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Dan Robin

Dan Robin

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Always easier to say when you’ve won, but this referee tonight has been really really good. 

Any chance of cloning him and bringing his versions in the Championship to replace the current scum? ? 

Good luck against France. Great game.

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Picking up on Neville's half time comments. It does seem that Southgate is better at creating an environment and atmosphere conducive to getting the best out of Maguire than a succession of Man U managers.

He also seems able to get players replicating their best club form, which his predecessors have struggled to manage all too often.

H

 

 

 

 

You can see the group of players , many of whom crop up as controversial selections , and ‘why’ he ‘trusts them’ 

Pickford, Maguire , Stones , Henderson , ...and a few more

He trusts them , and in return , they trust , and feel backed by him , and as a result deliver pretty damned consistently

 

Johnson , and to some degree NP talk about players they could trust , but Southgate really does have those trusts 

Edited by Sheltons Army
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cityexile

cityexile

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Posted

Think France may well be Southgate’s defining moment.

Might be harsh, but there will be those who say still the run to the SF last time we did not face any real giants, and lost three matches against the better sides. Foden and Bellingham make us a better side than then.

For half a century we have not beaten a team that has won the World Cup away from Wembley in a knock out round. We have made later rounds, we have got close losing from time to time on penalties. 

Beat France and many of those demons are put to bed. Lose a QF again against one of the real contenders, well, been there before.

Southgate’s Waterloo. Hopefully the same result.

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lenred

lenred

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sheltons Army said:

Bellingham’s parents must just ooze with pride

Besides his performances his manners , intelligence , and maturity in interviews is truly truly astonishing for his age 

Was just saying the same.   Such an impressive young man.  

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pl00peh91

pl00peh91

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Think France may well be Southgate’s defining moment.

Might be harsh, but there will be those who say still the run to the SF last time we did not face any real giants, and lost three matches against the better sides. Foden and Bellingham make us a better side than then.

For half a century we have not beaten a team that has won the World Cup away from Wembley in a knock out round. We have made later rounds, we have got close losing from time to time on penalties. 

Beat France and many of those demons are put to bed. Lose a QF again against one of the real contenders, well, been there before.

Southgate’s Waterloo. Hopefully the same result.

We beat Germany in the euros though. How many defining moments does he need?

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Ska Junkie

Ska Junkie

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Bellingham’s parents must just ooze with pride

Besides his performances his manners , intelligence , and maturity in interviews is truly truly astonishing for his age 

By all accounts, his younger brother is something special as well.

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cityexile

cityexile

Posted
Posted
Just now, TomF said:

Similar to Spain 10 or so years ago. Multiple underachievers but got over the voodoo and the trophies rolled in.

The current holders tho, will be as tough as it gets 

Good analogue. We could play at our very best and still be edged out by France. To go in to a World Cup and expect to win it is nuts, 31 teams won’t, so it’s best to just enjoy the journey and it’s been pretty decent so far. Will be some fantastic young players on view our next match.

Would love to kill all the voodoo at once and win on penalties. This team are used to going deep, and don’t fear the past.

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cityexile

cityexile

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, pl00peh91 said:

We beat Germany in the euros though. How many defining moments does he need?

At Wembley. 

Difficult to argue with his success. It’s more personal I suppose. Since seeing us blow a 2-0 lead to West Germany in 1970, sometimes we have been poor, sometimes good, but have always just fallen short in the big games, sometimes by a whisker.I am ready for us to edge the big ones.

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ChippenhamRed

ChippenhamRed

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, pl00peh91 said:

We beat Germany in the euros though. How many defining moments does he need?

That was a very limited German team who failed to get out of their group in the World Cups either side of that Euros.

I’ve got a huge amount of respect for Southgate, but the one thing you have to say we haven’t done yet is win a game against a top team where we haven’t started as favourites. Beating France would undoubtedly be his biggest single game achievement as manager.

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Bellingham’s parents must just ooze with pride

Besides his performances his manners , intelligence , and maturity in interviews is truly truly astonishing for his age 

100%. And whilst your comparisons with Gascoigne may hold good in many respects, in terms of temperament they couldn’t be further apart! Which is why Bellingham has the potential to achieve so much more. 

