O'Neills - New Kit Supplier (Confirmed)

[SouthStand Sandwich]

17 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Clubs especially bristol city want their brand/kits to be seen as iconic and fashionable and have worked hard the last few years with hummel to ensure the kits and brand were just that. 

The reason people are rightly pissed off is they have thrown that out of the window by picking an uncool brand who have uncool designs and then on top of that the quality is shoddy and poor with new random logos all over the place.

Spot. On.

Just to think someone earlier on in this thread thought that O’Neills were the surfing manufacturer.. if only that were the case… what we have is an uncool brand, as the poster says, worn by a niche  sports league (the GAA) a few random lower league scots team, non-league outfits also Wycombe who were only too pleased to get rid of them … chosen by that leading fashionista, junior lansdown (see Bristol sport leisure wear for further evidence of his crimes)

TINPOT …. Remove him from any future design input.

[SouthStand Sandwich]

18 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

The majority of our fans probably care. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think a stance of "who cares?" would put you in the minority. Badges and kits are important to fans of almost every club. 

This isn't purely an issue of fashion as you seem to reduce it to. To think of it this way is, IMHO, rather naive.

The badge and kit of the club is arguably the most fundamental element of the club's identity. The badge is an emblem that, for many, represents one of their greatest passions in their life - their football club. Fans get tattoos of their football team's badge. Fans buy memorabilia featuring their football team's badge.

To remove the club's badge from the front of the kit is sacrilegious. It's like removing the crucifix from a church's alter. The badge represents the city, the club, the fanbase......fans want to see it on the front of their team's football kit. The best illustration of the importance this has to football fans? Go to most clubs in the country and ask fans what their main expectation of their players is. One of the most common answers you'll get is "I want to see players playing for the badge".

It's understandably a frustration for many fans that the main visual element of the club's identity is being tampered with (without consultation), and for no other reason than the fact that the owner's son likes designing things as a hobby. The associated drop in quality and professionalism that seems to have come with Jon Lansdown's tinkering adds further insult to injury.

Yes, apart from O’Neills and their shoddy gear.. the changing of the badge without consultation is also sacrilegious … spot on post again. 
 

Junior - are you listening?

need to create  a poll on this to get a real feel of fans views…

 

 

 

[Bris Red]

24 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

The majority of our fans probably care. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think a stance of "who cares?" would put you in the minority. Badges and kits are important to fans of almost every club. 

This isn't purely an issue of fashion as you seem to reduce it to. To think of it this way is, IMHO, rather naive.

The badge and kit of the club is arguably the most fundamental element of the club's identity. The badge is an emblem that, for many, represents one of their greatest passions in their life - their football club. Fans get tattoos of their football team's badge. Fans buy memorabilia featuring their football team's badge.

To remove the club's badge from the front of the kit is sacrilegious. It's like removing the crucifix from a church's alter. The badge represents the city, the club, the fanbase......fans want to see it on the front of their team's football kit. The best illustration of the importance this has to football fans? Go to most clubs in the country and ask fans what their main expectation of their players is. One of the most common answers you'll get is "I want to see players playing for the badge".

It's understandably a frustration for many fans that the main visual element of the club's identity is being tampered with (without consultation), and for no other reason than the fact that the owner's son likes designing things as a hobby. The associated drop in quality and professionalism that seems to have come with Jon Lansdown's tinkering adds further insult to injury.

Spot on. 

[handsofclay]

45 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Clubs especially bristol city want their brand/kits to be seen as iconic and fashionable and have worked hard the last few years with hummel to ensure the kits and brand were just that. 

The reason people are rightly pissed off is they have thrown that out of the window by picking an uncool brand who have uncool designs and then on top of that the quality is shoddy and poor with new random logos all over the place.

Fair points 

[glynriley]

On 15/07/2023 at 10:29, Olé said:

Jesus effing christ I hadn't seen that section.

This has finished me off now. Clipart we're so extraordinarily proud of we made a t-shirt with it on the front AND on the back. Because you can never have too many copies of the same image. This is all totally normal behaviour. I am convinced there's some imbecile sat at Ashton Gate using desktop publishing software, beaming proudly at every basic clipart layout they can come up with like a 4 year old at the end of art class. 

 

Surely nobody is buying that? Outside of Bristol ,and possibly only City fans, nobody is going to know that represents us. Just looks like you’re wearing a shit T-shirt with a naff bird on it. 

[handsofclay]

37 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

The majority of our fans probably care. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think a stance of "who cares?" would put you in the minority. Badges and kits are important to fans of almost every club. 

This isn't purely an issue of fashion as you seem to reduce it to. To think of it this way is, IMHO, rather naive.

The badge and kit of the club is arguably the most fundamental element of the club's identity. The badge is an emblem that, for many, represents one of their greatest passions in their life - their football club. Fans get tattoos of their football team's badge. Fans buy memorabilia featuring their football team's badge.

To remove the club's badge from the front of the kit is sacrilegious. It's like removing the crucifix from a church's alter. The badge represents the city, the club, the fanbase......fans want to see it on the front of their team's football kit. The best illustration of the importance this has to football fans? Go to most clubs in the country and ask fans what their main expectation of their players is. One of the most common answers you'll get is "I want to see players playing for the badge".

It's understandably a frustration for many fans that the main visual element of the club's identity is being tampered with (without consultation), and for no other reason than the fact that the owner's son likes designing things as a hobby. The associated drop in quality and professionalism that seems to have come with Jon Lansdown's tinkering adds further insult to injury.

You make some excellent points and one of the reasons I originally posted my views in a somewhat provocative manner was to stimulate debate and you have supplied a good argument.

Of course in my 53 years of attending Ashton Gate I have seen City in some kits that I simply haven't liked and worn a badge with 1897 displayed when 1894 was the foundation date (although 1887 if one follows the Bedminster/Southville line back) and I frequently argued the toss about it on here. Thankfully, that has been rectified by the much maligned Jon Lansdown. So by my own admission I haven't always practiced what I preach about putting up with whatever is churned out for us. 

[BCFCGav]

City posted a Twitter video at 5 on the dot and the away kit is surely due…

But it’s also a Sunday so they may well have just programmed the tweet to go live at 5.

Basically I’m saying nothing have a good Sunday all.

[tin]

The badge and the O’Neill’s deal are JL’s legacy.

The son of a billionaire putting his amateurish fingerprints on how the club appears to everyone. It’s tinpot and embarrassing in equal measure IMO.  

