Blackpool fan killed at weekend

[BS15_RED]

https://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/2023/march/06/club-statement/
Really sad to hear this, no one should lose their life going to support their team. Hopefully more details will come out and we can have a minutes applause for him on Saturday. RIP.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, BS15_RED said:

https://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/2023/march/06/club-statement/
Really sad to hear this, no one should lose their life going to support their team. Hopefully more details will come out and we can have a minutes applause for him on Saturday. RIP.

I read something about this on Twitter yesterday…there was a lot of speculation at the time as to what had happened. 

Condolences to his family and friends. 

[Redinthehead]

The report I read implied it was due to an 'altercation' after the game. Awful regardless. Just horrible to think, as you say, no one should lose their life going to a football match. 

[1960maaan]

Reported to be out side the Manchester Bar , Saturday night.  Mass brawl with Burnley fans and died this morning from head injuries. 

Very sad whatever the circumstances .

[spudski]

Needs clarifying, however there are tweets saying it was Blackpool fans who attacked a pub designated for away fans, that Burnley fans were using. 

Needless violence, over football. 

[Mad Cyril]

For all the dialogue on this forum reminiscing about the terrace culture of old, "running" other fans, taking home ends etc perhaps worth just considering.... Smacking another football fan for loving a team other than yours is a bit weird isn't it. Not big, not clever, not hard. Just wrong.

[cidered abroad]

Nobody should be at unneeded risk going to work or a place of entertainment.

I fail to understand how anyone at a sporting event should have their life destroyed by person or persons just looking for a fight. How brave and big they must feel.

My sympathy to his  family and friends.

[Jerseybean]

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

[Kodjias Wrist]

1 hour ago, Mad Cyril said:

For all the dialogue on this forum reminiscing about the terrace culture of old, "running" other fans, taking home ends etc perhaps worth just considering.... Smacking another football fan for loving a team other than yours is a bit weird isn't it. Not big, not clever, not hard. Just wrong.

Agreed. Cringey as **** when you see people talking about it like its some military operation. Every club has them and they are losers. Hope they come down hard on the suspect. 

[downendcity]

14 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

Sadly, those 10 City fans were  proud of what they did that day, and doubtless they thought they did so " in the name of the club"!  

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by downendcity

[David Brent]

Saw many an embarrassing video on Twitter in relation to ‘Cardiff fans running away’ etc..Thankfully it’s usually just gesturing bollocks…but it only takes one person to go too far and ruin a family’s life forever. 

Get it out of football and our club. 

[TheReds]

42 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity

How does he come to that conclusion? It was obviously an unprovoked act by a bunch of cowards (who deserved a hiding themselves). But to conclude from that, that "most" of our support as the lowest life in the football leagues is ridiculous.

Are most of his clubs fans now the lowest life in the league due to this incident on the weekend? Of course they are not.

As for the fan that was killed (RIP) - hopefully this will make a few "bullies" think twice. 

[milo1111]

Any time anyone punches another person on the head you take the chance of killing them. Sickening really. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

53 minutes ago, TheReds said:

How does he come to that conclusion? It was obviously an unprovoked act by a bunch of cowards (who deserved a hiding themselves). But to conclude from that, that "most" of our support as the lowest life in the football leagues is ridiculous.

Are most of his clubs fans now the lowest life in the league due to this incident on the weekend? Of course they are not.

As for the fan that was killed (RIP) - hopefully this will make a few "bullies" think twice. 

Thought the same. The whole your rivals are better than you comes out so often in football. Surprised how he can remember what noises sets of fans make over others in similar situations (Promotion, relegation) I certainly can't!

We could say fact is PNE have a bigger home and away following. Actually a fact btw...

Edited March 6, 2023 by Kodjias Wrist

[Superjack]

2 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

So they were attacked by City fans and City fans stepped in to help. Yet all of our fans are the lowest life in league football. 

We have scum. So do they, in all likelihood.

[milo1111]

2 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

City fans attacking 5 and 7 years olds? Seriously. I know wev’e got our share of idiots but I’m struggling with that one. Especially with the glowing praise of the gas who have also got a hooligan element. 
 

 

[Topper 123]

1 hour ago, TheReds said:

How does he come to that conclusion? It was obviously an unprovoked act by a bunch of cowards (who deserved a hiding themselves). But to conclude from that, that "most" of our support as the lowest life in the football leagues is ridiculous.

