Max O'Leary

[Riaz]

On 01/09/2023 at 19:09, Mr Hankey said:

Interesting that people are saying O’leary is a better keeper than Bentley……what Prem club would consider signing Max, even as a backup? 0 out of 20 i would imagine.

Not for me.

[Silvio Dante]

12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Sadly , for you, he made two game saving saves to disprove your theory. 

Not really sadly for me as I want the team to win. However on the two incidents noted, I think it was Naismith made the tackle after the Pring error and it was a poor header from Cabango on the second. Certainly neither incident was a game saving save of quality, and again, although I’ve said he was generally fine (no chance for the goal), on Saturday he did the base of what he had to do for most of the game but still made two significant errors.

It’s not “sadly” for a city fan that we won. What is “sad” is that you appear to be conflating reasonable criticism and a noted area for improvement with an agenda, which I can assure you it isn’t. I can bet you a pound to a penny that Max, Pat Mountain and Nige will all be reviewing the incidents as well with a view to improving in the future.

[Davefevs]

Just adding to the debate…

…when Max took over from Bents last season, every opponent seemed to stick crosses / corners on top of him.  Usual theory of testing the inexperienced keeper.

It seems like this happens less of late.  Is that because Max has shown he can deal with them, or just coincidence?

[bearded_red]

His all round game is ahead of Bentley and his positive impact on the defence since Nige made that change has been obvious.

[mozo]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just adding to the debate…

…when Max took over from Bents last season, every opponent seemed to stick crosses / corners on top of him.  Usual theory of testing the inexperienced keeper.

It seems like this happens less of late.  Is that because Max has shown he can deal with them, or just coincidence?

He doesn't seem to be a flapper and doesn't have moments of madness. So I don't think opponents would necessarily target him.

He probably just needs some refinement on delivery and possibly awareness, but he's still young for a keeper. 

I would like to see another solid goalie to compete for his place though.

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

[Major Isewater]

33 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Not really sadly for me as I want the team to win. However on the two incidents noted, I think it was Naismith made the tackle after the Pring error and it was a poor header from Cabango on the second. Certainly neither incident was a game saving save of quality, and again, although I’ve said he was generally fine (no chance for the goal), on Saturday he did the base of what he had to do for most of the game but still made two significant errors.

It’s not “sadly” for a city fan that we won. What is “sad” is that you appear to be conflating reasonable criticism and a noted area for improvement with an agenda, which I can assure you it isn’t. I can bet you a pound to a penny that Max, Pat Mountain and Nige will all be reviewing the incidents as well with a view to improving in the future.

I respect your view and I am not saying that you don’t want us to win but that your theory was disproved, which could have been sad for you. 
For what it’s worth I think Max is a worthy guardian for us and hope that he stays fit because IMHO , HWR is nowhere near the required level yet and Bajic hasn’t the experience either . 
 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I'm still undecided as to where I place Max in our list of keepers in the 21st century. He's a solid enough keeper for the most part but he's never likely to excite you with awesome saves (for the cameras) like (always got a mistake in him) Bentley sometimes did, or Basso did frequently, once singlehandedly earning us a point at Leicester. He's not as good on one on ones as Fielding but is a better kicker, if again not the best. He is good on crosses, something which many of our keepers have been poor at, with perhaps only Maenpaa (the one we should have done more to have kept) and Heaton consistently better. At the moment for his all round game I'm edging towards him being on a par with David James (during his period with us) and Dan Bentley, ahead of Steve Phillips, Richard O'Donnell and Frank Fielding but behind Adriano Basso, Tom Heaton and Niki Maenpaa. 

[mozo]

14 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I'm still undecided as to where I place Max in our list of keepers in the 21st century. He's a solid enough keeper for the most part but he's never likely to excite you with awesome saves (for the cameras) like (always got a mistake in him) Bentley sometimes did, or Basso did frequently, once singlehandedly earning us a point at Leicester. He's not as good on one on ones as Fielding but is a better kicker, if again not the best. He is good on crosses, something which many of our keepers have been poor at, with perhaps only Maenpaa (the one we should have done more to have kept) and Heaton consistently better. At the moment for his all round game I'm edging towards him being on a par with David James (during his period with us) and Dan Bentley, ahead of Steve Phillips, Richard O'Donnell and Frank Fielding but behind Adriano Basso, Tom Heaton and Niki Maenpaa. 

