World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[Rob k]

16 minutes ago, sticks 1969 said:

Still think it is a good world if you take the politics out of it 

no trouble out there and all fans mixing  

easy to do a couple of games a day 

very well organised and the grounds and  metro we’re stunning 

just gutted to have missed a golden chance to go all the way 

next stop Naples in March 

I’m looking forward to the North Macedonia game and Germany 24 will be amazing 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Rob k

[Tinmans Love Child]

46 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

My mate summed it up: “bring on a bloke who’s more concerned about how many of his watches were nicked.”

Your mate didn't sum it up at all, ridiculous comment 

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

Still struggling with the master stroke to substitute our most threatening player. What was he thinking?

I thought 5 minutes before he was subbed he was showing signs of fatigue. Possibly what the coaching team saw also. 

Whether Sterling was the right choice sub, but a like for like I suppose as our formation was causing the French issues.

I still struggle with our back-foot play personally. The only time Stones went into the opposition half with the ball (aside from corners/free kicks) we scored (I think, anyhow). We are way too timid at the back, whether by instruction or lack of confidence.

Far to easy to set up against for any quality opposition team, it’s almost as if we politely wait until the opposition set up in defence before we ‘launch’ (which is what we inevitably did in the first half) a forward pass. That has to change…we had the pace and skill up front to devastate teams if we choose that approach…but because Southgate is petrified of ‘basketball style’ matches he plays an ultra safe game. I think, like Spain have found, possession based football is a dinosaur. 

 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, TedsHeadIs Red said:

Very true. So easy for those with the wisdom of hindsight to criticise those with only the lottery of foresight. 

An old Irish saying……..”hindsight is foresight for gobshites”.

[Bris Red]

52 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

My mate summed it up: “bring on a bloke who’s more concerned about how many of his watches were nicked.”

What a ridiculous comment. Your mate sounds like so many other clueless clown’s that follow England.

[Fordy62]

7 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

What a ridiculous comment. Your mate sounds like so many other clueless clown’s that follow England.

To be fair it was tongue in cheek. But it tickled me. 

[Northern Red]

Sure Raheem Sterling would have found it hilarious as well...

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I mentioned the FIFA engineered final of choice, but thank you for expanding the detail. I am convinced this is the case myself. We all know how corrupt FIFA are, that's why we are here in the first place, nobody could say that it was beyond them.

Mind you, with the Saka challenge I do think it highlights how inept the officials are across the board. 

When asked if it would be looked at by VAR, ITV's pet referee said "Yes, it would have been looked at as it was part of one attacking phase of play that led to the goal, and they look at every aspect of that. But for me, it wasn't a foul because SAKA GOES DOWN TOO EASILY"! Well Walton you are as bad as the bloke on the field, the assistant ref and VAR then.

It's a joke, the player got nowhere near the ball and swept Saka's feet from under him, he couldn't have stayed on his feet. For both that and the penalty on Kane, Mbappe gets both decisions 100%.

If you venture over to the politics forum, which I know you do from time to time, you’ll know that the thing about conspiracy theories is that by their nature they can never be proved or disproved. 

But you’d surely have to say that if the objective was to ensure that England don’t/France do reach the final then awarding England two penalties is a bloody odd way of doing it. 

And if part of the plan also involved not awarding a free kick at one end of the pitch in the expectation that 40 seconds later and right down the other end of the pitch France would happen to score a goal with a peach of a strike, then they got bloody lucky. 

Walton wasn’t the only person who thought it wasn’t a foul. Personally I thought it was, but it evidently wasn’t quite as ‘nailed on’ as you’re suggesting. And even then, it’s quite feasible that the VAR Officials thought it was a foul too. But that it wasn’t sufficiently critical to the passage of play that led to the goal. That’s another explanation: one you might not agree with, but not completely impossible. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by italian dave

[redsquirrel]

just hope now modric and co can overturn messis mob, keep cool and get a load of the dirty cheats sent off,  ,love to see morocco beat france too but cant see it. 

[Super]

The way Bellingham ran straight over to Kane after the missed penalty. The lad is 19 ffs. So impressive in everything he does.

