Here he is. The Messiah is to blame

[BTRFTG]

15 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@BTRFTG I guess you’re in the “there’s none so blind camp”…..

Me? Season ticket payments for more years than I can remember. For several of us.

Oh and shares. From 1982. When Steve and his mate Pete were planning how they’d make billions in their bedrooms….. When Steve didn’t see the merits of putting his money in…..

Ha I hear you say. **** all then….

As a proportion of wealth and income? Don’t know…..

But hey. If you’re happy with the decisions that The Messiah has made and the week in, week out inconsistent shit show then carry on.

I expect more. Steve’s only interest is Steve.

How do you see his “investment”? A success?

 

Ok, calculate that **** all. Its important as contracts and bills aren't paid with goodwill nor percentage of disposable income.

I could compound up all my 'coppers' admittances since 65 and STs thereafter, the 1/15th of my annual student income in share investment to keep them going, the pies and beers I've consumed over the years and do you know what? It wouldn't cover one week's wages for Kalas.

I'm uncertain from where your assumptions derive, save they're all flawed? In 82 SL was still sitting around a kitchen table getting the nascent HL off the ground, so uncertain what monies he might have had to invest? As for my thinking SL is some type of Messiah I certainly don't and never have, certainly not since he refused to answer my shareholder question re the funding of Tony Pulis' High Court action. You assume I think his investment a success. Well, in respect of the fact the club still exist, that it has use of safe and high quality training and playing facilities, that development of women's and community diverse football related activities are up there with the best (where once there were none,) that there's a vision of attempting to make Bristol an attractive sporting destination - yes, they're all successes of which SL should be proud.

But I'm a realist. We were mid table second tier when started in 65, pretty much where we are now. In the interim we've had 4 years in the top flight but plenty in leagues lower. I'd argue we're today in our rightful place in the pyramid. The fact we aren't higher - i don't think SL has anything to be proud or ashamed of in that respect.

[BigAl&Toby]

31 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Non-falsifible, nugatory statement so expand and explain as to how you think City might have been run, with or without SL?

@BTRFTG in one word?

Better.

But hey if you’re happy with where we are, the Lansdown’s involvement and what he now has and BCFC doesn’t then ok.

I’m not. Never have been. He’s little if any interest in BCFC or sport generally. Apart from how it will further his ambitions and how he’s viewed by his adoring “support”.

And of course how much more he’ll eventually gain. From his investment. I suspect he’s been well advised by his Merchant Venturers……

How much do you think his freeholds in BS3 are worth now…….

[BTRFTG]

12 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

that mob of jokers who took over in the early 80s, Scott Davison

Great point. Did SL supposedly ever play keyboards in some long-forgotten, one-hit-wonder pop band in which only fans of Popmaster might hold an interest? No and for that lack of charisma alone he's a failure and should go.....

[Red-Robbo]

12 minutes ago, phantom said:

It wasn't a literal example, just a direction of that many of us make a bigger commitment financially from what we have available to us

 

I know Phants. But now I'm chuckling at the thought of some bloke sitting in the executive lounge sipping fine wine, then going back to a tent in Leigh Woods...  

[glynriley]

28 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

Not just that but the fact is most of the he money he’s had to put in is because he ran the club so badly .

Indeed. We had a period of austerity after his first dalliance with Mark Ashton (the McInnes era).

Lo and behold, he not only re-employed him, but gave him the keys to the safe.

And here we are again...

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

This sort of comment always intrigues me

Of course the value of investment from SL can never be called out

But what would you say if SL has invested 10% of the money available to him, but a supporter has invested 90% of their money available -who has made the bigger commitment?

Clearly SL. Players are paid in £ not sentiment. Were players and suppliers happy to be paid in sentiment you'd have a point save that's not how the world works 

Am I 'more committed' travelling to AG than a supporter living on Duckmoor Road? Of course not, my choice where I live and if that requires a far greater commitment in time and resource that's a matter for me and me only.

[Alex_BCFC]

He’s not done as well as hoped given the amount of money he’s put in. But I don’t see a load of people rushing in to take over and he’s ever said he’d consider offers etc. No one has ever come forward. Reason for that is it’s just spunking money up the wall generally. We are fortunate we have someone who can keep us going given what has happened to other clubs.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@BTRFTG in one word?

Better.

But hey if you’re happy with where we are, the Lansdown’s involvement and what he now has and BCFC doesn’t then ok.

I’m not. Never have been. He’s little if any interest in BCFC or sport generally. Apart from how it will further his ambitions and how he’s viewed by his adoring “support”.

And of course how much more he’ll eventually gain. From his investment. I suspect he’s been well advised by his Merchant Venturers……

How much do you think his freeholds in BS3 are worth now…….

I was always under the impression SL had nothing to do with the Merchant Venturers?

Have things changed since Red Trousers days?

[BTRFTG]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You could read my posts in this thread (some in response to others)?  It’s all there.  

I'm going through in order but all you've said is there are other ways in which the club might have been run. No Sh*t Sherlock.

As per the OP, what stopped any of those criticising SL from buying the club and running it how best they think fit to achieve the success they believe City merit? And if the answer is lack of money, de facto SL's clearly demonstrated he's far more suited to the task given he's managed to clear that first hurdle.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

How can anyone be so successful in part of their life and make, what seems  to be, an almighty **** up in another.

 

Many many people. Especially when it comes to Football.

I reckon when he eventually sells, he won't break even. 

[BTRFTG]

19 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@BTRFTG in one word?

Better.

But hey if you’re happy with where we are, the Lansdown’s involvement and what he now has and BCFC doesn’t then ok.

I’m not. Never have been. He’s little if any interest in BCFC or sport generally. Apart from how it will further his ambitions and how he’s viewed by his adoring “support”.

And of course how much more he’ll eventually gain. From his investment. I suspect he’s been well advised by his Merchant Venturers……

How much do you think his freeholds in BS3 are worth now…….

SO WHY DON'T YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT?

The puzzling thing for me is why SL bothers in the first place? I've watched us since 65 and if I had his wealth would I invest in the club? Like hell would I give thankless and potless idiots the chance to abuse me for funding their hobby to the tune of several thousands of pounds each per season.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Selred said:

Many many people. Especially when it comes to Football.

I reckon when he eventually sells, he won't break even. 

 

TBF very, very few people do. Those that do either achieve it by stiffing the club they own in some way, or by buying into an existing big "brand" and profiting from the non-football activities. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

I'm going through in order but all you've said is there are other ways in which the club might have been run. No Sh*t Sherlock.

As per the OP, what stopped any of those criticising SL from buying the club and running it how best they think fit to achieve the success they believe City merit? And if the answer is lack of money, de facto SL's clearly demonstrated he's far more suited to the task given he's managed to clear that first hurdle.

Better football structure fit for the needs of modern day football, succession planning of key people, critical analysis of recruitment, better budget control, etc.

[BTRFTG]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Better football structure fit for the needs of modern day football, succession planning of key people, critical analysis of recruitment, better budget control, etc.

You signally miss the point. You might well have said scrap the academy and buy the best 22 players covering each position in the world each season.

We all see the mistakes that have been made, but its his club, his money, his mistakes not ours. If fans want to act as though they own the club and have a say in the matter, then they should fund it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think if we look at the 17/18 team, several have gone on and played at a higher level / better clubs, or were from pedigree.

