Message to JL

[Galley is our king]

Don't fanny about too long please, get NP extension done!!

[Roe]

I like NP but think it's probably worth waiting on this one

He seems quite committed to the club and vision anyway so an extension seems kind of meaningless at the moment

For as good a job as he's done/doing, we're still in the bottom half of the championship where our general aim has been to get into the play offs

[Selred]

Whens his contract end?

[iamalagerdrinker]

8 minutes ago, Selred said:

Whens his contract end?

End of next season 

I’m happy for this one to be concluded in the summer or before Christmas 

[Guest]

Already agreed he won’t be getting an extension and we will receive some compensation.

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, Bcfcshags said:

Already agreed he won’t be getting an extension and we will receive some compensation.

Can you explain where you got that from?

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Can you explain where you got that from?

I think he thought he was on the Massengo thread.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Can you explain where you got that from?

Wasn't on the OS - so not sure why you're even interested?

[Cyderman]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think he thought he was on the Massengo thread.

Blimey, hope this is true, so I can call off the ambulance for the heart attack I was about to have 

[Roe]

37 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Don't agree, think having a manager tied down longer term will give players additional reason to want to join the club.

He remains a big pull. Bigger than anyone we've had in years. 

 

It was only 2 months ago people wanted him out

So what we give him an extra year or two and then what happens and we struggle for form again? We then need to make a change and have to pay out more money

The benefits of having him secured for longer right now are massively outweighed by the cost of if it goes wrong imo

 

[Rossi the Robin]

I’d have given him a new contract at Christmas, I’m not jumping on the bandwagon because we have been on a good run - it’s a much bigger picture 

[Roe]

19 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Nobody with a brain cell wanted him out

The club didn't want him out. 

This project is hugely influenced by the stability and experience of Nige. He's the key ingredient. 

I generally agree, but still don't think it makes sense at this time. 

A lot will depend on internal conversations anyway. I'd like to assume that the Lansdowns are in contact with Nigel enough to know if he feels he needs to sign a new contract right now

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

He remains a big pull. Bigger than anyone we've had in years. 

 

1 hour ago, Bcfcshags said:

Already agreed he won’t be getting an extension and we will receive some compensation.

Please guys don't make me go there...

[Engvall’s Splinter]

1 hour ago, Bcfcshags said:

Already agreed he won’t be getting an extension and we will receive some compensation.

Pearson won’t be getting an extension? Compensation for what - somebody else wants him?

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, Roe said:

It was only 2 months ago Some people wanted him out

So what we give him an extra year or two and then what happens and we struggle for form again? We then need to make a change and have to pay out more money

The benefits of having him secured for longer right now are massively outweighed by the cost of if it goes wrong imo

 

Corrected that for you, there always some with a short term view of things. Those who take the longer view and see how the club was progressing, rather than fixating on the team were happy with the job he was doing.

[Roe]

12 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Corrected that for you, there always some with a short term view of things. Those who take the longer view and see how the club was progressing, rather than fixating on the team were happy with the job he was doing.

Again I agree but that's not my point. 

I'd like to think we've moved on from unnecessary contact extensions for players and managers.  If the club and Nigel Pearson feel a new contract is necessary I'm sure they'll be working on that and don't need to be told to hurry up with anything imo

[maxjak]

2 hours ago, Bcfcshags said:

Already agreed he won’t be getting an extension and we will receive some compensation.

Only 40 posts.............but already ........    wielding such credibility? 

[robin_unreliant]

If SL has anyone interested in investing in the club they may prefer a bit of flexibility around the manager. 18 months left, no rush to commit to another 3 years yet is there?

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Please guys don't make me go there...

I think it’s already too late.

[downendcity]

Pearson is not getting an extension.

They got quotes for one, but Mrs Pearson decided that a new conservatory was a better option.

[Numero Uno]

43 minutes ago, Roe said:

Again I agree but that's not my point. 

I'd like to think we've moved on from unnecessary contact extensions for players and managers.  If the club and Nigel Pearson feel a new contract is necessary I'm sure they'll be working on that and don't need to be told to hurry up with anything imo

Deleted.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Selred]

2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Nobody with a brain cell wanted him out

The club didn't want him out. 

This project is hugely influenced by the stability and experience of Nige. He's the key ingredient. 

Disagree.

After West Brom I was done was Nigel. We had a really poor run, and didn't look like turning it around. Had no style of play, or progression plan in my opinion. 

