Lee Johnson

[Oh Louie louie]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Strikers like Jevons, Byfield, Trundle, Brooker and Adebola who amassed a total of 22 goals between them ? McIndoe, who was a midfielder scored 7, and Scotty and Noble got 3 each. 

Jevons was a bit part player, Adebola came in to cover Brooker being injured in January and Trundle and Byfield led the line who had 12 goals between them.

Those are not the stats of "pretty useful" strikers. 

Add enochs name to that list, yep jevons scored twice in his last game for us, in the cup

[Riaz]

11 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Lee was injured at the end of that 07/08 season, but he still played in 3 of the last 8 games. 3 of the 5 we lost were also against Wolves, Stoke, and Sheff Utd who were all either in or around the top 6 (or 2 in Stoke's case) - tough games at the end of the season. I think it's too simplistic and too few games to point to Lee being in or out of the team as meaningful there.

The Adebola thing - yes our style changed when he signed... and we were extremely effective as a result. After he signed on Jan 30th, we only lost once in the next 10 games, ending W 4, D 5, L1. Not exactly a disasterous change of style then? I liked Adebola and thought people unfairly had little patience with him on here.

Lee was as divisive then as he is now, if not more so. I've never heard cheering at our own sub before as I have when he was taken off once - which was quite unfair on him. It wasn't his fault he was picked, or that his dad was the manager.

My view is that he always tried, but was a pretty limited footballer. He drove me mad with his tiny dinks to nobody from free kicks, not putting a tackle in, and slow recycling of possession. I didn't like him at all - but I do accept he was a reasonable and quite important player for us at that time, albeit one I thought was also limiting us as a team big time.

I didn't find him enjoyable or exciting to watch, but that said I also don't hate him and I don't want him to fail as a manager... although it is slightly entertaining for some reason, I'll admit.

Totally disagree.

I did a post on here at the time. And our results suffered with Dele in the team.

May have had an inital impact - but we werent the same with him in the team the next season onwards.

He won a lot of headers, but it rarely ended up with us retaining possesion.

[IAmNick]

13 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Totally disagree.

I did a post on here at the time. And our results suffered with Dele in the team.

May have had an inital impact - but we werent the same with him in the team the next season onwards.

He won a lot of headers, but it rarely ended up with us retaining possesion.

Many other things changed the next season too - and we still finished 10th the following two seasons which is better than all but one since so it can't have been that bad.

I don't think our squad was as good as our league position showed in 07/08 - we were riding the promotion high, and that amongst other things made the team more than the sum of it's parts. We were in the auto promotion spots for 9 of the last 15 games, it was mad.

The following seasons we regressed to what you could have reasonably expected from what we had at our disposal.

[NickJ]

Have tried very hard to stay away from his thread, had many a diasgreement about LJ in the past.

Nevertheless, Robbored is getting slated, deservedly so for some things, but not deservedly for pointing out that somehow or another, Lee Johnson was constantly selected ahead of unarguably better players. 

When Johnson got injured towards the end of the 2007/08 season, Gary Johnson would have been desperate to start him in the final, but was sensible enough, after the Palace play off games, to realise that had he dropped Carle or Noble, or Elliott, and we'd lost, both Johnsons would have been hammered for it.

The travesty was the Orr injury and Gary Johnson's desperation to get his son on the pitch. The obvious substitution was Vasko on and Carey to right back. Unfortunately bringing Johnson on and moving Elliott - who let's not forget had been named as the central midfielder in the divisions team of the season - to right back was ridiculous. It took away the very essence of what had made us so difficult to beat, something which to be fair to Johnson Senior he had achieved by recognizing and bringing out previously underrated qualities from Elliott.

I'm fairly sure I'm right in saying that Gary's loyalty to his son is what was the catalyst for the incident at Plymough and ultimately cost him his job, which is a shame because after Cotterill, Johnson was the best manager we'd had since Alan Dicks.

