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Man City - no, not tickets, but dodgy stuff…as if!!!

Davefevs

By Davefevs
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spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

I think everyone knows.

The truth is that it shows the failings in the current FFP rules. While they were set up with the best intentions to prevent the next Portsmouth (perhaps....) and to have a level playing field, they essentially keep the status quo going unless the likes of manchester city cook the books a little.

Manchester united (whilst always a huge club) were able to over spend in the late 80s early 90s to gain an advantage that they basically held onto for the next 25 ish years - They reap the financial benefit to this day as it coincided with the formation of the premier league. Their dominance was momentarily interrupted by arsenal but only really came under challenge when Chelsea and man city got bought out.

Liverpool overspent in the late 70s/early 80s and did similar, and even the likes of forest were paying a million pound for a player at a time it was unheard of so they could retain the European Cup. 

Some of the clubs that were able to do this before FFP, turned themselves into some of the biggest clubs in the world. I've always thought it a little unfair that they held this historic advantage and think a lot of people feel that it's nice to see other clubs challenging the "elite". Which is probably why no-one apart from their fans particularly holds much ill will against manchester city at the moment.

 

Oh I agree with what you say completely.

Corruption and taking advantage of situations in football has been going on for ages. Since the very start.

I just to try and see the bigger picture...as to what can be done to stop it. Tbh...I don't think there is a definite answer.

Football at the very top has so much influence these days. The people involved...big power hitters. It's pure business and Politics in some cases. You've only got to look at Juve and Milan in Italy to see that in a glaringly obvious way for many years.

It's very much a catch 22. 

We love our football...yet we support the sport knowing it's corrupt.

In the same way we know the Government system is corrupt, and in some cases large businesses corrupt.

Until systems change, and the public refuse to go along with it, it will never change.

It's never ending corruption. 

From a human perspective, I find it very odd that we accept these circumstances, often buy into them, knowing full well it's corrupt, discuss it when it's brought to light ( even though we know it goes on) condemning it...yet celebrate if our team, party or shares come in as winners. 

It's nuts when you think about it.

 

 

 

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dredd said:

Be pretty convenient if they get a points deduction in the season where they aren't running away with the league

Not if it’s means they don’t qualify for Europe. 

It’s crazy nowadays how the top clubs assume European income as part of their financial plans. It would be like us budgeting to get to the 5th round of the Cup every year. 

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, mozo said:

Expulsion would probably precipitate the second push for a 'super league'

Exactly. Can't happen and won't happen. A suitably large fine will be "negotiated" with Man City, maybe a few points if Arsenal carry on their general form and it looks like the league will be a one horse race but not enough to stop them qualifying for the Champions League. Most likely a large fine and a large suspended points deduction (three seasons) but no actual deduction.

Just now, italian dave said:

Not if it’s means they don’t qualify for Europe. 

It’s crazy nowadays how the top clubs assume European income as part of their financial plans. It would be like us budgeting to get to the 5th round of the Cup every year. 

You would have to lop off a heavy number of points to stop them qualifying for Europe because like it or not they will win "most" of their remaining games.

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italian dave

italian dave

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. Can't happen and won't happen. A suitably large fine will be "negotiated" with Man City, maybe a few points if Arsenal carry on their general form and it looks like the league will be a one horse race but not enough to stop them qualifying for the Champions League. Most likely a large fine and a large suspended points deduction (three seasons) but no actual deduction.

You would have to lop off a heavy number of points to stop them qualifying for Europe because like it or not they will win "most" of their remaining games.

The 15 points Juventus have had deducted for false accounting might just about do it? 

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
Just now, italian dave said:

The 15 points Juventus have had deducted for false accounting might just about do it? 

I think you would have to take nearer twenty off them to stop them sneaking in. In some ways you might have stumbled on an answer. Consistent with other decisions made in Europe but they still retain a chance of qualifying for Europe. Still don't think the FA or EPL would have the balls to do it though.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think you would have to take nearer twenty off them to stop them sneaking in. In some ways you might have stumbled on an answer. Consistent with other decisions made in Europe but they still retain a chance of qualifying for Europe. Still don't think the FA or EPL would have the balls to do it though.

UEFA might have their own set of sanctions! ?

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh I agree with what you say completely.

Corruption and taking advantage of situations in football has been going on for ages. Since the very start.

I just to try and see the bigger picture...as to what can be done to stop it. Tbh...I don't think there is a definite answer.

