Lee Johnson

[Nogbad the Bad]

7 hours ago, NickJ said:

With respect, there isn't a subjective definition of vitriol. It means what the English language says it means.

I say he is a blagger, that is my opinion, and again I would ask what word you suggest I use which conveys the same message which isn't (in your opinion) vitriolic.

It seems to me that the LJ defenders have themselves descended to sledging of posters who have expressed perfectly reasonable non vitriolic criticisms.

This is the crux of the matter and is unarguable.

When someone labels someone else's post with a word that is completely over the top, and easily shown to have been inappropriate by the definition of the word, they really should have the good grace to accept they were wrong to use it in the first place, rather than continuing to use the word and insisting they were right to do so.

 

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

This is the crux of the matter and is unarguable.

When someone labels someone else's post with a word that is completely over the top, and easily shown to have been inappropriate by the definition of the word, they really should have the good grace to accept they were wrong to use it in the first place, rather than continuing to use the word and insisting they were right to do so.

 

Taken it quite badly haven’t you. 

[BrizzleRed]

11 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

This is the crux of the matter and is unarguable.

When someone labels someone else's post with a word that is completely over the top, and easily shown to have been inappropriate by the definition of the word, they really should have the good grace to accept they were wrong to use it in the first place, rather than continuing to use the word and insisting they were right to do so.

 

Pretty much the same as the massively over-used ‘vile’ these days.  

That seems to be some people’s go-to word for any action they don’t personally like, and its use is often totally inappropriate and ott.

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

My own impression is of a driven man who has had a lifetime of insults relating to height and footballing ability. Magnified by the shadow of his Dad’s success which I am convinced he measures himself against whilst holding GJ a little in contempt for his. ‘ old fashioned ‘ methods. 
I feel a bit sorry for LJ in some respects as if he had promoted Sunderland and it was largely his team that made it , then perhaps , he could have chilled out a bit and developed into the coach I believe he could be. 
I wish him well but I wouldn’t want him back at City. 

Errrr...apart from taking us up and into the Pray-Off final, exactly what was that 'success'?

[soultrader]

6 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Our obsession with LJ is beyond weird, even for us. 

I think its because he is " a busy bee, if you like "

 

Plus his contribution to the managers lexicon should not be underestimated.

 

 

* admit it, you did the voice

[Sheltons Army]

27 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Errrr...apart from taking us up and into the Pray-Off final, exactly what was that 'success'?

Other than taking over a shambles of a Club , players fighting on the pitch and off it, in danger of dropping to League Two , steadied us and swiftly built a PROMOTION side , took us up and with a team of waifs and strays got us to a PO Final.

The promotion alone is something his son has never achieved

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

22 hours ago, NickJ said:

As I pointed out to @Leveller a few posts up, there appears to be a misundertanding of the word vitriol.

A few people seem to have taken criticism of any kind as vitriol.

Your posts are not vitriolic, neither are mine, nor are the vast majority on here, as defined by the word vitriol.

Saying he's a crap manager or was a crap player, is not vitriol.

To suggest he benefitted at Bristol City from nepotism (player) and mysterious favourtism (manager) is not vitriol.

There would need to be an element of gratuitous malice.

Words such as blagger, fraud, charatan, inept, incompetent - for those who have tried to say otherwise, they are not malicious and therefore they are not vitriolic.

What is obvious from this thread and others I have seen on Sunderland and Hibs (I do, as clearly do many others on this thread, take an unexplainably perverse interest in his career) is that the vast majority of commentators think he is a crap manager for all sorts of reasons, and he is widely ridiculed.

I'd say that many on here defending him do so from a sense of perceived unjustice, which is very laudable, but I could list a page or more of examples why he is ridiculed, and I really do not understand how anyone who isn't really taken very seriously can hope to succeeed in management of any type.

 

 

I'd say "fraud" could be deemed malicious, that's too strong fer me. If Lee was a fraud, what was Ashton? All said and done, Lee didn't appoint himself here; if Lee was lacking or whatever he was (or wasn't), that's Steve's responsibility. 

[Sleepy1968]

I quite liked some of LJ's reign here - but he fell a bit short in the end - he wasn't helped by being paired with Mark Ashton. And I think he still could've taken Sunderland up to the Championship, even off the back of that awful run. They were probably just itching to get rid of him though.

It's nice to see he's finally seen the light and taken up a new career. Not sure I'd want to try to get to grips with that back catalogue, but fair play. All hail the new Stevie Nicks, you really have gone your own way.