[italian dave]

15 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

just hope now modric and co can overturn messis mob, keep cool and get a load of the dirty cheats sent off,  ,love to see morocco beat france too but cant see it. 

Argentina Morocco for me. 

I like watching Modric but for me he’s effective rather than take your breath away great to watch the way Messi is on his day.  

I can’t see Morocco beating France either. But then I couldn’t see them beating Spain. And I couldn’t see them beating Portugal. So, who knows. 

[2015]

47 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

What a ridiculous comment. Your mate sounds like so many other clueless clown’s that follow England.

The worst England fans are the ones who support the 'big clubs' and actively don't want to see rival players play well for England. Seeing Chelsea and Arsenal fans mock Kane for his miss are the worst ones. No wonder players have never cared about playing for England as much

[Numero Uno]

38 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Sure Raheem Sterling would have found it hilarious as well...

I think his mate should give Stand Up Comedy a go and see if he could make a living at it to be honest...........................

[Maltshoveller]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

All people from South America are Latino - regardless of which country they’re from.

There are numerous Latino players in Europe including Portugal which is why Portuguese is spoken in Brazil whereas other S American countries speak Spanish.

Wow you learn something every day on here

I though Portuguese was spoken in Brazil due to the likes of Cabral and Vasco dea Gama

Had no idea it was to do 21st century footballers

[Super]

38 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

just hope now modric and co can overturn messis mob, keep cool and get a load of the dirty cheats sent off,  ,love to see morocco beat france too but cant see it. 

Argentina v France would be the best final but would love to see Morocco get through.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 minute ago, Maltshoveller said:

Wow you learn something every day on here

I though Portuguese was spoken in Brazil due to the likes of Cabral and Vasco dea Gama

Had no idea it was to do 21st century footballers

It was actually due to the treaty of Tordesillas which divided the trading world between Spain and Portugal via a line of longitude down the Atlantic. The trouble was for Spain that no-one knew the bulge in South America where Brazil is existed so it when it was found it fell on the Portuguese side.

[Port Said Red]

10 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Wow you learn something every day on here

I though Portuguese was spoken in Brazil due to the likes of Cabral and Vasco dea Gama

Had no idea it was to do 21st century footballers

It's also worth noting that the Portuguese spoken in Brazil has become so entwined with the original indigenous languages, that the Portuguese and Brazilians struggle to understand each other.

I am still trying to understand why blatantly racist remarks are acceptable from a poster, as long as they make the target as vague as possible.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Port Said Red

[Red-Robbo]

Made the mistake of watching it in Shepton Mallet. Found myself surrounded by losers in blue-and-white clowns' outfits.

Precisely why Shepton is such a stronghold of Gassery, is unclear. It's nowhere near Gloucestershire. I put it down to being the most depressing town in the Mendips.

A depressing night all round. And a depressing hangover now. 

[Robbored]

53 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Wow you learn something every day on here

I though Portuguese was spoken in Brazil due to the likes of Cabral and Vasco dea Gama

Had no idea it was to do 21st century footballers

There’s no need to be deliberately dim, Malt. You know precisely what I’m getting at.

[Bazooka Joe]

25 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Made the mistake of watching it in Shepton Mallet. Found myself surrounded by losers in blue-and-white clowns' outfits.

Precisely why Shepton is such a stronghold of Gassery, is unclear. It's nowhere near Gloucestershire. I put it down to being the most depressing town in the Mendips.

A depressing night all round. And a depressing hangover now. 

Probably Shepton Mallet Prison.

Like bees round a honeypot. Like flies (bluebottles) around a turd.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bazooka Joe

[TV Tom]

38 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Made the mistake of watching it in Shepton Mallet. Found myself surrounded by losers in blue-and-white clowns' outfits.

Precisely why Shepton is such a stronghold of Gassery, is unclear. It's nowhere near Gloucestershire. I put it down to being the most depressing town in the Mendips.

A depressing night all round. And a depressing hangover now. 

How strange, has it always been the case? What numbers are we talking here

[Midred]

14 hours ago, Northern Red said:

Cretin.

Was he in the squad?

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I'll refer you to my previous answer.  What are your thoughts on the aliens in Area 51?

Is that like the singing section?

