Where are all the doubters now??

[BUTOR]

6 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Performances have not changed. Results have. 

You are interested in results. 

That's fine, but don't make out we haven't deserved more from a lot of games this season. 

We performed like this in the draws against Millwall and Cov. Playing 352. 

We dominated Watford playing 352. 

We had a bad day against WBA. Yeah. We'll have bad days playing 433. That's football. It will forever be so. 

I don’t get the partisan nature of posts like this and the lack of respect for a well crafted opinion. Simply pointing to ‘performances’ is just as easy as pointing to results. Many teams have had poor seasons and have been relegated with a whole bunch of good performances. It’s always more nuanced than that. There were long-stay problems that were persisting and had been there from the day he walked in, an inability to hold onto leads, consistently poor substitutions, strange positional choices, one dimensional football and a lack of tactical impact during games. All culminating in a downward trend which saw fractured relationships between manager and fans.

It’s not just the formation that has changed, going on what is available to us it seems NP’s approach has too. Far more positive, a forward looking persona focused on installing confidence in players, and (less importantly) much more sincere and thankful when speaking about the fans. He is sure of himself, certainly, but he has clearly taken criticism on board too and that is an incredibly commendable trait from such an experienced individual. Pearson is extremely aware of what is said despite the fact he may present otherwise. 

We seem to have turned a corner which is fantastic, but why is there such intolerance to the fact that there were differing opinions to yours during a period that saw us drop closer to the relegation zone than we’d been in Pearson’s entire tenure?

There are always differing opinions on managers, that’s football and it will forever be so. I’m just glad it’s coming together.

 

 

 

[JoeAman08]

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

JoeAman, I have always appreciated your comments as I come from an era when apart from what was in the newspapers, we could only discuss what we had seen live at matches. And without slow motion replays.

I suspect that you are like me in that I've gone during this season, from total appreciation to complete negativity and back again. I know not your age but I've seen eight promotions and seven relegations since 1950;and for a couple of months late last year, I seriously considered that we were destined for another drop.

Yet now, after some clearly superb work by Gould, Pearson and Tinnion and the coaches, in the last few months, the win today over a half tidy Norwich team, has given us all, hope for a good future. I go from optimist to pessimist and suspect you may be similar.

It's our club for life. One day we might click as other Third and lower Second Division sides like Bournemouth and Brighton have keep the faith.

Oh don’t get me wrong I am delighted we won and have seemed to turn a corner. I just have an opinion on NP and this run of form hasn’t convinced me this will be the norm going forward. Whether or not I am right or wrong doesn’t matter to me.  Said earlier it has been a lot of fun going to AG the last few weeks and long may it continue. 

[E.G.Red]

3 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I don’t get the partisan nature of posts like this and the lack of respect for a well crafted opinion. Simply pointing to ‘performances’ is just as easy as pointing to results. Many teams have had poor seasons and have been relegated with a whole bunch of good performances. It’s always more nuanced than that. There were long-stay problems that were persisting and had been there from the day he walked in, an inability to hold onto leads, consistently poor substitutions, strange positional choices, one dimensional football and a lack of tactical impact during games. All culminating in a downward trend which saw fractured relationships between manager and fans.

It’s not just the formation that has changed, going on what is available to us it seems NP’s approach has too. Far more positive, a forward looking persona focused on installing confidence in players, and (less importantly) much more sincere and thankful when speaking about the fans. He is sure of himself, certainly, but he has clearly taken criticism on board too and that is an incredibly commendable trait from such an experienced individual. Pearson is extremely aware of what is said despite the fact he may present otherwise. 

We seem to have turned a corner which is fantastic, but why is there such intolerance to the fact that there were differing opinions to yours during a period that saw us drop closer to the relegation zone than we’d been in Pearson’s entire tenure?

There are always differing opinions on managers, that’s football and it will forever be so. I’m just glad it’s coming together.

 

 

 

I think it's no longer a case of them and us but as you say a whole coming together. The fans the team the staff are all playing their part. Long may it continue. 

[Kid in the Riot]

42 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

We performed like this in the draws against Millwall and Cov. Playing 352.

Proof, that you evidently don't watch all our games. Performances these last 4 weeks have been miles better than the dross served up in those games. An upturn in performance and results (sorry if you don't feel the latter is important, or significant) that coincided with a switch in formation from the second half of the Swansea home cup game onwards. 

[lenred]

Edit 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by lenred

[Robbored]

The bottom line is that football fans are a fickle bunch. Their dedication wavers depending on results and exactly why we saw so many criticising Nige when he was struggling to sort out the shambles left by LJ and Ashton.

Some of us appreciated that and also that he has a three year project in which time he’d be able to build a team capable of becoming a serious threat in the Championship with a mix of youth and experienced players.

Now in just 18 months he has changed the entire culture which was essential to enable the playing squad to feel ‘at home’ within the new healthy club culture.

I’ve said it before but Nige really is a proper manager. Head an shoulders above all the previous managers in the last 30 years.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Robbored

[bpexile]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Maybe. I don’t really see it that way. Is Pring really that much better in January than he was in October? Atkinson had a great start to the season got dropped and come back at same level. Vyner has shown when he gets a good run in one position he can perform. Finally playing Wells has helped us massively too. 
 

I am not sitting here trying to be overly negative. Just that one month of results hasn’t swayed me that he is all of a sudden a genius. 

Slot players into positions they have played growing up and during their careers? I have always acknowledged the culture shift under NP. It has always been on a match day that I don’t rate him. I just don’t think there is a way to measure it and I don’t measure as high. Imo the tools have been here to be more consistent in performances. The culture change had been in place for months so why all of a sudden have performances changed? It is putting the right people in the right positions and them gaining confidence. Something that could have been done 15 games ago

I agree with a lot of what you say but I always think of what my dad used to tell me. He said having all the tools doesn't make you a tradesman & I think there's been a lot of learning on both sides (players & management) to get to where players with the "tools" now have the mentality to maintain the level NP requires. He now can play/trust them in positions to best utilise those skills, at the end of the day we/the club are the winners.

Credit must be given to all involved & I think a huge plus has been the hpc where the academy players can train with the team.

COYR's

 

[2015]

2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Performances have not changed. Results have. 

You are interested in results. 

That's fine, but don't make out we haven't deserved more from a lot of games this season. 

We performed like this in the draws against Millwall and Cov. Playing 352. 

We dominated Watford playing 352. 

We had a bad day against WBA. Yeah. We'll have bad days playing 433. That's football. It will forever be so. 

Absolutely spot on. Can only think of a few 'bad' performances this season. Reading A, Birmingham A, WBA H. Said it even in December, the side haven't been far away all season!

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

If you don’t think performances are better post 352 I don’t think we can have a serious conversation

For example - Performance last week at Preston was not better than several games this season where we’ve failed to get 3 points.

Even today was pretty scrappy for large chunks.  We had a good spell of control in the first half after we scored for 10-15 mins.  Norwich then opened the second half and put us under a lot of pressure.  We then had a spell where we knocked on the door once the subs got themselves into it.  There was a helluva lot of ball being turned over by both sides because spaces were condensed or passing lanes blocked by good structures, therefore teams trying to force it.

Too much emphasis on the result framing the argument of how well we played.