Football at the very top has so much influence these days. The people involved...big power hitters. It's pure business and Politics in some cases. You've only got to look at Juve and Milan in Italy to see that in a glaringly obvious way for many years.

It's very much a catch 22. 

We love our football...yet we support the sport knowing it's corrupt.

In the same way we know the Government system is corrupt, and in some cases large businesses corrupt.

Until systems change, and the public refuse to go along with it, it will never change.

It's never ending corruption. 

From a human perspective, I find it very odd that we accept these circumstances, often buy into them, knowing full well it's corrupt, discuss it when it's brought to light ( even though we know it goes on) condemning it...yet celebrate if our team, party or shares come in as winners. 

It's nuts when you think about it.

 

 

 

It will upset some on here but it would not surprise me one iota if an investigation found a small number of corrupt referees in this country. Whatever your political persuasion, it has nothing to do with that, it is clear the current incumbents that "Govern" this country are full of corrupt ministers and politicians. Nailed on. Probably as many are bent as aren't.

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Bristol Rob

Bristol Rob

Posted
Posted

My expectation is that this will drag on for a few more years, some members of the legal profession will make a mint and Man City will get a fine the owner can easily afford, the 'Premier League brand' will be protected and an already cash rich organisation will have yet more cash to not filter down to grassroots.

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

UEFA might have their own set of sanctions! ?

True, although they would apply whatever the punishment anyway. The EPL know that if they go too far the Owners of Man City will be straight on the phone to the larger Spanish and Italian clubs who are absolutely desperate for a European Super League and some Yank in West London will suddenly ditch his idea for North v South and won't be far behind....................

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spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

It will upset some on here but it would not surprise me one iota if an investigation found a small number of corrupt referees in this country. Whatever your political persuasion, it has nothing to do with that, it is clear the current incumbents that "Govern" this country are full of corrupt ministers and politicians. Nailed on. Probably as many are bent as aren't.

I totally agree. Corruption is everywhere. Some just hide it better than others. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

True, although they would apply whatever the punishment anyway. The EPL know that if they go too far the Owners of Man City will be straight on the phone to the larger Spanish and Italian clubs who are absolutely desperate for a European Super League and some Yank in West London will suddenly ditch his idea for North v South and won't be far behind....................

Cc @Bristol Rob

Serie A had the courage to punish their own biggest club domestically with relegation which they took some time to recover from and have docked them 15 pts so I'd say little excuse for the PL not to punish Man City severely if proven.

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Loco Rojo

Loco Rojo

Posted
Posted

One of the PLs pized assets. I can't see anything too impacting happening to them.  The footballing powers that be will want to protect the cash cow Premier League and vast sums of money it and teams like Man City attract.

Fine at most in my opinon + i bet this will take years to get through the legal process and various challenges and appeals that it'll be old news by the time the slap on the wrist is given.

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Numero Uno

Numero Uno

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Cc @Bristol Rob

Serie A had the courage to punish their own biggest club domestically with relegation which they took some time to recover from and have docked them 15 pts so I'd say little excuse for the PL not to punish Man City severely if proven.

The EPL won't have the balls to do it. Real Madrid and Barca are a phone call away from a Super League but KNOW they need English clubs in there to make it work. If one was handed to them on a silver platter away we go....................... 

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

True, although they would apply whatever the punishment anyway. The EPL know that if they go too far the Owners of Man City will be straight on the phone to the larger Spanish and Italian clubs who are absolutely desperate for a European Super League and some Yank in West London will suddenly ditch his idea for North v South and won't be far behind....................

Bring it on…give us back our domestic game.

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spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It teaches Man City a lesson but then starts a Super League in Europe. For the EPL that's like being a turkey and voting for Christmas.

I personally don't think a super league would ever be successful. 

In the past maybe, but not now.

Yes, sponsorship, media, TV rights etc.

But the supporters of those teams wouldn't want it. The players, although being paid high amounts, would get fed up of the fakeness of it all. And the over riding element that would stop it, would be the Climate/ Green debate.

You can't ask the general public to not drive their car across town, yet have clubs flying from nation to nation for a new super league and ask them to support that. 

Yes we have Champions League and world cup...however I can't see a new format being set up that goes against all the climate debate which is so en vogue right now. 

 

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think a super league would ever be successful. 

In the past maybe, but not now.

Yes, sponsorship, media, TV rights etc.

But the supporters of those teams wouldn't want it. The players, although being paid high amounts, would get fed up of the fakeness of it all. And the over riding element that would stop it, would be the Climate/ Green debate.

You can't ask the general public to not drive their car across town, yet have clubs flying from nation to nation for a new super league and ask them to support that. 

Yes we have Champions League and world cup...however I can't see a new format being set up that goes against all the climate debate which is so en vogue right now. 

 

It would end up like some weird franchise exhibition league. 
Even if it was successful, just let them get on with it and the rest of the league can get on with theirs 

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the1stknowle

the1stknowle

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

See below - it may not be appealable to CAS .

They have an in-house team of about 8 lawyers anyway. Plus they will no doubt hire the same barristers and Freshfields who helped them last time. However, the PL obviously have a little bit of cash to send the lawyers' way as well.

First appeal would be to an "Appeal Board". Rule W.79 says that "Subject to the provisions of Section X of these Rules (Arbitration), the decision of an Appeal Board shall be final.". I've not got time to dig through Section X and through the Arbitration Act 1996 to which it refers, but a skim read shows that they are trying pretty hard to make sure decisions are final and a re not appealable to CAS.

Good lawyers can go a long way - but there is only so much you can do in face of a mountain of evidence. And, as someone said, the Premier League are not without financial resources themselves.

From that charge list, Man City are in very serious trouble. Also appears they might have lied in their representations to CAS that enabled them to escape the most serious punishments in the previous UEFA case. 

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WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted

If these allegations have merit, then this is by orders of magnitude way worse than what Swindon did - and they were demoted two divisions (albeit reduced to one on appeal).

I s’pose though the logic was their dodgy dealings helped them climb the league ladder as they went from Div Four to One (or would’ve) in something like five years.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think a super league would ever be successful. 

In the past maybe, but not now.

Yes, sponsorship, media, TV rights etc.

But the supporters of those teams wouldn't want it. The players, although being paid high amounts, would get fed up of the fakeness of it all. And the over riding element that would stop it, would be the Climate/ Green debate.

You can't ask the general public to not drive their car across town, yet have clubs flying from nation to nation for a new super league and ask them to support that. 

Yes we have Champions League and world cup...however I can't see a new format being set up that goes against all the climate debate which is so en vogue right now. 

 

I know we're going off on a tangent that might be annoying, but...  I think it would work. There would be fan protests at every club which eventually would die out and the glitz, glamour and wealth of the new format would bring all the best players and a new global audience. 

I was extremely heartened by the humiliating u-turn from the scab clubs last time, but if one or two of the English clubs were backed in a corner, and had that narrative to justify the move, it might just work a second time round.

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the1stknowle

the1stknowle

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The EPL won't have the balls to do it. Real Madrid and Barca are a phone call away from a Super League but KNOW they need English clubs in there to make it work. If one was handed to them on a silver platter away we go....................... 

Not sure about this take. I think more likely, if Man City did that, they would take zero proper fans with them and there would be yet another Manchester phoenix club.

The super league needs English clubs because they bring English fans and the people that came up with the idea seem to have absolutely no understanding of what English fans want and the centrality of the pyramid. If it were as simple as you make out, BT Sport would be some money making machine the second they got the UCL rights. Not exactly worked out like that. 

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Keep the Faith

Keep the Faith

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh I agree with what you say completely.

Corruption and taking advantage of situations in football has been going on for ages. Since the very start.

I just to try and see the bigger picture...as to what can be done to stop it. Tbh...I don't think there is a definite answer.

Football at the very top has so much influence these days. The people involved...big power hitters. It's pure business and Politics in some cases. You've only got to look at Juve and Milan in Italy to see that in a glaringly obvious way for many years.

It's very much a catch 22. 

We love our football...yet we support the sport knowing it's corrupt.

In the same way we know the Government system is corrupt, and in some cases large businesses corrupt.

Until systems change, and the public refuse to go along with it, it will never change.

It's never ending corruption. 

From a human perspective, I find it very odd that we accept these circumstances, often buy into them, knowing full well it's corrupt, discuss it when it's brought to light ( even though we know it goes on) condemning it...yet celebrate if our team, party or shares come in as winners. 

It's nuts when you think about it.

 

 

 

There’s usually something similar in any sport where you have to turn a blind eye to something to allow you to enjoy it at the highest level at least.

I love watching professional cycling. I know the history of the sport wi the regard to doping. I’m sure there are athletes doping and/or manipulating the rules to their advantage but I still love to watch it and just have to not think about it otherwise the joy goes. Same goes here in football.

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the1stknowle

the1stknowle

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

If these allegations have merit, then this is by orders of magnitude way worse than what Swindon did - and they were demoted two divisions (albeit reduced to one on appeal).