I will never forget turning up at Barnsley following a midweek win where Johnson had been left out, to see Johnson on the pitch and Hartley on the bench. Explained by Johnson Senior as due to our "rotation policy", a phrase not heard at Bristol City before or since.

Yes he could play a short pass - usually sideways or bacwards - but thats about all he could do and you have to ask the question, when could you ever remember him making a significant cotribution. A goal, an assist, a killer pass, a goal saving tackle, a brillant cross, a mazy run, anything to make it difficult for the opposition. Being the "cog" that keeps the ball moving sideways and backwards is not that difficult and I had to laugh at one of the comments above "had exceptional vision, he was on a different wave length to a lot of our players." 

There's no way he would have played so many Championship games if his dad hadn't been manager, possibly none at all.

 

As for management, the biggest skill Lee Johnson has is promoting the "Lee Johnson" brand, and that's about it.

Have had a look at the Hibernian forums this week, and apart from the personal comments seen many times before - "David Brent", "slaverer" (apparently Scottish slang for someone who talks gibberish) - "coward" "smug" are just some of the politer ones - the talk is eaxtly as it used to be on here and indeed at Sunderland. Tactically inept. Throwing players under buses. Results not aligned with being given more money to spend that any other manager previously. Fraud.

The thing is, David Brentisms aside, he is articulate and seems capable of talking intelligent people into believing that not only is he the man for the job, but also should be given almsot unlimited funds to spend in order to do that job.

When LJ was a Bristol City player and manager it used to anger me, but now I just think, good luck to him, it's a free market economy and he's managed to achieve not only a well paid Championship playing career with extremely limited ability for that level,  but now also a well paid managerial career with extremely limited credentials.

[redysteadygo]

An accurate description of LJ's ability, playing style and skills (lack of) as far as I'm concerned. I always maintained his only involvement in a game was receiving a pass and playing it in the direction he was facing, to the nearest player, regardless of what pressure that put him under. Now if that's what you call keeping the ball moving etc then you can keep it. As for tackling he would be in the hurdle relay team with McIndoe and Sproule.

[Steve Watts]

23 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Imagine trying to use facts and still getting it wrong. 

Hey, leave him alone....he only had it pointed out to him a dozen or so times after using the "fact" initially before using it again.  Facts have never been RR's strong point, especially when the topic of conversation happens to have the surname Johnson.

[eardun]

7 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think the fundamental point with 2007/2008 was we had a tight team that functioned really well as a unit and everyone had a clear part in that. Both Lee Johnson and Marvin Elliott - and the way they worked in partnership - was essential to that. Johnson wasn't the flashiest or the best midfielder but he knew his role in the game plan and executed it extremely well. It's no coincidence that neither Johnson nor Elliott hit the same standars as we moved away from a structure that was less built around their strengths.

Johnson was a player who knew what he could do and knew that he couldn't do and the system got the best out of that. An objectively "better" midfielder could easily have been far less effective on the team and we had seasons where we hit far lower standards with theoretically better players. 

Perfectly put. 

[Leveller]

21 hours ago, Steve Watts said:

Hey, leave him alone....he only had it pointed out to him a dozen or so times after using the "fact" initially before using it again.  Facts have never been RR's strong point, especially when the topic of conversation happens to have the surname Johnson.

Intriguingly “Rob bored” wrote quite flatteringly about LJ as a manager a few weeks before he was sacked, but has since gone down a revisionist bandwagon route.

[Kid in the Riot]

Cracking result for Hibs tonight. Watched the second half and they played well. Decent chance of making the group stages now. 

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

8 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Cracking result for Hibs tonight. Watched the second half and they played well. Decent chance of making the group stages now. 

What is the format then, I thought they had Villa if they got through this tie?

[And Its Smith]

Suddenly Hibs fans love him. Fickle bunch!

[Northern Red]

41 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

What is the format then, I thought they had Villa if they got through this tie?

Yeah that's right, then winner of that tie goes into the group stage.