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, harrys said:

How strange, has it always been the case? What numbers are we talking here

 They definitely outnumber City fans there.  Luckily, I located another Ciderhead, so a medley of Ashton Gate classics serenaded the mute Gasheads who, to be fair, were OK people to banter with.  They thought Barton was a reasonable although limited manager, but repulsive human being, so not too deluded. 

[Red-Robbo]

8 minutes ago, Midred said:

Was he in the squad?

Plays gridiron....

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

If you venture over to the politics forum, which I know you do from time to time, you’ll know that the thing about conspiracy theories is that by their nature they can never be proved or disproved. 

But you’d surely have to say that if the objective was to ensure that England don’t/France do reach the final then awarding England two penalties is a bloody odd way of doing it. 

And if part of the plan also involved not awarding a free kick at one end of the pitch in the expectation that 40 seconds later and right down the other end of the pitch France would happen to score a goal with a peach of a strike, then they got bloody lucky. 

Walton wasn’t the only person who thought it wasn’t a foul. Personally I thought it was, but it evidently wasn’t quite as ‘nailed on’ as you’re suggesting. And even then, it’s quite feasible that the VAR Officials thought it was a foul too. But that it wasn’t sufficiently critical to the passage of play that led to the goal. That’s another explanation: one you might not agree with, but not completely impossible. 

My thoughts are that has the challenges on Sako been at the other end and on Mbappe, I am pretty certain it would have been penalised.

Similarly. Had the challenge on Kane been at the other end and on Mbappe, do we think that it even a free kick would be awarded?

I'm not necessarily thinking their is a conspiracy, but there seems little doubt that too many refs have a propensity to penalise challenges on the likes of Mbappe and Messi, whereas they do not penalise the same challenges on other teams'players.

 

[Northern Red]

2 hours ago, Super said:

The way Bellingham ran straight over to Kane after the missed penalty. The lad is 19 ffs. So impressive in everything he does.

Nailed on future captain.

[pillred]

12 hours ago, italian dave said:

Scenario 1: referee uses VAR to give himself a better view of a potential penalty call and decides with the benefit of that better view and replay that the correct decision is a penalty

Scenario 2: there’s an international/Qatari/FIFA conspiracy to ensure that certain teams reach the final and/or that England definitely don’t reach the final because no-one likes us

At the end of the day you can believe which you want, but I know which I find most convincing. 

And reaching for the conspiracy/everyone hates us excuse just because we’ve lost a big game just makes us seem like bad losers - or like ManU or Millwall fans!

When you see how overwhelmingly obvious the penalty was were you not the slightest bit surprised it was not given immediately by the ref? because me and every other person in the pub last night was. He did not look like he was going to give it and was told to look at the monitor. obviously overall there was no conspiracy against us I was shocked that he himself never gave us it immediately.

[TV Tom]

5 minutes ago, pillred said:

When you see how overwhelmingly obvious the penalty was were you not the slightest bit surprised it was not given immediately by the ref? because me and every other person in the pub last night was. He did not look like he was going to give it and was told to look at the monitor. obviously overall there was no conspiracy against us I was shocked that he himself never gave us it immediately.

Not surprised it wasn’t originally given being as players are so good at cheating, patently obvious when seeing the replay, this is why we have VAR 

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, pillred said:

When you see how overwhelmingly obvious the penalty was were you not the slightest bit surprised it was not given immediately by the ref? because me and every other person in the pub last night was. He did not look like he was going to give it and was told to look at the monitor. obviously overall there was no conspiracy against us I was shocked that he himself never gave us it immediately.

 

Yup. I don't think you can say a ref who gives you two penalties is biased. I just don't think he was very good. 

It's amazing really, when you have the entire world to draw officials from, how many absolute belters ended up reffing in this World Cup. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Still struggling with the master stroke to substitute our most threatening player. What was he thinking?

Thats the only thing I can really find fault with. 

Sterling looked to be blowing out of his ass too. Seemed really unfit. 

[downendcity]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Thats the only thing I can really find fault with. 

Sterling looked to be blowing out of his ass too. Seemed really unfit. 

You'd think he had missed a lot of training recently and was suffering the after effects of return flights back to the UK.

