Nigel Pearson

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nige is canny, but from watching the presser he gave the impression of general surprise that Monaco might have a clause based on 100 league appearances. 

Interesting that the Anderlecht story came out today.  A few of us heard this a week or so ago.  Talk of another team in for him too.  

Yep - Nige plays the “I’m ignorant on these matters” card really well. Gives journalists nothing to come back with. He knows very well what’s going on.

He’s a clever guy.

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

If I remember correctly, Pearson has previously said the issue with Massengo was he was offered a new contract and he turned it down. Him and his representatives said this is what we are asking for, which in turned city then offered. Once this new deal that they had asked for was on the table they then decided they no longer wanted to agree to it.

 

And to be honest for a player of his age, despite the glimpses he’s shown, to only produce 3 assists and 0 goals in 99 games and then think he can go messing the club about like that, I can understand the stance the club have taken with this one if true.

My gut feel is:

• his original contract was very good for an 18 year old
• we now want him on a contract more in line with the wage structure in place post covid, ie less than his current deal
• he rejected it, says he wants to leave
• we went back with an improved deal matching his existing deal (knowing he will reject it) to at least guarantee compensation when he leaves
• all parties are just trying to get through to the summer unless another club come in for him in the meantime

[Vidal]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Ben Brereton Diaz is letting his contract run out and has in fact found his new club. We can safely conclude that his agent has been busy touting his name around for some time.

Should Blackburn have kept him in the reserves for the past few months on principle? Should they play him now?

Utter bizarre comparison 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

Current form?

Yep, he played for the 21s last week, he was awful.

[HitchinRed]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Yep - Nige plays the “I’m ignorant on these matters” card really well. Gives journalists nothing to come back with. He knows very well what’s going on.

He’s a clever guy.

You’re also suggesting he’s a bare faced liar.

[sh1t_ref_again]

19 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

If I remember correctly, Pearson has previously said the issue with Massengo was he was offered a new contract and he turned it down. Him and his representatives said this is what we are asking for, which in turned city then offered. Once this new deal that they had asked for was on the table they then decided they no longer wanted to agree to it.

 

 

Where did this come from, never heard or seen this before of us agreeing to his demands then turning us down

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Keep believing!

Why do you think it is then?

He’s playing absolutely brilliantly but we aren’t selecting him simply out of spite?

What would you do with a player who has already turned down a move away this month because he didn’t “fancy it”?

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, HitchinRed said:

You’re also suggesting he’s a bare faced liar.

People have to avoid the truth every day in work. If a Client asks why you haven’t completed that report yet or screeded a floor do you tell them they are bottom of your list of priorities and you were working on something else? If coming up with something else makes you a bare faced liar then there are plenty about………

[sh1t_ref_again]

This is the one thing I am frustrated with NP over, maybe if it was the 100 games scenario it would be more palatable.

I know opinions are mixed, but I rate HNM and would loved to have seen our midfield develop with him and Alex, as our best run of results this season was with Han in the team.

Sure someone will come back with how many goals or assists does he have, Han is probably the best player we have at interceptions and very rarely gives the ball away cheaply and gets us moving forward

I am disappointed the way its paned out and sure will go on to be a very good player, but we will only get minimal compensation, whereas had he been in the team znd playing well may have generated a decent fee.

 

[Robbored]

24 minutes ago, HitchinRed said:

You’re also suggesting he’s a bare faced liar.

It’s a skilled avoidance technique that Nige has used on numerous occasions over many years - No journalist would ever accuse Nige of being a liar - on what basis?       
 

 

 

 

[David Brent]

28 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

This is the one thing I am frustrated with NP over, maybe if it was the 100 games scenario it would be more palatable.

I know opinions are mixed, but I rate HNM and would loved to have seen our midfield develop with him and Alex, as our best run of results this season was with Han in the team.

Sure someone will come back with how many goals or assists does he have, Han is probably the best player we have at interceptions and very rarely gives the ball away cheaply and gets us moving forward

I am disappointed the way its paned out and sure will go on to be a very good player, but we will only get minimal compensation, whereas had he been in the team znd playing well may have generated a decent fee.