Are most of his clubs fans now the lowest life in the league due to this incident on the weekend? Of course they are not.

As for the fan that was killed (RIP) - hopefully this will make a few "bullies" think twice. 

I was going to say apparently Burnley fans were allocated the Manchester which happens to all clubs travelling to Blackpool but it was Blackpool fans who attacked them now 2 wrongs and all that but come on to call our fans scum -stones in glass houses and yes sorry you had to put up with shit behaviour from our idiots but don’t tar everyone with that brush mind 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Magger1

[joe jordans teeth]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Needs clarifying, however there are tweets saying it was Blackpool fans who attacked a pub designated for away fans, that Burnley fans were using. 

Needless violence, over football. 

The video seems to confirm that 

[Red-Robbo]

13 minutes ago, milo1111 said:

City fans attacking 5 and 7 years olds? Seriously. I know wev’e got our share of idiots but I’m struggling with that one. Especially with the glowing praise of the gas who have also got a hooligan element. 
 

 

 

As do Blackpool.  Whose fans seem to get into more than their fair share of scraps:

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/blackpool-bolton-wanderers-fans-brawl-24302310

https://fanbanter.co.uk/wigan-and-blackpool-fans-have-punch-up-with-one-supporter-left-flat-out-on-the-ground/

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-11-05/three-charged-after-trouble-between-rival-fans-at-football-derby-game

https://www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/violence-in-lancaster-after-morecambe-v-blackpool-football-match-659073

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/football-hooligans-terrify-clitheroe-pub-staff-2589232

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10506966/blackpool-fleetwood-fans-fight-pitch-league-one/

 

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

The video seems to confirm that 

I haven't seen any video. But thanks for confirming

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

Soon as he said “most of your support” I just stopped reading to be honest.

[Numero Uno]

4 hours ago, BS15_RED said:

https://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/2023/march/06/club-statement/
Really sad to hear this, no one should lose their life going to support their team. Hopefully more details will come out and we can have a minutes applause for him on Saturday. RIP.

Depends what the story is, if it’s what it’s rumoured to be I won’t be applauding anyone on Saturday tbh.

[RedHienz]

Repugnant. Those that involve themselves in this shite tar everyone else. 

As for us, I don't buy the we need our own element to step in - pure crap. Anyone serious is out of sight and only the green street brigade are dumb enough to give it "large"

When I was 15 I got smashed in the skull with a crowbar from behind by a group of five of ours who decided I was clearly a threat as they j jumped from the bushes on Wineterstoke - disfigured for life but could of been worse. 

[BS15_RED]

49 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Depends what the story is, if it’s what it’s rumoured to be I won’t be applauding anyone on Saturday tbh.

I wasn’t aware of the full facts when I started this thread, the tributes I read didn’t make the deceased sound like a Hooligan, if it turns out that he was then I won’t be applauding either.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Percy Pig said:

I guess, trying to put myself in their shoes, if my two boys were subjected to what he described melodramatics and exaggeration would be the minimum emotion I would feel against the supporters of the team who did that. He's clearly wrong logically, but I guess that's understandable. Can't think of anything more emotionally scarring as a Dad than for your kids to be in a situation like that. 

Yep, agree with that but that means I would be less inclined to take his opinion seriously in terms of being embarrassed that most of our fanbase are low life scum. I would just take his view for what it is……..emotive based on one bad experience:

[pillred]

5 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Agreed. Cringey as **** when you see people talking about it like its some military operation. Every club has them and they are losers. Hope they come down hard on the suspect. 

The difference with the 70s hooligans was that 99% would not have been carrying any weapons, today unfortunately that's not the case the worse that happened was you got a black eye or wounded pride now you can lose your life.

[TheReds]

14 minutes ago, pillred said:

The difference with the 70s hooligans was that 99% would not have been carrying any weapons, today unfortunately that's not the case the worse that happened was you got a black eye or wounded pride now you can lose your life.

The trouble is that is the same even if you take football out of it. Remember when a fight was a fight and that was it. Now I'd be more scared of getting knifed, bottled, kicked in the head seems to accepted now as normal behaviour or a whole gang having a go at one  or two people - that's before anything that happens after the incident.

