World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[MarcusX]

16 minutes ago, Super said:

He apparently wants to go to Liverpool. I do agree about the price though and his price has probably gone up again after this WC.

He’s probBly got a buy out clause

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

That's a fair reading of it. I still find it odd the way he's painted France and some kind of footballing superpower, when they achieved very little at the Euros last year

But even ‘superpowers’ don’t win everything! You’ll always be able to point to a match or a competition where things didn’t go to plan. That’s football, and it’s surprises.

But over the course of the past 25 years they’ve won the WC twice and been losing finalists once. They’ve won the Euros, and been losing finalists once. They’ve won the Confederations Cup twice and the UEFA nations league. They are the only European team to have won every possible FIFA competition.

I’d say they are up there with the best. 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

That's a fair reading of it. I still find it odd the way he's painted France and some kind of footballing superpower, when they achieved very little at the Euros last year

France are heading for their fourth world cup final in the past seven tournaments. If that doesn't qualify them as a footballing superpower, then not sure what does.

[2015]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

That's a fair reading of it. I still find it odd the way he's painted France and some kind of footballing superpower, when they achieved very little at the Euros last year

The players they've produced and the Tournaments they have won would suggest they definitely are a Footballing superpower. We're not on their level, sadly. We're probably more similar to Denmark than France and that's the sad truth.

[Super]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Saka was done, he ran himself into the ground (and took some kickings) he had to come off. I agree Sterling was the wrong choose though as was Mount

I couldn't help thinking with that free kick at the end that is was perfect for Trent.

[maxjak]

Reports are just coming in that a window has been smashed on the Hubble  Space Station..........reports  suggest it was the ball from Kanes's penalty?    Nothing personal Harry, as I am a big fan of yours.    

Edited December 12, 2022 by maxjak

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

Saka was done, he ran himself into the ground (and took some kickings) he had to come off. I agree Sterling was the wrong choose though as was Mount

Although Mount earned us the penalty.

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

My reading of it is that it's quite a long-winded way of saying "success breeds success". He's saying, in flowery journalistic language, that France won because they won the moments, and they won the moments because they knew they would, and they knew they would because they've done it before and it is just what they do.

England are getting there but we need that one win, that little bit of luck that just gets us that trophy, and gives us that innate, concrete knowledge that we are good. Not belief, knowledge.

Good to hear a logical assessment, instead of pretentious journalistic egotism.  You are spot on.

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Reports are just coming in that a window has been smashed on the Hubble  Space Station..........reports  suggest in was the ball from Kanes's penalty?    Nothing personal Harry, as I am a big fan of yours.    

 

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

France are heading for their fourth world cup final in the past seven tournaments. If that doesn't qualify them as a footballing superpower, then not sure what does.

Plus a Euros win in 2000 and reaching the 2016 final of that tournament as well.

Bar the Spanish team of the late 2000's and early 2010's they are pretty comfortably the dominant European football team of the last thirty years.

[Bristol Oil Services]

38 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Although Mount earned us the penalty.

He made a run into the box, have another 20 caps. The French lad did the rest. Me and you could (still, just about) do what Mount did there.

When Mount had the ball 25 yards out and needed to hit it, with everything right, his momentum, his central position etc he hit it like a bobbins Championship or L1 player. 

Mount is Southgate on the pitch. No opponent worries about facing Mason bloody Mount.

Not having a pop at you, Fevs, just singling Mount out for some flak!

[Bristol Oil Services]

44 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Good to hear a logical assessment, instead of pretentious journalistic egotism.  You are spot on.

No, no. France just knew Kane would "Tomlin" it into the stand. It's what comes with being France or whatever the fella wrote

[Bristol Oil Services]

15 hours ago, BigTone said:

You are obviously ITK. Some of the regular ITK' ers on here will be feeling a tad uneasy right now at your level of ITK-ness. However, as a means of self preservation they will respond with a conspiracy theory of some kind fuelled by a contact they have who is ITK.