 

You can’t use personal opinion to have a go at the manager.

[cidered abroad]

43 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

This is the one thing I am frustrated with NP over, maybe if it was the 100 games scenario it would be more palatable.

I know opinions are mixed, but I rate HNM and would loved to have seen our midfield develop with him and Alex, as our best run of results this season was with Han in the team.

Sure someone will come back with how many goals or assists does he have, Han is probably the best player we have at interceptions and very rarely gives the ball away cheaply and gets us moving forward

I am disappointed the way its paned out and sure will go on to be a very good player, but we will only get minimal compensation, whereas had he been in the team znd playing well may have generated a decent fee.

 

He doesn't want to play for City any more so however good or bad he is is irrelevant.

It could be that if he makes 100 first team appearances, we have to pay Monaco a significant lump sum that we prefer to keep to help us with FFP. And why not as it could be  any sum  from £10,000 to a £million or more.

[Lew-T]

You can tell Nige likes the 2nd reporter in that interview, and you can understand why, the questions were very good and articulate.

The same can’t be said for the last reporter though… Christ!

[sh1t_ref_again]

12 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

He doesn't want to play for City any more so however good or bad he is is irrelevant.

It could be that if he makes 100 first team appearances, we have to pay Monaco a significant lump sum that we prefer to keep to help us with FFP. And why not as it could be  any sum  from £10,000 to a £million or more.

As I said it makes it more understandable if hitting an appearance level costs us money as a reason not to play him.

Han has refused a new contract, not said he does not want to play for us, in fact a while back NP stated he was training well and ready to play if asked.

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, David Brent said:

You can’t use personal opinion to have a go at the manager.

I’m of a similar position to @sh1t_ref_again, if I were manager I’d be including him…but I completely get why Nige is doing what he is.  It’s a brave decision too.  I liked the way he talked about OTC both post-match and today.

I look back at Diedhiou, and he might have beat his chest in front of the SS when we got a corner, he might’ve come from Knowle, but…his heart wasn’t in it for the second half of that season.  Han may have the best intentions, be as professional as possible each and every day, but if the manager has doubts on a Saturday he’s doing the right thing by not including him.

You’d think a club like Anderlecht would be attractive.  They have a new manager…Brian Riemer…assistant to Thomas Frank (Brentford) until last month.  Probably seen Massengo a few times!!!

9 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

You can tell Nige likes the 2nd reporter in that interview, and you can understand why, the questions were very good and articulate.

The same can’t be said for the last reporter though… Christ!

James Piercy today, Rich Forrester not there.  I think Richard Hoskin (on first) is good too,  it he tends to to simple questioning.  Jordan Jones (on third) is not that good, Nige looks like he finds it difficult to tolerate him!

[GrahamC]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

James Piercy today, Rich Forrester not there.  I think Richard Hoskin (on first) is good too,  it tends to be simple questioning.  Jordan Jones (on third) is not that good, Nige looks like he finds it difficult to tolerate him!

He’s not alone…

WTF was that question about Cardiff’s manager all about? It is clearly sad when people get sacked but I’m completely baffled as to where he was going with it.

[Lew-T]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

James Piercy today, Rich Forrester not there.  I think Richard Hoskin (on first) is good too,  it he tends to to simple questioning.  Jordan Jones (on third) is not that good, Nige looks like he finds it difficult to tolerate him!

James Piercy, that’s him! You get the feeling he’s the only one there that Nige feels comfortable with. Which allows NP to come out of his shell more and give more info. 
 

Another very good interview I thought. Apart from the last bit

[alexukhc]

Chances of Han going to Hibs come the summer?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Lew-T said:

James Piercy, that’s him! You get the feeling he’s the only one there that Nige feels comfortable with. Which allows NP to come out of his shell more and give more info. 
 

Another very good interview I thought. Apart from the last bit

He lets him talk.  He’s not afraid to tell Nige that wasn’t what he was asking and get him to change the angle of his answers.  He’s a fine writer too imho, I like the way he writes in.  I see Rich Forrester’s writing style evolving along a similar vain. 

