Time Since Last Bristol City Penalty

[Clutton Caveman]

On 10/01/2023 at 16:00, And Its Smith said:

I think it’s because referees have thought our penalty claims aren’t penalties.  

I think we don't get penalties for 4 reasons

a) you can wrestle to your hearts content in the box and the most a ref will do is blow his whistle before the kick is taken and warn the 2 players involved

b) most pens come from a player beating his man and driving into the box. We have few players who can actually run at and beat a man so we don't often cause that sort of panic.

c) a lot of pens come from handballs caused by deflected shots. We have few players with the confidence to back themselves and have a crack at goal prefering to pass the buck or seek a tap in.

d) at some grounds the ref gets intimidated or influenced by the home fans. That has not happened at the gate for some time.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

That's the one. Weimann had a goal very questionably at best disallowed for offside at 0-0 too.

We received an official apology...

Again!

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I think we don't get penalties for 4 reasons

a) you can wrestle to your hearts content in the box and the most a ref will do is blow his whistle before the kick is taken and warn the 2 players involved

b) most pens come from a player beating his man and driving into the box. We have few players who can actually run at and beat a man so we don't often cause that sort of panic.

c) a lot of pens come from handballs caused by deflected shots. We have few players with the confidence to back themselves and have a crack at goal prefering to pass the buck or seek a tap in.

d) at some grounds the ref gets intimidated or influenced by the home fans. That has not happened at the gate for some time.

I agree with some of this, point d) especially. We do seem less visceral than we once were as a crowd, although maybe that also reflects general trends too.

The analysis of penalties awarded by reasons is interesting but chopped down or boot to the head (Wells v Watford the latter), penalties are penalties and when you look at the Ince one v us last season or Man City's 2nd on Sunday if that's the benchmark or Hull's vs us...well.

[firstdivision]

I think our penalty drought is karma for the absurd one we were given in the last minute of the QPR game in February 2019.

BTW has anyone worked out how many we've had given against us in the same period we are complaining about? 

Most clubs' supporters know who their team's penalty taker is. I have no idea (if Chris Martin isn't on the field). Wells? Naismith? Antoine? Billy Wedlock?

Edited January 12, 2023 by firstdivision

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

I think our penalty drought is karma for the absurd one we were given in the last minute of the QPR game in February 2019.

BTW has anyone worked out how many we've had given against us in the same period we are complaining about? 

Most clubs' supporters know who their team's penalty taker is. I have no idea (if Chris Martin isn't on the field). Wells? Naismith? Antoine? Billy Wedlock?

Well Pisano had a goal incorrectly disallowed in that same game so?

I was keeping track for s while but it depends on the timeframe is it...

A) Since our last League penalty.

B) Penalty record in all competitions since then.

C) The two years, 2 months or so in which we have received:

1) 1 in the League or

2) 1 in the League and 1 in the FA Cup.

There are many ways to measure it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Okay let's see.

1) Penalties against- in the period we received 0? 9. All in the League and inclusive of Coventry away in the same game.

2) Penalties against in all competitions since our last- also 9.

3) Since November 2020 ie from start of that month- 16 in the League.

4) Inclusive of Cup games 2? 2 for and 17 against.

0-9, 0-9, 1-16 and 2-17.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

I think our penalty drought is karma for the absurd one we were given in the last minute of the QPR game in February 2019.

BTW has anyone worked out how many we've had given against us in the same period we are complaining about? 

Most clubs' supporters know who their team's penalty taker is. I have no idea (if Chris Martin isn't on the field). Wells? Naismith? Antoine? Billy Wedlock?

Think the current penalty taker is still Tomlin!

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Think the current penalty taker is still Tomlin!

Wonder if they've found that one he took v Burton yet.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay let's see.

1) Penalties against- in the period we received 0? 9. All in the League and inclusive of Coventry away in the same game.

2) Penalties against in all competitions since our last- also 9.

3) Since November 2020 ie from start of that month- 16 in the League.

4) Inclusive of Cup games 2? 2 for and 17 against.

0-9, 0-9, 1-16 and 2-17.

Wow! Three for City and THIRTY THREE AGAINST! ( Have I got the numbers correct?)

I know some will cast scorn on me but I seriously wonder how many clubs are back-handing referees and or linesmen.

I know that most home fans will argue that any penalty against their club in home games is extremely dubious but we've had so many against us at home. Many of these I thought were dubious to say the least. It has seemed clear that too many away players who fall in our box gains a penalty. Yet the same at the other end is not given.

