The Lansdowns are a pox on our club

[Malvern Red]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

…the wrong decisions at the wrong time

 

[ExiledAjax]

29 minutes ago, kmpowell said:

My 2p FWIW, from my personal thoughts into this very point...

A long time ago at the very start of my career, I had the absolute pleasure of working for HL from 2000-2008 (120 people in 2000, to post-float and over 600 people working for them in 2008), in a position where I had pretty much daily contact with PH and SL. Both of them are incredible when it comes to business, but they were/are very different drivers/personalities which IMO complimented each other, and the pair of them together were a force because they could challenge each other without fear or retribution. They also built a senior team of people at HL (many of who are still there today) who pretty much drove the company with them, that team were also varied and had equally driving/challenging personalities. That IMO was the key to HL's success, not PH or SL individually, but it was them together then as an expanding team. One thing that always surprises me is the way the two personalities (SL and PH) were/are portrayed and seen. I think you would be amazed to know that PH can be very compassionate and reasoned. Sure PH has a lot of northern noise and can be quite brash, but when it came to business he could be very measured and I indirectly learnt a lot from him. Over the years at BCFC I have witnessed both the strengths & weaknesses I also witnessed from SL at HL, for which I won't go into detail because this isn't a post that is designed to be 'personal' and I have a LOT of respect for the man and what he has done for this club.

So, the problem as I see it is there was/is nobody at BCFC who is in a position to challenge/help Steve in the same way PH (and the extended team) did at HL, and therefore SL has to make VERY hard decisions on his own and do what he thinks/wants, which sadly means some poor judgments have been made made over the years which IMO could have been avoided if there had been another voice in the room. But, for all the haters, there is no way on god's earth SL sets out for us to continue to be in this position, IMO it will however take help to get us to the next level. And by 'help' I don't mean his son, or family, or any 'yes man' like that parasite Ashton, but people like PH who would sit in a room and tell him exactly what they think, without penalty. Will that happen? I'm not sure it will, but I stay positive because if he did share and unburden some of the 'questions', we could be up there as one of the powerhouses of football.

Steve, if you are reading this (I know you sometimes do dip into this forum, because many years ago you gave me that subtle bollocking, which I rightly deserved!), my 2p from somebody who saw the incredible things you did at HL... continue trying to steer this ship on your own (with Jon) and IMO you are going to destroy your legacy and all the amazing things you have done for this club for which there is so so much!

I totally disagree with all the viritrol and 'pox' comments, this is just people's frustrations and by the very nature of Football it will happen, but sadly I also have no doubt this will all turn VERY toxic if we are relegated.

Excellent insight, and something I agree with. Steve has appointed his son and his trusted friend to be the directors, plus a CEO who is paid handsomely. There's no other external viewpoint, no independence, and no diversity of thought. SL - for some reason - doesn't seem to seek that out. Gould has brought a little bit of it, but he's been financially limited in what he can implement, and is now sadly leaving us.

It's interesting to hear that at HL that challenge, independence, and diversity of thought is exactly what he had, and that you see that as being critical to HL's success. 

[Red Cloud]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Zero faith in Steve's next managerial appointment, for obvious reasons. 

I'm astonished people haven't woken up to the fact we're for sale. 

A period of great uncertainty. 

I'm concerned Steve will hold out for unrealistic money. 

With so much financial uncertainty, it's a terrible time to sell unfortunately.

That said, the pound is weak, so a good time for American investors.

50/50 on what's being said but the Pound is certainly not weak - it's now >$1.21 from $1.08 only a few weeks ago

[Boston Red]

40 minutes ago, kmpowell said:

My 2p FWIW, from my personal thoughts into this very point...

A long time ago at the very start of my career, I had the absolute pleasure of working for HL from 2000-2008 (120 people in 2000, to post-float and over 600 people working for them in 2008), in a position where I had pretty much daily contact with PH and SL. Both of them are incredible when it comes to business, but they were/are very different drivers/personalities which IMO complimented each other, and the pair of them together were a force because they could challenge each other without fear or retribution. They also built a senior team of people at HL (many of who are still there today) who pretty much drove the company with them, that team were also varied and had equally driving/challenging personalities. That IMO was the key to HL's success, not PH or SL individually, but it was them together then as an expanding team. One thing that always surprises me is the way the two personalities (SL and PH) were/are portrayed and seen. I think you would be amazed to know that PH can be very compassionate and reasoned. Sure PH has a lot of northern noise and can be quite brash, but when it came to business he could be very measured and I indirectly learnt a lot from him. Over the years at BCFC I have witnessed both the strengths & weaknesses I also witnessed from SL at HL, for which I won't go into detail because this isn't a post that is designed to be 'personal' and I have a LOT of respect for the man and what he has done for this club.

So, the problem as I see it is there was/is nobody at BCFC who is in a position to challenge/help Steve in the same way PH (and the extended team) did at HL, and therefore SL has to make VERY hard decisions on his own and do what he thinks/wants, which sadly means some poor judgments have been made made over the years which IMO could have been avoided if there had been another voice in the room. But, for all the haters, there is no way on god's earth SL sets out for us to continue to be in this position, IMO it will however take help to get us to the next level. And by 'help' I don't mean his son, or family, or any 'yes man' like that parasite Ashton, but people like PH who would sit in a room and tell him exactly what they think, without penalty. Will that happen? I'm not sure it will, but I stay positive because if he did share and unburden some of the 'questions', we could be up there as one of the powerhouses of football.

Steve, if you are reading this (I know you sometimes do dip into this forum, because many years ago you gave me that subtle bollocking, which I rightly deserved!), my 2p from somebody who saw the incredible things you did at HL... continue trying to steer this ship on your own (with Jon) and IMO you are going to destroy your legacy and all the amazing things you have done for this club for which there is so so much!

I totally disagree with all the viritrol and 'pox' comments, this is just people's frustrations and by the very nature of Football it will happen, but sadly I also have no doubt this will all turn VERY toxic if we are relegated.

 

 

Great post. Is it true that Hargreaves was the visionary dynamic with the ideas, and Lansdown was the bean counter who followed behind him, made sure the sums added up, and did the donkey work of implementing the great ideas? If so that would explain why Lansdown has been successful in one field and not another. Interested in your thoughts.

 

[Boston Red]

Under Lansdown Bristol City Football Club has become just a jigsaw piece in a land-based speculative profit-motivated multi-sporting franchise.

[BigTone]

Probably one for the Politics section but I wonder what the reaction with fans would be if SL was approached by a Middle Eastern consortium ( UAE, Saudi, Qatar etc etc) to buy out Bristol Sport and decided to sell.  It is a very big possibility IMO.

 

[CliftonCliff]

24 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

Under Lansdown Bristol City Football Club has become just a jigsaw piece in a land-based speculative profit-motivated multi-sporting franchise.

That is a somewhat harsh over-simplification - but there is a disturbing amount of truth in it.

[Bristol Oil Services]

4 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Apart from the beautiful stadium, the state of the art training ground, the excellent academy and the fact that we have lasted in the Championship- what have the Lansdowns ever done for us??

Yes, and what is the point of all that "infrastructure" ? What has it been put in place for? What's it designed to lead to? To what end has SL gone to such great expense?