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

My mate summed it up: “bring on a bloke who’s more concerned about how many of his watches were nicked.”

Aren’t you a copper / ex copper?

Would have expected a little more empathy towards a victim of serious crime tbh

Completely agree that it was a poor sub though. It’s the first time I’ve really been critical of Southgate and can’t defend it. Mount and Sterling, then Grealish with a minute to go (albeit just because stones was injured) were poor choices considering the options we had.

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

Aren’t you a copper / ex copper?

Would have expected a little more empathy towards a victim of serious crime tbh

Completely agree that it was a poor sub though. It’s the first time I’ve really been critical of Southgate and can’t defend it. Mount and Sterling, then Grealish with a minute to go (albeit just because stones was injured) were poor choices considering the options we had.

To be fair mate, it was a joke. But yeh, awful sub. Best player for player in the worst form in the squad. 

[BigTone]

3 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

To be fair it was tongue in cheek. But it tickled me. 

I think I'd tell him to keep his tongue out of your cheeks if I were you.

Edited December 11, 2022 by BigTone

[RedRock]

VAR needs to explain its decision-making.

If they think the foul was outside the penalty box and there was no contact on the line or in the box, then say so. If they got it wrong, admit it.

Struth, Rugby refs explain their analysis and decision-making live, off a pitch side big screen that all the spectators can see. Put your ‘big boy pants’ on football. 
 

As we can see, conspiracy theorists have a field day otherwise. There’s a risk that  football is brought into disrepute and we can’t be having that, can we football administrators? 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

When you see how overwhelmingly obvious the penalty was were you not the slightest bit surprised it was not given immediately by the ref? because me and every other person in the pub last night was. He did not look like he was going to give it and was told to look at the monitor. obviously overall there was no conspiracy against us I was shocked that he himself never gave us it immediately.

I thought it looked like a pen at the time, but there were several reasons why I wasn’t entirely surprised when he didn’t initially give it.

1. He didn’t see it from the same angle I did. 

2. He’d allowed a fair amount of physical contact during the game so from the wrong viewpoint that might have looked more like a shoulder to shoulder, or less of a push.

3. I’d seen an almost identical challenge not given a few hours earlier at Rotherham.

4. I’m a Bristol City fan, so I’ve seen far more obvious ones not given! 

I’d have been shocked if he hadn’t given it after he had the opportunity to see the replay from different angles. 

[petehinton]

Perfect summation, but probably a hard to accept pill to swallow for many a fair weather. 

[italian dave]

19 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Perfect summation, but probably a hard to accept pill to swallow for many a fair weather. 

It’s a great summary, it’s hard to accept. But not entirely depressing because there’s cause for hope now, I feel. England is a good decade behind France in developing players, skills, a style,etc with the national team in mind. France started doing it in the late 1990s (when they weren’t that great at international level) but we only started a decade or so ago. And there’s plenty of evidence we’re headed in the right direction. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s a great summary, it’s hard to accept. But not entirely depressing because there’s cause for hope now, I feel. England is a good decade behind France in developing players, skills, a style,etc with the national team in mind. France started doing it in the late 1990s (when they weren’t that great at international level) but we only started a decade or so ago. And there’s plenty of evidence we’re headed in the right direction. 

Other countries too are behind England in their progress - Germany with their ageing team spring to mind along with Argentina, Belgium and, to a certain extent, Brazil and Portugal. The Netherlands are a bit of a puzzle and I don`t know enough about Italy TBH.

The one that I think do have their best years in front of them though is Spain.

[2015]

21 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It’s a great summary, it’s hard to accept. But not entirely depressing because there’s cause for hope now, I feel. England is a good decade behind France in developing players, skills, a style,etc with the national team in mind. France started doing it in the late 1990s (when they weren’t that great at international level) but we only started a decade or so ago. And there’s plenty of evidence we’re headed in the right direction. 

The French have majorly benefitted from its best players playing abroad and getting a taste of different styles of football.  Before 1998 a Major World Cup win seemed beyond them unlike Germany or Italy. The French have adopted the old Italian style of winning matches without necessarily having to dominate the other side, this is on the back of most of their players in the 90s playing in Serie A and the influence that the Italian game gave the French players that played there. Ever since France have generally (apart from Domenech era) been hard to beat and very defensive which in major tournaments tends to take you a long way. 