You can see what's coming with this story already, which will be "football has major problem". Conveniently forgetting all the trouble, violence, crime riddled streets of the UK day in day out - forget all that though, it will all be about ALL football fans being hooligans and violent.

[Kid in the Riot]

28 minutes ago, pillred said:

The difference with the 70s hooligans was that 99% would not have been carrying any weapons, today unfortunately that's not the case the worse that happened was you got a black eye or wounded pride now you can lose your life.

Granted I wasn't alive back in the 70s but this doesn't sound accurate based on stories I've heard from people who were over the years, or from what I have read in the likes of Hoolifan and the CSF and Soul Crew books. Knives were absolutely carried by firms back then and stabbings or slashing not uncommon. Bricks, concrete, skips being emptied, baseball bats etc all talked about. Most say it was far more wild back then. And that's before we get onto the likes of Heysel.

[weepywall]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Granted I wasn't alive back in the 70s but this doesn't sound accurate based on stories I've heard from people who were over the years, or from what I have read in the likes of Hoolifan and the CSF and Soul Crew books. Knives were absolutely carried by firms back then and stabbings or slashing not uncommon. Bricks, concrete, skips being emptied, baseball bats etc all talked about. Most say it was far more wild back then. And that's before we get onto the likes of Heysel.

Yes, it was far worse back then. I remember the lumps of concrete being thrown at Swindon, numerous stabbings, slashings etc, darts being thrown. 

[sglosbcfc]

Whatever the circumstances it is desperately sad and my thoughts are with the family of the man that died. It is however, even worse if he was an innocent bystander. If as some people are implying, he was part of a Blackpool mob that attacked a Burnley pub, he would have been aware of the risks associated with that behaviour. As I said, I'm not trying to make out it he deserved this in any way, but perhaps a reminder for us of the need to control our passion when we are at matches. 

[redkev]

8 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Nobody should be at unneeded risk going to work or a place of entertainment.

I fail to understand how anyone at a sporting event should have their life destroyed by person or persons just looking for a fight. How brave and big they must feel.

My sympathy to his  family and friends.

Not condoning what has happened at all but it’s not just football, I fail to understand being attacked and stabbed to death for living in a different post code , I fail to understand being robbed of a watch whilst walking through London . 
I think you can see what I’m getting at we live in a very disturbed cowardly world I’m afraid .

[redkev]

2 hours ago, TheReds said:

The trouble is that is the same even if you take football out of it. Remember when a fight was a fight and that was it. Now I'd be more scared of getting knifed, bottled, kicked in the head seems to accepted now as normal behaviour or a whole gang having a go at one  or two people - that's before anything that happens after the incident.

You can see what's coming with this story already, which will be "football has major problem". Conveniently forgetting all the trouble, violence, crime riddled streets of the UK day in day out - forget all that though, it will all be about ALL football fans being hooligans and violent.

Spend a weekend in London , mainly post code gang wars but loads of bike / watch thefts etc going on in broad daylight by youths on mopeds , 10 times worse than football problems but all brushed under the carpet by the corrupt mayor Khan 

[Wanderingred]

9 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

I can’t understand this way of thinking at all. I took an Asian friend of mine to a game against Reading once and a group of their fans gave him racist abuse and threatened us… I paid no attention to the team they supported, they were just racist scumbags pure and simple. I don’t go around saying how their fans are racist and that I much prefer Oxford. It’s completely irrational and the sign of a rather low IQ to be honest.

[2015]

7 hours ago, Superjack said:

So they were attacked by City fans and City fans stepped in to help. Yet all of our fans are the lowest life in league football. 

We have scum. So do they, in all likelihood.

Every club has them, unfortunately. 

A bit silly to say all of our fans are basically the same after that incident by the Blackpool fan on their forum tbh. 

[fanjita]

And what annoys me is seeing a lot of blokes in their 30s and 40s and even 50s as the ringleaders, pathetic really 

Edited March 7, 2023 by fanjita

[Eddie Hitler]

44 minutes ago, fanjita said:

And what annoys me is seeing a lot of blokes in their 30s and 40s and even 50s as the ringleaders, pathetic really 

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

[Redinthehead]

15 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

Jesus Christ. What an insane attempt at justification. 

[exAtyeoMax]

16 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

I suppose you’d assume that they would know better? Be more mature and grown up. Unfortunately that’s not always the case.