Some of us are visited by angels, some of us just know a bloke that knows a bloke that locks up the HPC at night .... 

[Bris Red]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Plus a Euros win in 2000 and reaching the 2016 final of that tournament as well.

Bar the Spanish team of the late 2000's and early 2010's they are pretty comfortably the dominant European football team of the last thirty years.

Indeed. I think people just need to accept where we are as a nation, we have come a long way since the disgraceful night against Iceland in Euro 2016.

As Southgate said yesterday we are finally dining at the top table of European and World football. Belows is Germany’s world cup record - it just shows how consistently you need to keep getting to semi - finals and finals…

Germany record in World Cup

4 time Champion (second same with Italy).

4 time runner up (record).

4 time third place (record).

13 time semi-finalists appearance (record).

8 time finals appearance (record).

As @spudski has said France are heading to their fourth final in seven tournaments, as a nation we still have a long way to go to replicate them or the Germans but we do seem to be heading in the right direction for the first time in my life time..

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

He made a run into the box, have another 20 caps. The French lad did the rest. Me and you could (still, just about) do what Mount did there.

When Mount had the ball 25 yards out and needed to hit it, with everything right, his momentum, his central position etc he hit it like a bobbins Championship or L1 player. 

Mount is Southgate on the pitch. No opponent worries about facing Mason bloody Mount.

Not having a pop at you, Fevs, just singling Mount out for some flak!

I’m no fan of Mount either, just pointing out he earned us a pen. Although I thought the fluidity of our attacking midfield three (which inc him) v Iran was good.  He needs to do more overall though.  You can see why Saka, Rashford and Foden have moved ahead of him though.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

I'm not sure you can really compare France to Real Madrid

I'm sure you can based on the achievements other posters have outlined. 

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We seem to be in the same sort of situation as Man City are with the Champions league. 

France are like Real Madrid. They just somehow find a way to win. 

England are like City in the Champions league, always just falling short. 

Shit, when did we qualify for the Champions League?

[LondonBristolian]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m no fan of Mount either, just pointing out he earned us a pen. Although I thought the fluidity of our attacking midfield three (which inc him) v Iran was good.  He needs to do more overall though.  You can see why Saka, Rashford and Foden have moved ahead of him though.

I think it worth saying is as well that he still 23. He certainly didn't have a great tournament, he needs to up his goals and/or assists and I don't think there is a case for him as a first choice starter for England at present but I think he is (deservedly) going to be part of the England set-up for a good many years to come. 

[SecretSam]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m no fan of Mount either, just pointing out he earned us a pen. Although I thought the fluidity of our attacking midfield three (which inc him) v Iran was good.  He needs to do more overall though.  You can see why Saka, Rashford and Foden have moved ahead of him though.

Can someone explain to me what Mount is for? Lots rave about him. I just don't see it.

[LondonBristolian]

50 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Can someone explain to me what Mount is for? Lots rave about him. I just don't see it.

My feeling is he's someone who managers and players will like more than fans in that, based off the impression given by managers, what he does well is execute the manager's tactical plan is the way they want it implemented but without being especially spectacular in doing so. But you could say the same about Jordan Henderson, who was racked up over 300 Liverpool appearances, a Premier League and Champions League medal and an international cup final without most fans working out what he is good at. (Mount obviously has the Champions League win and tournament final appearance too).

In Bristol City terminology, I think he's a bit like Matty James. James' contribution during games isn't always obvious but it was very obvious how much worse we were tactically when he was injured. 

[Rob k]

Getting on my nerves how people keep saying ‘well France scored twice from open play’…..so what? 
If they didn’t keep fouling our players then so might we have. 