[prankerd]

2 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yeah that's right, then winner of that tie goes into the group stage.

No chance they beat unai emery

[Lrrr]

Another cracker of a quote, but perhaps a better method of getting it out of the player rather than laying directly into them about not giving everything 

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

LJ wasn’t the best or the worst player to wear the shirt. 
He also wasn’t the best or the worst manager we have had at BS3. 
He tried his best in both roles. 
 

Thats my opinion. 

[archie andrews]

6 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

LJ wasn’t the best or the worst player to wear the shirt. 
He also wasn’t the best or the worst manager we have had at BS3. 
He tried his best in both roles. 
 

Thats my opinion. 

Have any other managers gave us better football to watch circ aug17 to jan18 period.... Gj possibly so come on all the lj bully boys lets hear your side....... 

[Oh Louie louie]

6 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Have any other managers gave us better football to watch circ aug17 to jan18 period.... Gj possibly so come on all the lj bully boys lets hear your side....... 

Here's my side, after January two words arch, Devon loch, I'd have sacked him after the hull 5 5 game, 

[TV Tom]

On 08/08/2023 at 10:55, IAmNick said:

Lee was injured at the end of that 07/08 season, but he still played in 3 of the last 8 games. 3 of the 5 we lost were also against Wolves, Stoke, and Sheff Utd who were all either in or around the top 6 (or 2 in Stoke's case) - tough games at the end of the season. I think it's too simplistic and too few games to point to Lee being in or out of the team as meaningful there.

The Adebola thing - yes our style changed when he signed... and we were extremely effective as a result. After he signed on Jan 30th, we only lost once in the next 10 games, ending W 4, D 5, L1. Not exactly a disasterous change of style then? I liked Adebola and thought people unfairly had little patience with him on here.

Lee was as divisive then as he is now, if not more so. I've never heard cheering at our own sub before as I have when he was taken off once - which was quite unfair on him. It wasn't his fault he was picked, or that his dad was the manager.

My view is that he always tried, but was a pretty limited footballer. He drove me mad with his tiny dinks to nobody from free kicks, not putting a tackle in, and slow recycling of possession. I didn't like him at all - but I do accept he was a reasonable and quite important player for us at that time, albeit one I thought was also limiting us as a team big time.

I didn't find him enjoyable or exciting to watch, but that said I also don't hate him and I don't want him to fail as a manager... although it is slightly entertaining for some reason, I'll admit.

I remember the AG crowd booed when Russell Osman scored for us once

[IAmNick]

12 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

What on earth are you talking about, what a bizarre post.

There have been lots of valid reasons in this thread both to like and dislike aspects of both Lee's playing and managing time here if you actually cared to read.

The Trump thing? No idea what you're even on about there. If you want some reasons people dislike him then feel free to drop me a pm or post on the relevant thread in the politics bit rather than bring it here.

[Leveller]

4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

What on earth are you talking about, what a bizarre post.

There have been lots of valid reasons in this thread both to like and dislike aspects of both Lee's playing and managing time here if you actually cared to read.

The Trump thing? No idea what you're even on about there. If you want some reasons people dislike him then feel free to drop me a pm or post on the relevant thread in the politics bit rather than bring it here.

I think the basic point about the boo boys and an irrational hatred dating back to his playing days is pretty accurate, to be fair.

Not quite sure about the Trump comment! What does it even mean?

[Glen hump]

19 hours ago, Lrrr said:

Another cracker of a quote, but perhaps a better method of getting it out of the player rather than laying directly into them about not giving everything 

 

Please tell me that’s not real 

[IAmNick]

5 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

LJ was out of his depth. A league one/two manager in England, should never have gotten the job in the first place 

He's never even managed league 2 though!

He's done championship and league 1, getting decent if unspectacular finishes consistently in both. That's his level from the evidence.

[Glen hump]

23 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

Not irrational hatred from me , I just think he comes across as a complete end and a blagger 

[Glen hump]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

He's never even managed league 2 though!