[Davefevs]

Just now, 2015 said:

The French have majorly benefitted from its best players playing abroad and getting a taste of different styles of football.  Before 1998 a Major World Cup win seemed beyond them unlike Germany or Italy. The French have adopted the old Italian style of winning matches without necessarily having to dominate the other side, this is on the back of most of their players in the 90s playing in Serie A and the influence that the Italian game gave the French players that played there. Ever since France have generally (apart from Domenech era) been hard to beat and very defensive which in major tournaments tends to take you a long way. 

The far too small in numbers English players who’ve gone abroad in my lifetime, seem to be better for it.

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The far too small in numbers English players who’ve gone abroad in my lifetime, seem to be better for it.

This is the trouble with the Premier League having all the money IMO.

[Red-Robbo]

18 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

The one that I think do have their best years in front of them though is Spain.

 

Not to mention the so-called 'emerging nations'. Morocco's performance shows that many have already 'emerged'.

The genie ain't going back in the lamp, and I reckon we'll see a non-European/South American world cup winner before long.  It isn't unconceivable that it'll be this year.  

[2015]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

The far too small in numbers English players who’ve gone abroad in my lifetime, seem to be better for it.

Absolutely. McManaman for example was a massive hit for Real Madrid and should have had much more England caps. 

Paul Ince came back a much better international player for England after his spell at Inter Milan in my opinion.

Even if you look at Chris Smalling, who has been exceptional for Roma in the last year or so and I think Southgate might have missed a trick there with his experience in the squad.

There just aren't enough English players who go and play abroad in my opinion still. Is it to do with the language? Do our players feel that Europe is the other side of the World as we are just an island? Or do the players just not want to test themselves abroad? 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

7 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

My mate summed it up: “bring on a bloke who’s more concerned about how many of his watches were nicked.”

I think he was more worried about the state of his family!

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, 2015 said:

The French have majorly benefitted from its best players playing abroad and getting a taste of different styles of football.  Before 1998 a Major World Cup win seemed beyond them unlike Germany or Italy. The French have adopted the old Italian style of winning matches without necessarily having to dominate the other side, this is on the back of most of their players in the 90s playing in Serie A and the influence that the Italian game gave the French players that played there. Ever since France have generally (apart from Domenech era) been hard to beat and very defensive which in major tournaments tends to take you a long way. 

Yes, I think that’s a really good point, - and something English players, and the England set up, would really benefit from.

Part of me wonders why it doesn’t happen more: with the Premier League attracting so much foreign talent you’d have thought younger English players might see opportunities further afield. It just seems to happen so rarely. Maybe it’s money. 

The French set up their equivalent of St George’s Park years before we did. That must have helped. As it’s helping us now. It encourages players to learn and understand the national team ethos, style, set up etc. It gives consistency, so that whether you’re playing abroad (Bellingham), whether you’re getting regular games for your club (Phillips), you’re still part of that England set up. 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Made the mistake of watching it in Shepton Mallet. Found myself surrounded by losers in blue-and-white clowns' outfits.

Precisely why Shepton is such a stronghold of Gassery, is unclear. It's nowhere near Gloucestershire. I put it down to being the most depressing town in the Mendips.

A depressing night all round. And a depressing hangover now. 

Perhaps their descendants were all released from the jail there after serving sentences for punching horses.

[Bris Red]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The far too small in numbers English players who’ve gone abroad in my lifetime, seem to be better for it.

100%. I really hope Bellingham stays away from the premier league as i feel he will be better for it. I hope he goes to Real Madrid over Liverpool or Man City.

[ExiledAjax]

51 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Even if you look at Chris Smalling, who has been exceptional for Roma in the last year or so and I think Southgate might have missed a trick there with his experience in the squad.

There just aren't enough English players who go and play abroad in my opinion still.

But the England coaching set up has to reward players that do go abroad. You mention Smalling, but Abraham has set records in Serie A and been rewarded with a bit part role in the England set up.

Bellingham has been picked whilst abroad, but he's different gravy. 