[Winterstoke toad]

31 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Probably one for the Politics section but I wonder what the reaction with fans would be if SL was approached by a Middle Eastern consortium ( UAE, Saudi, Qatar etc etc) to buy out Bristol Sport and decided to sell.  It is a very big possibility IMO.

 

My opinion is it wouldn’t matter what part of the world their from . Just because a new owner is from the Middle East doesn’t mean their involved in human rights abuses etc.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Excellent insight, and something I agree with. Steve has appointed his son and his trusted friend to be the directors, plus a CEO who is paid handsomely. There's no other external viewpoint, no independence, and no diversity of thought. SL - for some reason - doesn't seem to seek that out. Gould has brought a little bit of it, but he's been financially limited in what he can implement, and is now sadly leaving us.

It's interesting to hear that at HL that challenge, independence, and diversity of thought is exactly what he had, and that you see that as being critical to HL's success. 

Exactly this. Matthew Syed has written about this. 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Uncle Steve is a lovely bloke who wants a lovely football club , playing lovely football in a lovely stadium by lovely footballers and cheered on by lovely supporters. 
Sadly this is a cutthroat sport and there are nasty clubs who spoil our party time and time again with their nasty streetwise attitudes and rough supporters who out sing our lovely lads. 
 

Thing is, Steve's got all that with his "lovely" rugby team, and their ******* shite too (and would be relegated as well but for the fact rugby's all over the shop)

[BigTone]

16 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

My opinion is it wouldn’t matter what part of the world their from . Just because a new owner is from the Middle East doesn’t mean their involved in human rights abuses etc.

Agreed but a lot of others view things slightly different.

[Bat Fastard]

19 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Yes, and what is the point of all that "infrastructure" ? What has it been put in place for? What's it designed to lead to? To what end has SL gone to such great expense?

The fact that he was unlucky with the timing of the pandemic and the fact that it ruined the plan to be self sufficient by judicious player trading, I would suggest that there is a magnificent foundation for the eventual advancement of the playing squad and hopefully promotion.  Nige has been dealt a rotten hand and is still building a squad on a shoestring and making great use of the academy.  We have seen duff periods in our history over the years and we now have the ingredients to make progress. Of course, the missing ingredient is patience amongst the fan base - but that has always been a feature of our club.

[hollydog]

13 hours ago, WessexPest said:

Yes, I realise there aren’t exactly a busload of wealthy buyers at hand but the Lansdown family have engineered a slow and steady malaise of our club while making some boneheaded managerial appointments.

Yes, Pearson’s time is up - I don’t know what I expected from him but after two years at the helm it was certainly more than this rancid cheesewater - but why would you trust the morons at the head of our club who couldn’t organise their s*** into the pan to get it right next time? The whole rotten lot needs to go.

Short term there’s no outcome other than League One football. Unacceptable but sadly the reality. 

We all have our views about the owners but to use a word like “pox” to describe a family who has put so much money into the club we all love is rude and disrespectful. I spend a lot of time on OTIB checking out everybody’s views and enjoying feeling part of the “gang” but I wish some posters would take a breath before pressing the “submit reply” button. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

The fact that he was unlucky with the timing of the pandemic and the fact that it ruined the plan to be self sufficient by judicious player trading, I would suggest that there is a magnificent foundation for the eventual advancement of the playing squad and hopefully promotion.  Nige has been dealt a rotten hand and is still building a squad on a shoestring and making great use of the academy.  We have seen duff periods in our history over the years and we now have the ingredients to make progress. Of course, the missing ingredient is patience amongst the fan base - but that has always been a feature of our club.

Thanks. When might the/a pandemic have been better "timed" for Bristol City, would you say?

[maxjak]

13 hours ago, WessexPest said:

Yes, I realise there aren’t exactly a busload of wealthy buyers at hand but the Lansdown family have engineered a slow and steady malaise of our club while making some boneheaded managerial appointments.

Yes, Pearson’s time is up - I don’t know what I expected from him but after two years at the helm it was certainly more than this rancid cheesewater - but why would you trust the morons at the head of our club who couldn’t organise their s*** into the pan to get it right next time? The whole rotten lot needs to go.

Short term there’s no outcome other than League One football. Unacceptable but sadly the reality. 

What a bunch of tunnel visioned claptrap...........of course SL has made some very poor misjudgements, but his heart is in the right place, and without his 200 million input we would be phecked ?    Ashton's megalomania was SL's fault........but Covid's intervention certainly was not.

[Bat Fastard]

7 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Thanks. When might the/a pandemic have been better "timed" for Bristol City, would you say?

Sadly the transfer market outside the Premier League completely collapsed and we could no longer stem losses by selling players, let alone spending to improve the team.  It may take a year or two longer for all this to improve and in the meantime we have lots of excellent youngsters from the Academy, who will take time to find their feet and become steady players at Championship level.  Seeds have been sown and we still have too many seedlings and not enough mature plants - but seedlings tend to grow!

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Apart from the beautiful stadium, the state of the art training ground, the excellent academy and the fact that we have lasted in the Championship- what have the Lansdowns ever done for us??

Based on comments made yesterday Nige has crouched down in the centre circle and taken a shit in bigger and better stadia than ours……….so beautiful is going a bit strong.

Non Performance Centre - yep, credit for that but state of the art is again a slight exaggeration. Academy - he actually wanted to bin it didn’t he?

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, kmpowell said:

My 2p FWIW, from my personal thoughts into this very point...

A long time ago at the very start of my career, I had the absolute pleasure of working for HL from 2000-2008 (120 people in 2000, to post-float and over 600 people working for them in 2008), in a position where I had pretty much daily contact with PH and SL. Both of them are incredible when it comes to business, but they were/are very different drivers/personalities which IMO complimented each other, and the pair of them together were a force because they could challenge each other without fear or retribution. They also built a senior team of people at HL (many of who are still there today) who pretty much drove the company with them, that team were also varied and had equally driving/challenging personalities. That IMO was the key to HL's success, not PH or SL individually, but it was them together then as an expanding team. One thing that always surprises me is the way the two personalities (SL and PH) were/are portrayed and seen. I think you would be amazed to know that PH can be very compassionate and reasoned. Sure PH has a lot of northern noise and can be quite brash, but when it came to business he could be very measured and I indirectly learnt a lot from him. Over the years at BCFC I have witnessed both the strengths & weaknesses I also witnessed from SL at HL, for which I won't go into detail because this isn't a post that is designed to be 'personal' and I have a LOT of respect for the man and what he has done for this club.

So, the problem as I see it is there was/is nobody at BCFC who is in a position to challenge/help Steve in the same way PH (and the extended team) did at HL, and therefore SL has to make VERY hard decisions on his own and do what he thinks/wants, which sadly means some poor judgments have been made made over the years which IMO could have been avoided if there had been another voice in the room. But, for all the haters, there is no way on god's earth SL sets out for us to continue to be in this position, IMO it will however take help to get us to the next level. And by 'help' I don't mean his son, or family, or any 'yes man' like that parasite Ashton, but people like PH who would sit in a room and tell him exactly what they think, without penalty. Will that happen? I'm not sure it will, but I stay positive because if he did share and unburden some of the 'questions', we could be up there as one of the powerhouses of football.

Steve, if you are reading this (I know you sometimes do dip into this forum, because many years ago you gave me that subtle bollocking, which I rightly deserved!), my 2p from somebody who saw the incredible things you did at HL... continue trying to steer this ship on your own (with Jon) and IMO you are going to destroy your legacy and all the amazing things you have done for this club for which there is so so much!