He's done championship and league 1, getting decent if unspectacular finishes consistently in both. That's his level from the evidence.

He also holds the record for most consecutive defeats at Barnsley and city, he also doubled our wage bill for good measure.

[Merrick's Marvels]

31 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

Thank you Lee. Or is it Gary, Uncle Pete, Steve or Mark? Talk us through why Lee was sacked and why our current manager has had to spend 2 years treading water because our wages and business model weren't fit for purpose? 

That's rhetorical btw, please don't.

[IAmNick]

10 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

He also holds the record for most consecutive defeats at Barnsley and city, he also doubled our wage bill for good measure.

Sure, and those are negative factors to his tenure. There are positives, and negatives. He wasn't brilliant, he wasn't awful or league 2 so to say he was either just shows you have some weird positive/negative bias you can't look past imo.

As I said earlier in the thread, I didn't particular rate him as a player or a manager, but that doesn't mean I think he was garbage or league 2 level.

[Glen hump]

6 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Sure, and those are negative factors to his tenure. There are positives, and negatives. He wasn't brilliant, he wasn't awful or league 2 so to say he was either just shows you have some weird positive/negative bias you can't look past imo.

As I said earlier in the thread, I didn't particular rate him as a player or a manager, but that doesn't mean I think he was garbage or league 2 level.

I couldn’t deny it ,I can’t stand him to the point where he makes my skin crawl, for me he’s a blagger and he’s been extremely lucky to be a family friend of sl 

[Red Exile]

The passion of the LJ glee club was barely comprehensible when he was still here - when it was, I guess, conceivable that he'd turn out to be the messiah they wanted him to be. It's completely inexplicable now. I liked him as a player. Couldn't understand why he got the manager job, the wrong man at the wrong time - the only possible explanation was his closeness to the Lansdowns. He failed to deliver what we were told was his objective. He's never won a promotion with any side. Couldn't get Sunderland out of League One! He will lurk as a presence on this forum because his tenure was so consequential - blew our chances of promotion for a generation, and soured the relationship with the owner through the latter's obsession with being proved right in appointing him in the first place. 

[IAmNick]

3 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

I couldn’t deny it ,I can’t stand him to the point where he makes my skin crawl, for me he’s a blagger and he’s been extremely lucky to be a family friend of sl 

 You know it's bad when I'm defending LJ, but come on now - was he family friends with the owners of the other 4 clubs he's managed too?

2 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

He should have, L2 is his level.

I could see him ending up back in L1. I'd be surprised if he manages in L2 next but he might.

He's shown he's better than that up to this point though I think... he's been managing for 10 years now.

[Northern Red]

57 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

Evening Lee. Good win last night.

[cidercity1987]

57 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

I actually agree with this

There was a lot of good about LJ as both a player and a manager

[Glen hump]

3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

 You know it's bad when I'm defending LJ, but come on now - was he family friends with the owners of the other 4 clubs he's managed too?

I could see him ending up back in L1. I'd be surprised if he manages in L2 next but he might.

He's shown he's better than that up to this point though I think... he's been managing for 10 years now.

Don’t think so, but you can’t deny if his dad wasn’t manager he wouldn’t of kept getting new contracts, how long did he manage at other clubs, he certainly wouldn’t of got the job at city if he wasn’t friends with sl .

[cidercity1987]

1 minute ago, ChrisBW said:

What was good about his management? 

Developed players like Reid and Webster

Played brilliant football for the second half of 2017

Beat Man Utd and gave many fans their best football night ever

Absolutely nailed the 0-1 away performance 

There was a lot to love about his management overall despite the well documented downsides like very streaky and many poor home performances 

[Redtucks]

22 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Suddenly Hibs fans love him. Fickle bunch!

No different to ours!

 

[cidercity1987]

Just now, ChrisBW said:

He developed 2 players and won a league cup game, some achievements. He was hopelessly out of his depth.