[ChippenhamRed]

On 15/07/2023 at 17:59, REDOXO said:

I couldn’t agree more. I haven’t bought one in years, so decided to get one along with my season ticket and my nephews season ticket (his was free and his seat was only about 60 quid)

Bad season to get one maybe, but as someone alluded the alternative is not having a good quality shirt, it’s not having the current City shirt at all. 

The alternative is having £50 still in your bank account.

[t_b]

Who has honestly bought this?

https://shop.bristol-sport.co.uk/bcfc/bcfclifestyle/all-lifestyle/all-lifestyle/1888_bristol-city-94-red-sweater-adult.html
 

Only now available in 2XL (as is the black

version). It makes us look like we are 29 years old. 

All this shit has to be print on demand right? It can’t be produced in advance. I got better quality gear from Cafepress back in the early 2000s!

[ChippenhamRed]

20 hours ago, handsofclay said:

Rubbish 

The 59 page thread consists of several fans making multiple posts (moans). As far as the majority of fans don't make me laugh. You are a HANDFUL of fans on social media. Next season at Ashton Gate see how many fans at the ground are wearing the new kit and then tell me it's the majority of fans. Christ, get a grip and stop over inflating your own importance. 

This forum is one of the most popular in the Championship, very well known amongst the fan base, open to all, and with thousands of registered users.

It’s a very decent sample size and can reasonably be considered to represent the consensus view of the wider fan base. There is a very clear consensus opinion amongst the fans that the new kits are of poor quality, generally unpopular and use a splat Robin design that a large majority hate. In contrast, the consensus opinion on the Hummel kits was clearly very favourable.

Inevitably there will be a substantial number of fans wearing the new kit next season. But that’s because many will buy it anyway. However, the reaction here - as well as on social media like twitter and Facebook - tells me the club would have sold a lot more had they stuck with Hummel or picked a reputable manufacturer capable of producing good quality kit. And they will also have lost out on a lot of merchandise sales, which will be a lot more dependent on the quality and styling than a replica shirt that is a default purchase for many.

You might not care, but many do, and many understand the importance of the club representing itself in the best possible fashion when it is constantly having to compete with the Premier League and other forms of entertainment.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Found one with another questionabe collar, new Millwall from Errea (sorry if who is wearing it triggers anyone!)

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

The alternative is having £50 still in your bank account.

Like you say in another post People are going to buy it anyway!

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, t_b said:

Who has honestly bought this?

https://shop.bristol-sport.co.uk/bcfc/bcfclifestyle/all-lifestyle/all-lifestyle/1888_bristol-city-94-red-sweater-adult.html
 

Only now available in 2XL (as is the black

version). It makes us look like we are 29 years old. 

All this shit has to be print on demand right? It can’t be produced in advance. I got better quality gear from Cafepress back in the early 2000s!

I'm sure this ISN'T what Willis was talkin' about.

Because Arnold already had one.

 

[ExiledAjax]

9 hours ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

Found one with another questionabe collar, new Millwall from Errea (sorry if who is wearing it triggers anyone!)

It's a big collar but at least it fits him. Flush to the skin rather than ours that seems to float somewhere between the clavicle and ear.

[IAmNick]

I definitely put myself in the group who don't really give a shit about the kit, and to be honest when people post pics on here and say "Wow that one's amazing" or "What a load of crap that is" they all kind of look the same to me and I'd struggle to tell which was which!

That said, I think I actually don't care about the kit unless it looks bad - and this one does look pretty bad even to me because of that collar. It's comical.

Most of the other stuff they offer always looks naff to me. I bought a plain red t-shirt and polo shirt a few years back with a version of the badge on it, I have a city OTIB hat from a fanzine seller... I mostly just want normal-ish looking clothes with a smallish but recognisable City reference on them personally (not that splatted robin!), then I might buy and wear them.

Edited July 17, 2023 by IAmNick

[RedRoss]

3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I definitely put myself in the group who don't really give a shit about the kit, and to be honest when people post pics on here and say "Wow that one's amazing" or "What a load of crap that is" they all kind of look the same to me and I'd struggle to tell which was which!

That said, I think I actually don't care about the kit unless it looks bad - and this one does look pretty bad even to me because of that collar. It's comical.

Most of the other stuff they offer always looks naff to me. I bought a plain red t-shirt and polo shirt a few years back with a version of the badge on it, I have a city OTIB hat from a fanzine seller... I mostly just want normal-ish looking clothes with a smallish but recognisable City reference on them personally (not that splatted robin!), then I might buy and wear them.

Same I never usually understand or care about our kit.. however that collar is soo bad its laughable.

 

[ExiledAjax]

47 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I definitely put myself in the group who don't really give a shit about the kit, and to be honest when people post pics on here and say "Wow that one's amazing" or "What a load of crap that is" they all kind of look the same to me and I'd struggle to tell which was which!

That said, I think I actually don't care about the kit unless it looks bad - and this one does look pretty bad even to me because of that collar. It's comical.

Most of the other stuff they offer always looks naff to me. I bought a plain red t-shirt and polo shirt a few years back with a version of the badge on it, I have a city OTIB hat from a fanzine seller... I mostly just want normal-ish looking clothes with a smallish but recognisable City reference on them personally (not that splatted robin!), then I might buy and wear them.

Yeh, I don't care about the precise design or the proportion of red and white.

But I care about the badge being used properly, I care about not having our lads look like a bunch of 16th century ruff-wearing boys, and I care about fans being sold a product that is vaguely worth the £60 they're asked to spend. I also car about the club speaking to fans about any major changes such as new badges, new colours, and other items. Doesn't always need to be prior consultation, but at least explain yourself when you do something a bit left field.

I don't buy many shirts, but I did get last season's training kit for the gym. It's great and has lasted really well.

[IAmNick]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Yeh, I don't care about the precise design or the proportion of red and white.

But I care about the badge being used properly, I care about not having our lads look like a bunch of 16th century ruff-wearing boys, and I care about fans being sold a product that is vaguely worth the £60 they're asked to spend. I also car about the club speaking to fans about any major changes such as new badges, new colours, and other items. Doesn't always need to be prior consultation, but at least explain yourself when you do something a bit left field.

I don't buy many shirts, but I did get last season's training kit for the gym. It's great and has lasted really well.

Agreed - I guess two issues have unfortunately happened to coincide here: The weird new branding stuff, and the change in supplier to what seems to be an inferior one.