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

Wow! Three for City and THIRTY THREE AGAINST! ( Have I got the numbers correct?)

I know some will cast scorn on me but I seriously wonder how many clubs are back-handing referees and or linesmen.

I know that most home fans will argue that any penalty against their club in home games is extremely dubious but we've had so many against us at home. Many of these I thought were dubious to say the least. It has seemed clear that too many away players who fall in our box gains a penalty. Yet the same at the other end is not given.

 

 

I'll rephrase it a bit, possible there was double counting.

It depends how we measure it.

League only- Coventry away to present

0-9 from Coventry away in November 2021. 0 for, 9 against including 1 to Coventry 2nd half. Same for the Cup games in that period.

From 1st November 2020 to present- League only

We have been awarded 1 in the League and 16 against.

Same time period including the Cup games

Been awarded the 1 in the League, 1 in the Cup but 16 against in the League and 1 against in the Cup.

Net total 2 for, 17 against. In all competitions, 1 for but 16 against in the League.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[cidered abroad]

51 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll rephrase it a bit, possible there was double counting.

It depends how we measure it.

League only- Coventry away to present

0-9 from Coventry away in November 2021. 0 for, 9 against including 1 to Coventry 2nd half. Same for the Cup games in that period.

From 1st November 2020 to present- League only

We habe been aawarded 1 in the League and 16 against.

Same time period including the Cup games

Been awarded the 1 in the League, 1 in the Cup but 16 against in the League and 1 against in the Cup.

Net total 2 for, 17 against.

Thanks Mr P. Not as bad as my mistaken numbers but two for and seventeen against is still a significant difference over a 2 to 3 year/season period.

[Dan Robin]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Okay let's see.

1) Penalties against- in the period we received 0? 9. All in the League and inclusive of Coventry away in the same game.

2) Penalties against in all competitions since our last- also 9.

3) Since November 2020 ie from start of that month- 16 in the League.

4) Inclusive of Cup games 2? 2 for and 17 against.

0-9, 0-9, 1-16 and 2-17.

Stats that speak loudly. Much more than unbalanced, much more than a simple anomaly...

Edited January 12, 2023 by Dan Robin

[FForbes]

The subject was raised and discussed for several minutes on Adrian Chiles program on Radio 5 this morning. A City fan was on as well as someone quoting some statistics.

[redysteadygo]

I have this funny feeling we will get a pen tomorrow, maybe due to the slippery conditions. If so do we give the ref a round of "you don't know what you're doing".

[italian dave]

10 minutes ago, redysteadygo said:

I have this funny feeling we will get a pen tomorrow, maybe due to the slippery conditions. If so do we give the ref a round of "you don't know what you're doing".

More like ‘we don’t know what we’re doing’!

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, FForbes said:

The subject was raised and discussed for several minutes on Adrian Chiles program on Radio 5 this morning. A City fan was on as well as someone quoting some statistics.

Finally Chiles is on the case. Finally a mind truly capable of cracking this mystery wide open. Thank god.

[downendcity]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Finally Chiles is on the case. Finally a mind truly capable of cracking this mystery wide open. Thank god.

 

Correct - it's not rocket science is it? 

[PHILINFRANCE]

From GasChat, which I thought was quite amusing.

 

 

[The Humble Realist]

I agree its remarkable but surely no one thinks it's a conspiracy. We are a complete nobody,  even more so in the period in question, mid table obscurity with light flirting of the play offs and relegation.

It's a frustrating situation but at worse perhaps we arent getting the benefit of any doubt because people like scott and wells dont stay on their feet. Scott in particular had a period where he was always looking for a foul. 

[The Journalist]

On 12/01/2023 at 15:56, italian dave said:

We haven’t had a penalty in front of a crowd at Ashton Gate since 2019! 

That is extraordinary. Who was that against?!

[Mr Popodopolous]

I won't go into conspiracy theories but plenty of players fall down easy and penalties follow.

Tom Ince anyone? Am sure others can name a few players who do this- perhaps some of ours may go down easily, Scott can be good at winning free kicks but some of these shouts were absolutely blatant.

2 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

That is extraordinary. Who was that against?!

Luton late December 2019.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, FForbes said:

The subject was raised and discussed for several minutes on Adrian Chiles program on Radio 5 this morning. A City fan was on as well as someone quoting some statistics.

