Blackpool fan killed at weekend

[Topper 123]

8 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

There are indeed such ways.

What I am trying to point out is that anyone with a lengthy history of following City, going back to the mid eighties or earlier, will probbaly have had reason to be grateful to have had a "firm" on their side given that an opposition "firm" was looking for trouble.

The Bill Gardner video, and yes I'm referencing again, is incident after incident of his being there when fans were attacked and defending them.

I haven't listened to it for a while but his defence could take the form of stepping forwards despite being heavily outnumbered in order to allow the normal / not looking for a fight fans he was with to avoid being attacked.  Okay all his version of it but the one time he did come to trial he was found not guilty.

I'm not defending some nasty scrote with a Stanley knife here but pointing out that there have been times in the past when Bristol City fans will have been grateful that an element of their fans have been up for a fight because it meant that they didn't have to be.

That's very far from glorifying it IMO.

This is true mate and I’ve witnessed it on quite a few occasions through 70s 80s 90s and noughties 

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

There are indeed such ways.

What I am trying to point out is that anyone with a lengthy history of following City, going back to the mid eighties or earlier, will probbaly have had reason to be grateful to have had a "firm" on their side given that an opposition "firm" was looking for trouble.

 

Just on this point, and I remember making it when Paul Lumber made a visit to the forum.

One often cited excuse for “firms” is that it was cultural, and if you didn’t want to get involved you didn’t.

However, equally, as you say above City fans may have been grateful to have a firm on their side bearing in mind another firm was looking for trouble.

Respectfully, both of those statements can’t be true. If firms only fight like minded individuals then I, as someone with no interest in violence, have no need for the protection of the city firm.

So, the only conclusion from this statements that “firms” involved in violence aren’t guys out to fight like minded individuals but instead are low life scumbags who’ll punch anybody.

And that’s far worse than sitting on a games console.

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

3 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I'm not calling either OK.

I am pointing out that one form of reckless behaviour in dangerous or reckless driving, which kills and injures far more people than football violence, does not attract the same shouts of ire and disgust despite it being something which people make the choice to do.

I was pulling this example out because it happened on the same day and yet there is no queue of people lining up to call the driver "pathetic" despite their killing two or three people.

I assume you are referring to the tragic accident in Cardiff that resulted in three young people losing their lives.

To the best of my knowledge, the full circumstances have yet to be established and whilst, given that the accident occurred in the early hours of the morning after the group in question had apparently visited a number of bars, assumptions will, of course, be made, I think it is a bit too soon to be suggesting alcohol or poor driving was the underlying cause.

The vehicle may have swerved to avoid an animal or a tyre may have suffered a blow out.

[Eddie Hitler]

Just now, Magger1 said:

This is true mate and I’ve witnessed it on quite a few occasions through 70s 80s 90s and noughties 

 

Thank you for confirming this, Magger.  Everyone else must either have very short memories or just be very ungrateful to people who have protected them.

 

[IAmNick]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I'm not calling either OK.

I am pointing out that one form of reckless behaviour in dangerous or reckless driving, which kills and injures far more people than football violence, does not attract the same shouts of ire and disgust despite it being something which people make the choice to do.

I was pulling this example out because it happened on the same day and yet there is no queue of people lining up to call the driver "pathetic" despite their killing two or three people.

What. There's stuff all over the place about drink driving. On TV, in pubs/clubs, in the driving test, it's absolutely everywhere.

It's way more of a talking point that football violence (unless you're on a football forum, shock horror).

5 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

There are indeed such ways.

What I am trying to point out is that anyone with a lengthy history of following City, going back to the mid eighties or earlier, will probbaly have had reason to be grateful to have had a "firm" on their side given that an opposition "firm" was looking for trouble.

The Bill Gardner video, and yes I'm referencing again, is incident after incident of his being there when fans were attacked and defending them.

I haven't listened to it for a while but his defence could take the form of stepping forwards despite being heavily outnumbered in order to allow the normal / not looking for a fight fans he was with to avoid being attacked.  Okay all his version of it but the one time he did come to trial he was found not guilty.

I'm not defending some nasty scrote with a Stanley knife here but pointing out that there have been times in the past when Bristol City fans will have been grateful that an element of their fans have been up for a fight because it meant that they didn't have to be.

That's very far from glorifying it IMO.

Wasn't the opposition firm just protecting their fans from ours though?

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

22 hours ago, Mad Cyril said:

For all the dialogue on this forum reminiscing about the terrace culture of old, "running" other fans, taking home ends etc perhaps worth just considering.... Smacking another football fan for loving a team other than yours is a bit weird isn't it. Not big, not clever, not hard. Just wrong.

My best mate is a Rovers fan. 

[Eddie Hitler]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Just on this point, and I remember making it when Paul Lumber made a visit to the forum.

One often cited excuse for “firms” is that it was cultural, and if you didn’t want to get involved you didn’t.