[SecretSam]

17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

My feeling is he's someone who managers and players will like more than fans in that, based off the impression given by managers, what he does well is execute the manager's tactical plan is the way they want it implemented but without being especially spectacular in doing so. But you could say the same about Jordan Henderson, who was racked up over 300 Liverpool appearances, a Premier League and Champions League medal and an international cup final without most fans working out what he is good at. (Mount obviously has the Champions League win and tournament final appearance too).

In Bristol City terminology, I think he's a bit like Matty James. James' contribution during games isn't always obvious but it was very obvious how much worse we were tactically when he was injured. 

An 'engine room' player, then, like Carrick was?

[exAtyeoMax]

23 hours ago, petehinton said:

Perfect summation, but probably a hard to accept pill to swallow for many a fair weather. 

I get what the writer is trying to say but instinct and will can't control the officials or the opposition, or freak moments of play (like injuries). Or HK missing a penalty.

I would just say England gave France too much space to play, while France were on the England players whenever they had the ball. 

[GlastonburyRed]

50 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

My feeling is he's someone who managers and players will like more than fans in that, based off the impression given by managers, what he does well is execute the manager's tactical plan is the way they want it implemented but without being especially spectacular in doing so. But you could say the same about Jordan Henderson, who was racked up over 300 Liverpool appearances, a Premier League and Champions League medal and an international cup final without most fans working out what he is good at. (Mount obviously has the Champions League win and tournament final appearance too).

In Bristol City terminology, I think he's a bit like Matty James. James' contribution during games isn't always obvious but it was very obvious how much worse we were tactically when he was injured. 

Cole Skuse vibes, you don't make that many career appearances without being a valuable member of a team.

[paul james]

Different Ref different result he was very poor

[Davefevs]

44 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Getting on my nerves how people keep saying ‘well France scored twice from open play’…..so what? 
If they didn’t keep fouling our players then so might we have. 

Reminds me of the 2002 Rugby WC semi.  French moaning we only got our points from the boot of Wilkinson, and they scored the only try.  I’m no rugby officianado but easy to claim that if you concede a penalty instead of giving us the chance of a try.  24-7!!!!

[italian dave]

15 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Cole Skuse vibes, you don't make that many career appearances without being a valuable member of a team.

Absolutely. Marlon Pack too. You don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone……as that well known football pundit Joni Mitchellput it! 

Edited December 12, 2022 by italian dave

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Absolutely. Marlon Pack too. You don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone……as that well known football pundit Joni Mitchellput it! 

A little known fact about that song is that it also has a reference to Eastville in it.

`They paved paradise and put up a parking lot`...................................................................

[Talk Of The Town]

Mason is a good player but in poor form.

Hes only 23 an all.

 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, SecretSam said:

An 'engine room' player, then, like Carrick was?

Exactly. 

[BigTone]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Absolutely. Marlon Pack too. You don’t know what you’ve got til it’s gone……as that well known football pundit Joni Mitchellput it! 

Exactly !!  Zayn Malik & One Direction

Edited December 12, 2022 by BigTone

[Super]

Watching Sunderland v WBA dire game with Zero atmosphere. Roll on the semi finals.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Watching Sunderland v WBA dire game with Zero atmosphere. Roll on the semi finals.

It is lacking isn`t it? Especially since Sunderland are one up. Lots of empty seats too.

[Super]

1 minute ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

It is lacking isn`t it? Especially since Sunderland are one up. Lots of empty seats too.

Not a good sign when you can hear the players. Maybe its the weather.

[Ziderarmy]

25 minutes ago, Super said:

Not a good sign when you can hear the players. Maybe its the weather.

Cost of living crisis and Christmas coming up won’t help. 

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, Super said:

Not a good sign when you can hear the players. Maybe its the weather.

Weather to pay the heating bills or weather to go to the football, but can't afford to do both! 

[Port Said Red]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Reminds me of the 2002 Rugby WC semi.  French moaning we only got our points from the boot of Wilkinson, and they scored the only try.  I’m no rugby officianado but easy to claim that if you concede a penalty instead of giving us the chance of a try.  24-7!!!!