[Numero Uno]

20 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

If people want to fight then arrange it and do it out of the way of the rest of us that aren’t interested. Do it out of the way of young children etc etc. Fighting like that in front of kids, pensioners, vulnerable people and other innocent bystanders isn’t a great look I don’t think.

Your choice in life isn’t a strict “games console or scrap in the streets”.

I think it’s been established now pretty clearly that a 50 plus year old bloke thought it would be fun to attack a pub full of people supporting a different team and paid the ultimate price in doing so.

If Blackpool ask for a minutes applause on Saturday I hope we politely decline their request.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Eddie Hitler]

3 minutes ago, Redinthehead said:

Jesus Christ. What an insane attempt at justification. 

 

I do like a nice adult debate.

Step away from the blue Smarties.

[Redinthehead]

37 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I do like a nice adult debate.

Step away from the blue Smarties.

Your post didn’t give anything to debate - just a very odd attempt at justification of people fighting over football, in a thread about someone dying no less. What debate do you think you were starting and do you think this was the right place to start it?

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

There are plenty of places you can go and fight, if people are so desperate there’s plenty of boxing and MMA gyms around the country where you can go to war with someone without putting your life in danger. Obviously these fans don’t have the courage to do that so have to run around with scarfs over the heads in large groups to feel safe enough. That’s pathetic.

Anyone throwing punches on concrete is brain dead. The chances of serious injury/death are way too high to be doing so.

[TV Tom]

19 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

That or join the forces if they're so hard. 

They would of course melt in the presence of the genuinely solid men and women of our armed forces, though. 

 

What fighting do the armed forces do ?

[frenchred]

5 minutes ago, harrys said:

What fighting do the armed forces do ?

They have all got a boxing team at minimum, most have more

[iamalagerdrinker]

27 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

That or join the forces if they're so hard. 

They would of course melt in the presence of the genuinely solid men and women of our armed forces, though. 

 

The armed forces wouldn't want these thugs.. Although would sort them out! 

[OneTeamInBristol]

Terrible thing to have happened but the bloke knowingly went to the away fans pub 2 hours after the game in a group looking for trouble and unfortunately found it.

 

[Eddie Hitler]

45 minutes ago, KegCity said:

There are plenty of places you can go and fight, if people are so desperate there’s plenty of boxing and MMA gyms around the country where you can go to war with someone without putting your life in danger. Obviously these fans don’t have the courage to do that so have to run around with scarfs over the heads in large groups to feel safe enough. That’s pathetic.

Anyone throwing punches on concrete is brain dead. The chances of serious injury/death are way too high to be doing so.

 

I would suggest the appeal is the heightened excitement from the much higher level of uncertainty surrounding it: when and if a fight will kick off and of what nature it will be.

Your examples are all very regulated forms of fighting.

The sensible form of such fighting would be what the East Europeans, such as the Polish fans, carry out.

They organise their fights in isolated areas with equal numbers, no weapons and film them, you'll find them on the internet.

My objection above, which I clearly stated, was to the use of the word "pathetic" when I would say it is clearly not. I have never taken part in it nor ever will but to go up against a group of strangers in a street fight takes some guts.

That doesn't make it laudable but it equally doesn't make it pathetic.

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, OneTeamInBristol said:

Terrible thing to have happened but the bloke knowingly went to the away fans pub 2 hours after the game in a group looking for trouble and unfortunately found it.

 

That’s it in a nutshell. All I’ve read is a silly cliche that “no fan should go to a match and not come back RIP”. Well, had the 55 year old simply gone home after the match or had he gone to his own boozer for a few hours after and then home, like 99% of fans can manage, his Children and Grandchildren would have seen him again. He didn’t though, a bloke who could technically draw a private pension wanted to attack a pub full of Burnley fans for whatever reason.

[Eddie Hitler]

If anyone has a vaguely open mind rather then simply belching the usual knee jerk reaction this is worth a watch.

There is no glorification of hooliganism whatsoever, unlike within the several books published over the last twenty years, and he clearly says "I don't want to fight" but he was going to football at a time when fans going to games were prone to being attacked.

It's a lengthy piece at 46 minutes but I have cued it up at a typical example.

Obviously it's his own words and we all paint ourselves better than we are, but to me it all has the ring of truth.

It's interesting from the start if anyone has an interest in social history, he spent his teenage years holding down a job whilst living by himself in a cemetery in London which I used to walk past daily.  Though not at that time.