I’m a bit biased because he was the guy who let me write my pre-match opposition analysis and hosted them on their platform and along with Gregor, opened a few doors for me as a result.

[GrahamC]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

He lets him talk.  He’s not afraid to tell Nige that wasn’t what he was asking and get him to change the angle of his answers.  He’s a fine writer too imho, I like the way he writes in.  I see Rich Forrester’s writing style evolving along a similar vain. 

I’m a bit biased because he was the guy who let me write my pre-match opposition analysis and hosted them on their platform and along with Gregor, opened a few doors for me as a result.

James is really very good.

Not as convinced as you about Rich but it is still relatively early days.

[mozo]

13 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Completely different when he’s by far their best player. Massengo isn’t a starter for us and as a young lad would be standing in the way of other youngsters coming through like Omar who made his debut Tuesday . 

So you're saying it's not something that we're doing on principle?

By your logic we could have two players in identical situations but we'd treat them differently. That doesn't sound right?

Plus he's played 99 times for the club and has been man of the match on several occasions. We've also had games where his energy and quality could have improved the team.

Omar's first appearance is encouraging but let's not claim he's a better player than Massengo at this current time.

[mozo]

11 hours ago, Vidal said:

Utter bizarre comparison 

Go on...

[Lanterne Rouge]

12 hours ago, Aipearcey said:

If I remember correctly, Pearson has previously said the issue with Massengo was he was offered a new contract and he turned it down. Him and his representatives said this is what we are asking for, which in turned city then offered. Once this new deal that they had asked for was on the table they then decided they no longer wanted to agree to it.

 

And to be honest for a player of his age, despite the glimpses he’s shown, to only produce 3 assists and 0 goals in 99 games and then think he can go messing the club about like that, I can understand the stance the club have taken with this one if true.

I thought it was COD that had an improved offer that met what he was asking for and he then turned that down? I could well be wrong though.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I thought it was COD that had an improved offer that met what he was asking for and he then turned that down? I could well be wrong though.

Ha! I thought that was Fammy!

[Engvall’s Splinter]

45 minutes ago, mozo said:

Go on...

Probably the fact that Diaz contributes regularly with goal involvements and is one of the more desired forwards in the division. Provides consistent contribution on a match day. The same can’t be said of Massengo - has often flattered to deceive (when selected).. 

[frenchred]

12 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Why do you think it is then?

He’s playing absolutely brilliantly but we aren’t selecting him simply out of spite?

What would you do with a player who has already turned down a move away this month because he didn’t “fancy it”?

Got the details of who he turned down?

Or just more unfounded bullshit?

[italian dave]

11 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

He doesn't want to play for City any more so however good or bad he is is irrelevant.

It could be that if he makes 100 first team appearances, we have to pay Monaco a significant lump sum that we prefer to keep to help us with FFP. And why not as it could be  any sum  from £10,000 to a £million or more.

When has he said he doesn’t want to play for us? 

Something else I’ve missed, along with those detailed contract offers??

[Numero Uno]

It's utterly bizarre that some people appear to be getting genuinely angry that a player is not being picked when not one of us knows the contract situation and what has been said and done behind the scenes. How can something you know nothing about get you that emotional? He's either picked or he isn't....................you can't have the answers to everything as there are items of information that will disadvantage the club if it is put in the public domain. Same as any business.

Whilst I think we are in a position of not needing to pick him because we have other options and his performances this season haven't merited it if Nige selects him today then so be it, nothing to lose your shit over.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

13 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nige is canny, but from watching the presser he gave the impression of general surprise that Monaco might have a clause based on 100 league appearances. 

There’s a difference between undroppable and being a regular in the 18.  As Percy says below…

…he’s had some good games this season, Brum was awful.  All of our players have been inconsistent in the main, but don’t get accused so heavily as Han does.

 

 

Re other comments comparing to other players contract situations, especially using Vyner as the comparison.  Has Vyner said he intends to leave in the summer?  Nope.  Huge difference.

Interesting that the Anderlecht story came out today.  A few of us heard this a week or so ago.  Talk of another team in for him too.  

 

Massengo is a subject we will never agree on..........is he a very good technical footballer? Yes, of course, but he doesn't work at OUR club and the counter attacking style we play. Value for money wise he is yet another example of an extremely poor buy. Just another one of far too many crap investments dropping off the conveyor belt and why we find ourselves where we are. His output, end product, call it what you like, for me, is utterly insufficient for the money we have spent on transfer fee, wages, and the likely significant loss we will make on the kid. How can a midfield player of his type go 100 games without scoring a single goal?

These things happen though, it's not down to lack of ability, bad attitude or for the want of trying and I'm sure the boy will do a lot better elsewhere but as far as I'm concerned it just hasn't worked out here for whatever reason and the sooner we are rid the better. The ruthless approach we are taking applies as much to him as anyone else.

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Massengo is a subject we will never agree on..........is he a very good technical footballer? Yes, of course, but he doesn't work at OUR club and the counter attacking style we play. Value for money wise he is yet another example of an extremely poor buy. Just another one of far too many crap investments dropping off the conveyor belt and why we find ourselves where we are. His output, end product, call it what you like, for me, is utterly insufficient for the money we have spent on transfer fee, wages, and the likely significant loss we will make on the kid. How can a midfield player of his type go 100 games without scoring a single goal?

These things happen though, it's not down to lack of ability, bad attitude or for the want of trying and I'm sure the boy will do a lot better elsewhere but as far as I'm concerned it just hasn't worked out here for whatever reason and the sooner we are rid the better. The ruthless approach we are taking applies as much to him as anyone else.

By and large this is how I see it. The kid did not develop beyond the neat little drag backs and getting between the opposing player and the ball. Four years and we have what we had on day one. 
 

As much as I would like the kid to go on win the World Cup and make us 40% of gazillions it’s not going to happen here. All of this nonsense about contracts is the kid and his advisors pretty much thinking the same thing. 
 

I had to laugh about the thought that Anderslecht have an interest. If it’s only one club (and I have my doubts) it would seem most likely he’s here until June. If that’s the case so be it.

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

By and large this is how I see it. The kid did not develop beyond the neat little drag backs and getting between the opposing player and the ball. Four years and we have what we had on day one. 
 

As much as I would like the kid to go on win the World Cup and make us 40% of gazillions it’s not going to happen here. All of this nonsense about contracts is the kid and his advisors pretty much thinking the same thing. 
 

I had to laugh about the thought that Anderslecht have an interest. If it’s only one club (and I have my doubts) it would seem most likely he’s here until June. If that’s the case so be it.

The other issue with Massengo which is why he probably gets judged on higher standards as @Davefevs mentions is that we now have Scott. Another lad who I would like to see a bit more from in terms of direct assists and goals BUT you can literally see the quality he has, the improvement he is making, the attitude that top players need and what he brings to the party. That little outside of the foot ball to Pring last week, perfectly weighted and two seconds later it's in the back of the net............you just know, watching Scott, that he is nowhere near his ceiling. Does anybody really know what HNM's ceiling is?

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Ha! I thought that was Fammy!

No, Famaral had the hugeous contract offer in the history of BCFC on the table and didn’t sign it but at least we got our value on the pitch.

17 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Does anybody really know what HNM's ceiling is?

Plasterboard painted Magnolia. 

[mozo]

57 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Probably the fact that Diaz contributes regularly with goal involvements and is one of the more desired forwards in the division. Provides consistent contribution on a match day. The same can’t be said of Massengo - has often flattered to deceive (when selected).. 

I'm not comparing them as players besides then both being young first team players.

What I'm saying is that at a football club you have to have a consistent approach to what the club deem inappropriate conduct.

So if the club has a principle that if a player refuses to sign a new contract (not a crime, btw), and tells the club they intend to leave when the contract ends, then they will be banished from first team football, then that principle should apply whether it's your best player or worst player.

