82 have made the best of where they are. Yesterday most people were probably several pints light on where they usually are because it was an early kick off, and whilst I'm sure it won't be long until someone suggests that the remodel the stadium to keep a small section of supporters happy, there is nothing stopping anyone from having a sing if they want one, regardless of where they are.

Everyone enjoys a slightly different match day experience, most people are catered for.

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maxjak

maxjak

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3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm somewhat equidistant or was Saturday between the two, can really depend where people sit as to how sound travels in the ground (middle of Dolman), thought they were reasonable at times albeit nothing amazing. Thought some of ours were okay at times but again nothing amazing.

That's the other thing, I don't know why it is- perhaps the same everywhere, perhaps since the redevelopment but sound doesn't seem to travel so well within the ground!

I remember reading on here after our first game back v Brentford in 2015, post Dolman and South Stand redevelopment some Brentford fan said they could see we were clearly signing ie when the Singing Section was in the Atyeo but that they couldn't hear much! This was the same stand so can imagine how it is elsewhere.

You would have thought that someone, possibly an expert on acoustics and sound design could have advised the club on the optimum part of the stadium to amplify sound to it's utmost?     Or be consulted on how to create an area of the ground where the correct design could be adopted to project the loudest sound towards the pitch?      I know, I know............when you cannot even fix the PA to function to a level where people can hear announcements............then what are the Pheckin chances.....Ha!!

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You would have thought that someone, possibly an expert on acoustics and sound design could have advised the club on the optimum part of the stadium to amplify sound to it's utmost?     Or be consulted on how to create an area of the ground where the correct design could be adopted to project the loudest sound towards the pitch?      I know, I know............when you cannot even fix the PA to function to a level where people can hear announcements............then what are the Pheckin chances.....Ha!!

Strange fact but modern stand and stadia design for whatever reason, certainly here but maybe everywhere seemingly are not so good for acoustics. Maybe it's a myth but I am sure I also saw it on here.

Don't disagree with your post though but I reckon if you took 10 older stands and 10 new builds, more of the former would retain, project whatever sound better.

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Puckle_red

Puckle_red

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It was a dour atmosphere yesterday other than first 10 of each half. Swansea weren't great either, about 200 singing for first 20 and when they equalised. 

I noticed our fans were very quiet at Reading last week, and more and more so recently. Blackpool away last season was the same, turned up in numbers, most stood, most silent. 

People outside of the South Stand/Dolman corner may be surprised to hear there are variable dynamics within a relatively small space, its not one unit. Youngsters seem obsessed with singing about Joey Barton, olders don't seem to like anything with more than 4 words in it, others just want to be Crystal Palace and everyone inbetween seems to be waiting for it to happen (including myself to be fair). It lacks any togetherness or anything decent and new. 

It'll come back around again, it always does, just needs a bit of sustained, relative success. E.g. A playoff push or cup run. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Why the answer always where the fans sit? They get moved and it doesn’t improve. The answer is more fans need to sing if we want a good atmosphere. 

Ultimately this.

However it can feed off each orher, away and home fans in close proximity. Might help things.

@Rob k By Block A, are you talking upper, lower or all of E34?

Only reason I ask is because only upper E34 is technically block A as was, lower was Block H.

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And Its Smith

And Its Smith

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20 minutes ago, OliOTIB said:

Perhaps making S24 a standing section? Dont believe it would block the view of any in 23/22/21 etc.

We have a singing section. Doesn’t matter where it is. The more people that sing, the better the atmosphere. Better songs might help songs spread around the stadium.  But ultimately this is football now in the main. Pretty much every ground has a poor atmosphere   

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cheddarwedlocker

cheddarwedlocker

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2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

We have a singing section. Doesn’t matter where it is. The more people that sing, the better the atmosphere. Better songs might help songs spread around the stadium.  But ultimately this is football now in the main. Pretty much every ground has a poor atmosphere   

Very true, do remember when the Massengo one was first used in August 19 and it was so loud. Same with the scott one last year when it was first sung. Need a refresh of some of the older ones such as Weimanns and need one for Atkinson, Naismith, and a much better one for Conway.

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Super

Super

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8 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I guess, but I’d assume those so inclined will just start earlier?

Cardiff was a decent atmosphere for an early kick off, I really don’t think the time is important.