He's physically comparable to Phillips, isn't he, but like you say, probably better.

Edited September 4, 2023 by mozo

[Red-Robbo]

I don't think you'll ever find a keeper - or a player - who does everything perfectly. Max is no different.

I'd like him to work more on his distribution and especially long kick accuracy, but I think he's not a bad goalie at this level. 

[Lack of Action Man]

5 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I'm still undecided as to where I place Max in our list of keepers in the 21st century. He's a solid enough keeper for the most part but he's never likely to excite you with awesome saves (for the cameras) like (always got a mistake in him) Bentley sometimes did, or Basso did frequently, once singlehandedly earning us a point at Leicester. He's not as good on one on ones as Fielding but is a better kicker, if again not the best. He is good on crosses, something which many of our keepers have been poor at, with perhaps only Maenpaa (the one we should have done more to have kept) and Heaton consistently better. At the moment for his all round game I'm edging towards him being on a par with David James (during his period with us) and Dan Bentley, ahead of Steve Phillips, Richard O'Donnell and Frank Fielding but behind Adriano Basso, Tom Heaton and Niki Maenpaa. 

About the same as Dean Gerken then?

[Malago]

 I think he’s a perfectly competent championship keeper.

The young inexperienced back up is more of concern.

[And Its Smith]

Pearson has near complete fan support but his judgement on a key player and position is questioned quite a lot. An odd one. 
 

As for, Max can’t do X Y and Z. We just had a player who could do everything and got £25m for him. A rarity. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

35 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

About the same as Dean Gerken then?

Forgot him but yes. 

[Lack of Action Man]

1 hour ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Forgot him but yes. 

I agree FWIW. Solid without being remarkable.

[And Its Smith]

O’Leary is much better than Gerken in my opinion 

[Riaz]

12 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

O’Leary is much better than Gerken in my opinion 

Obviously - whilst max, isnt as good sa Bentley was - he's a competent keeper.

Gerken was a poor keeper at this level.

[1960maaan]

All down to opinions , and while Bentley was here he got plenty of abuse , but as the saying goes "absence makes the heart grow fonder".

For me Bentley possibly a better shot stopper, but not much in it.

Distribution ; Max was much better when he came into the side, with fewer short options there is pressure on his kicking and we notice the ones he misses.

Calls; Max much better , there are time when you can hear his shouts over the ground noise.

Crosses; Bentley played like he was wearing diving boots or had a bungee rope between him and the post. Max much better and the defence are better for it.

Confidence; Bentley really looked like he could struggle , where as Max has been steady even when things have gone wrong.

Just my opinion , but Max is a solid Championship keeper.
Could we do better ? Possibly, but we would have to spend a lot of money. We have tried the keeper market several times (Marinovic free, Lucic £250k , Gilmartin free , Giefer loan , Maenpaa free ) before Bentley joined for around £2.2m. Then Nikita Haikin (who I'd forgotten) and Bakic . Unless we spend money or produce one from the Academy, Max will be our No.1 for a while , and TBF I'm reasonably happy with that.

[And Its Smith]

44 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Obviously - whilst max, isnt as good sa Bentley was - he's a competent keeper.

Gerken was a poor keeper at this level.

I’d say Max is no worse than Bentley at the moment and has a higher ceiling as still is inexperienced at this level 

[Riaz]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

I’d say Max is no worse than Bentley at the moment and has a higher ceiling as still is inexperienced at this level 

Maybe he does have bigger potential. But he does not make the saves that Bentley did on a regular basis.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

Maybe he does have bigger potential. But he does not make the saves that Bentley did on a regular basis.

Partly because his positioning is better so doesn’t need too.  He makes a lot of saves.  Some of them could easily be argued he should make but that’s partly because he is in the right position and moves his feet better than Bentley.  He doesn’t have Bentley’s fault of awful foot movement going to his left for example.   He also commands his area better and distributes quicker. 

[Riaz]

55 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Partly because his positioning is better so doesn’t need too.  He makes a lot of saves.  Some of them could easily be argued he should make but that’s partly because he is in the right position and moves his feet better than Bentley.  He doesn’t have Bentley’s fault of awful foot movement going to his left for example.   He also commands his area better and distributes quicker. 

Again, not for me.

Cant remember which game it was - possibly Hull. Hull striker went clean through on goal and Max was VERY slow coming off his line. Fortunately the stiker shot it straight at him and we got let off. He gave him too much time and the striker had an easy goal to score and any other time, it would have been a goal.