I totally disagree with all the viritrol and 'pox' comments, this is just people's frustrations and by the very nature of Football it will happen, but sadly I also have no doubt this will all turn VERY toxic if we are relegated.

 

 

What a great post. Really interesting, great insight and some very good points. I’ve know exactly the same at work - that combination of the visionary coming up with all the ideas and the sometimes hard brained schemes, and the down to earth practical person who points out all the problems. And they both piss each other off, and very soon they both realise that they work so well together and need each other. 

It goes a long way to explaining some of the issues - and if he’s looking for investment rather than an outright sale then presumably he’s going to have someone involved at that level who’ll provide that challenge - assuming we get the right person, and not just an SL clone! 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Boston Red said:

Great post. Is it true that Hargreaves was the visionary dynamic with the ideas, and Lansdown was the bean counter who followed behind him, made sure the sums added up, and did the donkey work of implementing the great ideas? If so that would explain why Lansdown has been successful in one field and not another. Interested in your thoughts.

 

The major problem seems to have been,  that SL has failed to have taken advice and guidance from senior football figures when making appointments and crucial decisions?  Because he achieved great success in business, he has seemingly to have taken it as read that his own  perceived football acumen would have similar results?

If he had put aside his ego and taken counsel from knowledgeable football figures for advice, then maybe the outcome could and should have been so much better?

[The Swan and Cemetery]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

The major problem seems to have been,  that SL has failed to have taken advice and guidance from senior football figures when making appointments and crucial decisions?  Because he achieved great success in business, he has seemingly to have taken it as read that his own  perceived football acumen would have similar results?

If he had put aside his ego and taken counsel from knowledgeable football figures for advice, then maybe the outcome could and should have been so much better?

Unfortunately, Ashton’s role was probably exactly what was needed, but the individual was the opposite - someone with decent football knowledge, business acumen and competence and we might be able to a have a manager much more oriented towards coaching, rather than sorting out a lot of the background mess. As it is Pearson has to dedicate much of his efforts to off pitch problems (and rightly so in my view - this is O’Driscoll 2.0, frustrating on the pitch, but when he’s gone, we’ll be glad of what he sorted out). 

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Apart from the beautiful stadium, the state of the art training ground, the excellent academy and the fact that we have lasted in the Championship- what have the Lansdowns ever done for us??

Beauty is a perception, but we can measure excellence. Excellence would be category 1/player development efficiency. Bristol Citys academy is not cat 1 and not ranked in the top 15 academies in England for developing players = It is perfoming well, but not excellent. 

Your use of state of the art would indicate you feel BCFC have a training facility of the highest level. Versus the South West yes, but versus facilities at Villa, or Leicester or Southampton or many Championship sides and virtually all Premiership clubs its a big big no. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, gl2 said:

This beautiful stadium do we as a club have any say on who plays in it? and how much % wise do we get from concerts etc that also hire it? is it free for us to use it and its bars etc do we get that income? gen interested as anyone who is interested in buying us would they not also have to purchase the stadium as well?

Without getting into accounting “stuff” (and I’m not an Accountant anyway), for FFP purposes, we join BCFC Ltd with Ashton Gate Ltd and submit combined.

So any money AG makes from concerts helps us.

Any rent charged by AG to Bristol Bears helps us.

AG charges Bristol City rent too, but with all these “internal money transfers” one gains the other loses, so nets off in a simple world.

AG pays the interest on the loan to SL.

AG pays the cost of the stadium depreciation each year.

Re new investment, I can’t see why anyone would want to buy the football club alone in its current guise.  If it was knocking on the door of the PL, that future £100m+ p.a. would make it attractive.  But they could buy it without the stadium if they chose to.

4 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

People who think the Landsdowns are ‘a pox’ need to explain where the £20m + pa to cover our losses is going to come from without them? Vague ‘financial consortiums’ don’t come up with that sort of write off money, fans like SL do. And while I dare say that some is the spending under Junior/ Ashdown was unwise, these were the players ( ie this was the spending ) that allowed us to compete in the top half of the Championship. People on here who complain about ‘deadwood’ and ‘financial mismanagement’ really understand nothing about modern football, the effects of Covid or FFP. SL is a great chairman and when he’s gone- and I dare say he will be soon- we’re going to miss him mightily.

LB gets my view pretty right.

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Personally I think all discussions on the Lansdowns quickly fly to extremes. They aren’t a ‘pox’ on the club and plenty of clubs have far worse owners but we also get a bit stuck on the idea that, if they went, there is absolutely nobody else out there who would not destroy the club.

Truthfully - whether you feel it should have happened quicker or not - Lansdown has got us to a point where we have the foundations of a top flight club - in terms of quality of stadium, training ground and academy - but a combination of bad luck and the wrong decisions at the wrong time have meant he has not delivered top flight football and he has clearly reached a point where he needs the club to wash its own face - which few clubs do, especially whilst succeeding on the pitch - and is at least open to, and perhaps very keen on, selling out entirely.

Of course there are risks with a sale that we end up with a Sisu, a Mike Ashley or whoever it is at Charlton but we could also end up with a new owner who can take the facilities in place and appoint the necessary football people to finally deliver.

 

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Unfortunately, Ashton’s role was probably exactly what was needed, but the individual was the opposite - someone with decent football knowledge, business acumen and competence and we might be able to a have a manager much more oriented towards coaching, rather than sorting out a lot of the background mess. As it is Pearson has to dedicate much of his efforts to off pitch problems (and rightly so in my view - this is O’Driscoll 2.0, frustrating on the pitch, but when he’s gone, we’ll be glad of what he sorted out). 

Yes he ran the West Brom Community stuff, and blagged that through his mentor Mike O’Leary to get jobs at Watford and Oxford.  Then us, then back under O’Leary at Ipswich.

[eardun]

4 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Some of us don't judge ourselves against the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, mate. We need to set the bar higher than that!

Some just wonder why a club from the 8th biggest city in the country, with so many obvious advantages over about 75% of other professional clubs, continues to be such an under achieving mess - year after year after year.

One of the reasons for that is because some people are just happy we're doing better than the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, btw! 

That sort of mediocre mindset is one of a multitude of problems Pearson has to contend with here. It may even be the thing that defeats him - that not enough people want it, really want success down to their bones, want it so much it hurts.

Perhaps Bristol City - from whoever the owner is at the top, through whoever works for the club on and off the pitch, to whoever supports it from the stands - doesn't want success so much that it hurts? Perhaps we're all happy to just be doing ok, so long as it's better than the gas and Swindon and Plymouth? Perhaps it's something in the water or it's the Bristol DNA - success is nice but we can take it or leave at the end of the day?

What else can explain over 100 years of mediocrity, given all that we'vegot going for us? 

Imo Pearson isn't just trying to fix a leaky back 4, wobbly keepers, a non existent midfield, players eyeing more money and new contracts elsewhere, players offered less money to stay, an FFP blackhole - the death star that's sucking us backwards towards League 1. That's not all he's got on his plate. That's not all he's trying to fix.

Whether he realises it or not, he's also trying to fix Bristol and Bristolians. He's wrestling with a question of attitude, of mentality. And it might be the one thing that beats him, like it's beaten so many before.