It's a different world these days and people, generally, choose if they wish to be involved but go back to the eighties and before that and having a few people like this standing in the way helped out many ordinay fans over the years.

 

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

36 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I would suggest the appeal is the heightened excitement from the much higher level of uncertainty surrounding it: when and if a fight will kick off and of what nature it will be.

Your examples are all very regulated forms of fighting.

The sensible form of such fighting would be what the East Europeans, such as the Polish fans, carry out.

They organise their fights in isolated areas with equal numbers, no weapons and film them, you'll find them on the internet.

My objection above, which I clearly stated, was to the use of the word "pathetic" when I would say it is clearly not. I have never taken part in it nor ever will but to go up against a group of strangers in a street fight takes some guts.

That doesn't make it laudable but it equally doesn't make it pathetic.

 

Lots of football violence is about rage due to supressed homosexual feelings if you ask me.  They are trying to prove something to themselves in order to hide a part of their psyche they know exists but they cannot face. 

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I would suggest the appeal is the heightened excitement from the much higher level of uncertainty surrounding it: when and if a fight will kick off and of what nature it will be.

Your examples are all very regulated forms of fighting.

The sensible form of such fighting would be what the East Europeans, such as the Polish fans, carry out.

They organise their fights in isolated areas with equal numbers, no weapons and film them, you'll find them on the internet.

My objection above, which I clearly stated, was to the use of the word "pathetic" when I would say it is clearly not. I have never taken part in it nor ever will but to go up against a group of strangers in a street fight takes some guts.

That doesn't make it laudable but it equally doesn't make it pathetic.

It clearly is pathetic for so many reasons. 

And probably one of the most selfish things a person could do. No self control what so ever. 

It maybe just about a fight amongst others who are like-minded.

However there are always knock on affects to others who want nothing to do with it. 

Firstly the families and children who have to live with these people and the consequences of their actions. Death, injury, jail terms, fines etc.

Then the Police, Ambulance, Paramedics,Stewards who have to put themselves at harm. 

Often property is damaged. So whoever owns the property has to pick up the tab, often pubs, bars, shops, small businesses, cars etc. The knock on affect of insurance. All goes up and costs, plus can cause trauma and fear. 

General public going about their own business, not wanting to be involved, often have to witness it, traumatising kids and woman and elderly. Affecting what they choose to do in life again. Where to go etc. 

Then it's done all in the name of a football club. 

Clubs that don't want anything to do with it. The majority of fans that don't want anything to do with it. The actions affect everyone associated with the club. Greater police presence, greater restrictions, higher costs etc, etc. 

What annoys me more, is that Blackpool FC are paying their respects to a man who went out of his way to attack Burnley fans at a pub designated for away fans. He was the aggressor, he went to harm/ injure a member of public. From the video you can clearly see him kick out and be the aggressor...he got punched and killed from someone retaliating. He could easily have been the murderer rather than deceased. 

Why would a football club offer it's respects, just because he was a life long supporter?  Would they have offered their respects if he had been the murderer? Respecting someone who went out of their way to cause damage, mame, injure another person in the name of Blackpool FC. It's all so hypocritical imo. 

Now his poor family have to live without him. All because of his selfish actions in the name of football. 

Ridiculous.

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Lots of football violence is about rage due to supressed homosexual feelings if you ask me.  They are trying to prove something to themselves in order to hide a part of their psyche they know exists but they cannot face. 

 

Violence in general probably.

To take a current example the whacked out loon calling himself "Charles Bronson" is up for parole at present.

One of his party pieces is this:

When questioned about several incidents behind bars a few years ago and why they happened, Bronson said: "I love a rumble. What man doesn't?"

The Parole Board heard he "took half a tub of Lurpak" and "greased up" after stripping naked in his cell.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64861518

 

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

It clearly is pathetic for so many reasons. 

And probably one of the most selfish things a person could do. No self control what so ever. 

It maybe just about a fight amongst others who are like-minded.

However there are always knock on affects to others who want nothing to do with it. 

Firstly the families and children who have to live with these people and the consequences of their actions. Death, injury, jail terms, fines etc.

Then the Police, Ambulance, Paramedics,Stewards who have to put themselves at harm. 

Often property is damaged. So whoever owns the property has to pick up the tab, often pubs, bars, shops, small businesses, cars etc. The knock on affect of insurance. All goes up and costs, plus can cause trauma and fear. 