All the talk of fans saying they want the old cliched “free flowing, front foot football and a high press”, “I just want to see attacking football and be entertained”…it’s bollox in the main…the reality is they just want to win and they really like a gritty win.  Which is what today was.  I really enjoyed the game.  Not because we played great football (we did play some at times) but more because we worked our nuts off collectively, and we made it hard for Norwich, who are a decent side.

Today felt like for me the culmination of a lot of hard work in the development of the team…nor is that development over.  There may be several of the same players as earlier this season or last, but they are gradually performing better and better in technical, mental and physical areas.  

I really do disagree with the saying - insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  In football surely you have to repeat things to get better?  Those stupid little drills with no defenders where someone crosses for our forwards to side foot past the exposed keeper from 8 yards look to benefit nobody, they’re so unlike a real game…yet count the number of goals we’ve scored since the World Cup from those types of cross?

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, italian dave said:

Oh, no. Here we go again. Can’t we give it a rest? Ancient history now.

It’s not ancient history though is it! We still have players on those eye watering wages and we have to sell players to mitigate that!
 

it’s current history. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by REDOXO

[JoeAman08]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For example - Performance last week at Preston was not better than several games this season where we’ve failed to get 3 points.

Even today was pretty scrappy for large chunks.  We had a good spell of control in the first half after we scored for 10-15 mins.  Norwich then opened the second half and put us under a lot of pressure.  We then had a spell where we knocked on the door once the subs got themselves into it.  There was a helluva lot of ball being turned over by both sides because spaces were condensed or passing lanes blocked by good structures, therefore teams trying to force it.

Too much emphasis on the result framing the argument of how well we played.

All the talk of fans saying they want the old cliched “free flowing, front foot football and a high press”, “I just want to see attacking football and be entertained”…it’s bollox in the main…the reality is they just want to win and they really like a gritty win.  Which is what today was.  I really enjoyed the game.  Not because we played great football (we did play some at times) but more because we worked our nuts off collectively, and we made it hard for Norwich, who are a decent side.

Today felt like for me the culmination of a lot of hard work in the development of the team…nor is that development over.  There may be several of the same players as earlier this season or last, but they are gradually performing better and better in technical, mental and physical areas.  

I really do disagree with the saying - insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  In football surely you have to repeat things to get better?  Those stupid little drills with no defenders where someone crosses for our forwards to side foot past the exposed keeper from 8 yards look to benefit nobody, they’re so unlike a real game…yet count the number of goals we’ve scored since the World Cup from those types of cross?

As someone else said, you can look at the stats and perhaps make the case performances are the same. As someone who is at damn near every game, you can feel the change. The fullbacks higher up the pitch than the wingbacks ever were. The front 3 all pressing in unison. The intensity is much higher and generally everyone looks very comfortable in their roles. Every has a job, knows their job and executes it. 
 

You can feel the difference in the atmosphere. It isn’t a results thing. It started with Swansea in the cup. No we may not have possession or loads of shots. The intent and endeavour is now there and it wasn’t early in the season. There are no stats that can quantify it but I guarantee you ask 1000 city fans if it has been more enjoyable since Swansea in the cup, 1000 would say yes.

It isn’t results that get me going. It is intensity and intent. Today was scrappy at times but Norwich looked up for it. We made it scrappy by being aggressive. We didn’t let them get comfortable which has been a theme. Thats the difference I am on about and that came with a switch to 433. 

[JoeAman08]

3 hours ago, bpexile said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but I always think of what my dad used to tell me. He said having all the tools doesn't make you a tradesman & I think there's been a lot of learning on both sides (players & management) to get to where players with the "tools" now have the mentality to maintain the level NP requires. He now can play/trust them in positions to best utilise those skills, at the end of the day we/the club are the winners.

Credit must be given to all involved & I think a huge plus has been the hpc where the academy players can train with the team.

COYR's

 

My posts can seem very NP critical and I am. However it doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve some credit. If you tell me we have a fitter squad I’d agree. Credit to NP. Tell me we have more squad harmony and healthy competition for places I’d agree. Credit to NP.
 

Imo he was getting it very wrong with his persistence in the 352 and some of his personnel decisions. On the pitch is where he should be judged harsher. A few wins and losses either way in this league can really change how you look at yourself but we were in danger of slipping down. The way we were playing there should have been hard questions being asked and there were for a bit. 
 

Again, maybe I am ultimately wrong about NP. Hell I hope so. As you said we/the club are winners. I am enjoying the run and hope it continues. I’d rather enjoy the football and say I was wrong than saying I was right and being in L1. 

[Son of Fred]

8 hours ago, gl2 said:

Another one just here who wanted NP gone, I now bow my head and say I WAS WRONG 

Don't be - a few dodgy weeks & you'll be back

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

My posts can seem very NP critical and I am. However it doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve some credit. If you tell me we have a fitter squad I’d agree. Credit to NP. Tell me we have more squad harmony and healthy competition for places I’d agree. Credit to NP.
 

Imo he was getting it very wrong with his persistence in the 352 and some of his personnel decisions. On the pitch is where he should be judged harsher. A few wins and losses either way in this league can really change how you look at yourself but we were in danger of slipping down. The way we were playing there should have been hard questions being asked and there were for a bit. 
 

Again, maybe I am ultimately wrong about NP. Hell I hope so. As you said we/the club are winners. I am enjoying the run and hope it continues. I’d rather enjoy the football and say I was wrong than saying I was right and being in L1. 

Pathetic ..

[robinforlife2]

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a doubter. I get people can understand the bigger picture and the long term scale of things, and with that, maybe they are more accepting. But if a manager and any manger for that matter, didn't have any doubts when they had one of the poorest strike rates of managers in recent times, then the question should be, when is there time to doubt?

Am I pleased it has been turned around, absolutely. It is very much his team now, and whilst he may not have been able to bring in some luxury additions he would like, the additions are his additions. 

I don't care what anyone says, but in life performances don't breed confidence, results do, and the difference is, that on Boxing Day, we were being treated to the odd performance but there was no result, we had players out of position, and we seemed incapable of putting two results together. One might say, that some fans getting on Nige's back, and as a result probably people at the club as well, he had to try something new, and realised now was the time to put up, or be put out.

January and early February, has been a breath of fresh air, we have gone from unable to win despite playing well, to being able to win, or draw even if we don't. Confidence breeds confidence and confidence often leads to results. As present we are getting the results even when we are not impressive, and a lot of that will come down to confidence. 

The team is finally progressing in the right way on the pitch under Pearson, and that is all that those who were voicing concern wanted to see. Whether it's a change of playing staff, change of formation, playing players in the right position, or a combination of all those factors, the facts are, if anything we are starting to do a little too well. and this is when sometimes expectation becomes unrealistic.

What the current run does do, is takes us well away from the relegation zone. An area we needed to avoid this season, and all most fans wanted. Survival was key, nothing else this season mattered. On Boxing Day a number of fans, myself included were worried we were a little too close for comfort to the relegation zone. 