I s’pose though the logic was their dodgy dealings helped them climb the league ladder as they went from Div Four to One (or would’ve) in something like five years.

I don't think its even in question - at least it shouldn't be - that if these charges are stood up then, in among fines and bans and title strippings, there will be at least one relegation, possibly more. 

Odds on Haaland being first person ever to score 100 goals in a League Two season?

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WessexPest

WessexPest

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, the1stknowle said:

I don't think its even in question - at least it shouldn't be - that if these charges are stood up then, in among fines and bans and title strippings, there will be at least one relegation, possibly more. 

Odds on Haaland being first person ever to score 100 goals in a League Two season?

They better not get relegated to League One - I couldn’t bloody stomach GasGoMarchingIn predicting the 25,000 fans the Gash will take to the Etihad…

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spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Keep the Faith said:

There’s usually something similar in any sport where you have to turn a blind eye to something to allow you to enjoy it at the highest level at least.

I love watching professional cycling. I know the history of the sport wi the regard to doping. I’m sure there are athletes doping and/or manipulating the rules to their advantage but I still love to watch it and just have to not think about it otherwise the joy goes. Same goes here in football.

You are right...there's an argument for letting anything go.

For everyone that's caught, I'm sure there are many that aren't. So for those competing clean it's a lose, lose situation.

The same with footy...I'd personally get rid of transfer windows and FFP. Invest as much as you want. There's enough idiots out there to fund it 

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22A

22A

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, the1stknowle said:

 that if these charges are stood up then, in among fines and bans and title strippings, there will be at least one relegation, possibly more. 

 

2012 a precedent was set; albeit in Scotland. On 1 June 2012, after four months in administration, a failure to reach a CVA agreement with creditors led to The Rangers Football Club plc (since renamed RFC 2012 plc)[ entering the process of liquidation. The administrators completed a sale of the business and assets to a new company, Sevco Scotland Ltd (which later renamed itself The Rangers Football Club Ltd), though most first-team players refused to transfer across. The new company failed to secure the transfer of Rangers' previous place in the Scottish Premier League, but were later accepted into the Scottish Football League. Rangers were awarded associate membership and placed in the lowest division, the Third, rather than the First Division as the SPL and SFA had sought. The transfer of Rangers' SFA membership was agreed by the SFA upon acceptance of a number of conditions, including a one-year transfer ban, in time for the club to begin the 2012–13 season.

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ExiledAjax

ExiledAjax

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15 minutes ago, 22A said:

2012 a precedent was set; albeit in Scotland. On 1 June 2012, after four months in administration, a failure to reach a CVA agreement with creditors led to The Rangers Football Club plc (since renamed RFC 2012 plc)[ entering the process of liquidation. The administrators completed a sale of the business and assets to a new company, Sevco Scotland Ltd (which later renamed itself The Rangers Football Club Ltd), though most first-team players refused to transfer across. The new company failed to secure the transfer of Rangers' previous place in the Scottish Premier League, but were later accepted into the Scottish Football League. Rangers were awarded associate membership and placed in the lowest division, the Third, rather than the First Division as the SPL and SFA had sought. The transfer of Rangers' SFA membership was agreed by the SFA upon acceptance of a number of conditions, including a one-year transfer ban, in time for the club to begin the 2012–13 season.

Is that a precedent though? Different facts, different regulations and rules, different jurisdiction, Scotland even has a different legal system beyond the particular regs of the SPL/PL. I might be wrong but I'd be very surprised if the Rangers decision or sanctions are binding or even persuasive precedent for the Commission to consider. PL lawyers might refer to it if they dare to suggest possible sanctions to the Commission, but probably only in passing.

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The Bard

The Bard

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, spudski said:

I personally don't think a super league would ever be successful. 

In the past maybe, but not now.

Yes, sponsorship, media, TV rights etc.

But the supporters of those teams wouldn't want it. The players, although being paid high amounts, would get fed up of the fakeness of it all. And the over riding element that would stop it, would be the Climate/ Green debate.

You can't ask the general public to not drive their car across town, yet have clubs flying from nation to nation for a new super league and ask them to support that. 

Yes we have Champions League and world cup...however I can't see a new format being set up that goes against all the climate debate which is so en vogue right now. 

 

The players would not get fed up with the fakeness of it all.  They're happy to play in the fake 'Champions League' aren't they?  At least calling it Super league is more factual.  It will probably be super.  It currently only has about a 3rd of its entrants who can claim to be Champions.

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Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The players would not get fed up with the fakeness of it all.  They're happy to play in the fake 'Champions League' aren't they?  At least calling it Super league is more factual.  It will probably be super.  It currently only has about a 3rd of its entrants who can claim to be Champions.

And there are an awful lot of genuine champions of their country that don`t get anywhere near it.

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spudski

spudski

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Bard said:

The players would not get fed up with the fakeness of it all.  They're happy to play in the fake 'Champions League' aren't they?  At least calling it Super league is more factual.  It will probably be super.  It currently only has about a 3rd of its entrants who can claim to be Champions.

Yes...happy to play Champions League, but then they go back to real football.

Super league would divide opinion... it'll be like the LIV tour in golf. 

Fans also want to support home and away. 

Flight prices, hotel prices would all go up on match day. 

It's not sustainable imo

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The Bard

The Bard

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yes...happy to play Champions League, but then they go back to real football.

Super league would divide opinion... it'll be like the LIV tour in golf. 

Fans also want to support home and away. 

Flight prices, hotel prices would all go up on match day. 

It's not sustainable imo

Why don't they just cut the pretence and just insist that the names of teams reflect who owns them?

Abu Dhabi City and Tampa Bay United?

AFC mate of Putin.  Leveraged to the max FC.  Pension Fund Rangers.   Shadowy Chinese Albion.  Powerful Agent Wanderers.

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

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33 minutes ago, The Bard said:

The players would not get fed up with the fakeness of it all.  They're happy to play in the fake 'Champions League' aren't they?  At least calling it Super league is more factual.  It will probably be super.  It currently only has about a 3rd of its entrants who can claim to be Champions.

but they play in their domestic leagues too?

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Marina's Rolls Royce

Marina's Rolls Royce

Posted
Posted

Hopefully Man City will be charged with spunking £100 million on Jack Grealish.

If that isn't a crime against all known rules of logic and decency in football then I dont know what is. 

It makes MA's previous suggestion that permanently signing Diony could be the biggest transfer fee in BCFC history look entirely sensible.

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, cityal said:

That fan was totally channelling his inner Derby fan - Simon Jordan made him look stupid,

I liked the bit where he commented about Chelsea having paid out £160m in compensation for sacked managers ( all of which would be as per the managers' contracts) and all of which would have been properly disclosed in Chelsea's accounts, and them somehow used that as justification for Man City paying Mancini a "hidden" salary through another club owned by Emirates - a modern day equivalent of Arry's brown envelopes!

At the risk of mixing metaphors ( I think it is) while Man City are currently innocent until proven innocent, following their run in with UEFA, which they took to CAS, and the Der Spiegel leaks that caused the UEFA investigation and that almost certainly triggered that of the FA, it does increasingly appear that there is no smoke without fire.

It's interesting to see that Man City are playing the victims, in that there is some sort of vendetta against them and that other premier league clubs have it in for them. In that respect it resonates with everything coming out of Derby County as there financial case unfolded.

 

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Not sure if it is on here already, but there some allegedly interesting alleged emails allegedly from someone in Man City circulating.

If rrealthey have a real problem.

Are those the ones that were originally obtained by  football leaks and sent to Der Spiegel to form the basis of their revelatory article that prompted UEFA's investigation?

If it is then it will be interesting to see how it plays out legally. With UEFA's case, my simple understanding is that Man City were not exonerated, but escaped a ban from European competition only because of time limitation on documents used as evidence. However I'm not sure if this was email evidence.

If it was, then the FA have no such time limitation on documents used in evidence.

As regards the trail of emails, does anyone expect there to be any trace of them on Man City's computers, which I wouldn't be surprised have all been replaced and upgraded over the last few years!

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Hxj

Hxj

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Posted
29 minutes ago, downendcity said:

As regards the trail of emails, does anyone expect there to be any trace of them on Man City's computers, which I wouldn't be surprised have all been replaced and upgraded over the last few years!

I do - webmail/server backups/'insurance emails' etc etc - currently discussing cleansing stuff going back 20 years for my employers and everyone in the organisation wants to keep everything!

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Are those the ones that were originally obtained by  football leaks and sent to Der Spiegel to form the basis of their revelatory article that prompted UEFA's investigation?

If it is then it will be interesting to see how it plays out legally. With UEFA's case, my simple understanding is that Man City were not exonerated, but escaped a ban from European competition only because of time limitation on documents used as evidence. However I'm not sure if this was email evidence.