General public going about their own business, not wanting to be involved, often have to witness it, traumatising kids and woman and elderly. Affecting what they choose to do in life again. Where to go etc. 

Then it's done all in the name of a football club. 

Clubs that don't want anything to do with it. The majority of fans that don't want anything to do with it. The actions affect everyone associated with the club. Greater police presence, greater restrictions, higher costs etc, etc. 

What annoys me more, is that Blackpool FC are paying their respects to a man who went out of his way to attack Burnley fans at a pub designated for away fans. He was the aggressor, he went to harm/ injure a member of public. From the video you can clearly see him kick out and be the aggressor...he got punched and killed from someone retaliating. He could easily have been the murderer rather than deceased. 

Why would a football club offer it's respects, just because he was a life long supporter?  Would they have offered their respects if he had been the murderer? Respecting someone who went out of their way to cause damage, mame, injure another person in the name of Blackpool FC. It's all so hypocritical imo. 

Now his poor family have to live without him. All because of his selfish actions in the name of football. 

Ridiculous.

 

How is that different from driving so reckllessly that you crash and fly off so far from the road that it takes days to find the car, killing three people?

This takes up loads of police and emergency services time and leaves families bereaved.

Yet people aren't queueing up to call the driver in this recent fatal crash "pathetic" because it isn't one of their hobby horses.

 

Cardiff car crash: Mum criticises two-day search to find group

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64872517

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

How is that different from driving so reckllessly that you crash and fly off so far from the road that it takes days to find the car, killing three people?

This takes up loads of police and emergency services time and leaves families bereaved.

Yet people aren't queueing up to call the driver in this recent fatal crash "pathetic" because it isn't one of their hobby horses.

 

Cardiff car crash: Mum criticises two-day search to find group

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64872517

Holy whataboutism.

If he was driving recklessly or drunk etc. resulting in people dying then loads of people would be calling it out. What are you on about? How is this even relevant?

Is your point that people are accepting of reckless/drunk driving?? Bizarre.

I think you'll find drink driving or poor driving are many more people's "hobby horses" than football violence, imo.

Edited March 7, 2023 by IAmNick

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Holy whataboutism.

If he was driving recklessly or drunk etc. resulting in people dying then loads of people would be calling it out. What are you on about? How is this even relevant?

Is your point that people are accepting of reckless/drunk driving?? Bizarre.

I think you'll find drink driving or poor driving are many more people's "hobby horses" than football violence, imo.

 

Not on this board they aren't.

And it's an absolutely clear parallel; trotting out a stock internet phrase doesn't change that.

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

How is that different from driving so reckllessly that you crash and fly off so far from the road that it takes days to find the car, killing three people?

This takes up loads of police and emergency services time and leaves families bereaved.

Yet people aren't queueing up to call the driver in this recent fatal crash "pathetic" because it isn't one of their hobby horses.

 

Cardiff car crash: Mum criticises two-day search to find group

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64872517

I haven't said it was. And I don't know the circumstances of this case.

However...anyone that does something on purpose that puts others lives at risk is imo, selfish and often pathetic. 

[cidercity1987]

23 minutes ago, spudski said:

It clearly is pathetic for so many reasons. 

And probably one of the most selfish things a person could do. No self control what so ever. 

It maybe just about a fight amongst others who are like-minded.

However there are always knock on affects to others who want nothing to do with it. 

Firstly the families and children who have to live with these people and the consequences of their actions. Death, injury, jail terms, fines etc.

Then the Police, Ambulance, Paramedics,Stewards who have to put themselves at harm. 

Often property is damaged. So whoever owns the property has to pick up the tab, often pubs, bars, shops, small businesses, cars etc. The knock on affect of insurance. All goes up and costs, plus can cause trauma and fear. 

General public going about their own business, not wanting to be involved, often have to witness it, traumatising kids and woman and elderly. Affecting what they choose to do in life again. Where to go etc. 

Then it's done all in the name of a football club. 

Clubs that don't want anything to do with it. The majority of fans that don't want anything to do with it. The actions affect everyone associated with the club. Greater police presence, greater restrictions, higher costs etc, etc. 

What annoys me more, is that Blackpool FC are paying their respects to a man who went out of his way to attack Burnley fans at a pub designated for away fans. He was the aggressor, he went to harm/ injure a member of public. From the video you can clearly see him kick out and be the aggressor...he got punched and killed from someone retaliating. He could easily have been the murderer rather than deceased. 

Why would a football club offer it's respects, just because he was a life long supporter?  Would they have offered their respects if he had been the murderer? Respecting someone who went out of their way to cause damage, mame, injure another person in the name of Blackpool FC. It's all so hypocritical imo. 

Now his poor family have to live without him. All because of his selfish actions in the name of football. 

Ridiculous.

Bang on Spudski

Lighting the Blackpool Tower, squad and manager involvement, book of condolence, floral tributes. All wrong.

A hooligan cannot be scum to society in life and revered in death. What a confliction.

I truly hope we do nothing to facilitate a silence or clap on the weekend.

[Eddie Hitler]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I haven't said it was. And I don't know the circumstances of this case.

However...anyone that does something on purpose that puts others lives at risk is imo, selfish and often pathetic. 

 

Now I do agree with that.

I was going to "like" but my daily ration is used.

[spudski]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Bang on Spudski

Lighting the Blackpool Tower, squad and manager involvement, book of condolence, floral tributes. All wrong.

A hooligan cannot be scum to society in life and revered in death. What a confliction.

I truly hope we do nothing to facilitate a silence or clap on the weekend.

Not just seen as scum by society, but also seen as scum and distanced by Football Clubs. 

The hypocrisy is ridiculous. 

The deceased went to injure other people in the name of Blackpool FC. 

 

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I would suggest the appeal is the heightened excitement from the much higher level of uncertainty surrounding it: when and if a fight will kick off and of what nature it will be.

Your examples are all very regulated forms of fighting.

The sensible form of such fighting would be what the East Europeans, such as the Polish fans, carry out.

They organise their fights in isolated areas with equal numbers, no weapons and film them, you'll find them on the internet.

My objection above, which I clearly stated, was to the use of the word "pathetic" when I would say it is clearly not. I have never taken part in it nor ever will but to go up against a group of strangers in a street fight takes some guts.

That doesn't make it laudable but it equally doesn't make it pathetic.

It is pathetic, putting on a coat with some goggles and chucking bottles at each other doesn't take guts. It's an easy way to think you're a big man and maybe throw a haymaker at someone. Fighting someone fairly in a ring or a cage takes guts which people like this don't have. I understand why someone would do it, it's an easy to way to get some adrenaline going, it's just moronic when anyone can go and have a proper fight in a room with mats where they're not going to have their head cracked open when they get knocked down.

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Now I do agree with that.

I was going to "like" but my daily ration is used.

Isn't that exactly what hooligans are looking to do? Injure someone else, put their's and others life at risk. And ignore all the consequences of their actions. That's what you were originally implying wasn't pathetic

Edited March 7, 2023 by spudski

[Eddie Hitler]

Just now, spudski said:

Isn't that exactly what hooligans are looking to do? Injure someone else, put there's and others life at risk. And ignore all the consequences of their actions. That's what you were originally implying wasn't pathetic

 

Only with respect to hooligans as couched in the lazy monotone pen portraits of people like @KegCity above.

Watch a few minutes of the cued up Bill Gardner interview if you would like to develop a more informed and nuanced view.

And he certainly would never have described himself as a hooligan and would actively have rejected the term.

[Silvio Dante]

I’ve made my feelings on hooligans/“football” violence clear previously - if blokes want to have a dust up, have a dust up. However don’t do it in the name of a club who don’t condone that activity, or do it where people who don’t want to be involved in it get caught in the crossfire. 

As for this incident, I totally get the original outpouring of grief, support and emotion as it was originally reported as “fan dies after game”.

If, however, facts have become clear subsequently that suggest the deceased deliberately went to start a fight - in no way did he deserve to die, but equally in no way does he deserve to be celebrated by football more widely. 
 

I think that’s the bottom line here.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Only with respect to hooligans as couched in the lazy monotone pen portraits of people like @KegCity above.

Watch a few minutes of the cued up Bill Gardner interview if you would like to develop a more informed and nuanced view.

And he certainly would never have described himself as a hooligan and would actively have rejected the term.

I've read numerous books on hooliganism and the reasoning behind it. 

Desmond Morris's The Soccer Tribe being the most information.

I've a balanced view and understand it.