The issue I now have, is we are 7pts off the playoff zone, with a game in hand on 6th, and 6pts off 7th on level games. With Preston, Norwich and Blackburn all appearing to falter at present, it is not impossible that if we continue this forward momentum, that in 4/5 games time, we could be sat in the top 10. This would far surpass anything expected of the team this season by any fan, but it could set it up for a very tense final ten games, in which there is definitely a 6th spot up for grabs. The top 5, remain consistent and performing very well, and we don't have to face any of them in our next 6 fixtures and this could be a blessing. Realistically in our next 6 fixtures, we only have Sunderland who pose a serious danger to us, and it is likely we can get a result (win or draw) from the other five.

The playoffs with our final 6 games containing Burnley, Sheffield United, Watford and Middlesbrough may be a step too far, but I would not be surprised if approaching those last 6 games that we weren't within hailing distance of the top six.

The season has taken a surprising, but delightful twist, and its nice to be looking up, rather than down. If we finish where we are now, I would personally be happy, but we must not get carried away with ourselves and think that the closer to the top six we get, that expectation rises. It would be bad come 7th or 8th and fans feeling disappointed to just miss out. 

I am pleased Nige has turned it around. On paper he was always a very good appointment for us, I among many others at Xmas questioned if he was getting the best from the squad and whether he might take us down, but I am pleased it has been turned around.

What this last month has shown us though, is that next season with the purse strings loosened a little, and possibly the incoming funds should Scott be sold, that it would not be wrong to expect us to be competitive next season. 

It could also be said that bar 3/4 teams, this years Championship has been wide open, and actually grabbing the most unlikeliest of 6th places, and maybe landing the most unlikeliest of promotions given where we were at Xmas, might be our best opportunity in some time, and could also lead to us keeping hold of some of the stars ideally we don't want to lose just yet.

Personally, I think as fans we can enjoy the rest of the season, taking each game at a time. It's pleasing to see the change, and credit to Nige and his staff in turning it around. 

As said, if we end up 13th, then Nige has surpassed my hopes and expectations for this season. I personally feel it is a little too early to dare to dream, but in 6 games time, that 6th spot might not actually look that unrealistic, but our final 6 games is as tough a run in as we could have asked for, and that should not be ignored.

Well done Nige and the team for turning it around. 

[robinforlife2]

28 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Pathetic ..

I don't see what is pathetic about what he wrote at all, if I am honest. I would say a one worded answer with no structure or reasoning, is actually more pathetic. 

[And Its Smith]

I’m surprised that some are saying the performances haven’t improved since the home FA cup game against Swansea.   The results have dramatically improved but quite clearly the performances have improved as well. Maybe not as dramatically as the results but there is a pretty clear improvement.  @Percy Pig @Davefevs you must surely see that defensively we are a fair bit stronger.  Fewer individual errors, better structure. Offensively we look more dangerous with width higher up the field.  More solid in midfield as well.  The better defensive platform in the last 5-6 games is a big step forward. I just can’t see how the performances have not improved at all. 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by And Its Smith

[Son of Fred]

10 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I don't see what is pathetic about what he wrote at all, if I am honest. I would say a one worded answer with no structure or reasoning, is actually more pathetic. 

I think he would be off of Nigel's bus - as would you

[cidered abroad]

32 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a doubter. I get people can understand the bigger picture and the long term scale of things, and with that, maybe they are more accepting. But if a manager and any manger for that matter, didn't have any doubts when they had one of the poorest strike rates of managers in recent times, then the question should be, when is there time to doubt?

Am I pleased it has been turned around, absolutely. It is very much his team now, and whilst he may not have been able to bring in some luxury additions he would like, the additions are his additions. 

I don't care what anyone says, but in life performances don't breed confidence, results do, and the difference is, that on Boxing Day, we were being treated to the odd performance but there was no result, we had players out of position, and we seemed incapable of putting two results together. One might say, that some fans getting on Nige's back, and as a result probably people at the club as well, he had to try something new, and realised now was the time to put up, or be put out.

January and early February, has been a breath of fresh air, we have gone from unable to win despite playing well, to being able to win, or draw even if we don't. Confidence breeds confidence and confidence often leads to results. As present we are getting the results even when we are not impressive, and a lot of that will come down to confidence. 

The team is finally progressing in the right way on the pitch under Pearson, and that is all that those who were voicing concern wanted to see. Whether it's a change of playing staff, change of formation, playing players in the right position, or a combination of all those factors, the facts are, if anything we are starting to do a little too well. and this is when sometimes expectation becomes unrealistic.

What the current run does do, is takes us well away from the relegation zone. An area we needed to avoid this season, and all most fans wanted. Survival was key, nothing else this season mattered. On Boxing Day a number of fans, myself included were worried we were a little too close for comfort to the relegation zone. 

The issue I now have, is we are 7pts off the playoff zone, with a game in hand on 6th, and 6pts off 7th on level games. With Preston, Norwich and Blackburn all appearing to falter at present, it is not impossible that if we continue this forward momentum, that in 4/5 games time, we could be sat in the top 10. This would far surpass anything expected of the team this season by any fan, but it could set it up for a very tense final ten games, in which there is definitely a 6th spot up for grabs. The top 5, remain consistent and performing very well, and we don't have to face any of them in our next 6 fixtures and this could be a blessing. Realistically in our next 6 fixtures, we only have Sunderland who pose a serious danger to us, and it is likely we can get a result (win or draw) from the other five.

The playoffs with our final 6 games containing Burnley, Sheffield United, Watford and Middlesbrough may be a step too far, but I would not be surprised if approaching those last 6 games that we weren't within hailing distance of the top six.

The season has taken a surprising, but delightful twist, and its nice to be looking up, rather than down. If we finish where we are now, I would personally be happy, but we must not get carried away with ourselves and think that the closer to the top six we get, that expectation rises. It would be bad come 7th or 8th and fans feeling disappointed to just miss out. 

I am pleased Nige has turned it around. On paper he was always a very good appointment for us, I among many others at Xmas questioned if he was getting the best from the squad and whether he might take us down, but I am pleased it has been turned around.

What this last month has shown us though, is that next season with the purse strings loosened a little, and possibly the incoming funds should Scott be sold, that it would not be wrong to expect us to be competitive next season. 

It could also be said that bar 3/4 teams, this years Championship has been wide open, and actually grabbing the most unlikeliest of 6th places, and maybe landing the most unlikeliest of promotions given where we were at Xmas, might be our best opportunity in some time, and could also lead to us keeping hold of some of the stars ideally we don't want to lose just yet.

Personally, I think as fans we can enjoy the rest of the season, taking each game at a time. It's pleasing to see the change, and credit to Nige and his staff in turning it around. 

As said, if we end up 13th, then Nige has surpassed my hopes and expectations for this season. I personally feel it is a little too early to dare to dream, but in 6 games time, that 6th spot might not actually look that unrealistic, but our final 6 games is as tough a run in as we could have asked for, and that should not be ignored.

Well done Nige and the team for turning it around. 

Thank you for writing my opinions and thoughts. I often think that I am too pessimistic about everything in life. Maybe it's a realistic mindset.

[Port Said Red]

9 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Maybe. I don’t really see it that way. Is Pring really that much better in January than he was in October? Atkinson had a great start to the season got dropped and come back at same level. Vyner has shown when he gets a good run in one position he can perform. Finally playing Wells has helped us massively too. 
 

I am not sitting here trying to be overly negative. Just that one month of results hasn’t swayed me that he is all of a sudden a genius. 