Flint - went to Boro who were bigger / better than us at the time

Baker - had come from PL pedigree Villa

Magnússon - went to CSKA Moscow (CL team)

Brownhill  - went to PL Burnley

Bryan - went to PL Fulham

Reid - went to PL Cardiff

I didn’t include Fielding / Steele, Wright, Pack, Smith and Paterson from the cup nor others like O’Dowda, Diedhiou, etc. But Paterson was a top player at that time too, so that’s 7 bloody good players.  Diedhiou had come from Lg1 in France.

When I look at this, we obviously over-achieved in the League Cup, and for a period we were flying in the Champ, but we finished 11th.  So, I wouldn’t say he over-achieved with that set of players.  That was the squad to get to the play-offs and sneak up with.  We blew it.

The 18/19 side on a similar basis:

Webster - went to PL Brighton

Kalas - had come from PL Chelsea

Kelly - went to PL Bournemouth

Brownhill - went PL Burnley

Weimann - had come from PL pedigree

Add in Paterson, Baker and Diedhiou (as per 17/18).

We went closer, finishing 8th.

Id say that that was a better achievement than 17/18 in some respects…but it was starting to rack up in terms of £££s spent….and when we did lose Webster, Kelly and Brownhill eventually we used the money poorly, and are counting the cost now.  Although in 19/20 I though Johnson managed to get good results over performance, but that was the worrying sign, that it would catch up with us.

But those two sets of seasons and the players are chalk and cheese to what we have now imho.

It’s a good debate no less.

 

Good post. I'd also argue that he didn't get the best out of Nagy, Massengo, Wells.

Arguably but less clearcut, could have deployed players such as Kalas, Benkovic DaSilva, Henriksen, Eliasson better in his final year too. Surely Moore in a back 3 had he not loaned him out could have enabled a bit of a higher line?

Was unlucky with Afobe of course, which in turn knocked Palmer down a notch as he was only really looking the part when playing behind Weimann and Afobe.

Losing DaSilva for half a season didn't help either, think Kalas and Nagy both got medium term injuries quite early and Smith of course was in an injury hit spell over a year or 2 which pushed into 2019-20.

Do agree with this post overall though, and crucially the two seasons in q ie 2017/18 and even 2018-19 we had some strong Cup run/big Cup tie experience through the squad which would have served us well in the playoffs.

Consider:

2018-19- Reached Round 5 of the FA Cup, beating (relegation bound) Huddersfield of the PL and losing narrowly but playing very well 2nd half to top 7 PL Wolves.

2017-18- Enough said really! The run spoke for itself.

2016-17- 4th Round League Cup, won our 3rd Round tie FA Cup.

2015-16- Okay we went out of both early but nearly beat WBA of the PL away, almost in fact.

2014-15- FA Cup, 4th Round in which we played and perhaps should have beaten West Ham!

Won the JPT too of course, trip to Wembley is useful experience.

2013-14- JPT again one game in particular- 19k in a Bristol derby early in the season, big Cup tie atmosphere for a relatively small competition.

Plus we beat (newly promoted to PL) Crystal Palace in the League Cup.

Fielding, Flint, Smith, Pack, Bryan, Reid- these were all here in 2013 and still by 2017-18 still indeed most were mainstays, invaluable experience to fall back on! I know Reid's path was more mixed.

Brownhill of course too...joined 2016 but did he feature in the relatively okay 4th Round run in 2016-17? Certainly in the run of 2017-18! Wright joined January 2017 but was a regular in THAT run of 5 seasons ago. Magnússon only joined in 2016 but he may have had experience of the reasonable run in 2016-17 too.

By 2018-19, of course Flint, Magusson, Bryan and Reid had gone but we still had Fielding and the midfield duo plus Brownhill taking a more prominent role..Wright was still on the books.

Overall not just ability wise, but Cup run nous transferable to play-offs, the time to strike really was in one of those two seasons.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[WarksRobin]

39 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

@BTRFTG in one word?

Better.

But hey if you’re happy with where we are, the Lansdown’s involvement and what he now has and BCFC doesn’t then ok.

I’m not. Never have been. He’s little if any interest in BCFC or sport generally. Apart from how it will further his ambitions and how he’s viewed by his adoring “support”.

And of course how much more he’ll eventually gain. From his investment. I suspect he’s been well advised by his Merchant Venturers……

How much do you think his freeholds in BS3 are worth now…….

Out of curiosity, would you be happier with the pre-development Ashton Gate, playing in League 2 but run (financially) sustainably?

IMO it’s fine to question the Lansdown legacy and how well the club is run on their watch but your posts are unnecessarily rude and come across as jealous rants.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

You signally miss the point. You might well have said scrap the academy and buy the best 22 players covering each position in the world each season.

Ridiculous response.  

We all see the mistakes that have been made, but its his club, his money, his mistakes not ours. If fans want to act as though they own the club and have a say in the matter, then they should fund it.

so we aren’t allowed to comment on a forum.  Ridiculous response, again.  
 

How dare you call Andi Weimann “flappy”, was it your £2m that funded it. Very hypocritical of you!

jeez

 

4 minutes ago, WarksRobin said:

Out of curiosity, would you be happier with the pre-development Ashton Gate, playing in League 2 but run (financially) sustainably?

IMO it’s fine to question the Lansdown legacy and how well the club is run on their watch but your posts are unnecessarily rude and come across as jealous rants.

Chipping in, might we have done things in a different order, achieve promotion then build?  (I know promo wasn’t guaranteed either way)

[spudski]

Running and owning a football Club, is like being Prime Minister in Government.

You aren't going to please everyone.

And like Ministers in Government...you question the motives as to why they are doing it. 

You can't win. You'll always displease someone. 

However...you do win, where it counts, if power, connections, legacy and money are your main driving points.

The 'plebs' of society still vote for the same idiots in Government, regardless of party. They moan about their lot in life. Things never change. The system stays the same. It goes on...whilst those in charge rub their hands in glee. Because they know the system protects them and is in their favour.

The same in many ways for a football club owner. The fans can moan, they can show their displeasure. Moan about every aspect of the club. Moan about the prices. Put up with mediocre quality in food, drink, merchandise etc etc.  But they still turn up, they still pay their money, they still put up with mediocrity and over priced items etc. And the owners know they can get away with it.

Those moaning...still turn up and support what they aren't happy with.

Mental when you think about it.

The only way things will ever change, is if the majority actually physically did something about it.

If people refused to vote. The leaders would have to listen and change the system.

If fans stopped attending, the owners would have to listen or change.

It's pretty simple...but we are programmed to follow regardless, and just moan about our lot.

So in conclusion...the OP has his little rant. We all add our bit. But nothing will change. 

Simple as that.

 

[elhombrecito]

If anyone actually believes that Steve Lansdown has made a profit from his ownership of Bristol City, or will in the future, they are deluded. A cash cow it is certainly not.

 

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Chipping in, might we have done things in a different order, achieve promotion then build?  (I know promo wasn’t guaranteed either way)

Why is it a ridiculous response?

You said there are other ways in which the club could have been run. Both the failed and underperforming Chelsea and Man City pretty much adopted the model I proposed when purchased and that surely brought them success? Premier clubs these days largely buy talent they want when needed rather than develop, so what's ridiculous?