The evidence, the pathway, the record, the action all suggest that unless you are either a) truly exceptional (Bellingham) or b) already established in the England set up (Trippier), you need to play in the Prem to get picked. If you play abroad then you need to be one of those two things.

So it's a two sided coin. A chicken and egg scenario perhaps. Both the players and the coaches need to be willing to experiment.

[Super]

42 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

100%. I really hope Bellingham stays away from the premier league as i feel he will be better for it. I hope he goes to Real Madrid over Liverpool or Man City.

Liverpool seem very confident on him. 

[Lew-T]

It still hurts. We were the better side throughout last night, and the French goals came out of nothing really. Few of us said last night whoever wins this, will go on to win the tournament.

Once again it didn’t go our way. 

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

But the England coaching set up has to reward players that do go abroad. You mention Smalling, but Abraham has set records in Serie A and been rewarded with a bit part role in the England set up.

Bellingham has been picked whilst abroad, but he's different gravy. 

The evidence, the pathway, the record, the action all suggest that unless you are either a) truly exceptional (Bellingham) or b) already established in the England set up (Trippier), you need to play in the Prem to get picked. If you play abroad then you need to be one of those two things.

So it's a two sided coin. A chicken and egg scenario perhaps. Both the players and the coaches need to be willing to experiment.

I agree with a lot of what you say. You only have to look at Southgate’s obsession with picking Connor Coady for example.

Now im not saying Coady isn’t a decent centre half but is he really international level?

Should he really be getting a look in when you have Tomori playing Champions league football regularly and getting into the Serie A team of the year, and Smalling again who is again regularly playing in Europe  (winning the conference league with Roma last season) over a very average Premier League player not playing in Europe and nowhere near the team of the year in the Prem.

I think one or both of Tomori or Smalling would have been included in every one of the top countries world cup squads IMo yet Southgate overlooked them, madness.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bris Red

[ExiledAjax]

37 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

I agree with a lot of what you say. You only have to look at Southgate’s obsession with picking Connor Coady for example.

Now im not saying Coady isn’t a decent centre half but is he really international level?

Should he really be getting a look in when you have Tomori playing Champions league football regularly and getting into the Serie A team of the year, and Smalling again who is again regularly playing in Europe  (winning the conference league with Roma last season) over a very average Premier League player not playing in Europe and nowhere near the team of the year in the Prem.

I think one or both of Tomori or Smalling would have been included in every one of the top countries world cup squads IMo yet Southgate overlooked them, madness.

Thanks. I agree in so far as there needs to be a pathway for foreign-based players to get into the squad. One that doesn't require them to be either an existing Southgate favourite or a generational talent.

So let's say I am Ivan Toney, or James Maddison, or Marc Guehi, and I fancy getting into the Euro 2024 squad. I get an offer in the summer to go and play for...let's say Sevilla, or Lyon, or Napoli. It's more money, it's a fun foreign league, it's a chance to develop. But, my agent points me at Tomori, or Abraham, or Smalling and says "if you want to be picked for Germany '24 then you will have to play twice as well abroad as you will at Brentford, Palace or Leicester".

I probably stay playing in the Prem.

Now that's not bad, as the Prem is a very good, possibly even the best, league in terms of average player standard. But, if what we want is to develop a team that can win a tournament through bringing in a diverse footballing experience, it doesn't encourage me to go abroad.

Edited December 11, 2022 by ExiledAjax

[spudski]

Watching the WC it dawned on me, that much of ' European' football has reached some sort of pinnacle.

It's often laborious.

You can read the game and pretty much know where the ball is going to go. Where the players will position themselves. It's become like chess...certain moves ingrained...where they know it's 'safe'.

This happens both in defence and offence.

The teams playing less predictable football, more intensive, more individuality/ expression, willing to take risk, are often getting rewarded.

Lesser skilled players are doing this and outwitting higher skilled players, who are playing to a safe ingrained system.

I can see a shift in how football will be played in the not so distant future.

What saddens me, is that IMO, we have players in the England set up, that if given more freedom to express themselves, and do something out of the norm, then we could have taken advantage.

We played far to safe. 

 

[2015]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

Watching the WC it dawned on me, that much of ' European' football has reached some sort of pinnacle.