However...it still comes down to having No respect for the consequences and actions to others who don't wish to be involved. Often by default. 

It also often shows a lack of self respect and failings in other parts of their lives.

If they had fulfilled lives they wouldn't need it. 

It's misguided. And totally selfish. And yes imo...pathetic.

[daored]

Pretty sick to think there is a video in circulation of the incident 

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

If anyone has a vaguely open mind rather then simply belching the usual knee jerk reaction this is worth a watch.

There is no glorification of hooliganism whatsoever, unlike within the several books published over the last twenty years, and he clearly says "I don't want to fight" but he was going to football at a time when fans going to games were prone to being attacked.

It's a lengthy piece at 46 minutes but I have cued it up at a typical example.

Obviously it's his own words and we all paint ourselves better than we are, but to me it all has the ring of truth.

It's interesting from the start if anyone has an interest in social history, he spent his teenage years holding down a job whilst living by himself in a cemetery in London which I used to walk past daily.  Though not at that time.

It's a different world these days and people, generally, choose if they wish to be involved but go back to the eighties and before that and having a few people like this standing in the way helped out many ordinay fans over the years.

 

 

To me it just comes across as a bit sad. Talking about "the best fighting the best" and talking about backing people up flights of stairs. Everyone has their thrills I suppose but I can't wrap my head around it and the glorification of it. If you want to fight and prove you're the best or whatever else then there's actual ways of doing so where you don't risk a manslaughter charge or getting your own head cracked open.

[Topper 123]

Unfortunately this debate of fighting mobs has been done to death and will never go away teddy boys v greasers / mods v rockers , skinheads suede heads  punk rockers  gangs that go back and back and who’s members were your dad /your grandad or his dad and this goes right back through time ,these kids are not the problem ( tell that to the Blackpool family who lost that member ) this is a unusual occurrence a death at footy , very rare , the violence at football nowadays very rare but that said 1 death is too many RIP 

 

[IAmNick]

59 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Not on this board they aren't.

And it's an absolutely clear parallel; trotting out a stock internet phrase doesn't change that.

It's not a parallel at all.

Obviously people are more likely to discuss football violence on a football forum.

And there is no relation... and it's not an internet phrase, it's a well known phrase from the cold war era with a clear meaning. Either way, one being true (drink driving takes up emergency service time) has no bearing on the fact that football violence does. One doesn't make the other OK or not, and you can call one thing out without having to call out every other example.

[Eddie Hitler]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

To me it just comes across as a bit sad. Talking about "the best fighting the best" and talking about backing people up flights of stairs. Everyone has their thrills I suppose but I can't wrap my head around it and the glorification of it. If you want to fight and prove you're the best or whatever else then there's actual ways of doing so where you don't risk a manslaughter charge or getting your own head cracked open.

 

There are indeed such ways.

What I am trying to point out is that anyone with a lengthy history of following City, going back to the mid eighties or earlier, will probbaly have had reason to be grateful to have had a "firm" on their side given that an opposition "firm" was looking for trouble.

The Bill Gardner video, and yes I'm referencing again, is incident after incident of his being there when fans were attacked and defending them.

I haven't listened to it for a while but his defence could take the form of stepping forwards despite being heavily outnumbered in order to allow the normal / not looking for a fight fans he was with to avoid being attacked.  Okay all his version of it but the one time he did come to trial he was found not guilty.

I'm not defending some nasty scrote with a Stanley knife here but pointing out that there have been times in the past when Bristol City fans will have been grateful that an element of their fans have been up for a fight because it meant that they didn't have to be.

That's very far from glorifying it IMO.

[Eddie Hitler]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

It's not a parallel at all.

Obviously people are more likely to discuss football violence on a football forum.

And there is no relation... and it's not an internet phrase, it's a well known phrase from the cold war era with a clear meaning. Either way, one being true (drink driving takes up emergency service time) has no bearing on the fact that football violence does. One doesn't make the other OK or not, and you can call one thing out without having to call out every other example.

 

I'm not calling either OK.

I am pointing out that one form of reckless behaviour in dangerous or reckless driving, which kills and injures far more people than football violence, does not attract the same shouts of ire and disgust despite it being something which people make the choice to do.

I was pulling this example out because it happened on the same day and yet there is no queue of people lining up to call the driver "pathetic" despite their killing two or three people.