Pray God, it doesn't. 

"Somerset, and the livin is easy, wurzels sleepin cos the cider is dry" as George Gershwin so accurately wrote. 

This is precisely what Pearson was saying re attitude and mentality in his pre-match press conference. So he certainly realises it and that is precisely the reason why I disagree with the sentiment that it is time for Pearson to go. There are not many managers who would have the balls to take it on and to see it through. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by eardun

[CiderJar]

I've only read 5 or 6 replies but I'm astounded. Can you imagine, or even remember, what it would be like without the Lansdowns? We've made huge strides as a club and memories of what it was like before seem very short.

[BigTone]

7 minutes ago, CiderJar said:

I've only read 5 or 6 replies but I'm astounded. Can you imagine, or even remember, what it would be like without the Lansdowns? We've made huge strides as a club and memories of what it was like before seem very short.

I think we need to be very cautious as to what we wish for as replacements. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

4 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Football League is nationwide.

Not just the South West & South Wales league!

 

3 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Some of us don't judge ourselves against the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, mate. We need to set the bar higher than that!

Some just wonder why a club from the 8th biggest city in the country, with so many obvious advantages over about 75% of other professional clubs, continues to be such an under achieving mess - year after year after year.

One of the reasons for that is because some people are just happy we're doing better than the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, btw! 

That sort of mediocre mindset is one of a multitude of problems Pearson has to contend with here. It may even be the thing that defeats him - that not enough people want it, really want success down to their bones, want it so much it hurts.

Perhaps Bristol City - from whoever the owner is at the top, through whoever works for the club on and off the pitch, to whoever supports it from the stands - doesn't want success so much that it hurts? Perhaps we're all happy to just be doing ok, so long as it's better than the gas and Swindon and Plymouth? Perhaps it's something in the water or it's the Bristol DNA - success is nice but we can take it or leave at the end of the day?

What else can explain over 100 years of mediocrity, given all that we'vegot going for us? 

Imo Pearson isn't just trying to fix a leaky back 4, wobbly keepers, a non existent midfield, players eyeing more money and new contracts elsewhere, players offered less money to stay, an FFP blackhole - the death star that's sucking us backwards towards League 1. That's not all he's got on his plate. That's not all he's trying to fix.

Whether he realises it or not, he's also trying to fix Bristol and Bristolians. He's wrestling with a question of attitude, of mentality. And it might be the one thing that beats him, like it's beaten so many before.

Pray God, it doesn't. 

"Somerset, and the livin is easy, wurzels sleepin cos the cider is dry" as George Gershwin so accurately wrote. 

 

3 hours ago, ZiderMeUp said:

Swindon and Cardiff both been in the prem. Cardiff twice.  Although swindon before lansdowns time

The point I was making in reply to the poster who named a few clubs that had been successful to demonstrate we were failing, I picked those clubs as they were our historic rivals and generally 20 plus years ago had been around the same divisions

If you look at some of the clubs that we were in the same division as in 02/03 whan SL took over, a fair few have not progressed as well, let alone had years of steady football in the championship Wigan, Crewe, Oldham, Tranmere, Plymouth, Swindon, Peterborough, Colchester, Stockport, Port Vale, Wycombe, Barnsley, Chesterfield, Cheltenham, Mansfield, 
Northampton 

Or teams that were in the division above us Portsmouth, Ipswich, Wimbledon, Gillingham, Walsaw, Derby, Bradford, Sheffield Wednesday

Of course there are many teams that have done well, some have had their day in the sun by splashing cash and now paying for it and as others have posted what could be achieved before FFP became so strict, others have pushed on and still in the prem or established championship teams

Size of city, crowds, cheque book, ambition or anything else is not a guarantee of being able to get promoted to the prem. You make well intention decisions without the luxury of hindsight 

 

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

20 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Size of city, crowds, cheque book, ambition or anything else is not a guarantee of being able to get promoted to the prem. 

You're absolutely right, it isn't a guarantee. We're living proof of that. 

But all those things are an advantage if a club is run competently, by competent people,  making competent decisions.

By and large, we haven't been.

By and large, we've been the opposite - incompetent.  Incompetent FC. Just one of too many pejorative adjectives you could apply to Bristol City FC. 

And that's what drives most of us to distraction - the ridiculous, laughable, criminal, frustrating, incompetent (more adjectives are available) waste of the massive potential that is BCFC. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[sh1t_ref_again]

9 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You're absolutely right, it isn't a guarantee. We're living proof of that. 

But all those things are an advantage if a club is run competently, by competent people,  making competent decisions.

By and large, we haven't been.

By and large, we've been the opposite - incompetent.  Incompetent FC. Just one of too many pejorative adjectives you could apply to Bristol City FC. 

And that's what drives most of us to distraction - the ridiculous, laughable, criminal, frustrating, incompetent (more adjectives are available) waste of the massive potential that is BCFC. 

So what is your definition of success, reaching the prem?

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Some of us don't judge ourselves against the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, mate. We need to set the bar higher than that!

Some just wonder why a club from the 8th biggest city in the country, with so many obvious advantages over about 75% of other professional clubs, continues to be such an under achieving mess - year after year after year.

One of the reasons for that is because some people are just happy we're doing better than the gas, Swindon and Plymouth, btw! 

That sort of mediocre mindset is one of a multitude of problems Pearson has to contend with here. It may even be the thing that defeats him - that not enough people want it, really want success down to their bones, want it so much it hurts.

Perhaps Bristol City - from whoever the owner is at the top, through whoever works for the club on and off the pitch, to whoever supports it from the stands - doesn't want success so much that it hurts? Perhaps we're all happy to just be doing ok, so long as it's better than the gas and Swindon and Plymouth? Perhaps it's something in the water or it's the Bristol DNA - success is nice but we can take it or leave at the end of the day?

What else can explain over 100 years of mediocrity, given all that we'vegot going for us? 

Imo Pearson isn't just trying to fix a leaky back 4, wobbly keepers, a non existent midfield, players eyeing more money and new contracts elsewhere, players offered less money to stay, an FFP blackhole - the death star that's sucking us backwards towards League 1. That's not all he's got on his plate. That's not all he's trying to fix.

Whether he realises it or not, he's also trying to fix Bristol and Bristolians. He's wrestling with a question of attitude, of mentality. And it might be the one thing that beats him, like it's beaten so many before.

Pray God, it doesn't. 

"Somerset, and the livin is easy, wurzels sleepin cos the cider is dry" as George Gershwin so accurately wrote. 

Nail on the head, especially the last two paragraphs.

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Without getting into accounting “stuff” (and I’m not an Accountant anyway), for FFP purposes, we join BCFC Ltd with Ashton Gate Ltd and submit combined.

So any money AG makes from concerts helps us.

Any rent charged by AG to Bristol Bears helps us.

AG charges Bristol City rent too, but with all these “internal money transfers” one gains the other loses, so nets off in a simple world.

AG pays the interest on the loan to SL.

AG pays the cost of the stadium depreciation each year.

Re new investment, I can’t see why anyone would want to buy the football club alone in its current guise.  If it was knocking on the door of the PL, that future £100m+ p.a. would make it attractive.  But they could buy it without the stadium if they chose to.

LB gets my view pretty right.

 

The "RENT" that we pay is not really rent. Before Bristol Sport existed the football club had to employ a ground staff and a ticket office staff. Maybe some other non football items.