It's often laborious.

You can read the game and pretty much know where the ball is going to go. Where the players will position themselves. It's become like chess...certain moves ingrained...where they know it's 'safe'.

This happens both in defence and offence.

The teams playing less predictable football, more intensive, more individuality/ expression, willing to take risk, are often getting rewarded.

Lesser skilled players are doing this and outwitting higher skilled players, who are playing to a safe ingrained system.

I can see a shift in how football will be played in the not so distant future.

What saddens me, is that IMO, we have players in the England set up, that if given more freedom to express themselves, and do something out of the norm, then we could have taken advantage.

We played far to safe. 

 

Yep. Said this before a few weeks ago.

As for last night, the game was crying out for some of England's more unpredictable players to come on and do something different (Grealish, Maddison, Trent) but they were ignored really. Instead the safe options in Mount and Sterling were brought on.

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thanks. I agree in so far as there needs to be a pathway for foreign-based players to get into the squad. One that doesn't require them to be either an existing Southgate favourite or a generational talent.

So let's say I am Ivan Toney, or James Maddison, or Marc Guehi, and I fancy getting into the Euro 2024 squad. I get an offer in the summer to go and play for...let's say Sevilla, or Lyon, or Napoli. It's more money, it's a fun foreign league, it's a chance to develop. But, my agent points me at Tomori, or Abraham, or Smalling and says "if you want to be picked for Germany '24 then you will have to play twice as well abroad as you will at Brentford, Palace or Leicester".

I probably stay playing in the Prem.

Now that's not bad, as the Prem is a very good, possibly even the best, league in terms of average player standard. But, if what we want is to develop a team that can win a tournament through bringing in a diverse footballing experience, it doesn't encourage me to go abroad.

I do wonder if the FA are in Southgate's ear about using players who are playing abroad? Because I also find it hard to believe that the likes of Coady and Mings have regularly got picked over the likes of Tomori and Smalling. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

12 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

They did as much as they could without making it obvious, I am pretty sure it's a Messi V Mbappe final they want for the reasons given by @Mr Popodopolous. Despite being within 5 yards of the Mount penalty, he wasn't going to give it. VAR had to give it, to not give it would have raised suspicion higher. If Kane had scored, I am convinced there would have been a very dubious pro France decision further down the line. 

It's all arranged. At the final, Messi, Modric and a tearful, but wise, Ronaldo, will enter the stadium on camels, bearing gifts of gold, frankincense and Budweiser, following a bright, Iranian drone light way up in the desert sky, France will triumph and the Three Old Gits will crown Mbappe King of Football, as they are showered by a ticer tape shower of a billion dirty dollar bills. Putin will then have every non-Russian boy in the world slaughtered so they have half a chance of qualifying, and 3,000 Gas will be locked out of the final, with Gianni Infantino telling them to **** off back to League One. 

[Super]

1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

It still hurts. We were the better side throughout last night, and the French goals came out of nothing really. Few of us said last night whoever wins this, will go on to win the tournament.

Once again it didn’t go our way. 

I actually don't feel too bad obviously disappointed but I can handle going out playing well, What I couldn't handle was the way we went out against Iceland. 

[BigTone]

27 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It's all arranged. At the final, Messi, Modric and a tearful, but wise, Ronaldo, will enter the stadium on camels, bearing gifts of gold, frankincense and Budweiser, following a bright, Iranian drone light way up in the desert sky, France will triumph and the Three Old Gits will crown Mbappe King of Football, as they are showered by a ticer tape shower of a billion dirty dollar bills. Putin will then have every non-Russian boy in the world slaughtered so they have half a chance of qualifying, and 3,000 Gas will be locked out of the final, with Gianni Infantino telling them to **** off back to League One. 

You are obviously ITK. Some of the regular ITK' ers on here will be feeling a tad uneasy right now at your level of ITK-ness. However, as a means of self preservation they will respond with a conspiracy theory of some kind fuelled by a contact they have who is ITK.

Edited December 11, 2022 by BigTone

[Northern Red]

Smalling was dropped by Southgate almost as soon as he got the job, despite still being a regular starter in the Man Utd team at that point.

