Where does this leave us?

[awbb]

Talk of expectations of top 10 is optimistic. The issue, as I see it, is that we will still need to control the wage bill.

Theoretically, this January we have improved, or at least given ourselves a higher ceiling in the future and we have reduced our player wage expenditure again, though I wouldn't think we are quite at the target level yet. Squad make-up is still not perfect. Needing an extra CB and not getting one is a bit of a facer but ultimately we have to stay up this year and ideally get the majority of the 2023/24 squad plenty of experience in the way we want to play next year. I fully accept that this is "perfect world" stuff though.

What happens in the summer? It's still hard to have any expectations, but, on a simplistic level, I would imagine we probably have 2-3 million to play with as far as money available to spend, which is the remainder of the Semenyo deal (a chunk of which was used for Mehmeti, Cornick and paying up Martin and Klose's contracts) with hopefully a fair bit kept back, if not for a rainy day then at least to keep the auditors at the EFL happy for FFP. On that note, I suspect saving a little, however small, on paying up Martin and Klose is something we can show the EFL as positive attempts to meet the rules if they decide we warrant extra attention.

Assuming we need to cut the wage bill further, Dasilva is fully expected to be released and any replacement will almost certainly be on considerably less than Jay's expiring contract. I also expect Kalas to walk at this point, though I'm perfectly content to be proven wrong. I imagine his replacement (and another to fill out the need at CB) will probably be a push as far as salary goes, even if Kalas were to stay. Just so we don't forget, Kalas and Dasilva leaving at the end of this season represent an estimated £10.5 million in transfer fee's leaving for nothing.

The big "if" is Scott. We all know that it is unlikely for him to remain a Bristol City player beyond the 2023 summer transfer window and if he does go, he will generate a transfer fee that would cover even our most egregious single season outlays over the last few years and then some. The issue with large sales made under Mark Ashton was that they were seen as an excuse to massively increase the wage bill. COVID has put the stoppers on Championship club wage inflation somewhat and we are clearly focusing heavily on that expenditure so it is unlikely we will spend a lot of it. Which, of course, means we should do everything in our power to keep Scott!

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by awbb

[James54De]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We still have stupidly high “other costs” that drags it down.  Nige is doing his bit on the pure football side, other parts of the business need to do their bit too.

What are these other cost? Service payments on our debt? 

[Alessandro]

5 minutes ago, Henry said:

Are we though?

Right now, first choice is Zak and Rob. If Zak gets injured, Kalas comes in. If Rob is injured, Naismith drops back. 

I don’t remember Zak ever being injured. CB is not a position you tend to rest or rotate. I’m comfortable with our position in defence.

We were heading into the window with the defence being strengthened. It’s a huge credit to the defence, and Nigel, that it was no longer a priority and we could add to our attack and creativity. 

IMO yes. Let's put this into context. Are we happy with where we are in the league and are we happy with our performances?

1) Yes we're looking a little 'safer' now, but only 1 month ago we'd slipped to 3 points and 3 places off the relegation zone.

2) Only 5 teams have conceded less goals than us vs only 7 have scored more than us - that suggests creativity isn't the issue.

3) Zak has been excellent (and a good injury record doesn't mean he won't get one), Rob has a mistake in him. How fit it Kalas? How long will he stay fit? Naismith is now very important (and arguably better) in our midfield. King has had to play at least 5 times at CB.

One injury or red card suspension could unbalance the team in the short/medium run. Yes we're probably fine, but an upgrade or more cover would have been very helpful IMO to avoid shifting fullbacks and CM's into CB if needed.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 hours ago, James54De said:

Squad looks like this:

GK

Max O’Leary

Niki Haikin

RB

George Tanner

Kane Wilson

CB

Zak Vyner

Rob Atkinson

Tomas Kalas

Kal Naismith

LB

Cam Pring 

Jay Dasilva

MID

Matty James

Alex Scott 

Joe Williams 

Andy King

Mark Sykes

(Kal Naismith)

Ayman Benarous

FWD

Nahki Wells

Tommy Conway

Andi Weimann

Sam Bell

Harry Cornick

Anis Mehmeti

 

We’re a little weak at centre half, very week in fact.