Not sure you can start that early unless you are hard-core! I prefer a morning coffee ? 

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Winterstoke toad

Winterstoke toad

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All due to poor ground layout and having the most expensive pay on the day in the league means your more likely to get well to do types in .

Going back to ground layout our fans being stuck in a small corner is poor thinking from the club , an example of this is Cardiff away , our fans were singing their hearts out but being sat on the half way line I could barely here our fans but the Cardiff city fans in the canton end were very audible.

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Tin Soldier

Tin Soldier

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FACT The original Dolman stand was there in the 80s/90s - when the atmosphere was rocking in the dolman.
The Park End was open air with no roof and that was rocking. The old enclosure was open air and that was rocking most games. So stories about the new ground having no atmosphere is bollox v what we used to have as a ground in the 80s and 90s IMO.
Sad fact is most City fans turn up and look at the phone for 90 minutes rather than watch the game and get behind the team. Another sad fact is that Bristol has very little passion for football v other parts of the country. All feels very plastic to me nowadays. Don’t really enjoy the home games nowadays, but hey, that’s progress?

 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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2 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

FACT The original Dolman stand was there in the 80s/90s - when the atmosphere was rocking in the dolman.
The Park End was open air with no roof and that was rocking. The old enclosure was open air and that was rocking most games. So stories about the new ground having no atmosphere is bollox v what we used to have as a ground in the 80s and 90s IMO.
Sad fact is most City fans turn up and look at the phone for 90 minutes rather than watch the game and get behind the team. Another sad fact is that Bristol has very little passion for football v other parts of the country. All feels very plastic to me nowadays. Don’t really enjoy the home games nowadays, but hey, that’s progress?

 

Some of that feels City specific, some of that just society and football gentrification in general.

For us younger fans, Park End was behind goal was it? Trying to visualise a layout...when did Dolman become what it is today? I don't mean 2015 but A-G at the top, H-N at the bottom. Sounds like some of what you posted predates that.

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

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10 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

FACT The original Dolman stand was there in the 80s/90s - when the atmosphere was rocking in the dolman.
The Park End was open air with no roof and that was rocking. The old enclosure was open air and that was rocking most games. So stories about the new ground having no atmosphere is bollox v what we used to have as a ground in the 80s and 90s IMO.
Sad fact is most City fans turn up and look at the phone for 90 minutes rather than watch the game and get behind the team. Another sad fact is that Bristol has very little passion for football v other parts of the country. All feels very plastic to me nowadays. Don’t really enjoy the home games nowadays, but hey, that’s progress?

 

This. 

Block B used to be lively. Open end used to be lively. East End used to be lively. 

People don't sing anymore (like they did) because football has changed from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s etc.

Reality is, those moaning are trying to recreate a sterilised version of something that might, once have been there. Generally if you want something similar to days of old, you'd have to go to an away game.

Oh well, hats off to those who try and improve the atmosphere, the rest of the people are probably wondering if their 35 quid spend would have been better off dropped getting tickets for the RSC or some other event.

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Tin Soldier

Tin Soldier

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8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

This. 

Block B used to be lively. Open end used to be lively. East End used to be lively. 

People don't sing anymore (like they did) because football has changed from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s etc.

Reality is, those moaning are trying to recreate a sterilised version of something that might, once have been there. Generally if you want something similar to days of old, you'd have to go to an away game.

Oh well, hats off to those who try and improve the atmosphere, the rest of the people are probably wondering if their 35 quid spend would have been better off dropped getting tickets for the RSC or some other event.

Agreed. Actually feel a bit sorry for the football fans of today’s era because you will never recreate the AG atmosphere of bygone years IMO. The whole day out at the football has changed. Real shame, but really glad I was there in the 80s and 90s. They were great days.

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BUTOR

BUTOR

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52 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

Anyone give 2 ####s about those couple of hundred longstanding season ticket holders currently located in block A?

Just kick them out, move in the singing crowd and drop the prices by a tenner?

Bit harsh???

I'm one of them, and wouldn't be against it. Most of the old faces have started to relocate or stopped attending now. A lot of the time the student paper ticket brigade rock up there (cheapest seats in the stand) and irritate the life out of myself and others around me. On occasions its still lively and harks back but those occasions are few and far between. Get the dynamic back between vocal support and away fans I say. S82 demographic isn't exactly the Eastend of old and I doubt there'd be more trouble. And what ******* trouble? Nothing ever happens. 