Since then I've been totally proven wrong, and we've done amazingly. I'm loving Nige now, and very proud of City.

Harsh to say I don't have a brain cell, very likely many many like me in the same boat.

[Alessandro]

48 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

If SL has anyone interested in investing in the club they may prefer a bit of flexibility around the manager. 18 months left, no rush to commit to another 3 years yet is there?

That’s what I wondered…

[Kolsch]

4 hours ago, Roe said:

I like NP but think it's probably worth waiting on this one

He seems quite committed to the club and vision anyway so an extension seems kind of meaningless at the moment

For as good a job as he's done/doing, we're still in the bottom half of the championship where our general aim has been to get into the play offs

I agree. For however well we’ve done this calendar year, I think a lot of the changes were forced upon him and it’s just fallen into place.

The change in formation, personnel, having to play young players due to squad depth amongst other things.

I still feel also that there’s no real plan with our teams going into games. I’d be amazed if we did numerous tactical drills on the training pitch or in the analysis room at the HPC in the lead up to games if watching our games is anything to go by.

We’re doing well because Nige embraced the change in formation, stuck with a performing team and our lads have a real togetherness and camaraderie. And credit to him for that.

But I think it’s a little premature to start rewarding the manager with new deals just yet. Let’s see what happens when an inevitable bump in the road occurs.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Kolsch said:

I agree. For however well we’ve done this calendar year, I think a lot of the changes were forced upon him and it’s just fallen into place.

The change in formation, personnel, having to play young players due to squad depth amongst other things.

I still feel also that there’s no real plan with our teams going into games. I’d be amazed if we did numerous tactical drills on the training pitch or in the analysis room at the HPC in the lead up to games if watching our games is anything to go by.

We’re doing well because Nige embraced the change in formation, stuck with a performing team and our lads have a real togetherness and camaraderie. And credit to him for that.

But I think it’s a little premature to start rewarding the manager with new deals just yet. Let’s see what happens when an inevitable bump in the road occurs.

No real plan? Wow.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Kolsch said:

I agree. For however well we’ve done this calendar year, I think a lot of the changes were forced upon him and it’s just fallen into place.

The change in formation, personnel, having to play young players due to squad depth amongst other things.

I still feel also that there’s no real plan with our teams going into games. I’d be amazed if we did numerous tactical drills on the training pitch or in the analysis room at the HPC in the lead up to games if watching our games is anything to go by.

We’re doing well because Nige embraced the change in formation, stuck with a performing team and our lads have a real togetherness and camaraderie. And credit to him for that.

But I think it’s a little premature to start rewarding the manager with new deals just yet. Let’s see what happens when an inevitable bump in the road occurs.

All about opinions, but I couldn’t be more polar opposite in mine.

FWIW contract discussions with Nige aren’t a priority imho.

[Kolsch]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All about opinions, but I couldn’t be more polar opposite in mine.

FWIW contract discussions with Nige aren’t a priority imho.

Fair enough Dave. I agree with a lot of what you say but I guess we’re different in this instance 

 

It just looks to me very much like there’s a ‘just go out and play’ approach to our side. I still feel like we’re going to get our comeuppance soon against a well coached team that’s done our homework against who we can’t overwhelm.

 

Its probably just that Nige is old school though, I guess his strengths lie in other areas.

[ChippenhamRed]

4 hours ago, Roe said:

I like NP but think it's probably worth waiting on this one

He seems quite committed to the club and vision anyway so an extension seems kind of meaningless at the moment

For as good a job as he's done/doing, we're still in the bottom half of the championship where our general aim has been to get into the play offs

Forget league position. It’s about the direction of travel, the development of a footballing identity, the academy pathway and the financial health of the football club.

Pearson has had - and continues to have - a positive impact in all the above areas. It’s just taken a while to see the benefits on the pitch.

[East End Old Boy]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All about opinions, but I couldn’t be more polar opposite in mine.

FWIW contract discussions with Nige aren’t a priority imho.

From what Steve Lansdown has said, it looks like they have a pretty open relationship and both know a change could have been made, but wasn’t. Steve said that Nige isn’t afraid to argue with the owners and that he’s with “the project”!

[Kolsch]

Just now, ChippenhamRed said:

Forget league position. It’s about the direction of travel, the development of a footballing identity, the academy pathway and the financial health of the football club.

Pearson has had - and continues to have - a positive impact in all the above areas. It’s just taken a while to see the benefits on the pitch.