[W-S-M Seagull]

13 hours ago, downendcity said:

You'd think he had missed a lot of training recently and was suffering the after effects of return flights back to the UK.

Yea it's a 10 hour flight each way. Different time zones, different climates. Bound to take it's toll on the body. 

Just felt we should have either kept Saka on or brought someone else on rather than playing a player who through no fault of his own, wasn't up to the required fitness. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 hours ago, Super said:

Liverpool seem very confident on him. 

Oh no Liverpool fans would never accept their club spending that sort of money on players surely? 

Very much doubt their owners would be looking to spend that sort of money whilst they're trying to sell the club. 

It's either City, Chelsea or Real imo. 

[AshtonGreat]

18 hours ago, petehinton said:

Perfect summation, but probably a hard to accept pill to swallow for many a fair weather. 

France’s default level of courage? What does that actually mean?

[Super]

6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Oh no Liverpool fans would never accept their club spending that sort of money on players surely? 

Very much doubt their owners would be looking to spend that sort of money whilst they're trying to sell the club. 

It's either City, Chelsea or Real imo. 

He apparently wants to go to Liverpool. I do agree about the price though and his price has probably gone up again after this WC.

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

France’s default level of courage? What does that actually mean?

My reading of it is that it's quite a long-winded way of saying "success breeds success". He's saying, in flowery journalistic language, that France won because they won the moments, and they won the moments because they knew they would, and they knew they would because they've done it before and it is just what they do.

England are getting there but we need that one win, that little bit of luck that just gets us that trophy, and gives us that innate, concrete knowledge that we are good. Not belief, knowledge.

[MarcusX]

16 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

But the England coaching set up has to reward players that do go abroad. You mention Smalling, but Abraham has set records in Serie A and been rewarded with a bit part role in the England set up.

Bellingham has been picked whilst abroad, but he's different gravy. 

The evidence, the pathway, the record, the action all suggest that unless you are either a) truly exceptional (Bellingham) or b) already established in the England set up (Trippier), you need to play in the Prem to get picked. If you play abroad then you need to be one of those two things.

So it's a two sided coin. A chicken and egg scenario perhaps. Both the players and the coaches need to be willing to experiment.

I disagree, Tammy has his chances in the England squad. One can only conclude that he hasn’t impressed either on the pitch or off it. 
 

As for players going abroad, I’d imagine it’s also a case that the large majority of young lads grow up dreaming of playing in the Premier League so they’ll always chose that. Not forgetting that those teams abroad need to show an interest in players here also.

[AshtonGreat]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My reading of it is that it's quite a long-winded way of saying "success breeds success". He's saying, in flowery journalistic language, that France won because they won the moments, and they won the moments because they knew they would, and they knew they would because they've done it before and it is just what they do.

England are getting there but we need that one win, that little bit of luck that just gets us that trophy, and gives us that innate, concrete knowledge that we are good. Not belief, knowledge.

That's a fair reading of it. I still find it odd the way he's painted France and some kind of footballing superpower, when they achieved very little at the Euros last year

Edited December 12, 2022 by AshtonGreat

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

My reading of it is that it's quite a long-winded way of saying "success breeds success". He's saying, in flowery journalistic language, that France won because they won the moments, and they won the moments because they knew they would, and they knew they would because they've done it before and it is just what they do.

England are getting there but we need that one win, that little bit of luck that just gets us that trophy, and gives us that innate, concrete knowledge that we are good. Not belief, knowledge.

We seem to be in the same sort of situation as Man City are with the Champions league. 

France are like Real Madrid. They just somehow find a way to win. 

England are like City in the Champions league, always just falling short. 

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yea it's a 10 hour flight each way. Different time zones, different climates. Bound to take it's toll on the body. 

Just felt we should have either kept Saka on or brought someone else on rather than playing a player who through no fault of his own, wasn't up to the required fitness. 

Saka was done, he ran himself into the ground (and took some kickings) he had to come off. I agree Sterling was the wrong choose though as was Mount

[AshtonGreat]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We seem to be in the same sort of situation as Man City are with the Champions league. 

France are like Real Madrid. They just somehow find a way to win. 

England are like City in the Champions league, always just falling short. 

I'm not sure you can really compare France to Real Madrid