[Nogbad the Bad]

On 13/09/2023 at 07:10, Ghost Rider said:

Our obsession with LJ is beyond weird, even for us. 

LJ was a prominent figure at BCFC for a very long time, and remains controversial, and if we are obsessed with him he is simply one part of a wider obsession we would all have to admit to share - Bristol City F.C. -  an obsession that in itself would be seen as weird to those with no interest in City or football.

I like the 'even for us' but I wouldn't see LJ as a particularly weird obsession on OTIB, a platform after all for Bristol City 'fanatics' who mostly have a long term addiction to City, leading to strong opinions on just about every issue that affects the club.

LJ is one subject where we could be seen to take an excessive interest, but really it's par for the course for those so engrossed in the club they feel the need to visit (and comment on) this site most days, and let's face it it's not just LJ, the same charge could be levelled at numerous other threads on here too.

 

 

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ was a prominent figure at BCFC for a very long time, and remains controversial, and if we are obsessed with him he is simply one part of a wider obsession we would all have to admit to share - Bristol City F.C. -  an obsession that in itself would be seen as weird to those with no interest in City or football.

I like the 'even for us' but I wouldn't see LJ as a particularly weird obsession on OTIB, a platform after all for Bristol City 'fanatics' who mostly have a long term addiction to City, leading to strong opinions on just about every issue that affects the club.

LJ is one subject where we could be seen to take an excessive interest, but really it's par for the course for those so engrossed in the club they feel the need to visit (and comment on) this site most days, and let's face it it's not just LJ, the same charge could be levelled at numerous other threads on here too.

 

 

I said pretty much the same yesterday.
He spent 10 years here ,  No great surprise his name pops up a lot.

[bissellredhead]

23 hours ago, SecretSam said:

Errrr...apart from taking us up and into the Pray-Off final, exactly what was that 'success'?

Is that you robbored?

[Harry]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

LJ was a prominent figure at BCFC for a very long time, and remains controversial, and if we are obsessed with him he is simply one part of a wider obsession we would all have to admit to share - Bristol City F.C. -  an obsession that in itself would be seen as weird to those with no interest in City or football.

I like the 'even for us' but I wouldn't see LJ as a particularly weird obsession on OTIB, a platform after all for Bristol City 'fanatics' who mostly have a long term addiction to City, leading to strong opinions on just about every issue that affects the club.

LJ is one subject where we could be seen to take an excessive interest, but really it's par for the course for those so engrossed in the club they feel the need to visit (and comment on) this site most days, and let's face it it's not just LJ, the same charge could be levelled at numerous other threads on here too.

 

 

Gary Johnson managed us for longer than Lee. Where’s Gary’s 50-page thread? 
I doubt he’s had more than 50 posts about him in the 13 years since he left. 

[GrahamC]

23 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Other than taking over a shambles of a Club , players fighting on the pitch and off it, in danger of dropping to League Two , steadied us and swiftly built a PROMOTION side , took us up and with a team of waifs and strays got us to a PO Final.

The promotion alone is something his son has never achieved

 

 

Since 1980 our five highest finishes in the second tier have been as follows;

Gary Johnson 4th

Lee Johnson 8th

Jimmy Lumsden 9th

Gary Johnson 10th

Gary Johnson 10th.

Yes, he achieved consecutive 10th place finishes. So aside from transforming the shambles he inherited under Tinnion, winning promotion in his first full season & then making the playoffs final the following one, he also delivered 2 more of our best 5 finishes in 43 years.

But apparently that’s not “success” in our context, absolutely **** me.

 

[Davefevs]

21 minutes ago, Harry said:

Gary Johnson managed us for longer than Lee. Where’s Gary’s 50-page thread? 
I doubt he’s had more than 50 posts about him in the 13 years since he left. 

Main reasons are:

1. He didn’t also play for us

2. Social media has grown in those 13 years

3. Human nature of social media activity tends to focus on being negative / critical

[Leveller]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Main reasons are:

1. He didn’t also play for us

2. Social media has grown in those 13 years

3. Human nature of social media activity tends to focus on being negative / critical

4. Somebody has overlooked Rob bored’s posts.

[alexukhc]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Since 1980 our five highest finishes in the second tier have been as follows;

Gary Johnson 4th

Lee Johnson 8th

Jimmy Lumsden 9th

Gary Johnson 10th

Gary Johnson 10th.

Yes, he achieved consecutive 10th place finishes. So aside from transforming the shambles he inherited under Tinnion, winning promotion in his first full season & then making the playoffs final the following one, he also delivered 2 more of our best 5 finishes in 43 years.