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 hours ago, frenchred said:

Most of that was spunked by him to make up for mistakes made by............ Him! 

Partly yes, partly no IMO.

Some of this was on infrastructure for a start and beyond that, while he did pay for his mistakes on the pitch, indeed still is the truth is that the Championship is also a horribly expensive business if you have ambitions to be up the top end.

Not even talking wage bill but the amount of cash needed just to sustain in a lot of cases. A lot of Championship clubs truly burn through cash.

(There is also a belief among some that the infrastructure investment is for his ultimate profit but that's another debate).

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

[Clutton Caveman]

17 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Well, well, well.

Here we are again. Wasn’t long ago that Korey smacked it home, we were deliriously delighted and Bobby scored from the spot.

Now we’re ****** over by the boys in Lincoln green. The call goes out. Nige is a clown. He has to go.

But all’s well in Planet Lansdown. The Messiah has deep pockets. We shall be grateful. We have a lovely stadium - I’ll grant ‘ee Steve - The Killers were superb.

He’s got his medal - services to sport? His home city? Making us proud?

He’s had to contend with Covid. And all that brought with it. Was there an opportunity to offer up AG for immunisation jabs? Did he do so out of the goodness of his heart? Anyone know?

He’s had to endure the issues around FFP. And for a professional investor he’s done that very well…. He let Ashton in and **** us over. He let Junior take up the reins and **** it up.

And now we have good old Tinman in a new role…. Who remembers the sorry state of Swansea affairs when “the legend” sat in the dug out as the lights were turned off?

Job for the boys? Don’t challenge me. Go now Nige. Go now. Self preservation. Like Mr Coppell…..

But it’s ok. We are grateful. Steve is doing a great job. For Steve and his merry, proud gang…..

Am I grateful? Am I bollocks. The only one who’s done well out of this debacle whilst Capn Steve has had his hands on the udders of the cash cow in BS3 is the Messiah himself.

Freeholds in Ashton Vale anyone?

Worse cash cow I have ever heard of. More like a money pit

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Hold on. This is drifting off topic. It’s not meant to be about Nige. It’s all about the Lansdowns.

You remember them. They who can’t do a thing wrong. They who dig deep and put their own funds in. All out of an altruistic value.

Or they who’ve invested big time in an asset. A cash cow. They who’ve deliberately identified an under performing asset and who now own - lock, stock and barrel - some very valuable freeholds in BS3.

Ashton Vale anyone? How many acres did Steve ride his Trojan Horse into there?

Might seem extreme and provocative - and it is and it’s meant to be - but I don’t buy the vision. I don’t see it.

How can anyone be so successful in part of their life and make, what seems  to be, an almighty **** up in another.

Discuss….

Oh and twasn’t cider. Twas Elvis Juice and Hazy Jane….

Seems to me that in some peoples opinion the worse thing you can do in life is to be successful. Yes he has heaps of money but as a young man he took loads of risks and worked hours that many would never even know existed. What he now choses to do with his money is his choice. Would you prefer owners like Birmingham or Hull have? It seems to me that some former players who had it all but chose to be more committed to Thatchers than football are somehow more respected. Do I detect a hint of reverse snobery, or not one of the people c**p

[robin_unreliant]

18 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

I don't see any mystery in why other clubs have done more with less. It is very simple. Whenever journos ask NP how we can solve our problems on the pitch his answer is get better players. Recruitment - that is where BCFC has repeatedly wasted its money. 

SC and Birt recruited brilliantly well for L1 and SC had a few players he wanted that we know turned out as quality at Championship level (Gray and Maguire) but SL refused to back him. 

We have failed miserably with recruitment and SL gave money to people who were inept at spending it. I have a feeling NP would do better on this given chance but I am beginning to feel he will be gone before the financials allow us to spend anything. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by robin_unreliant

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He’s not done as well as hoped given the amount of money he’s put in. But I don’t see a load of people rushing in to take over and he’s ever said he’d consider offers etc. No one has ever come forward. Reason for that is it’s just spunking money up the wall generally. We are fortunate we have someone who can keep us going given what has happened to other clubs.

I get the feeling he isn’t realistic about a sale price. Either that or he is asking potential owners to cover the debt accrued over the years? Idk how it works really but he said earlier in the year he is looking for investment and it would have to be substantial not something like 1-2m. So what is he looking for? 8 figures? Didn’t Derby and Hull recently sell for around 20m? Did the new owners take on debt? 
 

Guess what I wonder is what would be a good sale price for city? 

[BigAl&Toby]

27 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

If anyone actually believes that Steve Lansdown has made a profit from his ownership of Bristol City, or will in the future, they are deluded. A cash cow it is certainly not.

 

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

[Mr Popodopolous]

22 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I don't see any mystery in why other clubs have done more with less. It is very simple. Whenever journos ask NP how we can solve our problems on the pitch his answer is get better players. Recruitment - that is where BCFC has repeatedly wasted its money. 

SC and Birt recruited brilliantly well for L1 and SC had a few players he wanted that we know turned out as quality at Championship level (Gray and Maguire) but SL refused to back him. 

We have failed miserably with recruitment and SL gave money to people who were inept at spending it. I have a feeling NP would do better on this given chance but I am beginning to feel he will be gone before the financials allow us to spend anything. 

Trust me, look at some other clubs be they of a similar profile, yoyo the latter higher profile to see how much shares and cash can be poured in! This isn't the same as revenue of course but some of these can make SL look a bit of a pauper at times timeframe wise!

This is fair but there are no guarantees in this industry. I still stand by my view that there might have been an FFP issue had we signed Maguire and Gray at that time, the numbers give some indication that it could have been possible.

Cotts himself could have shown a bit more patience in year 1, toughed it out and revenue naturally would have risen in 2016-17 which would have benefited him and not Lee Johnson (revenue up £7m in 2016-17 from 2015-16).

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I get the feeling he isn’t realistic about a sale price. Either that or he is asking potential owners to cover the debt accrued over the years? Idk how it works really but he said earlier in the year he is looking for investment and it would have to be substantial not something like 1-2m. So what is he looking for? 8 figures? Didn’t Derby and Hull recently sell for around 20m? Did the new owners take on debt? 
 

Guess what I wonder is what would be a good sale price for city? 

In the case of Hull, the owner was clawing back debt over the years, unsure how much without checking years worth of accounts. Ever since the fans turned on him for Hull City Tigers idea, the taps went off somewhat and he started getting his loans repaid.

I guess Mel Morris wrote off his at Derby, and in any event him putting them into administration may have forced his hand somewhat.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Roadrunner]

Congrats Steve.

[BigAl&Toby]

31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Partly yes, partly no IMO.

Some of this was on infrastructure for a start and beyond that, while he did pay for his mistakes on the pitch, indeed still is the truth is that the Championship is also a horribly expensive business if you have ambitions to be up the top end.

Not even talking wage bill but the amount of cash needed just to sustain in a lot of cases. A lot of Championship clubs truly burn through cash.

(There is also a belief among some that the infrastructure investment is for his ultimate profit but that's another debate).

Then again there are clubs who do a lot more with less so it's a tough one.

@Mr Popodopolous it’s not another debate. It’s tied in intrinsically with this one.

He’s the banker. He invests. He secures that investment - as his absolute right to do.