Slot players into positions they have played growing up and during their careers? I have always acknowledged the culture shift under NP. It has always been on a match day that I don’t rate him. I just don’t think there is a way to measure it and I don’t measure as high. Imo the tools have been here to be more consistent in performances. The culture change had been in place for months so why all of a sudden have performances changed? It is putting the right people in the right positions and them gaining confidence. Something that could have been done 15 games ago

Sorry Joe but if you can't see where the difference is in Atkinson, then you need to go and review his past work.

I have been a big fan of his from day one, but even he would probably admit that the "Old Rob" would have struggled to cope with Ched Evans last week or Pukki and Sargent this week. The sheer determination not to be beaten just wasn't quite there before. 

That coupled with Zak being in the form of his life and Matty James in front of them proving why he was such an important signing, has allowed him to change to a formation he prefers. He said he couldn't "trust Rob" and I am sure that hurt, but I would bet good money that they both will admit it had the desired effect. It's been a long time since I was so confident that we would not concede in those last few minutes.

Regarding the time he has had, I think you and @Bar BS3 both mentioned this, I think he had a remit that was as much to do with off the pitch as on it. As a club we needed an evolution not a revolution, the board and some of us with a little inside knowledge could see it happening, others perhaps rightly, were only concerned with what's was happening on the pitch. There was a poster from Leicester City on here 18 months ago saying "stick with him, he will make your club better", and I think he is right. We aren't completely there yet, but I think we 75-85% of what a Pearson team should be.

[cidered abroad]

15 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Sorry Joe but if you can't see where the difference is in Atkinson, then you need to go and review his past work.

I have been a big fan of his from day one, but even he would probably admit that the "Old Rob" would have struggled to cope with Ched Evans last week or Pukki and Sargent this week. The sheer determination not to be beaten just wasn't quite there before. 

That coupled with Zak being in the form of his life and Matty James in front of them proving why he was such an important signing, has allowed him to change to a formation he prefers. He said he couldn't "trust Rob" and I am sure that hurt, but I would bet good money that they both will admit it had the desired effect. It's been a long time since I was so confident that we would not concede in those last few minutes.

Regarding the time he has had, I think you and @Bar BS3 both mentioned this, I think he had a remit that was as much to do with off the pitch as on it. As a club we needed an evolution not a revolution, the board and some of us with a little inside knowledge could see it happening, others perhaps rightly, were only concerned with what's was happening on the pitch. There was a poster from Leicester City on here 18 months ago saying "stick with him, he will make your club better", and I think he is right. We aren't completely there yet, but I think we 75-85% of what a Pearson team should be.

I would say that "We aren't completely there yet, but I think we are 75-85% of what a successful football club should be."

The most successful clubs are those where decade to decade, the proverbial "tea lady" is as important as the CEO, owner, football manager, players and supporters.

PS. The last sentence is not meant to be sexist or demeaning tlo feminine catering staff. Just my old fashioned language.

Edited February 12, 2023 by cidered abroad

[Barrs Court Red]

I can’t remember what match it was, may have been WBA, may have been sooner; but I wanted off Pearson’s wild ride.

 I hadn’t got to the point where I was vehemently against him, but the end seemed inevitable at some point soon, especially with the fans seemingly starting to get vocal about it.

Having finally found some consistency this side is now showing what it’s all about, and it’s the consistency that has been missing for so long. Too many wonderful performances were followed by woeful ones.  

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

Everybody allows chances and everybody concedes in this league. There are only 4 teams with a positive goal difference in double figures.

[FNQ]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

Go on then, when will our run finish (ex Man City).. and while I also don’t think we’ll finish top 6, who are the 12 teams that you’re expecting to finish above us?

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Everybody allows chances and everybody concedes in this league. There are only 4 teams with a positive goal difference in double figures.

We're just about in the bottom third for shots against, shots on target against, goals against, xG against. All in terms of raw numbers and when adjusted to be per 90mins. We're not the worst, not the near worst, but we're in that group.

2 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Go on then, when will our run finish (ex Man City).. and while I also don’t think we’ll finish top 6, who are the 12 teams that you’re expecting to finish above us?

I don't know when exactly it'll finish. And "mid table" doesn't mean 13th. It's anything between 9th and 15th as far as I'm concerned.

I am not saying we are bad, I'm delighted and I said in the match day thread that I think yesterday was a game where we came of age. But we should keep our feet on the ground. We're incredibly unlikely to be a playoff team this season.

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Although yesterday was a fantastic win, and this 9 game unbeaten run is excellent in terms of results, there remain concerns, and there remain reasons we won't get into the play offs.

Defensively we still allow opponents a large number of chances. However they tend to be lower quality, and O'Leary has played well. Combined that means we've been able to keep goals conceded fairly low. But - we are conceding.

Just as we were never as bad as some thought we were in the autumn, we're not as good as some think we are now. Expect the run to finish fairly soon, and for us to then go through the remainder of the season with a fairly typical mix of wins, draws and losses, ultimately finishing in mid table.

The difference between the low of Boxing Day and now has been the fitness of and the cohesion within the team. It was there yesterday for all to see.

The team spirit is excellent and every player is leaving nothing on the pitch and those factors are down to the influence and guidelines of the coaching team, recruited btw by Nige. 

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

Another three points on Wednesday eve will enhance City’s growing reputation.

[downendcity]

51 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I would say that "We aren't completely there yet, but I think we are 75-85% of what a successful football club should be."

The most successful clubs are those where decade to decade, the proverbial "tea lady" is as important as the CEO, owner, football manager, players and supporters.

PS. The last sentence is not meant to be sexist or demeaning tlo feminine catering staff. Just my old fashioned language.

As Churchill famously said, after the Allies first major victory two and a half years into the war, "this is not end, it is not the beginning if the end, it is the end of the beginning".

Perhaps, after the last 2 years we are at the end of the beginning,  and that without all the off field distractions and financial concerns the team becomes increasingly Pearson's team and that it continues to develop and improve.

[ExiledAjax]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The difference between the low of Boxing Day and now has been the fitness of and the cohesion within the team. It was there yesterday for all to see.

The team spirit is excellent and every player is leaving nothing on the pitch and those factors are down to the influence and guidelines of the coaching team, recruited btw by Nige. 

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

Another three points on Wednesday eve will enhance City’s growing reputation.

None of this really means anything though does it?

As for teams coming to AG with "trepidation". I suspect that actually they'll look at the numbers and the videos and they'll see that most teams get at least a dozen shots at our goal, that O'Leary is in form but is still prone to an error (like most goalkeepers), and they'll feel pretty confident of scoring at least once. 

Then they'll look at our attack and their goalkeeper will think "ok I've probably got to make just 2 or 3 saves today". If the defenders can stop the through balls and low crosses then there's not much else to worry about.

We can be dangerous, but we're not battering teams, we're getting good draws and wins, but we are vulnerable, and other teams will know that.

[DaveInSA]

Past performance is no indicator or guarantee of future performance. 

[Robbored]

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

None of this really means anything though does it?

As for teams coming to AG with "trepidation". I suspect that actually they'll look at the numbers and the videos and they'll see that most teams get at least a dozen shots at our goal, that O'Leary is in form but is still prone to an error (like most goalkeepers), and they'll feel pretty confident of scoring at least once. 