I don't know if they're related, it could be coincidence. Or perhaps a more established brand/designers would push back more and act as consultants for the club as well as just people who put logos they get sent on a top. Who knows?

Either way the club should be a bit more aware when they're messing with the iconography at anything more than a pretty superficial level.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

Agreed - I guess two issues have unfortunately happened to coincide here: The weird new branding stuff, and the change in supplier to what seems to be an inferior one.

I don't know if they're related, it could be coincidence. Or perhaps a more established brand/designers would push back more and act as consultants for the club as well as just people who put logos they get sent on a top. Who knows?

Either way the club should be a bit more aware when they're messing with the iconography at anything more than a pretty superficial level.

Yes, it's a bit of a perfect storm from a kit point of view. Dramatically going from a highly regarded kit partner to an unknown - to most fans - manufacturer. Simultaneously messing around with logos/badges/crests. A perceived deterioration in quality. Blue. All on the back of established wariness around kit (see the comic sans training kit, the mongrel 125th anniversary kit). It's a lot for people to process.

I also think there's an issue of perception. I've spoken to the club and I get the impression that they don't think the splat Robin is "messing with the iconography" as you put it. They seemed genuinely surprised at the idea that they might have consulted with fans over it.

[Henry]

Still silence from the SC&T ( @Dollymarie @thatcham red @shahanshahan) and our SLO @JerrySLO.

[shahanshahan]

57 minutes ago, Henry said:

Still silence from the SC&T ( @Dollymarie @thatcham red @shahanshahan) and our SLO @JerrySLO.

Hi, not all of us are personally regularly active on OTIB, so apologies if there is something you think has been missed. If there is something you'd like to raise, please send an email to info@bristolcitysupporters.org

You and everyone else is welcome to our monthly board meetings

[Henry]

Just now, shahanshahan said:

Hi, not all of us are personally regularly active on OTIB, so apologies if there is something you think has been missed. If there is something you'd like to raise, please send an email to info@bristolcitysupporters.org

You and everyone else is welcome to our monthly board meetings

Really?

[frenchred]

1 hour ago, shahanshahan said:

Hi, not all of us are personally regularly active on OTIB, so apologies if there is something you think has been missed. If there is something you'd like to raise, please send an email to info@bristolcitysupporters.org

You and everyone else is welcome to our monthly board meetings

That's a kop out if ever I heard one!

[Sir Geoff]

2 hours ago, shahanshahan said:

Hi, not all of us are personally regularly active on OTIB, so apologies if there is something you think has been missed. If there is something you'd like to raise, please send an email to info@bristolcitysupporters.org

You and everyone else is welcome to our monthly board meetings

There are 61 pages complaining about O Neils and the splat Robin, how could anyone have missed it. The SC+T should have been all over it from the beginning asking the club for an explanation for the change in badge and poor quality kit being supplied to fans. The white paper / fan led review covers badge and kit colour changes and urges clubs to consult with fans before changes are made. Questions should have been asked months ago by the SC+T. Your post is a cop out and sounds like it came from someone at the club. Sorry to pick on you but you raised your head above the parapet, other sc+t members are on here and have been asked to raise it but so far diddly squat.

[Ska Junkie]

Where's our away kit????

I expected it to be unveiled when Knight signed tbh. Maybe they're waiting for something?

[phantom]

34 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Where's our away kit????

I expected it to be unveiled when Knight signed tbh. Maybe they're waiting for something?

Delay with the crayons being sent to Botswana so still waiting on the latest screw up of a design

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

There are 61 pages complaining about O Neils and the splat Robin, how could anyone have missed it. The SC+T should have been all over it from the beginning asking the club for an explanation for the change in badge and poor quality kit being supplied to fans. The white paper / fan led review covers badge and kit colour changes and urges clubs to consult with fans before changes are made. Questions should have been asked months ago by the SC+T. Your post is a cop out and sounds like it came from someone at the club. Sorry to pick on you but you raised your head above the parapet, other sc+t members are on here and have been asked to raise it but so far diddly squat.

In those 61 pages you'll see that I have posted that I did contact the club when "splat" was revealed. This was not "official" SC&T communication though, so it was not for me to disclose or announce publicly on their behalf. I contacted the Club, and I happen to be an SC&T member (not a board member but a regular £12 a year bog-standard member) of the SC&T. I let the SC&T know about that contact and what came of it.

In fact I contacted the FA, EFL, and FSA and the EFL helped to get my concerns in front of the Club.

The result of that was the two line  "explanation" of the reasoning behind "splat" that came in the Club's announcement that the third kit was available for sale. I also got told during those conversations that the Club recognised that the reveal of "splat" was less than perfect and that they could have communicated it in a better way. I've since told the Club that the "explanation" was in my opinion (which I checked with other on here) not good enough. I've not heard back from that yet.

I don't know what you and others like @Henry want the SC&T to do but as always I'll say that if you want them to have effective weight with the Club, and if you want to influence what they fight for, what they care about, and how to do it, then it's very very very easy to join for £12 a year and have your say and give your input.

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

In those 61 pages you'll see that I have posted that I did contact the club when "splat" was revealed. This was not "official" SC&T communication though, so it was not for me to disclose or announce publicly on their behalf. I contacted the Club, and I happen to be an SC&T member (not a board member but a regular £12 a year bog-standard member) of the SC&T. I let the SC&T know about that contact and what came of it.

In fact I contacted the FA, EFL, and FSA and the EFL helped to get my concerns in front of the Club.

The result of that was the two line  "explanation" of the reasoning behind "splat" that came in the Club's announcement that the third kit was available for sale. I also got told during those conversations that the Club recognised that the reveal of "splat" was less than perfect and that they could have communicated it in a better way. I've since told the Club that the "explanation" was in my opinion (which I checked with other on here) not good enough. I've not heard back from that yet.

I don't know what you and others like @Henry want the SC&T to do but as always I'll say that if you want them to have effective weight with the Club, and if you want to influence what they fight for, what they care about, and how to do it, then it's very very very easy to join for £12 a year and have your say and give your input.

What really is the point of joining when the club so obviously do not recognise or have dialogue with them. They do not respect the fan base, ride rough shod over everyone and pay no real attention to the SC&t.

[Henry]

13 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

In those 61 pages you'll see that I have posted that I did contact the club when "splat" was revealed. This was not "official" SC&T communication though, so it was not for me to disclose or announce publicly on their behalf. I contacted the Club, and I happen to be an SC&T member (not a board member but a regular £12 a year bog-standard member) of the SC&T. I let the SC&T know about that contact and what came of it.