If such a move were to be made it would have to be done independently through fans, club aren't interested. Would shut S82 down if they could. Jon has tried. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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6 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If such a move were to be made it would have to be done independently through fans

Back to the future a bit then.

In mid 2000's, perhaps a bit earlier I remember though wasn't among them, a group of fans moved across from place to place.

Dolman G block, then somewhere (I forget where but a Block of the Williams close to the East End, the furthest one along).

Subbers I think it was?

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Barrs Court Red

Barrs Court Red

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3 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I'm one of them, and wouldn't be against it. Most of the old faces have started to relocate or stopped attending now. A lot of the time the student paper ticket brigade rock up there (cheapest seats in the stand) and irritate the life out of myself and others around me. On occasions its still lively and harks back but those occasions are few and far between. Get the dynamic back between vocal support and away fans I say. S82 demographic isn't exactly the Eastend of old and I doubt there'd be more trouble. And what ******* trouble? Nothing ever happens. 

If such a move were to be made it would have to be done independently through fans, club aren't interested. Would shut S82 down if they could. Jon has tried. 

It’s been done in the past and worked out well (Williams Corner). 

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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

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9 hours ago, Robbored said:

 

The acoustics in the Atyeo are excellent where a small number can create quite a din with sound deflecting off the roof out onto the pitch.

 

This is such utter nonsense - not from you, but from everyone who uses this argument. 

When the Atyeo was the home end, people used to complain that the acciustics were rubbish..! 

What about the "good old days" what atmospheres were supposedly better... Did all this open terraced have good acoustics...?! 

If people sing & shout, it makes noise, end of. 

Of course acciustics can be improved upon by stadium design - but it's a simple case of making noise, generates noise. 

 

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Robbored

Robbored

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3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

This is such utter nonsense - not from you, but from everyone who uses this argument. 

When the Atyeo was the home end, people used to complain that the acciustics were rubbish..! 

What about the "good old days" what atmospheres were supposedly better... Did all this open terraced have good acoustics...?! 

If people sing & shout, it makes noise, end of. 

Of course acciustics can be improved upon by stadium design - but it's a simple case of making noise, generates noise. 

 

Why do you suppose that the Wedlocks, East End, covered end call it what you like was so atmospheric? 
It was the acoustics caused by the  salient and low roof that propelled sound out onto the pitch.

The away fans in the open could hardly be heard because the sound dissipated upwards.

Acustics make a huge difference.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

When the Atyeo was the home end, people used to complain that the acciustics were rubbish..! 

I think they were and are neither rubbish or brilliant. At the same time, usually away fans as a percentage probably have more standers, singers- it can be more concentrated especially for a derby game!

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

If people sing & shout, it makes noise, end of. 

Agreed. Although you'll only really hear it all over if there are pockets of noise all around the ground. Sound doesn't travel so well between stands IMO.

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Of course acciustics can be improved upon by stadium design - but it's a simple case of making noise, generates noise.

Agreed to a point, how well it spreads or can be heard is more variable though. The noisier the fans though,  the noisier the atmosphere as a starting point.

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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

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4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Why do you suppose that the Wedlocks, East End, covered end call it what you like was so atmospheric? 
It was the acoustics caused by the  salient and low roof that propelled sound out onto the pitch.

The away fans in the open could hardly be heard because the sound dissipated upwards.

Acustics make a huge difference.

One of the most notorious stadiums in English football for intimidating & hostile atmosphere - acoustic design or because people made noise...? 

 

Screenshot_20221030_190435.thumb.jpg.54d731c25a2127b2a3536870cc59695a.jpg

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Red Skin

Red Skin

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Why the answer always where the fans sit? They get moved and it doesn’t improve. The answer is more fans need to sing if we want a good atmosphere. 

Think it was a mistake to have a 'singing section'.  If these fans were spread around the stands there'd be more chance of getting others around them singing.  We never needed one in the past.  

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Winterstoke toad

Winterstoke toad

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25 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

This is such utter nonsense - not from you, but from everyone who uses this argument. 

When the Atyeo was the home end, people used to complain that the acciustics were rubbish..! 

What about the "good old days" what atmospheres were supposedly better... Did all this open terraced have good acoustics...?! 

If people sing & shout, it makes noise, end of. 