But apparently that’s not “success” in our context, absolutely **** me.

 

Jimmy L was he even that good? 

[Nogbad the Bad]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

Gary Johnson managed us for longer than Lee. Where’s Gary’s 50-page thread? 
I doubt he’s had more than 50 posts about him in the 13 years since he left. 

A bit of an exaggeration there - I have made many posts myself about GJ, mostly along the lines that the players should have gone, not him.

That's by the by, my point above was there are plenty of other subjects apart from LJ where what could be seen as excessive interest is shown on here.

Case in point is a 96 page thread on top of P1 atm, about the kit suppliers, almost twice the size as this LJ one.

Plus that one isn't being unnecessarily bloated by posters feeling they have to answer accusations of being vitriolic...........

Edited September 14, 2023 by Nogbad the Bad
97 pages now.

[GrahamC]

18 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

Jimmy L was he even that good? 

Inherited Joe Jordan’s team after about 3 games when Joseph went to Hearts.

Started going pear shaped when he had to make his own decisions on signings (after Martin Scott).

[Bristol Oil Services]

16 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Inherited Joe Jordan’s team after about 3 games when Joseph went to Hearts.

Started going pear shaped when he had to make his own decisions on signings (after Martin Scott).

Blackburn at home (4:2), Swindon away (1:0), that was it, wasn't it? Might've been a league cup game, too (a draw at West Brom, just checked). We don't start too many seasons at this level with two wins in the league ...

[glynriley]

36 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Blackburn at home (4:2), Swindon away (1:0), that was it, wasn't it? Might've been a league cup game, too (a draw at West Brom, just checked). We don't start too many seasons at this level with two wins in the league ...

Winder if Joe regrets that decision as much as we do? We'd have gone straight up again that season I reckon.

[handsofclay]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Winder if Joe regrets that decision as much as we do? We'd have gone straight up again that season I reckon.

Apparently he was being told at the time that he would stand a far better chance of being picked to manage Scotland if he was the boss of a fairly large Scottish club. Like yourself I believe we had the momentum that season under Jordan to propel ourselves into the top flight. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

Winder if Joe regrets that decision as much as we do? We'd have gone straight up again that season I reckon.

I'd imagine he has ruminated on that once or twice since then. It's difficult to see us doing any worse than 9th that season if Joe had stayed, and very tempting to imagine we might've done a little better.

[RUSSEL85]

Whoops!!

[freezer]

Looks like he's working his magic already! 

[Superjack]

8 hours ago, freezer said:

Looks like he's working his magic already! 

Don't worry. They will pick up a few points in ten games time.

[bearded_red]

Well done Lee.

[cidercity1987]

Johnson going to Fleetwood was a strange move, a decision made by a bloke who cannot bear to be out of work I think.

Once he gets sacked in the near future that should be it for his managerial career, he should focus on coaching

[M.D]

As above, lost 5 on the bounce, conceded 16 scored 0.

[REDOXO]

On 09/12/2023 at 23:29, cidercity1987 said:

Johnson going to Fleetwood was a strange move, a decision made by a bloke who cannot bear to be out of work I think.

Once he gets sacked in the near future that should be it for his managerial career, he should focus on Talk Shite/Sport

Fixed. 
 

Having never been coached by Lee it’s impossible for me to say if he’s any good or not. 
 

However what Lee does is talk a good game which makes him perfect for tv and radio. 
 

Lee has been a bit of a failure at any club he has stayed at long enough for a view to be given. When Fleetwood finally decide to get shot he will be at a real crossroads as taking and failing again would probably damage his “expert” credentials! 

[nickolas]

Shock!! ( not ). 

[Barrs Court Red]

That must be it for him I would have thought. 

[Redrascal2]

I wonder what poor club will fall for his unique brand of bullshit next. League 2 or National League or is that it.

[Numero Uno]

Someone will lose their shit on this thread, guaranteed.

[nickolas]

Had a good thing going with us but literally has done nothing anywhere else. 
Im sure POMO’s and box entries just dont cut it in the lower leagues.

[cidercity1987]

Bad bad move for him. His agent must advise him to take a break and not jump into the next available job

[petehinton]

I have absolutely no idea why he took that job. That’s a potential managerial career ender, at league one above anyway. 

[bearded_red]

Remember though, he’s a bright young coach learning his trade and those of us that thought he was a complete fraud would be proved wrong.

Sacked by two clubs in the same season and we’re still only in December.