But it’s an investment - a shrewd one - nevertheless. He, or companies where he’s the beneficial owner, hold all the cards. Or chips.

He might not cash them in. But at some point they’ll be cashed in. Perhaps when Ashton Vale is ready…..

[red panda]

45 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

I can't tell whether you actually believe this, or are just trolling, and I'm not sure which is the most depressing

[frenchred]

2 hours ago, Alex_BCFC said:

He’s not done as well as hoped given the amount of money he’s put in. But I don’t see a load of people rushing in to take over and he’s ever said he’d consider offers etc. No one has ever come forward. Reason for that is it’s just spunking money up the wall generally. We are fortunate we have someone who can keep us going given what has happened to other clubs.

Reason being what would one be buying? 

A stadium? Nope

Training ground? Nope

Failing team built by him? Yes

[BTRFTG]

59 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Bollocks.

Why do it then? Cash cow it is. His hands are on her teats squeezing away.

If not Steve then Junior. Or Junior’s Junior.

Steve’s legacy.  You really think he’d squander his hard earned cash? 

Funds invested by the ultimate beneficial owner. All fully secured.

And then there’s Ashton Vale……

The more deluded the funnier this gets.

Do you know how to read accounts?

In case not let's keep it simple.

If you took EVERYTHING OWNED by (OR DUE) the various enterprises wrapped up in the holding company (that's nothing in respect of Ashton Vale,) and SUBTRACTED ALL LIABILITIES OWED, including shareholder capital and loans at base, issue price, then.....

Ta Da .....

You be IN DEBT to the tune of £170m & counting.

If that's a cash cow, who'd want to be a farmer?

[Numero Uno]

18 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

But pro rata does not pay the bills unless you are in administration, which could have been if we did not have an owner with such deep pockets.

So sure you will say paying for his mistakes, if that is putting money in to back managers etc who purchase and pick the team. But it's easy with hind sight to say it was all wrong.

Bit like you being able to provide last weeks lottery  numbers, easy after the event

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

Agree with chunks of this.

He hasn't or rather those he has entrusted to spend haven't, spent so wisely at times.

Possibly too stuck at the wrong times and twisted at others! January 2008 is a good example of when a bigger push might have got us over the line.

Likewise we arguably could have gone a bit bigger in January 2019- another CM and example striker for depth wouldn't have gone amiss for example. We were not far from the playoffs that year...not far at all. We were in a comfortable FFP position and that didn't even include the sale of Kelly which came in mid May 2019.

In theory we could really have gone for it in 2019-20 or 2020-2021, talking a do it in one gambling that it would be enough to see us over the line. Had we stuck another £20m (wages, loan fees plus amortisation) into one of these seasons might we have gone up? Well we'll never know and the consequences if not would have been dire!

Otoh we spent increasing amounts predicated on buoyant and perhaps rising transfer profits. That was reckless to say the least!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Brentford are a good example actually because I looked the other day at a few of their signings in the same period in which we were spending bigger than now certainly.

Benrahma and Maupay cost less than Diedhiou fee wise.

Not individually but as a collective. I know we were linked with Watkins but were Benrahma or Maupay (both French based) on our radar at all??

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Brentford

Benrahma- summer 2017, £1.8m

Maupay, summer 2017, £1.6m

Us

Diedhiou, summer 2017- £5-5.5m

The Brentford two were younger as well...and went for good to large fees.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[sh1t_ref_again]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It’s not that straightforward is it? After the event as you call it is a 20 plus year stretch. What we are trying to do now should have been done many years ago. Whether you support Nige implementing it or not we at least have something in place that resembles a plan. That took a while to implement.

Obviously you have to be grateful we have a guy at the top that pays for the mistakes he allowed others to make with his money. Nobody can be that ungrateful but an alternative way of looking at it is has Steve spent his £214m wisely? There are other owners out there at clubs like Brentford that haven’t pissed that level of spen up the wall. That’s what the op is getting at really?

Last point - Steve is most definitely NOT £214m down on the deal if he cashes all his chips in.

Don't think anyone would disagree including SL the money he has spent has not brought the success he hoped for when spending it. Although as pointed out before we are now considered an established championship side, where as years ago we were more of a league 2/3 side along with the gas, swindle, Plymouth etc. You picked Brentford, again that's with hindsight of a team that has done well and could be held as an example. Rightly or wrongly SL has had a plan and backed his managers / CEO with the hope it would get us to the prem, as we know that did not work out and caused us bigger issues now (added in with a dose of covid affecting football).

 Could 200+ million be spent better and had more success, of course it could, but there is no magic formula that guarantees success, added the restrictions of FFP and playing in a rigged competition where teams are given a £40 million pound head start,

If SL losses are reduced then good, but bear in mind its not just the actual money invested, its the money he could of made on that money over the 20 years.

I know SL is not perfect, but I feel lucky to have a club with a benefactor such as SL where I am not worried if and when they want out or we when will be in admiration.

As for those who want him out, not sure where the next billionaire is hanging around desperate to lose some money on a small football club in a city they have probable never heard of. 

[BTRFTG]

28 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Brentford are a good example actually because I looked the other day at a few of their signings in the same period in which we were spending bigger than now certainly.

Benrahma and Maupay cost less than Diedhiou fee wise.

Not individually but as a collective. I know we were linked with Watkins but were Benrahma or Maupay (both French based) on our radar at all??

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Had an interesting conversation once with one of their more respected supporters. He explained that whilst others considered it a waste of money Brentford invested (not cheap,) in DATA, not ex pros who thought themselves knowledgeable in the game. As mirrored at Leicester, Man City & Liverpool the data threw up a number of 'bargains' that weren't then high on anybody's radar.

They invested heavily in a huge scouting network too…eyes are the first part of their screening process.  Data confirmation / rejection next, then eyes again once narrowed down.

They did indeed get data experts though, proper data experts, not interns for zip like some clubs.
 

I was chatting to someone the other day who’d been approach by a league one club (not Rovers, although that would’ve been even funnier had it been them) asking if he could provide some data charts for a player they were looking at.  When he asked why they didn’t use their own data, the reply was “we haven’t got any”.  The next question was “and can you do it for free”.  A league one club.  I was shocked!  He said “piss off”!

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

[BTRFTG]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Their data based model has always been of interest to me. I have read too that it's a mix of traditional scouting and data? I wonder how some of those, perhaps Benrahma and Maupay to take an examples were sourced etc.

It was said that data gave scouts players to review who otherwise weren't being discussed but also allowed the club to empirically reject some players who scouts were adamant should be acquired. Not rocket science but allowed them to ask the not unreasonable question, what does 'x' bring that we already don't have? I can only think had we done likewise we wouldn't have ended up with 8 midfielders all in their manager's likeness.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, BTRFTG said:

It was said that data gave scouts players to review who otherwise weren't being discussed but also allowed the club to empirically reject some players who scouts were adamant should be acquired. Not rocket science but allowed them to ask the not unreasonable question, what does 'x' bring that we already don't have? I can only think had we done likewise we wouldn't have ended up with 8 midfielders all in their manager's likeness.

That is a very good point.  It has to be two way.  Can’t just rely on the scout’s say-so…how do you critique the scout too.