[And Its Smith]

24 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Again, not for me.

Cant remember which game it was - possibly Hull. Hull striker went clean through on goal and Max was VERY slow coming off his line. Fortunately the stiker shot it straight at him and we got let off. He gave him too much time and the striker had an easy goal to score and any other time, it would have been a goal.

for clarity I’m talking about positioning as in making diving saves rather than rushing out which Bentley was better at. 
 

Foot movement pre saves is a very underrated and unnoticed skill 

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Riaz said:

Again, not for me.

Cant remember which game it was - possibly Hull. Hull striker went clean through on goal and Max was VERY slow coming off his line. Fortunately the stiker shot it straight at him and we got let off. He gave him too much time and the striker had an easy goal to score and any other time, it would have been a goal.

Or….he could’ve come haring out erratically and not been able to set himself.  He basically bided his time, made the striker make the first move…and saved it.

I guess you’re another one who thinks every one on one should be a goal.  The evidence shows that is incorrect.

Cant believe you’re criticising an important save???

[Riaz]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Or….he could’ve come haring out erratically and not been able to set himself.  He basically bided his time, made the striker make the first move…and saved it.

I guess you’re another one who thinks every one on one should be a goal.  The evidence shows that is incorrect.

Cant believe you’re criticising an important save???

O'Leary was rooted. He didnt close him down at all. He was almost giving them a goal - He was very lucky the striker completely fluffed it. Next time - in the championship, they'll score.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Riaz said:

O'Leary was rooted. He didnt close him down at all. He was almost giving them a goal - He was very lucky the striker completely fluffed it. Next time - in the championship, they'll score.

He doesn’t have to be moving forwards.  The closer he gets, the forward movement he’s making, makes it more difficult to react.  He’s waiting to see if a right footed striker on the left side of the goal is gonna lash one with his left foot or whether he’s gonna try to manoeuvre it onto his right.

He gets his angles right.

Especially the awkwardness of Connelly trying to work it onto his right foot.

So what if the striker hit a weak shot, you can argue that’s because O’Leary delayed him.  In fairness he might’ve saved it coming rushing out too.  But your assertion that every other time the striker scores is “wide of the mark” - no pun intended.

[Silvio Dante]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He doesn’t have to be moving forwards.  The closer he gets, the forward movement he’s making, makes it more difficult to react.  He’s waiting to see if a right footed striker on the left side of the goal is gonna lash one with his left foot or whether he’s gonna try to manoeuvre it onto his right.

He gets his angles right.

Especially the awkwardness of Connelly trying to work it onto his right foot.

So what if the striker hit a weak shot, you can argue that’s because O’Leary delayed him.  In fairness he might’ve saved it coming rushing out too.  But your assertion that every other time the striker scores is “wide of the mark” - no pun intended.

Yeah I’ve picked up Max on a lot but didn’t see a huge amount wrong with what he did there. It’s a percentage movement and there might be more than one way to skin a cat vis rushing out, but he’s made a reasonable decision there. Not a move to criticise for me.

[Riaz]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He doesn’t have to be moving forwards.  The closer he gets, the forward movement he’s making, makes it more difficult to react.  He’s waiting to see if a right footed striker on the left side of the goal is gonna lash one with his left foot or whether he’s gonna try to manoeuvre it onto his right.

He gets his angles right.

Especially the awkwardness of Connelly trying to work it onto his right foot.

So what if the striker hit a weak shot, you can argue that’s because O’Leary delayed him.  In fairness he might’ve saved it coming rushing out too.  But your assertion that every other time the striker scores is “wide of the mark” - no pun intended.

If you watch the highlights, you'll see the hull striker picks the ball up, at least 10 yards outside the box. And is this screenshot, a second or two later - Max is a yard outside his penalty box. That is slow. He's hardly moved.

I'm not saying Max isnt a good keeper - My original point was, i think Bentley was a better keeper.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Riaz said:

If you watch the highlights, you'll see the hull striker picks the ball up, at least 10 yards outside the box. And is this screenshot, a second or two later - Max is a yard outside his penalty box. That is slow. He's hardly moved.

I'm not saying Max isnt a good keeper - My original point was, i think Bentley was a better keeper.

Why commit himself, why not wait to see why Connelly does? He waits to see what he does with his first touch (outside the box).  It’s not being slow, he’s just not committing himself, making sure his angles are right.  If Connelly takes another touch, then he comes out.