In fact I contacted the FA, EFL, and FSA and the EFL helped to get my concerns in front of the Club.

The result of that was the two line  "explanation" of the reasoning behind "splat" that came in the Club's announcement that the third kit was available for sale. I also got told during those conversations that the Club recognised that the reveal of "splat" was less than perfect and that they could have communicated it in a better way. I've since told the Club that the "explanation" was in my opinion (which I checked with other on here) not good enough. I've not heard back from that yet.

I don't know what you and others like @Henry want the SC&T to do but as always I'll say that if you want them to have effective weight with the Club, and if you want to influence what they fight for, what they care about, and how to do it, then it's very very very easy to join for £12 a year and have your say and give your input.

I admire your efforts in your voice. I’ll keep my £12 thanks.

I would expect the trust to be putting pressure on the club and issuing a statement representing fans view and what is being done about it.

There is enough evidence out there regarding fans views on the kit quality and badge change.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Where's our away kit????

I expected it to be unveiled when Knight signed tbh. Maybe they're waiting for something?

It's gonna be blue. The only reason surely for the delay, so they can bury the news amongst other news. Wait for it to be announced the same day Scott is sold. No one will mention it as all the talk and news will be focused elsewhere 

[Ska Junkie]

8 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

It's gonna be blue. The only reason surely for the delay, so they can bury the news amongst other news. Wait for it to be announced the same day Scott is sold. No one will mention it as all the talk and news will be focused elsewhere 

Judging by the training gear I think you may be right.

[ExiledAjax]

26 minutes ago, frenchred said:

What really is the point of joining when the club so obviously do not recognise or have dialogue with them. They do not respect the fan base, ride rough shod over everyone and pay no real attention to the SC&t.

Sorry but in my opinion this is a lazy opinion akin to "why bother to vote, politicians just ignore us" or "why bother to get up in the morning when I'll only go to bed again in a few hours".

A) everyone that joins increases the weight of the SC&T and so increases the likelihood that the Club listen to them;

B) what's the alternative? Ad hoc "protests" or getting the Senior Reds to sort things out? Won't happen either; 

C) it's very hard to get the Club to listen to anyone. Legally they don't have to. Legally they can do everything you say they do - ride rough shod over everyone and pay no real attention to the SC&T. They can also do all of that if a bunch of fans email them or even turn up at the gates with pitchforks.

17 minutes ago, Henry said:

I admire your efforts in your voice. I’ll keep my £12 thanks.

I would expect the trust to be putting pressure on the club and issuing a statement representing fans view and what is being done about it.

There is enough evidence out there regarding fans views on the kit quality and badge change.

Thanks. Per their website you can contact the Supporters Club & Trust via any of the following means:

E-mail us at info@bristolcitysupporters.org

Write to us at:

B C S C T

PO BOX 3296

Bristol BS3 9HD

You can also interact with us via social media:

Twitter: @BristolCitySCT

Facebook: Bristol City Supporters Club & Trust

Note that "@ us on OTIB" is not an official method of contact.

Edited July 17, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[lenred]

23 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Sorry but in my opinion this is a lazy opinion akin to "why bother to vote, politicians just ignore us" or "why bother to get up in the morning when I'll only go to bed again in a few hours".

A) everyone that joins increases the weight of the SC&T and so increases the likelihood that the Club listen to them;

B) what's the alternative? Ad hoc "protests" or getting the Senior Reds to sort things out? Won't happen either; 

C) it's very hard to get the Club to listen to anyone. Legally they don't have to. Legally they can do everything you say they do - ride rough shod over everyone and pay no real attention to the SC&T. They can also do all of that if a bunch of fans email them or even turn up at the gates with pitchforks.

Thanks. Per their website you can contact the Supporters Club & Trust via any of the following means:

E-mail us at info@bristolcitysupporters.org

Write to us at:

B C S C T

PO BOX 3296

Bristol BS3 9HD

You can also interact with us via social media:

Twitter: @BristolCitySCT

Facebook: Bristol City Supporters Club & Trust

Note that "@ us on OTIB" is not an official method of contact.

Dont wish to turn this into a thread about leadership at the club, but I think point C about covers it.   I don’t think this ownership will ever listen to its supporters however many are signed up to whatever group - it’s just not in their nature.   See the ‘my club I’ll do what I want’ rant from Lansdown Senior during the Lee Johnson losing streak for confirmation of what they think of us when we dare raise our heads in disagreement with any of their decisions.   They don’t care what we think.   City is their toy and they’ll play with it as they wish.  

[The Journalist]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

In those 61 pages you'll see that I have posted that I did contact the club when "splat" was revealed. This was not "official" SC&T communication though, so it was not for me to disclose or announce publicly on their behalf. I contacted the Club, and I happen to be an SC&T member (not a board member but a regular £12 a year bog-standard member) of the SC&T. I let the SC&T know about that contact and what came of it.

In fact I contacted the FA, EFL, and FSA and the EFL helped to get my concerns in front of the Club.

The result of that was the two line  "explanation" of the reasoning behind "splat" that came in the Club's announcement that the third kit was available for sale. I also got told during those conversations that the Club recognised that the reveal of "splat" was less than perfect and that they could have communicated it in a better way. I've since told the Club that the "explanation" was in my opinion (which I checked with other on here) not good enough. I've not heard back from that yet.

I don't know what you and others like @Henry want the SC&T to do but as always I'll say that if you want them to have effective weight with the Club, and if you want to influence what they fight for, what they care about, and how to do it, then it's very very very easy to join for £12 a year and have your say and give your input.

Well done you for contacting all of the above off your own back - it's admirable that you went to those lengths and I personally appreciate the effort you went to.

I would push back on one point, though, and I guess goes back to the initial concern raised by @Sir Geoff - if your contact was just as a concerned fan and not an "official" SC&T communication - where was that communication? Where's the leadership of the SC&T? Why aren't they driving an agenda on this? And why would I join for £12 a month (where does that go, by the way?) if those representing me aren't doing that?

We're obviously a smaller club than Leeds, with a much smaller fan base, but when you look at the absolute stink they kicked up over their proposed change of badge (it became a pretty big national sports news story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43157773) it shows what can be done. I refuse to believe that our current ownership is less engaged than the Leeds board at that time, who were notoriously out of the tune with the supporters!

A huge number of fans are pretty angry that the club have - without notice - taken a stock image off Getty and turned it into a new club crest that sits on one of our shirts, all over our training wear and on the wall of the training ground. And the absolute least the SC&T should be doing, in my opinion, is driving that feeling into the local press to apply wider pressure on the club.

Am I going over the top with this view? That's not a rhetorical question - completely happy if people want to tell me I'm misreading the room. The above is how I feel, but not necessarily everyone.

And, to add, while I'm saying this in reply to you, @ExiledAjax, these are by no means questions I'm expecting you to answer. You've done a lot more than the rest of us to hold the club to account as a lone fan.

Instinctively, I just feel like if the SC&T aren't going to represent the fanbase on a topic like this what's the actual point in them?

And, for what it's worth, without wishing to sound all Alastair Campbell, if anyone at the SC&T wants to come to me for help in getting this type of messaging a) across the club and b) into the media I'd love to help. I'm sure there'll be plenty like me who are the same.

(Sorry for turning all ranty!).

Edited July 17, 2023 by The Journalist

[frenchred]

11 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

Well done you for contacting all of the above off your own back - it's admirable that you went to those lengths and I personally appreciate the effort you went to.

I would push back on one point, though, and I guess goes back to the initial concern raised by @Sir Geoff - if your contact was just as a concerned fan and not an "official" SC&T communication - where was that communication? Where's the leadership of the SC&T? Why aren't they driving an agenda on this? And why would I join for £12 a month (where does that go, by the way?) if those representing me aren't doing that?

We're obviously a smaller club than Leeds, with a much smaller fan base, but when you look at the absolute stink they kicked up over their proposed change of badge (it became a pretty big national sports news story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43157773) it shows what can be done. I refuse to believe that our current ownership is less engaged than the Leeds board at that time, who were notoriously out of the tune with the supporters!

A huge number of fans are pretty angry that the club have - without notice - taken a stock image off Getty and turned it into a new club crest that sits on one of our shirts, all over our training wear and on the wall of the training ground. And the absolute least the SC&T should be doing, in my opinion, is driving that feeling into the local press to apply wider pressure on the club.

Am I going over the top with this view? That's not a rhetorical question - completely happy if people want to tell me I'm misreading the room. The above is how I feel, but not necessarily everyone.

And, to add, while I'm saying this in reply to you, @ExiledAjax, these are by no means questions I'm expecting you to answer. You've done a lot more than the rest of us to hold the club to account as a lone fan.

Instinctively, I just feel like if the SC&T aren't going to represent the fanbase on a topic like this what's the actual point in them?

And, for what it's worth, without wishing to sound all Alastair Campbell, if anyone at the SC&T wants to come to me for help in getting this type of messaging a) across the club and b) into the media I'd love to help. I'm sure there'll be plenty like me who are the same.

(Sorry for turning all ranty!).

Very well said and certainly my feelings as well

I just don't see the SC & T doing enough for the fans to entice more to join

[Bristol Rob]

I won't quote @The Journalist as it was a long post, but I think SCAT are doing what they can against the backdrop of a club that don't really care what they offer.

Remember when we had the trust (aim to be share holders and get a seat on the board), the fans parliament, the senior reds AND a supporters club?

By trying to be all things to all groups you would have hoped that both the club and the fans group could maybe have achieved a bit more, but if all SCAT can do is react to club decisions rather than being part of the decision making process they are on a hiding to nothing.

If I have one bugbear with SCAT, is that the minutes seem to be written in Haiku with actions points taken away and NEVER closed or updated. Add to the fact a lot of the website isn't mobile friendly and it's one area that could be improved, but that's admin rather than performance.

As for our SLO, those who reach out to Jerry always report back positively, but it does appear to be very much as an employee of the club, rather than a conduit between seeking views of a wider group of unaffiliated fans and the club.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

What really is the point of joining when the club so obviously do not recognise or have dialogue with them. They do not respect the fan base, ride rough shod over everyone and pay no real attention to the SC&t.

 

1 hour ago, Henry said:

I admire your efforts in your voice. I’ll keep my £12 thanks.

I would expect the trust to be putting pressure on the club and issuing a statement representing fans view and what is being done about it.

There is enough evidence out there regarding fans views on the kit quality and badge change.

So you both expect the SC&T to have done more but neither of you are prepared to join and boost numbers? 

[shahanshahan]

Hoping that this thread can indeed return to its original discussion point, but -  am speaking personally here - just to advise that the SC&T does have regular structured dialogue meetings with the club - especially since the MOU was signed with the club back in 2021. I am not involved in these particular meetings (my board member title is City Women Fans Representative & so my role is more on that side of the club) but rest assured that queries are being raised, especially following on from the Fan Led Review report (which would make sure that clubs don't recklessly make extreme changes such as change of colours or permanent badge without any consultation.

Everyone on the board is a volunteer (myself included) so I apologise if it feels like communication from ourselves is not always ever-present - or that it doesn't appear when some want it to be, especially on here. Communication is usually done via the website, social media or those that have signed up to the email list.

If anyone has any questions or other feedback, the best method is to email info@bristolcitysupporters.org

Anyway (as I'm sure I've said before) - I'm not a fan of the third shirt, and am not planning on buying it. I hope the away shirt is better.
Am I disappointed in the different badge being used on the front of the third shirt? Yes
Did I get the home shirt? Yes.

The SC&T doesn't get consultation in regards to kit design, but did raise concerns about the clashes of certain kit colours affecting colourblind people a while ago

[frenchred]

Just now, phantom said:

 

So you both expect the SC&T to have done more but neither of you are prepared to join and boost numbers? 

I would have expected them to have done something and made it public, we can't all join!

[ExiledAjax]

@The Journalist @frenchred @Bristol Rob thanks for all your points.

@The Journalist thanks for your kind words as well. Yes the legal power to ignore non-voting shareholders is at the heart of everything. Hence my very vocal support and other work I do for Fair Game - part of which is to try and ultimately get all clubs to be required to issue a golden share. Regulator, distributions, arguments, government etc. All fun and games but BCFC's attitude is "we'll wait under were told to do that thank you very much". Short-sighted and cowardly in my opinion, but I'm not in the boardroom or on the register of members.

Of course the SC&T should not be immune from criticism and I know that the guys that run it are always keen to improve the offering. It's volunteer run and led and everyone involved has full time jobs and family lives. Going up against a £30m business owned by a billionaire isn't easy, but they do make an effort. Maybe that's just word to some but I know they will always listen to a City fan with something to say - that's all I am after all.

I will just say that it's a fine line to tread between being listened to at all and being listened to a bit. It also very much depends on who is working at the Club. Under each of the last few CEOs there have been... different approaches shall we say. Some doors are more open than others. The current one ..it's ajar.

As I say, you can speak to these people, I know the a SC&T has a history longer than mine but in it's current guise I have found it useful, approachable, open and honest. 

Could the website improve - yes. Could minutes improve - yes. Could PR improve - probably. But personally I believe the way to get those changes is to support rather than attack. 

@shahanshahan I hope I've not misrepresented the SC&T in anyway.

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

I would have expected them to have done something and made it public, we can't all join!

We literally can all join.

I'll leave it there as this thread is really for kit chat. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I would have expected them to have done something and made it public, we can't all join!

But if everyone sat back criticising and didn't join and do something about it where would we all be? 

[frenchred]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

But if everyone sat back criticising and didn't join and do something about it where would we all be? 

In my probably overly critical view, in the same boat as we are now?

[The Journalist]

Appreciate the replies @Bristol Rob @shahanshahan and @ExiledAjax - believe it or not, it wasn't really my intention to turn this into a SC&T-bashing exercise before I started typing so apologies for that.

I completely understand the club aren't necessarily as easy to deal with as they once were. That's pretty common place as clubs become more corporate and distant from the fans, so I have some sympathy. It must feel like you're shouting at the rain for it to stop sometimes.

All that said, there are ways of communicating with the club that don't involve directly communicating, of course. Over a topic as emotive and sensitive as a club badge it's important to know there are ways of getting messages across that can make life much more uncomfortable for them. You shouldn't be afraid to take that route - it's really important to us. You should be capable of doing that, in my opinion.

There's always a way, however aloof they are. And, like I say, I'm always happy to help with that sort of thing (and even chuck my £12 in!). I'm a DM away!

Anyway - sorry for absolutely derailing this thread. My fault. Let's get back to the kit... it's shit innit?

[Bristol Rob]

Just now, phantom said:

But if everyone sat back criticising and didn't join and do something about it where would we all be? 

Maybe it's time for SCAT to have a relaunch?

I would guess outside of this forum, very few people know what they could do, have done or what their aims are.

We have been told that we are welcome to join their meetings, but there isn't any invitation to table any agenda items and we don't get asked if there is anything we would like raised, but that is probably just the way things have always been rather than something that is done deliberately.

With wider social media reaches now (including podcasts), they might be able to attract a new group of supporters, and if not for SCAT then maybe the Senior Reds could bring in some new members.

No easy answer as everyone who contributes is doing this in their free time.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, The Journalist said:

it's shit innit?

It really ******* is. As is all the Comms on it from the Club.

[glynriley]

8 minutes ago, shahanshahan said:

Hoping that this thread can indeed return to its original discussion point, but -  am speaking personally here - just to advise that the SC&T does have regular structured dialogue meetings with the club - especially since the MOU was signed with the club back in 2021. I am not involved in these particular meetings (my board member title is City Women Fans Representative & so my role is more on that side of the club) but rest assured that queries are being raised, especially following on from the Fan Led Review report (which would make sure that clubs don't recklessly make extreme changes such as change of colours or permanent badge without any consultation.

Everyone on the board is a volunteer (myself included) so I apologise if it feels like communication from ourselves is not always ever-present - or that it doesn't appear when some want it to be, especially on here. Communication is usually done via the website, social media or those that have signed up to the email list.

If anyone has any questions or other feedback, the best method is to email info@bristolcitysupporters.org

Anyway (as I'm sure I've said before) - I'm not a fan of the third shirt, and am not planning on buying it. I hope the away shirt is better.
Am I disappointed in the different badge being used on the front of the third shirt? Yes
Did I get the home shirt? Yes.

The SC&T doesn't get consultation in regards to kit design, but did raise concerns about the clashes of certain kit colours affecting colourblind people a while ago

The club will:

2) Use the structured dialogue format to consult about significant decisions such as any permanent ground move, change of club badge or substantial change to club colours.

This forms part of the MOU. I’d say the club have reneged on the deal already. 

[phantom]

Just now, Bristol Rob said:

Maybe it's time for SCAT to have a relaunch?

I would guess outside of this forum, very few people know what they could do, have done or what their aims are.

We have been told that we are welcome to join their meetings, but there isn't any invitation to table any agenda items and we don't get asked if there is anything we would like raised, but that is probably just the way things have always been rather than something that is done deliberately.

With wider social media reaches now (including podcasts), they might be able to attract a new group of supporters, and if not for SCAT then maybe the Senior Reds could bring in some new members.

No easy answer as everyone who contributes is doing this in their free time.

That's not true a post is put on OTIB and twitter every month advising when the upcoming meeting is, how to join and how to raise AOB 

As individuals we have to each take some responsibility for taking initiative to attend. 

I'm intrigued by @The JournalistJournalist you are clearly passionate about this topic why don't you offer your help?

Obviously too late for this kit fiasco and I am struggling to see why people are pointing the finger at the SC&T 

[Bristol Rob]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

That's not true a post is put on OTIB and twitter every month advising when the upcoming meeting is, how to join and how to raise AOB 

As individuals we have to each take some responsibility for taking initiative to attend. 

I'm intrigued by @The JournalistJournalist you are clearly passionate about this topic why don't you offer your help?

Obviously too late for this kit fiasco and I am struggling to see why people are pointing the finger at the SC&T 

I hadn't seen that there was an opportunity to table a topic for discussion, so I've clearly missed that.

[The Journalist]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

I'm intrigued by @The JournalistJournalist you are clearly passionate about this topic why don't you offer your help?

Obviously too late for this kit fiasco and I am struggling to see why people are pointing the finger at the SC&T 

Not much to be intrigued by - I literally have offered to help. Twice. I think you're picking at the wrong person there.

And it's not necessarily too late. Too late to get the kits changed, obviously, but not too late to make life a bit more uncomfortable for the club over it (again, though, I can't stress enough that's only my personal view - I'm not trying to speak on behalf of anyone else).

[phantom]

2 minutes ago, The Journalist said:

Not much to be intrigued by - I literally have offered to help. Twice. I think you're picking at the wrong person there.

And it's not necessarily too late. Too late to get the kits changed, obviously, but not too late to make life a bit more uncomfortable for the club over it (again, though, I can't stress enough that's only my personal view - I'm not trying to speak on behalf of anyone else).

Certainly not picking on yourself, I'm just surprised someone as passionate about yourself that you are not more actively involved 

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I hadn't seen that there was an opportunity to table a topic for discussion, so I've clearly missed that.

Just for a heads up the next meeting is currently scheduled for Wednesday 2nd August 

[elhombrecito]

3 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

I mean, really? Absolute shambles. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Heads need to roll over this in my opinion. It has been a monumental f up. For too long we have been too cosy off of the field and that's what leads to absolute shite like this. Complacency. If we want to be premier league, then we need premier league members of staff who out perform their roles. 

[phantom]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Heads need to roll over this in my opinion. It has been a monumental f up. For too long we have been too cosy off of the field and that's what leads to absolute shite like this. Complacency. If we want to be premier league, then we need premier league members of staff who out perform their roles. 

Realistically the ONLY way the club will take notice is if people don't buy it 

But sadly we all know that we could bring a strip out in blue and white quarters and a selection of supporters would buy it 

Mind you the club are sneaky in giving away the kids shirt, I bet those numbers get included in sales figures to cloud the situation 

[Bris Red]

9 minutes ago, phantom said:

Realistically the ONLY way the club will take notice is if people don't buy it 

But sadly we all know that we could bring a strip out in blue and white quarters and a selection of supporters would buy it 

Mind you the club are sneaky in giving away the kids shirt, I bet those numbers get included in sales figures to cloud the situation 

To be honest i would be absolutely shocked if the club say in 4/5 months time aren’t down on sales in comparison to the last few years.
 

As you said you will always get a hardcore of fans that will buy what ever shite the club dish out and more fool them, but I genuinely think there are thousands of supporters like myself that purchase items on look and quality that won’t be spending a penny this season.

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Bris Red

[Supersonic Robin]

2 hours ago, The Journalist said:

We're obviously a smaller club than Leeds, with a much smaller fan base, but when you look at the absolute stink they kicked up over their proposed change of badge (it became a pretty big national sports news story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43157773) it shows what can be done. I refuse to believe that our current ownership is less engaged than the Leeds board at that time, who were notoriously out of the tune with the supporters!

A huge number of fans are pretty angry that the club have - without notice - taken a stock image off Getty and turned it into a new club crest that sits on one of our shirts, all over our training wear and on the wall of the training ground. And the absolute least the SC&T should be doing, in my opinion, is driving that feeling into the local press to apply wider pressure on the club.

Am I going over the top with this view? That's not a rhetorical question - completely happy if people want to tell me I'm misreading the room. The above is how I feel, but not necessarily everyone.

Good example re Leeds.

FWIW, I don't think you're going over the top with it at all.

As I said on a previous post, I think the reaction to this would be much more dramatic if we happened to have a foreign owner. Can you imagine the uproar if the son of our new Saudi Arabian owner, Sheikh Muhammed Al-Lansdown, had randomly changed the badge on one of our kits to a picture from google images with no fan consultation? It would probably make news across the EFL, with the classic narrative of 'dodgy foreign owner dicking around with a club's identity'. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

53 minutes ago, phantom said:

Realistically the ONLY way the club will take notice is if people don't buy it 

But sadly we all know that we could bring a strip out in blue and white quarters and a selection of supporters would buy it 

Mind you the club are sneaky in giving away the kids shirt, I bet those numbers get included in sales figures to cloud the situation 

I've not even redeemed my child's free shirt yet and I certainly won't be buying either the home or the 3rd shirt for myself. 

[Blagdon Mike]

I am a SC&T board member and moreover I write the minutes!

I am afraid I do not visit OTIB a lot because of my involvement not only with SC&T but also Local History Society, Parish Council and latterly the matchday programme.  I will start a new topic about the programme shortly - you will understand WHY then.  Having been alerted to this topic, I have read it all through before entering the fray:

The Club launched the new kit without any discussion or warning of any sort with the SC&T.  It does go against provisions of the Fans Led Review recommendations but more importantly against the Memorandum of Understanding SIGNED BY SC&T AND BCFC when Richard Gould was CEO.  We have gone back to the Club over this issue but I am afraid it is all done and dusted.  I can understand contributors being disappointed we did not make a public fuss over the issue; we did not think that was the way forward.  What prompted the new bird design - looking like anything but a robin - is a mystery.  Up to that point the Club had been adamant in using the new Robin badge.

I think we need to be seen more as a campaigning group.  We DO publish our meetings and since being online we have had a take-up that we did not get previously with traditional face to face meetings.  So there has been an improvement and we are sticking with online meetings as a result.  I would say the minutes are in a normal format - I have done them for several other organisations - and the ACTIONS are clearly listed and progress on them is reported at the next meeting.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER TO ATTEND MEETINGS - if you are interested they are on the first Wednesday each month and the link is available from me via info@bristolcitysupporters.org.

I think many OTIB contributors could provide a refreshing point of view.

We look forward to seeing you..

[frenchred]

18 minutes ago, Blagdon Mike said:

I am a SC&T board member and moreover I write the minutes!

I am afraid I do not visit OTIB a lot because of my involvement not only with SC&T but also Local History Society, Parish Council and latterly the matchday programme.  I will start a new topic about the programme shortly - you will understand WHY then.  Having been alerted to this topic, I have read it all through before entering the fray:

The Club launched the new kit without any discussion or warning of any sort with the SC&T.  It does go against provisions of the Fans Led Review recommendations but more importantly against the Memorandum of Understanding SIGNED BY SC&T AND BCFC when Richard Gould was CEO.  We have gone back to the Club over this issue but I am afraid it is all done and dusted.  I can understand contributors being disappointed we did not make a public fuss over the issue; we did not think that was the way forward.  What prompted the new bird design - looking like anything but a robin - is a mystery.  Up to that point the Club had been adamant in using the new Robin badge.

I think we need to be seen more as a campaigning group.  We DO publish our meetings and since being online we have had a take-up that we did not get previously with traditional face to face meetings.  So there has been an improvement and we are sticking with online meetings as a result.  I would say the minutes are in a normal format - I have done them for several other organisations - and the ACTIONS are clearly listed and progress on them is reported at the next meeting.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER TO ATTEND MEETINGS - if you are interested they are on the first Wednesday each month and the link is available from me via info@bristolcitysupporters.org.

I think many OTIB contributors could provide a refreshing point of view.

We look forward to seeing you..

Mike

Thanks for your response, I think most of our frustrations are aimed at the club and the non existent fan dialogue from them

Just one question, could you not post the link on here directly?

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I mean, really? Absolute shambles. 

This looks like Temu levels of quality, but not price.

[glynriley]

2 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

I mean, really? Absolute shambles. 

That unicorn has got the bears crest on it. FFS we can’t even advertise the correct tat

[RedRock]

Frankly, since Beryl departed, the Club’s commercial side has been a shambles. 

That’s starting pre The Lansdown’s. Admittedly, it’s not improved, indeed probably got worse under their tenure. That decline accelerated by Hummel letting us down big time.

The Club needs to engage with fans in this aspect of its business affairs more than any other.  

Beryl had her finger on the pulse. She knew what the fans wanted and delivered. That’s because she regularly talked to, and - critically - listened to people on the terraces and in ‘her’ shop. That was her ‘market research’, not some insular team of professionals locked in some remote ivory tower. She was a success, the products sold well and there was a real buzz about the commercial side.

The Club needs a massive reset in this area. Will it happen? Not so sure. 

 

[BasSavage88]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

The Club needs to engage with fans in this aspect of its business affairs more than any other.  

The mad thing is they really don't. It's so so simple to get right. People want a nice kit, a wacky keeper kit. A smart training kit and some decent accessories (hats/gloves/caps/coats etc).

That's it. The thick ***** can't even get gloves and hats in stock for winter 

[Bristol Rob]

7 hours ago, RedRock said:

Frankly, since Beryl departed, the Club’s commercial side has been a shambles. 

That’s starting pre The Lansdown’s. Admittedly, it’s not improved, indeed probably got worse under their tenure. That decline accelerated by Hummel letting us down big time.

The Club needs to engage with fans in this aspect of its business affairs more than any other.  

Beryl had her finger on the pulse. She knew what the fans wanted and delivered. That’s because she regularly talked to, and - critically - listened to people on the terraces and in ‘her’ shop. That was her ‘market research’, not some insular team of professionals locked in some remote ivory tower. She was a success, the products sold well and there was a real buzz about the commercial side.

The Club needs a massive reset in this area. Will it happen? Not so sure. 

 

Point of order. Hummel didn't let us down, the distributor did.

[westonred]

6 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Point of order. Hummel didn't let us down, the distributor did.

Thats a great shame Coventry are still with Hummel and their kit for this season looks Quality

[SecretSam]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Heads need to roll over this in my opinion. It has been a monumental f up. For too long we have been too cosy off of the field and that's what leads to absolute shite like this. Complacency. If we want to be premier league, then we need premier league members of staff who out perform their roles. 

This. Reminds me of the '80s, absolute tinpot behind the scenes. The people involved may be well meaning and loyal, perhaps, but if they're incompetent then they need to go. Merchandise sales are important and establish the club with the fans and more widely - I'm a 54 year old and I love a bit of decent City stuff, but bloody unicorns? 

[nebristolred]

I'm really surprised at this. Have always bought GAA jerseys over the years from O'Neills and they're generally fantastic quality, better than most old City shirts I've had. Honestly no idea what has gone on here.

[Bristol Rob]

9 hours ago, Blagdon Mike said:

The Club launched the new kit without any discussion or warning of any sort with the SC&T.  It does go against provisions of the Fans Led Review recommendations but more importantly against the Memorandum of Understanding SIGNED BY SC&T AND BCFC when Richard Gould was CEO.  We have gone back to the Club over this issue but I am afraid it is all done and dusted.  I can understand contributors being disappointed we did not make a public fuss over the issue; we did not think that was the way forward.  What prompted the new bird design - looking like anything but a robin - is a mystery.  Up to that point the Club had been adamant in using the new Robin badge.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Mike.

Would someone from the Trust be able to say why the decision was made to not make a fuss over the rebranding, given that the club had only just undertaken the MOU? - I'm sure there is a logical explanation, but it immediately undermines the signed agreement, it has generated 60+ pages of comments and a degree of Forum 'outrage', but that doesn't seem to have resulted in a supporters group voicing a similar level of concern with the club. I'm surprised that the club didn't issue some sort of statement trying to justify what they've done, but equally, I'm not remotely surprised one bit. 

If it's a case that the club just aren't expected to listen to view and even if they did, they'd do nothing anyway - then fair enough (although that would call in to question the point of any dialogue with them at all). But surely if these wider views aren't presented in a 'we'll make as much noise as possible, and look to call out other disasters, like the centenary shirt and that training gear with the comic-sans font' then aside from any decision maker happening across this thread, how are the feeling of the majority of contributors shared with the club?

[BCFCGav]

14 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

I'm really surprised at this. Have always bought GAA jerseys over the years from O'Neills and they're generally fantastic quality, better than most old City shirts I've had. Honestly no idea what has gone on here.

Tin hat on, how many of the people complaining about the shirt quality have actually held/worn one? I share the frustrations about the splat robin and poor communication from the club, but I won't speak on the shirt quality until I've bought one and seen for myself. I remain mildly optimistic. 

[ExiledAjax]

11 hours ago, Blagdon Mike said:

I am a SC&T board member and moreover I write the minutes!

I am afraid I do not visit OTIB a lot because of my involvement not only with SC&T but also Local History Society, Parish Council and latterly the matchday programme.  I will start a new topic about the programme shortly - you will understand WHY then.  Having been alerted to this topic, I have read it all through before entering the fray:

The Club launched the new kit without any discussion or warning of any sort with the SC&T.  It does go against provisions of the Fans Led Review recommendations but more importantly against the Memorandum of Understanding SIGNED BY SC&T AND BCFC when Richard Gould was CEO.  We have gone back to the Club over this issue but I am afraid it is all done and dusted.  I can understand contributors being disappointed we did not make a public fuss over the issue; we did not think that was the way forward.  What prompted the new bird design - looking like anything but a robin - is a mystery.  Up to that point the Club had been adamant in using the new Robin badge.

I think we need to be seen more as a campaigning group.  We DO publish our meetings and since being online we have had a take-up that we did not get previously with traditional face to face meetings.  So there has been an improvement and we are sticking with online meetings as a result.  I would say the minutes are in a normal format - I have done them for several other organisations - and the ACTIONS are clearly listed and progress on them is reported at the next meeting.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER TO ATTEND MEETINGS - if you are interested they are on the first Wednesday each month and the link is available from me via info@bristolcitysupporters.org.

I think many OTIB contributors could provide a refreshing point of view.

We look forward to seeing you..

Great reply Mike, you do great work. I hope I've not said anything out of turn on here.