However, equally, as you say above City fans may have been grateful to have a firm on their side bearing in mind another firm was looking for trouble.

Respectfully, both of those statements can’t be true. If firms only fight like minded individuals then I, as someone with no interest in violence, have no need for the protection of the city firm.

So, the only conclusion from this statements that “firms” involved in violence aren’t guys out to fight like minded individuals but instead are low life scumbags who’ll punch anybody.

And that’s far worse than sitting on a games console.

 

 

You are the one making the assertion that firms only fought each other; I am very clearly not asserting this and am actually saying the opposite by noting that they often served as protection for the non-fighting fans of the same club.

And the games console example was not about which was objectively worse but specifically which was most pathetic.

[IAmNick]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

And the games console example was not about which was objectively worse but specifically which was most pathetic.

Easy answer: Going out and fighting in the streets is infinitely more pathetic than playing games.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

You are the one making the assertion that firms only fought each other; I am very clearly not asserting this and am actually saying the opposite by noting that they often served as protection for the non-fighting fans of the same club.

And the games console example was not about which was objectively worse but specifically which was most pathetic.

Isn’t the point that if two firms are only there for protection of shirters there won’t be a fight?

[Eddie Hitler]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

Isn’t the point that if two firms are only there for protection of shirters there won’t be a fight?

 

They aren't that though. I haven't said that.

You have crowbarred in the word "only" to that sentence where it doesn't belong.

I'm not particularly having a go at you but there a lot of straw man arguments going on here as people dust off old posts to give them another airing.

[spudski]

14 minutes ago, daored said:

Pretty sick to think there is a video in circulation of the incident 

It's thought provoking in many ways, and just goes to show how hypocritical we are as a human race. 

No family, friend or relative wants to see their loved one killed. 

So much is shared in various forms, censored or uncensored. 

Think how much is shown of people being killed in Sport, accidents, terrorism, war etc. All have relatives and families. Yet no one seems to question this. 

Especially right now as an example with the Ukraine war. Everyday, footage being uploaded by both sides showing death, people being killed. Frontline uploads. Executions. 

Fighting, killing, injuring is such a complex topic. 

Doing it in the name of country, government, flag,  war, belief ( terrorism). 

You can ' lawfully ' kill, decided by people in power. Does that make it right...because a few decided it was? 

Think how hypocritical we are as humans, where we deplore violence in general, but will pay to watch and be entertained by boxing and cage fighting. Where the intention is to knock someone out, injure them. Often the injuries life changing. And we pay to enjoy it, because it's legalised. Loosely..the only difference I can see, compared to hooliganism is it's controlled, legal, insured, rules. If someone dies from their injuries, it's seen as a tragic accident...yet the intention is to do as much harm as possible!

It's like sticking your head under a guillotine hanging by a thread and saying it's a tragic accident when the thread breaks. 

I've often wondered where the laws stands with Ice Hockey where punching the crap out of one another is allowed and part of the game. If someone dies from a punch... manslaughter, murder?

The same with football...a player reacts to a physical challenge and throws an elbow to the head...someone dies. Is it part of the game? Challenges have happened in football and people have died...a challenge within the rules or a reaction out of the rules can be all the difference. 

The disparity between the cotton wool society we live in, H&S and the opposite end of fighting, killing within ' rules and laws' is often mind boggling when you step back and think about the bigger picture. 

I've massively digressed, but it's all relevent on how we react and judge violence.

 

 

 

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

It's thought provoking in many ways, and just goes to show how hypocritical we are as a human race. 

No family, friend or relative wants to see their loved one killed. 

So much is shared in various forms, censored or uncensored. 

Think how much is shown of people being killed in Sport, accidents, terrorism, war etc. All have relatives and families. Yet no one seems to question this. 

Especially right now as an example with the Ukraine war. Everyday, footage being uploaded by both sides showing death, people being killed. Frontline uploads. Executions. 

Fighting, killing, injuring is such a complex topic. 

Doing it in the name of country, government, flag,  war, belief ( terrorism). 

You can ' lawfully ' kill, decided by people in power. Does that make it right...because a few decided it was? 

Think how hypocritical we are as humans, where we deplore violence in general, but will pay to watch and be entertained by boxing and cage fighting. Where the intention is to knock someone out, injure them. Often the injuries life changing. And we pay to enjoy it, because it's legalised. Loosely..the only difference I can see, compared to hooliganism is it's controlled, legal, insured, rules. If someone dies from their injuries, it's seen as a tragic accident...yet the intention is to do as much harm as possible!

It's like sticking your head under a guillotine hanging by a thread and saying it's a tragic accident when the thread breaks. 

I've often wondered where the laws stands with Ice Hockey where punching the crap out of one another is allowed and part of the game. If someone dies from a punch... manslaughter, murder?