Funnily enough I was speaking to a guy at Brentford about exactly this a few months back.  How do you know if the scout is reporting a player having his one “worldie” a season, or whether that’s there normal level.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Thanks both. Found an interesting quick read on it below, about to read it myself.

https://www.scoutedhub.com/post/design-a-stunning-blog

Said they had two scouts in France based on a quick read. Do wonder if Louis-Jean could have been that bridge, given his knowledge of the English and French game.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't think anyone would disagree including SL the money he has spent has not brought the success he hoped for when spending it. Although as pointed out before we are now considered an established championship side, where as years ago we were more of a league 2/3 side along with the gas, swindle, Plymouth etc. You picked Brentford, again that's with hindsight of a team that has done well and could be held as an example. Rightly or wrongly SL has had a plan and backed his managers / CEO with the hope it would get us to the prem, as we know that did not work out and caused us bigger issues now (added in with a dose of covid affecting football).

 Could 200+ million be spent better and had more success, of course it could, but there is no magic formula that guarantees success, added the restrictions of FFP and playing in a rigged competition where teams are given a £40 million pound head start,

If SL losses are reduced then good, but bear in mind its not just the actual money invested, its the money he could of made on that money over the 20 years.

I know SL is not perfect, but I feel lucky to have a club with a benefactor such as SL where I am not worried if and when they want out or we when will be in admiration.

As for those who want him out, not sure where the next billionaire is hanging around desperate to lose some money on a small football club in a city they have probable never heard of. 

Agree with a lot of that. We are now in a position where we need to cut our cloth because of past mistakes that we’re allowed to happen (albeit for the right reasons) BUT this is where people who support Steve but want to see the Manager canned need to be careful.

We have a plan, the right plan in our circumstances imo BUT panicking and sacking the Manager adds £2-3m to our football losses at a reasonable guess. We (Steve) spends that dosh and then the new Manager and Coaching team come in and say “how am I expected to work with kids and has beens?”. Then what?

FFP says we can barely spend money on reinforcements now but with a bit of wheeling and dealing we can probably add a couple in January. Add £2-3m in payouts to sacked staff and compo for new staff and we dont have a pot to piss in when Future transfer windows come round. If the new Manager can magic up consistency in youngsters and revert old un’s to their form of five years ago then great, if they can’t then we all know what is likely to happen.

[TV Tom]

Yes he’s awful, a truly awful decision appointing Pearson and even worse in not having sacked him yet, apart from that I’m glad he’s here

[sh1t_ref_again]

53 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree with a lot of that. We are now in a position where we need to cut our cloth because of past mistakes that we’re allowed to happen (albeit for the right reasons) BUT this is where people who support Steve but want to see the Manager canned need to be careful.

We have a plan, the right plan in our circumstances imo BUT panicking and sacking the Manager adds £2-3m to our football losses at a reasonable guess. We (Steve) spends that dosh and then the new Manager and Coaching team come in and say “how am I expected to work with kids and has beens?”. Then what?

FFP says we can barely spend money on reinforcements now but with a bit of wheeling and dealing we can probably add a couple in January. Add £2-3m in payouts to sacked staff and compo for new staff and we dont have a pot to piss in when Future transfer windows come round. If the new Manager can magic up consistency in youngsters and revert old un’s to their form of five years ago then great, if they can’t then we all know what is likely to happen.

Agree with this, people are quick to forget how well NP had us playing earlier in the season and too quick to ask for change.

We need to persist with NP and not panic into taking the club backwards

[Fuber]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:52, RedHienz said:

Oh right it's all Steve's fault! Thanks for cleaning that one up. 

Didn't realise people still necked 3litres of cider on a Thursday.

Our best upwards trajectory aside from GJ was under the period he nor Jon were chairman , under Keith Dawe.

I think that speaks volumes.

[KegCity]

On 10/11/2022 at 19:07, BTRFTG said:

Steve Lansdown has personally committed over £214m of his own money to ensure Bristol City FC remain trading such we may occasionally have an afternoon of fun at AG.

And you, what have you contributed to keep City trading?

And what does he have to show for it? Bottom end of mid table in the championship when he took over, some time in league one and now back to bottom end of mid table in the championship. Had a great evening v Man United and bottled a play off final, as well as winning trophies in a league we should never have been in. It’s not a great return on investment is it?

Personally think a lot of that money has been spent cleaning up his own mess. Very grateful he’s willing to keep bailing himself out, I’d rather he didn’t need to.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Agree with this, people are quick to forget how well NP had us playing earlier in the season and too quick to ask for change.

We need to persist with NP and not panic into taking the club backwards

Backwards hmm; he came here feb 21 when we were 11th with 33pts; since then his record is p85 w25, L41 D 19 We are currently 20th p20 and won SIX GAMES

So we have lost almost half the games played since he has arrived and currently have won less than a third of games played this season; how exactly is that already not taking us backwards.

Cant really see how one season wonder at Liecs is going to get us anywhere near his own target position this season.

I know SL`S record of decent manager selection is off the rubbish scale but he may get lucky next time as we are def on the slide with "Nige" its time to twist not stick.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree with a lot of that. We are now in a position where we need to cut our cloth because of past mistakes that we’re allowed to happen (albeit for the right reasons) BUT this is where people who support Steve but want to see the Manager canned need to be careful.

We have a plan, the right plan in our circumstances imo BUT panicking and sacking the Manager adds £2-3m to our football losses at a reasonable guess. We (Steve) spends that dosh and then the new Manager and Coaching team come in and say “how am I expected to work with kids and has beens?”. Then what?

FFP says we can barely spend money on reinforcements now but with a bit of wheeling and dealing we can probably add a couple in January. Add £2-3m in payouts to sacked staff and compo for new staff and we dont have a pot to piss in when Future transfer windows come round. If the new Manager can magic up consistency in youngsters and revert old un’s to their form of five years ago then great, if they can’t then we all know what is likely to happen.

Plus to make matters worse, could that extra £2-3m for this tip us from just about compliance to a £2-3m breach say...points deduction?

[sh1t_ref_again]

12 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Backwards hmm; he came here feb 21 when we were 11th with 33pts; since then his record is p85 w25, L41 D 19 We are currently 20th p20 and won SIX GAMES

So we have lost almost half the games played since he has arrived and currently have won less than a third of games played this season; how exactly is that already not taking us backwards.

Cant really see how one season wonder at Liecs is going to get us anywhere near his own target position this season.

I know SL`S record of decent manager selection is off the rubbish scale but he may get lucky next time as we are def on the slide with "Nige" its time to twist not stick.

Whilst sorting out the recruitment mess by LJ & MA, with no money and reducing the wage bill so we conform to FFP. At least I have more faith we are on the right track.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Whilst sorting out the recruitment mess by LJ & MA, with no money and reducing the wage bill so we conform to FFP. At least I have more faith we are on the right track.

ok each to their own but LJ and MA didnt bring themselves here they were invited ,by the king of all our recruitment messes.

Glad you have faith in SL getting his latest employee right, despite his poor win record and our much lower position since his arrival.

[The Constant Rabbit]

Again, the amount of posters who cannot separate the losses of the 'football club' against the massive profits gained in RE holdings, non-sport events, and hundreds and hundreds of newly made freehold's on property is astounding.

No doubt the same people who think the Flyers stadium is for basketball.

£210,000,000 over 20+ years - incredible amount.

What's the interest made on £1,000,000,000,000 over the last 20+ years?

