STEVE COTTERILL?

[Guest]

The guy who got us here and didnt get a decent crack of the whip imo.

Even SL/Dawes said of him "the man to take us forward" and "Prem manager in the making" too late now or could he bring back the fire and unite support?

[A Horse With No Name]

If only.

[Northern Red]

No.

[RedLionLad]

37 minutes ago, gl2 said:

The guy who got us here and didnt get a decent crack of the whip imo.

Even SL/Dawes said of him "the man to take us forward" and "Prem manager in the making" too late now or could he bring back the fire and unite support?

Don’t let @Robboredsee this, ffs 

[RedLionLad]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

No.

It would be like bringing back your much loved Ford Escort to try and win a British Touring Car race.

 

[Robbored]

Just now, RedLionLad said:

Don’t let @Robboredsee this, ffs 

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

[Northern Red]

Just now, RedLionLad said:

It would be like bringing back your much loved Ford Escort to try and win a British Touring Car race.

 

Yep. Love the bloke for what he did here but his time has been and gone, and people forget how bad we were by the time he left (the reasons for which have been done to death)

[Fordy62]

He wasn’t given the funds that deserved his achievements before… why would he be given them now when we can’t afford it?

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yep. Love the bloke for what he did here but his time has been and gone, and people forget how bad we were by the time he left (the reasons for which have been done to death)

Exactly this. Plus he did really well in League One when he could identify the players he needed and we could afford to sign them. Getting the best out of bargains and youth players isn’t his skillset and that is what we need right now.

Edited December 26, 2022 by LondonBristolian

[formerly known as ivan]

Doing arguably a bette job at Shrewsbury than he done here if you were to compare what he had to work with.

Just not sure it would work him coming back here.

[Winterstoke toad]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

Care to elaborate?

[Supersonic Robin]

Absolutely not. Did well for us in L1, but has generally shown across his career that that's his level. Recall that we sacked him as he was struggling to keep us in the Championship.

Thanks to Cotts for his contributions, but bringing him back would be a very poor decision IMO.

[Lrrr]

The man who got us ‘here’…. 6 years after he’s gone, if anyone thought Cotts had more to offer football anymore he’d be managing a bigger club than Shrewsbury 

[bearded_red]

No.

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Yep. Love the bloke for what he did here but his time has been and gone, and people forget how bad we were by the time he left (the reasons for which have been done to death)

 

6 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

He wasn’t given the funds that deserved his achievements before… why would he be given them now when we can’t afford it?

 

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Exactly this. Plus he did really well in League One when he could identity the players he needed and we could afford to sign them. Getting the best out of bargains and youth players isn’t his skillset and that is what we need right now.

All these posters are correct.

I loved the bloke was one of very, very few on here who was delighted when we appointed him but he’s not the answer.

Will always be grateful with how quickly he turned us around though.

[CodeRed]

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

You all heard what SL said .....but why would he air all the woes and falling's out to the Senior Reds - he's not accountable to you lot is he?

You might as well say something's a fact because you heard a Government Minister say it on TV   

Edited December 26, 2022 by CodeRed

[Fordy62]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

But then you’re an insufferable **** who knows everything…

[BigTone]

6 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

But then you’re an insufferable **** who knows everything…

If someone doesn't eat all their veg then what do you expect ?

[marcofisher]

The same guy who wanted to sign Andre Gray at £9mill in 2015?

 

Great during that L1 season, although we did have the best team in the league. Not a manager who was going to tear up trees in the Championship and was quite negative in terms of youth development, so didn’t fit the culture at all once we got there.

Edited December 26, 2022 by marcofisher

[pongo88]

Could he cope with Steve Lansdown and vice versa? Probably not on both accounts 

[Street red]

No I wouldn't want him to waste his time why would he want to commit suicide by doing so.

[Atticus]

I'd take him over Pearson. 

