Kalas - still struggling for fitness

[Shuffle]

[GrahamC]

Without being over dramatic if he can’t get himself back on the pitch by the end of the calendar year then you have to start to wonder if he can at all.

By then he’ll have been out for 9 months, save for 2 brief sub appearances & we all know he’s a top two earner at the club, so no way is he getting a new offer based on 22/23.

Have to hope the news re Naismith is much brighter than this.

Edited November 26, 2022 by GrahamC

[Red-Robbo]

This is one of those injuries that turns out to be much worse than the medical team thought at first.  Or maybe we rushed him back too fast with those cameo appearances, but even they came after a big lay-off. 

[And Its Smith]

He will be gone by August no question. As will Wells, Bentley, Massengo and Scott.  Others are more in doubt as will depend if they are happy to sign a new contract on reduced terms, but those 5 are definite 

Edit: and Martin will be gone. 6 definite 

Edited November 26, 2022 by And Its Smith

[glynriley]

Did hear last week he was set to go under the knife again, although the fact he’s on holiday presumably makes that BS. 
 

Heard the same re Benarous as well. Hopefully both those nuggets of info are wrong. 

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, glynriley said:

Did hear last week he was set to go under the knife again, although the fact he’s on holiday presumably makes that BS. 
 

Heard the same re Benarous as well. Hopefully both those nuggets of info are wrong. 

Hope Not re benarous,, him and scott look great,, if scott goes, benarous coming in would soften the blow significantly 

[spudski]

6 hours ago, Shuffle said:

I saw that post, and the photos he put up.

I was surprised they went to swim and meet the captured trained dolphins.

Perhaps they haven't been educated on how those dolphins are captured and treated.

Anyone who's watched ' the Cove'...will understand.

[The Saturday Boy]

37 minutes ago, spudski said:

I saw that post, and the photos he put up.

I was surprised they went to swim and meet the captured trained dolphins.

Perhaps they haven't been educated on how those dolphins are captured and treated.

Anyone who's watched ' the Cove'...will understand.

Totally agree with you. No need for any animals to be treated this way. More education needed.

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Masala said:

Totally agree with you. No need for any animals to be treated this way. More education needed.

Definitely...animal tourism is so cruel.

The Cove documentary is a must see.

[The Saturday Boy]

8 minutes ago, spudski said:

Definitely...animal tourism is so cruel.

The Cove documentary is a must see.

I've commented on his Instagram post. He was slightly defensive. He reckons they are rescued. Still they had to be trained to be held by humans - they wouldn't do it naturally. 

[spudski]

15 minutes ago, Masala said:

I've commented on his Instagram post. He was slightly defensive. He reckons they are rescued. Still they had to be trained to be held by humans - they wouldn't do it naturally. 

You've only got to look at the aqua park where he is, to see these animals are trained to do tricks and are there for entertainment, rather than being looked after.

Hopefully by making a point, he and others will question and think about it.

Everyone makes mistakes...I regret riding on an Elephant on Sri Lanka, before I got educated.

Edited November 26, 2022 by spudski

[frenchred]

The blokes on holiday FFS, give him a break!

[spudski]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

The blokes on holiday FFS, give him a break!

Seriously? That's exactly why animals are captured, tortured etc...for people to be entertained whilst on holiday.

 

[joe jordans teeth]

12 minutes ago, frenchred said:

The blokes on holiday FFS, give him a break!

Cmon mate he could afford to go absolutely anywhere but as above it’s for humans fun.

[joe jordans teeth]

27 minutes ago, spudski said:

You've only got to look at the aqua park where he is, to see these animals are trained to do tricks and are there for entertainment, rather than being looked after.

Hopefully by making a point, he and others will question and think about it.

Everyone makes mistakes...I regret riding on an Elephant on Sri Lanka, before I got educated.

Why would he care,he isn’t a bleeding kid so unless he is a bit of a plum he would know that certain animals shouldn’t be rescued 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why would he care,he isn’t a bleeding kid so unless he is a bit of a plum he would know that certain animals shouldn’t be rescued 

Sadly...There's a lot of people who are uneducated on such things. 

All they are interested in, is money, holidays, material possessions, and sharing it on social media. 

There are a lot of footballers that fall into this category.

I'm not saying it's the case with Kalas...but there are many that simply aren't interested in such information.

Blimey...you've only got to look at China and it's populations ignorance to shark fins.

Some are either ignorant or want to turn a blind eye...as showing others on social media you are eating it or exploiting it, is more important.

[joe jordans teeth]

33 minutes ago, spudski said:

Sadly...There's a lot of people who are uneducated on such things. 

All they are interested in, is money, holidays, material possessions, and sharing it on social media. 

There are a lot of footballers that fall into this category.

I'm not saying it's the case with Kalas...but there are many that simply aren't interested in such information.

Blimey...you've only got to look at China and it's populations ignorance to shark fins.

Some are either ignorant or want to turn a blind eye...as showing others on social media you are eating it or exploiting it, is more important.