The same with football...a player reacts to a physical challenge and throws an elbow to the head...someone dies. Is it part of the game? Challenges have happened in football and people have died...a challenge within the rules or a reaction out of the rules can be all the difference. 

The disparity between the cotton wool society we live in, H&S and the opposite end of fighting, killing within ' rules and laws' is often mind boggling when you step back and think about the bigger picture. 

I've massively digressed, but it's all relevent on how we react and judge violence.

 

 

 

and in Rugby, it was ‘part of the game’, widely accepted that punching was fine. The fans loved a good punch up and in society it was generally deemed acceptable as they all shook hands and had a beer after the game. 

[Major Isewater]

15 minutes ago, Rob k said:

generally deemed acceptable as they all shook hands and had a beer after the game. 

Except the players in A&E . 

[Banjo Red]

Sadly every club has these idiots they just need to **** off and let real fans enjoy the game as it's supposed to be. If they want a punch up go do it on your own time and not in the name of any football team. Stamp out racism and stamp out hooliganism.

[Numero Uno]

35 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

They aren't that though. I haven't said that.

You have crowbarred in the word "only" to that sentence where it doesn't belong.

I'm not particularly having a go at you but there a lot of straw man arguments going on here as people dust off old posts to give them another airing.

My view is simple on this. If you want a row then organise it out of harms way. In terms of the Blackpool fan if there is a minutes applause I will just stay silent tbf rather than boo or ruin it but I hope the club show a bit more sense than to hold one.

[Oh Louie louie]

Jesus finding somewhere in Blackpool out of harms way, thats a job, no joking last time I went I saw three rows before I got to the north pier, a domestic a drugs argument, and someone getting dragged out a pub

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

My view is simple on this. If you want a row then organise it out of harms way. In terms of the Blackpool fan if there is a minutes applause I will just stay silent tbf rather than boo or ruin it but I hope the club show a bit more sense than to hold one.

It's definitely a thought provoking subject @Numero Uno 

Even having an organised brawl out of harm's way, who picks up the pieces of the injured?

Paramedics, Police, Courts, lawyers, hospital beds etc, etc. They can all be involved. 

Taking up time and resources needed elsewhere. 

Again theirs the counter argument of smoking, alcoholism, drugs etc...people do it knowing it can cause harm. 

It's so complex. 

 

[Unan]

14 hours ago, redkev said:

Spend a weekend in London , mainly post code gang wars but loads of bike / watch thefts etc going on in broad daylight by youths on mopeds , 10 times worse than football problems but all brushed under the carpet by the corrupt mayor Khan 

That’s weird, I’ve spent 350 weekends here (and the weekdays in between), I’ve never seen a single incident in person.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Marcus Aurelius

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's definitely a thought provoking subject @Numero Uno 

Even having an organised brawl out of harm's way, who picks up the pieces of the injured?

Paramedics, Police, Courts, lawyers, hospital beds etc, etc. They can all be involved. 

Taking up time and resources needed elsewhere. 

 

 

 

They also are used to justify the oppressive measures that football fans have to put up with at games. Heavy handed policing and in-ground restrictions. 

Whether it's near grounds or miles away in an organised tear-up, people fighting in the name of football teams tarnish the sport and harm its reputation with others.

Even if no "civillians" are caught in the crossfire, those of us who go to watch football rather than to dress up as nondies and grapple with other men, suffer the consequences. 

[Barrs Court Red]

I’m surprised it’s crept back in, although seemingly spurred on by social media. 
 

Authorities are seemingly slow to adapt to emerging trends, and it’s not just football - look at how there seems to be concerted efforts to get into venues now without tickets, directly causing deaths already. 

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

They also are used to justify the oppressive measures that football fans have to put up with at games. Heavy handed policing and in-ground restrictions. 

Whether it's near grounds or miles away in an organised tear-up, people fighting in the name of football teams tarnish the sport and harm its reputation with others.

Even if no "civillians" are caught in the crossfire, those of us who go to watch football rather than to dress up as nondies and grapple with other men, suffer the consequences. 

Indeed, as I pointed out in my earlier post. 

There are always consequences and those that have to have their lives affected in a negative way because of their selfish actions.

[Red-Robbo]

40 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

That’s weird, I’ve spent 350 weekends here (and the weekdays in between), I’ve never seen a single incident in person.

 

I lived there for 19 years and saw zero pub fights, whereas I've witnessed a fair few in the small country towns of Somerset since my return.

Had me bike nicked in London, but then, had my car nicked in Bournemouth and flat burgled in Southampton before then.  Crimes have increased at a slower rate in London than the English average, according to the ONS. 

 

[Unan]

12 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I lived there for 19 years and saw zero pub fights, whereas I've witnessed a fair few in the small country towns of Somerset since my return.

Had me bike nicked in London, but then, had my car nicked in Bournemouth and flat burgled in Southampton before then.  Crimes have increased at a slower rate in London than the English average, according to the ONS. 