I agree and these are what Nige needs commending for.

We are going in the right direction on and off then pitch. 

[ExiledAjax]

I think that whether or not to offer Pearson a new contract is a really tough decision. In the autumn we weren't as bad as some said we were, and right now we're not as good as some think we are. Pearson's done a great job behind the scenes but the next 3 years are going to be under different financial conditions. He may well have been perfect for the rebuild and reset, but someone else may be best for the push for the top 6. I'd not blame anyone who thought it best to let Pearson see out his contract and then hand over a well run, well set club with a solid squad of players. Hand that to the right manager and we could fly.

One things for sure - match results should be the final metric that we consider.

Edited March 3, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Davefevs]

Just now, Kolsch said:

Fair enough Dave. I agree with a lot of what you say but I guess we’re different in this instance 

 

It just looks to me very much like there’s a ‘just go out and play’ approach to our side. I still feel like we’re going to get our comeuppance soon against a well coached team that’s done our homework against who we can’t overwhelm.

 

Its probably just that Nige is old school though, I guess his strengths lie in other areas.

Yeah, boring forum if we all agree.

my view….Nige may be old, but I don’t see him as old school.  He’s quite forward thinking / modern in lots of ways.  it’s why he brings in staff like Dave Rennie, who is right on the cusp of medical / sport science advancements.

Over the past 3/4 months he’s started to talk much more about tactics in his media duties, especially opposition.  Imho, he’s not just learned this side of the game, just that he feels comfortable talking about it.

In this division, very few teams overwhelm their opposition…and they tend to do it because they have superior players, e.g. Burnley.

[Kolsch]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

No real plan? Wow.

Apologies I phrased that wrong. I just mean I’d be surprised if we’re as tactically versed as some other teams. West Brom and Middlesbrough for instance.

Nige’s strengths lie in other areas which have shown the past two months.

[Kolsch]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, boring forum if we all agree.

my view….Nige may be old, but I don’t see him as old school.  He’s quite forward thinking / modern in lots of ways.  it’s why he brings in staff like Dave Rennie, who is right on the cusp of medical / sport science advancements.

Over the past 3/4 months he’s started to talk much more about tactics in his media duties, especially opposition.  Imho, he’s not just learned this side of the game, just that he feels comfortable talking about it.

In this division, very few teams overwhelm their opposition…and they tend to do it because they have superior players, e.g. Burnley.

Yes fair call mate.

At least we have belief now and I feel we have a chance in every game now.

 

Both Nige and his staff deserve full credit for that.

[Son of Fred]

6 hours ago, Roe said:

It was only 2 months ago people wanted him out

So what we give him an extra year or two and then what happens and we struggle for form again? We then need to make a change and have to pay out more money

The benefits of having him secured for longer right now are massively outweighed by the cost of if it goes wrong imo

 

Give your glasses a clean

[Roe]

4 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

Give your glasses a clean

I think you're misreading my points but ok

[joe jordans teeth]

3 hours ago, Kolsch said:

Fair enough Dave. I agree with a lot of what you say but I guess we’re different in this instance 

 

It just looks to me very much like there’s a ‘just go out and play’ approach to our side. I still feel like we’re going to get our comeuppance soon against a well coached team that’s done our homework against who we can’t overwhelm.

 

Its probably just that Nige is old school though, I guess his strengths lie in other areas.

We will get our comeuppance like every team does in this league or any league 

[Sleepy1968]

4 hours ago, Selred said:

Harsh to say I don't have a brain cell, very likely many many like me in the same boat.

It's not just harsh, it's factually incorrect.

[Guest]

Jesus Christ I’ve had a mare.. genuinely read this topic as Massengo. Sorry chaps

[Selred]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

We did look like turning it around. 

We've were unlucky in the majority of games in the bad run. 

 

I think you’re wearing rose tinted glasses. 

Pearson has done a great job off the field, not doubt about it. But back vs West Brom, we weren’t seeing performances on the pitch. 

Your reaction to fans wanting Pearson out were unnecessarily harsh imo. 

[Roe]

We simply can't keep giving out new contracts all over the place

Even Lee Johnson's contract wouldn't have expired if he was still here

So we're still essentially paying for 3 managers at this moment in time

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Selred said:

I think you’re wearing rose tinted glasses. 

Pearson has done a great job off the field, not doubt about it. But back vs West Brom, we weren’t seeing performances on the pitch. 