This is an odd post when he took us further in the cup since the late 1980s and our highest finish except his father since when , early 1980s?

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Developed players like Reid and Webster

Played brilliant football for the second half of 2017

Beat Man Utd and gave many fans their best football night ever

Absolutely nailed the 0-1 away performance 

There was a lot to love about his management overall despite the well documented downsides like very streaky and many poor home performances 

That great football was a bit of a myth . He was forced into a change of shape due to injuries . He tinkered way too much before & after the injuries . Yes we played some very good football , for about three months . 

[The Coach]

Bottom line for me is he was given the key to the kingdom with strong financial backing like we’ve never seen before at City. Just to be a mid-table team that had no football philosophy in play that Johnson always spoke about. 

[Glen hump]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Developed players like Reid and Webster

Played brilliant football for the second half of 2017

Beat Man Utd and gave many fans their best football night ever

Absolutely nailed the 0-1 away performance 

There was a lot to love about his management overall despite the well documented downsides like very streaky and many poor home performances 

His signings overall were shocking, left us in a complete mess  Ashton and sl take big responsibility for that as well, sacked at Sunderland and not done anything of note at hibs yet 

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, Fred89 said:

They hate Johnson/Ashton and blame finances despite the money Johnson earned from his coaching and team selection on Kelly ,Brownhill, Bryan , Webster ,Flint,Kodjia and completely ignore the fact we had a world wide unforeseen Pandemic closing down the world affecting the finances of every business!

I haven’t seen such irrational hatred since Donald Trump

it all stems from the boo boys in his playing days when we’re top 2 in the championship, if you ask them why they dislike him they will lie or give you no answer and call you an idiot, just like Donald

I have no LJ playing-days bias, I saw him once live, for 40 minutes home to Watford in the 0-0 where he went off injured in 07-08.

So I’d rather criticise the “regime” rather than an individual.

But around 2016 a mate of mine asked whether SL’s sustainable financial model could see us make the PL vs the unfairness of the parachute payment clubs, so I set about really looking into finances in football.  My interest had already been piqued by reading two books, one by David Conn (The Beautiful Game) and Simon Jordan’s autobiography, which totally changed by opinion of him.

Before the pandemic, the finances were beginning to look a bit dodgy.  And I don’t mean breaking FFP, just that for the outlay and increases in costs (wages, amortisation, other) I wasn’t convinced we were quite as “world class” as we were being told.

Going back to the question posed by my mate, it started to dawn on me that two things were important:

• Academy
• Recruitment

No shit Sherlock you may cry.

And over time, we didn’t perform well enough in either of those areas.

We didn’t bring enough through the academy.  Whether they were good enough is a matter for debate, but even if they’re not, a bit of exposure can make them a sellable asset.

We recruited poorly, our hit-rate was terrible.  Thankfully, the few hits we had covered up the misses.  A “world leading recruitment set-up” we were told, “seen as the go to for other clubs”, was a laughable claim.

Part of the reason for the poor hit-rate was:

• too many players brought in meaning they couldn’t all play, therefore they couldn’t add value
• bought then loaned them
• too high fees / too high wages
• no real playing system, meaning bullet one

Basically the Webster and Kelly sales saved it from being disastrous.  Covid shone a light on it…and Covid really did was speed up the decline…and make a rebuild necessary and draw out the pain.  If you think this is all down to Covid, then I’m afraid I couldn’t disagree with you more.  I wrote on here several times pre-Covid about the warning signs.  The trajectory was worrying.

Before Mr P chimes in, I’ve used the football club accounts above, not to be devious, but because Ashton Gate Ltd numbers don’t really have any materiality or relevance to this debate.

Despite all the sales, we still lost £70m over 5 seasons of SL / Ashton’s tenure (4 of LJ / 1 of DH), or £35m of the 4 years of SL / MA / LJ.

The wage bill doubled, the amortisation went up 5-fold, other costs doubled too.  We carried on spending more and more even though income had steadied.  Basically we’d done the stadium re-fit and there’s inky so much you can sweat!