Here's the guy from WhoScored talking about it, City fan suppose that'll be on catchup too on the programme.

He did make an interesting point though which was that our attacks through the middle are the lowest in the division.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

14 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

Finally Chiles is on the case. Finally a mind truly capable of cracking this mystery wide open. Thank god.

Will it be Henry, the mild-mannered janitor that`s to blame?

[luke_bristol]

Two more penalties denied today?

[italian dave]

36 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Two more penalties denied today?

Not had the benefit of any replays, but the Wells one looked a definite possible one: not stonewall, but a ‘often seen them given’ one. If there was a second then I missed it!

[luke_bristol]

Didn’t go myself, just some mutterings on Twitter about a definite one on Wells plus another one  “probable” without details. I really think we could see out the season without one and barely a whisper will be heard from the football media, PGMOL, or FA.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Didn’t go myself, just some mutterings on Twitter about a definite one on Wells plus another one  “probable” without details. I really think we could see out the season without one and barely a whisper will be heard from the football media, PGMOL, or FA.

The record was 70 odd games with Port Vale iirc.

We are on 63 in all competitions I think. (All competitive games anyway).

Edited January 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ian M]

Port Vale beat Galway United's 72 match run but got a penalty in their 74th match.

I swear I recall hearing a Brazilian team got into the 90s

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'll correct myself, think we maybe on 62 not 63.

[Ian M]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'll correct myself, think we maybe on 62 not 63.

As long as we don't go down we may as well take the record. Always handy to have a hard luck story in your back pocket.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Ian M said:

As long as we don't go down we may as well take the record. Always handy to have a hard luck story in your back pocket.

Was thinking just that, we're getting closer. In the top few, let's go for it!

[Ian M]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Was thinking just that, we're getting closer. In the top few, let's go for it!

If we get to 72 games or something and some ref gives us a late pen at 2-0 up, I'm giving him pelters 

[downendcity]

What odds are bookies offering on us beating P Vale's record and how many championship  referees have already  had a punt ?! 

[1960maaan]

So Nige had a chat with the Ref, he cleared up the reason for no Pen yesterday 

 I’m more disappointed with the penalty shout that’s not given when Nahki Wells is tackled from behind in the fashion that he is. The explanation is 'minimal football contact', whatever that means.
"'Minimal football contact', what does that mean? No idea. Got no idea what they were talking about and so another week goes past where we have a shout that if it went against us, I wouldn’t argue against it "If that was against us, I wouldn’t be arguing with that. But there you go, that’s what we have to put up with every week I’m afraid.”

I don't think any fans get angry any more, shrug and gets on with it.

[Never to the dark side]

from the bible Genesis 19:26 in whch it states "don't look back" or you will turn into a pillare of salt.

Do you always notice how the refs always turn their backs on a penalty shout for Bristol City?

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

Do you always notice how the refs always turn their backs on a penalty shout for Bristol City?

When City do eventually get a penalty awarded - it’ll probably be two in one game.

[glynriley]

20 minutes ago, Never to the dark side said:

from the bible Genesis 19:26 in whch it states "don't look back" or you will turn into a pillare of salt.

Do you always notice how the refs always turn their backs on a penalty shout for Bristol City?

Such is our Lot (‘s wife)

[Oh Louie louie]

Like buses and if two of them turned up we would probably miss them, if they do turn into a pillar of salt, its because we been peppering them with appeals,.

[Bobbie]

Who would be our penalty taker? It’s been that long, I have no clue? Wells? 

[glynriley]

Just now, Bobbie said:

Who would be our penalty taker? It’s been that long, I have no clue? Wells? 

Don’t know. They’ve probably not been born yet. 

[luke_bristol]

Never heard the phrase “minimum football contact” before, perhaps the ref and his assistants put their heads together after the game and came up with it?

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

So Nige had a chat with the Ref, he cleared up the reason for no Pen yesterday 

 I’m more disappointed with the penalty shout that’s not given when Nahki Wells is tackled from behind in the fashion that he is. The explanation is 'minimal football contact', whatever that means.
"'Minimal football contact', what does that mean? No idea. Got no idea what they were talking about and so another week goes past where we have a shout that if it went against us, I wouldn’t argue against it "If that was against us, I wouldn’t be arguing with that. But there you go, that’s what we have to put up with every week I’m afraid.”