Then they'll look at our attack and their goalkeeper will think "ok I've probably got to make just 2 or 3 saves today". If the defenders can stop the through balls and low crosses then there's not much else to worry about.

We can be dangerous, but we're not battering teams, we're getting good draws and wins, but we are vulnerable, and other teams will know that.

This applies to pretty much every club all of whom have strengths and vulnerabilities. The top PL clubs are no exception.
 

[AshtonGreat]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

The bottom line is that football fans are a fickle bunch. Their dedication wavers depending on results and exactly why we saw so many criticising Nige when he was struggling to sort out the shambles left by LJ and Ashton.

Some of us appreciated that and also that he has a three year project in which time he’d be able to build a team capable of becoming a serious threat in the Championship with a mix of youth and experienced players.

Now in just 18 months he has changed the entire culture which was essential to enable the playing squad to feel ‘at home’ within the new healthy club culture.

I’ve said it before but Nige really is a proper manager. Head an shoulders above all the previous managers in the last 30 years.

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

[ExiledAjax]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

This applies to pretty much every club all of whom have strengths and vulnerabilities. The top PL clubs are no exception.

In which case why would an opponent approach us any differently?

[cidered abroad]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

No. How he manages people.

[AshtonGreat]

2 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

No. How he manages people.

That’s just one aspect of the job

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Based on what - his achievements at other clubs?

Based on several factors. 

The professional way in which he conducts himself impresses not only me but many others, including his backroom staff and players. 

He has developed a positive culture throughout the entire club, quite an achievement after the miasma left by Ashton and LJ. He’s achieved that by bringing in staff that he’d worked with previously and who’s qualities he knows.

Nige is a natural leader who others admire and follow.

He's creating a squad with a blend of experience and youth - SLs long term ambition - who must be delighted to see Nige  going about implementing his ambition.

I repeat - Nige is a proper manager and I’m delighted that he’s at our club.

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

That’s just one aspect of the job

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

[Robbored]

21 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

In which case why would an opponent approach us any differently?

Perhaps because our vulnerabilities are harder to identify?

[AshtonGreat]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

I find that hard to believe. There was an incredibly positive feeling around the club when SC was in charge, and the players seemed to really like him. Besides, you simply can’t be a poor manager and achieve what SC and GJ achieved. For me, NP has a long way to go yet

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Perhaps because our vulnerabilities are harder to identify?

So the trepidation is generated by the frustration of knowing that we have vulnerabilities, but having an inability to identify them.

Not sure I agree with that but you do you.

[Port Said Red]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

You are so transparent, I have windows in my house that are harder to see through.

[CodeRed]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That both Johnson’s were crap at as was SC. All of them subjected to scorn by those under them. We very rarely, if ever hear negative comments about Nige.

You're slipping Robbored! .... we're on page 4 of the thread and you've only just managed to work in something negative about Gary Johnson.

 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So the trepidation is generated by the frustration of knowing that we have vulnerabilities, but having an inability to identify them.

Not sure I agree with that but you do you.

I’ve had to read that four times…………..

If I’ve read it correctly you’re saying what I posted earlier 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

You're slipping Robbored! .... we're on page 4 of the thread and you've only just managed to work in something negative about Gary Johnson.

 

Just stating facts CR. 

Who in their right mind can compare any previous City manager in the last 3O years with what Nige is achieving in a couple of years?

[mozo]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a doubter. I get people can understand the bigger picture and the long term scale of things, and with that, maybe they are more accepting. But if a manager and any manger for that matter, didn't have any doubts when they had one of the poorest strike rates of managers in recent times, then the question should be, when is there time to doubt?

Am I pleased it has been turned around, absolutely. It is very much his team now, and whilst he may not have been able to bring in some luxury additions he would like, the additions are his additions. 

I don't care what anyone says, but in life performances don't breed confidence, results do, and the difference is, that on Boxing Day, we were being treated to the odd performance but there was no result, we had players out of position, and we seemed incapable of putting two results together. One might say, that some fans getting on Nige's back, and as a result probably people at the club as well, he had to try something new, and realised now was the time to put up, or be put out.

January and early February, has been a breath of fresh air, we have gone from unable to win despite playing well, to being able to win, or draw even if we don't. Confidence breeds confidence and confidence often leads to results. As present we are getting the results even when we are not impressive, and a lot of that will come down to confidence. 

The team is finally progressing in the right way on the pitch under Pearson, and that is all that those who were voicing concern wanted to see. Whether it's a change of playing staff, change of formation, playing players in the right position, or a combination of all those factors, the facts are, if anything we are starting to do a little too well. and this is when sometimes expectation becomes unrealistic.

What the current run does do, is takes us well away from the relegation zone. An area we needed to avoid this season, and all most fans wanted. Survival was key, nothing else this season mattered. On Boxing Day a number of fans, myself included were worried we were a little too close for comfort to the relegation zone. 

The issue I now have, is we are 7pts off the playoff zone, with a game in hand on 6th, and 6pts off 7th on level games. With Preston, Norwich and Blackburn all appearing to falter at present, it is not impossible that if we continue this forward momentum, that in 4/5 games time, we could be sat in the top 10. This would far surpass anything expected of the team this season by any fan, but it could set it up for a very tense final ten games, in which there is definitely a 6th spot up for grabs. The top 5, remain consistent and performing very well, and we don't have to face any of them in our next 6 fixtures and this could be a blessing. Realistically in our next 6 fixtures, we only have Sunderland who pose a serious danger to us, and it is likely we can get a result (win or draw) from the other five.

The playoffs with our final 6 games containing Burnley, Sheffield United, Watford and Middlesbrough may be a step too far, but I would not be surprised if approaching those last 6 games that we weren't within hailing distance of the top six.

The season has taken a surprising, but delightful twist, and its nice to be looking up, rather than down. If we finish where we are now, I would personally be happy, but we must not get carried away with ourselves and think that the closer to the top six we get, that expectation rises. It would be bad come 7th or 8th and fans feeling disappointed to just miss out. 

I am pleased Nige has turned it around. On paper he was always a very good appointment for us, I among many others at Xmas questioned if he was getting the best from the squad and whether he might take us down, but I am pleased it has been turned around.

What this last month has shown us though, is that next season with the purse strings loosened a little, and possibly the incoming funds should Scott be sold, that it would not be wrong to expect us to be competitive next season. 

It could also be said that bar 3/4 teams, this years Championship has been wide open, and actually grabbing the most unlikeliest of 6th places, and maybe landing the most unlikeliest of promotions given where we were at Xmas, might be our best opportunity in some time, and could also lead to us keeping hold of some of the stars ideally we don't want to lose just yet.

Personally, I think as fans we can enjoy the rest of the season, taking each game at a time. It's pleasing to see the change, and credit to Nige and his staff in turning it around. 

As said, if we end up 13th, then Nige has surpassed my hopes and expectations for this season. I personally feel it is a little too early to dare to dream, but in 6 games time, that 6th spot might not actually look that unrealistic, but our final 6 games is as tough a run in as we could have asked for, and that should not be ignored.

Well done Nige and the team for turning it around. 

Very well put 

[Northern Red]

Don't feed it lads, before he ruins yet another thread.

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I’ve had to read that four times…………..