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Show Me The Money!

Show Me The Money!

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Are France better than us? Don't rate that Centre Midfield, even Man Utd won't touch that Rabiot

I would say they are overall better than us and we’d need to play at our best to stand a chance. We are capable of beating them but if Mbappe is on fire again we will be in trouble. Might be a high scoring game and we have to try and out score them 

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RUSSEL85

RUSSEL85

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2 minutes ago, Show Me The Money! said:

I would say they are overall better than us and we’d need to play at our best to stand a chance. We are capable of beating them but if Mbappe is on fire again we will be in trouble. Might be a high scoring game and we have to try and out score them 

I think defensively they are prone, and we have a good attack. If we defend well we win I believe. If we present the same chances to France like we did Senegal in first half we could be in trouble.

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Northern Red

Northern Red

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

BBC won’t move Strictly ? ??

They have, it's on Sunday next week.

14 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

How da **** have ITV got it again??

Between the two of them they take turns to pick their matches, ITV went for the first choice in the R16 and QFs, whereas BBC have gambled on England getting to the Semis.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Bellingham’s parents must just ooze with pride

Besides his performances his manners , intelligence , and maturity in interviews is truly truly astonishing for his age 

Thought his and Southgate’s interviews were excellent.

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cityexile

cityexile

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5 minutes ago, RUSSEL85 said:

I think defensively they are prone, and we have a good attack. If we defend well we win I believe. If we present the same chances to France like we did Senegal in first half we could be in trouble.

In many ways both our matches were very similar. Both Poland and Senegal has some real chances early on. When it went 1-0, both were cruising. 

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, italian dave said:

100%. And whilst your comparisons with Gascoigne may hold good in many respects, in terms of temperament they couldn’t be further apart! Which is why Bellingham has the potential to achieve so much more. 

Yes , very good point

What a future he has 

He looks like he has 80 caps under his belt

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted

Think Southgate deserves a lot of credit.

I don’t care if he is a tad cautious at times.  For too long I think England teams have been a bit cocky and cane unstuck.  He’s created a bit of a club culture that we probably haven’t had since Venables.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been critical of some things he’s done.

I wouldn’t have played Saka when he first picked him, nor would I have played Rice DM so young, but I guess with the backing of the FA he’s felt he can build a team without the odd bad result costing him his job.  And those two players in particular have really improved too.

Tough game coming up against France, but a tough game for France too.  That little triangle of Stones (RCB), Walker (RB) and Henderson (RCM) might be key.

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
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1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Think Southgate deserves a lot of credit.

I don’t care if he is a tad cautious at times.  For too long I think England teams have been a bit cocky and cane unstuck.  He’s created a bit of a club culture that we probably haven’t had since Venables.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been critical of some things he’s done.

I wouldn’t have played Saka when he first picked him, nor would I have played Rice DM so young, but I guess with the backing of the FA he’s felt he can build a team without the odd bad result costing him his job.  And those two players in particular have really improved too.

Tough game coming up against France, but a tough game for France too.  That little triangle of Stones (RCB), Walker (RB) and Henderson (RCM) might be key.

Do you not think he will revert to a five Dave

Trippier rwb but very conservative with Walker RCB in a three to almost double up on Mbappe ?

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

Posted
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4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think Southgate deserves a lot of credit.

I don’t care if he is a tad cautious at times.  For too long I think England teams have been a bit cocky and cane unstuck.  He’s created a bit of a club culture that we probably haven’t had since Venables.

Spookily , Stuart Pearce on radio earlier saying that Euro 96 team really bonded as the tournament progressed where he felt this squad already has those established bonds

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MarcusX

MarcusX

Posted
Posted
On 03/12/2022 at 15:49, Lanterne Rouge said:

2-0 to the Dutch and totally in charge. It`s always the way with them, creep through the groups under the radar and then turn it on in the knockouts. A bit like Italy when they`re there.

