Lee Johnson

[Oh Louie louie]

No need for clarity Phil im glad I made you laugh, another way of looking at it is he who laughs last last longest no

[Oh Louie louie]

I was going out to Phil in France laughed at me, and clarified it, I mean where can i show my face now, probably just get a few cans, some patronising people on here lately 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Losing my rag?  Nah....

Mildly amused by you? Yep.

And I note that you still have not addressed SD's post....

No-one is claiming he's the messiah, but to essentially consider him the antichrist, which is how it comes across, is just bizarre.

As LJ himself would say “it’s the yin and Yang” of it!!!

[Leveller]

24 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

 

And there is OtIb in a nutshell. A proven statistical analysis of the impact made by a player, against a person who thinks he “made very little impact” but can’t quantify that and holds a grudge against GJ for making him soil himself in his office.

Robbo, I’ll ask you again as you appear to have missed the point old bean.

If LJ didn’t make an impact, in that team, then why upon him getting injured did we oscillate from having been in promotion form for the 80% of the season when he was in the team, to relegation form for the 20% when he wasn’t.

Take your time champ. You’ve got this.

Robbored is not strong on facts and is also vastly hypocritical. He seems to have forgotten the positive assessment he made of LJ just a few weeks before he left. He just can’t resist a bandwagon.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 minute ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I was going out to Phil in France laughed at me, and clarified it, I mean where can i show my face now, probably just get a few cans, some patronising people on here lately 

You refer to ‘patronising people’ on here.

Out of curiosity, if you had to choose an adjective to describe your disparaging comments about our ‘would be Clough and Taylor’, self confessed volunteer football coaches for young  boys, which word would you choose?

[Oh Louie louie]

Phil you are the biggest shit stirrer on this site, yeah they got mouthy with me, i think you conviently forgot that, and i told them how I view them, coaching 9 year olds, not wordly wise, 

[italian dave]

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think first off, decouple LJ the player from LJ the coach. You’re all over the place here and if you want to make a coherent argument you’re not going the right way around it.

FWIW LJ the player wasn’t exceptional- but nobody ever said he was. He wasn’t, however, shit. That’s proven by the fact he was an integral (and whether you like it or not, he was and the stats prove he was) part of the most successful side at this level in the last 50 years.

As a coach, what I’d like about LJ the player are a few things - it’s been pointed out how he positively affected our possession stats and adapted his game, but what would endear him to me most is that he made the best of the ability he had. Naturally was that below Noble? Yep, course it was. Noble, by his own consensus, and as memorably highlighted by Gazza, had it all but didn’t work hard enough. One of the basics (and side note - don’t disparage under 9s coaches or any coaches who do things voluntarily) that I teach all my teams is that hard work comes first, and someone who works for a team at 100% of the effort will always be a better choice than someone who coasts at 80% because they’re naturally better.

That’s what that GJ side was - it was a side who worked exceptionally hard and left it on the pitch every game - as I said, greater than the sum of its parts.  And LJ was integral to that. His natural ability level was probably L1 but he made himself a championship top four player (in that system, in that side).

That you can’t, or refuse to acknowledge that does - yeah - make me want @Steve Watts as a coach over someone who thinks like you appear to.

Plus, Steve’s bigger than me.

As for LJ the manager - again been done to death but his Brentism doesn’t help him. His greatest strength (he thinks a lot about the game) is also his greatest weakness (he thinks too much). In the 17/18 he hit on a great system and played superb stuff but then he started overthinking - plus trying to play Fam who didn’t fit and Diony/Kent who were crap. Bizarrely, that side were also greater than the sum of its parts because of how hard they worked. If you look at a few of the little things he did (Flint wide on GK, that WBA game), when it went right it went very right but when it went wrong, his need to overthink and it spiralling from one selection to another meant he had losing streaks. As a manager he probably is in the wrong job - as a coach I think he’d be very good.

But I find it hard to have the vitriol you do to a man who served the club well as a player and manager. And in a very incoherent and scattergun way at that.