Your reaction to fans wanting Pearson out were unnecessarily harsh imo. 

It’s just about being realistic about the diabolical position we were in,  nothing to do with rose tinted.   

[Selred]

9 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

The style of play hasn't changed

We’ve gone from 5 at the back (think King was playing CB), to 4. That’s quite a major change, and the right one. We are playing far better now.

[ExiledAjax]

21 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Well, you couldn't see this run of form coming.

I and many others could. 

It happened as predicted. The style of play hasn't changed, Exiled Ajax has shown the statistical evidence to support that conclusion with reference to our xG and other metrics.

Not that difficult a conclusion to draw really. 

I'd actually suggest that it's you wearing mud covered glasses. But there we go, it's a game of opinion. 

The brain cells bit was a fairly jokey barb, in honesty- appreciate that doesn't come across well in text form. 

As my ears are burning I'd simply like to clarify that I did not predict a 12 match unbeaten run. I merely pointed out that 17th was about par for the course at the time, and that therefore we shouldn't worry about slipping lower than that. It was more likely than not that we'd improve, but I did not expect to be hitting 1.88 points per game in 2023. 

This run is the fruition of two years of tough decisions...but that doesn't mean it was inevitable.

Ps. The same numbers that allayed my fears in December currently suggest that we're gaining rather more points than is reasonable. Hence my opinion that were not as good as people think we are. Hence my feeling that playoffs are a pipe dream as likely as relegation.

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

29 minutes ago, Roe said:

We simply can't keep giving out new contracts all over the place

Even Lee Johnson's contract wouldn't have expired if he was still here

So we're still essentially paying for 3 managers at this moment in time

That’s not how football management contract law works usually if you get sacked you get paid a year or until you get a new job! That will be written into the contract as one of the clauses!

Lee Johnson won’t be getting paid by us and Sunderland and Hibs! 
we stopped paying him as soon as he took the Sunderland Job!

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Percy Pig said:

A season is played over 46 games, the order you gain the points over that 46 game period isn't really relevant!

Stick that on my gravestone would you?

[Roe]

2 minutes ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

That’s not how football management contract law works usually if you get sacked you get paid a year or until you get a new job! That will be written into the contract as one of the clauses!

Lee Johnson won’t be getting paid by us and Sunderland and Hibs! 
we stopped paying him as soon as he took the Sunderland Job!

Of course but it still would have cost us

[Northern Red]

43 minutes ago, Roe said:

We simply can't keep giving out new contracts all over the place

Even Lee Johnson's contract wouldn't have expired if he was still here

So we're still essentially paying for 3 managers at this moment in time

Assuming you're including Holden, he was on a 12 month rolling deal, so we definitely won't still be paying him.

[Selred]

22 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

I've had this argument many times and I really can't be bothered to have it again. 

What I will say is that formation and style are not even remotely related. You can play gegenpress in a 352 and a 433, you can play long ball, tiki-taka etc etc. Our style has not changed. 

I’d say we’ve gone from a team who exclusively played the counter attack usually wide, to a team who now takes the game on the front foot, playing down the middle more regularly now too. 

[Roe]

Nigel himself addresses exactly my point here at 14:40

[steviestevieneville]

6 hours ago, Kolsch said:

I agree. For however well we’ve done this calendar year, I think a lot of the changes were forced upon him and it’s just fallen into place.

The change in formation, personnel, having to play young players due to squad depth amongst other things.

I still feel also that there’s no real plan with our teams going into games. I’d be amazed if we did numerous tactical drills on the training pitch or in the analysis room at the HPC in the lead up to games if watching our games is anything to go by.

We’re doing well because Nige embraced the change in formation, stuck with a performing team and our lads have a real togetherness and camaraderie. And credit to him for that.

But I think it’s a little premature to start rewarding the manager with new deals just yet. Let’s see what happens when an inevitable bump in the road occurs.

Sorry but this post is complete bollocks 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

10 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

Don't agree, think having a manager tied down longer term will give players additional reason to want to join the club.

He remains a big pull. Bigger than anyone we've had in years. 

 

I'll think you'll find that the biggest pull in football transfers is money.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said:

That’s not how football management contract law works usually if you get sacked you get paid a year or until you get a new job! That will be written into the contract as one of the clauses!

Lee Johnson won’t be getting paid by us and Sunderland and Hibs! 
we stopped paying him as soon as he took the Sunderland Job!