Now, those people are employed by Bristol Sport and I assume that BCFC must pay for those items otherwise the EFL would accuse us of not entering all costs on our FFP report.

We gain some benefit from the fact that Bears are also paying their share of the stadium costs; probably about 35% as they play fewer games in their season.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

The "RENT" that we pay is not really rent. Before Bristol Sport existed the football club had to employ a ground staff and a ticket office staff. Maybe some other non football items.

Now, those people are employed by Bristol Sport and I assume that BCFC must pay for those items otherwise the EFL would accuse us of not entering all costs on our FFP report.

We gain some benefit from the fact that Bears are also paying their share of the stadium costs; probably about 35% as they play fewer games in their season.

No, it’s rent, paid by BC to AG at an arms length agreement.  It is a few / rent to cover the costs of AG, depreciation, loan interest, staff, etc.  The ground staff are paid by AG.

Ticketing, marketing is provided by BS, and BC pay them to do so, again at arms length agreement as separate company.

We are probably saying the sane things in different ways though.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

So what is your definition of success, reaching the prem?

Reaching the Prem is what the owner has talked about since he got here.

It's what umpteen managers, including the present incumbent, have talked about.

So I think we can assume that's the goal, that's success.

What I'm happy with is neither here nor there.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's what the owner has talked about since he got here.

It's what umpteen managers, including the present incumbent, have talked about.

So I think we can assume that's the goal. 

What I'm happy with is neither here nor there.

The prem is everyone's goal who are not in it, but that is not necessarily what dictates success or failure

As you are being critical, you must have an opinion as to what success means

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, it’s rent, paid by BC to AG at an arms length agreement.  It is a few / rent to cover the costs of AG, depreciation, loan interest, staff, etc.  The ground staff are paid by AG.

Ticketing, marketing is provided by BS, and BC pay them to do so, again at arms length agreement as separate company.

We are probably saying the sane things in different ways though.

So any potential buyer would have to buy the whole thing BS/AG/BC ? the loan/interest for the updating of the stadium from SL where does that go AG/BS/SL or ????? seems way more complicated than just plain old BCFC

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, CiderJar said:

 We've made huge strides as a club and memories of what it was like before seem very short.

So, the posts you haven't read do say that yes we have made strides, some very necessary ones at that (stadium/academy), but where it really matters - the ultimate stride forward - is on the pitch. And there, we're no further forward than before he arrived. 

Given Mr Lansdown continually states the Prem is the aim - and he's sacked managers for failing to deliver even the play-offs - I don't think it's unreasonable for some people to question his leadership when we continually fail to deliver the ultimate goal he himself has stated we are aiming for. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

The prem is everyone's goal who are not in it, but that is not necessarily what dictates success or failure

As you are being critical, you must have an opinion as to what success means

Which part of my original post is being critical? 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, gl2 said:

So any potential buyer would have to buy the whole thing BS/AG/BC ? the loan/interest for the updating of the stadium from SL where does that go AG/BS/SL or ????? seems way more complicated than just plain old BCFC

They don’t have to, Pula Sport is split into several companies

simple picture thanks Coppello

more detailed picture thanks Exiled Ajax

It could be split up as desired.  But my view is that the football club without the stadium would be very low value, and I don’t think SL is prepared to sell (any of it) on the cheap.

[sh1t_ref_again]

3 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Which part of my original post is being critical? 

 

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

You're absolutely right, it isn't a guarantee. We're living proof of that. 

But all those things are an advantage if a club is run competently, by competent people,  making competent decisions.

By and large, we haven't been.

By and large, we've been the opposite - incompetent.  Incompetent FC. Just one of too many pejorative adjectives you could apply to Bristol City FC. 

And that's what drives most of us to distraction - the ridiculous, laughable, criminal, frustrating, incompetent (more adjectives are available) waste of the massive potential that is BCFC. 

Sounds fairly critical to me

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

 

Sounds fairly critical to me

So you're saying we've been competently run? 

Fair enough. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So you're saying we've been competently run? 

Fair enough. 

You still chose not to answer if being in the prem was your measure of success

I don't agree with the vitriol and nonsense posted by some on here, which always seems to happen after a few losses. Has SL made mistakes, yes, could we have done better, yes, but its very easy to be critical of decisions with hindsight, FFS I can win the lottery every week with hindsight.

In general we are a well run club, who have had a long run at championship level, we are stable without risk of going out of business anytime soon as the owner is happy to underwrite the losses you incur running a football club.

We are in a tough FFP position, mainly due to the gamble of investing more money and backing Ashtons plan to trade players, coupled with some bad luck with injuries etc.

What would new owners bring? you can't put in anymore money due to FFP, so unless they have some cunning scheme of how to circumvent the system which in turn puts the club at risk, I don't see any benefit, so better the devil you know than the one you don't, as long as SL is prepared to invest the maximum he can.

It never an easy ride when trying to change, it seems that SL is listening to NP who is trying to change the culture and some of the unseen problems behind closed doors, our biggest risk is panic and going on a different course

[The Swan and Cemetery]

Don’t really get the extent to which lots seem to think we’ve massively under performed:

Since Divisions 1 to 4 introduced: 60% of seasons in top 2 divisions (4 in the top division, 37 in the second)

Since 1996 (SL’s first involvement?): 56% in the Championship

Since 2002 (SL chairman?): 67% in the Championship

Understand we’d want to have experienced the Premier League and are frustrated that some smaller clubs have (but equally lots of big clubs have spent quality time in lower divisions), but struggle to see it as ‘abject failure’ etc, more not getting what we want in a context when everyone is trying to go up, but not everyone can - we also haven’t gone down much. 

[CiderJar]

38 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

So, the posts you haven't read do say that yes we have made strides, some very necessary ones at that (stadium/academy), but where it really matters - the ultimate stride forward - is on the pitch. And there, we're no further forward than before he arrived. 

Given Mr Lansdown continually states the Prem is the aim - and he's sacked managers for failing to deliver even the play-offs - I don't think it's unreasonable for some people to question his leadership when we continually fail to deliver the ultimate goal he himself has stated we are aiming for. 

The trouble with apportioning blame to Steve Lansdown is that it is not an exact science. That goal can be missed even with exactly the right approach. We are the example of that. The fact that it hasn't happened is not a failure of leadership. If that were the case 24 teams would be promoted to the Premier league every season. All are stating that as their goal. I'm struggling to understand what Lansdown as an individual investor should be doing differently. Any ideas? In my opinion we are so much further forward than when he arrived, and even further forward than when we made the play off final and failed. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

7 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I don't agree with the vitriol and nonsense posted by some on here, which always seems to happen after a few losses. Has SL made mistakes, yes, could we have done better, yes, but its very easy to be critical of decisions with hindsight, FFS I can win the lottery every week with hindsight.

In general we are a well run club, who have had a long run at championship level, we are stable without risk of going out of business anytime soon as the owner is happy to underwrite the losses you incur running a football club.

We are in a tough FFP position, mainly due to the gamble of investing more money and backing Ashtons plan to trade players, coupled with some bad luck with injuries etc.

What would new owners bring? you can't put in anymore money due to FFP, so unless they have some cunning scheme of how to circumvent the system which in turn puts the club at risk, I don't see any benefit, so better the devil you know than the one you don't, as long as SL is prepared to invest the maximum he can.

It never an easy ride when trying to change, it seems that SL is listening to NP who is trying to change the culture and some of the unseen problems behind closed doors, our biggest risk is panic and going on a different course

Yep, agree with most of that.

But we are not a successful football club, we are a massively under achieving one both right here, right now and in the bigger, historical context.

[RedM]

6 hours ago, daored said:

FFP is a problem that we have to work around, but for me the question is who is responsible for putting us in this position, who approved the high wages / expenditure 

It was done under Ashton's watch of course, and of course he has had his fun and is working elsewhere. Unfortunately we now have had to spend years mopping up his mess.

I am really concerned though how a club employee, as highly trusted as he was, was able to do so much damage for so long without ringing alarm bells somewhere. Who exactly was watching him, who was he reporting too?!

I don't think the Lansdown are a 'pox', that's harsh and disrespectful. I do think though that they have to 'up their game' and be more involved, Jon at least must step up to the role. Same with Pearson if he stays, he has to deliver.

For what it's worth I think Richard Gould has been excellent, really knows his stuff and will be a big loss. I hope the next bloke will be as good as him.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, RedM said:

It was done under Ashton's watch of course, and of course he has had his fun and is working elsewhere. Unfortunately we now have had to spend years mopping up his mess.

I am really concerned though how a club employee, as highly trusted as he was, was able to do so much damage for so long without ringing alarm bells somewhere. Who exactly was watching him, who was he reporting too?!

I don't think the Lansdown are a 'pox', that's harsh and disrespectful. I do think though that they have to 'up their game' and be more involved, Jon at least must step up to the role. Same with Pearson if he stays, he has to deliver.

For what it's worth I think Richard Gould has been excellent, really knows his stuff and will be a big loss. I hope the next bloke will be as good as him.

Reporting into SL but as SL in Guernsey, JL was his ground-operative.

SL’s heart completely in the right place, just a bit misguided imho.

Agree re RG.

[Bristol Oil Services]

27 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Don’t really get the extent to which lots seem to think we’ve massively under performed:

Since Divisions 1 to 4 introduced: 60% of seasons in top 2 divisions (4 in the top division, 37 in the second)

Since 1996 (SL’s first involvement?): 56% in the Championship

Since 2002 (SL chairman?): 67% in the Championship

Understand we’d want to have experienced the Premier League and are frustrated that some smaller clubs have (but equally lots of big clubs have spent quality time in lower divisions), but struggle to see it as ‘abject failure’ etc, more not getting what we want in a context when everyone is trying to go up, but not everyone can - we also haven’t gone down much. 

Using the record of our previous owners here to judge the current one by? We're not in competition with ourselves, we're in competition with Luton, Millwall, Swansea, Cov ....

[RedM]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Reporting into SL but as SL in Guernsey, JL was his ground-operative.

SL’s heart completely in the right place, just a bit misguided imho.

Agree re RG.

I don't doubt his heart is in the right place, he probably is a bit too emotionally involved if you want to think of him purely being head of the business. No doubt Ashton dazzled him and as I said he must have trusted him almost without question. Yes obviously SL is based in the CI's, but come on zoom etc was available, he wasn't able to escape scrutiny, or he shouldn't have been.

I doubt if Steve was very happy he had been just about conned, that must have hurt quite a bit

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

I don't doubt his heart is in the right place, he probably is a bit too emotionally involved if you want to think of him purely being head of the business. No doubt Ashton dazzled him and as I said he must have trusted him almost without question. Yes obviously SL is based in the CI's, but come on zoom etc was available, he wasn't able to escape scrutiny, or he shouldn't have been.

I doubt if Steve was very happy he had been just about conned, that must have hurt quite a bit

Couldn’t agree more.  Guess a bit of a difference between zoom and the whites of his eyes.  But, yep, conned basically.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Using the record of our previous owners here to judge the current one by? We're not in competition with ourselves, we're in competition with Luton, Millwall, Swansea, Cov ....

Which still offers nothing to explain the view that seems to believe we’re pretty much on the Downs, rather than the lower half of the Championship, due to scandalous mismanagement by SL. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We've been over it many times. He's clearly lacked any footballing nouse. I'm just watching Brighton beat Saints on motd. 

Brighton got promoted to L1 the year Lansdown took charge. Swansea were in the basement division. 

Swansea and Brighton have been in their 'new' stadiums for a considerable amount of time longer than we have. 

They also got to the prem without the constraints of FFP. 

Ask any Swansea fan their thoughts on their American owners. 

95% of Championship clubs fans would live to have an owner like Lansdown. 

[ExiledAjax]

13 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Using the record of our previous owners here to judge the current one by? We're not in competition with ourselves, we're in competition with Luton, Millwall, Swansea, Cov ....

We are in competition with both ourselves and the other teams. 

Success can and should be measured in both ways. Raw league table success has its place as a measurement, but we must also ask if we are continuously improving, or at least attempting to continuously improve. 

If we continuously improve ourselves, and do so at a faster rate than our peers, then league table success will come.

A continual and consistent drive for improvement is the success I want to see.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Swansea and Brighton have been in their 'new' stadiums for a considerable amount of time longer than we have. 

Correct. Since 2005 and 2011 respectively iirc.

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

They also got to the prem without the constraints of FFP. 

Well yes and no. FFP was in place when Brighton went up, whether it was quite as restrictive as now dunno.

Swansea certainly it wasn't but they wouldn't have breached anyway they would have been within I reckon by today's £39m 3 year loss limit.

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ask any Swansea fan their thoughts on their American owners. 

Gone downhill badly under them although they run a reasonable ship financially.

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

95% of Championship clubs fans would live to have an owner like Lansdown. 

Unsure. Think he's been quite good and the infrastructure investment has been excellent, monetarily he has put a fair whack in but did he twist at the right times? Conversely there was big overspending at just the wrong time.

[Red-Robbo]

It's worth remembering that although Luton are now "fan-owned" - one "fan" owns 82% of their shares - during the time we've had Lansdown they've had two rogue owners who were more or less forced out due to fan disquiet and they spent 4 seasons in non-league, while Coventry's issues with its owners are well-known. 

Personally, I'd like to see an expanded, more football-savvy board and that probably means someone either buying in or buying up, and a reorganisation.   Bristol Sport isn't a bad idea, but it seems to have developed as some sort of unwieldy version of the Civil Service, rather than following the model foreign clubs have. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

38 minutes ago, RedM said:

It was done under Ashton's watch of course, and of course he has had his fun and is working elsewhere. Unfortunately we now have had to spend years mopping up his mess.

I am really concerned though how a club employee, as highly trusted as he was, was able to do so much damage for so long without ringing alarm bells somewhere. Who exactly was watching him, who was he reporting too?!

I don't think the Lansdown are a 'pox', that's harsh and disrespectful. I do think though that they have to 'up their game' and be more involved, Jon at least must step up to the role. Same with Pearson if he stays, he has to deliver.

For what it's worth I think Richard Gould has been excellent, really knows his stuff and will be a big loss. I hope the next bloke will be as good as him.

You can see the logic in the approach, backed by some notable previous successes in making money from transfers, if you then stepped it up a level and start paying big money for young talent as well as buying players from Prem clubs, it will overall raise your talent pool and be self financing by profiting from these players that you turn over and sell at a profit, until eventually you have a squad of players ready to challenge at the top of the championship and get promoted.