Of course acciustics can be improved upon by stadium design - but it's a simple case of making noise, generates noise. 

 

When section 82 was in the atyeo it was only a poxy small section of it so it can’t be compared to away fans having the whole stand .

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Rob k

Rob k

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Why the answer always where the fans sit? They get moved and it doesn’t improve. The answer is more fans need to sing if we want a good atmosphere. 

The Best atmospheres I’ve been too at other grounds in recent seasons was Coventry and Birmingham, both sets of fans are close to the away fans. There is also a reason why atmospheres at City are generally better v Gas, Milwall, Leeds etc,rather than Wigan, reading or Rotherham.  if i had my way I’d give the whole of the Atyeo to away fans too to help. 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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4 minutes ago, Rob k said:

The Best atmospheres I’ve been too at other grounds in recent seasons was Coventry and Birmingham, both sets of fans are close to the away fans. There is also a reason why atmospheres at City are generally better v Gas, Milwall, Leeds etc,rather than Wigan, reading or Rotherham.  if i had my way I’d give the whole of the Atyeo to away fans too to help. 

Cov fabs were awesome at AG last season, sang loud all game.  This season not so much.

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Tin Soldier

Tin Soldier

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31 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

One of the most notorious stadiums in English football for intimidating & hostile atmosphere - acoustic design or because people made noise...? 

 

Screenshot_20221030_190435.thumb.jpg.54d731c25a2127b2a3536870cc59695a.jpg

Precisely, went there a few times with City, and that ground rocked with 10,000 in it. Acoustics, design of the ground - nonsense. Just make some noise.

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Cowshed

Cowshed

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1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

One of the most notorious stadiums in English football for intimidating & hostile atmosphere - acoustic design or because people made noise...? 

 

Screenshot_20221030_190435.thumb.jpg.54d731c25a2127b2a3536870cc59695a.jpg

You have highlighted a ground where acoustics at the rears of stand were great. Great to be in as small crowds congregated at the rear sounded loud for the numbers. It was a unusual stadium as Millwalls fans would walk around 3/4 of it and change ends. The 2-2 when Aizelwood scored, and Millwalls firm ambushed City at London bridge under escort was so noisy because the majority of the gate (4-5 thousand) was in one end under the same low roof alongside 350-400 hardcore City fans on a mid week night.

 

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RedLionLad

RedLionLad

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2 hours ago, Tin Soldier said:

Agreed. Actually feel a bit sorry for the football fans of today’s era because you will never recreate the AG atmosphere of bygone years IMO. The whole day out at the football has changed. Real shame, but really glad I was there in the 80s and 90s. They were great days.

You missed the best decade, they were greater.

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The turtle

The turtle

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11 hours ago, redkev said:

Nearly Every home teams fans say the same , it’s just how it is away fans are nearly always more vocal than home fans unless the home team are 2 or 3 goals to the good .

out will come 

is this a library & where’s your famous atmosphere blah blah blah 

don’t think we are any better or any worse than the majority of other teams 

 

Stoke, the game when so close to promotion to the prem. Probably the only time I've heard genuinely genuinely loud home fans.

I was massively taken aback at the time, like wow that's loud.

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The turtle

The turtle

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

While I agree with a lot of this post Robbored, I'm still unconvinced by the argument that the Atyeo has excellent acoustics. It's pedantic and I think they are probably the best in the ground in the modernised form but I doubt that they are excellent in their own right.

Before the new rebuilt. It was considered a death trap for atmosphere.

Due to typical wind direction , and the fact it holds nothing in 

It's funny it's now seen as an atmosphere mecca.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Red Skin said:

Think it was a mistake to have a 'singing section'.  If these fans were spread around the stands there'd be more chance of getting others around them singing.  We never needed one in the past.  

Hard to say because you need that focal point think the East End was that and though I don't remember the hold days, I remember it until 2014, perhaps from early 2000's.

Otoh, pre this you had, talking late 1990s to sometime in 2000's:

Atyeo H Block

Dolman B AND A

Latterly, Subbers moved into Dolman G, plus later to that part of the Williams although dunno if it detracted from Dolman A and B and Atyeo H.

Likewise did reopwinf the East End to home fans, albeit shared with away fans detract from Atyeo H, Dolman A and B, or even the latter Subbers in Dolman G or the end of the Williams.

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