I am lucky enough to have been able to free swim back in my youth with them when they struggled to catch me up ,joking aside it’s disgusting to see them in a pen which is what it is to all when you see how they are kept 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

I am lucky enough to have been able to free swim back in my youth with them when they struggled to catch me up ,joking aside it’s disgusting to see them in a pen which is what it is to all when you see how they are kept 

I had similar experiences when surfing in OZ. Stunning intelligent creatures. 

[Super]

Classic OTIB 

[Guest]

Back to Kalas

There must be more to this than meets the eye, why is he still not fit, something wrong with the rehab? Something wrong with the op?
 

I fear we won’t see him in a red shirt again, and if he is not fit by the time his contract ends aren’t the club liable to continue paying him until he is deemed fit?

[bpexile]

2 hours ago, Masala said:

I've commented on his Instagram post. He was slightly defensive. He reckons they are rescued. Still they had to be trained to be held by humans - they wouldn't do it naturally. 

I hate seeing animals in this way, rescued is fine then release them if possible. However I have had wild dolphins & seals come close to my boat while fishing & actually stroked a dolphin (amazing & beautiful creatures) though I wouldn't try a seal with their teeth.

Admittedly its not the same as being held & I agree with the point you make 

Edited November 26, 2022 by bpexile

[lenred]

20 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Back to Kalas

There must be more to this than meets the eye, why is he still not fit, something wrong with the rehab? Something wrong with the op?
 

I fear we won’t see him in a red shirt again, and if he is not fit by the time his contract ends aren’t the club liable to continue paying him until he is deemed fit?

I’m interested to know why he’s on holiday when he’s injured.   Surely he should be working with the club medics every day until he is fit? Or am I missing something obvious? 

[GrahamC]

9 minutes ago, lenred said:

I’m interested to know why he’s on holiday when he’s injured.   Surely he should be working with the club medics every day until he is fit? Or am I missing something obvious? 

Dave Rennie is no idiot, maybe the best solution here is to rest?

Or he has another operation scheduled in soon?

The conspiracy theory (not you) above is bonkers, how could we possibly gain by not playing him? If that was the case then why did he feature against Millwall & WBA?

It appears a frustrating, difficult injury to solve, I think that’s all.

36 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Back to Kalas

There must be more to this than meets the eye, why is he still not fit, something wrong with the rehab? Something wrong with the op?
 

I fear we won’t see him in a red shirt again, and if he is not fit by the time his contract ends aren’t the club liable to continue paying him until he is deemed fit?

No.

[joe jordans teeth]

19 minutes ago, lenred said:

I’m interested to know why he’s on holiday when he’s injured.   Surely he should be working with the club medics every day until he is fit? Or am I missing something obvious? 

Depends on his injury,can’t imagine shooting off half way round the world would be a benefit tho 

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Dave Rennie is no idiot, maybe the best solution here is to rest?

Or he has another operation scheduled in soon?

The conspiracy theory (not you) above is bonkers, how could we possibly gain by not playing him? If that was the case then why did he feature against Millwall & WBA?

It appears a frustrating, difficult injury to solve, I think that’s all.

No.

Think he had groin/hip last season into the summer, whilst thinking he could go through little bit of pain in the knee.  Perhaps the pain in the groin, masked the true pain of the knee, so an op (small procedure) was needed. Came back from that, but picked up a calf strain.

Shit happens, doesn’t it.

I don’t see a bloke trying to get through his final season with as little action as possible. Nige obviously thinks a lot of Kalas, so just one of those things.  Bet Kalas, Nige and Rennie are pretty frustrated.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Davefevs

[lenred]

42 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Dave Rennie is no idiot, maybe the best solution here is to rest?

Or he has another operation scheduled in soon?

The conspiracy theory (not you) above is bonkers, how could we possibly gain by not playing him? If that was the case then why did he feature against Millwall & WBA?

It appears a frustrating, difficult injury to solve, I think that’s all.

No.

Cheers. Yes I wasn’t trying to cast aspersions at all, just wondering if I’d missed something obvious.  If RnR is the best / current solution then so be it.  Annoying but can’t be helped.   

[spudski]

4 hours ago, Masala said:

I've commented on his Instagram post. He was slightly defensive. He reckons they are rescued. Still they had to be trained to be held by humans - they wouldn't do it naturally. 

I've read his response.

Tbh...he comes across in his response as ' entitled '. 

Other ' celebrities ' have done the very same thing as him, at the same place, and had ' followers' bring up the same information for them to understand. PETA even got involved and sent them information.

Some responded positively on being ' educated'.

His reply re them being rescued just goes to show his ignorance.

Even if they were rescued...you return them to the wild. If you can't...you don't ' train' them to be clowns for our entertainment. ' training'...is torture and deprivement. 

But let's not let that get in the way of a good photo opportunity to share on social media.

I'm hoping he's just ignorant or dumb...rather than arrogant and entitled.