 

Dasilva gone 

[Gert Mare]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

I dunno. There’s only 2 remaining players (academy aside) left in the squad from the LJ/Ashton period, and both will be gone in 18 games time (Kalas, Dasilva). 

Those 2 aside, plus Williams (signed by Holden), this is Pearson’s squad now. 

What pleases me Har is the shift in mentality. Pearson has been firm (to some fans displeasure) but fair and you can see the team performing now as more of a solid unit. The West Brom game should have given the players the belief that they can more than just compete at this level when they do what they need to do.

I'm happy with the window signings because we're now attacking at pace, beating people and getting balls into the box with defenders facing the wrong way. It's old fashioned but still bloody effective. 

For years I have been pulling my hair out watching slow build up possession play, allowing the opposition to get as many men behind the ball as possible and watching us pass it backwards and forwards across the 18 yard box, failing to find a slight gap and then retreating to the half way line.

Much better football now. Pearson has had to have teflon shoulders and fair play to him. I'm more than happy that he's in charge, but would love to see him have the level playing field that his predecessors had when it comes to being able to spend to get exactly who you want.....with at least 3 transfer windows of it!

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 hours ago, James54De said:

Looks like Kadji is off on loan, also. 

Good game time needed

[Rocking Red Cyril]

10 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

It certainly looks like a much changed , more risky squad than a month ago. We have lost a lot of experience but brought in some excitement if you include Bell coming through.

A little light in defence and a player too many in attacking areas perhaps 

Will we be expecting to get Currie and O'Brien in the summer?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

10 hours ago, Sturny said:

I think we’ve come out of this window stronger, it’s a shame the defence wasn’t addressed but can’t have everything. 
 

Kalas coming back could help, but not counting on it. 

Surely as we are light at the back with our defense signings not getting through. Kalas will be a big part of the defensive set up for the rest of the season . Which I am cool with 

[James54De]

4 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Dasilva gone 

No, he hasn’t. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, James54De said:

Really? Surely we were not on course for a 22 million pound loss this season?

I think we're going to be in the high teens, even with Semenyo's £10m. The basic balance sheet for BCFC Holdings Ltd (the company that reports for FFP purposes) shows our £28.2m loss for last season, and the £38m loss the season before. Wages are listed as "Staff costs" and came down from £35.3m in 2020/21 to £30.3m in 2021/22 (a 14% reduction). Amortisation dropped by about £3.5m (down 23%). Player trading was £6m profit in 2020/21 and £1.2m profit in 2021/22. 

Very rough fag-packet pub sketch of this seasons balance sheet, with assumptions, is as follows. Let's assume the same % reduction for wages and amortisation. That takes the wage bill down to £26m, saving £4.3m. Amortisation comes down to £9m, saving £2.7m (@Davefevs will have a more accurate amortisation forecast). So we can generously give ourselves a further £7m savings. Semenyo's £10m plus the £1-2m spent on Mehmeti and Cornick, means maybe a £8m profit. So our net gain over last season is something like £15m.

Add that to last year's losses and you're looking at a £13m loss for 2022/23.

So yeh, before Semenyo's sale we were probably on course for a low £20m's loss this season.

We might see some extra income somewhere (for example we have about £300k coming from FIFA for Semenyo and Diedhou's time in Qatar), and maybe some other savings here and there, and it's a pretty rough formula just using the same % reductions as last season. But conversely any further free agent signings or payouts for add-ons to Cornick or Mehmeti will change that.

Edited February 1, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Surely as we are light at the back with our defense signings not getting through. Kalas will be a big part of the defensive set up for the rest of the season . Which I am cool with 

 

Depends, doesn't it, how the injury and long period out affects him. Some players are never as good again. Some have even come back better however. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

5 minutes ago, James54De said:

No, he hasn’t. 

Just rechecked  and yes he has not gone. Sorry thought that went through last nite . My mistake . Well good cover for pring . I expect he on reduced contract now then ?

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Just rechecked  and yes he has not gone. Sorry thought that went through last nite . My mistake . Well good cover for pring . I expect he on reduced contract now then ?