It depends on the contract and the exit clauses.  The LMA have confirmed in the past there is no standard manager contract.

Whilst many of us (me included) thought a 1-year rolling contract (like Holden was said to have) meant it continually updates and always has a year left, therefore a full year pay-off is due, I read some interesting stuff from a guy called Mike Thornton who gave a legal view that it it actually very different.  He wrote that at the end of year one it then gets renewed, not continually updates, so if you get rid of someone after 9 months, it’s only 3 months pay-out.

What also gets confused is how the pay-out (whatever length is left) is paid.  Again, no set rules.  Club can’t continue to pay as salary, to avoid a lump sum pay out, or pay-out in full, or even pay-out under conditions, e.g. we’ll keep paying you until you get another job.  It appears both Cotts and Johnson had this condition.  Cotts was alleged to have signed a 3-year deal with a 1-year pay-out clause.

But none of us really know - unless we saw the contract or someone very close to the deal leaks it.

[Selred]

1 hour ago, Percy Pig said:

So that 8 game unbeaten run at the start of the season didn't involve Naismith playing as a central sweeper and us playing through the thirds? 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you're talking out of your arse bud!

I’m not talking about the first 8 games, I’m talking about our performances after the international break. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Selred said:

I’m not talking about the first 8 games, I’m talking about our performances after the international break. 

Performances weren’t that bad at all.  West Brom was only second half, very even first half, second half we struggled to get the ball off of them.  You are always gonna have a range of performances.  After the World Cup, none of them were anywhere near Brum or Reading (both away pre-WC).  We comfortably beat Rotherham first game back too.  So it was only Stoke (fine but crap goals conceded) and West Brom before we went on our unbeaten run.

[ashton_fan]

Next season is make or break for Nige. I think we'll keep improving but if we're bottom half again then probably a change will be made at some point, so I wouldn't expect a new contract yet (and don't think Nige is bothered anyway)

[Engvall’s Splinter]

2 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

Next season is make or break for Nige. I think we'll keep improving but if we're bottom half again then probably a change will be made at some point, so I wouldn't expect a new contract yet (and don't think Nige is bothered anyway)

What do you mean by make or break exactly? Make the play offs, make the automatic promotion spots, make the top 10, make the top of half? 
 

As long as we don’t regress and financially we are improving, I see Nige here until he decides he wishes to leave. The side and ethic he has been / continues to create is one I can finally get behind. I feel real pride in the team when they leave the pitch. The players are putting a shift in week in week out, they seem an honest bunch too - no egos. Appreciate this should be the baseline but it’s been missing for sometime. Players are throwing themselves to get in the way of shots & crosses in numbers. They appear to be proud to wear the shirt - of course we want to see quality but I love the players showing fight and determination. 

[Selred]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Performances weren’t that bad at all.  West Brom was only second half, very even first half, second half we struggled to get the ball off of them.  You are always gonna have a range of performances.  After the World Cup, none of them were anywhere near Brum or Reading (both away pre-WC).  We comfortably beat Rotherham first game back too.  So it was only Stoke (fine but crap goals conceded) and West Brom before we went on our unbeaten run.

Disagree about West Brom first half. We had a few let offs first half, our passing was all over the place. Weimann was at RB, King at CB, it didn’t work. As you mentioned at the time, that was a very poor performance.

I went to Reading away, one of the worst games we’ve played (ironically after beating West Brom the Tuesday before). So that also played into being fed up with Pearson and our football on Boxing Day. 

In summary, myself and many were done with Pearson and that’s fair. The club had conversations over his future then too. But since then he’s turned things around and we have done so well in 2023. But it’s fair to been critical and be finished with Pearson on Boxing Day in my opinion. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Selred

[ExiledAjax]

18 minutes ago, Selred said:

Disagree about West Brom first half. We had a few let offs first half, our passing was all over the place. Weimann was at RB, King at CB, it didn’t work. As you mentioned at the time, that was a very poor performance.

I went to Reading away, one of the worst games we’ve played (ironically after beating West Brom the Tuesday before). So that also played into being fed up with Pearson and our football on Boxing Day. 

In summary, myself and many were done with Pearson and that’s fair. The club had conversations over his future then too. But since then he’s turned things around and we have done so well in 2023. But it’s fair to been critical and be finished with Pearson on Boxing Day in my opinion. 

I have a question.

With the benefit of the current hindsight we enjoy with Pearson will you give managers in the future more time or more leniency, perhaps even when you feel as though you are "done" with them?

[ashton_fan]

2 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

What do you mean by make or break exactly? Make the play offs, make the automatic promotion spots, make the top 10, make the top of half? 
 

As long as we don’t regress and financially we are improving, I see Nige here until he decides he wishes to leave. The side and ethic he has been / continues to create is one I can finally get behind. I feel real pride in the team when they leave the pitch. The players are putting a shift in week in week out, they seem an honest bunch too - no egos. Appreciate this should be the baseline but it’s been missing for sometime. Players are throwing themselves to get in the way of shots & crosses in numbers. They appear to be proud to wear the shirt - of course we want to see quality but I love the players showing fight and determination. 

I don't think our owner will accept anything less than a play-off challenge next season. He's in his 70's and wants to see us in the Premier League, he hasn't got unlimited time. I appreciate things are really good at present but we had similar runs when LJ was manager that took us near the top of the table for short periods of time, we don't know yet whether this run of form is sustainable or just an 'LJ streak', it's only a few weeks ago there were talks of demonstrations and the crowd showed their unhappiness at the WBA home game, things can change quickly in football. Probably our form will carry on improving but nothing's certain.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Selred said:

The club had conversations over his future then too.

I’m not saying they didn’t, but has this come from anyone credible?

Re West Brom, 2nd half was terrible, we couldn’t get near them…but that was a half a game one off.  It didn’t change my view that we were still a team that was improving slowly.  Will always be the odd crap game, just like the odd brilliant game.

I think too many see change as the answer.  It’s their prerogative.  But imho we never looked like a team that weren’t playing for the manager, changing the manager was the last thing we needed at that stage, both of the plan and the season with the window about to open.

I think I’m more forgiving that most, quite patient.  Someone would use the term “accepting of mediocrity”.  Nothing could be further from the truth, but I’ve rarely seen mediocrity since the start of 21/22 (end of 20/21 absolutely, but we knew a clear out was coming), I’ve seen a team trying to grow together, experiencing highs and lows and many individuals becoming better and / or realising their ability.

Nige / Pearson is a great debate, just like LJ was (still is).  Mainly because neither evaluation is black or white, the dynamics influencing that are too wide ranging.

I’m glad he’s turned people’s views around.  For me, I just struggle how people can change their minds so quickly.  That’s for me to deal with!

[harvey54]

23 hours ago, Roe said:

"we're still in the bottom half of the championship where our general aim has been to get into the play offs"

I think our general aim this season was to consolidate and try to avoid a relegation battle. I don't think many fans have genuine play off aspirations. Fwiw I'd give him a 3 year extension immediately. First proper manager we've had for decades 

Edited March 4, 2023 by harvey54

[Selred]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I have a question.

With the benefit of the current hindsight we enjoy with Pearson will you give managers in the future more time or more leniency, perhaps even when you feel as though you are "done" with them?

He was with us what, 20 months at that time? I feel that’s quite a good time to judge someone, I wasn’t in the Pearson out camp prior. 
How long should we give managers?

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m not saying they didn’t, but has this come from anyone credible?

I believe Lansdown mentioned conversations happened, when at the Senior Reds. 
Pearson himself admitted that questions should of been asked at that time.

Also nobody said in the match day thread we played played any better in the first half, it’s the opposite, I think you’re remembering the first half better than it was.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Selred

[TonyTonyTony]

7 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was with us what, 20 months at that time? I feel that’s quite a good time to judge someone, I wasn’t in the Pearson out camp prior. 
How long should we give managers?

I agree with you - at that point I was also questioning Pearson and whether he should say. I reckon it was 50:50 stay/go with the fans at that time.

[Open End Numb Legs]

I think with a manager at Pearson's stage of his career that whether they are keen to continue at a club often comes down to personal matters. I have no idea of his circumstances but his family will have thoughts, it might come down to how happy they are in the area, whether they always had a hope to retire abroad, personal health etc.

We only ever see these people on match day. Like anyone else they will have ordinary parts to their lives - one eye on the future, a property to maintain, a holiday to plan, that toilet flush that plays up. They are all human (well, not sure about Colin with those eyebrows).

My hunch is he is the type of person who would get restless and will want to carry on, particularly with the 2023 run so far.

[steviestevieneville]

9 minutes ago, Selred said:

He was with us what, 20 months at that time? I feel that’s quite a good time to judge someone, I wasn’t in the Pearson out camp prior. 
How long should we give managers?

I believe Lansdown mentioned conversations happened, when at the Senior Reds. 
Pearson himself admitted that questions should of been asked at that time.

Also nobody said in the match day thread we played played any better in the first half, it’s the opposite, I think you’re remembering the first half better than it was.

 

How long should we give managers you ask. It all depends on the circumstances the club is in when they take over. We were & continued to be in a bloody mess behind the scenes until very recently . This is why I get fed up of some fans just reacting to each game in isolation . We lost , sack him . We won he’s brilliant . 
when we won you could see we were miles off & when we lost you could understand why & take a few positives. 
players out of position , playing a back three were done because we didn’t have better options (players not ready ) . It’s not black & white as to how you give a manager time .  Imo if Pearson had come in after cotts & had the money to spend Johnson did , but without Teflon around we would of been properly knocking on the promotion door. 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, Selred said:

Also nobody said in the match day thread we played played any better in the first half, it’s the opposite, I think you’re remembering the first half better than it was.

The MDT is not really a fair reflection of a game though is it?

(I accept we judge games differently though)

[Selred]

3 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

How long should we give managers you ask. It all depends on the circumstances the club is in when they take over. We were & continued to be in a bloody mess behind the scenes until very recently . This is why I get fed up of some fans just reacting to each game in isolation . We lost , sack him . We won he’s brilliant . 
when we won you could see we were miles off & when we lost you could understand why & take a few positives. 
players out of position , playing a back three were done because we didn’t have better options (players not ready ) . It’s not black & white as to how you give a manager time .  Imo if Pearson had come in after cotts & had the money to spend Johnson did , but without Teflon around we would of been properly knocking on the promotion door. 

No, totally agree on that front. But feel like I’ve been painted as someone who is being reactionary. Me finally losing patience with Pearson after 20 months is fair enough, especially when he played King over Atkinson! However I’m also not going to pretend now we are on a great run, playing wonderful football etc that I didn’t feel that at the time. As @TonyTonyTony there was a lot of people who wouldn’t of cried if Pearson went after that game. 

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The MDT is not really a fair reflection of a game though is it?

(I accept we judge games differently though)

No, but also you’d imagine some people would of supported your first half analysis. It was dire, we were cut apart, the second half was just even worse! 

[steviestevieneville]

13 minutes ago, Selred said:

No, totally agree on that front. But feel like I’ve been painted as someone who is being reactionary. Me finally losing patience with Pearson after 20 months is fair enough, especially when he played King over Atkinson! However I’m also not going to pretend now we are on a great run, playing wonderful football etc that I didn’t feel that at the time. As @TonyTonyTony there was a lot of people who wouldn’t of cried if Pearson went after that game. 

No, but also you’d imagine some people would of supported your first half analysis. It was dire, we were cut apart, the second half was just even worse! 

The reactionary part of my post wasn’t aimed at you . However the part about playing king over Atkinson I did understand . Not in a playing sense but in a mentality sense . Some think he threw him under the bus but I didn’t see it like that . It was a kick up the ass . I think Pearson himself said Rob is very laid back . He’s obviously changed his mind set. Pearson doesn't do anything without reason imo. It’s worked . Was it worth losing a few points to get a better player long term , yes. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

He was with us what, 20 months at that time? I feel that’s quite a good time to judge someone, I wasn’t in the Pearson out camp prior. 
How long should we give managers?

Fair answer. And I made the question succinct as well. To this I'd say it's not a question of a simple, raw time frame of X months or Y games. My posts in November/December were around the fact that we shouldn't sack him because it was only results that were poor. Underlying numbers were ok, and were not indicative of a relegation candidate.

So my answer to "how long do we give managers?" is "Until it becomes clear, through analysis of all metrics, that the squad's performances are either no longer improving or are regressing. In particular we should sack them if we are posting numbers that indicate that we are a relegation candidate." Note that this deliberately does not refer to results, but to underlying performance figures. This time frame will be different for each manager. Under Pearson's first year and a half we were generally continually trending upwards in most metrics. I was therefore happy to expect that "results would come", and so give him time.

As I've said though, it's no indicator of continued success, and under a less restricted budget we might actually find he's not the best fit for us. We might plateau - in fact we kind of already are - and so it might be best to find someone new.

Edited March 4, 2023 by ExiledAjax