Exactly this. That journalist that was quoted, claiming that France kept their discipline, that's not what I saw. They seemed panicked and made ridiculous challenges every time we looked dangerous. A better referee would have given more free kicks, particularly that crucial one, and there would have been two sent off. Hernandez for the penalty and Greizmann who was given the benefit of the doubt twice after being booked.

[Super]

Looking forward to tonight. Probably in a minority but i want Argentina to win.

[The Journalist]

On 11/12/2022 at 15:05, petehinton said:

Perfect summation, but probably a hard to accept pill to swallow for many a fair weather. 

The discipline line is nonsense, but the sentiment is a really interesting one.

Quite a good one to relate it to is the England white-ball cricket team IMO - they've elevated themselves to such an elite, world-class level whereby big games have become more run of the mill.

Since 2018, just think of the number of must-win games they've come out on top in - even in the 2019 and 2022 World Cups when they lost a couple of iffy group matches, when they HAD to win they found a way - either by keeping it together under pressure or, as was the case in the two semi-finals, absolutely blowing the other team away.

That's what the absolute top teams do. The England football team don't... and that's the difference.

[MarcusX]

23 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Although Mount earned us the penalty.

Indeed, however I did see someone suggest (and I think I agree) that had we not got the penalty we may have gone on to get an equaliser anyway. The penalty deflated us a bit despite there still being another 10-12 minutes after, until then we were on top - even their second came mostly against the run of play. Caught us napping for a minute, think we should have defended the cross better.

[MarcusX]

 

Thought this was a pretty fair assessment, and how I saw it especially watching it back again as well

[Sir Geoff]

5 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Indeed, however I did see someone suggest (and I think I agree) that had we not got the penalty we may have gone on to get an equaliser anyway. The penalty deflated us a bit despite there still being another 10-12 minutes after, until then we were on top - even their second came mostly against the run of play. Caught us napping for a minute, think we should have defended the cross better.

No think about it. Why the flip did Stones not jump and attempt to clear it. Even if its over his head by jumping he obstructs Girouds vision. Maguire defo sleeping to let Giroud get ahead of him.

[Sir Geoff]

Anyone else lost interest in the WC ?  personally thinking more about the Stoke game now than the three WC games. Just hoping for a Morocco / Croatia final as a final two fingers to FIFA.

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

No think about it. Why the flip did Stones not jump and attempt to clear it. Even if its over his head by jumping he obstructs Girouds vision. Maguire defo sleeping to let Giroud get ahead of him.

I do think we could have defended better but it's a fantastic cross in fairness.

[Super]

Just now, Sir Geoff said:

Anyone else lost interest in the WC ?  personally thinking more about the Stoke game now than the three WC games. Just hoping for a Morocco / Croatia final as a final two fingers to FIFA.

No i'm really looking forward to the Semi Finals and the Final. Finding it hard to get back into the league games tbh last nights game was pretty depressing i thought.

[BCFCGav]

3 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Anyone else lost interest in the WC ?  personally thinking more about the Stoke game now than the three WC games. Just hoping for a Morocco / Croatia final as a final two fingers to FIFA.

Saturday's two results made me turn so quickly from international back to club football I almost got whiplash. That said I'll still watch the semi's and final, if only because there's bugger all else on. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

No think about it. Why the flip did Stones not jump and attempt to clear it. Even if its over his head by jumping he obstructs Girouds vision. Maguire defo sleeping to let Giroud get ahead of him.

Shame Maguire deflected it, probably straight at Pickford otherwise.

[ExiledAjax]

21 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

 

Thought this was a pretty fair assessment, and how I saw it especially watching it back again as well

Interesting. And he makes the same point about winning moments, and being confident in the knowledge that you are good.

 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

The discipline line is nonsense, but the sentiment is a really interesting one.