If I’ve read it correctly you’re saying what I posted earlier 

It's absolutely not what you posted earlier - the below is what you posted regarding trepidation. It's merely a statement, it has no supporting evidence or reasoning. We've then had a conversation and arrived - apparently in agreement - upon the absurd reasoning that clubs will come to us in a state of trepidation because they know we have vulnerabilities but have been utterly unable to identify them. Bizarre tbh.

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

City are now performing well and other clubs will be very aware of our upturn in form. They’ll visit AG with some trepidation - it’s been quite some time since that’s been the case.

 

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Just stating facts CR. 

Who in their right mind can compare any previous City manager in the last 3O years with what Nige is achieving in a couple of years?

They're not facts though are they?  2 of the 3 managers you dismissed as crap won promotions, plus a champ play off final and a trophy between them.

Whilst Nige is doing a good job rebuilding the playing squad he hasn't won anything yet.

[Cityboy1954]

One thing stood out for me yesterday was the togetherness of the players hugging each other at the end of the game that tells you good times ahead .

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

They're not facts though are they?  2 of the 3 managers you dismissed as crap won promotions, plus a champ play off final and a trophy between them.

Whilst Nige is doing a good job rebuilding the playing squad he hasn't won anything yet.

The entire club environment has to be right CR and we all know that Nige inherited a club pretty much on its knees and yeah he’s doing a good job in rebuilding the culture as well as getting the players much fitter.

As yet Nige hasn’t won anything  but if he stays at City he will get us to the PL, maybe not this season but next season City will be in with a serious shout.

Winning promotion from the lower leagues is not too big a deal, lots of managers have that on their CV but nowhere near as many have a promotion to the PL on theirs. Only Nige and Danny Wilson had that.

 

[elhombrecito]

Stop feeding the troll everybody, this is what he lives for. 

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

As someone else said, you can look at the stats and perhaps make the case performances are the same. As someone who is at damn near every game, you can feel the change. The fullbacks higher up the pitch than the wingbacks ever were. The front 3 all pressing in unison. The intensity is much higher and generally everyone looks very comfortable in their roles. Every has a job, knows their job and executes it. 
 

You can feel the difference in the atmosphere. It isn’t a results thing. It started with Swansea in the cup. No we may not have possession or loads of shots. The intent and endeavour is now there and it wasn’t early in the season. There are no stats that can quantify it but I guarantee you ask 1000 city fans if it has been more enjoyable since Swansea in the cup, 1000 would say yes.

It isn’t results that get me going. It is intensity and intent. Today was scrappy at times but Norwich looked up for it. We made it scrappy by being aggressive. We didn’t let them get comfortable which has been a theme. Thats the difference I am on about and that came with a switch to 433. 

I think the change came about from Millwall and Coventry away, just like not losing at Wigan in game three gave belief to go on a run of 8 unbeaten playing a different formation and some of the best free-flowing flowing football I’ve seen in a good while.  That seems to have been easily forgotten.  Key players back from injury after the break (Jamo and Naismith missing in that dodgy run of results), the return to form of Semenyo (until his transfer), the emergence of Vyner and Atkinson, who’d previously needed to guiding hand and voice of Naismith or King.  Vyner’s leadership of Tanner and Pring at Swansea pre-break I think was his coming of age.  The Vyner up to that point was still making errors, and then pairing him with Atkinson was not a thought going through most City fans’ heads until Swansea (in the cup).  Funny that Swansea has made a big impact on Zak a few times after his performance there last season!

Re bit in bold…completely agree yesterday.

FWIW I said he should’ve never changed from a back 4 v QPR (a) at the start of last season, despite us snatching a 2-1 win in injury time.  But I see why he did, and why he persisted with it.  The WSM last season is as much a part of a back three system perversely, as was WCW (Wells, Conway, Weimann) this season.  

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, elhombrecito said:

Stop feeding the troll everybody, this is what he lives for. 

I know but it's difficult to resist when he praises the drinking culture that was here under Wilson but denigrates the culture of self improvement and winning mentality under Gary Johnson. His selectivity is jaw dropping. 

[spudski]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I’m surprised that some are saying the performances haven’t improved since the home FA cup game against Swansea.   The results have dramatically improved but quite clearly the performances have improved as well. Maybe not as dramatically as the results but there is a pretty clear improvement.  @Percy Pig @Davefevs you must surely see that defensively we are a fair bit stronger.  Fewer individual errors, better structure. Offensively we look more dangerous with width higher up the field.  More solid in midfield as well.  The better defensive platform in the last 5-6 games is a big step forward. I just can’t see how the performances have not improved at all. 

 

I agree with your observations. 

As has been spoken about on the thread already, there has obviously been mitigating circumstances that have led us to play certain ways, with players playing out of their strongest positions. 

We all agree, I'm sure, that NP has done a fantastic job. Remarkable considering circumstances. 

However...like all managers, none of them are perfect, I'm sure most look back with hindsight on occasion and wish they had done things differently...that's football...not all plans come to fruition.

What George Tanner said post match yesterday...implied performances improved with set up that the players felt more comfortable playing.

Being comfortable breeds confidence. And being confident and comfortable is a massive help. 

If you play in a system you are confident and comfortable in, then you play with freedom and less worry. Confident in your own ability, confident in your team mate not making errors. It makes a massive difference.

We haven't played much differently as has been pointed out. But we've cut out the individual errors and become defensively better. 

Playing with 4 at the back and 2 covering DCMS has been instrumental in our up turn in results imo. 

It stops oppositions exploiting our weaknesses. 

You can see the players are visably more confident playing in this set up. Not only does it help us defend better as a unit, but also allows us to play offensively with confidence, without worrying about losing the ball and be so open on the counter. 

In short...we aren't playing much differently to how we have all season...but the change has made us more defensively secure, which has bred confidence and in turn cut out individual errors. 

Formations perse are too vague. As they frequently change throughout a game. 

However...looking at stats...when we've initially set up in league games with 4 in midfield, we've lost most games. 

Playing 352 or 4231 has been our most successful set up...only losing 1 game. Winning 5 and drawing 5.

When we've played 3412 we lost 7, won 4, drew 4.

442...lost both games.

343 lost.

433 won.

Fingers crossed we can now play to a system where everyone is comfortable, and have a better depth of squad available. 

Going 4231 seems to have helped and reverting to a 352 during games has some logic. 

[awbb]

As disappointing as the WBA performance was on Boxing Day, even following some turgid form, I never thought we were quite as hopeless and disjointed as several of the death-throw games under LJ, let alone much of the Holden car crash. When factoring in that we were also playing "the in form team in the division" as well, it didn't really cross my mind that we should have got rid of him on that day.

As people have said, what Nige has been required to do with us is simply more than anyone has ever achieved.

• Revolutionize the culture.
• Develop an identity.
• Slash the wage budget.
• Avoid relegation.

GJ had to change the culture and we were utter garbage in the 3rd tier while he did it, but at least he got to subsequently reap the rewards. We had to slash the wage budget under McInnes and O'Driscoll and they were responsible for getting us relegated (between them) while overseeing some of the most powderpuff performances I've ever had the misfortune to witness. Even if we go on a shocking run from Wednesday and get relegated this season (which I don't believe for a second we will) compared to that? It's not remotely comparable in my opinion. Lastly, LJ and Ashton talked a lot about identity particularly about "DNA" and, notwithstanding those amazing 6 months in 2017/18, it really was just hot air.