 

It’s a funny narrative to me, I won’t suggest it’s politically based, but at a minimum is obviously fuelled by slapdash journalists that get paid to knock up 5 controversial/click bait articles per day. 
 

I don’t really care enough to find sources but I’ve read, from peer reviewed studies in accredited journals, that the knife crime, per 100,000 people, is worse in New York (considering they also have guns), and about half a dozen other countries in Europe. I’m much more included to believe these studies that take months, if not years, to produce, rather than some more.. questionable sources.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Marcus Aurelius

[Major Isewater]

19 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I lived there for 19 years and saw zero pub fights, whereas I've witnessed a fair few in the small country towns of Somerset since my return.

Had me bike nicked in London, but then, had my car nicked in Bournemouth and flat burgled in Southampton before then.  Crimes have increased at a slower rate in London than the English average, according to the ONS. 

 

Is your middle name ‘Lucky’? 

[Homer Simpson]

36 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I lived there for 19 years and saw zero pub fights, whereas I've witnessed a fair few in the small country towns of Somerset since my return.

Had me bike nicked in London, but then, had my car nicked in Bournemouth and flat burgled in Southampton before then.  Crimes have increased at a slower rate in London than the English average, according to the ONS. 

 

Bloody hell, what a day you had there.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

2 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

They also are used to justify the oppressive measures that football fans have to put up with at games. Heavy handed policing and in-ground restrictions. 

Whether it's near grounds or miles away in an organised tear-up, people fighting in the name of football teams tarnish the sport and harm its reputation with others.

Even if no "civillians" are caught in the crossfire, those of us who go to watch football rather than to dress up as nondies and grapple with other men, suffer the consequences. 

It boils my piss that one man's brawl is another man's freedom curtailed; I avoid certain games becuase of this.    We should dig a big hole, name it the 1980's, throw all the wannabe hoolies into the hole and let them fight it out until one remains, and we will crown that hoolies team the loser. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Is your middle name ‘Lucky’? 

 

Shit car. Did me a favour. Re: the flat: they took 5 French francs, drank some vodka (but didn't take the bottle) and took a cassette of Sonic Temple by The Cult (which was also shit). My flatmate by comparison lost £400 in holiday money.

I did like the bike though. 

[Eddie Hitler]

46 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Shit car. Did me a favour. Re: the flat: they took 5 French francs, drank some vodka (but didn't take the bottle) and took a cassette of Sonic Temple by The Cult (which was also shit). My flatmate by comparison lost £400 in holiday money.

I did like the bike though. 

 

Edie (Ciao Baby) was excellent but the rest of the album was unexciting.

I read that they had a new drummer for that album and whilst he was excellent he was more of an orthodox rock drummer so they sounded heavy metal whereas their previous drummer had more swing making them sound more unique.

Guns and Roses also lost their unique sound when they gave their original drummer the push.

[Red-Robbo]

19 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Edie (Ciao Baby) was excellent but the rest of the album was unexciting.

I read that they had a new drummer for that album and whilst he was excellent he was more of an orthodox rock drummer so they sounded heavy metal whereas their previous drummer had more swing making them sound more unique.

Guns and Roses also lost their unique sound when they gave their original drummer the push.

 

In view of what could've been taken, I got off lightly.

Sunday afternoon break-in.  They got in through a bathroom window that only a small child or midget would've been able to clamber through. 

[Eddie Hitler]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

In view of what could've been taken, I got off lightly.

Sunday afternoon break-in.  They got in through a bathroom window that only a small child or midget would've been able to clamber through. 

 

An old workmate had all of his kids' presents stolen from under the tree just before Christmas one year, he said his reaction alternated between rage and crying.

From the few people I know who have been burgled it seems to be mainly sheer bad luck and partly your physical environment - how accessible is your home and how likely can they be unobserved.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

A regurgitation of far right media tropes against a slightly left leaning Muslim mayor. 

I am Jack's lack of surprise.

 

Edit: post and topic is slightly political, apologies to the forum police who's day that will ruin.

Number of police recorded knife or sharp instrument offences in London from 2015/16 to 2021/22

2021/22	11,122
2020/21	10,150
2019/20	15,928
2018/19	14,902
2017/18	14,731
2016/17	12,077
2015/16	9,752

Yes nothing to see here! Its all the far rights fault 

[Oh Louie louie]

Crimes got so bad in South Bristol, drug dealers been posing as jehovas witnesses, police worked it out when people kept letting them in

[MarcusX]

9 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Some blokes like fighting and football offers an opportunity to do that in company.

It's okay to disapprove as there are plenty of negative consequences from it but I don't see why it's particularly "pathetic" and how their age matters.

Is it perfectly fine for a teenager or adult to spend hours a day on a games console? That's something I would regard as pathetic personally.

Growing up, video games were a safe space for me in an abusive home (more emotional than physical)

I stayed in on video games while the people I'd call my mates went out and caused trouble, took drugs and generally set themselves on the wrong path for life. most of those people I still know, have done very little with their lives.