Quite a good one to relate it to is the England white-ball cricket team IMO - they've elevated themselves to such an elite, world-class level whereby big games have become more run of the mill.

Since 2018, just think of the number of must-win games they've come out on top in - even in the 2019 and 2022 World Cups when they lost a couple of iffy group matches, when they HAD to win they found a way - either by keeping it together under pressure or, as was the case in the two semi-finals, absolutely blowing the other team away.

That's what the absolute top teams do. The England football team don't... and that's the difference.

Your point is correct when you refer to THIS England team. We are almost there but not quite. Previous England teams including the so called Golden Generation have not been close despite all the hype. What’s missing is that extra 2% of quality and belief that the very best have. France made their two spells where they were on top count, we only did it once. That’s the game and the difference at the very highest level in a nutshell.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Your point is correct when you refer to THIS England team. We are almost there but not quite. Previous England teams including the so called Golden Generation have not been close despite all the hype. What’s missing is that extra 2% of quality and belief that the very best have. France made their two spells where they were on top count, we only did it once. That’s the game and the difference at the very highest level in a nutshell.

Probably posted this elsewhere, but we usually go out with a whimper….we didn’t this time, that’s the difference.  From listening to Southgate I think he knows that with our midfield (the emergence of Bellingham as a starter) playing the extra man in there rather than at the back is the way forward.  We can tactically match up with a team like France now and take the game to them.  That is the real positive for me.  It’s about little tweaks now.

[Rob k]

Sounding like Southgate has decided to stay on

[cidercity1987]

(352) Germany v England | 2010 FIFA World Cup | Match Highlights - YouTube

 

I watched that last night

Pretty close to the perfect response to anyone who wants Southgate out

Hard to create a 'team' with so little time and that lot above look like a total mess

[The Journalist]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Your point is correct when you refer to THIS England team. We are almost there but not quite. Previous England teams including the so called Golden Generation have not been close despite all the hype. What’s missing is that extra 2% of quality and belief that the very best have. France made their two spells where they were on top count, we only did it once. That’s the game and the difference at the very highest level in a nutshell.

Oh yeah, I didn't really mean that to sound quite as negative as it did reading back - the extra 1% or 2% is the most difficult to find and only the really special teams have it.

I was more using the comparison to illustrate what that extra bit of quality/knowing how to win/ability to perform when it matters amounts to.

Edited December 13, 2022 by The Journalist

[Kid in the Riot]

8 minutes ago, Rob k said:

Sounding like Southgate has decided to stay on

Before the tournament started I'd assumed he leave at the end of it, no matter what.

But given I can't see any obvious alternatives at the moment, it seems sensible for him to stay on till Euro 2024, especially given that tournament is only 18 months away.

[SecretSam]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Anyone else lost interest in the WC ?  personally thinking more about the Stoke game now than the three WC games. Just hoping for a Morocco / Croatia final as a final two fingers to FIFA.

That would be hilarious, would love to see Modric win the WC

[BigTone]

4 hours ago, Super said:

Looking forward to tonight. Probably in a minority but i want Argentina to win.

No, no, no

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Your point is correct when you refer to THIS England team. We are almost there but not quite. Previous England teams including the so called Golden Generation have not been close despite all the hype. What’s missing is that extra 2% of quality and belief that the very best have. France made their two spells where they were on top count, we only did it once. That’s the game and the difference at the very highest level in a nutshell.

Don't start me on them. The real 'gold' in there was Scholes, but all the focus was on Gerrard and Lampard. And Captain Moneybags.

Where was Carrick in that equation? HE was the answer to the "Gerrard and Lampard" question: instead it should have been "Gerrard OR Lampard plus Carrick"

[Gert Mare]

Tactically, Deschamps did a job on us aided by us failing to play to our strengths as much as we should have done. I bet Deschamps thought it was Christmas when at 1-0 down in the first half we decided to move forward and then trot back to the halfway line and tap it across the back 4 for 20 minutes like City used to do under Lee Johnson, allowing them all the time in the world to reorganise at the back? 