It's a legitimate debate, which this thread has been a good example of, to criticize Nige's stubbornness about personnel and systems, of which, in the main, there are fair counter arguments. My feeling is that we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, when, on the face of it, an odd decision is made and that there is a long game to his tenure that I would like to see play out. 

 

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I’m surprised that some are saying the performances haven’t improved since the home FA cup game against Swansea.   The results have dramatically improved but quite clearly the performances have improved as well. Maybe not as dramatically as the results but there is a pretty clear improvement.  @Percy Pig @Davefevs you must surely see that defensively we are a fair bit stronger.  Fewer individual errors, better structure. Offensively we look more dangerous with width higher up the field.  More solid in midfield as well.  The better defensive platform in the last 5-6 games is a big step forward. I just can’t see how the performances have not improved at all. 

 

Even though I point to Millwall and Cov as the start of the turning point (is that a thing?), I actually think we defended really well at Rotherham first game back after the break.

I think @Percy Piggives a really good reply below.

There are undoubted advantages of the current system, we’ve seen in most of the games in the good run that there are flaws in it too.  Yesterday, if Norwich got through our forward block, then they could get the ball out to Onel Hernandez second half and expose Tanner.  Tanner did bloody brilliantly against him.

I think what has changed is what we look at in equating what is a good performance.  And I think that are some of the non-football stuff…togetherness, grit, the kind of stuff that get the crowd going, e.g. Pring’s recovery tackle on Pukki, Sykes’s lung busting run back to clear a danger.  The football stuff is still much the same, excitement on the counter and occasional nice patterns.

Defensively solid yesterday -  

Defensively solid last week at PNE - most definitely not.  Gutsy though? Not arf!

3 hours ago, TomF said:

WBA was the game where I started to doubt him. It was a truly awful game/performance and it felt like he’d lost the entire crowd that day.  Hopefully it’ll never hit those levels again. 

First half was very even.  Second half they played it so nicely whilst we huffed and puffed to create anything, and in fact we created situations rather than chances per se.  I honestly don’t see it as being as bad as other.  Nowhere near Brum (a).

2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Yes, I do. Just because I don't see the game in exactly the same way you do doesn't mean I don't attend or watch all our games. Pretty pathetic comment on your part tbh

Today wasn't great. We had two clear cut chances and none of the ball.

We just took one of those chances. 

Millwall was exactly the same. 

Only we missed 3 glaring opportunities.

Preston was not vintage football either.

Neither was Swansea in the replay.

Games we could easily have lost and not really been in a position to moan about. 

The thing that's been constant is the effort and togetherness of the squad. The organisation has been good in every spell of the season where we've had a near fully fit squad to choose from. We went 8 games unbeaten earlier this season playing 352. 

Now, I see a slight change in our pattern of play in the final third, in 352 it was about the interplay between the two forwards, who pressed high and ran the channel between CB and full back (exactly the run and pass that led to our goal yesterday). In the 433 we are looking to square the ball from slightly wider for a tap in at the back post for the other wide man.

Across the rest of the pitch the plan is pretty much identical. We move the ball through the thirds when we can and the full backs offer the out ball when the opposition get their shape. The press is the same and we try to attack fairly fast. We did that before. 

I actually felt we played "better" football in the first run at the start of the season. The way Naismith played at sweeper was really impressive and brave and the overlapping centre backs driving into the midfield gave us central overloads and allowed us to dominate that part of the pitch. The Luton home game was honestly the most I've enjoyed a performance from us in years. 

Naismiths and then James' injuries hurt that as we lost the main brains of the outfit.

I don't want us to revert back to 352, I just completely disagree with the notion that we have been miles off it. We could have been 5-10 points better off if decisions had gone our way, if avoidable mistakes hadn't cost us etc. A mistake takes 1 seconds to occur, does that nullify the other 89 minutes and 59 seconds of the performance? 

This spell was always coming. It wasn't difficult to see we were close. Maybe 433 was the final bit of the jigsaw, maybe it's luck? Maybe it's something none of us have noticed. I don't know, nobody does. 

Ta.  Covers a lot of my thoughts.

[Red-Robbo]

I'm not jizzing myself over the fact we're 13th, however what is fantastic is that all the players are now playing to their proper ability - and in the case of the younger players, we're actually seeing improvements game-by-game. It's exciting and you can see confidence seep back into the players, and also in fans. When the squad didn't believe in themselves, was it any wonder that many supporters didn't?

Some of this came by happenstance. Injuries and departures allowed players to get used to each other, form comfortable defensive and offensive partnerships, play in positions that suited their game. A bit like when close season injuries forced LJ to play Reid up front and whoosh, he started that season like a goal-scoring rocket. 

Pearson also seems to have acquired a better perception of players strengths and weaknesses and a better handle on who the first XI should be. We could say, this took a lot longer than we expected, hence the dodgy start to this season and very undistinguished performance last term. In his defence, we could say he had to balance competitiveness with the need to get wages down, was never entirely sure who he'd have to work with after every window and couldn't afford players he'd really like in many positions. Given those strictures, he's done really well, bringing through young players who can hold their own in one of Europe's top leagues, against guys who are paid vastly more and have cost many millions. There can't be many Championship sides with more academy products playing. 

A few unfortunate injuries could still derail the happy place we're in now, but as it stands, the football is great and I can only see more wins. As a former defender, it warms my cockles seeing the back line get as many appreciative claps and cheers as the goal-scoring front men.  Pearson knows who he has for the rest of the season, and can set-up accordingly. 

Really excited to see our two new boys yesterday as well. Is it just me, or do others see in Mehmeti the fancy footwork of Massengo, but combined with some goal threat. Cornick worked hard as well, and you can see his famed heading ability helping out in defence as well as attack. 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

Playing with 4 at the back and 2 covering DCMS has been instrumental in our up turn in results imo. 

It stops oppositions exploiting our weaknesses. 

 

Back pre-World Cup I questioned why Southgate plays a back 3.  And my gut feel was he hasn’t got two good enough to play there, so he plays an extra one to compensate.  You just end up with three who aren’t good enough!!!  But what it does is means you either lose a forward or a midfielder.  My challenge back was why not protect your weaknesses my playing the players that are good enough, e.g. a midfielder instead of a CB.

I could draw similar parallels with our situation, but I wasn’t sure whether we had the personnel to remove a defender for a midfielder.  Even in the cup game at Swansea, Naismith moving into midfield was actually quite poor in that second half, bar a couple of nice passes.  He improved / got used to it quickly though.  Shame he’s out injured.

If we do stick with this, Recruitment will be easier in the summer.  

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Back pre-World Cup I questioned why Southgate plays a back 3.  And my gut feel was he hasn’t got two good enough to play there, so he plays an extra one to compensate.  You just end up with three who aren’t good enough!!!  But what it does is means you either lose a forward or a midfielder.  My challenge back was why not protect your weaknesses my playing the players that are good enough, e.g. a midfielder instead of a CB.

I could draw similar parallels with our situation, but I wasn’t sure whether we had the personnel to remove a defender for a midfielder.  Even in the cup game at Swansea, Naismith moving into midfield was actually quite poor in that second half, bar a couple of nice passes.  He improved / got used to it quickly though.  Shame he’s out injured.