Dasilva? No he'll be on the same contract, runs until the end of the season then he's a free agent. Nothing changed with him.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, James54De said:

What are these other cost? Service payments on our debt? 

It’s the big unknown that isn’t really broken down in the accounts.  Undoubtedly costs incurred by Ashton Gate Ltd and Bristol Sport, charged to Football, but lord knows what else.

[bcfcredandwhite]

39 minutes ago, Selred said:

Been on the bench the last 2 games

Been on the bench the last 2 games

I'd not noticed that. That's good news. 

[Mad Cyril]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

@Davefevs

Might see some extra income somewhere (for example we have about £300k coming from FIFA for Semenyo and Diedhou's time in Qatar).

Why would FIFA send us money for Diedhou when he isn't our player. Is this a bung or just dodgy money laundering?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Dasilva? No he'll be on the same contract, runs until the end of the season then he's a free agent. Nothing changed with him.

Okies ta 

[soultrader]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It’s the big unknown that isn’t really broken down in the accounts.  Undoubtedly costs incurred by Ashton Gate Ltd and Bristol Sport, charged to Football, but lord knows what else.

Not having that .... a post based on actual checkable facts.

Whatever happend to wild conjecture?

 

 

[And Its Smith]

53 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Late to this but "academy aside" is actually the main bulk of the squad! 

And does Weimann and Wells being offered renewed terms negate who brought them in? 

This is still some way off being "Pearson's squad" imo, after the summer we will be most of the way to him having his first turn of having his own squad where nobody is here who he doesn't want to be. But even then, squad building is a process and we are trying to change things patiently.

Still, plenty to like about what's going on. If we can have a good summer I'm confident we've got a good chance of marked improvement in results next season.

If we don't scrape playoffs this time anyway  

I’m not sure there is a manager in the 92 clubs who would have signed every player in their squad.  Who bought Wells or Weimann in isn’t that relevant when you consider that Pearson wants them here and kept them here rather than moving them on. Two good decisions I would say.  After this summer Pearson will have either signed or given a contract to our first XI and a majority of our first team squad.  Kalas, Scott and Dasilva will leave and I would imagine a LB, 2 x CB and a CM will be signed.  That will certainly then be his squad.   Personally, I like to give a manager one year too long than one year too short so next season I would hope for mid table, positive goal difference,  defensive stability on the whole and better consistency in performance.  Play off push 2024/5

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I’m not sure there is a manager in the 92 clubs who would have signed every player in their squad. 

 

Well, maybe Gareth Ainsworth 

[ExiledAjax]

26 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

Why would FIFA send us money for Diedhou when he isn't our player. Is this a bung or just dodgy money laundering?

Because he played for us within two years before the world cup. We will receive about 25% of the total payment for Diedhiou. Alyanspor will get the rest. We'd have been given money for Wollacott as well had he been fit and properly playing for Ghana.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/fifa-distributes-more-than-usd-200m-to-clubs-across-the-world

[Northern Red]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Because he played for us within two years before the world cup. We will receive about 25% of the total payment for Diedhiou. Alyanspor will get the rest. We'd have been given money for Wollacott as well had he been fit and properly playing for Ghana.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/fifa-distributes-more-than-usd-200m-to-clubs-across-the-world

And Joe Morrell if he'd hung about for another couple of months.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Northern Red said:

And Joe Morrell if he'd hung about for another couple of months.

I know right. Shafted out of about £50k. Outrageous.

[Harry]

10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Why Kalas and DaSilva can't stay on majorly reduced terms, wouldn't be against it although Kalas and his availability would need to improve drastically.

No thanks. Let’s move them on and move on 

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It is….but it’s a compromised squad, a squad “developed” out of necessity in the main.  It is not his chosen squad.  That starts to happen in the summer.  So let’s recognise that before we get too carried away!

Of course. I’m not getting carried away. Just saying that pretty much the last of the Ashton overpriced layabouts are now all gone. 

5 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Let’s get that stick ready to beat him with. 
 

The guy up until yesterday has worked pretty much on a shoestring. After the Aug 2023 window I’d agree. 
 