Bizarre comment really, wouldn’t say it’s “always the way” or “turn it on” in knockouts, especially for younger generations who have probably seen them fail to qualify or crash out early more than do well

 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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6 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Do you not think he will revert to a five Dave

Trippier rwb but very conservative with Walker RCB in a three to almost double up on Mbappe ?

I dunno tbh Shelts.  I hope not.  We have 2 CBs in form defensively…the concerns in recent years necessitating another CB (wrongly imho) aren’t there, and to break up the way we are setting up, would seem ceding an advantage in midfield to France.  They’ll be shit scared of Bellingham burst through as part of a three, with three options ahead of him.  Think he has to trust Walker in a conventional four against Mbappe, as I think it means we can stop Griezmann floating into dangerous positions.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted

Southgate on Sky Sports News now doing another interview.  Talks about how Henderson and Bellingham kept us on the game first half by pinching balls, and how Henderson gives Bellingham freedom.

Anyone would think he knows what he’s on about!!!

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cityexile

cityexile

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Southgate on Sky Sports News now doing another interview.  Talks about how Henderson and Bellingham kept us on the game first half by pinching balls, and how Henderson gives Bellingham freedom.

Anyone would think he knows what he’s on about!!!

Loved him saying:

"You can tell them now if they're watching it, we're still fighting for this world cup, and they've got to go to Al Bayt and get something, and... and... I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if we beat them, love it!"

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Red Billy

Red Billy

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno tbh Shelts.  I hope not.  We have 2 CBs in form defensively…the concerns in recent years necessitating another CB (wrongly imho) aren’t there, and to break up the way we are setting up, would seem ceding an advantage in midfield to France.  They’ll be shit scared of Bellingham burst through as part of a three, with three options ahead of him.  Think he has to trust Walker in a conventional four against Mbappe, as I think it means we can stop Griezmann floating into dangerous positions.

I hate when managers adapt the team to match the threat of the opposing team.  Always felt Johnson’s down fall for us was his over thinking.  I want us to take the game to France and cause them problems. 

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Lrrr

Lrrr

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I dunno tbh Shelts.  I hope not.  We have 2 CBs in form defensively…the concerns in recent years necessitating another CB (wrongly imho) aren’t there, and to break up the way we are setting up, would seem ceding an advantage in midfield to France.  They’ll be shit scared of Bellingham burst through as part of a three, with three options ahead of him.  Think he has to trust Walker in a conventional four against Mbappe, as I think it means we can stop Griezmann floating into dangerous positions.

Think the only reason we would change to 3 would be to congest wide areas in our third and to get wide overloads in their third

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And Its Smith

And Its Smith

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Posted

If the games hadn’t gone as they had I’d be definite he will switch to a 3-4-3 but now he has the headache of what to do with Bellingham if he does that. I can’t see him dropping Rice or Henderson so would need to play him as one of the front 3 which I can’t really see him doing either.  That makes me think he might stick with this.  

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Sheltons Army

Sheltons Army

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6 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

If the games hadn’t gone as they had I’d be definite he will switch to a 3-4-3 but now he has the headache of what to do with Bellingham if he does that. I can’t see him dropping Rice or Henderson so would need to play him as one of the front 3 which I can’t really see him doing either.  That makes me think he might stick with this.  

Why can’t we play 532 or 5311

As @Davefevsposted you either stay with our threat and play a bit of Russian Roulette 

or go with 3/5 at back and , in theory , suffocate their threats

Big call

My concern is how the back four real with Mbappe / Giroud / Dembele

I see Dembele as nearly as much , creative wise at least , a threat as Mbappe

Are we happy to leave Shaw & Walker 1 on 1 with them - Brave 

As I said,  Big call 

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MarcusX

MarcusX

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Posted
2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure we look a shambles!  We were sloppy though

We just tried to keep forcing it through the eye of a needle.  Patience, or a bit of something different.  As a CB or DM, if you know they are gonna play along the deck into feet…then you can go tight.  What you need occasionally is to mix it, turn one around the corner.

Got to realise teams aren’t mugs at this level, so it sometimes takes a bit of skill.