I learned communication skills through gaming, I learned about other cultures and people. I joined teams and then learned to build websites due to the interest I had in it. I also experimented with Photoshop, recording of game footage and video editing. Gaming in my teenage years, although I'd say I was probably borderline addicted, definitely set me up with skills that have served me well in my career.

It's also now possible to make a decent living through streaming, content creation, walkthroughs and gaming guides etc. I think YouTube and the explosion of streaming came just a bit too late for me.

I can't even be arsed to argue the first part, but I thought that last comment was worth picking up on. If nothing else, having a hobby that you enjoy is far from pathetic.

[In the Net]

4 hours ago, Banjo Red said:

Sadly every club has these idiots they just need to **** off and let real fans enjoy the game as it's supposed to be. If they want a punch up go do it on your own time and not in the name of any football team. Stamp out racism and stamp out hooliganism.

Spot on.  It always amuses me when a set of fans point the finger at another club, because their fans have been involved in an "incident" - I don't think there's a club in the league that is entitled to throw the first stone.  Sadly, I think that FV is on the increase, for quite a few years it was mainly a lot of shouting and gesturing between rival groups, seems to be an increase in actual physical exchanges in the last couple of seasons. Maybe the UK should introduce a "One Punch" law, which seems to have been effective in Australia. 

[glynriley]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

In view of what could've been taken, I got off lightly.

Sunday afternoon break-in.  They got in through a bathroom window that only a small child or midget would've been able to clamber through. 

Protected by a silver spoon..?

[bexhill reds]

18 hours ago, redkev said:

Spend a weekend in London , mainly post code gang wars but loads of bike / watch thefts etc going on in broad daylight by youths on mopeds , 10 times worse than football problems but all brushed under the carpet by the corrupt mayor Khan 

BS... stop reading the Daily Mail. I work in the centre of London and have commuted in for over 20 years, often coming home at night from London Bridge and Victoria via West End tube lines in various states of inebriation and never felt unsafe. London is no different to any major city with its social issues, indeed Bristol seems to be having enough of gang related grief these days. Funny how the line is always about the corrupt Mayor Khan.... I wonder why...It's never about his predecessor the definitely corrupt Mayor Johnson

[Eddie Hitler]

19 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Growing up, video games were a safe space for me in an abusive home (more emotional than physical)

I stayed in on video games while the people I'd call my mates went out and caused trouble, took drugs and generally set themselves on the wrong path for life. most of those people I still know, have done very little with their lives.

I learned communication skills through gaming, I learned about other cultures and people. I joined teams and then learned to build websites due to the interest I had in it. I also experimented with Photoshop, recording of game footage and video editing. Gaming in my teenage years, although I'd say I was probably borderline addicted, definitely set me up with skills that have served me well in my career.

It's also now possible to make a decent living through streaming, content creation, walkthroughs and gaming guides etc. I think YouTube and the explosion of streaming came just a bit too late for me.

I can't even be arsed to argue the first part, but I thought that last comment was worth picking up on. If nothing else, having a hobby that you enjoy is far from pathetic.

 

And you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

As I am to mine.

[MarcusX]

7 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Only with respect to hooligans as couched in the lazy monotone pen portraits of people like @KegCity above.

Watch a few minutes of the cued up Bill Gardner interview if you would like to develop a more informed and nuanced view.

And he certainly would never have described himself as a hooligan and would actively have rejected the term.

You actually trying to say Bill Gardner wasn’t a hooligan?  he might not describe himself that way, but that’s what he is/was.

Being grateful for your teams firm being there seems such a fallacy to me. You wouldn’t need them if their like didn’t exist in the first place - and don’t for one minute think there wasn’t an innocent fan somewhere else being saved from Bill Gardners lot at some point.

[Eddie Hitler]

21 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

You actually trying to say Bill Gardner wasn’t a hooligan?  he might not describe himself that way, but that’s what he is/was.

Being grateful for your teams firm being there seems such a fallacy to me. You wouldn’t need them if their like didn’t exist in the first place - and don’t for one minute think there wasn’t an innocent fan somewhere else being saved from Bill Gardners lot at some point.

 

The world is however as it is; and not as we would like it to be.

[redkev]

1 hour ago, bexhill reds said:

BS... stop reading the Daily Mail. I work in the centre of London and have commuted in for over 20 years, often coming home at night from London Bridge and Victoria via West End tube lines in various states of inebriation and never felt unsafe. London is no different to any major city with its social issues, indeed Bristol seems to be having enough of gang related grief these days. Funny how the line is always about the corrupt Mayor Khan.... I wonder why...It's never about his predecessor the definitely corrupt Mayor Johnson

Firstly I don’t read the daily mail , 

and to compare Bristol crime with London your living in cloud cookoo land my friend , you are right all towns and cities have there problems , Perhaps you have been lucky over that period I don’t know , me & my wife go to London fairly often for the weekend and have done over the last 5-10 years , we have seen more incidents in the last 18 months ( mainly mugging type incidents and bike thefts but also youths chasing youths through the streets. My point was anyway that people will jump on the football hooligans as if it’s returned and fans are running amok throughout the country . But nothing being said about the new breed of young social rats with there I want I want culture hence stealing of bikes , watches , mugging etc . 
by the way there are many sites & news reels reporting stabbings , mugging etc in London if you wish to look .

