Lee Johnson

[frenchred]

On 24/01/2023 at 14:51, Robbored said:

No doubt that Tomlin could be awkward to manage but other managers coped pretty well with him. I don’t think that he was the real problem behind LJs failure to achieve anything at City, the issues were much deeper than just one difficult player.

Who actually coped well with him?

 

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, frenchred said:

Who actually coped well with him?

 

Warnock

[frenchred]

33 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Warnock

Including loans Tomlin has had 13 clubs! Any you pull out Warnock! Cardiff

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Including loans Tomlin has had 13 clubs! Any you pull out Warnock! Cardiff

I don’t remember the managers of other the other clubs Tomlin was at. Didn’t realise it was 13. He was quite a journeyman.

[Smokey]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Warnock

Who then sent Tomlin out on loan 6 months after signing him, then left him out of their premier league squad.

[FNQ]

interesting words here from LJ reflecting on his January transfer window..
 

I think it’s been a brilliant window in terms of the outs, because we had to do that,” Johnson says. “You have to remember it’s about the facilities. At some clubs, say Bristol City, there are two facilities there so if a player is not wanted, or not getting gametime, or bringing the culture down then you move them to the other facility and protect the culture. I have worked really hard to protect the culture here between ten and two o’clock, and put the discipline in place and have a different training group on at 3pm so if anybody is causing problems or is not fully focused they can be moved. That 3pm group is also for development so we can improve the young players technically as they are coming up from the academy, and that has been really important. In the last four or five weeks there’s no doubt I’ve noticed the change in the malaise that is sometimes around this place.

[Oh Louie louie]

Good idea that. Putting people he deems to have bad habits with youngsters he wants to improve technically, be giving out detentions or lines next

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Good idea that. Putting people he deems to have bad habits with youngsters he wants to improve technically, be giving out detentions or lines next

Looks to me he is saying exactly the opposite, but you can interpret it negatively if you are so inclined.

[downendcity]

23 minutes ago, FNQ said:

interesting words here from LJ reflecting on his January transfer window..
 

I think it’s been a brilliant window in terms of the outs, because we had to do that,” Johnson says. “You have to remember it’s about the facilities. At some clubs, say Bristol City, there are two facilities there so if a player is not wanted, or not getting gametime, or bringing the culture down then you move them to the other facility and protect the culture. I have worked really hard to protect the culture here between ten and two o’clock, and put the discipline in place and have a different training group on at 3pm so if anybody is causing problems or is not fully focused they can be moved. That 3pm group is also for development so we can improve the young players technically as they are coming up from the academy, and that has been really important. In the last four or five weeks there’s no doubt I’ve noticed the change in the malaise that is sometimes around this place.

[Port Said Red]

Just now, downendcity said:

It's incredible. When he was here, one of the criticisms of him was that he didn't have the authority to control players. People were suggesting older mentors, DOFs and all sorts. 

Any suggestion that he is getting tough with malingerers and he is accused of putting people on the naughty step.

The thing about discipline is the same in all walks of life, as much as people dislike it, they also don't like it when they are working hard and some of their colleagues are taking the piss. 

I am pretty sure that most Managers who lose a dressing room, do so because they let some players get away with murder.

[Oh Louie louie]

4 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Looks to me he is saying exactly the opposite, but you can interpret it negatively if you are so inclined.

That doesn't surprise me.if your making senior pros train with the kids, one's you don't trust incidentally, I fail to see the postive side from any angle bare in mind the windows just shut, bet there's enough for a game of six a side from senior pros at these no doubt popular three o clock sessions.

[Oh Louie louie]

They got thrashed by hearts days ago change of malasie! Pull the other one

[Port Said Red]

10 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That doesn't surprise me.if your making senior pros train with the kids, one's you don't trust incidentally, I fail to see the postive side from any angle bare in mind the windows just shut, bet there's enough for a game of six a side from senior pros at these no doubt popular three o clock sessions.

But he hasn't said that, he has a group between 10 and 2 that he just tries to keep in a strict routine, than has the ones he really wants to work with at 3pm in a group he supplements with the youth team. 

I can also tell you that our senior pros love having the kids coming into sessions with them.

6 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

They got thrashed by hearts days ago change of malasie! Pull the other one

And beat Aberdeen 6-0 after, which you have decided not to mention as it doesn't suit your agenda.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Port Said Red

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, FNQ said:

interesting words here from LJ reflecting on his January transfer window..
 

I think it’s been a brilliant window in terms of the outs, because we had to do that,” Johnson says. “You have to remember it’s about the facilities. At some clubs, say Bristol City, there are two facilities there so if a player is not wanted, or not getting gametime, or bringing the culture down then you move them to the other facility and protect the culture. I have worked really hard to protect the culture here between ten and two o’clock, and put the discipline in place and have a different training group on at 3pm so if anybody is causing problems or is not fully focused they can be moved. That 3pm group is also for development so we can improve the young players technically as they are coming up from the academy, and that has been really important. In the last four or five weeks there’s no doubt I’ve noticed the change in the malaise that is sometimes around this place.

9 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

That doesn't surprise me.if your making senior pros train with the kids, one's you don't trust incidentally, I fail to see the postive side from any angle bare in mind the windows just shut, bet there's enough for a game of six a side from senior pros at these no doubt popular three o clock sessions.

That was how I read it too.  That sounds bonkers. @Port Said Red are you saying it’s the other way around?

[Oh Louie louie]

Anybody knows the biggest insult in football is to Train with the kids. I'm sure the city players do enjoy working with the kids port, but they ain't being painted as wrong uns and doing three o clock sessions I'd wager

[Silvio Dante]

In reality, is LJ saying anything different here to what has happened in football for years? The number of times I’ve heard an unwanted/unruly player has been told to “train with the stiffs/youths” is untold. Managers from Ferguson to Warnock have done it, all LJ has done is coloured it in a different hue in his verbose way.

There is literally nothing to see here. I like LJ - but using this as either a method of him innovating or a stick to beat him with is wide of the mark on this one.

[The Journalist]

If you’re trying to improve culture, is having bad apples train with the most impressionable group of people within a club - the young players - going to ultimately be a positive thing?

[The Bard]

He really doesn't know when to say **** all does he?

All sounds like deflection. 

[Port Said Red]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That was how I read it too.  That sounds bonkers. @Port Said Red are you saying it’s the other way around?

Yes, clearly.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Yes, clearly.

Ta, I didn’t read it like that.

So, the bad eggs are on 10-2 on their own, and the good eggs plus the youth / developers come in at 3?  Yes?

[Port Said Red]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ta, I didn’t read it like that.

So, the bad eggs are on 10-2 on their own, and the good eggs plus the youth / developers come in at 3?  Yes?

Maybe, I think it's more that the main group all train together 10-2 but with a very disciplined approach to ensure there is no messing about or shirking. Then at 3 he brings his core players together with the Unders, and works on tactics and technicals.

Like he said, he doesn't have the luxury of sending the bad eggs off to a different area, and as you and @Oh Louie louie have rightly pointed out, letting them mix with the kids would be detrimental all round. 

[adamski]

1 hour ago, FNQ said:

interesting words here from LJ reflecting on his January transfer window..
 

I think it’s been a brilliant window in terms of the outs, because we had to do that,” Johnson says. “You have to remember it’s about the facilities. At some clubs, say Bristol City, there are two facilities there so if a player is not wanted, or not getting gametime, or bringing the culture down then you move them to the other facility and protect the culture. I have worked really hard to protect the culture here between ten and two o’clock, and put the discipline in place and have a different training group on at 3pm so if anybody is causing problems or is not fully focused they can be moved. That 3pm group is also for development so we can improve the young players technically as they are coming up from the academy, and that has been really important. In the last four or five weeks there’s no doubt I’ve noticed the change in the malaise that is sometimes around this place.

Not a clue!!! So what he does is create and intensify a negative sub culture whist promoting a separate "yes men group"... Sounds like he bases his style on the Chinese re-education programme.... Organisational culture development is gained through cohesive ethos and expectation expressed via effective and justified communication. Little Lee loves the culture of the Hero Leader...because anything else is probably beyond his range of experience (look unto the Father my son) and intellectual ability...observing training with the military was probably wasted on him once he got past the parade ground.... 

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, adamski said:

Not a clue!!! So what he does is create and intensify a negative sub culture whist promoting a separate "yes men group"... Sounds like he bases his style on the Chinese re-education programme.... Organisational culture development is gained through cohesive ethos and expectation expressed via effective and justified communication. Little Lee loves the culture of the Hero Leader...because anything else is probably beyond his range of experience (look unto the Father my son) and intellectual ability...observing training with the military was probably wasted on him once he got past the parade ground.... 

How do you think other Managers go about it, when they come to a club with players who only do what they want and create a bad atmosphere everywhere?

They either try to get them back on side, isolate them or ship them out. From what I have read on their forum, he spent the first third of the season playing the same old faces, then when that didn't get them on side, he dropped them and introduced some of the others. In the January window he has apparently done well to ship some of those out, but like all clubs, he probably hasn't got rid of them all, so it's a case of just having to manage them away from the core group.

It's not radically different to what Pearson has done here over the past two years.

[cidered abroad]

On 30/01/2023 at 10:06, TonyTonyTony said:

He is marmite, that's for sure. Personally don't get the hatred some seem to have for him. People forget he is still quite young, and probably struggles with the man-management side of the game. Comments from players seem to support that. Once he has a few more years experience he may well turn out to be a good manager. He certainly has confidence in himself

He is 41 with ten years in management. He'll never be better than a National League manager, just like his father!

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Anybody knows the biggest insult in football is to Train with the kids. I'm sure the city players do enjoy working with the kids port, but they ain't being painted as wrong uns and doing three o clock sessions I'd wager

Yes and when I read that, I immediately thought Lee Tomlin.

If his attitude was really as bad as was reported, you definitely wouldn’t want that example being shown to your younger players

Senior pros like King, Klose etc would be great role models for younger players, but to to expose them to the more troublesome members of the squad sounds a very odd way of working to me.

[Northern Red]

30 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

He is 41 with ten years in management. He'll never be better than a National League manager, just like his father!

Evidently you don't like either of them, and that's fine. But don't just make things up, it cheapens your argument.

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

He is 41 with ten years in management. He'll never be better than a National League manager, just like his father!

That’s a very weird take on Gary Johnson. And inaccurate too.

(if I’ve been whooshed, hey-ho)

[Galley is our king]

46 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

He is 41 with ten years in management. He'll never be better than a National League manager, just like his father!

Attack the post and not the poster.....

This post talks  

[Lrrr]

The best youth players are more than likely training with the 1st team or out on loan, so the group the 'bad eggs' are with probably aren't going to make it at the club anyway. Lets not pretend its just LJ who does this, it happens regularly at most clubs.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Lrrr said:

The best youth players are more than likely training with the 1st team or out on loan, so the group the 'bad eggs' are with probably aren't going to make it at the club anyway. Lets not pretend its just LJ who does this, it happens regularly at most clubs.

Exactly - isn't this pretty much exactly what Pearson did with Marley Watkins? (and the rest!)

[CodeRed]

22 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Evidently you don't like either of them, and that's fine. But don't just make things up, it cheapens your argument.

I think he was parodying a certain poster on here who constantly slags off GJ !!!

[Lrrr]

Just now, CodeRed said:

I think he was parodying a certain poster on here who constantly slags off GJ !!!

Nah that can’t be confirmed because it isn’t on the OS

[CodeRed]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s a very weird take on Gary Johnson. And inaccurate too.

(if I’ve been whooshed, hey-ho)

I think you have Dave! 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

I think you have Dave! 

Darn you @cidered abroad.  You young’uns!!

[Galley is our king]

21 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

I think he was parodying a certain poster on here who constantly slags off GJ !!!

Maybe but Don't you think that if the post is ironic or sarcastic then it should also contain some sort of clue? Like.... well if you listen to some on here anyway

I'm just a simple sort of chap, read it and replied to what it said....

Apologies @cidered abroad if that was the case.

[cidered abroad]

10 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Maybe but Don't you think that if the post is ironic or sarcastic then it should also contain some sort of clue? Like.... well if you listen to some on here anyway

I'm just a simple sort of chap, read it and replied to what it said....

Apologies @cidered abroad if that was the case.

@Davefevs at my age after a lifetime being a City fan, one needs a pretty warped sense of humour. Thankfully while I can dish it out, I can also accept it. Here's an example of my family's humour.

My grandmother's burial was on a wet day at Greenbank Cemetery, with wooden boards around the grave. As the coffin was being lowered into it, my Mum, her daughter, slipped and Dad and I on either side, held on to her arms. I said "Go steady Mum it's not your turn".

Ten years later at the same family grave, as Mum's coffin was lowered, Dad said "She finally made it into that grave". A sad day but we both laughed at the joke.

[adamski]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

How do you think other Managers go about it, when they come to a club with players who only do what they want and create a bad atmosphere everywhere?

They either try to get them back on side, isolate them or ship them out. From what I have read on their forum, he spent the first third of the season playing the same old faces, then when that didn't get them on side, he dropped them and introduced some of the others. In the January window he has apparently done well to ship some of those out, but like all clubs, he probably hasn't got rid of them all, so it's a case of just having to manage them away from the core group.

It's not radically different to what Pearson has done here over the past two years.

in short, if people don't want to be involved you ship them out, the creation of a poison pool is ridiculous ,as anyone competent in management would tell you.. It also reminds me of the school remedial groups that were abundant in the 70s. As ever, someone needs tp sense check his words before they fall out of his mouth!

[Port Said Red]

21 minutes ago, adamski said:

in short, if people don't want to be involved you ship them out, the creation of a poison pool is ridiculous ,as anyone competent in management would tell you.. It also reminds me of the school remedial groups that were abundant in the 70s. As ever, someone needs tp sense check his words before they fall out of his mouth!

But in the case of footballers on contract, how do you "ship them out", if a) they are happy to stay and pick up their money and/or b) nobody else wants them?

You have to use other means, which lots of Managers do.

[Tinmans Love Child]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

@Davefevs at my age after a lifetime being a City fan, one needs a pretty warped sense of humour. Thankfully while I can dish it out, I can also accept it. Here's an example of my family's humour.

My grandmother's burial was on a wet day at Greenbank Cemetery, with wooden boards around the grave. As the coffin was being lowered into it, my Mum, her daughter, slipped and Dad and I on either side, held on to her arms. I said "Go steady Mum it's not your turn".

Ten years later at the same family grave, as Mum's coffin was lowered, Dad said "She finally made it into that grave". A sad day but we both laughed at the joke.

When my father in law got diagnosed with stage 4 brain tumour and 6 months to live,    we were all with him in hospital, and his son said straight away "at least you don't have another 4 years of the ******* Tories!" 

[lenred]

A new ‘Johnsonism’ to enjoy this fine Sunday lunchtime; 

‘‘To a man, everybody competed and we had that one brain as a team that gave us the opportunity to get that big chance."

I know LJ loves his fine margins, but surely group lobotomisation in order to beat St.Mirren is taking things a tad too far.

[eardun]

Interesting to see that it was the battle of the ex City managers today - Johnson v McInnes. Johnson came out on top. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

47 minutes ago, eardun said:

Interesting to see that it was the battle of the ex City managers today - Johnson v McInnes. Johnson came out on top. 

Billy The Fish scored one of the goals I see......................

[And Its Smith]

Now it’s unbeaten in four with three wins in that time. Up to fourth and a lot of Hibs fans sympathetic to the injuries he’s had to put up with this season. Amazing how fickle fans are and the short-termism of everything nowadays! 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Now it’s unbeaten in four with three wins in that time. Up to fourth and a lot of Hibs fans sympathetic to the injuries he’s had to put up with this season. Amazing how fickle fans are and the short-termism of everything nowadays! 

Yeah, pretty crucial for the little run to cement top 6 when the league splits.

[2015]

18 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Now it’s unbeaten in four with three wins in that time. Up to fourth and a lot of Hibs fans sympathetic to the injuries he’s had to put up with this season. Amazing how fickle fans are and the short-termism of everything nowadays! 

I assume you were not one of those calling for Pearson's head 6 weeks ago

Edited February 19, 2023 by 2015

[Northern Red]

21 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Now it’s unbeaten in four with three wins in that time. Up to fourth and a lot of Hibs fans sympathetic to the injuries he’s had to put up with this season. Amazing how fickle fans are and the short-termism of everything nowadays! 

As ever with LJ, the question will be what follows when the unbeaten run ends.

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I assume you were not one of those calling for Pearson's head 6 weeks ago

Correct

[joe jordans teeth]

4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

As ever with LJ, the question will be what follows when the unbeaten run ends.

He’s achieved the league position they should be in,can he break into the top 2,think we all no the answer to that question 

[GrahamC]

26 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Now it’s unbeaten in four with three wins in that time. Up to fourth and a lot of Hibs fans sympathetic to the injuries he’s had to put up with this season. Amazing how fickle fans are and the short-termism of everything nowadays! 

It’s a pretty ridiculous league, too.

Celtic & Rangers are so far ahead of everyone else in terms of finances it’s like League Two sides (certainly those who are around the bottom five) playing against Liverpool or Spurs.

Hibs, Hearts & Aberdeen are borderline Championship in terms of their wages but even then more like Rotherham than a Norwich.

It must be one of the most unequal leagues out there.

[Northern Red]

Just now, joe jordans teeth said:

He’s achieved the league position they should be in,can he break into the top 2,think we all no the answer to that question 

Of course not, but many better managers than him wouldn't do it either and it shouldn't be held against him. Realistically the aim is always to be best of the rest, plus maybe try and pick up a cup if you can.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It’s a pretty ridiculous league, too.

Celtic & Rangers are so far ahead of everyone else in terms of finances it’s like League Two sides (certainly those who are around the bottom five) playing against Liverpool or Spurs.

Hibs, Hearts & Aberdeen are borderline Championship in terms of their wages but even then more like Rotherham than a Norwich.

It must be one of the most unequal leagues out there.

Pretty much.  This is a good chart:

Albeit season before last,you can see how far ahead the Glasgow Pair are.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

Of course not, but many better managers than him wouldn't do it either and it shouldn't be held against him. Realistically the aim is always to be best of the rest, plus maybe try and pick up a cup if you can.

Exactly,he’s doing what he should be doing which is why this thread is funny,you have people slagging him for not doing his job and then people praising him for doing his job and no extra 

[Reigate Red]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty much.  This is a good chart:

Albeit season before last,you can see how far ahead the Glasgow Pair are.

A liitle surprised at how low League 1 is.

[Cityboy1954]

On 03/02/2023 at 09:30, cidered abroad said:

He is 41 with ten years in management. He'll never be better than a National League manager, just like his father!

Talks the talk billy bullshitter 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, pretty crucial for the little 'un to cement top 6 when the league splits.

 

[italian dave]

12 hours ago, Reigate Red said:

A liitle surprised at how low League 1 is.

It’s got Bristol R####s in it; should need no further explanation! 

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Pretty much.  This is a good chart:

Albeit season before last,you can see how far ahead the Glasgow Pair are.

 

12 hours ago, Reigate Red said:

A liitle surprised at how low League 1 is.

It was 2 seasons ago, I would think the top six and teams like Portsmouth would push that up a bit this season. I am more surprised at Serie B in Italy, that's a huge drop off from Serie A.

[White Stripe]

16 hours ago, Reigate Red said:

A liitle surprised at how low League 1 is.

I'm not, having watched the Rovers v Burton highlights  

[Davefevs]

17 hours ago, Reigate Red said:

A liitle surprised at how low League 1 is.

4 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

 

It was 2 seasons ago, I would think the top six and teams like Portsmouth would push that up a bit this season. I am more surprised at Serie B in Italy, that's a huge drop off from Serie A.

Here is the latest version that I’ve created from the same data source (FiveThirtyEight).

 

[cidered abroad]

On 20/02/2023 at 12:18, Elmore James said:

I'm not, having watched the Rovers v Burton highlights  

I suspect that Leagues One and Two are better football quality to any other countries third and fourth tier leagues. Mainly because apart from England all others are minnow clubs, regional, playing in front of hundreds as opposed to minimum in England of around 4,000/5,000.

Also B teams of European big clubs are there. The equivalent to under 21's in England.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Hibernian have today appointed Brian McDermott (ex Reading, Leeds manager) as Director of Football, working with Johnson.

First remit some more clubs for the bag no doubt.....

[headhunter]

51 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Hibernian have today appointed Brian McDermott (ex Reading, Leeds manager) as Director of Football, working with Johnson.

First remit some more clubs for the bag no doubt.....

If I was Lee I would be a little concerned about this appointment:

The following season, on 17 April 2012, McDermott guided Reading to Premier League promotion with a 1–0 win against Nottingham Forest after a superb run of 15 wins in 17 games. On 14 May 2012, McDermott was named as the League Managers Association Championship Manager of the Year at the League Managers Association Awards.^[29]

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, headhunter said:

If I was Lee I would be a little concerned about this appointment:

The following season, on 17 April 2012, McDermott guided Reading to Premier League promotion with a 1–0 win against Nottingham Forest after a superb run of 15 wins in 17 games. On 14 May 2012, McDermott was named as the League Managers Association Championship Manager of the Year at the League Managers Association Awards.^[29]

And has also failed in two subsequent jobs. And not been in management for 8 years. And, most pertinently, has been open about his struggles with alcoholism and how in some part football management had an impact on that - only getting sober after he had finished as a player or manager.

But yeah, he’s clearly angling for Johnsons job.

[Taz]

In all honesty, if we had appointed a decent director of football whilst LJ was here, then Nige wouldn't be doing what he has had to for the past 2 years.

Mind you, not sure that LJ's ego would have liked it much.

[eardun]

Johnson seems happy with the appointment - gives him more time on the training pitch etc 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cw45enpdvpeo

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

Johnson seems happy with the appointment - gives him more time on the training pitch etc 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cw45enpdvpeo

Which is interesting, because when here he brought Macca in to assist Holden so he could spend more time in Recruitment.

[The Original OTIB]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Which is interesting, because when here he brought Macca in to assist Holden so he could spend more time in Recruitment.

Do you mean that you thought he believed everything that he was saying?

 

[petehinton]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Which is interesting, because when here he brought Macca in to assist Holden so he could spend more time in Recruitment.

And wanted Wade Elliott out as he was….concerned……about him!

[REDOXO]

Can we have an LJ sub forum. Can it be on Gas Chat!?

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

And wanted Wade Elliott out as he was….concerned……about him!

Concerned as in seeing him as eyeing up his job?