I don't think any fans get angry any more, shrug and gets on with it.

I thought Tim Robinson was poor yesterday, let Brereton Diaz in particular get away with a lot of pushing & yet again denied us a clear penalty.

Got the offside right & it was as clear a second yellow as it could be, but another poor referee in BS3.

[Port Said Red]

I thought, in normal circumstances, playing for any other team, that if Semenyo had gone down when he was pushed from behind it would have been a penalty. But he stayed on his feet and hit the side netting when off balance. 

I wonder if the players have decided they can't expect penalties so are staying on their feet when they should go down?

 

[kit]

It wouldn't have though as the ref was consistent in not giving any fouls for pushes anywhere to the point that players were taking the piss as three game went on. 

But it was a pretty clear foul, for the pen shout, he had to go through both of Well's legs to get to the ball which is a foul. 

It is getting ridiculous. 

[Lack of Action Man]

The challenge on Wells yesterday: outside the box this would 99% of times be awarded as a free kick. So it should have been a penalty.

For me, the referee was inconsistent in his interpretation and application of the laws of the game around contact. As others have alluded to, he allowed Brereton Diaz a lot more wriggle room than others on the pitch with regards to pushing and grappling.

[tin]

Having seen it back again this morning, Wharton went through the back of Wells to get the ball. It’s more of penalty than I thought it was from the Lansdown Stand yesterday. 

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

When City do eventually get a penalty awarded - it’ll probably be two in one game.

How can a penalty be two?

[beaverface]

"Minimum football contact".

Surely a foul can still be committed by touching the ball first/same time as going through a player?

[Red Army 75]

Just watching the football league highlights from yesterday. Shrewsbury player converted his 6th penalty of the season. 
 

What have we had 8 in 5 years.  

[Kodjias Wrist]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Just watching the football league highlights from yesterday. Shrewsbury player converted his 6th penalty of the season. 
 

What have we had 8 in 5 years.  

8 in 5 years? Geeze didn't know it was that bad.

[Red Army 75]

Just now, Kodjias Wrist said:

8 in 5 years? Geeze didn't know it was that bad.

Could be wrong KW. But thought I read it somewhere 

[Antman]

26 minutes ago, tin said:

Having seen it back again this morning, Wharton went through the back of Wells to get the ball. It’s more of penalty than I thought it was from the Lansdown Stand yesterday. 

where are you seeing it? the Sky Sports highlights are so short as to be meaningless.

I also wanted to see Bells offside.

ta.

[Negan]

Its funny that the 2nd yellow for Blackburns defender was a softer challenge, and probably less contact than the Wells penalty incident. Just seems when we get in the box fouls don't count. Shouldn't matter where it is on the pitch. 

Anyway, you just know when we do get a penalty it will probably be the softest challenge going, or a handball that wasn't a handball and whoever takes it will sky it over the bar. There is no way we are scoring this penalty, its destined to go viral on twitter after all the media attention we've brought to it. 

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Antman said:

where are you seeing it? the Sky Sports highlights are so short as to be meaningless.

I also wanted to see Bells offside.

ta.

It's a Pen and he's offside, though might be tight.

 

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

When we do finally get one would you want to be the player who takes it?

[luke_bristol]

Search for “minimal football contact” on DuckDuckGo and the first search results are various media outlets quoting Nige’s interview. 
 

The ref is talking bollocks, he’s just made it up and lied to NP.

[Port Said Red]

On 24/12/2022 at 20:17, JackiDziekanowski said:

Just knocked this up quickly for those, who like me can't believe the stat.... Surely this will guarantee a Penalty on Boxing Day!

https://bristolcitypenalty.co.uk/

I thought it was worth bringing this forward in the thread to save everyone scrolling back through.

[downendcity]

33 minutes ago, Negan said:

Its funny that the 2nd yellow for Blackburns defender was a softer challenge, and probably less contact than the Wells penalty incident. Just seems when we get in the box fouls don't count. Shouldn't matter where it is on the pitch. 

Anyway, you just know when we do get a penalty it will probably be the softest challenge going, or a handball that wasn't a handball and whoever takes it will sky it over the bar. There is no way we are scoring this penalty, its destined to go viral on twitter after all the media attention we've brought to it. 

Also you just know that had the challenge on Wells (that led to the sending off) happened inside the penalty area, then the referee would not have blown for a foul, let alone yellow carded the defender!

[Always Believesham]

This feels like the best place to post. I think we’ve surpassed our previous ridiculous run with yesterday’s game… outside of sitting in the stadium (in bewilderment) I find this unfortunate run fascinating - and it’s not the first time we’ve been here.

In 2003-04 we went a whole season without a penalty in the league, (we were awarded one on the League Cup R1 August 13th at H to Swansea). The last one in the league for a long time was home to Cardiff match 44 in April 2003.

The real kick in the teeth was that we lost the 2003/04 play-off final, to a penalty.

2004-05, Match number 10, we’re awarded a penalty at home to Huddersfield. I think we had simultaneously gone 62 games in the league and 62 games in all competitions without a penalty.

I remember once we’d gone through 55 or 56 games it was a point of note that we had gone 5,000 minutes without a penalty. It wasn’t headline worthy but incredibly frustrating as a fan. See you all again in 20 years?

[Lew-T]

I can’t seem to find highlights of the Wells shout? 
 

It’s one of those fouls that if a defender runs back into his own corner and the attacker lays a finger, the defender drops to the floor and the ref blows every single time.

I can’t ducking stand those

[Alessandro]

Watching highlights:

1) It's pen for me, goes through back of Nahki and made no contact with the ball with his left foot:

2) Not scientific but if Bell is offside, it's very close but probably off, perhaps even just his upper body:

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by Alessandro

[sh1t_ref_again]

Think refs are constantly trying to avoid making the big decisions, as awarding penalties etc tend to be scrutinised and shown on TV more than ones not given.

The foul on NW for the pen he had been giving much less all day to Blackburn, where the slightest little graze of a shirt from behind meant they could chuck themselves to the floor in amatuer dramatics style, but thats easy when its in the middle of the pitch and quickly forgotten

Not a pen shout but take Wells yesterday, given a foul against him in the 1st half when the defender made a mess of it and he would have been away on goal, easier just to blow up and give a free kick to the defending team.

[Big C]

3 hours ago, Bobbie said:

Who would be our penalty taker? It’s been that long, I have no clue? Wells? 

My guess would be Naismith

[tin]

2 hours ago, Antman said:

where are you seeing it? the Sky Sports highlights are so short as to be meaningless.

I also wanted to see Bells offside.

ta.

Saw both incidents plus a short analysis on the Football League highlights on ITV4 this morning. Should be on ITV player if you want to catch up. Sam Parkin thought it was a nailed-on pen. 

Edited January 22, 2023 by tin

[Antman]

watching the reply of the flicked header (wells) it's interesting to see the BB player run into Scott? in the aftermath, yet the Ref blows for a foul. The BB player then goes to ground 10 feet further forward. the Ref indicating it was a head injury, but didn't bring the trainers on.

a small detail in the game, but typified the poor refereeing in the game.

as others have said, he was massively tolerant of the BB players grabbing and pushing, and going to ground.

we are all a bit hyper sensitive to Pen decisions ATM, but as has been said, if he did that on the field elsewhere it would have been a freekick - he played right through the man.

The offside against Bell is so tight - the 4th defender along was probably hidden to the lino's view.

1 minute ago, tin said:

Saw both incidents plus a short analysis on the Football League highlights on ITV4 this morning. Should be on ITV player if you want to catch up. Sam Parkin thought it was a nailed-on pen. 

the BCFC youtube highlights are now also up.

 

[Southport Red]

56 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Watching highlights:

1) It's pen for me, goes through back of Nahki and made no contact with the ball with his left foot:

2) Not scientific but if Bell is offside, it's very close but probably off, perhaps even just his upper body:

 

Up until now, I had been sure that Bell was (just) offside. But from this photo it looks like the defender at the top of the picture, is playing him on. 

[Spike]

I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

32 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. 

Not sure how you can say clearly, I have studied it and as the photo is not along the line you just cannot tell

[Alessandro]

31 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't get the discussion about Bell being offside, his head and chest are clearly ahead of the defenders, even on the far side. The rule of offside counts for any part of the body that can be used to score a goal therefore it is offside and a good call. The penalty on the other hand is a tackle from behind, taking out the player and dangerous too. 

I suspect you're right but i'm not sure it's that clear. His head is looking back, his body is leaning and his run was angled - so although i'm sure it's offside, I think it would be closer on VAR than what we thought in real time!

[Midred]

1 hour ago, Big C said:

My guess would be Naismith

He would hit the goalkeeper!