As for Khan I have no words .

[redkev]

5 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

That’s weird, I’ve spent 350 weekends here (and the weekdays in between), I’ve never seen a single incident in person.

What’s your name mayor Khan , 

so if you haven’t seen any that must mean there isn’t any . Ok  

[Unan]

2 minutes ago, redkev said:

What’s your name mayor Khan , 

so if you haven’t seen any that must mean there isn’t any . Ok  

No, you said spend a weekend in London to see xyz, which is highly inaccurate.

[Eddie Hitler]

1 minute ago, redkev said:

What’s your name mayor Khan , 

so if you haven’t seen any that must mean there isn’t any . Ok  

 

Having lived in London for a decade it very much depends where you live.  There isn't one London anymore than there is one Bristol.  There are many.

I lived and worked in the City of London.  It even has its own police force and is extremely safe and quiet,  When I lived there it was almost entirely deserted on Saturdays and was entirely deserted on Sundays.  I would have no issue with walking home alone at midnight.

Similary some of the suburbs, Surbiton or Kingston for example, are nice quiet places to live.

I would not however have wandered around after dark in places like Neasden, Stockwell or Stratford either then or now.

@Marcus Aurelius must live in a nice part of London.  They do exist.

[bexhill reds]

Just now, redkev said:

Firstly I don’t read the daily mail , 

and to compare Bristol crime with London your living in cloud cookoo land my friend , you are right all towns and cities have there problems , Perhaps you have been lucky over that period I don’t know , me & my wife go to London fairly often for the weekend and have done over the last 5-10 years , we have seen more incidents in the last 18 months ( mainly mugging type incidents and bike thefts but also youths chasing youths through the streets. My point was anyway that people will jump on the football hooligans as if it’s returned and fans are running amok throughout the country . But nothing being said about the new breed of young social rats with there I want I want culture hence stealing of bikes , watches , mugging etc . 
by the way there are many sites & news reels reporting stabbings , mugging etc in London if you wish to look .

As for Khan I have no words .

Not directly comparing as you can’t due to population size merely just stating that Bristol is no different in some respects. All big cities have their fair share of issues and all proportionate to their size and population make up. You’ve undermined your argument with the lazy reference to Khan, that perhaps whilst unintentionally made, does associate itself to certain groups, and I can’t say that a periodic weekend tripper to London can really judge what Khan does or doesn’t do, unless of course that view comes from some of the sites about “London News” you refer to.

 

[Unan]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Having lived in London for a decade it very much depends where you live.  There isn't one London anymore than there is one Bristol.  There are many.

I lived and worked in the City of London.  It even has its own police force and is extremely safe and quiet,  When I lived there it was almost entirely deserted on Saturdays and was entirely deserted on Sundays.  I would have no issue with walking home alone at midnight.

Similary some of the suburbs, Surbiton or Kingston for example, are nice quiet places to live.

I would not however have wandered around after dark in places like Neasden, Stockwell or Stratford either then or now.

@Marcus Aurelius must live in a nice part of London.  They do exist.

I live in Bow and often travel back, drunk, from Stratford to Langdon Park, without ever feeling worried, or ever seeing a problem. I’ve also lived in High Barnet, Willesden (just off of ‘the’ Church Road). If anything it’s the nice areas where there is trouble at night. I’ve certainly seen more trouble in my time in Bristol. 

[Unan]

2 hours ago, BS30 City said:

Number of police recorded knife or sharp instrument offences in London from 2015/16 to 2021/22

2021/22	11,122
2020/21	10,150
2019/20	15,928
2018/19	14,902
2017/18	14,731
2016/17	12,077
2015/16	9,752

Yes nothing to see here! Its all the far rights fault 

Not that common, but in comparison to other countries its actually not that bad at all.

For eg, there are more stabbing deaths in America per capita than UK (7.5 times more)

Per capita there are 0.08 stabbing deaths per 100k people in UK,

South Africa that number is 16.95.

Brazil 4.56

In Europe, highest is Estonia (if you dont include Russia) at 1.59

Bulgaria 0.67

USA 0.60

Turkey 0.57

Finland 0.55

Poland 0.49

Canada 0.49

Austrailia 0.48

Spain 0.36

France 0.20

Italy 0.18

Ireland 0.16

UK 0.08

So more than twice as likely to die from being stabbed in France/Italy, 3 times more in Spain, 6 times more in Canada, 7.5 times more in USA.

