Lee Johnson

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Chivs said:

What you have to appreciate is that LJ kept throwing double-six, time after time. But he was always lucky with the roll of the dice....

I just wish we'd had a few more managers over the years who'd been able to throw those double sixes then! And, you know what they say about making your own luck.

Seriously, I'm not quite sure what "luck" you have in mind. As PF has said, he benefitted from patience (to a degree) and financial backing - although I'm not sure he was particularly lucky in having a character like Ashton working alongside him and pulling the purse strings. That, I feel, was his eventual undoing. And he certainly wasn't lucky losing the likes of Brownhill and Webster in the manner he did.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

I just wish we'd had a few more managers over the years who'd been able to throw those double sixes then! And, you know what they say about making your own luck.

Seriously, I'm not quite sure what "luck" you have in mind. As PF has said, he benefitted from patience (to a degree) and financial backing - although I'm not sure he was particularly lucky in having a character like Ashton working alongside him and pulling the purse strings. That, I feel, was his eventual undoing. And he certainly wasn't lucky losing the likes of Brownhill and Webster in the manner he did.

I think with LJ, you could put up any positive thing, and I could probably counter it with a negative spin, and the same with anything negative you came up with I could find a positive spin.  He did good things, he did bad things.  He had an egotistical CEO, which I’m sure in lots of cases made his job difficult, but I suspect in others were of benefit to him.

He will live in our heads rent free forever!!!

Many threads on OTIB will digress into a reference to him / his time here.

Its just the way it is…and it will always be.

 

[lenred]

3 hours ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Said it on an earlier page  I do not get the dislike of Lee Johnson. As a former player and manager who in my memory always seemed to give it his all but it just didnt work out , don't think I've ever heard him speak negatively about the club either.

Yet there are city fans that clap Holloway and are smitten by his cringe one liners.  Short memories of burning a city flag I suppose.

Never disliked or slagged him as a player.   Thought he was fine at what he did tbf and got very short shrift (no pun intended) from some of our fans.  Must’ve been hard form him as well given the circumstances with his dad being the manager and the relationship his family has with the owners.    However those relationships with the hierarchy then meant that as a manager he was given far far far too much leeway when things went bad, which turned the situation as toxic as it was come the last year or so of his time here.   He should never have been afforded that extra time and it hurt us as a club.  Lansdowns stubbornness and ‘my club’ interview didn’t help matters and only served to add pressure to LJ also.    I admire the bloke for what he’s done with his property portfolio - he’s obviously got his head very much screwed on - but I don’t think he’s a very good football manager and nothing he has done since he has left the City suggests any different and I’d be amazed once he gets the boot from Hibs that he gets a decent level role for a long long time, if at all.    

[Fuber]

20 hours ago, Pezo said:

Could someone argue that LJ has had our highest finish in the last 15 years so even if it was nepotism it was relatively successful?

Only at the backing of £45m in transfer fees and 110% increase in wages.

By comparison. Cotts only spent £3m the one window he had.

And the former only worked thanks to fees we received for Kodjia, among others.

[Dolman_Stand]

4 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Only at the backing of £45m in transfer fees and 110% increase in wages.

By comparison. Cotts only spent £3m the one window he had.

And the former only worked thanks to fees we received for Kodjia, among others.

We only spent 45m because it had been generated on player sales which LJ would argue was down to players improving under his coaching methods.This circle of argument in both direction will never be squared off

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

5 hours ago, Deluded Sag said:

They didn't respect him at C*ty because he was parachuted into the job. And your fans certainly didn't respect him when he was a player and accused him of only being on the pitch because of nepotism - I'm genuinely surprised he came back to the club after that. 

Johnson would have been better off staying at Strangeways for longer and learning from managing in the prison leagues, like a certain manager in north Bristol. 

 

[Fuber]

4 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

We only spent 45m because it had been generated on player sales which LJ would argue was down to players improving under his coaching methods.This circle of argument in both direction will never be squared off

The spending wasn't the problem - the wage spending exacerbated by the bloated squad was, still is, and remains the issue.

Fact of the matter is we're in the hole now entirely due to LJs clubs in bags approach, for every good deal - Brownhill, Webster; there is countless others that didn't work, Engvall, Djuric, Adelakun, Szmodics, Eisa, Hegeler, Marinovic, Rodri, Kent, Giefer, Palmer among others.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Fuber said:

The spending wasn't the problem - the wage spending exacerbated by the bloated squad was, still is, and remains the issue.

Fact of the matter is we're in the hole now entirely due to LJs clubs in bags approach, for every good deal - Brownhill, Webster; there is countless others that didn't work, Engvall, Djuric, Adelakun, Szmodics, Eisa, Hegeler, Marinovic, Rodri, Kent, Giefer, Palmer among others.