Thats fine if you think Bentley is a better keeper.  i suspect difference of opinions come from you are think constitutes a better keeper?  The answer doesn’t need to be black and white either.

 

[Riaz]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why commit himself, why not wait to see why Connelly does? He waits to see what he does with his first touch (outside the box).  It’s not being slow, he’s just not committing himself, making sure his angles are right.  If Connelly takes another touch, then he comes out.

Thats fine if you think Bentley is a better keeper.  i suspect difference of opinions come from you are think constitutes a better keeper?  The answer doesn’t need to be black and white either.

 

The person i was replying to said he thought Max had better positioning. Thats why i brought up the Hull thing.

The main reason i think Bentley was better - was that he seemed to make more "match winning" saves.

Thats not to say Max cant be better than Bentley in the future. He's just not there yet IMO.

[95red]

Max a mid average  championship  keeper  still learning  his trade ,Bentley  top  half championship  keeper  who got a great move to the prem ,at the moment  Bents is a better keeper. 

[TommyD68]

Nice little stat for Max, one of the best shot stoppers in the league so far this season

[Shauntaylor85]

We should have gone in for the Forest keeper who did so well at Luton last year. I like Max but he isn’t going to get you top 6. I think this is the weakest our GK department has been in 20 years plus. 

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

We should have gone in for the Forest keeper who did so well at Luton last year. I like Max but he isn’t going to get you top 6. I think this is the weakest our GK department has been in 20 years plus. 

That would be the same keeper who has been on the bench for them for every Premiership game so far?

Seeing as we know now there is absolutely nothing left in the budget for Pearson to spend, that suggestion is Kasper Schmeichel signing levels of “not going to happen”.

Mind you I’m sure you were also suggesting Keiffer Moore.

I wish that we had a more experienced alternative to Max (not necessarily to start) but it seems we can’t afford it.

 

[View from the Dolman]

31 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

That would be the same keeper who has been on the bench for them for every Premiership game so far?

Seeing as we know now there is absolutely nothing left in the budget for Pearson to spend, that suggestion is Kasper Schmeichel signing levels of “not going to happen”.

Mind you I’m sure you were also suggesting Keiffer Moore.

I wish that we had a more experienced alternative to Max (not necessarily to start) but it seems we can’t afford it.

 

Got the feeling he was especially happy to beat us too - perhaps a bit of unhappiness after his trial with us ages back?

[Fpcity]

On 05/09/2023 at 14:48, 95red said:

Max a mid average  championship  keeper  still learning  his trade ,Bentley  top  half championship  keeper  who got a great move to the prem ,at the moment  Bents is a better keeper. 

I doubt there were many English keepers available for Wolves at the time for what they wanted. Brentford were happy to let him go while in the championship because of the same reasons why many fans on here don't rate him. 

[Wedontplayinblue]

On 05/09/2023 at 14:48, 95red said:

Max a mid average  championship  keeper  still learning  his trade ,Bentley  top  half championship  keeper  who got a great move to the prem ,at the moment  Bents is a better keeper. 

It’s  to do with him being English and is an easy number in their squad, the same as Scott Carson at Man City. 
 

Bentley has played a whopping 180 minutes of football since leaving us, if he was that good another championship club would have got him as a number 1

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

That would be the same keeper who has been on the bench for them for every Premiership game so far?

Seeing as we know now there is absolutely nothing left in the budget for Pearson to spend, that suggestion is Kasper Schmeichel signing levels of “not going to happen”.

Mind you I’m sure you were also suggesting Keiffer Moore.

I wish that we had a more experienced alternative to Max (not necessarily to start) but it seems we can’t afford it.

 

Keiffer Moore would have buried those chances Wells missed at the weekend. He’s a very good player and would score goals. 

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Keiffer Moore would have buried those chances Wells missed at the weekend. He’s a very good player and would score goals. 

You’re sort of ignoring the fact these players are currently at Premier League clubs & the whole we haven’t the budget for their wages bit, aren’t you?

Mbappe is really good at football, too.

[95red]

8 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

It’s  to do with him being English and is an easy number in their squad, the same as Scott Carson at Man City. 
 

Bentley has played a whopping 180 minutes of football since leaving us, if he was that good another championship club would have got him as a number 1

So Bents ain't good enough  for the championship  then ffs

[Wedontplayinblue]

55 minutes ago, 95red said:

So Bents ain't good enough  for the championship  then ffs

If he was that good of a keeper, many other clubs would have bought him from us. 

[Fordy62]

59 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

If he was that good of a keeper, many other clubs would have bought him from us. 

How many can buy him?

[95red]

1 hour ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

If he was that good of a keeper, many other clubs would have bought him from us. 

Do you know what offers were out there ,he chose a premiership dream good on him .

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Mbappe is really good at football, too.

But would he get in ahead of Sam Bell? 
 

[Wedontplayinblue]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

How many can buy him?

I personally don’t think many would sign him, unless it’s for financial reasons you’d expect a keeper to want to play games rather than play second fiddle.

Even more with Bentley, he’s 30 so supposed to be entering his prime, not wasting it sat on a bench. 

1 hour ago, 95red said:

Do you know what offers were out there ,he chose a premiership dream good on him .

No of course not, but it’s clearly not for footballing reasons he was signed.

180 minutes since Jan, he’s gone from playing nearly every game to being a back up keeper to make up English numbers. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Wedontplayinblue

[Shauntaylor85]

13 hours ago, GrahamC said:

You’re sort of ignoring the fact these players are currently at Premier League clubs & the whole we haven’t the budget for their wages bit, aren’t you?

Mbappe is really good at football, too.

City can afford to sign them if Cardiff can. We just choose not to. 

[Davefevs]

Nobody did sign Moore though, did they?

Cardiff and Millwall tried, why didn’t it happen?  Unrealistic financially, unrealistic move for the player, other reason, etc.

[Scrumpty]

3 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

If he was that good of a keeper, many other clubs would have bought him from us. 

If he was that good of a keeper, Bournemouth would have bought him from us. Corrected that for you

[Numero Uno]

14 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Keiffer Moore would have buried those chances Wells missed at the weekend. He’s a very good player and would score goals. 

If he had the sharpness to get on the end of them. Wells started the move and was about 15 yards behind Bell for the chance he hit straight at the keeper.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

If he had the sharpness to get on the end of them. Wells started the move and was about 15 yards behind Bell for the chance he hit straight at the keeper.

I watched that back on Monday.

I’ve always felt Wells has a long stride pattern for a short(ish) / nippy player, he rarely looks like he’s sprinting.  That chance, just watch how he somehow gets faster and faster without seeming to put more grunt into it.  He kinda glides.

 

[95red]

3 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

I personally don’t think many would sign him, unless it’s for financial reasons you’d expect a keeper to want to play games rather than play second fiddle.

Even more with Bentley, he’s 30 so supposed to be entering his prime, not wasting it sat on a bench. 

No of course not, but it’s clearly not for footballing reasons he was signed.

180 minutes since Jan, he’s gone from playing nearly every game to being a back up keeper to make up English numbers. 

Max wouldn't  make a prem bench ,Bents did because  he's more experienced & a better keeper at the moment. Move suited all party's on a  big wage at ours & he probably  got the same deal at wolves .

[Wedontplayinblue]

4 minutes ago, 95red said:

Max wouldn't  make a prem bench ,Bents did because  he's more experienced & a better keeper at the moment. Move suited all party's on a  big wage at ours & he probably  got the same deal at wolves .

Bentley hasn’t made it in the prem, he’s signed for a club in the premier league, he’s played two times since joining 8 months ago.

If he had made it, he’d be playing week in week out, the two games he has started he’s let in 3 goals. 


 

[95red]

2 hours ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

Bentley hasn’t made it in the prem, he’s signed for a club in the premier league, he’s played two times since joining 8 months ago.

If he had made it, he’d be playing week in week out, the two games he has started he’s let in 3 goals. 


 

Where did I say he's made it in  the prem,moved to be a no 2 he knew we knew it .Still a far better keeper  than our no 1.

[Wedontplayinblue]

52 minutes ago, 95red said:

Where did I say he's made it in  the prem,moved to be a no 2 he knew we knew it .Still a far better keeper  than our no 1.

I fail to see how going to sit on a bench at football club, can count as making it? 
 

He’s using the start of his prime years, earning decent money, sat around playing little to no football. 

[Dredd]

On 05/09/2023 at 14:38, Riaz said:

The person i was replying to said he thought Max had better positioning. Thats why i brought up the Hull thing.

The main reason i think Bentley was better - was that he seemed to make more "match winning" saves.

Thats not to say Max cant be better than Bentley in the future. He's just not there yet IMO.

Bentley cost us far more points than he won us games (that's not to say he didn't have good games, he had some belters). This rhetoric that Bentley was and is a better keeper just isn't supported by stats, league position, or current amount of first team football being played. 

[A Horse With No Name]

An amazing fact is that M O'L is the joint 15th longest serving player at his current club, with 8 years and 66 days, in the entire EFL. Incredible when you think how many players there are in the League and how few games Max has actually played.

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said:

An amazing fact is that M O'L is the joint 15th longest serving player at his current club, with 8 years and 66 days, in the entire EFL. Incredible when you think how many players there are in the League and how few games Max has actually played.

I saw that earlier this week.  I think the source of the data is Transfermarkt and his “move” from City u18s to City main team on their database…and he sat on the bench for our first game back in the Champ, initially to Frank, then Hamer.

[Fpcity]

I saw that somewhere. 

Dean lewington nearly 20 years at MK Dons is the longest? Pretty sure I saw him against city 15-20 years ago, had a decent game I remember. 

[mightyreds89]

Zak must be in that list too? 

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, mightyreds89 said:

Zak must be in that list too? 

It was a top 20 I think….Zak was “upgraded” in Transfermarkt in 16/17 so a year behind.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

Max in the Ireland squad for tonight's match vs Netherlands, replacing Mark Travers 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 07/09/2023 at 14:30, Wedontplayinblue said:

Bentley hasn’t made it in the prem, he’s signed for a club in the premier league, he’s played two times since joining 8 months ago.

If he had made it, he’d be playing week in week out, the two games he has started he’s let in 3 goals. 


 

Last bit is slightly unfair as one of those was at Old Trafford where he played an absolute blinder.

[1960maaan]

On 07/09/2023 at 18:24, Dredd said:

Bentley cost us far more points than he won us games (that's not to say he didn't have good games, he had some belters). This rhetoric that Bentley was and is a better keeper just isn't supported by stats, league position, or current amount of first team football being played. 

I'm sorry , but that is ridiculous .
Yes Bentley made some mistakes that lead directly to goals , but you could not fault him on shot stopping and his 1 on 1 was as good as anyone we ever had.  There were many things about his game I didn't like , and for my money, Max is all round a slightly better keeper. But it's not like Bents was throwing them in every other week.
 

Edited September 10, 2023 by 1960maaan

[Lack of Action Man]

Just thinking out loud, If we were to somehow gain promotion this season, MOL would not be #1 in the prem I feel. It would be one of the first upgrades we could make with the promotion payday £££.

I don’t think I’ve seen enough footy yet this season to comment on other teams’ GK’s but my feeling is that those who will be “there or there abouts” come the business end of the season will have at least one prem-capable stopper.

I’m just not sure Max is at that level, imo.
 

 

[Spike]

On 07/09/2023 at 17:21, 95red said:

Where did I say he's made it in  the prem,moved to be a no 2 he knew we knew it .Still a far better keeper  than our no 1.

I've had this discussion so many times but "better" isn't always best suited. 

Bentley caused problems in defence that were largely overlooked because he's a great shot stopper. He would stay on his line on corners which meant the defenders had to win their duels which put more pressure on us as we were not the tallest of teams. Max on the other hand comes out, it's very vocal and either claims the ball or punches, yes he has moments where he doesn't get the contact but that's because he's smaller in frame and has to get through bigger players. The one thing this does is lessen the pressure that the defenders are under as it's far easier to get the height to win a cross when you can punch or catch the ball. 

The second thing Max does is play sweeper keeper, Bentley did not like playing that role, you could see it every time he got the ball all he wanted to do was get it up the pitch which is great, until you have small attackers who can't win the ball much on long passes, hence we play it out from the back as much as we can. 

Rather than explaining it further the simple retort to Bentley being "better" is that Bentley was only better at shot stopping. When it comes to coming out in one vs one Max has made some crucial saves, as did Bentley, I'd say in that regard they're about the same. In terms of playing it out from the back Max can receive the ball under pressure and play it out with a low pass, Bentley was not comfortable doing this. Bentley stays on his line for crosses which puts more pressure on the defence, Max comes out which takes that extra stress off of the back line giving them more time to get settled when under pressure. 

Max is far better suited for how we play, he's also probably a massive amount cheaper too. If we were to replace Max it would be a harder job than many think, you need a keeper who can obviously make saves but also one who will command his area, who will come out for crosses and corners and one who will be comfortable playing the passing game with the defence whilst being pressured, that's a lot of qualities to ask for in a keeper and I imagine it'd cost us a fair whack in the transfer market. 

[Davefevs]

Couldn’t agree more @Spike.

However, the one thing (okay there’s probably more than one thing, but…) Max could improve is decusioninb making on passes under pressure, or perhaps better put - passes that might put his teammate under pressure.  Just needs to think quicker and assess the situation.

I’m really comfy with him between the sticks on all the other aspects.

[Numero Uno]

6 hours ago, Spike said:

I've had this discussion so many times but "better" isn't always best suited. 

Bentley caused problems in defence that were largely overlooked because he's a great shot stopper. He would stay on his line on corners which meant the defenders had to win their duels which put more pressure on us as we were not the tallest of teams. Max on the other hand comes out, it's very vocal and either claims the ball or punches, yes he has moments where he doesn't get the contact but that's because he's smaller in frame and has to get through bigger players. The one thing this does is lessen the pressure that the defenders are under as it's far easier to get the height to win a cross when you can punch or catch the ball. 

The second thing Max does is play sweeper keeper, Bentley did not like playing that role, you could see it every time he got the ball all he wanted to do was get it up the pitch which is great, until you have small attackers who can't win the ball much on long passes, hence we play it out from the back as much as we can. 

Rather than explaining it further the simple retort to Bentley being "better" is that Bentley was only better at shot stopping. When it comes to coming out in one vs one Max has made some crucial saves, as did Bentley, I'd say in that regard they're about the same. In terms of playing it out from the back Max can receive the ball under pressure and play it out with a low pass, Bentley was not comfortable doing this. Bentley stays on his line for crosses which puts more pressure on the defence, Max comes out which takes that extra stress off of the back line giving them more time to get settled when under pressure. 

Max is far better suited for how we play, he's also probably a massive amount cheaper too. If we were to replace Max it would be a harder job than many think, you need a keeper who can obviously make saves but also one who will command his area, who will come out for crosses and corners and one who will be comfortable playing the passing game with the defence whilst being pressured, that's a lot of qualities to ask for in a keeper and I imagine it'd cost us a fair whack in the transfer market. 

This is a very good explanation. "Better suited" is a great way of putting it. We don't have two lamp posts at the back and so a Goalkeeper that will come for the high ball, and there are plenty of those coming your way at our level, is a must. If he got to every single one he wouldn't be playing for our mob. However I will take the odd goal conceded due to Max "not getting there" all day long over those goals we conceded at Birmingham from three yard headers......the game, if I recall correctly, that Nige decided enough was enough and a change HAD to be made. If you have a "liner" in goal you need one or two mountains in front of him.......Frank Fielding and Aiden Flint being an obvious example.

One area where Max needs to improve for me is the one area Bentley excelled, which is the ability to pull out a save right out of the top drawer. For example Birmingham's opener the other week - no fault attached whatsoever to Max but now and again I'd like to see him go above and beyond and stop one of those going in.

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

This is a very good explanation. "Better suited" is a great way of putting it. We don't have two lamp posts at the back and so a Goalkeeper that will come for the high ball, and there are plenty of those coming your way at our level, is a must. If he got to every single one he wouldn't be playing for our mob. However I will take the odd goal conceded due to Max "not getting there" all day long over those goals we conceded at Birmingham from three yard headers......the game, if I recall correctly, that Nige decided enough was enough and a change HAD to be made. If you have a "liner" in goal you need one or two mountains in front of him.......Frank Fielding and Aiden Flint being an obvious example.

One area where Max needs to improve for me is the one area Bentley excelled, which is the ability to pull out a save right out of the top drawer. For example Birmingham's opener the other week - no fault attached whatsoever to Max but now and again I'd like to see him go above and beyond and stop one of those going in.

I agree.

But it’s funny how views do change, e.g. the Villa game in 18/19 where he produced a number of worldies, last season at Boro too.  At that point some people suggested he could make big saves but was crap at his own box / aerial stuff.

[QuedgeRed]

Is he good enough at this level?

[The Fat Controller]

Yes

[Riaz]

I think he's very average. Good enough to play at this level, but if we are to push on, i'd like us to sign a better keeper.