I think you misunderstand. I’m not beating with any stick. Just saying in response the person who said there’s still plenty of Ashton/LJ era to get rid, but no, it’s only 2 more players who are leaving in a couple of months. 
I’m saying it as a positive. We’ve removed all but 2 of the Ashton era players and Nige now has his own players on board. 
 

I’m very happy with the window. The additions of Mehmeti & Cornick is great. They are 2 players I’ve long admired. They’ll add pace and trickery to our wide play and give us another dimension. 
I’m very happy with that. 
 

Just simply saying that all bar Kalas & Dasilva have now departed us from the Ashton debacle. Which is a good thing. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Harry

[beaverface]

To me, with all the departures of players, it now feels like the beginning of Nigel Pearsons reign. Up til now he's had his hands tied massively, and now he finally has that wriggle room start moulding his own squad.

It's not gonna happen straight away this summer, but one would hope that giving him three transfer windows from now on would give us a competitive team to push for the top 6 in a season or two.

Until now, he's been given him the benefit of doubt. From now on is when I think he'll be truly judged.

[cityexile]

2 hours ago, Shuffle said:

I think the one disappointment for me is that throughout this season NP has said he needed a CB but we didn’t get one. I think Pring would play CB if Atkinson out. There’s lots who could do a job out of position but that’s too big a risk for me.  Kalas is covering two positions if we don’t move Naismith & just a personal opinion but is it a risk worth taking. Time will tell I guess but on a positive with new signings we have lots of pace and energy. Where does Weimann fit in is a great problem to have

Fair. I think AS going allowed NP to get on with some signing he would have otherwise had to wait to the summer for, and it’s also clear given those we did not get over the line where his priorities remain. Yes a CB and alongside that some physicality and height.

Football is always about probabilities rather than certainties, so I imagine the thought process yesterday was ‘do we think with what we have we should be confident of staying up, or do we chase these other two harder’. Given it looks like we went the former, then why not wait to the summer?

In terms of the glass being half full, he got two of the four that were targeted in, and now has six months to work with them before next season. Risks of course with not getting the CB in, but  a risk they seem to think is acceptable.

At the very least we are chasing players for defined positions rather than collecting players like Pokémon cards.

 

 

[TonyTonyTony]

For me its almost working miracles to cut wages so much, and effectively be in a similar position on the pitch. I think this is overlooked by so many. It's a real credit to the club we have been able to fall back on the academy players - say what you like about previous leadership but you have to give them credit for planting those seeds.

So what has our wage bill gone from, at its peak, to now? And how much more would getting rid of JD and Kalas save?

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

For me its almost working miracles to cut wages so much, and effectively be in a similar position on the pitch. I think this is overlooked by so many. It's a real credit to the club we have been able to fall back on the academy players - say what you like about previous leadership but you have to give them credit for planting those seeds.

So what has our wage bill gone from, at its peak, to now? And how much more would getting rid of JD and Kalas save?

 

***(Football side wage bill, includes football staff and academy, not just first team players)

I think this season it will have come down a small amount, not too much.

But next season, assuming we don’t go mad this summer I expect it to have come down quite a bit more, we will have lost the wages of:

• Martin
• Dasilva
• Bentley
• Moore
• etc

Should Kalas stay, him and Wells will be on much less too.

Pure guesswork, expect that wage bill to be £20m(ish).

[DaveInSA]

There's way too much optimism on this thread, where's @andy2005 or whatever his name is when you need him (or her or they/them)

Where are we now? Thankfully still in BS3.

Where will we be - also in BS3. 

In terms of the football, I'm not expecting miracles now or in the summer. The turnover in playing staff could go either way on the pitch - they gel quickly and perform well. Or, they don't. We will either be entertained or bored stiff. And we'll either be Pearson in or Pearson out, depending on what happened in the last 2 games.

We're Bristol City. Anything is possible. Except promotion to the premier league.

[WarksRobin]

Presumably we could sign out of contract players? Otherwise we really shafted Martin and Klose by releasing them yesterday

[cidered abroad]

4 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Cardiff too only brought in one player on loan in the entire month.

It has been a really strange month, the likes of Wigan & Rotherham (added by the Barlaser sale) have brought in a lot of players, whereas others haven’t.