Because that's what Stephen Lansdown is worth - £1,000,000,000,000 - he is the 996th richest person ON THE PLANET (Forbes 2022) - let that sink in - ON THE PLANET.

£210,000,000 is 2/3 years interest on his assets - chump change, coins down the back of the sofa.

 

Look, it's his money, he earned it.

No lack of respect for that.

Wether he spent it well is a debate that will go on for ages.

 

BUT - we used to own this club, this land, and a bit around it. Now BCFC own nothing.

 

Yes Lansdown funds the club - but to say he won't make a huge profit on freehold sales, and the Ashton Vale entertainment / business complex when it's finished is naive at best, duplicitous at worst.

 

Potential buyers pre-covid weren't interested in BCFC - they were interested in buying a Prem-ready ground, with massive non-matchday revenues. 

 

Separate the football from the RE - and then you will see where SL profits.

 

 

For fun - ask yourself 'why Botswana'.....

 

[Kid in the Riot]

£214m spent and not a single season of Premier League football makes him pound-for-pound the worst owner in terms of footballing success in the entire football league. No-one else has spent more and achieved so little. 

But sure "Mr Bristol City" "club legend" etc

Do me a favour. 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

19 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Because that's what Stephen Lansdown is worth - £1,000,000,000,000 - he is the 996th richest person ON THE PLANET (Forbes 2022) - let that sink in - ON THE PLANET.

Get that he’s rich, but he’s not a trillionaire.

[NickJ]

43 minutes ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Again, the amount of posters who cannot separate the losses of the 'football club' against the massive profits gained in RE holdings, non-sport events, and hundreds and hundreds of newly made freehold's on property is astounding.

BUT - we used to own this club, this land, and a bit around it. Now BCFC own nothing.

Yes Lansdown funds the club - but to say he won't make a huge profit on freehold sales, and the Ashton Vale entertainment / business complex when it's finished is naive at best, duplicitous at worst.

Separate the football from the RE - and then you will see where SL profits.

For fun - ask yourself 'why Botswana'.....

 

Hope you don’t mind me editing your post down to the key relevant points. 

Ashton Vale is key to this and Lansdown supposedly was buying it for the benefit of BCFC. 

And sure enough he bought it under the BCFC umbrella, supposedly as BCFC “benefactor” - but BCFC won’t benefit. 

Lansdown supposedly altruistic but hides the financial information in secretive Channel Islands companies. 
 

He can do what he wants and doing it very legally including making his ioffspring MD and Chairman () but      we will never know if the 55 football clubs in The Premier over the past 30 seasons were just lucky or if we were just very unlucky. 
 

Or ran badly. 
 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

£214m spent and not a single season of Premier League football makes him pound-for-pound the worst owner in terms of footballing success in the entire football league. No-one else has spent more and achieved so little. 

But sure "Mr Bristol City" "club legend" etc

Do me a favour. 

You sure...how much did Morris throw at Derby and in what timeframe?

Dai Yongge at Reading seems to pour money down the drain, unsure how Birmingham have been financed under BSH.

Funny thing is, these 3 inherited markedly better positions than they now find themselves.

I would add Chansiri but I know absolutely that he has out in less than £214m...a lot of money all the same for Sheffield Wednesday given their crash under him. Still he inherited a relatively stable position...as did BSH at Birmingham.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Again, the amount of posters who cannot separate the losses of the 'football club' against the massive profits gained in RE holdings, non-sport events, and hundreds and hundreds of newly made freehold's on property is astounding.

No doubt the same people who think the Flyers stadium is for basketball.

£210,000,000 over 20+ years - incredible amount.

What's the interest made on £1,000,000,000,000 over the last 20+ years?

Because that's what Stephen Lansdown is worth - £1,000,000,000,000 - he is the 996th richest person ON THE PLANET (Forbes 2022) - let that sink in - ON THE PLANET.

£210,000,000 is 2/3 years interest on his assets - chump change, coins down the back of the sofa.

 

Look, it's his money, he earned it.

No lack of respect for that.

Wether he spent it well is a debate that will go on for ages.

 

BUT - we used to own this club, this land, and a bit around it. Now BCFC own nothing.

 

Yes Lansdown funds the club - but to say he won't make a huge profit on freehold sales, and the Ashton Vale entertainment / business complex when it's finished is naive at best, duplicitous at worst.

 

Potential buyers pre-covid weren't interested in BCFC - they were interested in buying a Prem-ready ground, with massive non-matchday revenues. 

 

Separate the football from the RE - and then you will see where SL profits.

 

 

For fun - ask yourself 'why Botswana'.....

 

Yet Bristol City Holdings is usually a loss making entity no? Otoh most of the costs will be from the football side of things.

Not really looked at it but an interesting exercise in so far as possible would be to try and strip out all of the footballing costs from those of BCH ie events etc although not all expenses are cash of course.

Sale price net of expenditure to date on Profit on £214m and counting? Certainly can think of ways but from sale of it all?

Loan repayments and potentially interest payments are another side of the ledger of course, potentially.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Spike]

The majority of fans on here seem to judge managers based on their win percentage, forgetting the situations the managers had to deal with etc. 

When you look at this club and how it's done since Lansdown took over I'd say its been pretty successful. Only 4 seasons in league one whilst he's been chairman, an academy that is really impressive and churning out talent, a premier league quality stadium etc

I saw Brighton mentioned but for every Brighton story there are probably 40 plus stories of clubs who tried the same and are still struggling. The entitlement in here is something else, it's like we're owed a place in the Premier League. Why? Because Bristol is a big City? Does that mean Rovers are entitled to a spot in the Prem too? 

Lansdown may have made bad choices but anyone who thinks he wants to see us still in the Championship is mad. What owner of a football club wants then not to be at their best?! Hate Lansdown all you want but he's already said he's willing to sell if the right person comes in so the next thing you have to ask is why he's still the owner? Chances are it's because we're not actually that great of an investment and that is why SL is trying to change that, so we are a great investment. 

I think some people need to start looking at Rovers and realise without Lansdown we very well could be in their position.

[BigAl&Toby]

17 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

The more deluded the funnier this gets.

Do you know how to read accounts?

In case not let's keep it simple.

If you took EVERYTHING OWNED by (OR DUE) the various enterprises wrapped up in the holding company (that's nothing in respect of Ashton Vale,) and SUBTRACTED ALL LIABILITIES OWED, including shareholder capital and loans at base, issue price, then.....

Ta Da .....

You be IN DEBT to the tune of £170m & counting.

If that's a cash cow, who'd want to be a farmer?

Morning @BTRFTG

In a word? Yes. I spent many years reading, reviewing and analysing accounts. Far too many years.

I know from those years that accounts show - and hide - a multitude of things. Remember Enron?

Multi-layered is multi-layered for several reasons. As is being registered offshore. Neither necessarily untoward or illegal, but done for a reason.

And losses. Ah yes. Losses. I’m quite happy if my business shows a loss. Why? Well like Steve I don’t need to demonstrate a profit to a lender. I don’t need to borrow.

And making a loss? Well that’s deductible and offset elsewhere…….

But it boils down to this. 

If Steve is as successful as he undoubtedly is, and if he’s as intelligent as he undoubtedly is, why oh ******* why would he be happy or prepared to keep burning those fivers?

Now common sense - well my deluded and cider fuelled version of it - according to some on here - is that he’s got a plan. An exit plan. Call it a non-philanthropic motive.

Freehold acquisition. One of only a few things that if bought and sold right will guarantee a return on investment.

Maybe, just maybe, Pula Holdings - in itself an interesting name for a company - reckon the Lansdowns used to go on a Yugotours coach from St Mary Redcliffe back in the day - was his vehicle. To acquire swathes of South Bristol…….

Bit like a Trojan Horse……

Deluded. Delirious. Disrespectful. Yep. All of them.

But anyway. I might be wrong. I might be right. We’ll both be dead and buried before Steve, Junior or Junior’s Junior cash in they chips……..

Score prediction for Watford? Wouldn’t be so brash. But **** me let’s hope we win.

If we don’t I guess you’ll still be happy. Happy that when you went to the loo at half-time you didn’t have to stand in such dreadful toilets, happy you could enjoy an amateur performance - not on the green stuff but on that stage out the back - and could have a nice pulled pork sandwich……

Oh yes. Ashton Gate Stadium. Once the home of simply a long established and at times a reasonably successful football club. Now? A multi-faceted income generating cash machine.

Good old Steve.

[glynriley]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

The majority of fans on here seem to judge managers based on their win percentage, forgetting the situations the managers had to deal with etc. 

When you look at this club and how it's done since Lansdown took over I'd say its been pretty successful. Only 4 seasons in league one whilst he's been chairman, an academy that is really impressive and churning out talent, a premier league quality stadium etc

I saw Brighton mentioned but for every Brighton story there are probably 40 plus stories of clubs who tried the same and are still struggling. The entitlement in here is something else, it's like we're owed a place in the Premier League. Why? Because Bristol is a big City? Does that mean Rovers are entitled to a spot in the Prem too? 

Lansdown may have made bad choices but anyone who thinks he wants to see us still in the Championship is mad. What owner of a football club wants then not to be at their best?! Hate Lansdown all you want but he's already said he's willing to sell if the right person comes in so the next thing you have to ask is why he's still the owner? Chances are it's because we're not actually that great of an investment and that is why SL is trying to change that, so we are a great investment. 

I think some people need to start looking at Rovers and realise without Lansdown we very well could be in their position.

Even if you are solely going on the years SL was chairman, it’s more than 4 years in level 3. Throughout his involvement with the club it’s well into double figures. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Morning @BTRFTG

In a word? Yes. I spent many years reading, reviewing and analysing accounts. Far too many years.

I know from those years that accounts show - and hide - a multitude of things. Remember Enron?

Multi-layered is multi-layered for several reasons. As is being registered offshore. Neither necessarily untoward or illegal, but done for a reason.

And losses. Ah yes. Losses. I’m quite happy if my business shows a loss. Why? Well like Steve I don’t need to demonstrate a profit to a lender. I don’t need to borrow.

And making a loss? Well that’s deductible and offset elsewhere…….

But it boils down to this. 

If Steve is as successful as he undoubtedly is, and if he’s as intelligent as he undoubtedly is, why oh ******* why would he be happy or prepared to keep burning those fivers?

Now common sense - well my deluded and cider fuelled version of it - according to some on here - is that he’s got a plan. An exit plan. Call it a non-philanthropic motive.

Freehold acquisition. One of only a few things that if bought and sold right will guarantee a return on investment.

Maybe, just maybe, Pula Holdings - in itself an interesting name for a company - reckon the Lansdowns used to go on a Yugotours coach from St Mary Redcliffe back in the day - was his vehicle. To acquire swathes of South Bristol…….

Bit like a Trojan Horse……

Deluded. Delirious. Disrespectful. Yep. All of them.

But anyway. I might be wrong. I might be right. We’ll both be dead and buried before Steve, Junior or Junior’s Junior cash in they chips……..

Score prediction for Watford? Wouldn’t be so brash. But **** me let’s hope we win.

If we don’t I guess you’ll still be happy. Happy that when you went to the loo at half-time you didn’t have to stand in such dreadful toilets, happy you could enjoy an amateur performance - not on the green stuff but on that stage out the back - and could have a nice pulled pork sandwich……

Oh yes. Ashton Gate Stadium. Once the home of simply a long established and at times a reasonably successful football club. Now? A multi-faceted income generating cash machine.

Good old Steve.

Thats the rub for me we are now part of something else, something no fans were asked about or voted for. In fact when the completely new stad was proposed over the road redevelopment "was not an option" Steves dream, Steves money we have no say whatsoever in the road we are being taken down.

 

[Kid in the Riot]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You sure...how much did Morris throw at Derby and in what timeframe?

Dai Yongge at Reading seems to pour money down the drain, unsure how Birmingham have been financed under BSH.

All three of those clubs have played in the Premier League though. 

If we're seriously down to comparing Lansdown with a crook like Morris, then I think that just further illustrates my point.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Spike said:

The majority of fans on here seem to judge managers based on their win percentage, forgetting the situations the managers had to deal with etc. 

When you look at this club and how it's done since Lansdown took over I'd say its been pretty successful. Only 4 seasons in league one whilst he's been chairman, an academy that is really impressive and churning out talent, a premier league quality stadium etc

I saw Brighton mentioned but for every Brighton story there are probably 40 plus stories of clubs who tried the same and are still struggling. The entitlement in here is something else, it's like we're owed a place in the Premier League. Why? Because Bristol is a big City? Does that mean Rovers are entitled to a spot in the Prem too? 

Lansdown may have made bad choices but anyone who thinks he wants to see us still in the Championship is mad. What owner of a football club wants then not to be at their best?! Hate Lansdown all you want but he's already said he's willing to sell if the right person comes in so the next thing you have to ask is why he's still the owner? Chances are it's because we're not actually that great of an investment and that is why SL is trying to change that, so we are a great investment. 

I think some people need to start looking at Rovers and realise without Lansdown we very well could be in their position.

Wake up with SL we could be in there league next year, (according to computer forecast an almost 20% chance as of this moment). The Stadium is not ours we have no say in its occupants/income streams. He and Dawes sacked one of the best managers we`ve had in recent times SC after giving him no time at all to prove himself in this div.

Has since hired imo a load of wasters who have regressed this club to where we are today 20th and one of the favs to go down. Not too successfull imo just yet.

[IAmNick]

When it comes to some of Lansdowns running of the club I'm mostly just reminded of Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

I don't believe he's doing it to make money, that's an absurd suggestion in my opinion. Why would you make billions in the markets/financial services then pivot into a football club?! They're pretty terrible ways to make money, apart from a few.

If he wanted to build houses to make money, he didn't need a club for that.

I also think people can romanticise the past with this talk of "our" stadium that "we" owned. Come on.

I've said before, I think he mostly wanted a legacy in the city, and to have an equivalent of the F1 teams, golf courses, and Caribbean islands all his mates probably own. A PL club is a pretty good one.

Edited November 12, 2022 by IAmNick

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

All three of those clubs have played in the Premier League though. 

If we're seriously down to comparing Lansdown with a crook like Morris, then I think that just further illustrates my point.

Not under their present ownership they haven't. Not at all.

Birmingham

Autumn 2016, Inherited a lowish loss making and top half Championship side under Rowett.

That's a good foundation with which to give it a bit of a go, Birmingham a reasonable sized club too.

Somehow within 18 months or so and 4 or 5 managers later they'd failed FFP and were under an embargo, points docked. Nearly went down twice and multiple relegation scraps in that period...all that money and for what.

Derby

Wow, check the League table when he arrived.

Up near the top, playing excellent football- in or around the play-offs for years...some losses but not huge. Tbh they did reach 3 x playoffs including a final before things started to unravel...

..Wow though when they unravelled this happened rapidly! Legal disputes, failure to fund the club correctly during Covid (MSD), nearly went down in 2020-21, relegation, including more legal disputes,  deductions for FFP AND administration in the same season (unprecedented)! No accounts released for years. To say nothing of unpaid creditors. All that money and for what.

Reading

Inherited a play-off final side. Overachieved that year yes, Parachute Payments running out yes but why wouldn't you give it a bit of a go.

He did tbh, some of it folly. Ever bigger losses, and he helped to offset these by selling the stadium twice ie once to Holding company, once from there to his external company, see also old training ground and land around the ground for sale. Loaned Aluko to his (now bankrupt) Chinese club...

Refused to sell players at the right time- see Swift- which meant he lost Richards on a free to Bayern, due to EFL wage limits imposed over FFP issues. Could have got a decent fee for him and a better one for Olise if not for EFL wage limits.

£100-150m in 4 seasons and for what. Failing FFP, Business Plan, 2 relegation battles, numerous managers. All that money..

..Having said that he does now seem to own all of Reading's fixed assets.  In a costly part of the world.

Sheffield Wednesday

A bit like Birmingham, Chansiri inherited a stable if an unspectacular base.

Playoff final year 1, semi final year 2 but then things truly unravelled. Aimed for the stars...missed.

Year 3 things stalled and there were huge injuries (familiar).

Found they were on course to breach FFP hugely, botched a stadium sale and leaseback as we know and over a year on they were charged- legal claims and counter claims, eventually got a 12 point deduction (halved to 6).

This deduction relegated them, first deduction in their history, also took out loans secured against Hillsborough which is a red flag perhaps- either rolled over x 2 or 3 different ones. Went full circle by losing the (League One) play-offs in 2021-22...All that money and for what.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Morning @BTRFTG

In a word? Yes. I spent many years reading, reviewing and analysing accounts. Far too many years.

I know from those years that accounts show - and hide - a multitude of things. Remember Enron?

Multi-layered is multi-layered for several reasons. As is being registered offshore. Neither necessarily untoward or illegal, but done for a reason.

And losses. Ah yes. Losses. I’m quite happy if my business shows a loss. Why? Well like Steve I don’t need to demonstrate a profit to a lender. I don’t need to borrow.

And making a loss? Well that’s deductible and offset elsewhere…….

But it boils down to this. 

If Steve is as successful as he undoubtedly is, and if he’s as intelligent as he undoubtedly is, why oh ******* why would he be happy or prepared to keep burning those fivers?

Now common sense - well my deluded and cider fuelled version of it - according to some on here - is that he’s got a plan. An exit plan. Call it a non-philanthropic motive.

Freehold acquisition. One of only a few things that if bought and sold right will guarantee a return on investment.

Maybe, just maybe, Pula Holdings - in itself an interesting name for a company - reckon the Lansdowns used to go on a Yugotours coach from St Mary Redcliffe back in the day - was his vehicle. To acquire swathes of South Bristol…….

Bit like a Trojan Horse……

Deluded. Delirious. Disrespectful. Yep. All of them.

But anyway. I might be wrong. I might be right. We’ll both be dead and buried before Steve, Junior or Junior’s Junior cash in they chips……..

Score prediction for Watford? Wouldn’t be so brash. But **** me let’s hope we win.

If we don’t I guess you’ll still be happy. Happy that when you went to the loo at half-time you didn’t have to stand in such dreadful toilets, happy you could enjoy an amateur performance - not on the green stuff but on that stage out the back - and could have a nice pulled pork sandwich……

Oh yes. Ashton Gate Stadium. Once the home of simply a long established and at times a reasonably successful football club. Now? A multi-faceted income generating cash machine.

Good old Steve.

Accounts yes don't always show the full picture and abbreviated accounts even more so...careful what we all post all on a public forum I guess but are you suggesting something else?

Because clearly the BCH accounts are different to the CLUB accounts, as they contain more than just the club related activities- the stand alone cost v income of the commercial side would be interesting to know as the BCH accounts would include club allocated commercial plus football side for costs and revenue.

Have a couple of conspiracy theory type thoughts in mind but would be getting into dangerous territory as a public forum etc. No idea if they would even be true either!!

Offsetting of losses is possible of course but you only get a bit back via the company itself through this.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

11 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

Again, the amount of posters who cannot separate the losses of the 'football club' against the massive profits gained in RE holdings, non-sport events, and hundreds and hundreds of newly made freehold's on property is astounding.

No doubt the same people who think the Flyers stadium is for basketball.

£210,000,000 over 20+ years - incredible amount.

What's the interest made on £1,000,000,000,000 over the last 20+ years?

Because that's what Stephen Lansdown is worth - £1,000,000,000,000 - he is the 996th richest person ON THE PLANET (Forbes 2022) - let that sink in - ON THE PLANET.

£210,000,000 is 2/3 years interest on his assets - chump change, coins down the back of the sofa.

 

Look, it's his money, he earned it.

No lack of respect for that.

Wether he spent it well is a debate that will go on for ages.

 

BUT - we used to own this club, this land,  the bit around it. Now BCFC own nothing.

 

Yes Lansdown funds the club - but to say he won't make a huge profit on freehold sales, and the Ashton Vale entertainment / business complex when it's finished is naive at best, duplicitous at worst.

 

Potential buyers pre-covid weren't interested in BCFC - they were interested in buying a Prem-ready ground, with massive non-matchday revenues. 

 

Separate the football from the RE - and then you will see where SL profits.

 

 

For fun - ask yourself 'why Botswana'.....

 

It really is both very funny and a bit sad when someone who knows very very little about money and wealth starts gobbing off about someone else's wealth from a position of total ignorance.

Firstly 1 billion is 1000,000,000 not, as you say: 1000,000,000,000- you just made him the richest man on the planet.

Secondly you say he has had that 20+ years- WRONG ! On the basis that HL's IPO was in 2007 that's less than 15 years although the share price only made him a billionaire after 2014 ( 8 years) .

Thirdly as for "WE" used to own the club,the land and the bit around it (whatever the hell that means) NO WE DIDNT!! Us fans have never owned the club, the stadium or any land. Some us bought shares about 25 years ago which totalled less than 1% of issued shares.

The only point you make which is accurate is " Look, it's his money , he earned it"

Are you some sort of Corbynite policeman that decides how a self made man should spend his money? That if he makes profits ancilliary to BCFC that they should in some way be lumped in to all things BCFC? It's a point that is often made by those having a pop at SL and is more anti capitalist or sheer jealousy than anything else.

As to buying a game reserve in Botswana- Why? Mainly because he can and it's none of your effing business!

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, IAmNick said:

If he wanted to build houses to make money, he didn't need a club for that.

My question is - would he have got the land and the planning permission without doing the sports stuff?  If I was completely cynical one might argue the sports stuff could be seen as a “back-hander” to the council?