Just because he's our player...if it was anyone else, the same would be approached.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

12 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

He will be gone by August no question. As will Wells, Bentley, Massengo and Scott.  Others are more in doubt as will depend if they are happy to sign a new contract on reduced terms, but those 5 are definite 

Edit: and Martin will be gone. 6 definite 

Where do get such definite Information from ?

 

[And Its Smith]

17 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Where do get such definite Information from ?

 

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

[frenchred]

17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

So not definite then!

[Cityboy1954]

14 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

He will be gone by August no question. As will Wells, Bentley, Massengo and Scott.  Others are more in doubt as will depend if they are happy to sign a new contract on reduced terms, but those 5 are definite 

Edit: and Martin will be gone. 6 definite 

Yeh agree another Nathan Baker goodbye .

[Rocking Red Cyril]

7 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

Well many things seem obvious in football to the supporter and are far from what actually happens. Where has Scott said he leaving too ? 

So my point again is nothing definite there. 

[GrahamC]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

I think you’re largely right, if you think about it for five minutes you can make fairly educated guesses.

However we do have Scott on a long contract so someone is going to have to pay very big money, Kalas is going to struggle to get any offers if he can’t get back on the pitch & Wells will be 33 by then so we might have a chance on a much reduced deal if we want him.

Spot on about the rest, there are a fair few others out of contract too or who we have an option on, Semenyo, O’Leary, Vyner, King, Klose, plus 2 out on loan In Owura Edwards & Taylor Moore, so it is going to be a summer of big change.

Edited November 27, 2022 by GrahamC

[Packman]

I'm guessing everyone commenting about the treatment of animals on this page are all vegan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fordy62]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

That’s a massive amount of money isn’t it? Hopefully we can reclaim our mantle of plucky underdogs. 

[And Its Smith]

26 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

That’s a massive amount of money isn’t it? Hopefully we can reclaim our mantle of plucky underdogs. 

Between £4-5m per year in wages for sure and if we get around £15m for Scott happy days.

Mystic Dave signing off for now 

[Lanterne Rouge]

34 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Between £4-5m per year in wages for sure and if we get around £15m for Scott happy days.

Mystic Dave signing off for now 

When will you be back? Or don`t you know?

[The Saturday Boy]

4 hours ago, Packman said:

I'm guessing everyone commenting about the treatment of animals on this page are all vegan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am. And a volunteer for Sea Shepherd and have been to Italy and Iceland this year on campaigns. Anyway, back to Kalas

[kernored]

4 hours ago, Packman said:

 

 

I am NOT a vegan, but think that animals should not be held in captivity to the please of tourists, Any one who thinks they are well treated is very naive,.

[Kid in the Riot]

37 minutes ago, kernored said:

I am NOT a vegan, but think that animals should not be held in captivity to the please of tourists, Any one who thinks they are well treated is very naive,.

That's all very well, but there is more than a hint of hypocrisy that as a meat eater you accept that eating animals that have been electrocuted, shot with bolt guns, had their throats slit, or in the case of chickens gassed, is OK due to your dietary preference. 

This hypocrisy is hard for people to acknowledge as we're indoctrinated from a very young age that farm animals are "meat" and dolphins, lions, giraffes etc are magical creatures whose lives are worth more. But if you want to be consistent then surely ALL bad treatment/killing of animals is unacceptable?

[Guest]

Tomas has had a decent appearance record up to his injury

2016-17 38 games

2017-18 35 games

2018-19 38 games signed for us 1/7/19 for reported £8m after a loan spell. Reported £22K PW.

2019-20 23 games

2020-21 40 games

2021-22 35 games Initial injury was March 22

2022-23 32 minutes.  Subsequent injury, knee? Groin? Calf?

Out of contract 6/23, so can walk away then having played to date approx 100 games since signing at an estimated overall cost of circa £12M…..£120,000 per game to date.

Having been out since March he clearly has a very difficult / unusual set of injuries given his decent appearance record previously, I’ll repeat we may not see him in a red shirt again, the second of our warrior defenders lost to us.

Whatever your take on his off field life, just like Baker he has put his body on the line on numerous occasions.

I stand to be corrected on the above, but if anywhere near the true figures is it any wonder the club has cost SL so much money.

Should he play the remaining 20 or so league games that figure reduces to £100,000 per game, what a crazy business championship football is.

Disclaimer- I am far from having any knowledge of the accounting procedures involved in running a football club, so no doubt the people who do can put me straight.

 

[spudski]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's all very well, but there is more than a hint of hypocrisy that as a meat eater you accept that eating animals that have been electrocuted, shot with bolt guns, had their throats slit, or in the case of chickens gassed, is OK due to your dietary preference. 

This hypocrisy is hard for people to acknowledge as we're indoctrinated from a very young age that farm animals are "meat" and dolphins, lions, giraffes etc are magical creatures whose lives are worth more. But if you want to be consistent then surely ALL bad treatment/killing of animals is unacceptable?

It's an interesting debate.

I eat meat, but I do my best to ensure it's been ethically treated.

I also eat less than I used to.

Many animals hunt, eat meat and kill. Yet they are often kind when not hunting for food to other species.