Dunno if this tells a story or not?

Basically, the make up of our match day squad.

Just in case you’re wondering why two slightly different shades of red for Academy, “Academy*” is for players signed into academy, e.g. Idehen, rather than cane through Academy from an early(ish) age, e.g. Conway.

Of the Holden / Johnson signings in Saturday’s squad:

Bentley (LJ)- unused sub

Kalas (LJ) - unused sub

Williams (DH) - unused sub

Dasilva (LJ) - unused sub

Wells (LJ) - started but has had contract extended by Nige

It is starting, ever so slowly, to become Nige’s squad

[Bazooka Joe]

Judging by the latest Edinburgh derby results, maybe Johnson's Hearts not in the game anymore.

If things don't improve it'll soon be Sunshine on Leeve.

Sorrow, sorrow,

Sorrow, sorrow.

Shame really.

The Hibee faithful deserve better, and perhaps Lee could do with a break.

[BigTone]

6 hours ago, Robbored said:

Tomlin wasn’t the problem PF.

He was one of them for sure

[Robbored]

5 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

.I do feel he does get a harder time than he deserves on here. He obviously benefited from a great deal of patience and financial backing.  

Ok, care to expand on that?

No doubt that Tomlin could be awkward to manage but other managers coped pretty well with him. I don’t think that he was the real problem behind LJs failure to achieve anything at City, the issues were much deeper than just one difficult player.

[Port Said Red]

22 minutes ago, Robbored said:

No doubt that Tomlin could be awkward to manage but other managers coped pretty well with him. I don’t think that he was the real problem behind LJs failure to achieve anything at City, the issues were much deeper than just one difficult player.

I am sorry, I agreed with @italian dave earlier and thought, no I'll leave the bloke to his inane statements that he thinks are facts, but this is too much. 

Please name for us the Managers who "coped pretty well with" Tomlin. This should be fascinating coming from a bloke who constantly tells us he doesn't have any interest in players outside of the. City team...............

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

No doubt that Tomlin could be awkward to manage but other managers coped pretty well with him. I don’t think that he was the real problem behind LJs failure to achieve anything at City, the issues were much deeper than just one difficult player.

It’s always what you think. Where is your factual proof?

Truth is, you don’t have any to back up your thoughts.

 

[italian dave]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think with LJ, you could put up any positive thing, and I could probably counter it with a negative spin, and the same with anything negative you came up with I could find a positive spin.  He did good things, he did bad things.  He had an egotistical CEO, which I’m sure in lots of cases made his job difficult, but I suspect in others were of benefit to him.

He will live in our heads rent free forever!!!

Many threads on OTIB will digress into a reference to him / his time here.

Its just the way it is…and it will always be.

 

Never a truer word, Dave...!

And in managerial terms he was here for a relatively long time, and there was certainly lots going on. It was an eventful time.

He once said something about the tales he could tell if he wrote a book - and I would love to read it if he ever did! Maybe one for the OSIB "Cider With...." team in the future!

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I am sorry, I agreed with @italian dave earlier and thought, no I'll leave the bloke to his inane statements that he thinks are facts, but this is too much. 

Please name for us the Managers who "coped pretty well with" Tomlin. This should be fascinating coming from a bloke who constantly tells us he doesn't have any interest in players outside of the. City team...............

Even Colin couldn`t get a tune out of him which tells you a lot IMO.

[Redtucks]

12 hours ago, Robbored said:

Tomlin wasn’t the problem PF.

I don't believe that until I see it on the OS!

 

[downendcity]

18 hours ago, Tim S said:

Pretty much spot on. Lee is a very good coach, forward thinking and not afraid to think outside the box.

Lee is a very modern coach. But I think he needs a strong number 2 who is a bit old school to help balance things. When he finds the right balance in his coaching team and at the right club - I truly believe it will click into place and he will be successful.

I agree that LJ was a forward thinking and pretty good coach, but always thought that one of the problems was that LJ thought he had to prove just how clever and forward a coach he was.

This resulted in  overthinking and overcomplicating things,  leading to him seeming to focus increasingly more on countering the opposition strengths rather than playing to our own.

 

[cidered abroad]

10 hours ago, downendcity said:

I agree that LJ was a forward thinking and pretty good coach, but always thought that one of the problems was that LJ thought he had to prove just how clever and forward a coach he was.

This resulted in  overthinking and overcomplicating things,  leading to him seeming to focus increasingly more on countering the opposition strengths rather than playing to our own.

 

In other words, a crap manager!

Football is a simple game not a bloody chess tournament.

[phantom]

Interesting discussion on SSN about Hibs and LR just now, mentioned him signing too many players that are not good enough for the squad and don't get included

Was it "really" all down to Mark Ashton the mess we ended up in?

[2015]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

Interesting discussion on SSN about Hibs and LR just now, mentioned him signing too many players that are not good enough for the squad and don't get included

Was it "really" all down to Mark Ashton the mess we ended up in?

Of course it wasn't. However, if you look at Ipswich as well they have signed a ridiculous amount of players since Ashton came in.

In other words Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton were a match made in hell for our club.

[ashton_fan]

22 hours ago, Fuber said:

The spending wasn't the problem - the wage spending exacerbated by the bloated squad was, still is, and remains the issue.

Fact of the matter is we're in the hole now entirely due to LJs clubs in bags approach, for every good deal - Brownhill, Webster; there is countless others that didn't work, Engvall, Djuric, Adelakun, Szmodics, Eisa, Hegeler, Marinovic, Rodri, Kent, Giefer, Palmer among others.

I'm sure the wage levels of the players signed was nothing to do with LJ, Ashton would have negotiated wage levels. Also the players we signed would have been identified by the recruitment team. Although there were more losers than winners some of the winners were extremely big ones. LJ had his faults but can't be blamed for everything, the main reason we're in a financial mess is because of COVID before that we were well within the FFP levels.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Of course it wasn't. However, if you look at Ipswich as well they have signed a ridiculous amount of players since Ashton came in.

In other words Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton were a match made in hell for our club.

Makes me wonder if Ashton signed loads of players at Oxford. 

[2015]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Makes me wonder if Ashton signed loads of players at Oxford. 

Looks like during his spell of 3 transfer windows from July 2014 until January 2016 he signed 18 players and 14 of them were free transfers.

I'll give him some credit, it does look like he did well at Oxford, they won promotion to League 1 in 2015/16. Roofe, Sercombe, Lundstram all pretty good signings at League 2 level whilst already having O'Dowda and George Baldock on their books.

[Fordy62]

1 hour ago, 2015 said:

Of course it wasn't. However, if you look at Ipswich as well they have signed a ridiculous amount of players since Ashton came in.

In other words Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton were a match made in hell for our club.

And herein lies the problem. We didn’t have an money before LJ&MA and we haven’t had any after. No one has ever had carte blanche like they did.

Lansdown’s biggest mistake. Backing a couple of blokes who hadn’t earned it. 

[Robbored]

33 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Looks like during his spell of 3 transfer windows from July 2014 until January 2016 he signed 18 players and 14 of them were free transfers.

I'll give him some credit, it does look like he did well at Oxford, they won promotion to League 1 in 2015/16. Roofe, Sercombe, Lundstram all pretty good signings at League 2 level whilst already having O'Dowda and George Baldock on their books.

Free or not that’s still a lot of signings. He did the same at City and again at Ipswich. I wonder how many other CEO’s  made as many signings at different clubs?

Edited January 25, 2023 by Robbored

[2015]

14 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

And herein lies the problem. We didn’t have an money before LJ&MA and we haven’t had any after. No one has ever had carte blanche like they did.

Lansdown’s biggest mistake. Backing a couple of blokes who hadn’t earned it. 

They made a lot of money in 2016 off of Jonathan Kodjia which enabled the club to make some transfers.

I'm glad we had John Pemberton as assistant during that period for about a year after Johnson took over, he was the experience head the club needed during that time. 

[2015]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Free or not that’s still a lot of signings. He did the same at City and again at Ipswich. I wonder how many other CEO’s  are as many signings at different clubs?

From Oxford's POV though it got them promotion and made a pretty healthy profit from the signings he made during his time there on Roofe and Lundstram. I don't like Mark Ashton, but from an Oxford perspective he did a decent job and now they are a steady League 1 club.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ashton_fan said:

the main reason we're in a financial mess is because of COVID before that we were well within the FFP levels

I disagree, Covid just brought it on a bit quicker.  We’d sold the golden geese!!!

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

I'm sure the wage levels of the players signed was nothing to do with LJ, Ashton would have negotiated wage levels. Also the players we signed would have been identified by the recruitment team. Although there were more losers than winners some of the winners were extremely big ones. LJ had his faults but can't be blamed for everything, the main reason we're in a financial mess is because of COVID before that we were well within the FFP levels.

No we were not. As fees received were never guaranteed.

On a simple turnover versus playing wages comparison, we were over.

 

[ashton_fan]

47 minutes ago, Fuber said:

No we were not. As fees received were never guaranteed.

On a simple turnover versus playing wages comparison, we were over.

 

We weren't over the FFP limit at the time or we'd at least have been threatened with a penalty, your 'simple' figure is meaningless - I don't think our turnover has ever covered wages while we've been in the Championship we've always relied on SL to cover our losses.

[petehinton]

 

[Fuber]

3 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

We weren't over the FFP limit at the time or we'd at least have been threatened with a penalty, your 'simple' figure is meaningless - I don't think our turnover has ever covered wages while we've been in the Championship we've always relied on SL to cover our losses.

We were if it wasn't for the inflated Webster fees - literally the only reason, we're currently only under it now thanks to NP and Gould.

If LJ/MA had kept wages around the 16/17 margin of £20-21m mark, we would have had a wages to turnover ratio of circa 80% and would have been partially sustainable.

Only reason why it never happened under early LJ and the Cotts era was due to the stadium revamp capping turnover up to £12-14m, which we were allowed allowances for.

If you apply a wage cap of £23m, i e. Up to a 10% increase, between 17-19 would have been sustainable.

Not bloating that to £33mpa - which even the likes of Tomlin and Szmodics etc contribute towards as irrespective of breaking even on the transfer fees we still had to pay their wages.

The sheer turnover of playing staff was stupidity. Irrespective of it being LJ or MAs responsibility. LJ doesn't help himself when he himself coined the clubs in bag tagline.

It was an idiotic strategy that if not for SL would have had us in utter financial peril. Ergo it was never sustainable.

[ashton_fan]

2 minutes ago, Fuber said:

We were if it wasn't for the inflated Webster fees - literally the only reason, we're currently only under it now thanks to NP and Gould.

If LJ/MA had kept wages around the 16/17 margin of £20-21m mark, we would have had a wages to turnover ratio of circa 80% and would have been partially sustainable.

Only reason why it never happened under early LJ and the Cotts era was due to the stadium revamp capping turnover up to £12-14m, which we were allowed allowances for.

If you apply a wage cap of £23m, i e. Up to a 10% increase, between 17-19 would have been sustainable.

Not bloating that to £33mpa - which even the likes of Tomlin and Szmodics etc contribute towards as irrespective of breaking even on the transfer fees we still had to pay their wages.

The sheer turnover of playing staff was stupidity. Irrespective of it being LJ or MAs responsibility. LJ doesn't help himself when he himself coined the clubs in bag tagline.

It was an idiotic strategy that if not for SL would have had us in utter financial peril. Ergo it was never sustainable.

I'm sure SL approved of the transfer policy and you can't ignore the money from the Webster transfer just because it kills your argument!

[REDOXO]

17 minutes ago, Fuber said:

We were if it wasn't for the inflated Webster fees - literally the only reason, we're currently only under it now thanks to NP and Gould.

If LJ/MA had kept wages around the 16/17 margin of £20-21m mark, we would have had a wages to turnover ratio of circa 80% and would have been partially sustainable.

Only reason why it never happened under early LJ and the Cotts era was due to the stadium revamp capping turnover up to £12-14m, which we were allowed allowances for.

If you apply a wage cap of £23m, i e. Up to a 10% increase, between 17-19 would have been sustainable.

Not bloating that to £33mpa - which even the likes of Tomlin and Szmodics etc contribute towards as irrespective of breaking even on the transfer fees we still had to pay their wages.

The sheer turnover of playing staff was stupidity. Irrespective of it being LJ or MAs responsibility. LJ doesn't help himself when he himself coined the clubs in bag tagline.

It was an idiotic strategy that if not for SL would have had us in utter financial peril. Ergo it was never sustainable.

To be fair it was coined by GJ! LJ hijacked it!

12 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

I'm sure SL approved of the transfer policy and you can't ignore the money from the Webster transfer just because it kills your argument!

Of course spending at these levels would have had to been approved by SL or someone working on his behalf (Jon). 
 

However what gets me is where was a CFO amongst all this. It seems SL and his minions would back Ashton and Johnson at any cost. Quite literally! 
 

 

[Fuber]

19 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

I'm sure SL approved of the transfer policy and you can't ignore the money from the Webster transfer just because it kills your argument!

It doesn't kill my argument - it supports it and is quite literally my main point.

SL gets equal blame along with Jon, MA, and LJ, I've never stated I don't include SL as accountable as I thought that was a given - I'm very critical of his role in all this as well as his general running of the club.
The buck stops with LJ, for me, simply due to the fact the latter can simply have said he no longer needed players, if he was being overridden in his role of manager then he should have resigned - it's quite literally that straight forward if he has/had any integrity on the assumption that was the situation. So for my view of LJ, and this is purely my opinion not fact - he loses face for myself in either situation.

My point is that we were reliant on just one or two transfers - but we were relying on keeping that up. Before Semenyo's emergence the last twelve months and Pearson blooding the like of Vyner, Scott, Pring, and others, we were in the proverbial shitter.

With regards to a chairman whose message was - 'sustainability' - from the outside in, I view it as utter incompetence and stupidity when contrasting that with the club accounts.

For example, we would of needed net transfers profit of £10m per annum to keep anywhere near FFP guidelines, never mind being self-sustaining under the strategy.  Demand from outside can not be managed or assumed - ergo its a high exposure risk that should not have been undertaken in that setting.

You must reinvest wisely and not blow huge fees out for that system to work, including wages, to emulate the likes of Brentford which is what we in effect needed to do, between academy players, free agents', loans, and a good scouting network getting value for money where possible.

The fact that the previous scouting setup was loyal to MA and not the club, speaks greater volumes than anything else. There was nothing sustainable about that period, so no quarter should be given for such.

SL is bankrolling his own ****-ups currently, appointing both MA and LJ, and we're in the climax of the storm in terms of weathering the impact of it.

18 hours ago, REDOXO said:

To be fair it was coined by GJ! LJ hijacked it!

Of course spending at these levels would have had to been approved by SL or someone working on his behalf (Jon). 
 

However what gets me is where was a CFO amongst all this. It seems SL and his minions would back Ashton and Johnson at any cost. Quite literally! 
 

 

Doubt there was one, Nepotism at its finest with zero checks in place to balance actions from the top.

[bcfcredandwhite]

I don’t subscribe to the polarisation opinion that a lot of people do on here. It seems that you either love the guy or absolutely hate him - with no in between. 
I’m probably in a tiny minority here, but I thought LJ was ok. Not brilliant and not godawful. Just ok - both as a player and a manager. 
Some people (probably correctly) quote nepotism, ‘charmed life’, ‘uncle Steve’ etc but you still need to have SOME ability to hold down a job in what is probably the most cut-throat of industries. 
As a player he was ok. Plenty of people gave him stick for being in the squad under his dad, but he wasn’t the worst player we’ve had at BS3 by a long chalk. He wasn’t brilliant but he was ok and part of the squad that got us closer to the promised land than any squad has since the days of Alan Dicks. 
As a manager too, a lot has been made about the money spent during his tenure and you can’t argue with figures, but you still need to select a side, choose tactics and adjust when losing - Lee did all that pretty well imho for most of the time he was at the Gate. 
He was ok in my book - we’ve had a lot worse  

My opinion only of course and like I said I recognise I’m in the minority. 

[JBFC II]

6-0 win for Johnson today v Aberdeen, perhaps a winning streak is on its way...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64356678

[RedLionLad]

15 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

6-0 win for Johnson today v Aberdeen, perhaps a winning streak is on its way...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64356678

 Best of luck to him

[AshtonRobin21]

Every now and again when I see the LJ thread appear, I ask myself the one real important question…..

What on earth happened to that 100000 inch TV screen he was so desperate for?

He copied the idea from a German club (Hoffenheim?) and begged SL for it.

There’s no way Nige is using that thing in training. 
 

I bet it cost a fortune! We really did throw money at anything at that time.

[CodeRed]

9 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Every now and again when I see the LJ thread appear, I ask myself the one real important question…..

What on earth happened to that 100000 inch TV screen he was so desperate for?

He copied the idea from a German club (Hoffenheim?) and begged SL for it.

There’s no way Nige is using that thing in training. 
 

I bet it cost a fortune! We really did throw money at anything at that time.

I wonder if Nige is using the drone....and the grass measuring device !

 

[italian dave]

24 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

Every now and again when I see the LJ thread appear, I ask myself the one real important question…..

What on earth happened to that 100000 inch TV screen he was so desperate for?

He copied the idea from a German club (Hoffenheim?) and begged SL for it.

There’s no way Nige is using that thing in training. 
 

I bet it cost a fortune! We really did throw money at anything at that time.

And, of course, even now there’s nothing about LJs tenure that gets taken out of proportion or exaggerated…

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

There’s no way Nige is using that thing in training. 

It’s basically stuck at the RHPC with a screensaver stuck on a PowerPoint slideshow!

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s basically stuck at the RHPC with a screensaver stuck on a PowerPoint slideshow!

[REDOXO]

For the love of god can’t we have the Johnson/Ashton sub forum so the normal people who have moved on never have to hear about either of the **** again!!

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, JBFC II said:

6-0 win for Johnson today v Aberdeen, perhaps a winning streak is on its way...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64356678

I was really pleased for him, I hope it buys him some more time to sort that squad out. The Hibees fans seems really weird, when he went in they were saying "ah maybe he's the guy to get rid of all this shite in our squad" but recently it's been "ah but not so and so, he's a club legend" and "he's upsetting the squad by making changes". 

Having said that Aberdeen did lose in the cup last week to a team 6 leagues below them, and sacked their Manager 19 minutes after today's result, so maybe they were there for the taking?

[Herbsley]

If I remember correctly when he was part of the squad in 08 we were 2nd in the league then got injured and we dropped down out of the automatics. Come play off final it was his first game back for a while. No use crying over spilt milk over the Windass goal but I for one reckon if he hasn’t been injured we’d have made top 2.

don’t get the hatred for the man. Wore city on his sleeve and I wish him all the best in whatever ventures he has to go through

[Taz]

7 hours ago, Herbsley said:

If I remember correctly when he was part of the squad in 08 we were 2nd in the league then got injured and we dropped down out of the automatics. Come play off final it was his first game back for a while. No use crying over spilt milk over the Windass goal but I for one reckon if he hasn’t been injured we’d have made top 2.

don’t get the hatred for the man. Wore city on his sleeve and I wish him all the best in whatever ventures he has to go through

Morning Gary 

[winsaw]

9 hours ago, Herbsley said:

If I remember correctly when he was part of the squad in 08 we were 2nd in the league then got injured and we dropped down out of the automatics. Come play off final it was his first game back for a while. No use crying over spilt milk over the Windass goal but I for one reckon if he hasn’t been injured we’d have made top 2.

don’t get the hatred for the man. Wore city on his sleeve and I wish him all the best in whatever ventures he has to go through

I watched ever game that season and if Lee was in the midfield or not made no difference as it was Marvin who did all the work in there, the reason we didn't go up automatic was we didn't spend the money we should have in January on a top striker who could have got us 12-13 goals in the run it, god bless Dele he was a lovely bloke but never going to get the goals we needed, no player got into double fingers for goals scored in the league that season that's what cost us nothing else, if we would have had a 20 goal striker that season we would have made it to the prem, 

[Bazooka Joe]

10 minutes ago, winsaw said:

I watched ever game that season and if Lee was in the midfield or not made no difference as it was Marvin who did all the work in there, the reason we didn't go up automatic was we didn't spend the money we should have in January on a top striker who could have got us 12-13 goals in the run it, god bless Dele he was a lovely bloke but never going to get the goals we needed, no player got into double fingers for goals scored in the league that season that's what cost us nothing else, if we would have had a 20 goal striker that season we would have made it to the prem, 

I'm inclined to agree.

A rare opportunity wasted.

So close and yet so far.

Effin' Hull !

[Leveller]

3 hours ago, winsaw said:

I watched ever game that season and if Lee was in the midfield or not made no difference as it was Marvin who did all the work in there, the reason we didn't go up automatic was we didn't spend the money we should have in January on a top striker who could have got us 12-13 goals in the run it, god bless Dele he was a lovely bloke but never going to get the goals we needed, no player got into double fingers for goals scored in the league that season that's what cost us nothing else, if we would have had a 20 goal striker that season we would have made it to the prem, 

LJ made 44 appearances in that play off season, I think. To suggest Marvin did all the work is just silly. They were very different players, obviously, and lots of fans didn’t like LJ because he was a neat and tidy unspectacular midfielder, and not the all action type. But he was a very important part of our success for those two seasons. As was McIndoe, whatever his other faults!

[winsaw]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

LJ made 44 appearances in that play off season, I think. To suggest Marvin did all the work is just silly. They were very different players, obviously, and lots of fans didn’t like LJ because he was a neat and tidy unspectacular midfielder, and not the all action type. But he was a very important part of our success for those two seasons. As was McIndoe, whatever his other faults!

Just checked Lee played 39 times that season, the guy I was replying to claimed that the games he missed cost us promotion, I really disagree with this I don't think those 5 missed games didnt have that big an effect, 

I still believe it's our lack of a top striker that cost us, a few more goals turning draws into wins would have seen us have a better chance of staying 2nd, our top scorer in the league that season finished with 8 

[eardun]

15 hours ago, Herbsley said:

If I remember correctly when he was part of the squad in 08 we were 2nd in the league then got injured and we dropped down out of the automatics. Come play off final it was his first game back for a while. No use crying over spilt milk over the Windass goal but I for one reckon if he hasn’t been injured we’d have made top 2.

don’t get the hatred for the man. Wore city on his sleeve and I wish him all the best in whatever ventures he has to go through

That has always been my view as well. We lost 5 of our last 8 matches. 

[italian dave]

22 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I was really pleased for him, I hope it buys him some more time to sort that squad out. The Hibees fans seems really weird, when he went in they were saying "ah maybe he's the guy to get rid of all this shite in our squad" but recently it's been "ah but not so and so, he's a club legend" and "he's upsetting the squad by making changes". 

I suppose that you get the same sort of thing on most fans forums.

For example, there will be posts that take great delight in spreading and discussing gossip and rumours about potential transfers. And there will be posts that talk about all that being just speculation and others that suggest we all wait until it’s officially announced.

Difference on here is that they all come from the same poster.

[O'Garlandinho]

23 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I was really pleased for him, I hope it buys him some more time to sort that squad out. The Hibees fans seems really weird, when he went in they were saying "ah maybe he's the guy to get rid of all this shite in our squad" but recently it's been "ah but not so and so, he's a club legend" and "he's upsetting the squad by making changes". 

Having said that Aberdeen did lose in the cup last week to a team 6 leagues below them, and sacked their Manager 19 minutes after today's result, so maybe they were there for the taking?

The Scottish media had termed that game yesterday as ‘el sackico’, which lived upto its billing.

Looks like LJ rolled another 6 at the right time!

[O'Garlandinho]

On 24/01/2023 at 10:47, Davefevs said:

That was a weird season:

At Xmas we were actually mid table.

But had commenced the start of an unbeaten run that brought 8 successive wins.

We got to 5th:

Then went 5 w/o a win, but recovered back to 5th with 10 points from 4 games, before 5 winless to end the season.  We finished 8th, our best points tally (70) under LJ.  The game against Derby was a bummer.  The Villa game we got stuffed “2-1”, Villa could’ve scored ten!  But we had one disallowed unfairly too.  Kinda summed up the “era”.  I think LJ got results that were better than overall performance levels.  That’s not a criticism btw.  We played better in 17/18 (in the main).

What a crazy season. The 8 match winning run seems quite fortunate when you look game by game, small margins but I guess you make your own luck.

Worth mentioning we had two FA cup wins in that period also. 
 

i am surprised that we were in the top 6 for so long, I recall it differently in my head, I felt like we were stuttering along but clearly not. The draws at home to Ipswich, Wigan and Reading cost us here.

[Malago]

It’s seems to have been forgotten that it was Lee Johnson who stopped Antoine being sold to Chelsea for £200 k. The rest as they say is history.

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, Malago said:

It’s seems to have been forgotten that it was Lee Johnson who stopped Antoine being sold to Chelsea for £200 k. The rest as they say is history.

Waaaaaaaaaaatttttt?  £200k??????

[johnheadbcfc]

20 hours ago, winsaw said:

I watched ever game that season and if Lee was in the midfield or not made no difference as it was Marvin who did all the work in there, the reason we didn't go up automatic was we didn't spend the money we should have in January on a top striker who could have got us 12-13 goals in the run it, god bless Dele he was a lovely bloke but never going to get the goals we needed, no player got into double fingers for goals scored in the league that season that's what cost us nothing else, if we would have had a 20 goal striker that season we would have made it to the prem, 

I watched every game that season and I say he did contribute, seems we are at a stalemate. 

[robinforlife2]

I love how the haters of Lee blame the money.

We’re yet to see what Nige does given purse strings. Facts are facts Lee had us up there despite our spend. He also stopped young talent leaving like Semenyo, he had us viewed as a club big clubs could send future stars to, he had nearly convinced Pep to send us Foden ffs!

His decision making got us 10m for Reid, when a year before if he was sold to Plymouth for 250k no one would have said it was bad business.

The point is, we now have some money and when Scott is sold we will have more. I fear people will say if Pearson spends and it isn’t successful and we are back top ten , that they will still blame Lee saying well Pearson had to sell the best players to buy players so it’s not his fault it’s not worked out.

like it or not, we’ve achieved more under both Johnson’s than any of our other recent managers, but that doesn’t fit certain peoples agendas. 

Next season is a big year for Nige, he’ll finally be able to trade as many have wanted him to, he benefits from a fantastic academy which was nurturing the fruits he’s taking advantage of long before he was here and if we aren’t top 10 next season, then for me, he is not improving us. 

[Phileas Fogg]

9 hours ago, Malago said:

It’s seems to have been forgotten that it was Lee Johnson who stopped Antoine being sold to Chelsea for £200 k. The rest as they say is history.

I think Johnson did definitely have a good eye for a player. I know people will cite the likes of Diony and Engvall as counter points, but I think Johnson could spot good potential in players.

I wonder whether he may be better suited to a more back room role, something around club culture and player ID. A but like what Dan Ashworth or Brian Tinnion do.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, robinforlife2 said:

I love how the haters of Lee blame the money.

We’re yet to see what Nige does given purse strings. Facts are facts Lee had us up there despite our spend. He also stopped young talent leaving like Semenyo, he had us viewed as a club big clubs could send future stars to, he had nearly convinced Pep to send us Foden ffs!

His decision making got us 10m for Reid, when a year before if he was sold to Plymouth for 250k no one would have said it was bad business.

The point is, we now have some money and when Scott is sold we will have more. I fear people will say if Pearson spends and it isn’t successful and we are back top ten , that they will still blame Lee saying well Pearson had to sell the best players to buy players so it’s not his fault it’s not worked out.

like it or not, we’ve achieved more under both Johnson’s than any of our other recent managers, but that doesn’t fit certain peoples agendas. 

Next season is a big year for Nige, he’ll finally be able to trade as many have wanted him to, he benefits from a fantastic academy which was nurturing the fruits he’s taking advantage of long before he was here and if we aren’t top 10 next season, then for me, he is not improving us. 

1st bit in bold:

You don’t have to be a LJ hater to accuse him / the collective of wasting a shedload of money.  It’s a very important part of the balance to the argument / discussion of his time as head coach.  It’s why (a large part of why) we are suffering “austerity” at the mo’ and have had to go back to the start in rebuilding the squad.  Covid is another part of that.

2nd and 3rd bits in bold:

Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves, we still have to stay in this division this season!  We have a thin squad, we can’t just go and spend the Semenyo money although it does give some wriggle room over the next two days I suspect.

Why would you necessarily expect Nige to get top 10 in his (potentially) first season out of austerity?  We’ve done in once since our return to this division.

I remember me setting Lee targets of things like - solid season, no boom or bust runs, no relegation battle, etc.  and that was with no real financial constraints.

Assuming we are still in the Championship I expect improvement next season, but let’s not run before we can walk.

Finally, why try to create such divide by making it Johnson (Snr and Jr in this thread) vs Nige?  I really don’t think that once we get through this cycle of pre-Nige contracted players still being here, many fans will blame LJ for the future, that’s Nige’s destiny alone.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think Johnson did definitely have a good eye for a player. I know people will cite the likes of Diony and Engvall as counter points, but I think Johnson could spot good potential in players.

I wonder whether he may be better suited to a more back room role, something around club culture and player ID. A but like what Dan Ashworth or Brian Tinnion do.

Not a chance imho…he wants to be the manager / head-coach.

[Fordy62]

Nearly convinced Pep to loan us Foden.

That’s out of the same book as “Pep came to me for advice.”

The Grass isn’t always shorter; Lee Johnson Biography. 

[Red Exile]

Not at all sure why folk are so keen to start rewriting the LJ story at this point. Fact was he was a controversial appointment. Personally I liked him as a player but it wasn't at all clear that he was the man to replace Cotts. He was SL's gamble, and so determined was SL to be proved right that he kept Lee long after other owners would have bid him farewell. As a consequence LJ outstayed his welcome. Hence the vitriol.

But the salient point is that having been - we were regularly told by our owner - asked to deliver a promotion challenge Lee Johnson constantly fell short. By comparison with previous City managers he was given the keys to the kingdom. If he'd left earlier and spent less on acquiring clubs that never left the bag he'd be more kindly remembered. Almost 500 games as a manager, never delivered a promotion anywhere. He didn't have it in him, I strongly suspect he never will.

[TonyTonyTony]

He is marmite, that's for sure. Personally don't get the hatred some seem to have for him. People forget he is still quite young, and probably struggles with the man-management side of the game. Comments from players seem to support that. Once he has a few more years experience he may well turn out to be a good manager. He certainly has confidence in himself

[Jackson Lamb]

3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

He is marmite, that's for sure. Personally don't get the hatred some seem to have for him. People forget he is still quite young, and probably struggles with the man-management side of the game. Comments from players seem to support that. Once he has a few more years experience he may well turn out to be a good manager. He certainly has confidence in himself

10 years in management almost. The inexperienced card can no longer be played. 

[TonyTonyTony]

2 minutes ago, The Coach said:

10 years in management almost. The inexperienced card can no longer be played. 

He is 41. Good Man management skills also comes from life experience - that was the wider point is was making

[Jackson Lamb]

11 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

He is 41. Good Man management skills also comes from life experience - that was the wider point is was making

Fair shout @TonyTonyTony that does make sense 

[plumb]

Is anyone able to answer in a simple summary of how Lee Johnson wasted so much money?

Now I admit. I may be mixing up different years and not all of these listed below were under his management.  I also appreciate there have been a lot of duff signings, and extortionate wages have been paid.

 

But we have sold Flint, Bryan, Kodja, Reid, Webster, Brownhill and Kelly for huge sums of money.  Surely Johnson deserves just a little credit.

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, bbew said:

Is anyone able to answer in a simple summary of how Lee Johnson wasted so much money?

Now I admit. I may be mixing up different years and not all of these listed below were under his management.  I also appreciate there have been a lot of duff signings, and extortionate wages have been paid.

 

But we have sold Flint, Bryan, Kodja, Reid, Webster, Brownhill and Kelly for huge sums of money.  Surely Johnson deserves just a little credit.

This thread is 15 pages long, if you read it all then it’s there.

[DaveInSA]

On 28/01/2023 at 22:09, CodeRed said:

I wonder if Nige is using the drone....and the grass measuring device !

 

I doubt Nige has seen a ruler since he left school.