If it was, then the FA have no such time limitation on documents used in evidence.

As regards the trail of emails, does anyone expect there to be any trace of them on Man City's computers, which I wouldn't be surprised have all been replaced and upgraded over the last few years!

Just come across a video on YouTube featuring Kieran McGuire discussing Man City's situation.

He made a couple of interesting points comparing the FA and UEFA cases.

UEFA'S rules contain a statute of limitations, which meant that because Man City delayed proceedings for so long, certain documents were time expired and could not be used in evidence.

The FA rules do not have a statute of limitation.

In the UEFA case Man City were able to argue that because the emails were hacked they had been obtained illegally so could not be used in evidence.

KM explained that the FA are working with a blank page, so they can allow the hacked emails/documents in evidence.

That might make things a bit more "interesting".

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exAtyeoMax

exAtyeoMax

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Just come across a video on YouTube featuring Kieran McGuire discussing Man City's situation.

He made a couple of interesting points comparing the FA and UEFA cases.

UEFA'S rules contain a statute of limitations, which meant that because Man City delayed proceedings for so long, certain documents were time expired and could not be used in evidence.

The FA rules do not have a statute of limitation.

In the UEFA case Man City were able to argue that because the emails were hacked they had been obtained illegally so could not be used in evidence.

KM explained that the FA are working with a blank page, so they can allow the hacked emails/documents in evidence.

That might make things a bit more "interesting".

 

 

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chinapig

chinapig

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8 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Just come across a video on YouTube featuring Kieran McGuire discussing Man City's situation.

He made a couple of interesting points comparing the FA and UEFA cases.

UEFA'S rules contain a statute of limitations, which meant that because Man City delayed proceedings for so long, certain documents were time expired and could not be used in evidence.

The FA rules do not have a statute of limitation.

In the UEFA case Man City were able to argue that because the emails were hacked they had been obtained illegally so could not be used in evidence.

KM explained that the FA are working with a blank page, so they can allow the hacked emails/documents in evidence.

That might make things a bit more "interesting".

Plus, iirc CAS found one charge to be time barred and another not established (much like the not proven verdict available in Scottish law). Not quite not guilty then.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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8 hours ago, downendcity said:

I liked the bit where he commented about Chelsea having paid out £160m in compensation for sacked managers ( all of which would be as per the managers' contracts) and all of which would have been properly disclosed in Chelsea's accounts, and them somehow used that as justification for Man City paying Mancini a "hidden" salary through another club owned by Emirates - a modern day equivalent of Arry's brown envelopes!

At the risk of mixing metaphors ( I think it is) while Man City are currently innocent until proven innocent, following their run in with UEFA, which they took to CAS, and the Der Spiegel leaks that caused the UEFA investigation and that almost certainly triggered that of the FA, it does increasingly appear that there is no smoke without fire.

It's interesting to see that Man City are playing the victims, in that there is some sort of vendetta against them and that other premier league clubs have it in for them. In that respect it resonates with everything coming out of Derby County as there financial case unfolded.

 

It does smack a lot of Derby albeit far bigger and for far longer if proven but it has some similar ingredients. 

Some are arguing that if made to restate accounts it would constitute an accusation of fraud but Derby were made to restate without punishment for the auditors (as far as any of us know) so club punished over account doesn't necessarily lead to consequences for the auditors in q.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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An important test might be, based on the Image rights claims and I assume potential for excessively valued RPTs, does the excess in amount paid above fair value affect the FFP numbers and by how much? Talking the 3 year P&S regs.

Quite hard to fail these the, £105m which I believe is added to the youth, community etc over 3 years. UEFA at €30m is much tighter margins.

In simple terms, £105m adjusted loss allowed and club makes a 3 year aggregated pre tax profit of £25m. Then they have £15m per season in allowable costs thst is a surplus of £175m.

In simple terms...

T-2. Profit pre tax £10m and £15m Allowable costs.

T-1. Profit pre tax £5m and £15m Allowable costs.

T. Profit pre tax £9m and £15m Allowable costs.

Therefore the League would need to see a combination of costs hidden and inflated revenue of £175m in that 3 year period...for UEFA that is £25.42m as per a stated exchange rates of £1/€1.18. £95.42m.

In other words it is possible that costs and revenue overstated but not by enough to tip Man City into an FFP overspend at PL level- UEFA might differ.

Suppose the simple example would be if some commercial revenue was £100m per year but the Fair Value was an aggregated £40m per year. Suddenly a £5m FFP 3 year overspend.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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