 

[Guest]

2 days before he was sacked 12th Jan 2016 we lost at home to Preston our team was; o donnell, Ayling, Flint, Baker, Little (subbed for Burns) Pack, Smith, Freeman (subbed by Reid) Bryan, Wilbs, (subbed by Agard) and Kodjia lost by 1-2 to Preston; scorers for Preston Cunningham and Baker (own goal) some players there but 2 days later SC was shown the door after really a short 256days in championship; we have had a lot worse managers since, who have spent bucket loads and had much more time and got us.....well within a point or 2 from relegation spot, hardley great investments for your millions Steve L and co eh?

Edited December 26, 2022 by gl2

[Talk Of The Town]

52 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

He wasn’t given the funds that deserved his achievements before… why would he be given them now when we can’t afford it?

Didn’t we have big bids in for Dwight Gayle & Andre Gray though?

[pongo88]

9 minutes ago, gl2 said:

2 days before he was sacked 12th Jan 2016 we lost at home to Preston our team was; o donnell, Ayling, Flint, Baker, Little (subbed for Burns) Pack, Smith, Freeman (subbed by Reid) Bryan, Wilbs, (subbed by Agard) and Kodjia lost by 1-2 to Preston; scorers for Preston Cunningham and Baker (own goal) some players there but 2 days later SC was shown the door after really a short 256days in championship; we have had a lot worse managers since, who have spent bucket loads and had much more time and got us.....well within a point or 2 from relegation spot, hardley great investments for your millions Steve L and co eh?

I love this and I hate it. Love it, because it’s true and hate it because it illustrates how much has been wasted 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Winterstoke toad said:

Care to elaborate?

Every time the name SC gets mentioned in glowing terms I’ve explained several times what went down at SR when SL guest speaker at the Xmas dinner. 

I can’t be arsed to repeat it yet again.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I love this and I hate it. Love it, because it’s true and hate it because it illustrates how much has been wasted 

Dont know how many managers there have been  since SC or how much has been wasted by those managers but it was no-where near what this club rewarded SC with after getting us here in the first place; if cotts had those millions who believes we would still be here battling to stay out of the relegation zone a battle we will lose one day very soon now.

SL needs to reverse his many poor decisions and give SC a decent run at it, not likely I know but could and probably will do far worse....just look at his manager CV choice since.  

[Robbored]

57 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

But then you’re an insufferable **** who knows everything…

You’re getting me confused with Ian Gay.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

I dont know why,  did he upset Steves cornflakes?

[CodeRed]

21 minutes ago, gl2 said:

2 days before he was sacked ......

And - 2 days AFTER he was sacked Mark Ashton was appointed. (SC sacked Thursday evening....MA appointed Saturday morning -- clearly already lined up)  Cotts having refused to use Ashton's "recruitment model" preferring his own eyes and contacts. SL chose MA over SC.

And so it began.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, gl2 said:

The guy who got us here and didnt get a decent crack of the whip imo.

Even SL/Dawes said of him "the man to take us forward" and "Prem manager in the making" too late now or could he bring back the fire and unite support?

Never ever go back..

Unless your ex wife happens to be Nigella.

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

And - 2 days AFTER he was sacked Mark Ashton was appointed. (SC sacked Thursday evening....MA appointed Saturday morning -- clearly already lined up)  Cotts having refused to use Ashton's "recruitment model" preferring his own eyes and contacts. SL chose MA over SC.

And so it began.

It’s not like you CR to be so wide of the mark.

[Mendip City]

10 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

And Lingard 

And Harry Maguire

[Robbored]

36 minutes ago, Bobby Bollax said:

Didn’t we have big bids in for Dwight Gayle & Andre Gray though?

That was part of the reason that SC was sacked.

[CodeRed]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s not like you CR to be so wide of the mark.

I wouldn't go back for Cotterill - we've moved on and he's no longer what we need, but he gets unfairly slagged off, mostly by Robbored, who continually trots out the line SL fed to the Senior Reds. FWIW SL said Cotterill promised to do one thing at interview and did another in the job....referring to SL's requirement to develop youth and trade sustainably.  SL met those aims blooding players like Bryan and buying Kodjia for 2M and he went for 10M. Plus of course promotion.

But SL was seduced by Ashton's proposal to trade the club to promotion using his agents and database and make a profit in the process. SC thought Ashton was  a fraud and refused to work with his systems . ..and was fired.

So who was right?

Edited December 26, 2022 by CodeRed

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

I wouldn't go back for Cotterill - we've moved on and he's no longer what we need, but he gets unfairly slagged off, mostly by Robbored, who continually trots out the line SL fed to the Senior Reds. FWIW SL said Cotterill promised to do one thing at interview and did another in the job....referring to SL's requirement to develop youth and trade sustainably.  SL met those aims blooding players like Bryan and buying Kodjia for 2M and he went for 10M. Plus of course promotion.

So you were there then CR?  

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

I wouldn't go back for Cotterill - we've moved on and he's no longer what we need, but he gets unfairly slagged off, mostly by Robbored, who continually trots out the line SL fed to the Senior Reds. FWIW SL said Cotterill promised to do one thing at interview and did another in the job....referring to SL's requirement to develop youth and trade sustainably.  SL met those aims blooding players like Bryan and buying Kodjia for 2M and he went for 10M. Plus of course promotion.

But SL was seduced by Ashton's proposal to trade the club to promotion using his agents and database and make a profit in the process. SC thought Ashton was  a fraud and refused to work with his systems . ..and was fired.

So who was right?

Sounds pretty close to it to me.

[CodeRed]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

So you were there then CR?  

We're you?

[marcofisher]

Anyone else remember the SC who preferred to leave empty spaces on the bench, rather than include academy players? Clearly sending a message of his anger of lack of signings.
 

I loved SC in that L1 winning season. But nobody can say he really would fit the bill for the club’s strategy or the point at which we find ourselves now. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by marcofisher

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

For squaring up to our own fans in at Atyeo?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but your post are getting more and more arrogant with more and more self worth. 

All I’m saying is that @CodeRed’s summary seemed to be the general consensus of what happened with Cotts from all that we’ve heard / read.  What is arrogant about that?  It’s a simple post of agreement.

[Spike]

7 hours ago, marcofisher said:

The same guy who wanted to sign Andre Gray at £9mill in 2015?

I mean in all fairness Grey did go on to score 32 goals in 73 matches for Burnley and made his debut for them when they beat us 2-1 and then scored a hat trick against us in the next game against us. 

I wouldn't want Cotterill back but I do think he had a good eye for what we needed, we just couldn't get the players he wanted once we went up from league one. 

[Davefevs]

19 minutes ago, Spike said:

I mean in all fairness Grey did go on to score 32 goals in 73 matches for Burnley and made his debut for them when they beat us 2-1 and then scored a hat trick against us in the next game against us. 

I wouldn't want Cotterill back but I do think he had a good eye for what we needed, we just couldn't get the players he wanted once we went up from league one. 

I guess him and Keith Burt were the Lg1 equivalent of Pearson / Walsh (and Mackenzie) in terms of talent spotting.  And they spotted good players for the Champ too…just didn’t sign them (Gray / Maguire)!

[Andy082005]

9 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but your post are getting more and more arrogant with more and more self worth. 

Christ. I personally think Dave comes across as one of the best, most informative, laid back posters on here 

plus he is right to agree with CR

[Andy082005]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I mean in all fairness Grey did go on to score 32 goals in 73 matches for Burnley and made his debut for them when they beat us 2-1 and then scored a hat trick against us in the next game against us. 

I wouldn't want Cotterill back but I do think he had a good eye for what we needed, we just couldn't get the players he wanted once we went up from league one. 

People often scoff at the offers made for Andre Gray as unrealistic - however I’d hazard a guess investing £9m at the time on a striker like Gray, would have been far more beneficial then the money wasted with Little Lee over the next few years 

[Curr Avon]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

I know why Cotterill was sacked - just everyone who at Senior Reds Xmas lunch in December did.

He reacted badly when you pulled his cracker too hard?

[Robbored]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Sounds pretty close to it to me.

That’s pretty much what SL hinted at the Xmas SR dinner - and why I asked CR if he was there. 

[RUSSEL85]

This thread makes very interesting reading, and can I surmise that the season of goodwill to all men (and women) is now over?  

[GrahamC]

12 hours ago, marcofisher said:

Anyone else remember the SC who preferred to leave empty spaces on the bench, rather than include academy players? Clearly sending a message of his anger of lack of signings.
 

I loved SC in that L1 winning season. But nobody can say he really would fit the bill for the club’s strategy or the point at which we find ourselves now. 

He was absolutely shit at playing the corporate game, because if he had stuck some kid on the bench he had zero intention of bringing on then no one would ever have complained..

I loved the bloke full stop, his teams always gave everything, even when poor, he had a method & stuck to it & signed players with a clear idea of why & where they would fit in.

Read that last bit back, we deviated miles from it under LJ/Ashton & haven’t got near to it since.

Right up there with GJ for me but that ship has sailed now.

[eardun]

14 hours ago, gl2 said:

2 days before he was sacked 12th Jan 2016 we lost at home to Preston our team was; o donnell, Ayling, Flint, Baker, Little (subbed for Burns) Pack, Smith, Freeman (subbed by Reid) Bryan, Wilbs, (subbed by Agard) and Kodjia lost by 1-2 to Preston; scorers for Preston Cunningham and Baker (own goal) some players there but 2 days later SC was shown the door after really a short 256days in championship; we have had a lot worse managers since, who have spent bucket loads and had much more time and got us.....well within a point or 2 from relegation spot, hardley great investments for your millions Steve L and co eh?

And we were shocking that night and the atmosphere was toxic. If I recall correctly, Cotterill got into an argument with a fan. Personally - at the time - I wished we could have given Cotterill more time, but let’s not pretend everything was rosy back then. 

 

[One Team]

6 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He was absolutely shit at playing the corporate game, because if he had stuck some kid on the bench he had zero intention of bringing on then no one would ever have complained..

I loved the bloke full stop, his teams always gave everything, even when poor, he had a method & stuck to it & signed players with a clear idea of why & where they would fit in.

Read that last bit back, we deviated miles from it under LJ/Ashton & haven’t got near to it since.

Right up there with GJ for me but that ship has sailed now.

Good post and my opinion also. 

Despite our position at the time I don’t ever recall chants of wanting SC out at games or a swell of opinion that he should go. There was plenty of that under LJ and now it’s surfacing with NP but not under SC. 

To your point he didn’t play the politics, which ultimately cost him the job, whereas LJ went along with anything gladly. 

[One Team]

1 minute ago, eardun said:

And we were shocking that night and the atmosphere was toxic. If I recall correctly, Cotterill got into an argument with a fan. Personally - at the time - I wished we could have given Cotterill more time, but let’s not pretend everything was rosy back then. 

 

You are correct, I was near and saw that at the time but it wasn’t that bad and to my point above there were no Cotterill out chants, comments or bed sheets. You are also correct it wasn’t rosy, but nothing like LJ’s record breaking losing streak or NP now. 

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, eardun said:

And we were shocking that night and the atmosphere was toxic. If I recall correctly, Cotterill got into an argument with a fan. Personally - at the time - I wished we could have given Cotterill more time, but let’s not pretend everything was rosy back then. 

 

He also spent the first five months of the season constantly venting his frustration with the board in a passive aggressive way in every single media interview. The effect of which was there was a miserable atmosphere around the club and fans divided into camps and sniping at each other.

I absolutely loved what the guy did the previous season but it was obvious relationships irreparably broke down in the summer, and whoever’s fault it was, both he and the board nearly relegated the club via his refusal to walk and the board refusing to fire him.

[Lrrr]

14 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

He also spent the first five months of the season constantly venting his frustration with the board in a passive aggressive way in every single media interview. The effect of which was there was a miserable atmosphere around the club and fans divided into camps and sniping at each other.

I absolutely loved what the guy did the previous season but it was obvious relationships irreparably broke down in the summer, and whoever’s fault it was, both he and the board nearly relegated the club via his refusal to walk and the board refusing to fire him.

He also  refused to fill the bench with an academy player as a way of sending a message, hardly the type of person the club wants when we want our academy players to come through. I can't remember but did Cotterill play any academy players who hadn't already made their 1st team debuts? 

[Antman]

15 hours ago, Atticus said:

I'd take him over Pearson. 

 

i think ATM there are people who would rather take Benny Lennartson over Pearson.....

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

He also  refused to fill the bench with an academy player as a way of sending a message, hardly the type of person the club wants when we want our academy players to come through. I can't remember but did Cotterill play any academy players who hadn't already made their 1st team debuts? 

No, he didn’t but this is a pretty selective way to look at it.

He consistently chose Joe Bryan over Cunningham, Wes Burns was a regular in his squad for a fair while, Reid once we went up.

When Cotterill took over we were bottom four in L1, not exactly the best time to blood kids.

The next season was our sole title winning one in 60 years, the team virtually picked itself & we steamrollered everyone.

The following season we brought in Kodjia & no one else, struggled big time with the step up & I suppose he could have put someone apart from Burns or Reid in the squad but it would have been token stuff.

As has been posted above Cotterill wanted to move at a pace much faster than SL did, the latter (who didn’t want him in the first place) lost patience with poor results & brought in his prodigal son, who didn’t pick any kids that season either, by the way..

[REDOXO]

16 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

He wasn’t given the funds that deserved his achievements before… why would he be given them now when we can’t afford it?

There are one or two who come here, that appear to know what went down. If I remember correctly Deals we’re done for the forwards mentioned and maybe others but Mr Lansdown kaiboshed them as he didn’t like how they were done. Then SL changed his mind BUT the deals were lost. 

15 hours ago, marcofisher said:

The same guy who wanted to sign Andre Gray at £9mill in 2015?

 

Great during that L1 season, although we did have the best team in the league. Not a manager who was going to tear up trees in the Championship and was quite negative in terms of youth development, so didn’t fit the culture at all once we got there.

The culture when LJ came in did change. Ashton came in within days of Cotterill went and LJ was given money that SC never was. Wilbo said as much on a poddy! Steve always felt he wasn’t given the finances that LJ was. Which is undoubtedly true. 

58 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He was absolutely shit at playing the corporate game, because if he had stuck some kid on the bench he had zero intention of bringing on then no one would ever have complained..

I loved the bloke full stop, his teams always gave everything, even when poor, he had a method & stuck to it & signed players with a clear idea of why & where they would fit in.

Read that last bit back, we deviated miles from it under LJ/Ashton & haven’t got near to it since.

Right up there with GJ for me but that ship has sailed now.

The corporate game changed with Cotterill’s departure. Ashton and LJ were brought in and all of a sudden money was available for ‘clubs in the bag’. Utterly shit decision that has got us here. 
 

My thought is, Cotterill would never come back here, but if he did he would insist Lansdown stays in his tent in Botswana and playboy shows as much interest as he does now….NONE!

Edited December 27, 2022 by REDOXO

[Cityboy1954]

17 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

He wasn’t given the funds that deserved his achievements before… why would he be given them now when we can’t afford it?

The lansdowns biggest mistake has put us back to square one .

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

People often scoff at the offers made for Andre Gray as unrealistic - however I’d hazard a guess investing £9m at the time on a striker like Gray, would have been far more beneficial then the money wasted with Little Lee over the next few years 

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

The culture when LJ came in did change. Ashton came in within days of Cotterill went and LJ was given money that SC never was. Wilbo said as much on a poddy! Steve always felt he wasn’t given the finances that LJ was. Which is undoubtedly true. 

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Davefevs

[REDOXO]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

I would have him back in a heartbeat if he was available and we needed a manager. No one better than him for this situation in my opinion

However it’s more likely we would employ the devil himself before SC, sadly. 

[CodeRed]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

[Mr Popodopolous]

The only concern I have with the Maguire and Gray deals that never were, would be was it possible that it could have tipped us over £13m in FFP losses for that season at the prices agreed therefore an embargo applicable in January 2017? That 1 year rule was still in place at that time. Believe it is arguable either way.

Another critique I have is, could Cotts have shown a bit more patience and pragmatism in that season knowing that greater revenue streams will be heading his way in 2016-17, still a Championship club- redevelopment finishes therefore more money to spend. Instead that fell into the lap of Lee Johnson, he benefited from that growth in matchday and commercial revenue but had Cotts shown more patience he may have got it.

[Andy082005]

50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark.

Ashton was formally announced within days, but had returned in December to start plotting the exit of Cotts.

From BBC:

Very cleverly worded “first half of 2014”…sounds like he was responsible for Korey, Mark, Luke, Luke, Aaron, Wade and Kieran.  And he got a lot of kudos for something he had nothing to do with.  That summer recruitment (second half of 2014???) was Burt and Cotts, no Shitas Touch from Ashton.

 

 

I don’t want Cotts back, but I bloody loved him.

Interested to know your thoughts currently on Pearson Dave 

I’ve been very vocal around Pearson, however this is the first time in his tenure where I feel he is losing the dressing room, and control of the team. Even the senior players seem mythed …. Weimann yesterday summed it up for me.
 

I can remember when we were coming to the end of the Millen and O’Driscoll era and it’s all feeling all to familiar 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Andy082005

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

John Pelling was the bloke who allegedly tried to re-negotiate deals already done & was told to eff off.

He left fairly shortly after but it set the tone for the season, pretty sure by season’s start we’d only brought in Kodjia & Ryan Fredericks & the latter had left again after a month.

Edited December 27, 2022 by GrahamC

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

"Obviously this is all a bit unknown / speculation, but the story was we had Gray already agreed at £4-4.5m, and then went to £6m after it fell apart, and he then went to Burnley.  Re Gayle, it was something like £6m plus £3m in add-ons.  Maguire was around the £2m mark."

 

The story was it was Guy (can't remember his surname) who went back to Hull and Brentford and offered them less than Cotts had agreed - trying to be the tough negotiator and get an improved deal. The clubs weren't impressed and told him to do one and the prices increased as they were being messed around. Cotts was furious when he returned from holiday.

John Pelling!

17 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Interested to know your thoughts currently on Pearson Dave 

I’ve been very vocal around Pearson, however this is the first time in his tenure where I feel he is losing the dressing room, and control of the team. Even the senior players seem mythed …. Weimann yesterday summed it up for me.
 

I can remember when we were coming to the end of the Millen and O’Driscoll era and it’s all feeling all to familiar 

My thoughts:

I’m worried about our league position.

I want Nige to get us to the summer and us still be in the Championship.  Then we re-assess.

I think it is a very dangerous time to be thinking of changing the manager (I’m not btw).  

End of window - reflect on what’s happened.

End of January - new CEO hopefully announced and hopefully in situ.

I do think too many shoot straight for the manager…but I accept that’s what football fans do.

I’d lobe Pearson to come out and say “**** it, I’m gonna do it my way, sod trying to play a system that best fits the players, I’m gonna play a system that I want to play and the players fit into it, or tough shit”.

I think we are beginning to see Pearson start to get tough, and yes, partly because he’s under pressure.  But fans want a tough stance until it actually happens and then they shit themselves at the reality.  That is where I think we are NOW.  And I think many take the easy way out and that is sack the manager, something new will be better.

I think we need to be brave, I really think we need to get behind the team and see where we are at the end of January.  Many will say we need to act now.  Hey-ho.

So there you have it.

[Andy082005]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

John Pelling!

My thoughts:

I’m worried about our league position.

I want Nige to get us to the summer and us still be in the Championship.  Then we re-assess.

I think it is a very dangerous time to be thinking of changing the manager (I’m not btw).  

End of window - reflect on what’s happened.

End of January - new CEO hopefully announced and hopefully in situ.

I do think too many shoot straight for the manager…but I accept that’s what football fans do.

I’d lobe Pearson to come out and say “**** it, I’m gonna do it my way, sod trying to play a system that best fits the players, I’m gonna play a system that I want to play and the players fit into it, or tough shit”.

I think we are beginning to see Pearson start to get tough, and yes, partly because he’s under pressure.  But fans want a tough stance until it actually happens and then they shit themselves at the reality.  That is where I think we are NOW.  And I think many take the easy way out and that is sack the manager, something new will be better.

I think we need to be brave, I really think we need to get behind the team and see where we are at the end of January.  Many will say we need to act now.  Hey-ho.

So there you have it.

My real concern at the minute is his thought process on playing players out of possession. Lots being made of Andy King at centre back but playing Weimann where he is is absolutely criminal - he needs to be playing a more forward role like last year 

Two huge games coming up - I’m dreading it 

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

My real concern at the minute is his thought process on playing players out of possession. Lots being made of Andy King at centre back but playing Weimann where he is is absolutely criminal - he needs to be playing a more forward role like last year 

Two huge games coming up - I’m dreading it 

The issue with Weimann in the no10 is how exposed the other two in midfield are as a result.

And i think it’s kinda why I said what I said above about saying “**** it”.  He’s said he likes a front two with one in behind….go back to it then!  He likes a back 4…go and do it then.  Admittedly he’s then got to pick a midfield!

Two big games indeed.

Here’s my team (I hate doing these)

O’Leary

Tanner | Atkinson | Naismith | Pring

Scott | James | Massengo

Weimann

Conway | Wells

[Bris Red]

5 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

People often scoff at the offers made for Andre Gray as unrealistic - however I’d hazard a guess investing £9m at the time on a striker like Gray, would have been far more beneficial then the money wasted with Little Lee over the next few years 

Indeed. We’d have more than likely sold Andre Gray for a substantial profit  aswell - unlike most of LJ and Ashton’s signings who were signed for big money and are being allowed to walk out the door for free as nobody wants them.

[Spike]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I guess him and Keith Burt were the Lg1 equivalent of Pearson / Walsh (and Mackenzie) in terms of talent spotting.  And they spotted good players for the Champ too…just didn’t sign them (Gray / Maguire)!

I don't think it was good fault that he never signed him, Burnley got him for £6m, we offered £9m. Ultimately it came down to Grey had played for the Burnley manager previously and wanted to play for him again. I mean even without hindsight we were not his best option and Burnley did better than we did. 

Sometimes it's not about being the better manager or better club, it's other factors that the player focuses on. They had the bargaining tool of a manager he liked and wanted to play for, the rest is history. 

[Red-Robbo]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The issue with Weimann in the no10 is how exposed the other two in midfield are as a result.

And i think it’s kinda why I said what I said above about saying “**** it”.  He’s said he likes a front two with one in behind….go back to it then!  He likes a back 4…go and do it then.  Admittedly he’s then got to pick a midfield!

Two big games indeed.

Here’s my team (I hate doing these)

O’Leary

Tanner | Atkinson | Naismith | Pring

Scott | James | Massengo

Weimann

Conway | Wells

 

Liking the line-up - well, not liking, but it is the best we can achieve. 

I might be tempted to bring Bents back, assuming he isn't imminently about to depart. I seem to remember when he got dropped in the past, he was excellent when he got his place back. Just gets complacent when not challenged.