(Btw this response is more respect than you deserve for that last comment. I coach under 12s).
 

Post of the week, SD. Could not agree more.

I think the other way in which his overthinking evidenced itself was when he had too many options to choose from. The sheer number, and the fact that there seemed no coherent plan in who we bought - in terms of a style of play - became a problem. Whether that was down to him or to Ashton we’ll never know and we’ll probably always debate.

But as you have said, his record as a player speaks for itself. And as a manager his record was objectively none too shabby either. For people to describe that as “shit” probably says more about the them than it does about LJ.

And, absolutely: anyone who’s served the club in the way that he has, whatever you may think of his personality, style, even his achievements or underachievements - certainly doesn’t deserve that sort of vitriol.

[Robbored]

36 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Robbo, I’ll ask you again as you appear to have missed the point old bean.

If LJ didn’t make an impact, in that team, then why upon him getting injured did we oscillate from having been in promotion form for the 80% of the season when he was in the team, to relegation form for the 20% when he wasn’t.

Take your time champ. You’ve got this.

I watched every game at AG that season (as I do every season) and I honestly can’t remember LJ ever making a telling contribution apart from when he scored a goal. The midfield players that impressed me were Marv, Noble and Hartley. Marv in particular was the best of them all with his drive and power.

I remember when he got injured at Home Park on a rainy night and had to be substituted and my heart sank. Losing him was a such a blow.

I’m guessing that LJ played in that game but I can’t actually remember.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I watched every game at AG that season (as I do every season) and I honestly can’t remember LJ ever making a telling contribution apart from when he scored a goal. The midfield players that impressed me were Marv, Noble and Hartley. Marv in particular was the best of them all with his drive and power.

I remember when he got injured at Home Park on a rainy night and had to be substituted and my heart sank. Losing him was a such a blow.

I’m guessing that LJ played in that game but I can’t actually remember.

Old bean.

Hartley didn’t play for us in that season.

Other than that….

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I watched every game at AG that season (as I do every season) and I honestly can’t remember LJ ever making a telling contribution apart from when he scored a goal. The midfield players that impressed me were Marv, Noble and Hartley. Marv in particular was the best of them all with his drive and power.

I remember when he got injured at Home Park on a rainy night and had to be substituted and my heart sank. Losing him was a such a blow.

I’m guessing that LJ played in that game but I can’t actually remember.

Precisely because he did all the simple, unappreciated, unnoticed stuff. Which is where this all started.

I loved Marv too. And his drives and his power were the things that did get noticed. But they complement each other. You don’t have to like one and dislike the other, it’s not a competition. Neither is as good without the other. 

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Phil you are the biggest shit stirrer on this site, yeah they got mouthy with me, i think you conviently forgot that, and i told them how I view them, coaching 9 year olds, not wordly wise, 

Can you show me where I got mouthy with you (as opposed to disagreeing with you on a forum which is kind of the thing that happens here). If you can, and it predates the abusive nature re coaching, I’m more than happy to apologise. If you can’t, I’m sure you’ll do me the courtesy of the same.

That’s what I’d tell my 9/12/whatever year olds to do….

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Precisely because he did all the simple, unappreciated, unnoticed stuff. Which is where this all started.

You’re referring to Cole Skuse with that comment.

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

You’re referring to Cole Skuse with that comment.

Funnily enough, I very very nearly said “…like Cole Skuse….” when I wrote that. I even started to type it and then thought no let’s not bring another controversy into it!

But, yes, exactly. There was another player who did the simple, unnoticed things - and who was often very much under appreciated - just like LJ! 

[Chairman Mao]

Marvin Elliot put himself about and chipped in with a few goals. But technically and tactically LJ was ahead of him. He was an unfussy but useful player with a good first touch and decent ball retention capabilities. 

[phantom]

5 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Sure, happy to agree with that. So, if he gets us to second place this season then I will absolutely agree that there's some evidence a gulf in managerial quality between him and the two Johnsons, no doubt about it if that happens. I appreciate that's not the only criteria when judging "managerial quality", but there it is.

Impossible to compare at two completely different stages of the club, players available, budget etc available 

We may as well compare who has finished the highest position managing any team 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

Impossible to compare at two completely different stages of the club, players available, budget etc available 

We may as well compare who has finished the highest position managing any team 

Sure, but I wasn't the one who started to compare. Neither were you, it was @Robbored and his argument/memory is being ably dismantled by others.

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Sure, but I wasn't the one who started to compare. Neither were you, it was @Robbored and his argument/memory is being ably dismantled by others.

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I watched every game at AG that season (as I do every season) and I honestly can’t remember LJ ever making a telling contribution apart from when he scored a goal. The midfield players that impressed me were Marv, Noble and Hartley. Marv in particular was the best of them all with his drive and power.

I remember when he got injured at Home Park on a rainy night and had to be substituted and my heart sank. Losing him was a such a blow.

I’m guessing that LJ played in that game but I can’t actually remember.

Without being rude or critical, that probably sums up how you might watch a game…the focus on the end action, not what happened to get there.

Thats not a problem, we all watch games differently, and there is no right or wrong way to watch a game.

As much as there maybe was some nepotism between father and son, I still don’t think Gary would’ve picked his son as much as he did if it was detrimental.  He might have had some blinkers on, it might’ve influenced how his teams played, but his players would’ve soon let him know if they thought Lee was shit and not worthy of his place.

I’m very mixed on LJ, but as Silvio said, he was an integral part of a team that almost went up automatically.  I don’t think a team like Bristol City at that time could carry any player.

 

For all of us that like Cotts, you could draw a comparison with Wade Elliott in 15/16….we missed that player to do the simple stuff, to give and goes, keep the ball moving, etc.  LJ did that.

It is a player-type that most City / football fans under appreciate….yet so many pro managers have them in their teams.

What does that tell us?

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

And it's all about opinions.

 

It's just that some opinions are well balanced, some are bang average, and some are just shit.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

But don’t be surprised when others saw very different and importantly provide more than just opinion to back that up.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

Sweetheart.

As per your last post, you saw Paul Hartiey play for us in a season where he was romping round Celtic Park every other week and had never touched our kit.

Excuse me if, even setting your personal prejudices over the Johnson’s aside, you’re not the most reliable witness.

Or were you not only not able to hear on the Dolman that season, but you also couldn’t see the pitch?

 

[SuperDziek]

14 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

quantify bang average. Do you mean he was a bang average championship midfielder?

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But don’t be surprised when others saw very different and importantly provide more than just opinion to back that up.

Surprised?       
 

It’s what I expect virtually all the time Dave.

Edited July 28, 2023 by Robbored

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, SuperDziek said:

quantify bang average. Do you mean he was a bang average championship midfielder?

Not Championship standard imo. I think he’d have struggled to get into Bath Citys first 11 - unless his dad was manager of course.

[SuperDziek]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Not Championship standard imo. I think he’d have struggled to get into Bath Citys first 11 - unless his dad was manager of course.

Good grief.

[CodeRed]

23 minutes ago, italian dave said:

And it's all about opinions.

 

It's just that some opinions are well balanced, some are bang average, and some are just shit.

Well they do say opinions are like arseholes.....everybody has one.

A certain poster even expresses the former through the latter 

[Gazred]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Surprised?       
 

It’s what I expect virtually all the time Dave.

That's because you are usually either trolling or being deliberately obstinate in the face of facts,. The last few pages are testimony to that.

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, Gazred said:

That's because you are usually either trolling or being deliberately obstinate in the face of facts,. The last few pages are testimony to that.

It’s getting boring now Gazred…………..

[Slacker]

Just now, Robbored said:

It’s getting boring now Gazred…………..

It certainly is!

[Leveller]

Just now, Robbored said:

It’s getting boring now Gazred…………..

Let’s be honest, it was boring when you started.

[Gazred]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

It’s getting boring now Gazred…………..

You did start fishing early today RR!

Bowls not on?

[MC RISK77]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Without being rude or critical, that probably sums up how you might watch a game…the focus on the end action, not what happened to get there.

Thats not a problem, we all watch games differently, and there is no right or wrong way to watch a game.

As much as there maybe was some nepotism between father and son, I still don’t think Gary would’ve picked his son as much as he did if it was detrimental.  He might have had some blinkers on, it might’ve influenced how his teams played, but his players would’ve soon let him know if they thought Lee was shit and not worthy of his place.

I’m very mixed on LJ, but as Silvio said, he was an integral part of a team that almost went up automatically.  I don’t think a team like Bristol City at that time could carry any player.

 

For all of us that like Cotts, you could draw a comparison with Wade Elliott in 15/16….we missed that player to do the simple stuff, to give and goes, keep the ball moving, etc.  LJ did that.

It is a player-type that most City / football fans under appreciate….yet so many pro managers have them in their teams.

What does that tell us?

Spot on post Dave and reflects my thoughts on LJ as a player, the role he played in that team that got to the play off final meant he was never a regular 8 or 9 out of ten stand out performer, but he kept possession very well and was extremely busy and hard working in the space between the final thirds

[Leveller]

20 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Spot on post Dave and reflects my thoughts on LJ as a player, the role he played in that team that got to the play off final meant he was never a regular 8 or 9 out of ten stand out performer, but he kept possession very well and was extremely busy and hard working in the space between the final thirds

In my memory he tended to sit deep in the midfield, picking the ball up off the CBs and spreading it simply to get us moving. Not unlike, indeed, Skuse  and later, Pack. The occasional Hollywood diagonal went astray, but not that often.

At the time he got dogs abuse from many around me, which I didn’t understand. He wasn’t a star but he was a very dependable cog in the machine.

[MC RISK77]

2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

In my memory he tended to sit deep in the midfield, picking the ball up off the CBs and spreading it simply to get us moving. Not unlike, indeed, Skuse  and later, Pack. The occasional Hollywood diagonal went astray, but not that often.

At the time he got dogs abuse from many around me, which I didn’t understand. He wasn’t a star but he was a very dependable cog in the machine.

Absolutely and I had the same sat around me as well 

[Out of his pie crust]

Lee Johnson won me a nice chunk of cash in ‘08 scoring first away at Southampton so he is an absolute legend in my eyes 

[Cityboy1954]

On 05/06/2023 at 16:00, Davefevs said:

On transfer fees alone, but when you add in loan fees, the huge wage increase, etc….it starts to seriously undermine the “bollocks” that is “net spend”.  That’s not aimed at you btw, just generally “net spend” is a poor metric for deriving success in the transfer market.

Not forgetting marley watkins mustave been a brown envelope involved there

[Robbored]

4 hours ago, Leveller said:

In my memory he tended to sit deep in the midfield, picking the ball up off the CBs and spreading it simply to get us moving. Not unlike, indeed, Skuse  and later, Pack. The occasional Hollywood diagonal went astray, but not that often.

Hmm……strange that I hardly remember him at all. To me he was anonymous. The players that I do remember clearly from that era are Marv, Noble, Hartley and the ever consistent Cole Skuse. Four excellent midfielders.

To me LJ wasn’t near any of them.

[Leveller]

9 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Hmm……strange that I hardly remember him at all. To me he was anonymous. The players that I do remember clearly from that era are Marv, Noble, Hartley and the ever consistent Cole Skuse. Four excellent midfielders.

To me LJ wasn’t near any of them.

Very strange, since in the playoff season in question he made 40 appearances- far more than Skuse. And as has been pointed out, Hartley wasn’t even at BCFC then. 

[Oh Louie louie]

The second leg against the Andorran minnows is coming, after the Blackpool debacle the weekend, where Hibs took thousand's I sense patience is wearing thin, could be sacked before a ball kicked in the leauge,

[Big C]

On 27/07/2023 at 18:13, petehinton said:

Hibernian have just lost their ECL qualifier to a team from Andorra. Some Hibs fans on Twitter saying it’s the worst result in their modern history. Do a good thing, followed up something terrible, seems to sum up LJ’s managerial career. 

managed to turn it around tonight though

[eardun]

6 minutes ago, Big C said:

managed to turn it around tonight though

Big time! 6-1 with 8 mins to go. 

[Kid in the Riot]

On 31/07/2023 at 16:09, Oh Louie louie said:

The second leg against the Andorran minnows is coming, after the Blackpool debacle the weekend, where Hibs took thousand's I sense patience is wearing thin, could be sacked before a ball kicked in the leauge,

No chance.

[Davefevs]

Hibs Inter the next round

[And Its Smith]

Up the Hibs. Up the LJ

[RedLionLad]

On 28/07/2023 at 16:36, Robbored said:

Ex - it’s my opinion that LJ was a bang average player largely carried by Marv, Hartley, Skuse and Noble. Stats mean nothing - I’m relaying what I actually saw. ……….

Although you willingly admit to not seeing what was being played in front of you.

Stats are accurate, your eyesight isn’t 

[petehinton]

2-0 down at home in their first league, made a double sub after 20 mins. Oh Lee

[Club and Country]

4 minutes ago, petehinton said:

2-0 down at home in their first league, made a double sub after 20 mins. Oh Lee

He ain't lasting long this season is he 

[Jose]

7 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

He ain't lasting long this season is he 

Where the hell do you go after that joke of a league? 

[Bristol Oil Services]

59 minutes ago, Jose said:

Where the hell do you go after that joke of a league? 

League One

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

Where the hell do you go after that joke of a league? 

Based on his post match press conferences, he could make a good career as a Stanley Unwin tribute act (one for the oldies) 

[slartibartfast]

6 hours ago, pongo88 said:

Based on his post match press conferences, he could make a good career as a Stanley Unwin tribute act (one for the oldies) 

Ah, a deep thorkus and a trickley how down the tabloders to the dungeymost.....deep folly !

[Riaz]

On 28/07/2023 at 12:31, Silvio Dante said:

It’s not a weak argument. I watched Marvin, I thought Marvin was great. What I can do, which you can’t, is understand that sometimes a player who isn’t popular can be integral to a team.

Just to confirm in that season:

First 38 games we got 67 points - 1.76ppg

Last 8 games we got 7 points - 0.88ppg

If for approximately 1/5 of a season you were without a certain player and you got 0.88 less ppg on average (essentially moving from promotion to relegation form), you’d suggest that player was pretty integral to the success of the team.

That it isn’t viewed that way is simply because his name is Lee Johnson.

The team that season was better - way better- than the sum of its parts (hence Byfield top scoring with 8). If you took any of them out, it may well have been the same drop off. But it was LJ, and the dropoff happened. That’s just basic facts.

Yep.

LJ was key to how we played that season - he would take the ball off the back four, especially jamie mccombe and start attacks and get us playing.

When he got injured, we missed that link. And mccombe and the rest of the back four, constantly lumped the ball down field aimlessy.

[Riaz]

On 28/07/2023 at 16:04, Robbored said:

I watched every game at AG that season (as I do every season) and I honestly can’t remember LJ ever making a telling contribution apart from when he scored a goal. The midfield players that impressed me were Marv, Noble and Hartley. Marv in particular was the best of them all with his drive and power.

I remember when he got injured at Home Park on a rainy night and had to be substituted and my heart sank. Losing him was a such a blow.

I’m guessing that LJ played in that game but I can’t actually remember.

LJ, particularly the 07-08 season, did the simple things well and you only realised how important he was, once he got injured.

You may under-rate him taking the ball off the back four and get play going - and so did i - but the results spoke for themselves.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

LJ, particularly the 07-08 season, did the simple things well and you only realised how important he was, once he got injured.

You may under-rate him taking the ball off the back four and get play going - and so did i - but the results spoke for themselves.

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

[Riaz]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Hartley didnt play for us that season - and Noble, as talented as he was - Wasnt the fittest.

LJ wasnt as talented, but he was reliable and performed a job for the team - especially that season

[frenchred]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Hartley-Another player who has got better and better the longer he hadn't played for us!

Was only here for one season and grossly over rated

[Wedontplayinblue]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Imagine trying to use facts and still getting it wrong. 

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, Riaz said:

Hartley didnt play for us that season - and Noble, as talented as he was - Wasnt the fittest.

LJ wasnt as talented, but he was reliable and performed a job for the team - especially that season

Indeed- Hartley’s only season with us was 2 years later than this & by the time he arrived Noble had already left.

The “pretty useful” strikers were ones where no individual scored more than 8…

He’s getting all confused again.

[PHILINFRANCE]

5 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Robbo, you are probably quite correct to say that LJ only played a ‘minor part’ in our playoff season, but it was, nevertheless, a very important minor part and, indeed, was integral to the way we played.

We didn’t really have any standout stars, and certainly didn’t have a 20 goal a season forward - from memory Byfield was our top scorer with 8?, and our goal difference was either + or - 1.

But we had a team, a team that was far greater than its parts, and LJ was integral to and a very important part of that team, playing the ‘minor’ part that ensured all the other parts kept working, as was witnessed when he got injured.

Finally, whilst he was a fine player, Paul Hartley was not a member of our playoff season team.

[robinforlife2]

I think Robbored is getting Hartley and Carle mixed up.

There is no doubt, Noble and Carle were more technically talented players than Johnson and would be get yourself out your seat type players, but I will say it again, as I've said before. The reason we didn't get promoted automatically was Lee Johnson got injured. LJ as a player had exceptional vision, he was on a different wave length to a lot of our players. He is a brilliant reader of the game, and he knew how to do the simple things, he could see how the game moved, and he was very much a playmaker who linked defence to midfield, and brought players into a game. He got a lot of stick for being small or the managers son, but we missed him massively in those games he missed when the wheels fell off in our final 11 matches that season. 

Johnson could see things other players couldn't, he done a lot of the hard work, you don't get praise or noticed for, but when he wasn't there, the other players didn't have that cog that made things click together. 

Regardless of how you see his tenure as our manager, I doubt many with a brain, would not appreciate what he brought to the pitch as a player, and how crucially important he was to us in that 07/08 season. Had he not got injured, I have no doubt, we wouldn't have lost a couple of those games we did, and may have got a win out of a couple of the draws and we would have gone up automatically, we lost more than 5pts without him in those matches. 

[robinforlife2]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Strikers like Jevons, Byfield, Trundle, Brooker and Adebola who amassed a total of 22 goals between them ? McIndoe, who was a midfielder scored 7, and Scotty and Noble got 3 each. 

Jevons was a bit part player, Adebola came in to cover Brooker being injured in January and Trundle and Byfield led the line who had 12 goals between them.

Those are not the stats of "pretty useful" strikers. 

[CodeRed]

53 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

LJ as a player had exceptional vision, he was on a different wave length to a lot of our players. He is a brilliant reader of the game, and he knew how to do the simple things, he could see how the game moved, and he was very much a playmaker who linked defence to midfield, and brought players into a game. He got a lot of stick for being small or the managerplayers into a game. He got a lot of s son, but we missed him massively in those games he missed when the wheels fell off in our final 11 matches that season. 

Johnson could see things other players couldn't, he done a lot of the hard work, you don't get praise or noticed for, but when he wasn't there, the other players didn't have that cog that made things click together. 

Regardless of how you see his tenure as our manager, I doubt many with a brain, would not appreciate what he brought to the pitch as a player, and how crucially important he was to us in that 07/08 season. Had he not got injured, I have no doubt, we wouldn't have lost a couple of those games we did, and may have got a win out of a couple of the draws and we would have gone up automatically, we lost more than 5pts without him in those matches. 