I also “we” a lot above…I should really use “they”.

LJ did some good things too, but he was part of a “regime” that was moving towards putting us in the shit.

That’s my brief summary of why I think LJ deserves criticism for the part he played…and that’s with no bias from his playing days or his dad or anything else.

As above he deserves some praise too, but for me, the above tends to outweigh it.

Happy to go into more detail if you like.  But if you’re blaming Covid you’ve missed the root cause.

Is it perfect under SL / NP / PA / Tins?  Nope.  But it is moving us forward into a far better position to achieve success.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Some good things, some bad things IMO.

Too many misses vs not enough hits in the market. Didn't often utilise suitable tactics either for many he did sign.

Sure he had a major budget by our standards but he was a very fortunate beneficiary in that regard as our income rose. Unless some think it was planned or pre-ordained.

We had not a bad Cup record at times, for 2-3 years but otoh far too much player churned and not making at least one play-off a failure especially 2017-18..at which point we would have been in a very good place because we had players with significant Cup tie type experience which is transferable to playoffs. Where we were Boxing Day 2017 we shouldn't have failed to make playoffs I believe.

Some youth came through but not like now! Squad far too big, lots of chopping and changing. Some credit for outgoing fees however but the market was rising too- which also can apply to signings btw.

By his final season the football was negative, reactive (often) and post Afobe injury and the two are linked it became one dimensional.

Probably could have managed Moore, Magnússon better and sure others can be listed, in terms of younger players who he was not great with.

[Fordy62]

I have no opinion. 

[Fordy62]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some good things, some bad things IMO.

Too many misses vs not enough hits in the market. Didn't often utilise suitable tactics either for many he did sign.

Sure he had a major budget by our standards but he was a very fortunate beneficiary in that regard as our income rose. Unless some think it was planned or pre-ordained.

We had not a bad Cup record at times, for 2-3 years but otoh far too much player churned and not making at least one play-off a failure especially 2017-18..at which point we would have been in a very good place because we had players with significant Cup tie type experience which is transferable to playoffs. Where we were Boxing Day 2017 we shouldn't have failed to make playoffs I believe.

Some youth came through but not like now! Squad far too big, lots of chopping and changing. Some credit for outgoing fees however but the market was rising too- which also can apply to signings btw.

By his final season the football was negative, reactive (often) and post Afobe injury and the two are linked it became one dimensional.

Probably could have managed Moore, Magnússon better and sure others can be listed, in terms of younger players who he was not great with.

We should probably factor in that the outgoings of Reid and Wester (credit) were considerably offset by him giving away Ayling and Freeman, both of whom proved themselves to be far better than pretty much everyone he brought in. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

51 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Developed players like Reid and Webster

Played brilliant football for the second half of 2017

Beat Man Utd and gave many fans their best football night ever

Absolutely nailed the 0-1 away performance 

There was a lot to love about his management overall despite the well documented downsides like very streaky and many poor home performances 

Developed 2 players.... out of how many???

Played brilliant football (I agree) - yes, for 3 months. What did it achieve???

He's not the only City manager to have delivered a great Cup win - Russell Osman delivered a win at Annfield, for heaven's sake. Russell Osman! And with infinitely less resources, meagre resources in fact.

Away wins, you say. As if no other City manager ever did at this level. And to what end come May every year - none.

I've found myself agreeing with lots of your posts recently but this one's bunkum kid. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[robinforlife2]

28 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

We should probably factor in that the outgoings of Reid and Wester (credit) were considerably offset by him giving away Ayling and Freeman, both of whom proved themselves to be far better than pretty much everyone he brought in. 

How much choice would Lee have had regarding Ayling after the Cheltenham situation. It always felt to me that those upstairs decided he would be leaving, as well as the others involved that day at the races, and even if LJ wanted to keep him, he wouldn't have been allowed to. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

We should probably factor in that the outgoings of Reid and Wester (credit) were considerably offset by him giving away Ayling and Freeman, both of whom proved themselves to be far better than pretty much everyone he brought in. 

Some truth there. Ayling was linked to the Cheltenham stuff wasn't he.

Freeman didn't he have some contractual issue, remind us? Was it that we sold him at final chance fo gain value or would he not sign? Can't recall.

[Fordy62]

10 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

How much choice would Lee have had regarding Ayling after the Cheltenham situation. It always felt to me that those upstairs decided he would be leaving, as well as the others involved that day at the races, and even if LJ wanted to keep him, he wouldn't have been allowed to. 

I don’t buy it. That sounds like an easy excuse for those who want to exonerate LJ. I mean, it was hardly a serious misdemeanour. LJ didn’t rate him and got rid. He was an excellent player who went onto prove he was leagues above LJ. 

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Some truth there. Ayling was linked to the Cheltenham stuff wasn't he.

Freeman didn't he have some contractual issue, remind us? Was it that we sold him at final chance fo gain value or would he not sign? Can't recall.

He got blamed for not playing the ball fast enough and LJ wasn’t a fan. Got rid for about 500k if I remember correctly and whoever he went to (QPR?) sold him for 9m. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

He got blamed for not playing the ball fast enough and LJ wasn’t a fan. Got rid for about 500k if I remember correctly and whoever he went to (QPR?) sold him for 9m. 

We offered him a new contract in January 2017.

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/freeman-offered-new-deal/

By the end of the month he was sold, cannot remember much beyond that.

Did he decline a new deal, was it wage related?

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[The Coach]

I’ll add on top also.

What gave merit for Johnson to take on the role at a Championship club during that point at Barnsley. When he had yet to achieve anything.

Wold any other Championship club at that point hired Lee Johnson? I do believe the answer to that question is no.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Anyway is there is a bit of revisionism over Freeman, or was the club/manager more at fault.

Contract wise I mean.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[chowie]

2 minutes ago, The Coach said:

I’ll add on top also.

What gave merit for Johnson to take on the role at a Championship club during that point at Barnsley. When he had yet to achieve anything.

Wold any other Championship club at that point hired Lee Johnson? I do believe the answer to that question is no.

definitely, was a huge gamble... then next up Dean 'the human' Holden when we desperately need experience. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, chowie said:

definitely, was a huge gamble... then next up Dean 'the human' Holden when we desperately need experience. 

The popular choice Hughton bombed at Nottingham Forest and may well have put us in a worse financial hole. Although a 2 year window to go up before FFP closed in you never know..

[cidercity1987]

18 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I don’t buy it. That sounds like an easy excuse for those who want to exonerate LJ. I mean, it was hardly a serious misdemeanour. LJ didn’t rate him and got rid. He was an excellent player who went onto prove he was leagues above LJ. 

 in what way did the most overrated city player in years prove he was leagues above LJ? He has barely played in the Prem if that's what you mean

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The popular choice Hughton bombed at Nottingham Forest and may well have put us in a worse financial hole. Although a 2 year window to go up before FFP closed in you never know..

Football is full of ifs and buts. But it is wholly factual that we’ve never ever seen anyone being given the level of financial freedom that LJ was, now, you can argue that it was due to Nepotism… or you can be wrong. 

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

 in what way did the most overrated city player in years prove he was leagues above LJ? He has barely played in the Prem if that's what you mean

Are you joking, or just grossly misinformed?  

[cidercity1987]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Football is full of ifs and buts. But it is wholly factual that we’ve never ever seen anyone being given the level of financial freedom that LJ was, now, you can argue that it was due to Nepotism… or you can be wrong. 

Are you joking, or just grossly misinformed?  

No, come on ... how is Freeman 'leagues above' LJ

 

[cidercity1987]

Just now, cidercity1987 said:

No, come on ... how is Freeman 'leagues above' LJ

 

When in fact he has barely played for any team above lower mid table Champ

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

No, come on ... how is Freeman 'leagues above' LJ

 

I think if you follow the thread, we’re talking about Ayling. 

[cidercity1987]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

I think if you follow the thread, we’re talking about Ayling. 

OK fine thanks. Yes he is decent, LJ was wrong on him and clearly preferred Matthews 

Freeman is the most overrated City player in years 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Football is full of ifs and buts. But it is wholly factual that we’ve never ever seen anyone being given the level of financial freedom that LJ was, now, you can argue that it was due to Nepotism… or you can be wrong. 

However yes he got the biggest budget and freedom of any City manager. Had Cotts retained 6 months more.of pragmatism perhaps higher revenue would have flowed his way too. He was very heavily indulged, was Lee Johnson.

Timing was also a friend of Lee Johnson in a way it was not for Cotts, NP.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

However yes he got the biggest budget and freedom of any City manager. Had Cotts retained 6 months more.of pragmatism perhaps higher revenue would have flowed his way too. He was very heavily indulged.

Steve Lansdown was also a friend of Lee Johnson in a way he was not for Cotts, NP.

Edited for accuracy!

[Monkeh]

Lee Johnson lives rent free in people's head,

We've had 2 managers since him he's gone,

Gwt over it

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Edited for accuracy!

Devil's advocate then, are you saying that had Cotts managed to keep us up.and stay in situ until summer 2016 he wouldn't have been backed somewhat more as revenue grew?

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

32 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

He got blamed for not playing the ball fast enough and LJ wasn’t a fan. Got rid for about 500k if I remember correctly and whoever he went to (QPR?) sold him for 9m. 

Don’t forget that it was Cotterill that said Ayling couldn’t play fullback.

[Fordy62]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Devil's advocate then, are you saying that had Cotts managed to keep us up.and stay in situ until summer 2016 he wouldn't have been backed somewhat more as revenue grew?

Genuinely, I don’t think he would have. 

Cotts wanted to sign Tomlin on loan, but was told there wasn’t the funds to do so. LJ appointed and guess what…

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Genuinely, I don’t think he would have. 

Cotts wanted to sign Tomlin on loan, but was told there wasn’t the funds to do so. LJ appointed and guess what…

Ah okay wasn't aware of that bit or had forgotten. Thanks I'll revise my views a bit.

I hope he would have backed him at minimum in line with the growth, it's the least he deserved.

NP post Scott sale will be a big test as to whether Lansdown has changed, will do the correct thing. I hope he does- think we all hope he does, NP has navigated a very difficult period for us and done it well.

[Loosey Boy]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ah okay wasn't aware of that bit or had forgotten. Thanks I'll revise my views a bit.

I hope he would have backed him at minimum in line with the growth, it's the least he deserved.

NP post Scott sale will be a big test as to whether Lansdown has changed, will do the correct thing. I hope he does- think we all hope he does, NP has navigated a very difficult period for us and done it well.

Agreed - NP deserves to be backed…..next few weeks will be interesting and quite telling

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Agreed - NP deserves to be backed…..next few weeks will be interesting and quite telling

Definitely deserves to be, they definitely will be interesting and telling.

He will expect to be backed to a reasonable level, I hope the club and NP are on the same page.

[And Its Smith]

[Riaz]

4 hours ago, ChrisBW said:

LJ was out of his depth. A league one/two manager in England, should never have gotten the job in the first place 

If he was out of his depth…

How did he take a woeful team  ijn the relegation zone and move us up the table in his first season? 
 

And then establish us as top half side?

[Riaz]

3 hours ago, The Coach said:

Bottom line for me is he was given the key to the kingdom with strong financial backing like we’ve never seen before at City. Just to be a mid-table team that had no football philosophy in play that Johnson always spoke about. 

Again this is a total myth. 
soon after joining the club had to sell kodjia for 13m… and then during his time, we kept selling his best players… and he spent the money from the sales. He actually had a negative net spend