[RUSSEL85]

Thing is, if he concentrated on the main aspects of football management he would be a fine league 1 coach/manager. Unfortunately, bullshit baffles brains. He worries so much about small details here and there and seems to forget the main bit of the job. Just an observation on my part, but I’m sure he will end up in league 2 job shortly.

[Sheltons Army]

7 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Had a good thing going with us but literally has done nothing anywhere else. 
Im sure POMO’s and box entries just dont cut it in the lower leagues.

You mean we (Well SL and a fair few on here ) indulged him for 4 years or so 

[Red Army 75]

Bloke needs a break from the game 

[Super]

Barton to go back I expect

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Bloke needs a break from the game 

I think that’s probably fair. For all the stick he gets, Fleetwood were an odd fit - pretty much the smallest club at that level and success at this point in time would be being just outside the relegation zone. There wasn’t any opportunity to progress and the sack was a case of when as opposed to if. Whether people like him or dislike him, it was a marked step down from us, Sunderland or Hibs and I can’t help but think he’d have been better served taking time out post Hibs to recharge and analyse why it goes wrong in a consistent way for him. As it is, he’s probably done at above L2 level now.

No axe to grind with him, no smartearse comments. Just appears he’s made a bad choice and shot himself in the foot.

[fisherrich]

16 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

Remember though, he’s a bright young coach learning his trade and those of us that thought he was a complete fraud would be proved wrong.

Sacked by two clubs in the same season and we’re still only in December.

Another massive mistake by the Lansdowns. Plenty on here defended LJ at the time.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s probably fair. For all the stick he gets, Fleetwood were an odd fit - pretty much the smallest club at that level and success at this point in time would be being just outside the relegation zone. There wasn’t any opportunity to progress and the sack was a case of when as opposed to if. Whether people like him or dislike him, it was a marked step down from us, Sunderland or Hibs and I can’t help but think he’d have been better served taking time out post Hibs to recharge and analyse why it goes wrong in a consistent way for him. As it is, he’s probably done at above L2 level now.

No axe to grind with him, no smartearse comments. Just appears he’s made a bad choice and shot himself in the foot.

Think he needs to go and be a number 2 somewhere.

[Fjmcity]

3 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Another massive mistake by the Lansdowns. Plenty on here defended LJ at the time.

Did well for a time, stabilised us in the championship and gave us some great moments in that 18/19 season but ran its course and they didn’t pull the trigger soon enough. Not much to see here 

[Barrs Court Red]

6 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Another massive mistake by the Lansdowns. Plenty on here defended LJ at the time.

In the list of things to bury them with, not sure his appointment is one of them. 
 

Took too long to pull the trigger though. 

[Mendip City]

Let’s just be grateful this didn’t happen 6 weeks ago. I’m sure the hierarchy here still believe in him! 

[ralphindevon]

16 minutes ago, Super said:

Barton to go back I expect

I think he’s thrown the towel in as far as management goes.

With his latest outbursts I can’t see any club alienating their female fan base by hiring him.

[REDOXO]

I love this sub forum although I suspect not everyone agrees

LJ in sacked for being dreadful shocker. He really needs a job with Talk Sport! 

[Red Exile]

13 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Plenty on here defended LJ at the time.

Yep. Next Pep or something wasn't he?

Anyway - thank goodness that's in the past. The Landsown failure wasn't so much appointing him, it was stubbornly digging in behind him when it was obvious it wasn't working.  Bet the house on the chap...turned out LJ was a dud. 

If he's a decent coach, as many have suggested, he should take a coaching job.

[lenred]

19 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

Another massive mistake by the Lansdowns. Plenty on here defended LJ at the time.

Unbelievably plenty still do! 

[RedM]

I did wonder when McAllister didn't link up with him again, but didn't realise Way and Jevons had.

[One Team]

43 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Had a good thing going with us but literally has done nothing anywhere else. 
Im sure POMO’s and box entries just dont cut it in the lower leagues.

I’m no great LJ fan (that league cup run aside) but that’s not quite accurate in my view. He did do reasonably well at Sunderland for a time and won the JPT. Not great for a club of their size perhaps but was their first Wembley win and trophy for years. 

Pretty sure he will end up at Yeovil at some point!

[LondonBristolian]

36 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Thing is, if he concentrated on the main aspects of football management he would be a fine league 1 coach/manager. Unfortunately, bullshit baffles brains. He worries so much about small details here and there and seems to forget the main bit of the job. Just an observation on my part, but I’m sure he will end up in league 2 job shortly.

I agree. I remember saying this when he was here but a lot of the issue for me was he spent so much time trying to get 5% extra out of players that he frequently forgot how to get the main 95% out of them.