Nice to hear from you Gary, how do think Torquay will do this season.

Edited August 8, 2023 by CodeRed

[SecretSam]

16 hours ago, frenchred said:

Hartley-Another player who has got better and better the longer he hadn't played for us!

Was only here for one season and grossly over rated

See also Lee Trundle

[MarcusX]

17 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Hartley didn't play that season, Noble - as talented as he was - was mostly sub appearences if I recall

Strikers being "useful" is interesting too as I think that's where we struggled. We were very low scoring and our top scorer got 8 (though Adebola got 6 after arriving in Jan, and some important ones). The other 3 got 5,3 and 1 (Brooker obviously coming back from injury)

We were a team stronger than it's parts, that's for sure. We had a fairly strong defence and we knew how to push to the last minute.

[italian dave]

17 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ was a small fish in a big pond and he wasn’t reason that City won games - he may have played a minor part but better results were down to a solid defence, creative players like Noble and Hartley. The strikers were pretty useful as well.

Out of interest, which strikers are you thinking of specifically? 

[robinforlife2]

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Nice to hear from you Gary, how do think Torquay will do this season.

Great mush, hopefully get promoted. Even invited Robbored to my office down here, so I can make him cry like a baby again, but he seems to be ignoring me. 

[Leveller]

11 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Great mush, hopefully get promoted. Even invited Robbored to my office down here, so I can make him cry like a baby again, but he seems to be ignoring me. 

With a bit of luck he’s gone to an appointment at the opticians.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Strikers like Jevons, Byfield, Trundle, Brooker and Adebola who amassed a total of 22 goals between them ? McIndoe, who was a midfielder scored 7, and Scotty and Noble got 3 each. 

Jevons was a bit part player, Adebola came in to cover Brooker being injured in January and Trundle and Byfield led the line who had 12 goals between them.

Those are not the stats of "pretty useful" strikers. 

Jevons went on loan early then never returned

 

[IAmNick]

Lee was injured at the end of that 07/08 season, but he still played in 3 of the last 8 games. 3 of the 5 we lost were also against Wolves, Stoke, and Sheff Utd who were all either in or around the top 6 (or 2 in Stoke's case) - tough games at the end of the season. I think it's too simplistic and too few games to point to Lee being in or out of the team as meaningful there.

The Adebola thing - yes our style changed when he signed... and we were extremely effective as a result. After he signed on Jan 30th, we only lost once in the next 10 games, ending W 4, D 5, L1. Not exactly a disasterous change of style then? I liked Adebola and thought people unfairly had little patience with him on here.

Lee was as divisive then as he is now, if not more so. I've never heard cheering at our own sub before as I have when he was taken off once - which was quite unfair on him. It wasn't his fault he was picked, or that his dad was the manager.

My view is that he always tried, but was a pretty limited footballer. He drove me mad with his tiny dinks to nobody from free kicks, not putting a tackle in, and slow recycling of possession. I didn't like him at all - but I do accept he was a reasonable and quite important player for us at that time, albeit one I thought was also limiting us as a team big time.

I didn't find him enjoyable or exciting to watch, but that said I also don't hate him and I don't want him to fail as a manager... although it is slightly entertaining for some reason, I'll admit.

Edited August 8, 2023 by IAmNick

[LondonBristolian]

I think the fundamental point with 2007/2008 was we had a tight team that functioned really well as a unit and everyone had a clear part in that. Both Lee Johnson and Marvin Elliott - and the way they worked in partnership - was essential to that. Johnson wasn't the flashiest or the best midfielder but he knew his role in the game plan and executed it extremely well. It's no coincidence that neither Johnson nor Elliott hit the same standars as we moved away from a structure that was less built around their strengths.

Johnson was a player who knew what he could do and knew that he couldn't do and the system got the best out of that. An objectively "better" midfielder could easily have been far less effective on the team and we had seasons where we hit far lower standards with theoretically better players.