We as humans eat meat...some choose not too. We, like animals, can be kind and treat animals with compassion.

Using an animal as entertainment, is imo, totally different.

Many cultures respect animals and treat them well. 

From my experience, people in the UK have very little understanding of food produce.

You've got the vegans and vegetarians...and then a massive amount of the population who couldn't tell you where fruit, veg or meat came from. The supermarket or fast food outlet is as far as they know.

I've found many other countries are far more respectful and educated about animal welfare.

Then you have the extremes like China and Korea who couldn't give a stuff about animals.

We are a strange nation...probably the most loving towards animals, yet one of the least educated when it comes to food.

 

[Rebounder]

4 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's all very well, but there is more than a hint of hypocrisy that as a meat eater you accept that eating animals that have been electrocuted, shot with bolt guns, had their throats slit, or in the case of chickens gassed, is OK due to your dietary preference. 

This hypocrisy is hard for people to acknowledge as we're indoctrinated from a very young age that farm animals are "meat" and dolphins, lions, giraffes etc are magical creatures whose lives are worth more. But if you want to be consistent then surely ALL bad treatment/killing of animals is unacceptable?

I know what you are saying. I'm veggie - cant quite manage vegan. I decided to take the jump to Veggie when I was doing some stuff around the badger cull and it didn't sit right to be eating meat anymore. It was a decision I'd thought about for a long time. I'm still hypocritical, but everyone is to an extent and we have to also do what's manageable within the world we try to survive in so I don't judge other people on their choice to eat meat. 

Its true there is a disparity between iconic animals and how we view them, and then animals that are less cute, or seen as pests. I watched people throwing jellyfish around on a beach, and when I challenged someone they did it more. A real disconnect between sea life and land animals. 

All of that being said, I do feel saying "yeah but we eat meat" to be a bit of a strawman when trying to challenge something like this. It's a process and I was quite warmed to see people being against this on here. Hopefully we can move away from seeing animals as entertainment, and then also food. 

[maxjak]

On 26/11/2022 at 18:21, frenchred said:

The blokes on holiday FFS, give him a break!

Just because your on holiday does not mean you suspend your moral stance?  In fact if you have a high profile, it gives you the opportunity to draw attention to issues?   I like Kalas, but i would suggest he has had plenty of breaks? 

[maxjak]

18 hours ago, spudski said:

It's an interesting debate.

I eat meat, but I do my best to ensure it's been ethically treated.

I also eat less than I used to.

Many animals hunt, eat meat and kill. Yet they are often kind when not hunting for food to other species.

We as humans eat meat...some choose not too. We, like animals, can be kind and treat animals with compassion.

Using an animal as entertainment, is imo, totally different.

Many cultures respect animals and treat them well. 

From my experience, people in the UK have very little understanding of food produce.

You've got the vegans and vegetarians...and then a massive amount of the population who couldn't tell you where fruit, veg or meat came from. The supermarket or fast food outlet is as far as they know.

I've found many other countries are far more respectful and educated about animal welfare.

Then you have the extremes like China and Korea who couldn't give a stuff about animals.

We are a strange nation...probably the most loving towards animals, yet one of the least educated when it comes to food.

 

You make some valid points.........but it always make me puke......when i read that a healthy animal has been killed in a "Humane" way?  I see that as a oxymoron 

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You make some valid points.........but it always make me puke......when i read that a healthy animal has been killed in a "Humane" way?  I see that as a oxymoron 

Yes, it's an emotive subject for sure,  and the debate can go round in circles, depending on your stance. 

We are all ' animals, mammals '...all part of that kingdom.

Kindness to other species is shown throughout one another.

I am constantly in awe at the kindness shown by other creatures to one another. Intelligence, compassion and feeling seemingly endless in our discovery and understanding.

Yet....when it comes to food. In the animal kingdom, if you eat meat, it goes out of the window.

Torn to shreds, hunted down and often eaten alive.

Very rarely do you see other animals, using others as entertainment though.

So I guess ' humanly' being killed for food, in a quick non stressful way, is better than being hunted and eaten alive? 

Who knows... definitely a hot debate.

Edited November 28, 2022 by spudski

[maxjak]

18 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes, it's an emotive subject for sure,  and the debate can go round in circles, depending on your stance. 

We are all ' animals, mammals '...all part of that kingdom.

Kindness to other species is shown throughout one another.

I am constantly in awe at the kindness shown by other creatures to one another. Intelligence, compassion and feeling seemingly endless in our discovery and understanding.

Yet....when it comes to food. In the animal kingdom, if you eat meat, it goes out of the window.

Torn to shreds, hunted down and often eaten alive.

Very rarely do you see other animals, using others as entertainment though.

So I guess ' humanly' being killed for food, in a quick non stressful way, is better than being hunted and eaten alive? 

Who knows... definitely a hot debate.

You again make valid points........but i would say that humans have choice, they do NOT have to kill and exploit animals.  In the wild, animals who are predators, kill as a means of survival, there is no moral dilemma, it is purely instinctive....so they either hunt and kill,  or they die?  I would also argue that being killed, by whatever means, is NEVER Non stressful?   You state that "we are all animals, mammals, all part of that kingdom"

I would counter that as humans  we have intellect, and are able to make Decisions and moral judgements, whereas animals do not have that luxury?  

Edited November 28, 2022 by maxjak

[Atticus]

On 26/11/2022 at 23:25, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

Then if we survive this season, next we are f***** anyway.

[Atticus]

12 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You again make valid points........but i would say that humans have choice, they do NOT have to kill and exploit animals.  In the wild, animals who are predators, kill as a means of survival, there is no moral dilemma, it is purely instinctive....so they either hunt and kill,  or they die?  I would also argue that being killed, by whatever means, is NEVER Non stressful?   You state that "we are all animals, mammals, all part of that kingdom"

I would counter that as humans  we have intellect, and are able to make Decisions and moral judgements, whereas animals do not have that luxury?  

There are plenty of animals that are omnivors.

It certainly isn't hypocritical to be a meat eater but not want animals to be treated inhumanely for the enjoyment of people.

 

If people have a guilt trip about it fine, but don't assume that others should.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Atticus

[Atticus]

22 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's all very well, but there is more than a hint of hypocrisy that as a meat eater you accept that eating animals that have been electrocuted, shot with bolt guns, had their throats slit, or in the case of chickens gassed, is OK due to your dietary preference. 

This hypocrisy is hard for people to acknowledge as we're indoctrinated from a very young age that farm animals are "meat" and dolphins, lions, giraffes etc are magical creatures whose lives are worth more. But if you want to be consistent then surely ALL bad treatment/killing of animals is unacceptable?

Try halal then, which more and more supermarkets and takeouts are serving  

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You again make valid points........but i would say that humans have choice, they do NOT have to kill and exploit animals.  In the wild, animals who are predators, kill as a means of survival, there is no moral dilemma, it is purely instinctive....so they either hunt and kill,  or they die?  I would also argue that being killed, by whatever means, is NEVER Non stressful?   You state that "we are all animals, mammals, all part of that kingdom"

I would counter that as humans  we have intellect, and are able to make Decisions and moral judgements, whereas animals do not have that luxury?  

Again...it's a subject that can go round in circles. 

I guess it's purely down to the person to judge.

Also on how their health is.

Some people really struggle with their diet and how it effects their body.

My sister is a vegetarian. She has been for over 40 years. I call her mother earth...always been aware of nature, tries to be organic. Keeps bees, has allotments...you get the picture.

Yet since turning vegetarian as a child, she's had nothing but problems with her stomach and digestion. 

I know other vegetarians with the same problems. Always ill, often anaemic.

I'm the same with processed food. I have severe reactions with many processed items.

So I eat naturally. I eat a balanced diet based on , grow it, pick it, fish it, kill it. 

Don't mess with it...food sources grown naturally as mother nature intended.

I find eating a balanced diet works best for me. If man has buggered around with it, I suffer.

I've tried vegetarianism. It made me Ill. So many pesticides on fruit and veg. Even organic made me suffer. My stomach couldn't take it. Constantly in pain.

Yet others can survive on eating crap.

We are all individuals. All our bodies work differently. You have to listen to it. And find what works for you as an individual.

As humans ...we can all be caring and empathic towards animals. Care for them and treat them well. 

As for killing an animal humanly...a shot to the head in the wild...no stress. They wouldn't know anything about it.

Studies have shown that animals can make moral judgements and help one another out. With the advent of social media, so many videos showing animals in the wild, different species helping one another out, with no benefit to the helper. So they are aware.

Even trees help one another out. Studies show that in a forest, if trees are lacking water or nutrients, the others who have plenty will use the root system to supply the ones suffering. 

More and more evidence is coming to light that the earth could be a living entity.

Who know what we don't know about plants etc.

All I know, is the more man mucks around with it, trying to create un natural foods, the more likely we are to suffer. Bill Gates can do one for a start...with his ' plastic 3d meat products'. The bloke is evil personified. I digress :laugh:.

As for Kalas...his response came across as ' ignorance is bliss'. He'd rather not know and just believe what he's been told by the park who are making a fortune from captive dolphins and using them as entertainment. Now that...you really can control.

 

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

It certainly isn't hypocritical to be a meat eater but not want animals to be treated inhumanely for the enjoyment of people.

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 26/11/2022 at 23:25, And Its Smith said:

My brain

Massengo - obvious, hasn’t signed contract 

Scott - obvious, has basically said it

Martin - old and poor we won’t offer him a contract 

Kalas/Wells - both on huge money and will go and earn good money elsewhere 

Bentley - we have two other keepers 

We need to get the wage bill down so I think it’s pretty obvious they all go. Unsure of likes of Dasilva as hard to say 

Should've listened to Neil Kinnock in 1987, he warned us not to be old, or shit. And poor. Or something.

[maxjak]

4 hours ago, Atticus said:

Try halal then, which more and more supermarkets and takeouts are serving  

You do realise that halal meat involves slitting the creature's throat, which involves slicing through the windpipe and jugular vein? So well done supermarkets?   I would prefer that they show videos of slaughterhouses and abbatoir's above those wonderful fridges,that are full of beautifully packaged slices and portions wrapped in plastic?   Although that would be detrimental to the delicate sensibilities of shoppers, and the profits of the multinationals..........and of course the public must be protected to the realities of how meat is produced?  .....Although there are plenty who don't give a S**T, as long as it tastes good?

[spudski]

40 minutes ago, maxjak said:

You do realise that halal meat involves slitting the creature's throat, which involves slicing through the windpipe and jugular vein? So well done supermarkets?   I would prefer that they show videos of slaughterhouses and abbatoir's above those wonderful fridges,that are full of beautifully packaged slices and portions wrapped in plastic?   Although that would be detrimental to the delicate sensibilities of shoppers, and the profits of the multinationals..........and of course the public must be protected to the realities of how meat is produced?  .....Although there are plenty who don't give a S**T, as long as it tastes good?

Imo, all schools in the UK should visit slaughter houses and see how animals are slaughtered.

It happens in many other cultures...near to home...where it's common for people to know how to slaughter an animal.

From experience...far more thought and respect is given. 

Less meat eaten...and what's eaten is used fully.

I had a Czech GF in the past. All hair, nails, make up etc.

Went to visit her family just outside of Prague and watched her and her father slaughter a pig on their small holding. It was taught as a child. They also as a family foraged for mushrooms in the forests in the weekend. Everything was used and respected.

The father butchered and used everything. It lasted for many months.

I would rather we lived like that...than just visiting a supermarket and not ever thinking about where our produce came from.

I've felt inept compared to other cultures, as to where we totally rely on others to provide for us.

Knowing how to grow fruit and veg, keep animals, know about the seasons, soil, read the stars, sail a boat,crude a horse...these are basics that our ancestors knew like ABC.

Yet we get told about Pythagoras and such like, and never use it 

Turn off supply, electric and internet and we are all fecked.

Stark reality when you think about it.

[plumb]

What I find most odd is those who defend the rights of animals and how they live / die (which is not a bad thing for them to do I will add), but simultaneously turn a complete blind eye at the way so many humans suffer in their final years.

Particularly in the last couple of years, where people were happy to just go along with the elderly being locked in a room for months on end, lonely and  confused, not even given so much as a vitamin tablet by our government even though they were the most vulnerable. Being told by the medical profession we wont come and help you if you become ill, you will be automatically enroled into having a do not resuscitate order, but if you do want to live and you are really ill we may at that point offer a little help.  So many dieing alone in hospital with no visitors, thinking their family didn't care.  The government sacked 40,000 people that cared for the elderly, leaving so many without the care the deserve/require.  It was extraordinary times, but the way people were treated and the fact so many are either unaware or don't care is baffling.

Yes, we all have a duty to treat animals better, but we also have a duty to our fellow humans.

Edited November 28, 2022 by bbew

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, bbew said:

What I find most odd is those who defend the rights of animals and how they live / die (which is not a bad thing for them to do I will add), but simultaneously turn a complete blind eye at the way so many humans suffer in their final years.

Particularly in the last couple of years, where people were happy to just go along with the elderly being locked in a room for months on end, lonely and  confused, not even given so much as a vitamin tablet by our government even though they were the most vulnerable. Being told by the medical profession we wont come and help you if you become ill, you will be automatically enroled into having a do not resuscitate order, but if you do want to live and you are really ill we may at that point offer a little help.  So many dieing alone in hospital with no visitors, thinking their family didn't care.  The government sacked 40,000 people that cared for the elderly, leaving so many without the care the deserve/require.  It was extraordinary times, but the way people were treated and the fact so many are either unaware or don't care is baffling.

Yes, we all have a duty to treat animals better, but we also have a duty to our fellow humans.

I agree with your sentiment...but why do you say people concerned with animal welfare have turned a blind eye to human suffering?

You can be concerned for both surely?

I lost both my parents during COVID lock downs.

Restrictions on visits to hospitals and care home.

Even restriction on numbers at their funerals.

I've become numb to the madness of it all. The frustration, sadness, the fear felt by all concerned.

Both my parents could possibly have still been here, if it weren't for lock downs and cancellation of necessary quick operations on cancer and tumors. 

I could go on...but you've only got to listen to people and how everyone has a different view on the subject. 

People are conditioned. They believe whatever they are told. Some think...others follow like lemmings. 

What is a fact these days? What's true? What isn't? It's hard to define fact from fiction. Every piece of fact and news has an agenda behind it. For every pro there's a con. 

We all, even if we disagreed with it...followed the rules. For the greater good. 

What a load of bollox that turned out to be. 

The leaders doing everything thing they wanted...regardless of the rules they set. 

Seeing so much come to light, the hypocrisy and game that was played... hopefully people in the future will stand up as one and say **** you if it happens again.

Others around the world are now doing that now.

We need to stand up as individuals and do what's right for humans and animals. Rather than let leaders dictate our thinking.

We complain about them, let them get away with it, then pretty much forgive and forget... Yesterday's news being chip paper...and they continue in the same vein, and we let it happen.

We are conditioned to obey and not argue. All in the name of science, the greater good and for our own safety and welfare.

 

[Taz]

So long and short of it is, Kalas is still struggling with injury, but is taking some time away on holiday in the close season break whilst the World Cup is on.

Didn't the club put a post up yesterday (or maybe the day before) saying back to work? Surely this means very few players were around? 

Meanwhile on otib, people are getting uptight about dolphins and Kalas being away and not being at the club......

Edited November 30, 2022 by Taz
Formatting is all over the place!!

[GrahamC]

47 minutes ago, Taz said:

So long and short of it is, Kalas is still struggling with injury, but is taking some time away on holiday in the close season break whilst the World Cup is on.

Didn't the club put a post up yesterday (or maybe the day before) saying back to work? Surely this means very few players were around? 

Meanwhile on otib, people are getting uptight about dolphins and Kalas being away and not being at the club......

It appeared to me that the majority of players were back yesterday, Wells, Dasilva, Scott & Vyner were shown in the video & it has been reported today that Naismith trained too. Weimann might have been given a few more days off as he featured for Austria & picked up a knock. Semenyo we all know about.

It appears from what Kalas posted & various rumours that his injury isn’t sorted, so that is the logical explanation as to why he’s not back with them.

[Negan]

On 26/11/2022 at 19:00, spudski said:

Sadly...There's a lot of people who are uneducated on such things. 

All they are interested in, is money, holidays, material possessions, and sharing it on social media. 

There are a lot of footballers that fall into this category.

I'm not saying it's the case with Kalas...but there are many that simply aren't interested in such information.

Blimey...you've only got to look at China and it's populations ignorance to shark fins.

Some are either ignorant or want to turn a blind eye...as showing others on social media you are eating it or exploiting it, is more important.

Get your point but I hate people who lecture others about this stuff “you shouldn’t go to zoos or aqua parks, they capture them and train them for our entertainment” said person then goes on to eat a chicken burger with bacon and cheese on….. 

I get the argument that just because you eat meat/dairy products doesn’t mean you can’t speak up against these kinds of things but it’s massively hypocritical to say we can’t use them for entertainment but we can kill and eat them by the billions each year one is far worse than the other. 

[italian dave]

Can I nominate this as one of the weirdest threads ever on OTIB. 

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Negan said:

Get your point but I hate people who lecture others about this stuff “you shouldn’t go to zoos or aqua parks, they capture them and train them for our entertainment” said person then goes on to eat a chicken burger with bacon and cheese on….. 

I get the argument that just because you eat meat/dairy products doesn’t mean you can’t speak up against these kinds of things but it’s massively hypocritical to say we can’t use them for entertainment but we can kill and eat them by the billions each year one is far worse than the other. 

I guess it's down to the individual. However...knowledge and education helps with making decisions. 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Can I nominate this as one of the weirdest threads ever on OTIB. 

I second your nomination.

[Shuffle]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I second your nomination.

I only mentioned Kalas not fit!!!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

I only mentioned Kalas not fit!!!

All I said was that halibut was good enough for Jehovah

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

On 28/11/2022 at 17:21, maxjak said:

You do realise that halal meat involves slitting the creature's throat, which involves slicing through the windpipe and jugular vein? So well done supermarkets?  and of course the public must be protected to the realities of how meat is produced?  .....Although there are plenty who don't give a S**T, as long as it tastes good?

I digress slightly, perhaps, but here is a little anecdote.

Many years ago, I had to inspect an establishment in Saudi Arabia; a chicken farm, to be precise.

Now, this was no battery hen farm, but a truly free range chicken farm, where the chickens were free to roam all day long in fields of quite lush grass - leopards and hyenas aside, and perhaps hawks during their breeding season, there are few natural predators in Saudi Arabia - only returning at night to roost should they wish, no doubt tempted by the sumptuous feast of grain and other poultry delicacies laid on for them, 'roosting' in beds of hay before venturing forth again the following morning. 

A life of chicken luxury, one might say, especially as the chickens' diet was later supplemented by copious amounts of corn.

Unfortunately (for the chickens), their luxurious, relatively short lives would soon be brought to a premature close, as I would witness during the penultimate stage of my inspection - the in-house abattoir.

Saudi Arabia is, of course, a strict, Muslim Kingdom, and it goes without saying that any meat produced and eaten within the Kingdom is Halal, and I was shown how this is undertaken. 

Firstly, the chickens were rounded up from their fields, placed in plastic crates before being brought to the abattoir, where they were rammed forcibly by their legs on to a metal frame - a sort of W shape - and transported by conveyor belt, head down to allow the blood to go to their heads, passing through an electrified water shower to stun them, before having their throats cut with a sort of scalpel by men muttering 'Bismillah' as they slaughter each chicken.

People will have to form their own judgement as to whether or not such a means of slaughter is humane - for what it is worth, having witnessed it at first hand, I don't think it is - but, I must say that the chicken I was offered for lunch was probably the most succulent and tasty I have ever experienced.

As an interesting aside, my Saudi host, when describing to me over lunch the strict Muslim rules about Halal meat, explained how it was imperative the animal was alive before it was killed!

He, of course, meant conscious, but stressed it was very important nevertheless to ensure the electrical charge in the water shower was kept low, because were the chicken to be electrocuted and killed before it was slaughtered, it would not be considered Halal and, thus, could not be eaten! 

Conversely, if the chicken were electrocuted, but only stunned (Norwegian Blue Chicken?) before being slaughtered, it would be safe to eat.

Needless to say, I refrained from asking how, in the short trip on the conveyor belt to the scalpel, one might be able to establish whether or not the chicken was dead, or simply stunned and pining for its lush green fields and corn based diet.   

 

 

 

   

Edited November 30, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I digress slightly, perhaps, but here is a little anecdote.

Many years ago, I had to inspect an establishment in Saudi Arabia; a chicken farm, to be precise.

Now, this was no battery hen farm, but a truly free range chicken farm, where the chickens were free to roam all day long in fields of quite lush grass - leopards and hyenas aside, and perhaps hawks during their breeding season, there are few natural predators in Saudi Arabia - only returning at night to roost should they wish, no doubt tempted by the sumptuous feast of grain and other poultry delicacies laid on for them, 'roosting' in beds of hay before venturing forth again the following morning. 

A life of chicken luxury, one might say, especially as the chickens' diet was later supplemented by copious amounts of corn.

Unfortunately (for the chickens), their luxurious, relatively short lives would soon be brought to a premature close, as I would witness during the penultimate stage of my inspection - the in-house abattoir.

Saudi Arabia is, of course, a strict, Muslim Kingdom, and it goes without saying that any meat produced and eaten within the Kingdom is Halal, and I was shown how this is undertaken. 

Firstly, the chickens were rounded up from their fields, placed in plastic crates before being brought to the abattoir, where they were rammed forcibly by their legs on to a metal frame - a sort of W shape - and transported by conveyor belt, head down to allow the blood to go to their heads, passing through an electrified water shower to stun them, before having their throats cut with a sort of scalpel by men muttering 'Bismillah' as they slaughter each chicken.

People will have to form their own judgement as to whether or not such a means of slaughter is humane - for what it is worth, having witnessed it at first hand, I don't think it is - but, I must say that the chicken I was offered for lunch was probably the most succulent and tasty I have ever experienced.

As an interesting aside, my Saudi host, when describing to me over lunch the strict Muslim rules about Halal meat, explained how it was imperative the animal was alive before it was killed!

He, of course, meant conscious, but stressed it was very important nevertheless to ensure the electrical charge in the water shower was kept low, because were the chicken to be electrocuted and killed before it was slaughtered, it would not be considered Halal and, thus, could not be eaten! 

Conversely, if the chicken were electrocuted, but only stunned (Norwegian Blue Chicken?) before being slaughtered, it would be safe to eat.

Needless to say, I refrained from asking how, in the short trip on the conveyor belt to the scalpel, one might be able to establish whether or not the chicken was dead, or simply stunned and pining for its lush green fields and corn based diet.   

 

 

 

   

Interesting story...........personally i believe the whole concept of Halal slaughter is an absurdity, but that is my own view.  It also makes me puke, when i hear the term.............."humanely killed"....I am certain the recipient of   the death blow is so very grateful?  I visited  A French abattoir in my early twenties, and have not eaten meat since that day.   It is all about personal choice and your own moral stance, but i do wish that more meat eaters would get to see just how meat is produced.......as most are content to turn a blind eye, and pick up their perfectly presented, plastic wrapped slice of dead creature in their local supermarket ?    

[spudski]

I'm gonna continue making this one of the weirdest threads ever :laugh: 

https://greenlivingtribe.com/vegans-upset-by-new-research-that-plants-are-conscious-and-scream-when-dying/

 

 

[Norn Iron]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

Interesting story...........personally i believe the whole concept of Halal slaughter is an absurdity, but that is my own view.  It also makes me puke, when i hear the term.............."humanely killed"....I am certain the recipient of   the death blow is so very grateful?  I visited  A French abattoir in my early twenties, and have not eaten meat since that day.   It is all about personal choice and your own moral stance, but i do wish that more meat eaters would get to see just how meat is produced.......as most are content to turn a blind eye, and pick up their perfectly presented, plastic wrapped slice of dead creature in their local supermarket ?    

Which made me think....

Instead of humanely killed, every chicken could be subjected to a very loud playing of Don't You Want Me, Fascination, Love Action, Mirror Man and naturally Lebanon. They'd be Human League killed.

[maxjak]

10 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Which made me think....

Instead of humanely killed, every chicken could be subjected to a very loud playing of Don't You Want Me, Fascination, Love Action, Mirror Man and naturally Lebanon. They'd be Human League killed.

If i were you.......I'd go and get me coat?..