And that’s what happened, Foden flick…was all it took.  Bellingham-Gerrard bursting through and a good finish with his wrong foot from Henderson.  Then it’s all us, and Bellingham again…what a boy…and it’s 2-0.

At this level we need to care for the ball, not worry about trying to force it.  Even if it’s not pretty.  It’s about winning.

 

 

Agree Dave, as usual.

Was surprised (well, not really) to see so much negativity on here in the first half.

For 20 minutes we were in almost total control, but as you say we forced a few too many passes. One thing I like in Maguire for England is he always looks to play forward, breaking the lines. It’s risky though and when it goes awry can expose us (and I worry against France). 

However prior to this game the stats show our pass success rate was very high, second only to France. Yes some will call it “boring” but it’s patient and careful. You have to keep the ball moving and look for either gap, or a moment of magic - much like Netherlands goal yesterday, we did it too with one very clever flick and we were in. 

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Absolutely superb performance.    Controlled, calm, assured - perfect tournament football. The Southgate out bedwetters must be disappointed (not on here more a general comment). 

Agree completely. Other than 5-10 minutes where we weren’t careful enough (and an outstanding save) we were in complete control really.

Three sublime goals that if any other team scored we’d be purring over. 
 

m I won’t say I’m confident for Saturday, but I’m very excited. Win that and the cup is ours to lose IMO

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Would like to see us stick to a 4-3-3 really. Suits us.

In the medium to long term, I think a 4-3-3 with Rice-Foden-Bellingham has potential and it can be a midfield for the next decade but Henderson has some nous and gives us stability...

Think we can compete well in those central zones. Rashford, Grealish off the bench to name 2...Mbappe is a major threat and as @Sheltons Army said Dembele too...think he got the most assists in Europe not long ago.

Still think they may edge us tbh but then I assumed that Senegal may give us a tougher game than the way it played out.

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Swede

Swede

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Posted
8 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

He's also scored 51 goals for our club over the prior 3.5 seasons. For me that's more important than 6 months at the end of his contract.

Which is a shame, really. With a bit more application and a more professional attitude he would've added more goals to that tally. He was being paid very well during the last six months of his contract and our former chief exec went on record stating that they made him an even bigger offer to keep him which he refused. He could've easily done a deal and signed a new contract and give something back to the club that gave him the platform and helped him get where he is today.

He should've been showing the same professional application and desire whether its the first six months or the last six months of a contract he was more than happy to sign for in the first place.

He is partly why we're trying to navigate through these tricky financial waters.

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And Its Smith

And Its Smith

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Why can’t we play 532 or 5311

As @Davefevsposted you either stay with our threat and play a bit of Russian Roulette 

or go with 3/5 at back and , in theory , suffocate their threats

Big call

My concern is how the back four real with Mbappe / Giroud / Dembele

I see Dembele as nearly as much , creative wise at least , a threat as Mbappe

Are we happy to leave Shaw & Walker 1 on 1 with them - Brave 

As I said,  Big call 

We could do but I’m not sure he will go with a brand new formation 

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Kingswoodactor

Kingswoodactor

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

True

But absolutely necessary IMHO

How we cope with Frances front 3 decides the game for me 

I think he will go 5-3-2 rather than 5-2-3 , Because of Bellingham 

Allows him to play same robust midfield 3 

Means sacrificing Saka or Foden 

The last 2 international matches that France have lost (Denmark & Croatia in Nations League Sep/June 2022) was them up against a 4-3-3. France put out strong sides in both fixtures.

Be interesting to analyse how the Croatians and Danes won those games and stopped Mbappe. Maybe it’s more about flooding the midfield and actually starving him of the ball? If Rice, Hendo and Bellingham can dominate Rabiot, Griezmann and Tchouameni it will give us a real hope. The French look open at the back and won’t press us like Senegal did today. 

I really hope Southgate is brave and sticks with the 4-3-3. France will be as worried about our attack as we are about theirs. 

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2015

2015

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Posted

Actually felt comfortable even when Senegal had their 15 minute spell in the 1st half. Thought we were in control even when under pressure. 

Really good performance especially by Bellingham, Henderson, Kane and Rice.

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