Source

 

[Eddie Hitler]

8 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

I live in Bow and often travel back, drunk, from Stratford to Langdon Park, without ever feeling worried, or ever seeing a problem. I’ve also lived in High Barnet, Willesden (just off of ‘the’ Church Road). If anything it’s the nice areas where there is trouble at night. I’ve certainly seen more trouble in my time in Bristol. 

 

Tbf the only place I've been in recent years, maybe the last five where I haven't got about much, where I thought "this is dog rough, I'm not hanging about here" was surprisingly Shepton Mallett on a Sunday afternoon.

That isn't a joke.  Though maybe I just caught it on an off day.

[Maesknoll Red]

Bit late to this, I’m with those who think it’s a strange position for Blackpool FC and any ‘official’ organisation to be showing such public condolences of this death.  If the guy has been an instigator of violence, then that’s the way the cookie crumbles, live by the sword, die by the sword, but don’t be lauded as a wonderful person.

[pillred]

23 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Granted I wasn't alive back in the 70s but this doesn't sound accurate based on stories I've heard from people who were over the years, or from what I have read in the likes of Hoolifan and the CSF and Soul Crew books. Knives were absolutely carried by firms back then and stabbings or slashing not uncommon. Bricks, concrete, skips being emptied, baseball bats etc all talked about. Most say it was far more wild back then. And that's before we get onto the likes of Heysel.

I don't have figures but just from memory (I'm 66) and have followed city home and away for 50 years I can confidently say yes you may have had seats thrown at you and be pelted with coins and pieces of wood, piss and yes that's you Chelsea and Cardiff, but carrying a knife to a match back in those days would have been a rarity.

Edited March 7, 2023 by pillred

[Street red]

On 06/03/2023 at 12:48, 1960maaan said:

Reported to be out side the Manchester Bar , Saturday night.  Mass brawl with Burnley fans and died this morning from head injuries. 

Very sad whatever the circumstances .

What a friendly bar that is 

[1960maaan]

Just now, Street red said:

What a friendly bar that is 

Ive never known any problems there.

[shepton red]

2 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Tbf the only place I've been in recent years, maybe the last five where I haven't got about much, where I thought "this is dog rough, I'm not hanging about here" was surprisingly Shepton Mallett on a Sunday afternoon.

That isn't a joke.  Though maybe I just caught it on an off day.

[Eddie Hitler]

10 minutes ago, shepton red said:

 

I'm sorry!

Just calling it as I saw it.

[Oh Louie louie]

Through history at one point shepton mallet was the shooting capital, the jail had a wall riddled with bullets, think it was pows that got shot there but not sure 

[Sixtyseconds]

23 hours ago, spudski said:

Think how hypocritical we are as humans, where we deplore violence in general,

 

 

 

We don't.

23 hours ago, spudski said:

Think how hypocritical we are as humans, where we deplore violence in general, but will pay to watch and be entertained by boxing and cage fighting.

 

See that is not a deplore.

23 hours ago, spudski said:

boxing and cage fighting.

Where I have been.

I do not deplore it.

On 07/03/2023 at 11:28, spudski said:

 Where the intention is to knock someone out, injure them. Often the injuries life changing. And we pay to enjoy it, because it's legalised. Loosely..the only difference I can see, compared to hooliganism is it's controlled, legal, insured, rules. If someone dies from their injuries, it's seen as a tragic accident...yet the intention is to do as much harm as possible!

 

I have knocked opponents out.

You win by the means you win.

My intent was not to injure anybody.

My intent was to compete.

To challenge myself.

To keep pushing myself further.

To win a fight with my own fears.

To win.

To improve.

 

[Red-Robbo]

5 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Through history at one point shepton mallet was the shooting capital, the jail had a wall riddled with bullets, think it was pows that got shot there but not sure 

They executed military prisoners - some GIs convicted of rape and murder during WW2 - there. 

[handsofclay]

On 07/03/2023 at 18:48, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Tbf the only place I've been in recent years, maybe the last five where I haven't got about much, where I thought "this is dog rough, I'm not hanging about here" was surprisingly Shepton Mallett on a Sunday afternoon.

That isn't a joke.  Though maybe I just caught it on an off day.

 

On 08/03/2023 at 11:41, Red-Robbo said:

They executed military prisoners - some GIs convicted of rape and murder during WW2 - there. 

I visited Shepton Mallet prison and seen where the military prisoners were executed by firing squad in the prison yard. This isn't a joke what I am about to impart, but the firing squad executions had to be changed to indoor hangings at the prison because the locals complained about the noise.

I can imagine Mrs Smith ordering Mr Smith in their terraced house in Shepton Mallet to knock on the prison door to ask them to keep the bloody noise down.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, handsofclay said:

 

I visited Shepton Mallet prison and seen where the military prisoners were executed by firing squad in the prison yard. This isn't a joke what I am about to impart, but the firing squad executions had to be changed to indoor hangings at the prison because the locals complained about the noise.

I can imagine Mrs Smith ordering Mr Smith in their terraced house in Shepton Mallet to knock on the prison door to ask them to keep the bloody noise down.

 

It is totally surrounded by housing, some only a few yards from the walls, so I suppose they had a point.

My first serious GF came from Shepton and I remember a romantic stroll through the town being slightly cheapened by the coarse suggestions shouted down by prisoners, as she and I passed arm-in-arm past the facility. 

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

It is totally surrounded by housing, some only a few yards from the walls, so I suppose they had a point.

My first serious GF came from Shepton and I remember a romantic stroll through the town being slightly cheapened by the coarse suggestions shouted down by prisoners, as she and I passed arm-in-arm past the facility. 

Aimed at you?

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Aimed at you?

 

Well, aimed at both of us.

In the last years the prison operated, they walled up the windows overlooking the lane that runs past its main wing. 

[NOTBLUE]

On 07/03/2023 at 18:48, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Tbf the only place I've been in recent years, maybe the last five where I haven't got about much, where I thought "this is dog rough, I'm not hanging about here" was surprisingly Shepton Mallett on a Sunday afternoon.

That isn't a joke.  Though maybe I just caught it on an off day.

You caught it on a good day

[Oh Louie louie]

Hey il have a babycham! The icf drank shepton mallets finest export in the movie the firm!

[cheddarwedlocker]

People say you shouldnt go to the football and never return home. Couldnt agree more.

When people go to the football looking for a fight, they dont deserve to represent their team, or even be there watching it.

RIP Tony.

 

[Oh Louie louie]

I did ring the prison about a pow escapee going back a few years, sadly they said they had never heard of Russell osman

[Grey Fox]

On 07/03/2023 at 19:25, pillred said:

I don't have figures but just from memory (I'm 66) and have followed city home and away for 50 years I can confidently say yes you may have had seats thrown at you and be pelted with coins and pieces of wood, piss and yes that's you Chelsea and Cardiff, but carrying a knife to a match back in those days would have been a rarity.

Same age as you, correct in what you say , but having twenty idiots trying to kick the s@@t out of you was always “interesting “

[fisherrich]

4 hours ago, handsofclay said:

 

I visited Shepton Mallet prison and seen where the military prisoners were executed by firing squad in the prison yard. This isn't a joke what I am about to impart, but the firing squad executions had to be changed to indoor hangings at the prison because the locals complained about the noise.

I can imagine Mrs Smith ordering Mr Smith in their terraced house in Shepton Mallet to knock on the prison door to ask them to keep the bloody noise down.

We did the prison tour at Shepton last year. It is a good tour. Claimed to have the highest prison walls in the UK. Well worth a visit with the wife if you have a free afternoon. Enjoyed it.

[Slacker]

53 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

We did the prison tour at Shepton last year. It is a good tour. Claimed to have the highest prison walls in the UK. Well worth a visit with the wife if you have a free afternoon. Enjoyed it.

Is there an option to leave her there?

Asking for myself  

Edited March 9, 2023 by Slacker

[Port Said Red]

So we are agreed that there should be no silence or handclap Saturday then?

[big dosser]

some good points made and i may be going against the grain, but sometimes you must not forget the man has a family and friends that will be devastated this has happened. i would show my respect not for him but for them.

[Mr Roper]

On 06/03/2023 at 13:50, Jerseybean said:

This is most certainly not in the same league as this awful and tragic news, nevertheless, it is a related sickening and shameful reflection on our Club. I sometimes reach out to away fans, via their forums, to help inform the match thread. I got this response a couple of days ago from a Blackpool fan.

‘Hi, at the end of the 2001/2 season City came to Bloomfield Road on a promotion charge; Blackpool scrapping to avoid a relegation battle to the bottom division. City came in large numbers. The 5 -1 score line derailed City badly. Unfortunately, the behaviour of some of the Bristol fans was humiliating to their club. I was with my daughters aged 7 and 5 and we got attacked by about 10 City fans outside the ground (wholly unprovoked or stimulated) - until some older City fans (mainly older couples) stepped in (which I will always be grateful for). My girls were shaking and trembling, seeking protection behind my back. I had a bloody nose and bust lip. For that reason I see most of your support as the lowest life in the football league, having no ethics or integrity. You have a lovely city but Rovers are the only team I can respect and always come to Blackpool in larger 'nosier' numbers. That may be not what you wanted to hear but facts are facts, sorry. My son and his mate will be there on Saturday and I wish you all the best.‘

Something not right about this post ,first of all I thought yes this guy is right about the events ,sickening but did say that other City fans  jumped in to help out .But after that praise he went on to say we are all scum etc and Rovers are the Bristol team he respects . Same horse punching , boob cricket mob he means I presume ?