I don’t think he is a bad manager or that he did a terrible job for us but I do think he’d be a much better manager if he stopped trying to prove how good he was and trying to bamboozle the opposition in ways that frequently end up bamboozling his own players and probably himself. 
 

As others have said, his CV looks very poor at the moment. I feel his best hope is probably trying to take a job in the National League, get a club into League Two and build his reputation from there. He needs to choose his next role extremely wisely though or even National League jobs could soon be beyond his reach.

[exAtyeoMax]

29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think he needs to go and be a number 2 somewhere.

I've always thought that. I suggested that when he was at City. Might be a decent coach on the training ground but not a manager or a head coach

[Superjack]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think he needs to go and be a number 2 somewhere.

Ego would forbid.

[Waffleflap]

Needs to just coach and give up the management thing. It's obviously not for him. Makes football sound like you need a degree to play the game. Players tire of listening to his waffle 

[Lrrr]

That was a really bad choice of job at a really bad time, too far out from a transfer window with too little there to work with. May be able to get himself a decent sized League 2 job, still some fairly well financed teams there. Or as another idea of what could be next, as Carsley gets linked to numerous jobs now perhaps England U21 or U20 (if they promote from within first) could be an option. 

[pongo88]

Some comments from fans aren’t complementary:
 

“Just give up mate. You're not meant to be a manager."

“How do you get sacked twice in the same season before the new year? Please, ffs, no one ever give him a job again. Worst manager in the world."

[B1ackbird]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bad bad move for him. His agent must advise him to take a break and not jump into the next available job

The usual sacked manager move is to go and play golf in Spain for two or three months,then return and appear on Sky Sports News.

Edited December 30, 2023 by B1ackbird

[xerox6060]

53 minutes ago, One Team said:

I’m no great LJ fan (that league cup run aside) but that’s not quite accurate in my view. He did do reasonably well at Sunderland for a time and won the JPT. Not great for a club of their size perhaps but was their first Wembley win and trophy for years. 

Pretty sure he will end up at Yeovil at some point!

Agreed I think Yeovil too at some stage, Fleetwood job never looked an appropriate fit.

[prankerd]

Hes definitely chosen the wrong jobs, i think hes only got national league left with his reputation now, feel for him, always thought he would be a good coach but management just doesnt seem to work for him.

[Shauntaylor85]

The Johnson’s are very limited, we were always a level above them as a club to manage, hence why they haven’t managed at a higher level than City. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Ridiculous this isn’t on the main forum.

Can we have our old football chat forum back for the New Year please?

It was far better all in one place and hardly anybody wanted it divided up like this.

[slartibartfast]

Torquay ?

[Harry]

41 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

Some comments from fans aren’t complementary:
 

“Just give up mate. You're not meant to be a manager."

“How do you get sacked twice in the same season before the new year? Please, ffs, no one ever give him a job again. Worst manager in the world."

Who said those comments though? 
All I’ve seen from actual Fleetwood fans is that they are surprised, disappointed and say that the problems at the club run much deeper. Some even wondering if he walked rather than was sacked! 
 

The negative comments are all from Hibs, Sunderland and still weirdly Villa fans. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Harry

[Harvey86]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Think he needs to go and be a number 2 somewhere.

He was a ‘number 2’ here wasn’t he? Aside from the cup run and first half of ‘that’ season. 
 

I do think he has something- we played well at times under him, just think he’s just not as clever as he thinks he is and maybe doesn’t have the personality to inspire players when in a slump. I reckon the love child of LJ and NP would be interesting though!

[pongo88]

38 minutes ago, Harry said:

Who said those comments though? 
All I’ve seen from actual Fleetwood fans is that they are surprised, disappointed and say that the problems at the club run much deeper. Some even wondering if he walked rather than was sacked! 
 

The negative comments are all from Hibs, Sunderland and still weirdly Villa fans. 

Even if all the Fleetwood fans are singing his praises, which I can’t imagine to be true, it’s significant that his reputation at the last two “big” clubs he managed is still negative. 

[TheCulturalBomb]

I remember posting after he was sacked here, he hasn't established himself as a Championship manager and will struggle to get a job at this level. People disagreed and I still don't know why. I'm not honestly sure we'll ever see him manage at this level again unless he provides some miracle with a lower league club. 

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

I think he’s thrown the towel in as far as management goes.

With his latest outbursts I can’t see any club alienating their female fan base by hiring him.

I'd have thought any decent fan would be alienated by that individual (Barton).

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Sleepy1968