Great plan except, we did not really have the correct talent identification in place, MA had sold SL the dream and starts doing deals to blow smoke up his own backside whilst being wined and dined in Knightsbridge (8m for a defender!!) and by the time its clear we have bought the wrong players, covid hits to really **** us and MA has already seen the writing on the wall and lined up a new job.

Problem is, there is no magic solution to get promoted, otherwise every club would be doing it, then it would not work anymore

[Bristol Oil Services]

20 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Which still offers nothing to explain the view that seems to believe we’re pretty much on the Downs, rather than the lower half of the Championship, due to scandalous mismanagement by SL. 

It's very difficult to just tread water, in this division. To just pootle along. Who manages this? So success is getting promoted and arriving back in this division as one of the minted, PP clubs. 

Lansdown realised this, hence the rather steep challenge put before LJ: play-offs, minimum.

If we don’t get promoted from this division, going backwards at some point is almost guaranteed. So, I say again, success is promotion even if we're immediately relegated.

This is why LJ failed.

Look where we are now.

Rotherham, Yeovil, Burton, they cannot hope to get promoted from the Championship when they get to it. Any club with 25,000 seats and 20,000 plus fans in the Championship has to get promoted nowadays. If you don't, you're going to go back and down sooner or later.

There's no in between. Not when, if you finish 17th, you're best player is off. Every time.

So, again: success means going up, and to have any chance of that, 6th is a minimum  (even though it's a ridiculous "ask." Lansdown still has to ask it, there's no other option).

 

 

[Kodjias Wrist]

With the money spent I bet the Lansdowns can't believe how we haven't even managed to get in the championship playoffs after 15 seasons. 

The appointment of Holden after Tinnion and Millen took the utter piss and after the money thrown at LJ it was incredibly frustrating to see they had not learned their lesson.

All we ever wanted was a proven manager at this level and unfortunately Coppell whilst a very good appointment on paper ultimately set in motion our transition into league 1 again. 

SOD was also decent on paper but by then it was too late by then and he was the wrong man for a battle at the bottom. 

We finally have a proven manager again but he was handed a messy situation and whilst opinnions differ on how he has dealt with that, its no doubt a big task.

I feel with Lansdowns the only times they hired the right managers was Cotterill and Nige. Also we never get coaches who move on to better things. Look at Swansea. Martinez, Rodgers, Potter, Cooper. I know they are an anomaly but still....Just don't understand how we can't even make top 6 when Barnsley, Millwall and Luton all have recently. I really cannot put my finger on it. 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's worth remembering that although Luton are now "fan-owned" - one "fan" owns 82% of their shares - during the time we've had Lansdown they've had two rogue owners who were more or less forced out due to fan disquiet and they spent 4 seasons in non-league, while Coventry's issues with its owners are well-known. 

Personally, I'd like to see an expanded, more football-savvy board and that probably means someone either buying in or buying up, and a reorganisation.   Bristol Sport isn't a bad idea, but it seems to have developed as some sort of unwieldy version of the Civil Service, rather than following the model foreign clubs have. 

Me too.  I’ve long called out for football-savvy people at the higher levels.  I called for a Lenny Lawrence-type when both LJ and DH were appointed.  We’ve put a football man into recruitment with Tins at long last.

We can all agree / disagree on the manager (most disagree with me ) but we need to have clarity from above.

Hopefully the new CEO when announced will bring that and be a good fit with the “football” side.

[RedM]

15 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

You can see the logic in the approach, backed by some notable previous successes in making money from transfers, if you then stepped it up a level and start paying big money for young talent as well as buying players from Prem clubs, it will overall raise your talent pool and be self financing by profiting from these players that you turn over and sell at a profit, until eventually you have a squad of players ready to challenge at the top of the championship and get promoted.

Great plan except, we did not really have the correct talent identification in place, MA had sold SL the dream and starts doing deals to blow smoke up his own backside whilst being wined and dined in Knightsbridge (8m for a defender!!) and by the time its clear we have bought the wrong players, covid hits to really **** us and MA has already seen the writing on the wall and lined up a new job.

Problem is, there is no magic solution to get promoted, otherwise every club would be doing it, then it would not work anymore

Obviously there were a lot of gambles on the talent and of course we can see it clearly in hindsight. I can see why people got sucked in, we did a couple of good deals then Ashton managed to convince those that mattered that everything he touched he could turn to gold and was believed.

I just hope lesson have been learnt. Everyone should be accountable.

Also none of this was the fans doing, yet we are having to accept a poor product and have less options because of an ex employees actions. And people who could have prevented much of this don't seem to recognise this 

[daored]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Me too.  I’ve long called out for football-savvy people at the higher levels.  I called for a Lenny Lawrence-type when both LJ and DH were appointed.  We’ve put a football man into recruitment with Tins at long last.

We can all agree / disagree on the manager (most disagree with me ) but we need to have clarity from above.

Hopefully the new CEO when announced will bring that and be a good fit with the “football” side.

We’ve lacked a football man at the top of the club for too long , the club appointed one in Ashton and those at the top appear to have switched off and agreed to what he asked for , regardless of the consequences. 
Tins is a step forward and a welcome one but he will need support from a business operator , that appointment is now key 

[daored]

3 minutes ago, RedM said:

Obviously there were a lot of gambles on the talent and of course we can see it clearly in hindsight. I can see why people got sucked in, we did a couple of good deals then Ashton managed to convince those that mattered that everything he touched he could turn to gold and was believed.

I just hope lesson have been learnt. Everyone should be accountable.

Also none of this was the fans doing, yet we are having to accept a poor product and have less options because of an ex employees actions. And people who could have prevented much of this don't seem to recognise this 

There is no acknowledgment from the Lansdown family , generally at Christmas time we hear from Steve. Nothing this year from either him or our chairman 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, RedM said:

Obviously there were a lot of gambles on the talent and of course we can see it clearly in hindsight. I can see why people got sucked in, we did a couple of good deals then Ashton managed to convince those that mattered that everything he touched he could turn to gold and was believed.

I just hope lesson have been learnt. Everyone should be accountable.

Also none of this was the fans doing, yet we are having to accept a poor product and have less options because of an ex employees actions. And people who could have prevented much of this don't seem to recognise this 

Worse still you get this (paraphrased) kind of thing: 

I know a lot of fans don’t like Mark but he does a great job for me at the EFL and was instrumental in the RHPC or getting Cat 2 status.

which is basically a put down of the fans.

[sh1t_ref_again]

2 minutes ago, RedM said:

Obviously there were a lot of gambles on the talent and of course we can see it clearly in hindsight. I can see why people got sucked in, we did a couple of good deals then Ashton managed to convince those that mattered that everything he touched he could turn to gold and was believed.

I just hope lesson have been learnt. Everyone should be accountable.

Also none of this was the fans doing, yet we are having to accept a poor product and have less options because of an ex employees actions. And people who could have prevented much of this don't seem to recognise this 

But the fans wanted success and I do not remember a big outcry when we were signing all these players, in fact it was exciting times, but like all fans we live with the outcome good or bad.

I think the issue is time, as in the time it took to see the error of MA's ways, by then its too late you have spent the money and invested it so are committed to players and contracts, no doubt if he was challenged by SL for justification would have been able to give chapter and verse why each signing would be fantastic for us. 

[ray savino]

Said it before, say it again. We need a new impetus to our ownership/board. It feels very stale, has been for a few seasons now. Need football world nous to join to help decide/ change or implement a direction instead of changing strategy with every downturn. Lansdown has put his money where his mouth is in terms of infrastructure, buildings, etc. However his largely poor/mediocre recruitment and football decisions have floated between panic and desperation at times.

I don’t want Pearson to go in terms of him basically telling us the shit we have put ourselves in, and hope that he can at least steer us out of it to leave the platform clear for new enthused investors and a new progressive manager. Times running out result wise/fans patience wise, so the Lansdown board had better have a bloody inspired plan B if the next few results are crap. History doesn’t paint a good picture though. This is where we discover that Pochettino is a huge cider connoisseur and would jump at the chance to fulfil his ambition to settle on the mendips according to Roy DeAlien.

 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

43 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

It's very difficult to just tread water, in this division. To just pootle along. Who manages this? So success is getting promoted and arriving back in this division as one of the minted, PP clubs. 

Lansdown realised this, hence the rather steep challenge put before LJ: play-offs, minimum.

If we don’t get promoted from this division, going backwards at some point is almost guaranteed. So, I say again, success is promotion even if we're immediately relegated.

This is why LJ failed.

Look where we are now.

Rotherham, Yeovil, Burton, they cannot hope to get promoted from the Championship when they get to it. Any club with 25,000 seats and 20,000 plus fans in the Championship has to get promoted nowadays. If you don't, you're going to go back and down sooner or later.

There's no in between. Not when, if you finish 17th, you're best player is off. Every time.

So, again: success means going up, and to have any chance of that, 6th is a minimum  (even though it's a ridiculous "ask." Lansdown still has to ask it, there's no other option).

 

 

Think your definition of success is probably fair, less convinced not getting promotion is therefore ‘abject’ (etc) failure, as some have indicated. Given mathematics + parachute payments mean success is tricky, do think we need a Plan B which maybe not what we want, but doesn’t destroy our club for the BCFC masochists of the future. Think SL has probably done a decent job of Plan B (albeit maybe too much of it Bristol Sport, rather than Bristol City, although I can see the logic) with more non match day income streams etc, but Plan A hasn’t come to fruition/has failed - however I do have sympathy given it’s very tricky. The (simplistic) odds of finishing in the bottom 21 seven seasons in a row are approx 6/4, so we’re doing worse than evens, but not dramatically so. 

[Jacki]

6 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Beauty is a perception, but we can measure excellence. Excellence would be category 1/player development efficiency. Bristol Citys academy is not cat 1 and not ranked in the top 15 academies in England for developing players = It is perfoming well, but not excellent. 

Your use of state of the art would indicate you feel BCFC have a training facility of the highest level. Versus the South West yes, but versus facilities at Villa, or Leicester or Southampton or many Championship sides and virtually all Premiership clubs its a big big no. 

I’m reading a lot of stuff about facilities, the academy, Lansdown’s intentions etc. I understand that people are frustrated at the moment but some of it is no accurate imo.

I’m fortunate enough to be at the HPC often, and have visited training grounds all over the midlands, south and south west over the last couple of years. HPC is an absolutely top class facility and is right up there with any I have been to….. the only one that is in a completely different league is Chelsea, which is exactly what you would expect. The ones you mention are also excellent, but ours is right up there with them. Those facilities will stand us in good stead when we’re trying to attract players, for many years to come. 

The post from @kmpowell is one of the most interesting I’ve seen for a long time. I suspect that one is spot on…. The lack of diversity of thought and the fact that SL has taken too much responsibility is most likely one of the key parts of the problem. 

[Smokey]

11 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

People who think the Landsdowns are ‘a pox’ need to explain where the £20m + pa to cover our losses is going to come from without them? Vague ‘financial consortiums’ don’t come up with that sort of write off money, fans like SL do. And while I dare say that some is the spending under Junior/ Ashdown was unwise, these were the players ( ie this was the spending ) that allowed us to compete in the top half of the Championship. People on here who complain about ‘deadwood’ and ‘financial mismanagement’ really understand nothing about modern football, the effects of Covid or FFP. SL is a great chairman and when he’s gone- and I dare say he will be soon- we’re going to miss him mightily.

Lansdown shouldn't of kept spending money where he had to pump money into cover the loses to start with.

[Smokey]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Couldn’t agree more.  Guess a bit of a difference between zoom and the whites of his eyes.  But, yep, conned basically.

Or doing what Lansdown had asked if him to do?

[tin]

11 hours ago, kmpowell said:

My 2p FWIW, from my personal thoughts into this very point...

A long time ago at the very start of my career, I had the absolute pleasure of working for HL from 2000-2008 (120 people in 2000, to post-float and over 600 people working for them in 2008), in a position where I had pretty much daily contact with PH and SL. Both of them are incredible when it comes to business, but they were/are very different drivers/personalities which IMO complimented each other, and the pair of them together were a force because they could challenge each other without fear or retribution. They also built a senior team of people at HL (many of who are still there today) who pretty much drove the company with them, that team were also varied and had equally driving/challenging personalities. That IMO was the key to HL's success, not PH or SL individually, but it was them together then as an expanding team. One thing that always surprises me is the way the two personalities (SL and PH) were/are portrayed and seen. I think you would be amazed to know that PH can be very compassionate and reasoned. Sure PH has a lot of northern noise and can be quite brash, but when it came to business he could be very measured and I indirectly learnt a lot from him. Over the years at BCFC I have witnessed both the strengths & weaknesses I also witnessed from SL at HL, for which I won't go into detail because this isn't a post that is designed to be 'personal' and I have a LOT of respect for the man and what he has done for this club.

So, the problem as I see it is there was/is nobody at BCFC who is in a position to challenge/help Steve in the same way PH (and the extended team) did at HL, and therefore SL has to make VERY hard decisions on his own and do what he thinks/wants, which sadly means some poor judgments have been made made over the years which IMO could have been avoided if there had been another voice in the room. But, for all the haters, there is no way on god's earth SL sets out for us to continue to be in this position, IMO it will however take help to get us to the next level. And by 'help' I don't mean his son, or family, or any 'yes man' like that parasite Ashton, but people like PH who would sit in a room and tell him exactly what they think, without penalty. Will that happen? I'm not sure it will, but I stay positive because if he did share and unburden some of the 'questions', we could be up there as one of the powerhouses of football.

Steve, if you are reading this (I know you sometimes do dip into this forum, because many years ago you gave me that subtle bollocking, which I rightly deserved!), my 2p from somebody who saw the incredible things you did at HL... continue trying to steer this ship on your own (with Jon) and IMO you are going to destroy your legacy and all the amazing things you have done for this club for which there is so so much!

I totally disagree with all the viritrol and 'pox' comments, this is just people's frustrations and by the very nature of Football it will happen, but sadly I also have no doubt this will all turn VERY toxic if we are relegated.

Good post. And the irony here is that SL had those challenging opinions from the likes of Laycock and Davidson when they were directors but he bought them out to create this dictatorship. 20 years on and look where that’s got us (on the pitch).

As for JL, he did just as little for HL’s helpdesk during those times as he’s doing as chairman of our club. The bloke’s a privileged clown.