If we do stick with this, Recruitment will be easier in the summer.  

 

I'd think any young, improving player would love to come and play for Nigel Pearson. Here's a guy who'll give you a chance and say 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'. The coaching here can be seen to improve youngsters and we have a thriving U23 side, providing competition.

He's sort of the anti-Tony Pulis in that respect.

 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, awbb said:

My feeling is that we have to give him the benefit of the doubt, when, on the face of it, an odd decision is made and that there is a long game to his tenure that I would like to see play out. 

We only see the 90 minutes on the pitch.  We don’t even hear the tactical conversations that go on in the dugout / technical area.

Not trying to be facetious about the formation stuff, but we saw out injury time pretty well…because we got Kalas on and allowed Tanner to go out wider on Hernandez.  We haven’t very often had the option to do that.  The bench over last two games now has viable options to keep us strong.  That is a huge boon.

At other times this season, I’ve often thought that although the sub coming on can bring freshness / intensity, it’s often been at the expense of quality, ie the player coming on isn’t as good as the player going off.

[italian dave]

10 hours ago, REDOXO said:

It’s not ancient history though is it! We still have players on those eye watering wages and we have to sell players to mitigate that!
 

it’s current history. 

We’re pretty close now though, aren’t we? I don’t think anyone would argue we’re not getting value from Wells and (injuries aside) Kalas - and to the extent that we’re not, that’s entirely down to pre and post covid market changes. 

Look, we may not be 100% there, but the general consensus seems to be that we made huge strides this January. And I’m not suggesting that there’s no place for debate about the merits, consequences etc of previous management regimes. There’s a long thread elsewhere and you and I have shared discussion there.

I just find it tiresome now when so many threads get taken off tangent by this. 

And this thread is a good example: what’s started as a very good natured question about whether we’d turned the corner, what’s happened over the past 8 weeks or so, what difference that had made, whether that should give us hope that it will be sustained….all interesting stuff. And then one poster has the temerity to suggest that they’re not 100% convinced, and immediately we get the “yeah, but…..Lee Johnson/Mark Ashton” and lo and behold we’re into that whole debate again, and along comes the forum troll to pitch in with Gary  and with Danny Wilson. Just tedious. 

[steviestevieneville]

15 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

So does every side. All those players have been available the majority of not only this season but last. He has had the tools to do this for the last 18 months. It has taken him 17 months to figure it out.

I am not buying the he dropped them and now they are better either. Pring, Atkinson and Tanner were all good last season too when given chances. Sykes playing a more natural forward position is now coming into form. 
 

Imo he has complicated things all season. It takes him half the season to settle on who his best XI is. All I am saying is I am not shouting off the roof he is the best manager we ever had because we had a good month. I do however hope he keeps it going. Happy to be “wrong” about NP but who knows what any manager could have done with 24 months and unlimited patience from the owner. 

 

Can’t agree with this. We were saying yesterday it’s probably a trust issue why we played 3 at the back for so long . Not thinking we were strong enough to play 4 at the back . Look at Pring as well he did ok last season but didn’t have the stamina to last 90 minutes , he was blowing after a hour . Not a issue this season though so the medical/ conditioning staff have obviously worked on this. Tanner had a long injury that would of taken longer to come back from than you think. Him & cam are proper fullbacks as well not wingbacks , especially George . Therefore a back 3 that Pearson played due to his lack of trust in two centre backs didn’t suit him . 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

I'm honestly in awe of your ability to write so many words and say absolutely nothing. 

Percy - if you don’t understand what I’ve posted please don’t fret, no one is judging you.

 

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Can’t agree with this. We were saying yesterday it’s probably a trust issue why we played 3 at the back for so long . Not thinking we were strong enough to play 4 at the back . Look at Pring as well he did ok last season but didn’t have the stamina to last 90 minutes , he was blowing after a hour . Not a issue this season though so the medical/ conditioning staff have obviously worked on this. Tanner had a long injury that would of taken longer to come back from than you think. Him & cam are proper fullbacks as well not wingbacks , especially George . Therefore a back 3 that Pearson played due to his lack of trust in two centre backs didn’t suit him . 

Tanner and Pring are defensively sound in the RB and LB sense. 

However, they both have the ability to play offensively ( like a wing back). They are the best of both worlds.

Imo...they have provided just as much, if not more width and offensive play, than when we played with ' wing backs '. 

The CDMs allow this to happen. It doesn't leave us open to counter attack so much. 

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I was a doubter but never reached the stage that I wanted Nige sacked. I just wanted improvement - which we are now seeing, so all’s well in the R&W camp. 
After a really dire streak before Christmas, I’m really enjoying this good streak……….

[steviestevieneville]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tanner and Pring are defensively sound in the RB and LB sense. 

However, they both have the ability to play offensively ( like a wing back). They are the best of both worlds.

Imo...they have provided just as much, if not more width and offensive play, than when we played with ' wing backs '. 

The CDMs allow this to happen. It doesn't leave us open to counter attack so much. 

 

I agree to a extent but they’re both better orthodox full backs imo , especially Tanner 

[redsquirrel]

tanner reminds me of the neville that played there for man u

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, 2015 said:

Absolutely spot on. Can only think of a few 'bad' performances this season. Reading A, Birmingham A, WBA H. Said it even in December, the side haven't been far away all season!

Thought 1st half v QPR and in general Millwall at home were in different ways rather poor too but generally agree with this- might add 1st half v WBA on Boxing Day very little in it.and certainly not a poor one IMO- 2nd half it got away from us badly, WBA were just better anyway.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

We’re pretty close now though, aren’t we? I don’t think anyone would argue we’re not getting value from Wells and (injuries aside) Kalas - and to the extent that we’re not, that’s entirely down to pre and post covid market changes. 

Look, we may not be 100% there, but the general consensus seems to be that we made huge strides this January. And I’m not suggesting that there’s no place for debate about the merits, consequences etc of previous management regimes. There’s a long thread elsewhere and you and I have shared discussion there.

I just find it tiresome now when so many threads get taken off tangent by this. 

And this thread is a good example: what’s started as a very good natured question about whether we’d turned the corner, what’s happened over the past 8 weeks or so, what difference that had made, whether that should give us hope that it will be sustained….all interesting stuff. And then one poster has the temerity to suggest that they’re not 100% convinced, and immediately we get the “yeah, but…..Lee Johnson/Mark Ashton” and lo and behold we’re into that whole debate again, and along comes the forum troll to pitch in with Gary  and with Danny Wilson. Just tedious. 

Unfortunately it’s a fact of life that the club were a mess and that had to be dealt with. Threads being hijacked, clearly you think so, but I’m not sure it’s the case, either way it’s a measure of where we were and where we are!

[Mr Popodopolous]

Hindsight is wonderful etc but I was never really so concerned about the drop.

Because we were often competitive, playing well in fact- at home certainly. Tough but not necessarily flowing on the road. Generally when that happens results turn, the two start to match up.

At the same time though momentum can take us forward, I don't see us as top six. Not yet anyway- in the same way I wasn't especially worried about the drop, I'm not getting carried away about the chances of us crashing the top 6 either.

Always had faith in NP though, what a tough job he inherited, what a tough remit he has had.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous