O'Neills - New Kit Supplier (Confirmed)

[The Journalist]

The badge thing is ridiculous IMO.

Being a football fan is largely about identity and tribalism. Assuming we wear it before the end of the season, it'll be the fourth different badge we've had on our shirts in the space of four years - and that's not including changing the colour of them on the various away kits. How do you identify with something that's constantly changing?!

It's a branding disaster. And it doesn't help that it looks shit and sits on a tinpot supplier, either.

Edited March 13, 2023 by The Journalist

[redkev]

56 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I know that commentary off by heart!

”And the ball breaks and it’s a fine shot and it’s in…the youngster, Mardon has given Bristol City the lead”

Not sure if I mentioned before but my sister was mascot for this game. She borrowed my yellow shirt (boo). Big Joe didn’t want her in the changing room so when Cloughie saw her in the corridor he insisted she come in the forest room and introduced her to the team. My parents had a brilliant photo of her and the Forest mascot on Cloughies lap.

On topic - nice apart from the badge! 

Absolutely a belter of a day / night , seeing that corner of the terrace absolutely rammed with city gives me a tingle , that looked a decent enough following but we also had the whole bottom tier right up to the Trent end . 
went on a coach from our local was in a forest pub with many other city + forest ( no away fan friendly pubs back then ) you went where you wanted and either paid the consequences or took over the pub , Liverpool was also very similar I can remember a scoucer  walking in a saying wtf this is meant to be a Liverpool pub , my mate said it is but it’s full of Bristolians now xxxx xxx. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by redkev

[Mr X]

27 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Genuinely the worst kit since the kit that never was! 
 

Colour, badge, design is so poor. How have we gone from hummels quality to that?

I take it this is the one you mean? O'Neills the new TFG?

[Bris Red]

30 minutes ago, lenred said:

Thank god we didn’t go with them.  Think I’d even rather O’Neills over Castore. The Sketchers of football shirts !  

Hmm i disagree, i think some of the new Castore kits look decent and the quality is definitely good from the kits I’ve seen of theirs in the flesh..

They sponsor Villa, Wolves, Newcastle and Rangers in the Uk and also supply the kit for Bayer leverkusen, Sevilla, Athletic Bilbao and are apparently close to signing a deal with Hamburg to supply kit for them. Also sponsors the England cricket team and Mclaren and Red Bull F1 teams.
 

They are clearly a very ambitious brand and sponsor some big football clubs and other sports teams. Hardly the ‘sketchers’ of football shirts but each to their own like..

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Bris Red

[Taz]

1 minute ago, Mr X said:

I take it this is the one you mean? O'Neills the new TFG?

Strangely enough, the korma kit I compared the "new" kit to earlier was from the same season as this IIRC. 

I think we may have gone to Puma the season after that set of kits, as I can't remember many more of the TFG offerings after that.... Happy to be corrected though, as I've just remembered about a white TFG shirt and I can't place where it goes in the timeline!

[Bristol Rob]

16 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

Spot on. People moan about template kits… I’d much rather stick a (proper) City badge on this than the cheap looking rubbish that’s been served up. 

One of those ^ sew on one of these

https://embroideres.com/bristol-city-fc-logo-embroidery-design-12592

Proper(ish) retro shirt, under 30 quid.

[BasSavage88]

Dont mind that kit. 

That ******* badge though  wonder how much they payed some shit consultancy firm to tell.them it would be a good idea 

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

One of those ^ sew on one of these

https://embroideres.com/bristol-city-fc-logo-embroidery-design-12592

Proper(ish) retro shirt, under 30 quid.

Or if you are on a budget and want to save 80p on the badge.

https://embroideres.com/bristol-city-robin-logo-embroidery-design-62444

 

[freezer]

12 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I take it this is the one you mean? O'Neills the new TFG?

MY EYES, MY EYES...... 

[Kid in the Riot]

Dreadful kit.

But more annoying is the fact the club have decided to change the front of shirt club badge with zero fan consultation. Thought we'd got past the club taking the piss like this. I can't imagine this would have happened under Richard Gould.

Ironically, the new football governance bill would likely prevent the club doing something like this, unless it had carried out a proper consultation with fans. 

[ChippenhamRed]

Sorry but they’re still doing nothing to convince me this isn’t a massive step backwards from Hummel in terms of quality. The utterly uninspiring design, the fit, the washed-out colour, the horrendous badge…TFG vibes for me.

….compared to the Hummel Robin top…good grief.

And yes I know Hummel let us down…but that doesn’t change the fact that everything looks cheap by comparison.

Based on what I’ve seen, I wish we’d done what Coventry did and resolved the supply issue with Hummel.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I know that commentary off by heart!

”And the ball breaks and it’s a fine shot and it’s in…the youngster, Mardon has given Bristol City the lead”

Not sure if I mentioned before but my sister was mascot for this game. She borrowed my yellow shirt (boo). Big Joe didn’t want her in the changing room so when Cloughie saw her in the corridor he insisted she come in the forest room and introduced her to the team. My parents had a brilliant photo of her and the Forest mascot on Cloughies lap.

On topic - nice apart from the badge! 

Paul Mardon was my school year, played against loads of times versus Merrywood or Fair Furlong.  He was always a striker at age group.  Had a decent career.

Nice touch by Cloughie.

Think my jeans are still drying out from the 2nd leg!

[ChippenhamRed]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Dreadful kit.

But more annoying is the fact the club have decided to change the front of shirt club badge with zero fan consultation. Thought we'd got past the club taking the piss like this. I can't imagine this would have happened under Richard Gould.

Ironically, the new football governance bill would likely prevent the club doing something like this, unless it had carried out a proper consultation with fans. 

The switch to Hummel felt like a step up in terms of the professionalism of the whole club. No more dicking about with Sans Serif fonts, hashtags and own-brand gear of dubious quality. This feels like the reverse.

[!james]

17 minutes ago, Mr X said:

I take it this is the one you mean? O'Neills the new TFG?

I think the kit has aged better than the nutcase wearing it though! 

[Ronnie Sinclair]

That badge is grotesque - when I learned we were going for yellow and green I'd half hoped it might be the same design as the home version

[ExiledAjax]

17 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Dreadful kit.

But more annoying is the fact the club have decided to change the front of shirt club badge with zero fan consultation. Thought we'd got past the club taking the piss like this. I can't imagine this would have happened under Richard Gould.

Ironically, the new football governance bill would likely prevent the club doing something like this, unless it had carried out a proper consultation with fans. 

Interesting point. I'd love to know the logic behind the sanctioning of the badge move - because the official badge is still technically on the shirt albeit it's been moved to the back of the shirt.

I'm not sure the new Regulator would prevent this. We don't know what the final rules will say, but in existing draft and example items that I've written and seen written, we've kind of approached it from a "don't change the official badge/crest", but it's always been under an assumption that the official badge/crest is what is then used uniformly across all media/kits/anywhere else that the club wants to use it's 'logo'.

Your post has given me some food for thought. Friday I'm meeting some people to discuss the regulator/Governance and so I'll mention it from this angle.

Edited March 13, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[ChippenhamRed]

52 minutes ago, Shuffle said:

Apparently we were talking to Castore as the new provider but they would only produce template kit whilst O,Neil’s would allow bespoke designs.   No fan of this kit as others have said, the badge is horrendous.  

I have the England cricket ODI top from Castore and the quality and design is really good.

Castore have built up a decent stable of big clubs. Struggling to imagine they wouldn’t have come up with something better than this.

[freezer]

Think someone has just found a stock photo of a Robin in flight and went with it. 

Shame the all important colouration isn't present though. 

[ChippenhamRed]

We dumped Holly Willoughby and ended up with Anne Widdecombe.

[SouthStand Sandwich]

Truly awful… obviously Jon L has got previous on this … comic sans font… tinpot. 

[Cardy]

Quite possibly our worst kit ever and we have had a few shockers over the years. Definitely in the top 3. 
The badge is an absolute disgrace - what sort of identity is a headless pigeon ffs? Just why??

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Did the club discuss any of this with SCAT or are they kept in the dark about yet another identity change?

I don’t understand why they don’t consult with fans on the design before they launch. If they want to maximise profit they need to sell something fans want to buy. Already from the comments here after just a few minutes, the consensus appears to be that we don’t like the badge, the design is meh and the colour is weirdly pale. Change all that and they’d sell more.

[Lack of Action Man]

2 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

We dumped Holly Willoughby and ended up with Anne Widdecombe.

I personally never liked this shirt, and still struggle to see the appeal of it. To me, this kit was bland and uninspiring.

But I have to agree with comments already made in this thread that the new third shirt looks washed out, and the badge is a bit of a farse.

What does annoy me a little (not so much in this thread, but elsewhere on the forum) is that some people seemed to have made their mind up on O’Neills purely because they’re an Irish/Gaelic supplier, which I think is unfair. As someone who’s dabbled in the Gaelic sports, O’Neills gear has never let me down and certainly is (in my experience) better than TFG. I think that comparison is a bit harsh tbh.

That being said, it doesn’t matter too much. Since I have this collection of classics to wear anyway  

[Lordofthebling]

4 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

I personally never liked this shirt, and still struggle to see the appeal of it. To me, this kit was bland and uninspiring.

But I have to agree with comments already made in this thread that the new third shirt looks washed out, and the badge is a bit of a farse.

What does annoy me a little (not so much in this thread, but elsewhere on the forum) is that some people seemed to have made their mind up on O’Neills purely because they’re an Irish/Gaelic supplier, which I think is unfair. As someone who’s dabbled in the Gaelic sports, O’Neills gear has never let me down and certainly is (in my experience) better than TFG. I think that comparison is a bit harsh tbh.

That being said, it doesn’t matter too much. Since I have this collection of classics to wear anyway  

Absolute belters in there. Middle, thorn security, will always be my fave. What a time to be alive.

Think the new kit looks like:

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Lordofthebling

[Lack of Action Man]

1 minute ago, Lordofthebling said:

Absolute belters in there. Middle will always be my fave.

 

 

This is one I do not have, but I see online regularly goes for good money!

[Ronnie Sinclair]

2 minutes ago, Lordofthebling said:

Absolute belters in there. Middle, thorn security, will always be my fave. What a time to be alive.

Think the new kit looks like:

 

The first shirt I ever owned 

[Major Isewater]

20 hours ago, Norn Iron said:

Dr Balls knows his wine! He's correct.

I too love Primitivo. Always reliable.

For Italian whites, I find it is hard to beat Verdicchio dei Castilli di Jesi.

Barolo  or a good montepulciano d’Abruzzo . 

[Dynamite Red]

Someone needs to step back from the clip art, that badge is an abomination. 

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, OddBallJim said:

Bring back the crest/coat of arms (if intending to swap the badge).

That Robin looks really out of place.

Let's face it, if you or I were a robin that looked like that, we'd be straight down the doctors.

[Hartleysbeard]

So the FA website says this:

‘Under the new rules, if a club wishes to make a material change to its club crest, or change its recognised home shirt colours, it must undertake a thorough and extensive consultation process with supporters. 
 
A club must also be able to evidence that a majority of its supporters are in favour of any proposed changes (such as via an independently-run poll of season ticket holders, the club’s Community Benefit Society, and supporters that have attended a certain number of home matches).’

Have we got round this on a technicality by having the badge on the back? 

[Laner]

Just imagine what dross was rejected before this abomination was agreed on. 

[weepywall]

42 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Sorry but they’re still doing nothing to convince me this isn’t a massive step backwards from Hummel in terms of quality. The utterly uninspiring design, the fit, the washed-out colour, the horrendous badge…TFG vibes for me.

….compared to the Hummel Robin top…good grief.

And yes I know Hummel let us down…but that doesn’t change the fact that everything looks cheap by comparison.

Based on what I’ve seen, I wish we’d done what Coventry did and resolved the supply issue with Hummel.

I think if we hadn't played Man City in the cup then we would still be with Hummel. I'm guessing obviously but I don't think Hummel could supply the kit with the extra sponsors on for the cup game so were rapidly dropped. 

[BasSavage88]

47 minutes ago, freezer said:

Think someone has just found a stock photo of a Robin in flight and went with it. 

Shame the all important colouration isn't present though. 

Jesus ******* Christ. That's proper lazy and ******* cheap. Some ***** knocked that up in 5 minutes

Edited March 13, 2023 by BasSavage88

[bpexile]

23 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Let's face it, if you or I were a robin that looked like that, we'd be straight down the doctors.

Or put down at the vets 

[Silvio Dante]

59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Nice touch by Cloughie.

Think my jeans are still drying out from the 2nd leg!

I mean…I got excited when Walshie hit the post but I didn’t get that excited…

Edited March 13, 2023 by Silvio Dante

[Bobbie]

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

[Mr X]

Great spot, that is embarrassing for the club. Not much better than Jon Lansdown booting up an old Windows 98 computer and seeing what's on the clipart.     

56 minutes ago, freezer said:

Think someone has just found a stock photo of a Robin in flight and went with it. 

Shame the all important colouration isn't present though. 

 

[steviestevieneville]

8 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

It’s about having a bit of style looking good in front the cameras . 

[ChippenhamRed]

9 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

If you care enough about a football team to contribute to an online forum dedicated to it, it’s not unreasonable to have an opinion on the identity and appearance of that team, of which the kit is a key component.

Not remotely baffling.

[Bris Red]

12 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

You obviously cared enough to comment pal 

[BasSavage88]

10 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Great spot, that is embarrassing for the club. Not much better than Jon Lansdown booting up an old Windows 98 computer and seeing what's on the clipart.     

 

It's lazy. I also think it means the logo can't be trademarked so anyone can use the design and put it on hats mugs etc with city not able to do a thing. 

[KegCity]

Really disappointed with the badge as I’d been looking forward to buying that shirt. Oh well.

[RedRock]

14 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

Well, some reasons why a good quality, well designed shirt is important:-

* extra one percent performance from players feeling good about what they’re wearing.

* extra cash generated from shirt sales

* Club image to wider audience

* longevity of the shirt for purchasers

Thats just off the top of my head. Sure there are many other reasons. 

[Bobbie]

6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

If you care enough about a football team to contribute to an online forum dedicated to it, it’s not unreasonable to have an opinion on the identity and appearance of that team, of which the kit is a key component.

Not remotely baffling.

It’s not a key component though is it. I have zero opinion on any other teams kit. We play in red. Job done. 

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, Hartleysbeard said:

So the FA website says this:

‘Under the new rules, if a club wishes to make a material change to its club crest, or change its recognised home shirt colours, it must undertake a thorough and extensive consultation process with supporters. 
 
A club must also be able to evidence that a majority of its supporters are in favour of any proposed changes (such as via an independently-run poll of season ticket holders, the club’s Community Benefit Society, and supporters that have attended a certain number of home matches).’

Have we got round this on a technicality by having the badge on the back? 

Yes these are a reference to the FAs new rules on heritage protection. These were brought in earlier this season. The White Paper suggests that the Government thinks this is sufficient protection. I cannot find the full new rules published anywhere though, so have no idea what they actually say beyond the press releases.

Have you got a copy?

[Hartleysbeard]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes these are a reference to the FAs new rules on heritage protection. These were brought in earlier this season. The White Paper suggests that the Government thinks this is sufficient protection. I cannot find the full new rules published anywhere though, so have no idea what they actually say beyond the press releases.

Have you got a copy?

I can’t find anything more than this. 

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

It’s not a key component though is it. I have zero opinion on any other teams kit. We play in red. Job done. 

You think a kit isn’t a key component of a team’s identity?!

Football kits have long been a part of fan culture. Just because you don’t have any opinions at all doesn’t make it “baffling” that others do…quite the opposite.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Hartleysbeard said:

I can’t find anything more than this. 

Neither can I. It's weird, everything I read talks as though these rules are in place...and then I look in the FA handbook and can't see them. If they are meant to protect heritage assets that fans have an interest in then they should be publicly available. I'll keep looking and asking.

[Slacker]

I can't even comment on the rest of the shirt.That badge on anything would make it absolutely hideous!

[View from the Dolman]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yes these are a reference to the FAs new rules on heritage protection. These were brought in earlier this season. The White Paper suggests that the Government thinks this is sufficient protection. I cannot find the full new rules published anywhere though, so have no idea what they actually say beyond the press releases.

Have you got a copy?

Per the FA Handbook (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/fa-handbook)...

REGISTRATION AND CHANGE OF CLUB CREST

M4 Each Club shall register its Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.
Guidance: This will ensure The Association can maintain an accurate record of Club Crests as a reference point to operate these Rules. Clubs should register any new Club Crest (including where there are minor changes which do not engage these Rules) to ensure The Association has an accurate record at all times.

M5 A Club Crest shall not be distasteful, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting, discriminatory, ethically or morally offensive, or include any political or religious message, or include any form of advertising.

M6 A Club seeking to change its Club Crest shall not choose a design which would cause confusion with the existing Club Crest of another Club.

M7 The Club Crest shall comply with the Kit and Advertising Regulations.

M8 No Club shall make any material changes to its Club Crest without first undertaking a thorough and extensive consultation with its supporters.
Guidance: Clubs seeking to ensure they have undertaken a thorough and extensive consultation with supporters should undertake an independently run supporter poll to give weight to its proposal. The nature of such a poll will depend upon the circumstances of the Club in question but should include taking a poll of (where applicable); members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with
the FCA (in many cases, a group of club supporters more commonly referred to as a supporters’ trust will be registered as a Community Benefit Society), season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. Club Crests form an important part of the identity of a Club and changes can be an emotive issue for some supporters and lead to legitimate concerns being raised. 

These Rules apply to any material changes to any aspect of a Club Crest (e.g. changing a colour from blue to red, adding or deleting text, or adding new design features and/or deleting established design features). These Rules are not intended to apply to the types of small changes to a Club Crest which occur more regularly, such as making a colour slightly lighter or darker, or slightly increasing or decreasing the size of a font. Whilst there may often be a strong case for the modernisation of a Club Crest, given the prominence of a Club’s Crest on kits, promotional material, broadcast and other visual media, it is of vital importance that the views of supporters are given significant weight when deciding to make material changes.

It is noted that some Clubs mark anniversaries by introducing a club crest which draws on previous heritage but differs from that in current use by the Club. Whilst these Rules will still apply in such circumstances, Clubs will be given a greater margin of discretion with regard to a temporary change to a club crest of this nature provided that the change is for a maximum of one playing season.

M9 A Club must be in a position to evidence that the majority of its supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest prior to making any such change.
Guidance: In assessing whether or not the majority of a Club’s supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest, The Association will give significant weight to the views of members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with the FCA, season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. For the avoidance of doubt, the views of a Club’s wider supporter base and/or membership shall not be disregarded for the purposes of any assessment by The Association.

M10 If a Club makes any material changes to its Club Crest then it shall register the new Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.

M11 The Association shall have the power to instruct a Club to use a previous version of the Club Crest where in the reasonable opinion of The Association a Club has breached any of Rules M4 to M10.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Dreadful kit.

But more annoying is the fact the club have decided to change the front of shirt club badge with zero fan consultation. Thought we'd got past the club taking the piss like this. I can't imagine this would have happened under Richard Gould.

Ironically, the new football governance bill would likely prevent the club doing something like this, unless it had carried out a proper consultation with fans. 

The flying Robin image, or whatever it is officially called, has been in use for a while in t-shirt sales in the club shop and on the kits sported by the coaching staff. Such a kit was visibly worn by Curtis Fleming at the weekend. 

As for the quality of the kits I will hold judgement until I've seen and handled them up close. 

[Hartleysbeard]

2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Per the FA Handbook (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/fa-handbook)...

REGISTRATION AND CHANGE OF CLUB CREST

M4 Each Club shall register its Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.
Guidance: This will ensure The Association can maintain an accurate record of Club Crests as a reference point to operate these Rules. Clubs should register any new Club Crest (including where there are minor changes which do not engage these Rules) to ensure The Association has an accurate record at all times.

M5 A Club Crest shall not be distasteful, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting, discriminatory, ethically or morally offensive, or include any political or religious message, or include any form of advertising.

M6 A Club seeking to change its Club Crest shall not choose a design which would cause confusion with the existing Club Crest of another Club.

M7 The Club Crest shall comply with the Kit and Advertising Regulations.

M8 No Club shall make any material changes to its Club Crest without first undertaking a thorough and extensive consultation with its supporters.
Guidance: Clubs seeking to ensure they have undertaken a thorough and extensive consultation with supporters should undertake an independently run supporter poll to give weight to its proposal. The nature of such a poll will depend upon the circumstances of the Club in question but should include taking a poll of (where applicable); members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with
the FCA (in many cases, a group of club supporters more commonly referred to as a supporters’ trust will be registered as a Community Benefit Society), season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. Club Crests form an important part of the identity of a Club and changes can be an emotive issue for some supporters and lead to legitimate concerns being raised. 

These Rules apply to any material changes to any aspect of a Club Crest (e.g. changing a colour from blue to red, adding or deleting text, or adding new design features and/or deleting established design features). These Rules are not intended to apply to the types of small changes to a Club Crest which occur more regularly, such as making a colour slightly lighter or darker, or slightly increasing or decreasing the size of a font. Whilst there may often be a strong case for the modernisation of a Club Crest, given the prominence of a Club’s Crest on kits, promotional material, broadcast and other visual media, it is of vital importance that the views of supporters are given significant weight when deciding to make material changes.

It is noted that some Clubs mark anniversaries by introducing a club crest which draws on previous heritage but differs from that in current use by the Club. Whilst these Rules will still apply in such circumstances, Clubs will be given a greater margin of discretion with regard to a temporary change to a club crest of this nature provided that the change is for a maximum of one playing season.

M9 A Club must be in a position to evidence that the majority of its supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest prior to making any such change.
Guidance: In assessing whether or not the majority of a Club’s supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest, The Association will give significant weight to the views of members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with the FCA, season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. For the avoidance of doubt, the views of a Club’s wider supporter base and/or membership shall not be disregarded for the purposes of any assessment by The Association.

M10 If a Club makes any material changes to its Club Crest then it shall register the new Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.

M11 The Association shall have the power to instruct a Club to use a previous version of the Club Crest where in the reasonable opinion of The Association a Club has breached any of Rules M4 to M10.

Great stuff. 

[Hartleysbeard]

A quick scan of the rules also states the official club emblem must appear only once on the front of the shirt. Have they massively ballsed up here? Or am I misunderstanding the rules?

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Per the FA Handbook (https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/fa-handbook)...

REGISTRATION AND CHANGE OF CLUB CREST

M4 Each Club shall register its Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.
Guidance: This will ensure The Association can maintain an accurate record of Club Crests as a reference point to operate these Rules. Clubs should register any new Club Crest (including where there are minor changes which do not engage these Rules) to ensure The Association has an accurate record at all times.

M5 A Club Crest shall not be distasteful, threatening, abusive, indecent, insulting, discriminatory, ethically or morally offensive, or include any political or religious message, or include any form of advertising.

M6 A Club seeking to change its Club Crest shall not choose a design which would cause confusion with the existing Club Crest of another Club.

M7 The Club Crest shall comply with the Kit and Advertising Regulations.

M8 No Club shall make any material changes to its Club Crest without first undertaking a thorough and extensive consultation with its supporters.
Guidance: Clubs seeking to ensure they have undertaken a thorough and extensive consultation with supporters should undertake an independently run supporter poll to give weight to its proposal. The nature of such a poll will depend upon the circumstances of the Club in question but should include taking a poll of (where applicable); members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with
the FCA (in many cases, a group of club supporters more commonly referred to as a supporters’ trust will be registered as a Community Benefit Society), season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. Club Crests form an important part of the identity of a Club and changes can be an emotive issue for some supporters and lead to legitimate concerns being raised. 

These Rules apply to any material changes to any aspect of a Club Crest (e.g. changing a colour from blue to red, adding or deleting text, or adding new design features and/or deleting established design features). These Rules are not intended to apply to the types of small changes to a Club Crest which occur more regularly, such as making a colour slightly lighter or darker, or slightly increasing or decreasing the size of a font. Whilst there may often be a strong case for the modernisation of a Club Crest, given the prominence of a Club’s Crest on kits, promotional material, broadcast and other visual media, it is of vital importance that the views of supporters are given significant weight when deciding to make material changes.

It is noted that some Clubs mark anniversaries by introducing a club crest which draws on previous heritage but differs from that in current use by the Club. Whilst these Rules will still apply in such circumstances, Clubs will be given a greater margin of discretion with regard to a temporary change to a club crest of this nature provided that the change is for a maximum of one playing season.

M9 A Club must be in a position to evidence that the majority of its supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest prior to making any such change.
Guidance: In assessing whether or not the majority of a Club’s supporters are in favour of a material change to its Club Crest, The Association will give significant weight to the views of members of any Community Benefit Society formed for the benefit of the club’s supporters and registered with the FCA, season ticket holders, and any supporters who have attended a specific number of home matches in the previous season. For the avoidance of doubt, the views of a Club’s wider supporter base and/or membership shall not be disregarded for the purposes of any assessment by The Association.

M10 If a Club makes any material changes to its Club Crest then it shall register the new Club Crest with The Association in the form prescribed by The Association.

M11 The Association shall have the power to instruct a Club to use a previous version of the Club Crest where in the reasonable opinion of The Association a Club has breached any of Rules M4 to M10.

Thanks so much. I feel pretty stupid. I thought I'd combed through the FA Rules but must have missed this.

So I suspect that the Club don't think this comes under these rules as a) they'd argue they've just moved the Crest to the back of the neck, and b) it's possible it's just for one season and just on the third kit, so it's a "temporary" change, c) I assume they've not actually changed the Crest that is registered with the FA, and so they would argue that actually there is no change. "Club Crest" is defined as "the official club emblem used on the playing strip which is the recognised symbol of the club". Nothing about location there, and the Club Crest is on the nape of the neck.

As I said to @Kid in the Riot all rules I've seen - including these - clearly have an implied assumption that Clubs will use the same Crest on the "traditional" front of shirt position, and that Crest will be the registered one (bar small colour changes). Most rules account for one off changes for anniversaries or other celebrations, but there's never really a mention of a switch on a whole kit.

Seems the Club may have found a minor loophole. However, if Jon Lansdown is already bored of the Crest he redesigned 5 minutes ago and wants to replace it again, then he will need to have a consultation with fans.

Edited March 13, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[BasSavage88]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Thanks so much. I feel pretty stupid. I thought I'd combed through the FA Rules but must have missed this.

So I suspect that the Club don't think this comes under these rules as a) they'd argue they've just moved the Crest to the back of the neck, and b) it's possible it's just for one season and just on the third kit, so it's a "temporary" change, c) I assume they've not actually changed the Crest that is registered with the FA, and so they would argue that actually there is no change.

As I said to @Kid in the Riot all rules I've seen - including these - clearly have an implied assumption that Clubs will use the same Crest on the "traditional" front of shirt position, and that Crest will be the registered one (bar small colour changes). Most rules account for one off changes for anniversaries or other celebrations, but there's never really a mention of a switch on a whole kit.

Seems the Club may have found a minor loophole. However, if Jon Lansdown is already bored of the Crest he redesigned 5 minutes ago and wants to replace it again, then he will need to have a consultation with fans.

He also needs to use one he can copyright and isn't the first image of a robin on Google the lazy ***** 

[Agard Days Night]

Class. Well done all. 

[ExiledAjax]

10 minutes ago, Hartleysbeard said:

A quick scan of the rules also states the official club emblem must appear only once on the front of the shirt. Have they massively ballsed up here? Or am I misunderstanding the rules?

That's in the Kit and Advertising bit. I think you could read it as saying that the club emblem may appear only once on the front. Ie. Not twice. I don't think I can see anything that actually says it has to appear on the front.

But those same regs don't seem to allow for an alternative logo, they talk about sponsors and competition logos - but that's not what this is. It's getting late tbh and I'm reading on a phone, but it might be that there's a bit of a muck up here.

[The Fat Controller]

The club have gone out of their way to solve a problem that many fans have mentioned. 

Not enough shirt stock in the shop at Christmas? Problem solved!

[Offside]

I’ve never been keen on yellow as our away kit, but we’ve had it before so fair enough.

What’s really weird is the decision to use that new badge when the existing one is still in its infancy. And it looks awful. 

[Kid in the Riot]

It's completely unidentifiable as a Bristol City shirt. If you walked down the street wearing it nobody would have a ******* clue who you supported. 

[Street red]

1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

It's not the kit it's the badge.

[Tomo]

Reverse the badges and the shirt is passable albeit uninspiring. What a school boy error putting a 'flying pigeon' on the front

[David Brent]

1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

That’s your problem

[RedLionLad]

1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

It will always baffle me why any adult would care about how a football kit looks. 

Because…

[cidercity1987]

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's completely unidentifiable as a Bristol City shirt. If you walked down the street wearing it nobody would have a ******* clue who you supported. 

Pretty par for the course for a club who play in the most popular colour, have the same nonsense nickname as 2 of their local rivals and aren't even the first BCFC on Google 

[stephenkibby.]

Don't normally comment on the kit as i'm old and old school.

But that shirt looks like it's been worn by a amature club that's skink and it's coming out for a third season.

Has to be brighter Yellow. As for the badge, WTF.

[The Journalist]

27 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's completely unidentifiable as a Bristol City shirt. If you walked down the street wearing it nobody would have a ******* clue who you supported. 

This has genuinely irked me more than it should’ve - I just don’t get the thinking. How has nobody stepped in and stopped it happening? It’s so stupid on a commercial level, SO stupid. Second-rate kit supplier, second-rate branding.

Find me another top-level football club who have had four completely different badges on their shirts in four years!

Edited March 13, 2023 by The Journalist

[Magic Man]

Here is a good example of how a club can properly engage with its fans when it comes to branding and heritage… (the vid at the end of the article is worth a watch)

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues/16-20-january-2023/typographic-arsenal-stadium-artworks/?cmpid=dwnews_30307355&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=dw_daily&adg=8264804

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

57 minutes ago, Hartleysbeard said:

A quick scan of the rules also states the official club emblem must appear only once on the front of the shirt. Have they massively ballsed up here? Or am I misunderstanding the rules?

Doubt it. Everton have had a tower on their third shirt all season so it must be fine.

[ChippenhamRed]

7 minutes ago, Magic Man said:

Here is a good example of how a club can properly engage with its fans when it comes to branding and heritage… (the vid at the end of the article is worth a watch)

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues/16-20-january-2023/typographic-arsenal-stadium-artworks/?cmpid=dwnews_30307355&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=dw_daily&adg=8264804

 

I know I’ve said it already but I really don’t understand why the club doesn’t engage with fans on kit design. Especially when they’re making a completely unnecessary change to the badge that they must know will be controversial.

Who wins from NOT doing it? Nobody. The fans end up with a crap kit no one wants and the club makes less money.

I also find it odd that they’re using a different icon on one shirt, without any market research, having fairly recently introduced the new club badge. From a marketing perspective, all they’re doing is diluting the brand.