For me it makes no sense paying £8k per week to a player who is fit and has obvious quality only to exclude them from first team football. 

So for me there has to be more to this. NP stated Massengo brought the situation upon himself, so I have to assume/hope that Massengo has done more than just say he's leaving eventually. 

Davefevs used Vyner as a comparison. Now for all we and the club knows, Vyner might also be determined to leave. His agent might be touting his name far and wide. But he hasn't told the club he intends to leave. Players are always running contracts down and leaving clubs. There needs to be a bigger behavioural issue I reckon.

[mozo]

I'm not sure what is different in the Semenyo and Massengo situations. Both are refusing to sign a new contract and both want to leave the club. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

It's utterly bizarre that some people appear to be getting genuinely angry that a player is not being picked when not one of us knows the contract situation and what has been said and done behind the scenes. How can something you know nothing about get you that emotional? He's either picked or he isn't....................you can't have the answers to everything as there are items of information that will disadvantage the club if it is put in the public domain. Same as any business.

Whilst I think we are in a position of not needing to pick him because we have other options and his performances this season haven't merited it if Nige selects him today then so be it, nothing to lose your shit over.

I hope you’re not including me in those ‘some people’! Because, for the reasons we’ve agreed on above, I’m not angry that he’s not being picked.
But I’m angry (probably not the right word) when people make stuff up and then state it as fact - whether that’s about his contract offers or about him saying he doesn’t want to play for us. 

And also about how some people (not you!) seem to take it as a personal affront that he won’t sign a new contract when we want him to and believes that he can get a better opportunities elsewhere.

I’m slightly concerned (from the point of view of our league position of nothing else) when he doesn’t even make the bench on a day when there are no other midfielders in sight - but recognise that there might be other stuff going on behind the scenes. I just hope it’s not the club taking the same affronted view! 

I like the guy. For all the issues, he’s given me two or three of the most memorable individual performances and a little bit of pleasure in what’s been a pretty miserable last three years  watching City.

Wasn’t there a small midfielder once before who divided opinion in much the same way….who knows, HNM returns to manage us in the future?!

Edited January 21, 2023 by italian dave

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

James is really very good.

Not as convinced as you about Rich but it is still relatively early days.

“Evolving”

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Got the details of who he turned down?

Or just more unfounded bullshit?

We don’t know whether he has “turned down”, but Nige said yesterday “there was talk about Anderlecht” (19:25 into presser).

Which was Graham and I heard from different sources a week / 10 days ago.

So I’m guessing not “unfounded bullshit”.  Both of us also heard there was another team interested too.  I heard he “wasn’t sure” about Anderlecht.

50 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Massengo is a subject we will never agree on..........is he a very good technical footballer? Yes, of course, but he doesn't work at OUR club and the counter attacking style we play. Value for money wise he is yet another example of an extremely poor buy. Just another one of far too many crap investments dropping off the conveyor belt and why we find ourselves where we are. His output, end product, call it what you like, for me, is utterly insufficient for the money we have spent on transfer fee, wages, and the likely significant loss we will make on the kid. How can a midfield player of his type go 100 games without scoring a single goal?

These things happen though, it's not down to lack of ability, bad attitude or for the want of trying and I'm sure the boy will do a lot better elsewhere but as far as I'm concerned it just hasn't worked out here for whatever reason and the sooner we are rid the better. The ruthless approach we are taking applies as much to him as anyone else.

I often throw in a pic of Korey Smith’s goals and assists contributions.  Or Matty James.  I know we have different views, but I do think there are some who use goals / assists as the only measure.  You could argue that the games he’s played with Alex Scott have been some of his best performances.  You could argue he might actually be suited to Nige’s new set-up.

My view is there’s a player in there…who’s been badly advised or is homesick, or a combo of both.  He’s put a lot into his career to maximise his opportunity to become a better player…And at 21, I’m disappointed we won’t see how he develops.  He’s younger than Owura Edwards.  Alex Scott is just unique for a club like us.

27 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

By and large this is how I see it. The kid did not develop beyond the neat little drag backs and getting between the opposing player and the ball. Four years and we have what we had on day one. 
 

As much as I would like the kid to go on win the World Cup and make us 40% of gazillions it’s not going to happen here. All of this nonsense about contracts is the kid and his advisors pretty much thinking the same thing. 
 

I had to laugh about the thought that Anderslecht have an interest. If it’s only one club (and I have my doubts) it would seem most likely he’s here until June. If that’s the case so be it.

As per above, Nige confirmed Anderlecht yesterday.  The other club I’ve heard would make more sense if he’s waiting on that.  I’ll happily share a screenshot of the message (names cropped out) if that makes the news at some point.

[chinapig]

9 minutes ago, mozo said:

So for me there has to be more to this. NP stated Massengo brought the situation upon himself, so I have to assume/hope that Massengo has done more than just say he's leaving eventually.

When the position became clear Nigel spoke positively about him as a person and a player. He said they had had a discussion and HNM said he would be ready if Nigel ever needed him to play.

There was no evidence of any conflict between them and let's face it Nigel can be pretty blunt about a player's attitude if he doesn't like it!

[glynriley]

16 hours ago, GrahamC said:

So why was on the bench v Watford, then?

With no intention to ever bring him on?

That makes absolutely no sense, especially as Kadji was available.

Conspiracy theory rubbish.

People are taking this 99 appearances shout as read. 
Yet according to our digital programme this morning he’s played 110..?

[frenchred]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We don’t know whether he has “turned down”, but Nige said yesterday “there was talk about Anderlecht” (19:25 into presser).

So nothing to say he turned down a team because he didn't fancy it then

3 minutes ago, glynriley said:

People are taking this 99 appearances shout as read. 
Yet according to our digital programme this morning he’s played 110..?

99 league games

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

So you're saying it's not something that we're doing on principle?

By your logic we could have two players in identical situations but we'd treat them differently. That doesn't sound right?

Plus he's played 99 times for the club and has been man of the match on several occasions. We've also had games where his energy and quality could have improved the team.

Omar's first appearance is encouraging but let's not claim he's a better player than Massengo at this current time.

Where did I claim he’s a better player I didn’t did I. Plus your comparison between Han & their best player is ridiculous 

[Vidal]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Go on...

I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 years.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

So nothing to say he turned down a team because he didn't fancy it then

I thought you were referring to the Anderlecht bit.

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, Vidal said:

I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 

You've missed the point then? The similarity is that they both have chosen not to sign a new contract and both intend to leave their respective clubs. 

So I would assume they should be treated equally? But it seems that some of us feel that punishing a player for that behaviour only applied if the player doesn't score goals.

[Vidal]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

You've missed the point then? The similarity is that they both have chosen not to sign a new contract and both intend to leave their respective clubs. 

So I would assume they should be treated equally? But it seems that some of us feel that punishing a player for that behaviour only applied if the player doesn't score goals.

Why would they be treated equally when one is far superior and offers more value than the other . 

[petehinton]

All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. 
 

Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. 
 

He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. 

[mozo]

10 minutes ago, Vidal said:

I’m surprised this even needs explaining, but Brereton-Diaz is a 15-20 goal a season forward, and one of the best players in the championship, Massengo is a 1 assist in 30 player who has 1 good game in 2 years.

Maybe our opinions differ because I think Massengo would have improved our team at times and you don't?

Massengo is an established first team player, rightly in my opinion. Surely any first team player would be treated equally irrespective of their goalscoring?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

43 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Plasterboard painted Magnolia. 

Nice to know who's on top, Major

[Vidal]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Maybe our opinions differ because I think Massengo would have improved our team at times and you don't?

Massengo is an established first team player, rightly in my opinion. Surely any first team player would be treated equally irrespective of their goalscoring?

No not really. I think he has proven to be a really poor signing. An excellent first month which has been followed by a string of poor performances with the odd good game thrown in. Poor decision making time and time again, spends far too long on the ball, positionally all over the place….hasn’t worked out.

Massengo has never been an established first team player, and no, they won’t get treated equally, the fact you think this shows your naivity.

[frenchred]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought you were referring to the Anderlecht bit.

No I wasn't that but is pretty clear with what Pearson said yesterday the bit I was referring to was that HNM had turned down a club in this window as he didn't fancy it

 

[mozo]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. 
 

Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. 
 

He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. 

We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him.

To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision.

But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. 

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

When has he said he doesn’t want to play for us? 

Something else I’ve missed, along with those detailed contract offers??

Not this season but long term he is not wanting a new contract after June 2023, so in effect he doesn't want to play for BCFC.

[glynriley]

18 minutes ago, frenchred said:

 

99 league games

We can use him for our cup run then

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him.

To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision.

But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. 

Don’t totally disagree, but iirc we’ll still get a fairly chunky bit of compensation @Davefevs), even more so if he goes abroad which he more than likely will?

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Got the details of who he turned down?

Or just more unfounded bullshit?

Anderlecht, Pearson mentioned it in the press conference yesterday.

Or is Pearson in this camp as well?

[Vidal]

1 minute ago, petehinton said:

Don’t totally disagree, but iirc we’ll still get a fairly chunky bit of compensation @Davefevs), even more so if he goes abroad which he more than likely will?

Can’t see him staying in England. Can go to a top European side I.e Magnússon, and quality will be lower than champ

[frenchred]

Just now, GrahamC said:

Anderlecht, Pearson mentioned it in the press conference yesterday.

Or is Pearson in this camp as well?

At no point did Pearson say he turned down Anderlecht as he didn't fancy it as you inferred 

[DaveF]

11 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Chances of Han going to Hibs come the summer?

Zero.

[Vidal]

13 minutes ago, petehinton said:

All you have to ask yourself is, are we any more dependent on HNM since the day he walked in? Absolutely not. If he left tomorrow, nothing would change on the pitch tbh. 
 

Can the same be said for Semenyo, Scott? God no. Even conway, we’ve become far more expectant/reliant on him in the space of his first 8 games than Massengo has managed in 3 years, that’s the sad truth of it. 
 

He doesn’t deserve an improved contract, and doesn’t even deserve an extension of the terms he’s on currently given the change in economic factors externally and internally. 

Well said. Disappointing to see how it’s turned out.

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

At no point did Pearson say he turned down Anderlecht as he didn't fancy it as you inferred 

You believe what you like, to be honest put me on ignore if you like, I’m not sure we are gaining much by replying to each other, you contradict everything I post & I have zero respect for your opinion.

[The Bard]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

We can agree to disagree on that one. I still think he's got loads of potential and that there were games where he could have had an impact had we selected him.

To me, leaving him in the reserves is to City's detriment and so would require a good reason for that decision.

But if you, Vidal, Stevie and others don't rate him then it's no surprise we see the situation differently. 

The good reason is there are at least 4 better proven Championship players ahead of him plus an old head who covers gaps and 2 promising players being given opportunities. If we were desperately short of players he'd play but we're not.

I see virtually no detriment to him being left out. It's the same argument with Bentley. If we kept playing him after the aberration at Birmingham it would make no sense as he's clearly leaving. We're finding out that Max is up to this level IMO

[mozo]

8 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Don’t totally disagree, but iirc we’ll still get a fairly chunky bit of compensation @Davefevs), even more so if he goes abroad which he more than likely will?

It would definitely be better to get that compensation in than pay his wages for no output. 

I'll state the obvious... given the situation we could do with this happening in this window!

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The good reason is there are at least 4 better proven Championship players ahead of him plus an old head who covers gaps and 2 promising players being given opportunities. If we were desperately short of players he'd play but we're not.

I see virtually no detriment to him being left out. It's the same argument with Bentley. If we kept playing him after the aberration at Birmingham it would make no sense as he's clearly leaving. We're finding out that Max is up to this level IMO

Funnily enough if I had to describe Joe Williams this season, I'd say there's a player in there but he's too inconsistent. Which is exactly how people describe Massengo.