Both of the French goals were swift and clinical (like ours were against Iran). For the second goal we'd allowed Giroud a free head less than a minute before we allowed him a second one which he duly dispatched past Pickford. The way to get past England is to give them little time to think and Deschamps knew this. If only we had broken more like the French I feel we would have ended up with more than just the 2 penalties influencing the final score.

Also, off the ball, the French had much better movement. When they were in possession Griezmann found pockets of space. I looked at the movement of Rice when England were in possession and he was sat on the shoulder of his marker.

Southgate was playing the long game. He was hoping that we'd somehow make it to extra time and then hit them with fresh fire power and win through. Unfortunately, we ran out of time.

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Gert Mare

[cidercity1987]

11 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Before the tournament started I'd assumed he leave at the end of it, no matter what.

But given I can't see any obvious alternatives at the moment, it seems sensible for him to stay on till Euro 2024, especially given that tournament is only 18 months away.

There was no shame and no glory in our tournament. A halfway house of confusion when yes I agree, any outcome other than acceptable failure would have led to Southgates exit

 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Don't start me on them. The real 'gold' in there was Scholes, but all the focus was on Gerrard and Lampard. And Captain Moneybags.

Amen, brother

Where was Carrick in that equation? HE was the answer to the "Gerrard and Lampard" question: instead it should have been "Gerrard OR Lampard plus Carrick"

burn the witch

 

[pillred]

Apart from hoping against hope that Morocco can spring a huge surprise and win the world cup I have no interest really in seeing any of the other 3 sides lift the trophy maybe at a push of the others Croatia but I'm really disappointed at the sides left in and am finding it hard to rustle up much enthusiasm for the remaining ties.  

[Super]

30 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Don't start me on them. The real 'gold' in there was Scholes, but all the focus was on Gerrard and Lampard. And Captain Moneybags.

Where was Carrick in that equation? HE was the answer to the "Gerrard and Lampard" question: instead it should have been "Gerrard OR Lampard plus Carrick"

It was down to playing 4-4-2 which was the problem. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

It was down to playing 4-4-2 which was the problem. 

We were robbed of Owen Hargreaves…would’ve been an absolute star imho.

[The Bard]

Eriksen was an absolute bluffer. 

Unable to deal with players who questioned him (Mcmanaman, Southgate) and allowed the Man Utd players to rule the roost leading to a divided dressing room.

 

How Beckham ended up captain was more due to public popularity than leadership skills. 

 

Erikksen was happy to be paid millions for about 40 days work a year. Our useless FA and media fawning over him.

 

Southgate has done a markedly better job with lesser players whilst putting up with all sorts of shit from outside.  

Virtually all the criticism Southgate receives is myopic and without any context. Context being our performances in 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016. That's the shit show he took over from. 

 

[Port Said Red]

It's started already. Awful challenge on a Croatian player, ref waves play on, slight bump on Messi seconds later, free kick. FIFA will get their preferred final if they can.

[cidercity1987]

I'm not over Saturday

We were the best team in the tournament by a distance unlike 2018 and 2021, none of the other teams would have been capable of beating us

[Midred]

12 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It's started already. Awful challenge on a Croatian player, ref waves play on, slight bump on Messi seconds later, free kick. FIFA will get their preferred final if they can.

If you don't throw yourself to the ground it's not a foul!

[italian dave]

12 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It's started already. Awful challenge on a Croatian player, ref waves play on, slight bump on Messi seconds later, free kick. FIFA will get their preferred final if they can.

The referee played advantage. Arguably should have spoken to the offender, but he was right to wave play on.

[Super]

Penalty

[robin_unreliant]

11 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

I'm not over Saturday

We were the best team in the tournament by a distance unlike 2018 and 2021, none of the other teams would have been capable of beating us

I'm confused. Didn't one of them do exactly that?