Lee Johnson

[bearded_red]

Fraud.

[Robbored]

17 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Fraud.

Absolutely right. LJ was a shit player and became a shit manager. It’s a real shame that we had to put up with his pre and post match waffle for so long…………….

The gulf in managerial quality between him, his father and Nige is truly vast. 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely right. LJ was a shit player and became a shit manager. It’s a real shame that we had to put up with his pre and post match waffle for so long…………….

The gulf in managerial quality between him, his father and Nige is truly vast. 

And yet...Pearson is yet to guide us to a higher finish than LJ's 8th place in 2018/19, nor to a higher finish than the 4th place achieved by Johnson Sr. in 2007/08, nor has he taken us to a cup semi-final. Miraculous really.

Edited July 28, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

And yet...Pearson is yet to guide us to a higher finish than LJ's 8th place in 2018/19, nor to a higher finish than the 4th place achieved by Johnson Sr. 

That’s the crucial word.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Robbored said:

That’s the crucial word.

We'll see.

[phantom]

17 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

And yet...Pearson is yet to guide us to a higher finish than LJ's 8th place in 2018/19, nor to a higher finish than the 4th place achieved by Johnson Sr. in 2007/08, nor has he taken us to a cup semi-final. Miraculous really.

I would think that we would all agree if NP had taken over at the time LJ did with his financial backing etc he would have probably done as well

I certainly would not have had the faith in LJ to sort the financial mess NP has been restricted by over the past two seasons

[Oh Louie louie]

Not being disrespectful to gj, but how many good seasons did he have at this level 1 ? 

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, phantom said:

I would think that we would all agree if NP had taken over at the time LJ did with his financial backing etc he would have probably done as well

I certainly would not have had the faith in LJ to sort the financial mess NP has been restricted by over the past two seasons

Your opinion, not sure I agree with your first line. No one knows what would have happened had we appointed Pearson when we did Johnson. If you assume all else would remain the same in your alt universe then Ashton is still there spending the cash and running up the wages/amortisation bill. Maybe we don't sign Abraham, maybe we sign someone else. 

I think Pearson is ok, I don't think the sun shines out of his arse like some seem to. I thought Johnson left when he should have done, maybe even a little later, but I don't think he's the worst manager we've ever had like some seem to. Far from it.

I just find it funny that people run a line that because Pearson uses different language in his press conferences and has (with a lot of credit to Richard Gould) guided us through a period of austerity, there's a "gulf" in managerial quality between him and the two Johnsons. 

[Oh Louie louie]

What used to upset a lot of people where I sat in those days, was LJ getting a game, and David noble not. LJ wasn't fit to lace David's boots

[Selred]

44 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Absolutely right. LJ was a shit player and became a shit manager. It’s a real shame that we had to put up with his pre and post match waffle for so long…………….

The gulf in managerial quality between him, his father and Nige is truly vast. 

He was an average player, and an average manager.

You don't get to a Championship play off final from being a shit player or a shit manager. 

[phantom]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Your opinion, not sure I agree with your first line. No one knows what would have happened had we appointed Pearson when we did Johnson. If you assume all else would remain the same in your alt universe then Ashton is still there spending the cash and running up the wages/amortisation bill. Maybe we don't sign Abraham, maybe we sign someone else. 

I think Pearson is ok, I don't think the sun shines out of his arse like some seem to. I thought Johnson left when he should have done, maybe even a little later, but I don't think he's the worst manager we've ever had like some seem to. Far from it.

I just find it funny that people run a line that because Pearson uses different language in his press conferences and has (with a lot of credit to Richard Gould) guided us through a period of austerity, there's a "gulf" in managerial quality between him and the two Johnsons. 

All fair points and well explained, but we could flip it that many think the sun shines out of LJ because of the cup run

What many people (not specifically aimed at you) is that people don't seem to appreciate the restrictions NP has had to work with, we haven't really had a pot to piss in for the past two years, to me THIS is the season we should judge NP, even LJ didn't click straight away

4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

What used to upset a lot of people where I sat in those days, was LJ getting a game, and David noble not. LJ wasn't fit to lace David's boots

I don't blame LJ for the Hull defeat, but I am still bemused how he came on and Elliott was forced to right back, when we had a defensive player also on the bench

[Oh Louie louie]

3 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was an average player, and an average manager.

You don't get to a Championship play off final from being a shit player or a shit manager. 

Should I remind you Phil brown was manager of hull, he sums up that perfectly.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

the restrictions NP has had to work with, we haven't really had a pot to piss in for the past two years, to me THIS is the season we should judge NP

Sure, happy to agree with that. So, if he gets us to second place this season then I will absolutely agree that there's some evidence a gulf in managerial quality between him and the two Johnsons, no doubt about it if that happens. I appreciate that's not the only criteria when judging "managerial quality", but there it is.

[Selred]

Just now, Oh Louie louie said:

Should I remind you Phil brown was manager of hull, he sums up that perfectly.

Phil Brown got Hull promoted to Premier League. Again not a shit manager, but could be classed at average.

He also won manager of the month in the Premier League. If I ever won an award for being the best in the country at my job I'd be proud.

Look at some of the other frauds whose managed in the league who never achieved anything

[Oh Louie louie]

Phil brown a good manager haha

[Steve Watts]

Just now, Oh Louie louie said:

What used to upset a lot of people where I sat in those days, was LJ getting a game, and David noble not. LJ wasn't fit to lace David's boots

It's been done to death, but if he hadn't gotten injured against Watford we likely wouldn't have needed the play-offs in my opinion.  The breaking up of the LJ/Marv midfield partnership led to our worst run of results that season.  Without LJ in the team, Marv wasn't the same player.  We essentially lost two players with that injury.  LJ did the simple, unappreciated stuff that masked a lot of Marvs shortfalls, a fact that is often conveniently overlooked.

[Oh Louie louie]

Just now, Steve Watts said:

It's been done to death, but if he hadn't gotten injured against Watford we likely wouldn't have needed the play-offs in my opinion.  The breaking up of the LJ/Marv midfield partnership led to our worst run of results that season.  Without LJ in the team, Marv wasn't the same player.  We essentially lost two players with that injury.  LJ did the simple, unappreciated stuff that masked a lot of Marvs shortfalls, a fact that is often conveniently overlooked.

Nah Marv masked lees downfalls, let's have it right Marv did the simple unappreciated stuff,

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

It's been done to death, but if he hadn't gotten injured against Watford we likely wouldn't have needed the play-offs in my opinion.  The breaking up of the LJ/Marv midfield partnership led to our worst run of results that season.  Without LJ in the team, Marv wasn't the same player.  We essentially lost two players with that injury.  LJ did the simple, unappreciated stuff that masked a lot of Marvs shortfalls, a fact that is often conveniently overlooked.

I knew there was a reason I let you coach…

About to make the same point. LJ got injured against Watford. We were top at that point. In the next 7 games (before a dead rubber last day win), we lost 5, drew 1 and won 1.

I loved Marv. But to pretend that LJ wasn’t integral to a side that nearly went up (and we probably would have if he’d stayed fit) and therefore by definition couldn’t have been a shit championship player is one eyed, myopic bullshit.

[italian dave]

16 hours ago, italian dave said:

There’s certainly no denying how obsessed with LJ some City fans are.

No fewer than three of the top 7 threads on our football forum at the moment are talking about a manager who left us more than three years ago.

I rest my case…….

[Steve Watts]

1 minute ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Nah Marv masked lees downfalls, let's have it right Marv did the simple unappreciated stuff,

So the reason we, and Marv. entered our worst run of form when LJ was injured was..........?

Let's not romanticise things too much. Marv, as revered as he was and loved by all, couldn't pass a ball to save his life.

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Nah Marv masked lees downfalls, let's have it right Marv did the simple unappreciated stuff,

Nonsense. I’m not getting into ‘shortfalls’ - they were both good players. 
But it was LJ who did the simple unappreciated stuff in that pairing. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Steve he made the pfa team, that does indicate Marv could pass,

[johnheadbcfc]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Steve he made the pfa team, that does indicate Marv could pass,

Johnson made the squad that made a play off final and almost won the league itself. Not saying he's iniesta but you can't be "shit" and get into a promotion chasing team all season 

[Oh Louie louie]

LJ tackling and tracking back? What planet are these two on

[CyderHead92]

I see Phil Brown as the shittest manager to gain promotion to the premier league. I raise you Ian Holloway. Enough said!

[Oh Louie louie]

Marv won the ball back when lee lost it, lets be honest here, to suggest it was the other way around is insane

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Marv won the ball back when lee lost it, lets be honest here, to suggest it was the other way around is insane

And yet, when LJ wasn’t in the side, for that run at the end of the season, and by your definition Marv didn’t have to win the ball back from Lees mistakes, we lost 5 in 7.

Begs the question what Nick Carle was doing to keep Marv so occupied on other matters that we lost so many games in that run.

[Oh Louie louie]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And yet, when LJ wasn’t in the side, for that run at the end of the season, and by your definition Marv didn’t have to win the ball back from Lees mistakes, we lost 5 in 7.

Begs the question what Nick Carle was doing to keep Marv so occupied on other matters that we lost so many games in that run.

My views on Marvin are based on two years, not five games in seven, what a weak argument,, I saw LJ play for the same amount of time, not even in the same leauge, was probably around then nick carle was being scouted?

[Oh Louie louie]

I just realized what someone else said you got to be a mug to be taken in by LJ, little point in arguing I feel 

[Silvio Dante]

11 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

My views on Marvin are based on two years, not five games in seven, what a weak argument,, I saw LJ play for the same amount of time, not even in the same leauge, was probably around then nick carle was being scouted?

It’s not a weak argument. I watched Marvin, I thought Marvin was great. What I can do, which you can’t, is understand that sometimes a player who isn’t popular can be integral to a team.

Just to confirm in that season:

First 38 games we got 67 points - 1.76ppg

Last 8 games we got 7 points - 0.88ppg

If for approximately 1/5 of a season you were without a certain player and you got 0.88 less ppg on average (essentially moving from promotion to relegation form), you’d suggest that player was pretty integral to the success of the team.

That it isn’t viewed that way is simply because his name is Lee Johnson.

The team that season was better - way better- than the sum of its parts (hence Byfield top scoring with 8). If you took any of them out, it may well have been the same drop off. But it was LJ, and the dropoff happened. That’s just basic facts.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Silvio Dante
The ppg on the first 38 was even better than initially calculated

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s not a weak argument. I watched Marvin, I thought Marvin was great. What I can do, which you can’t, is understand that sometimes a player who isn’t popular can be integral to a team.

Just to confirm in that season:

First 38 games we got 66 points - 1.73ppg

Last 8 games we got 7 points - 0.88ppg

If for approximately 1/5 of a season you were without a certain player and you got 0.85 less ppg on average (essentially moving from promotion to relegation form), you’d suggest that player was pretty integral to the success of the team.

Who was who said that ‘you have lies, damn lies and statistics?’

 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Who was who said that ‘you have lies, damn lies and statistics?’

 

You tell me sweetcheeks.

While you’re there maybe you can give me an alternate reason for our ppg halving that season other than an integral part of a team being injured.

[archie andrews]

27 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Marv won the ball back when lee lost it, lets be honest here, to suggest it was the other way around is insane

If marv would have been able to pass lou he never would have never graced the gate would have been prem material and yes him an lj worked as a pairing look at the results when one or the other wasn'playing.... 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

What used to upset a lot of people where I sat in those days, was LJ getting a game, and David noble not. LJ wasn't fit to lace David's boots

LJ was quiet a bland player, if you like, whereas DN was a flair player, but they didn't have the same roles in the team.

Perhaps a very loose analogy, but as the great Eric Cantona said, every team needs a water carrier, and I saw LJ as our version of Didier Deschamps and, accordingly, integral to the way the team played, whereas DN was more a lesser version of Cantona himself.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

LJ was quiet a bland player, if you like, whereas DN was a flair player, but they didn't have the same roles in the team.

 

Lee could make a killer pass - but let's face it, only when he was in space, and unthreatened by an advancing opponent.

You don't have to be big, but you do have to be strong and confident. LJ had neither those attributes when we first played him, although TBF to the man, he had got a bit more robust towards the end of his spell on the pitch for us. 

[Oh Louie louie]

People are making out LJ was a workhouse as a player, I'm amazed at this, lees role and David's role was to pass, they did play the same role actually,

[red panda]

28 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Lee could make a killer pass - but let's face it, only when he was in space, and unthreatened by an advancing opponent and the grass was the right height.

You don't have to be big, but you do have to be strong and confident. LJ had neither those attributes when we first played him, although TBF to the man, he had got a bit more robust towards the end of his spell on the pitch for us. 

 

[SecretSam]

48 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

LJ was quiet a bland player, if you like, whereas DN was a flair player, but they didn't have the same roles in the team.

Perhaps a very loose analogy, but as the great Eric Cantona said, every team needs a water carrier, and I saw LJ as our version of Didier Deschamps and, accordingly, integral to the way the team played, whereas DN was more a lesser version of Cantona himself.

I would say that LJ's role was different to Deschamps', as he was a real DMF, IIRC. Although not quite to the extent of, say, Makelele, who was the ultimate DMF

[Oh Louie louie]

And there we have it LJ compared to Didier, Phil I can see why you like LJ, you speak the same lingo

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

I would say that LJ's role was different to Deschamps', as he was a real DMF, IIRC. Although not quite to the extent of, say, Makelele, who was the ultimate DMF

Well, of course, not exactly the same player, but similar in that, whilst both were integral members of a successful team, neither were spectacular, just the cog that ensured the wheels kept on turning. 

[BanburyRed]

17 hours ago, eardun said:

This made me chuckle - post match quote from LJ:
‘I don't want to give excuses because we just weren't good enough, but the altitude seemed a bit of a problem in terms of the lads getting a breath in.‘

Be surprised if they don’t turn it around in the second leg though. 

'I don't want to makes excuses, but here's an excuse anyway...'.....

[Port Said Red]

To me Lee was what my dad used to refer to as " the available man". He was able to track the game and be there when there was no other alternative pass or to sweep up if a player was dispossessed. I seem to remember at the time of his injury that has been discussed, someone showed that our possession stats dropped by about 15% when he wasn't in the side.

Regarding the Hibs fans opinion of him, I followed their forum quite a lot last season and he has a lot of support in there, those who felt he has done a good job of redeveloping an aging squad of journeymen. Of course there were the same negative views after a defeat, as we have/had here, but it's not all against him.

[Oh Louie louie]

Does his dad recall him as the available man? He was on loan when he got sacked again debatable 

[Port Said Red]

6 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Does his dad recall him as the available man? He was on loan when he got sacked again debatable 

Sorry? I don't know what this post means. 

[Steve Watts]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

Sorry? I don't know what this post means. 

You could probably reply to most of his posts with that to be fair....

[Oh Louie louie]

No worries gent's im sure a translator will appear soon,

[Oh Louie louie]

Nobody heard LJ talk about when the whole end was singing your dad's getting sacked in the morning when he was on loan at derby? The available man laughable 

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Nobody heard LJ talk about when the whole end was singing your dad's getting sacked in the morning when he was on loan at derby? The available man laughable 

What are you talking about, I have referenced my dad not LJ's? Try reading the post.

[Oh Louie louie]

I did read it, that's why I suggested does gj remember him as the available man from his time here, I Very much doubt it

[Oh Louie louie]

I never mentioned your dad once btw

[Steve Watts]

3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

What are you talking about, I have referenced my dad not LJ's? Try reading the post.

Don't hold your breath, this would require the holy trinity of being able to read, being able to comprehend and being able to communicate....

[TDarwall]

One thing about LJ is that he was able to adapt.  Most people remember him as being the link man, lots of short 5 yard passes.  However he only became that once were in the Championship.

The season before in League 1, Bristol Boy used to write match reports on here. One of his most frequent complaints was that LJ was always looking for the Hollywood, killer pass & it often meant we lost possession.

Whatever you think of him, it's to his credit that he learned he could get away with that at Lg1 but not the Championship & he severely reigned in his passing style.

[Oh Louie louie]

Silv I suggest you remove steve watts as a coach, he's not big on football facts, and quickly resort's to trolling, just some advice 

[Steve Watts]

4 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Silv I suggest you remove steve watts as a coach, he's not big on football facts, and quickly resort's to trolling, just some advice 

"Not big on football facts" -  maybe you'd care to review and respond to Silvs post detailing the facts, and why you dispute the conclusion reached......?  You've remained strangely silent on that post....I wonder why.....?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

People are making out LJ was a workhouse as a player, I'm amazed at this, lees role and David's role was to pass, they did play the same role actually,

I find it hard to believe both points, the one you are arguing against and the one you’re arguing for.

All three of Marv, LJ and Nobel were different types of players and asked to do different things.

As a three they were a part of a collective that got us into a great position to go up.

I wouldn’t put LJ’s injury as the root cause, but it did have an impact.  Just like Adebola being responsible for a difference in how we played.

But for anyone to say LJ was crap, or words of that nature is a failure to understand team dynamics and more than likely just blaming nepotism.

 

 

For me, the one thing I’d criticise LJ of is that when becoming a manager he never realised the important of that team dynamic and maybe snobbishly didn’t recognise what Marv did for his game and could’ve done for a City midfield in his teams….if that makes sense?

[Oh Louie louie]

Steve your really losing your rag here, I can see why a couple of under nines coaches respect LJ like you and silv, that's exactly his level, no disrespect 

[Oh Louie louie]

Laugh my head off if he gets the bullet soon, some people here Will still be giving him the benefit of the doubt, guarantee it, every time this clown opens his mouth something more ridiculous comes out, how any of you respect him is beyond me 

[PHILINFRANCE]

20 minutes ago, TDarwall said:

One thing about LJ is that he was able to adapt.  Most people remember him as being the link man, lots of short 5 yard passes.  However he only became that once were in the Championship.

The season before in League 1, Bristol Boy used to write match reports on here. One of his most frequent complaints was that LJ was always looking for the Hollywood, killer pass & it often meant we lost possession.

Whatever you think of him, it's to his credit that he learned he could get away with that at Lg1 but not the Championship & he severely reigned in his passing style.

Hmmm.

 or  

But, certainly not 

[1team]

2 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Laugh my head off if he gets the bullet soon, some people here Will still be giving him the benefit of the doubt, guarantee it, every time this clown opens his mouth something more ridiculous comes out, how any of you respect him is beyond me 

Why do you care?

[Oh Louie louie]

3 minutes ago, 1team said:

Why do you care?

Hmm it's hardly like ive been told he's the best thing since sliced bread on this thread, be some more good debates

[Silvio Dante]

12 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Steve your really losing your rag here, I can see why a couple of under nines coaches respect LJ like you and silv, that's exactly his level, no disrespect 

I think first off, decouple LJ the player from LJ the coach. You’re all over the place here and if you want to make a coherent argument you’re not going the right way around it.

FWIW LJ the player wasn’t exceptional- but nobody ever said he was. He wasn’t, however, shit. That’s proven by the fact he was an integral (and whether you like it or not, he was and the stats prove he was) part of the most successful side at this level in the last 50 years.

As a coach, what I’d like about LJ the player are a few things - it’s been pointed out how he positively affected our possession stats and adapted his game, but what would endear him to me most is that he made the best of the ability he had. Naturally was that below Noble? Yep, course it was. Noble, by his own consensus, and as memorably highlighted by Gazza, had it all but didn’t work hard enough. One of the basics (and side note - don’t disparage under 9s coaches or any coaches who do things voluntarily) that I teach all my teams is that hard work comes first, and someone who works for a team at 100% of the effort will always be a better choice than someone who coasts at 80% because they’re naturally better.

That’s what that GJ side was - it was a side who worked exceptionally hard and left it on the pitch every game - as I said, greater than the sum of its parts.  And LJ was integral to that. His natural ability level was probably L1 but he made himself a championship top four player (in that system, in that side).

That you can’t, or refuse to acknowledge that does - yeah - make me want @Steve Watts as a coach over someone who thinks like you appear to.

Plus, Steve’s bigger than me.

As for LJ the manager - again been done to death but his Brentism doesn’t help him. His greatest strength (he thinks a lot about the game) is also his greatest weakness (he thinks too much). In the 17/18 he hit on a great system and played superb stuff but then he started overthinking - plus trying to play Fam who didn’t fit and Diony/Kent who were crap. Bizarrely, that side were also greater than the sum of its parts because of how hard they worked. If you look at a few of the little things he did (Flint wide on GK, that WBA game), when it went right it went very right but when it went wrong, his need to overthink and it spiralling from one selection to another meant he had losing streaks. As a manager he probably is in the wrong job - as a coach I think he’d be very good.

But I find it hard to have the vitriol you do to a man who served the club well as a player and manager. And in a very incoherent and scattergun way at that.

(Btw this response is more respect than you deserve for that last comment. I coach under 12s).
 

[Steve Watts]

22 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Steve your really losing your rag here, I can see why a couple of under nines coaches respect LJ like you and silv, that's exactly his level, no disrespect 

Losing my rag?  Nah....

Mildly amused by you? Yep.

And I note that you still have not addressed SD's post....

No-one is claiming he's the messiah, but to essentially consider him the antichrist, which is how it comes across, is just bizarre.

[1team]

9 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Hmm it's hardly like ive been told he's the best thing since sliced bread on this thread, be some more good debates

Trouble is you'll start to sound like the nutcase who only comes on here to slag his dad off. LJ was average as a manager some highs, some lows but mainly average. As a player he played a part in the most successful City team of the last 20 years and probably got more games than he should because DN was a pisshead!

Edited July 28, 2023 by 1team

[Oh Louie louie]

3 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Losing my rag?  Nah....

Mildly amused by you? Yep.

And I note that you still have not addressed SD's post....

No-one is claiming he's the messiah, but to essentially consider him the antichrist, which is how it comes across, is just bizarre.

No point like I said anyone who thinks ljs a good manager, or was a industrial like player, like you, how can you argue that? 

[Robbored]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me, the one thing I’d criticise LJ of is that when becoming a manager he never realised the important of that team dynamic and maybe snobbishly didn’t recognise what Marv did for his game and could’ve done for a City midfield in his teams….if that makes sense?

Marv was king pin of that team. He provided the power and grit. Noble (when GJ played him) was a very gifted player with terrific skills who could and did create something out of nothing, something of a luxury player. LJ was bang average who to me made very little impact.

Hartley was another very decent and influential midfielder of that era but GJ sometimes left him out to accommodate for his little boy……….

[Oh Louie louie]

And im mildly amused by two under 12 coaches attitude's to say thel least, hardly Clough and Taylor 

[Red Exile]

Well I rather liked LJ as a player, I agree that he was a key player in that play-off side. It is, however, unfortunate for LJ's reputation that the overwhelming number of his appearances were in teams picked by his Dad. That said his Dad knew a thing or two about how to build a team, a serial winner.

But I can't believe that posters I respect on here are favourably comparing LJ as a manager to Nigel Pearson...one has won literally nothing but the Papa Johns - zero promotions in 500 matches in charge, the other - in barely a hundred more games - has achieved quite a bit. The circumstances of their tenures at City could scarcely be more different. Pearson has been brought in to clear up a mess, rebuild, and has started by laying foundations. SL bet the house on LJ, showering gifts in increasingly desperate efforts to prove that his protege was the next big thing, all in vain. Still, LJ is, as many have said, the past and gradually disappearing - like his managerial career. Pearson is the present - the future looks brighter, bring on August 5th!

[Steve Watts]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Hartley was another very decent and influential midfielder of that era but GJ sometimes left him out to accommodate for his little boy……….

I completely agree Paul Hartley was a far better player....  However 36 of his 40 appearances were in the starting line-up, so that last comment's a bit of a stretch......

[Silvio Dante]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s not a weak argument. I watched Marvin, I thought Marvin was great. What I can do, which you can’t, is understand that sometimes a player who isn’t popular can be integral to a team.

Just to confirm in that season:

First 38 games we got 67 points - 1.76ppg

Last 8 games we got 7 points - 0.88ppg

If for approximately 1/5 of a season you were without a certain player and you got 0.88 less ppg on average (essentially moving from promotion to relegation form), you’d suggest that player was pretty integral to the success of the team.

That it isn’t viewed that way is simply because his name is Lee Johnson.

The team that season was better - way better- than the sum of its parts (hence Byfield top scoring with 8). If you took any of them out, it may well have been the same drop off. But it was LJ, and the dropoff happened. That’s just basic facts.

 

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Marv was king pin of that team. He provided the power and grit. Noble (when GJ played him) was a very gifted player with terrific skills who could and did create something out of nothing, something of a luxury player. LJ was bang average who to me made very little impact.

Hartley was another very decent and influential midfielder of that era but GJ sometimes left him out to accommodate for his little boy……….

And there is OtIb in a nutshell. A proven statistical analysis of the impact made by a player, against a person who thinks he “made very little impact” but can’t quantify that and holds a grudge against GJ for making him soil himself in his office.

Robbo, I’ll ask you again as you appear to have missed the point old bean.

If LJ didn’t make an impact, in that team, then why upon him getting injured did we oscillate from having been in promotion form for the 80% of the season when he was in the team, to relegation form for the 20% when he wasn’t.

Take your time champ. You’ve got this.

[PHILINFRANCE]

10 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

And im mildly amused by two under 12 coaches attitude's to say thel least, hardly Clough and Taylor 

For clarity, I was laughing at you, rather than with you.