At times I'd rather have had Massengo on the pitch than Williams.

But we all see it differently. 

[redsquirrel]

tbh,the best thing about him is he  looks like a right handful in a city kit.  pato was miles ahead of him and brownhill miles ahead of pato. alex scott has filled the gap somewhat but a brownhill replacement is still missing for me

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Vidal said:

No not really. I think he has proven to be a really poor signing. An excellent first month which has been followed by a string of poor performances with the odd good game thrown in. Poor decision making time and time again, spends far too long on the ball, positionally all over the place….hasn’t worked out.

Massengo has never been an established first team player, and no, they won’t get treated equally, the fact you think this shows your naivity.

That’s a very unbalanced view, just painting a picture of all the negatives.  I get he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but there are a list of positives too.

Generally - I think there is far too much focus on “end product”, binary metrics like goals and assists.  His game is about so much more than this.

But I’ve written these counter arguments so many times.

OTIB is full on end-sided arguments, usually on the negative side

Massengo - positionally all over the place (could not be our biggest interceptor?)

James - a slug, immobile (could he not be positionally aware?)

Don’t get me wrong, data doesn’t prove everything, but it highlights a lot of bias / unconscious bias.

These are just 2 pics / 16 metrics that show more about what each City Midfielder brings in different areas.  I think we miss a lot of what a player brings because we enjoy the negative narrative.

I think he’s got good ability, mixed in with poor bits of his game…he’s mixed, he’s inconsistent.

He’s twenty-effing-one!

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

12 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Chances of Han going to Hibs come the summer?

Is that an LJ link?  Do you think LJ will be there in the summer?  I think he needs a bit of an upturn in the second half of the season to survive.

[Vidal]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s a very unbalanced view, just painting a picture of all the negatives.  I get he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but there are a list of positives too.

Generally - I think there is far too much focus on “end product”, binary metrics like goals and assists.  His game is about so much more than this.

But I’ve written these counter arguments so many times.

OTIB is full on end-sided arguments, usually on the negative side

Massengo - positionally all over the place (could not be our biggest interceptor?)

James - a slug, immobile (could he not be positionally aware?)

Don’t get me wrong, data doesn’t prove everything, but it highlights a lot of bias / unconscious bias.

These are just 2 pics / 16 metrics that show more about what each City Midfielder brings in different areas.  I think we miss a lot of what a player brings because we enjoy the negative narrative.

I think he’s got good ability, mixed in with poor bits of his game…he’s mixed, he’s inconsistent.

He’s twenty-effing-one!

 

 

 

A huge disappointment. 

[Bazooka Joe]

14 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

This is the one thing I am frustrated with NP over, maybe if it was the 100 games scenario it would be more palatable.

I know opinions are mixed, but I rate HNM and would loved to have seen our midfield develop with him and Alex, as our best run of results this season was with Han in the team.

Sure someone will come back with how many goals or assists does he have, Han is probably the best player we have at interceptions and very rarely gives the ball away cheaply and gets us moving forward

I am disappointed the way its paned out and sure will go on to be a very good player, but we will only get minimal compensation, whereas had he been in the team znd playing well may have generated a decent fee.

 

Mass or Massengo?

For me, if doesn't want to accept a reasonable offer and play for the club, he mass go.

If/when he goes, as per the French language. we will be Sans Noah Massengo.

 

[Bazooka Joe]

12 hours ago, alexukhc said:

Chances of Han going to Hibs come the summer?

I think you're the only proclaimer of this.

But, if he did, at least he wouldn't have to walk 500 miles, (or even 500 more) to get there.

[firstdivision]

17 hours ago, mozo said:

Ben Brereton Diaz is letting his contract run out and has in fact found his new club. We can safely conclude that his agent has been busy touting his name around for some time.

Should Blackburn have kept him in the reserves for the past few months on principle? Should they play him now?

I definitely wouldn’t play him today…

[mozo]

10 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

I definitely wouldn’t play him today…

Totally agree, Blackburn should drop Brereton Diaz completely for one game to punish his flagrant disloyalty