Huddersfield have also done a lot of deals, so will be fascinating to see who improves & who doesn’t.

We have played a game more than a few but go into the latter part of the season 7 points clear of the bottom three, with a superior goal difference to everyone down there & on a 7 game unbeaten run.

Following your post, I look at it slightly differently.

Let's remind ourselves that it is a team game with eleven out of twenty two or three starting each game. Change more than two at a time and the "team" has the effect of reducing the efficiency of the team for a period. So bringing in a lot of players at this stage of a season will not always improve the team performance and increase point gathering.

So our recruitment of only two could benefit us much more than others especially as we are already in an improved performance spell and a better points gathering than the previous two months.

Assuming that Scott goes for big money in this summer, I don't expect a large influx but a couple or three who will blend in more easily. A couple may leave as Pearson may see them not being able to keep improving. Thus there could be a surprise or two among the summer departures as new recruits and Academy graduates with a better level of skill take over.

Rome wasn't built in a day and City won't rebuild in one or two seasons unless we get to be extremely fortunate. So 2025 may be a very good year. Hope I last that long.

[Jerseybean]

My overall take is an optimistic one. We are focused on adding hungry, up and coming prospects who our staff can develop and who can come of age together e.g. Atkinson, Sykes, Tanner, Mehmeti plus we have a crop of exciting academy players some already in the first team squad. There is experience too  in the shape of James, Wells, Weimann, Kalas, etc 

As others have said we are getting to the point where NP can really build his team and create the team culture and ethos he aspires to. 

From the outset NP said and we knew it was a long-term task. I think the business (both ins and outs) this window has significantly shifted the momentum towards BCFC getting where NP intends.

The summer will be huge as potentially AS will exit = £££££++++ hopefully rather like Semenyo going that will provide resources to strengthen the team overall and despite inevitably losing our best young players (that’s where we are in the football pecking order) the squad balance, depth and quality will be improved.

In NP and his team I trust.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, DaveInSA said:

There's way too much optimism on this thread, where's @andy2005 or whatever his name is when you need him (or her or they/them)

Where are we now? Thankfully still in BS3.

Where will we be - also in BS3. 

In terms of the football, I'm not expecting miracles now or in the summer. The turnover in playing staff could go either way on the pitch - they gel quickly and perform well. Or, they don't. We will either be entertained or bored stiff. And we'll either be Pearson in or Pearson out, depending on what happened in the last 2 games.

We're Bristol City. Anything is possible. Except promotion to the premier league.........

.......and getting a penalty awarded!

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, WarksRobin said:

Presumably we could sign out of contract players? Otherwise we really shafted Martin and Klose by releasing them yesterday

You can’t just release players unless there is an agreement over the remainder of their contract. 
 

Thus they got some or all of what they got owed by negotiation OR they wanted a termination in order to be a free agent and go to a club that wants them and not have anything to do with City. 
 

Either way they become free agents who can be signed at any time. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 

***(Football side wage bill, includes football staff and academy, not just first team players)

I think this season it will have come down a small amount, not too much.

But next season, assuming we don’t go mad this summer I expect it to have come down quite a bit more, we will have lost the wages of:

• Martin
• Dasilva
• Bentley
• Moore
• etc

Should Kalas stay, him and Wells will be on much less too.

Pure guesswork, expect that wage bill to be £20m(ish).

Any reason you're using the BCFC Ltd wages rather than BCFC Holdings Ltd wages? For FFP the latter is pertinent isn't it?

[Davefevs]

56 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Any reason you're using the BCFC Ltd wages rather than BCFC Holdings Ltd wages? For FFP the latter is pertinent isn't it?

Yes, because we are predominantly talking about the playing wage bill in this discussion (than ffp per se)….and because under new FFP it is likely that it will be players wages being used not turnover / costs / p&l.

You’ll see there is a calculation of percentage of holding company if you want to reverse engineer it?

You know me though, I actually have both!

 

[Red Exile]

My response to the topic title is that it leaves me, personally, feeling much better disposed towards the club. One of the more effective January transfer windows, a clear logic behind the signings and a rationalising of the squad. Looks as though there is a plan. Looking forward to the remainder of the season and more optimistic than I have been for a long time about the future.

[ExiledAjax]

Yeh I saw the % and understood that. I'd been talking from an FFP perspective is all because I'd taken the discussion to be about what/when we could spend in the market.

Wage reduction is greater at BCFC level than Holdings, the difference will obviously be in AG Ltd. So it does show a truer picture of the "football" wage bill.

On the new regs. I'd expect a transitional period whereby they are phased in, so we might see it all being relevant for slightly longer.

[Davefevs]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh I saw the % and understood that. I'd been talking from an FFP perspective is all because I'd taken the discussion to be about what/when we could spend in the market.

Wage reduction is greater at BCFC level than Holdings, the difference will obviously be in AG Ltd. So it does show a truer picture of the "football" wage bill.

On the new regs. I'd expect a transitional period whereby they are phased in, so we might see it all being relevant for slightly longer.

Certainly been talk of phasing in the wages to turnover ratio from 90% to 80% to 70%…yet to see anything that phases out the current £39m stuff.  Part of me would be surprised if there wasn’t some form of phasing out.  But the other part of me says - they know it’s flawed, let’s move straight to the new method, and everything gets brushed under the carpet!

[Red Army 75]

In Nige we trust. 

[cidered abroad]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Cardiff too only brought in one player on loan in the entire month.

It has been a really strange month, the likes of Wigan & Rotherham (added by the Barlaser sale) have brought in a lot of players, whereas others haven’t.

Huddersfield have also done a lot of deals, so will be fascinating to see who improves & who doesn’t.

We have played a game more than a few but go into the latter part of the season 7 points clear of the bottom three, with a superior goal difference to everyone down there & on a 7 game unbeaten run.

Following your post, I look at it slightly differently.

Let's remind ourselves that it is a team game with eleven out of twenty two or three starting each game. Change more than two at a time and the "team" has the effect of reducing the efficiency of the team for a period. So bringing in a lot of players at this stage of a season will not always improve the team performance and increase point gathering.

So our recruitment of only two could benefit us much more than others especially as we are already in an improved performance spell and a better points gathering than the previous two months.

Assuming that Scott goes for big money in this summer, I don't expect a large influx but a couple or three who will blend in more easily. A few may leave as Pearson may see them not being able to keep improving. And to allow Academy players to progress. These who leave, may surprise and or disappoint some fans but that's the reality in any type of work.

At long last, we appear to be a club that is football managed well and with a future.

[cidered abroad]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Cardiff too only brought in one player on loan in the entire month.

It has been a really strange month, the likes of Wigan & Rotherham (added by the Barlaser sale) have brought in a lot of players, whereas others haven’t.

Huddersfield have also done a lot of deals, so will be fascinating to see who improves & who doesn’t.

We have played a game more than a few but go into the latter part of the season 7 points clear of the bottom three, with a superior goal difference to everyone down there & on a 7 game unbeaten run.

Following your post, I look at it slightly differently.

Let's remind ourselves that it is a team game with eleven out of twenty two or three starting each game. Change more than two at a time and the "team" has the effect of reducing the efficiency of the team for a period. So bringing in a lot of players at this stage of a season will not always improve the team performance and increase point gathering.

So our recruitment of only two could benefit us much more than others especially as we are already in an improved performance spell and a better points gathering than the previous two months.

Assuming that Scott goes for big money in this summer, I don't expect a large influx but a couple or three who will blend in more easily. A couple may leave as Pearson may see them not being able to keep improving.

[Davefevs]

Guess the next thing we want to start hearing is contract updates?

Not sure we will hear anything on Kalas until he starts playing.

[ExiledAjax]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Guess the next thing we want to start hearing is contract updates?

Not sure we will hear anything on Kalas until he starts playing.

Who are you looking at primarily?

I'm thinking we will give O'Leary and Vyner new first team contracts. Probably 3 years. Those will be wage increases.

Kalas and Dasilva probably both offered reduced terms, up to them to accept. 

Haikin has to earn his new contract.

Is there anyone else we need to really look at or here from? 

[The Bard]

12 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

On "healthy" finances this season. I suspect that even with the Semenyo income and further wage savings (mainly Bentley and Wells) we're still going to be looking at approximately a £15m loss. Now that's very good coming down from a £28m loss last season, but it's not exactly healthy.

There may therefore be some temptation to sell Scott before the financial year end on 31 May in order to push us into profit this season (assuming he goes for more than £15m).

Surely as FFP is assessed over 3 seasons  it is more tempting to wait for the sale so that it cushions us for longer?  Only way we'd hurry it through would be to ensure we don't break the rules.  

[The Bard]

30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Who are you looking at primarily?

I'm thinking we will give O'Leary and Vyner new first team contracts. Probably 3 years. Those will be wage increases.

Kalas and Dasilva probably both offered reduced terms, up to them to accept. 

Haikin has to earn his new contract.

Is there anyone else we need to really look at or here from? 

Dasilva is leaving as he wasn't offered a contract.   Pearson has also said no decision on Kalas as he hasn't played all season.  I imagine both Vyner and O'Leary have offers but haven't yet signed.  The club can extend their current deals by a year.  If they don't sign I imagine they will be sold in the summer if we get a good offer.  Transfer values are slowly creeping back in, though at more sane levels than before.  Players like those 2 with their experience will command decent fees for certain.  

[Merrick's Marvels]

46 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Who are you looking at primarily?

Nigel Pearson.

Going into the final year of his contract and we can't let the bugger run it down and leave for nowt next summer!

Edited February 1, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Who are you looking at primarily?

I'm thinking we will give O'Leary and Vyner new first team contracts. Probably 3 years. Those will be wage increases.

Kalas and Dasilva probably both offered reduced terms, up to them to accept. 

Haikin has to earn his new contract.

Is there anyone else we need to really look at or here from? 

Those two, the SL mention of Alex Scott too.

Plus starting to think about those beyond w/o an option, e.g. Joe Williams

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Dasilva is leaving as he wasn't offered a contract.   Pearson has also said no decision on Kalas as he hasn't played all season.  I imagine both Vyner and O'Leary have offers but haven't yet signed.  The club can extend their current deals by a year.  If they don't sign I imagine they will be sold in the summer if we get a good offer.  Transfer values are slowly creeping back in, though at more sane levels than before.  Players like those 2 with their experience will command decent fees for certain.  

Is that definite? Why wasn't he offered a contract. I'd say there is still some upside in a technically good LB aged 25 or under If the wages are right for the club.

[steviestevieneville]

9 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Pleased with the new signings but feel we should have focussed more on strengthening at the back, where we've needed to strengthen for some time. Now we haven't even got the option of Klose - and we don't know how long before Kalas will be fit again. 

I really hope there are some good freebies out there that we are looking at. 

We tried to strengthen at the back or weren’t you aware of that . If clubs won’t sell then they won’t sell 

[glynriley]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

We tried to strengthen at the back or weren’t you aware of that . If clubs won’t sell then they won’t sell 

And Kalas is back, been on the bench the last 2 games. 
 

Other than that…

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Who are you looking at primarily?

I'm thinking we will give O'Leary and Vyner new first team contracts. Probably 3 years. Those will be wage increases.

Kalas and Dasilva probably both offered reduced terms, up to them to accept. 

Haikin has to earn his new contract.

Is there anyone else we need to really look at or here from? 

I don’t think max will be here next season . I know Niki coming in has put him in the shop window to try & get a contract for next season somewhere . I don’t know why but I just think nige wants a more commanding keeper , both in the air & with his feet 

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, glynriley said:

And Kalas is back, been on the bench the last 2 games. 
 

Other than that…

Exactly . I’m glad we wouldn’t bow to palace wanting a bigger loan fee (allegedly ) or what ever terms Wimbledon wanted . We obviously have a valuation & if we can’t them then so be it . 

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 01/02/2023 at 08:13, James54De said:

Really? Surely we were not on course for a 22 million pound loss this season?

Maybe was a bit less but not vastly so- £20m perhaps prior to January of course.

On 01/02/2023 at 08:48, Northern Red said:

They obviously didn't think it was essential. We're no longer going to be signing people just for the sake of it and, as mentioned above, the Palace lad was obviously going to be a long term thing whereas anyone coming in on loan from the PL would be expecting to be first choice straight away, with costs to reflect that.

Unless you're Reading of course who seem to have some sort of tieup Chelsea but in general yes it certainly seems to cost and or comes with game time demands. That said presumably even if not the financial aspect, Reading would have the game time demands.

Marina Grankovskaia - Kia Joobrachian - Dai Yongge.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[GrahamC]

16 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

I don’t think max will be here next season . I know Niki coming in has put him in the shop window to try & get a contract for next season somewhere . I don’t know why but I just think nige wants a more commanding keeper , both in the air & with his feet 

I see this slightly differently.

I’d be surprised if both O’Leary and Haikin are here, because that would mean we won’t be bringing in anyone else.

One of them probably will be therefore, but until we have had the opportunity to take a proper look at Haikin I’m not convinced which one that will be.

I have said this for years Max is perfect for us as one of 2 senior keepers, good age, decent experience now, not on stupid money but this might be his big moment, if not then it could pan out as you suggest.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 01/02/2023 at 10:39, ExiledAjax said:

I think we're going to be in the high teens, even with Semenyo's £10m. The basic balance sheet for BCFC Holdings Ltd (the company that reports for FFP purposes) shows our £28.2m loss for last season, and the £38m loss the season before. Wages are listed as "Staff costs" and came down from £35.3m in 2020/21 to £30.3m in 2021/22 (a 14% reduction). Amortisation dropped by about £3.5m (down 23%). Player trading was £6m profit in 2020/21 and £1.2m profit in 2021/22. 

Very rough fag-packet pub sketch of this seasons balance sheet, with assumptions, is as follows. Let's assume the same % reduction for wages and amortisation. That takes the wage bill down to £26m, saving £4.3m. Amortisation comes down to £9m, saving £2.7m (@Davefevs will have a more accurate amortisation forecast). So we can generously give ourselves a further £7m savings. Semenyo's £10m plus the £1-2m spent on Mehmeti and Cornick, means maybe a £8m profit. So our net gain over last season is something like £15m.

Add that to last year's losses and you're looking at a £13m loss for 2022/23.

So yeh, before Semenyo's sale we were probably on course for a low £20m's loss this season.

We might see some extra income somewhere (for example we have about £300k coming from FIFA for Semenyo and Diedhou's time in Qatar), and maybe some other savings here and there, and it's a pretty rough formula just using the same % reductions as last season. But conversely any further free agent signings or payouts for add-ons to Cornick or Mehmeti will change that.

World Cup Fan Village such as it was being deferred this season- usually in the summer- will help. The small Cup runs albeit dunno prize money for the League Cup will help, any half season ticket or membership take up will help- but Cup runs you can't budget for, nice bonus all the same.

We may have got there in slightly different ways but I post Semenyo roughly agree with the £13m pre tax loss. Maybe a bit less.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 01/02/2023 at 10:46, Davefevs said:

It’s the big unknown that isn’t really broken down in the accounts.  Undoubtedly costs incurred by Ashton Gate Ltd and Bristol Sport, charged to Football, but lord knows what else.

Some of it will be academy, community and women's football- a few clubs ironically Derby initially under Mel Morris broke some or all of these down separately in the group accounts. We do not which is fine but we don't.

Obviously cost of staging events, football in this instance, non football would be covered by AGL.

Still doesn't explain it all however, we can extrapolate for some of the areas above but still doesn't square the circle properly.

[Mr Popodopolous]

23 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

For me its almost working miracles to cut wages so much, and effectively be in a similar position on the pitch. I think this is overlooked by so many. It's a real credit to the club we have been able to fall back on the academy players - say what you like about previous leadership but you have to give them credit for planting those seeds.

So what has our wage bill gone from, at its peak, to now? And how much more would getting rid of JD and Kalas save?

Wages, amortisation.

Until Semenyo went no fee for 18 months paid out, no PL loanees for 5 windows and counting.

Not only that but the football is now drastically better than when he joined, some bad days of course but in the main. Far better bang for buck than before and in general terms at home especially in terms of performance plus on the road in terms of at times, resilience we are a lot more competitive than we were on much less cash.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous